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Electronics Repair (sci.electronics.repair) Discussion of repairing electronic equipment. Topics include requests for assistance, where to obtain servicing information and parts, techniques for diagnosis and repair, and annecdotes about success, failures and problems. |
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#1
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Generic problem with Marshall valve amp mains transformers?
In conjunction with British weather/ garage storage.
Well I can't believe I'm unlucky enough to have 2 such repairs. Earlier one Marshall 1962, year 2003 bluish-white flash from the HT area of the mains Tx secondaries. Small arc over just 1mm or so , moving the wires apart and cleaning and telling the owner to store the amp properly, cured that (or at least did not bounce back). This time Marshall JTM Tremolo 50W , 1998. The giveaway is that the HT fuse failed at switch off to standby, mains sw on. Replacing fuse and running up on a variac amp would work fine up to 95 percent mains and switching back to standby but 100 percent and switch to standby and Tx saturation noise and dramatic long bluish-white arc from near an HT(ac) terminal. As fuse is in the ac line and the o/c voltage goes up on removing the load on the valve rectifier at sw off. Between the purple "o" s on this pic, http://www.diverse.4mg.com/Marshall_jtm_tx.jpg vertical black smudge presumably a carbon track. The wire removed from the red tag by me, 2 wires to the black ground tag. The black mark and the 2 bare copper patches lie along the edge of the nylon , the o-o line , not distinguishable in the pic. As the wire is .27mm diameter you can see the "carbon arc" was 2.5mm or so long and colour white, not green or blue. No obvious organic mold marks elsewhere on the amp or even abnormal rusting of the steel bits. Any opinions on the derivation of this problem. I assume marginal invisible mold growth that carbonise over amp use, and chafing? and 500V or so pk-pk then carbonising of the nylon or Tx lacquer. Hopefully recoverable by cutting away/cleaning nylon and silicone sleeving over the wire and exrending to rejoin the tag, to move it away from the edge. Would there be some Marshall treatment/coating that may promote the initiation of this problem? yes I know its due more to owners than manufacturer |
#2
Posted to sci.electronics.repair
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Generic problem with Marshall valve amp mains transformers?
"N_Cook" wrote in message ... In conjunction with British weather/ garage storage. Well I can't believe I'm unlucky enough to have 2 such repairs. Earlier one Marshall 1962, year 2003 bluish-white flash from the HT area of the mains Tx secondaries. Small arc over just 1mm or so , moving the wires apart and cleaning and telling the owner to store the amp properly, cured that (or at least did not bounce back). This time Marshall JTM Tremolo 50W , 1998. The giveaway is that the HT fuse failed at switch off to standby, mains sw on. Replacing fuse and running up on a variac amp would work fine up to 95 percent mains and switching back to standby but 100 percent and switch to standby and Tx saturation noise and dramatic long bluish-white arc from near an HT(ac) terminal. As fuse is in the ac line and the o/c voltage goes up on removing the load on the valve rectifier at sw off. Between the purple "o" s on this pic, http://www.diverse.4mg.com/Marshall_jtm_tx.jpg vertical black smudge presumably a carbon track. The wire removed from the red tag by me, 2 wires to the black ground tag. The black mark and the 2 bare copper patches lie along the edge of the nylon , the o-o line , not distinguishable in the pic. As the wire is .27mm diameter you can see the "carbon arc" was 2.5mm or so long and colour white, not green or blue. No obvious organic mold marks elsewhere on the amp or even abnormal rusting of the steel bits. Any opinions on the derivation of this problem. I assume marginal invisible mold growth that carbonise over amp use, and chafing? and 500V or so pk-pk then carbonising of the nylon or Tx lacquer. Hopefully recoverable by cutting away/cleaning nylon and silicone sleeving over the wire and exrending to rejoin the tag, to move it away from the edge. Would there be some Marshall treatment/coating that may promote the initiation of this problem? yes I know its due more to owners than manufacturer Have you considered the problem may be due to Fauna, not Flora? Gareth. |
#3
Posted to sci.electronics.repair
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Generic problem with Marshall valve amp mains transformers?
Gareth Magennis wrote in message
... "N_Cook" wrote in message ... In conjunction with British weather/ garage storage. Well I can't believe I'm unlucky enough to have 2 such repairs. Earlier one Marshall 1962, year 2003 bluish-white flash from the HT area of the mains Tx secondaries. Small arc over just 1mm or so , moving the wires apart and cleaning and telling the owner to store the amp properly, cured that (or at least did not bounce back). This time Marshall JTM Tremolo 50W , 1998. The giveaway is that the HT fuse failed at switch off to standby, mains sw on. Replacing fuse and running up on a variac amp would work fine up to 95 percent mains and switching back to standby but 100 percent and switch to standby and Tx saturation noise and dramatic long bluish-white arc from near an HT(ac) terminal. As fuse is in the ac line and the o/c voltage goes up on removing the load on the valve rectifier at sw off. Between the purple "o" s on this pic, http://www.diverse.4mg.com/Marshall_jtm_tx.jpg vertical black smudge presumably a carbon track. The wire removed from the red tag by me, 2 wires to the black ground tag. The black mark and the 2 bare copper patches lie along the edge of the nylon , the o-o line , not distinguishable in the pic. As the wire is .27mm diameter you can see the "carbon arc" was 2.5mm or so long and colour white, not green or blue. No obvious organic mold marks elsewhere on the amp or even abnormal rusting of the steel bits. Any opinions on the derivation of this problem. I assume marginal invisible mold growth that carbonise over amp use, and chafing? and 500V or so pk-pk then carbonising of the nylon or Tx lacquer. Hopefully recoverable by cutting away/cleaning nylon and silicone sleeving over the wire and exrending to rejoin the tag, to move it away from the edge. Would there be some Marshall treatment/coating that may promote the initiation of this problem? yes I know its due more to owners than manufacturer Have you considered the problem may be due to Fauna, not Flora? Gareth. Like the white spotting on the TV in the other thread below? Whatever it is, "chooses " this one edge posistion on the outside of the Tx, or 2 out of 2 occassions , I don;t like coincidences. Condensation/damp I would have thought would make its presence felt well inside the windings. There must be closer gaps inside to ground than this 2.5mm . I know high voltages like to discharge from/to sharp points , is that what is coming into play. Perhaps the nylon moulding should have rounded edges, a/ to lessen scuffing of the wire covering, b/ lessen HV discharge possibility. 2.5mm is an enormous distance to jump in normal circumstances for 500/550V |
#4
Posted to sci.electronics.repair
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Generic problem with Marshall valve amp mains transformers?
Basically what facilitates corona discharge, relevant to this particular
position |
#5
Posted to sci.electronics.repair
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Generic problem with Marshall valve amp mains transformers?
"N_Cook" wrote in message ... Gareth Magennis wrote in message ... "N_Cook" wrote in message ... In conjunction with British weather/ garage storage. Well I can't believe I'm unlucky enough to have 2 such repairs. Earlier one Marshall 1962, year 2003 bluish-white flash from the HT area of the mains Tx secondaries. Small arc over just 1mm or so , moving the wires apart and cleaning and telling the owner to store the amp properly, cured that (or at least did not bounce back). This time Marshall JTM Tremolo 50W , 1998. The giveaway is that the HT fuse failed at switch off to standby, mains sw on. Replacing fuse and running up on a variac amp would work fine up to 95 percent mains and switching back to standby but 100 percent and switch to standby and Tx saturation noise and dramatic long bluish-white arc from near an HT(ac) terminal. As fuse is in the ac line and the o/c voltage goes up on removing the load on the valve rectifier at sw off. Between the purple "o" s on this pic, http://www.diverse.4mg.com/Marshall_jtm_tx.jpg vertical black smudge presumably a carbon track. The wire removed from the red tag by me, 2 wires to the black ground tag. The black mark and the 2 bare copper patches lie along the edge of the nylon , the o-o line , not distinguishable in the pic. As the wire is .27mm diameter you can see the "carbon arc" was 2.5mm or so long and colour white, not green or blue. No obvious organic mold marks elsewhere on the amp or even abnormal rusting of the steel bits. Any opinions on the derivation of this problem. I assume marginal invisible mold growth that carbonise over amp use, and chafing? and 500V or so pk-pk then carbonising of the nylon or Tx lacquer. Hopefully recoverable by cutting away/cleaning nylon and silicone sleeving over the wire and exrending to rejoin the tag, to move it away from the edge. Would there be some Marshall treatment/coating that may promote the initiation of this problem? yes I know its due more to owners than manufacturer Have you considered the problem may be due to Fauna, not Flora? Gareth. Like the white spotting on the TV in the other thread below? Whatever it is, "chooses " this one edge posistion on the outside of the Tx, or 2 out of 2 occassions , I don;t like coincidences. Condensation/damp I would have thought would make its presence felt well inside the windings. There must be closer gaps inside to ground than this 2.5mm . I know high voltages like to discharge from/to sharp points , is that what is coming into play. Perhaps the nylon moulding should have rounded edges, a/ to lessen scuffing of the wire covering, b/ lessen HV discharge possibility. 2.5mm is an enormous distance to jump in normal circumstances for 500/550V A spider or other bug might help things along somewhat though. Gareth. |
#6
Posted to sci.electronics.repair
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Generic problem with Marshall valve amp mains transformers?
Gareth Magennis wrote in message
... "N_Cook" wrote in message ... Gareth Magennis wrote in message ... "N_Cook" wrote in message ... In conjunction with British weather/ garage storage. A spider or other bug might help things along somewhat though. Gareth. I think the edge is the key to it, it was that edge previously but the wiring spacing was nearer 1mm than 2.5mm. As in that pic there is only 1mm or so spacing between those 2 wires with the pd across, farther back to the core, but its on the flat there. I somehow don't think mold would go for edges, and similar I don;t see spider **** would concentrate at edges. I once came across a failed scope where the smps would not power up. The isolation of the opto-coupler had failed because mold had grown on the glass sliver between each side and then became conductive, scope stored in a shed. |
#7
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Generic problem with Marshall valve amp mains transformers?
Sleeved and moved/extended the wire away from the nylon and its now back
working without flashover/ blown fuses |
#8
Posted to sci.electronics.repair
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Generic problem with Marshall valve amp mains transformers?
"N_Cook" wrote in message ... Sleeved and moved/extended the wire away from the nylon and its now back working without flashover/ blown fuses I'd cover your work in Silicon Sealant, in case those pesky critters come back ...... Gareth. |
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