I think that I know the answer to this one but at the risk of looking
like a dummy I'll ask anyway. Some time ago a customer left a flat
screen with me for repair. The short end of it is that I fixed it,
they never picked it up, so now it's in our bedroom. I can receive the
three major networks off my antenna and a few other things I can take
or leave and we're satisfied with that. Naturally they appear in HD,
(which I can also do without).

The problem is that we tape all our shows on VCR's to watch later when
both my wife and I have time. Most sets, and this one is no exception
have no provision for a composite, S, or any other type of "video
out".

Now I reaIize that I can place a converter ahead of the TV, down
convert to NTSC, Use either channel three RF or AV out, lose my HD and
accomplish what I'm trying to do, but this is not only an extra added
expense but a pain in the ass as well.

Does anyone know if first of all composite video as we've known it for
the past 75 or so years even exists in a modern flat screen TV, and if
so is it possible to get it "out of the set? I realize that I'd have
to employ some type of isolation between the TV and the outside world,
and I'm sure that I could come up with a way to do that, but I'm just
asking if this could be possible. Thanks, Lenny

On Wed, 10 Oct 2012 06:21:25 -0700 (PDT), klem kedidelhopper
wrote:

I think that I know the answer to this one but at the risk of looking
like a dummy I'll ask anyway. Some time ago a customer left a flat
screen with me for repair. The short end of it is that I fixed it,
they never picked it up, so now it's in our bedroom. I can receive the
three major networks off my antenna and a few other things I can take
or leave and we're satisfied with that. Naturally they appear in HD,
(which I can also do without).

The problem is that we tape all our shows on VCR's to watch later when
both my wife and I have time. Most sets, and this one is no exception
have no provision for a composite, S, or any other type of "video
out".

Now I reaIize that I can place a converter ahead of the TV, down
convert to NTSC, Use either channel three RF or AV out, lose my HD and
accomplish what I'm trying to do, but this is not only an extra added
expense but a pain in the ass as well.

Does anyone know if first of all composite video as we've known it for
the past 75 or so years even exists in a modern flat screen TV, and if
so is it possible to get it "out of the set? I realize that I'd have
to employ some type of isolation between the TV and the outside world,
and I'm sure that I could come up with a way to do that, but I'm just
asking if this could be possible. Thanks, Lenny
I have never seen a digital TV that has a composite video OUTPUT. It
makes no sense - you lose signal quality. Many (but not all) have
composite inputs; that signal is digitized and processed just as the
OTA signal is. I have seen some that have the capability of recording
the OTA (mpeg4 compressed) digital signal to a hard drive, but that's
rare. For specific information, look for a service manual for your
set at www.elektrotanya.com and study it.

What you should be hoping for is a customer who asks you to look at a
DVR with digital tuner, then neglects to pick it up. It's 2012, time
to accept the digital world.

PlainBill

On Wednesday, October 10, 2012 6:21:26 AM UTC-7, klem kedidelhopper wrote:

The problem is that we tape all our shows on VCR's to watch later when

both my wife and I have time. Most sets, and this one is no exception

have no provision for a composite, S, or any other type of "video

out".

There was a generation of HDTV that was a separate box (like a cable box)
that went between the RF input and the monitor. Those, frequently had
a video/composite output to support VCR and other legacy components.

Samsung SIR-TS160 and SIR-TS360 were two such (and they may be available
used).

The problem with using any television, is that it has to be left ON (with the
screen backlight illuminated, sound blaring) in support of a timed VCR.
The separate-box does this quietly and without fuss, but even if you can
find a modern TV with composite outputs, it won't be automatically ON
and tuned to your channel at record time unless you prearrange that.

The modern way, of course, is to get something like SiliconDust's dual tuner
(HD Homerun?) and let your PC record any and all of the shows you want.

"klem kedidelhopper" wrote in message
...
I think that I know the answer to this one but at the risk of looking
like a dummy I'll ask anyway. Some time ago a customer left a flat
screen with me for repair. The short end of it is that I fixed it,
they never picked it up, so now it's in our bedroom. I can receive the
three major networks off my antenna and a few other things I can take
or leave and we're satisfied with that. Naturally they appear in HD,
(which I can also do without).

The problem is that we tape all our shows on VCR's to watch later when
both my wife and I have time. Most sets, and this one is no exception
have no provision for a composite, S, or any other type of "video
out".

Now I reaIize that I can place a converter ahead of the TV, down
convert to NTSC, Use either channel three RF or AV out, lose my HD and
accomplish what I'm trying to do, but this is not only an extra added
expense but a pain in the ass as well.

Does anyone know if first of all composite video as we've known it for
the past 75 or so years even exists in a modern flat screen TV, and if
so is it possible to get it "out of the set? I realize that I'd have
to employ some type of isolation between the TV and the outside world,
and I'm sure that I could come up with a way to do that, but I'm just
asking if this could be possible. Thanks, Lenny


The simple answer Lenny, is no. There is no need for composite video to
exist anywhere in the signal chain from off-air RF to the panel drive
circuitry in any kind of modern flatscreen ...

Arfa

"klem kedidelhopper mental defective "


Does anyone know if first of all composite video as we've known it for
the past 75 or so years even exists in a modern flat screen TV,


** It has hardly ever existed in any TV set.

But a few LCD sets have it:

http://dicksmith.com.au/product/GE68...hd-dled-lcd-tv.... Phil

On Oct 10, 10:08*pm, "Phil Allison" wrote:
"klem kedidelhopper mental defective "

Does anyone know if first of all composite video as we've known it for
the past 75 or so years even exists in a modern flat screen TV,

** It has hardly ever existed in any TV set.

*But a few LCD sets have it:

*http://dicksmith.com.au/product/GE68...ot-full-hd-dle........ * Phil

That is an interesting feature on that set Phil. I didn't notice a
mention of high impedance line audio out though. It must have it just
didn't see it. Problem is though I'm in the US and the set is in
Australia. Would probably cost a small fortune to get it here. I never
knew that Dick Smith was now into consumer electronics. I bought my
Dick Smith ESR meter kit from a US supplier several years ago and I'
ve always been very satisfied with it. I used to talk with Bob Parker
on this group years ago but I haven't seen him on for some time now.
He designed that meter and was always very helpful. We talked
personally many times and he was instrumental in my decision to buy
the kit.
Lenny

"klem kedidelhopper mental defective "

Does anyone know if first of all composite video as we've known it for
the past 75 or so years even exists in a modern flat screen TV,

** It has hardly ever existed in any TV set.

But a few LCD sets have it:

http://dicksmith.com.au/product/GE68...ot-full-hd-dle

........ Phil

That is an interesting feature on that set Phil. I didn't notice a
mention of high impedance line audio out though. It must have it just
didn't see it.

** It lacks a coffee maker and mobile phone charger too.


Problem is though I'm in the US and the set is in Australia.


** Wot a ****in' idiot.


.... Phil

klem kedidelhopper wrote:
On Oct 10, 10:08?pm, "Phil Allison" wrote:
"klem kedidelhopper mental defective "

Does anyone know if first of all composite video as we've known it for
the past 75 or so years even exists in a modern flat screen TV,

** It has hardly ever existed in any TV set.

?But a few LCD sets have it:

?http://dicksmith.com.au/product/GE68...ot-full-hd-dle....... ? Phil

That is an interesting feature on that set Phil. I didn't notice a

It might just be a composite pass-through input -like with conference room
type video projectors, there's 900 inputs and outputs, but you can't use
the thing as a converter between signals.

mention of high impedance line audio out though. It must have it just
didn't see it. Problem is though I'm in the US and the set is in
Australia. Would probably cost a small fortune to get it here. I never
knew that Dick Smith was now into consumer electronics. I bought my
Dick Smith ESR meter kit from a US supplier several years ago and I'
ve always been very satisfied with it. I used to talk with Bob Parker
on this group years ago but I haven't seen him on for some time now.
He designed that meter and was always very helpful. We talked
personally many times and he was instrumental in my decision to buy
the kit.
Lenny

"klem kedidelhopper" wrote in message
...
On Oct 10, 10:08 pm, "Phil Allison" wrote:
"klem kedidelhopper mental defective "

Does anyone know if first of all composite video as we've known it for
the past 75 or so years even exists in a modern flat screen TV,

** It has hardly ever existed in any TV set.

But a few LCD sets have it:


http://dicksmith.com.au/product/GE68...ot-full-hd-dle.......
Phil

That is an interesting feature on that set Phil. I didn't notice a
mention of high impedance line audio out though. It must have it just
didn't see it. Problem is though I'm in the US and the set is in
Australia. Would probably cost a small fortune to get it here. I never
knew that Dick Smith was now into consumer electronics. I bought my
Dick Smith ESR meter kit from a US supplier several years ago and I'
ve always been very satisfied with it. I used to talk with Bob Parker
on this group years ago but I haven't seen him on for some time now.
He designed that meter and was always very helpful. We talked
personally many times and he was instrumental in my decision to buy
the kit.
Lenny


Bob is alive and well Lenny. I still talk to him regularly

Arfa

Actually you might be able to get a DVI or VGA ouput somewhere and use a little convertor box. I have a couple so I can send the PC's output to an NTSC television. They were about fifty bucks apiece but I'd bet they're cheaper now.

I'm pretty sure it is cheap to convert from DVI to VGA, but I don't know about the other way around, which I might (happen to) need.

In any event, a TV is not going to downconvert for you, that what my little boxes are for.

Actually I remember installing an ATI AIW 7500 years ago for a buddy and I found that for some reason the COMB filter wouldn't work right using the composite output, we had to turn the notch filter on. Should have used Svid but it was a fairly long run.

Later with the EZTV box going into my XBR, the COMB filter worked and the interlace was perfect, but what was strange is with the analog COMB filter you know how you see the crawling dots on the first line of a large color block ? They didn't crawl.

I am still at a loss as to how the hell they got the timing right enough but made it so the dots were stationary. Eother way the quality was as expected, 480i.

I have the opposite problem myself, I got a ****load of old beta tapes I want to turn into MPEGs and DVDs. I don't know if my system is good enough to use one of those USB convertors, well at least this one. I have a never syatem in the basement feeding the BIG stereo and a projo, but that can't take as many harddrives as this one. Not sure what to do. I want it ALL on harddrives, and more than one of them. I might only get one chance to rip them..

From what I gather for your problem though is that HDMI can be converted to DVI, and DVI can be converted to VGA. One of those little boxes will do it from there. The only problem is that you are going to need an analog audio connection because normally HDMI includes it and doesn't require separate cables.

I've heard of cases though, where if the PC was booted with the TV off or something it would not have audio, probably something to do with a handshake.. The solution in that case because the guy didn't want to be forced into using the TV all the time was to just use analog audio. I really don't know what happens with the audio if you use a convertor from HDMI to DVI, maybe the convertor has audio jacks.

Google should find you something on that right quick.

J

On Wed, 10 Oct 2012 06:21:25 -0700 (PDT), klem kedidelhopper
wrote:
(...)
is it possible to get it "out of the set? I realize that I'd have
to employ some type of isolation between the TV and the outside world,
and I'm sure that I could come up with a way to do that, but I'm just
asking if this could be possible. Thanks, Lenny

Why bother? Just find one of the cheap (junk) ATSC to NTSC converter
boxes that the government was subsidizing. They all have composite
video outputs. Put an RF splitter on the antenna connector. One port
goes to this box, the other to your TV. Plug the VCR into converter
box composite output. Now, you have an instant dual front end, single
channel DVR, errr... VCR. If the splitter drops the signal
excessively, add an RF broadband TV amplifier.

The only problem is that many of the used converter boxes I'm finding
at garage sales and thrift shops, seem to have been rather hastily
designed and sloppily built. I really don't know if any manufacturer
or brand name ever made a quality product. If you find something, it
might help to check the reviews before spending any money. Plenty to
choose from on eBay under "digital TV converter box".


--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Friday, October 12, 2012 8:54:27 AM UTC-7, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Wed, 10 Oct 2012 06:21:25 -0700 (PDT), klem kedidelhopper

[about getting composite video to a VCR, from a TV]

Why bother? Just find one of the cheap (junk) ATSC to NTSC converter
boxes that the government was subsidizing.

And, remember to hunt the menus for the automatic-shutoff
feature and disable it; these gizmos often save energy
by shutting themselves down if remote control signals aren't
sent every once in a while.

Your VCR won't be able to channel-select, in general, nor power-up
the converter at record time. Computer-based solutions are better.

On Wed, 10 Oct 2012 06:21:25 -0700 (PDT), klem kedidelhopper
put finger to keyboard and composed:

The problem is that we tape all our shows on VCR's to watch later when
both my wife and I have time. Most sets, and this one is no exception
have no provision for a composite, S, or any other type of "video
out".

It doesn't answer your question but ...

I use a cheap STB (AU$40) with a USB socket and HDMI output. I can
record any program in HD to a USB flash drive. The file format is
playable on a PC using VLC video player. No need for VCRs anymore. In
fact I'm told that you can even burn the recordings in DVD format so
that they can be played on a regular DVD player.

- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.

On Oct 12, 4:48*pm, Franc Zabkar wrote:
On Wed, 10 Oct 2012 06:21:25 -0700 (PDT), klem kedidelhopper
put finger to keyboard and composed:

The problem is that we tape all our shows on VCR's to watch later when
both my wife and I have time. Most sets, and this one is no exception
have no provision for a composite, S, or any other type of "video
out".

It doesn't answer your question but ...

I use a cheap STB (AU$40) with a USB socket and HDMI output. I can
record any program in HD to a USB flash drive. The file format is
playable on a PC using VLC video player. No need for VCRs anymore. In
fact I'm told that you can even burn the recordings in DVD format so
that they can be played on a regular DVD player.

- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.

I realize that I can do things like the ones mentioned with convertor
boxes. I was just hoping that there was a way to do it without the use
of an additional box. but now that doesn't seem like a possibility,
and in fact as someone else previously mentioned even if I could
accomplish this it would require having the TV on while making the
recording. This is not practical at all, especially considering the
clock ticking on these flat panels all the while they're on. Lenny

On Fri, 12 Oct 2012 16:37:11 -0700 (PDT), klem kedidelhopper
put finger to keyboard and composed:

On Oct 12, 4:48*pm, Franc Zabkar wrote:
On Wed, 10 Oct 2012 06:21:25 -0700 (PDT), klem kedidelhopper
put finger to keyboard and composed:

The problem is that we tape all our shows on VCR's to watch later when
both my wife and I have time. Most sets, and this one is no exception
have no provision for a composite, S, or any other type of "video
out".

It doesn't answer your question but ...

I use a cheap STB (AU$40) with a USB socket and HDMI output. I can
record any program in HD to a USB flash drive. The file format is
playable on a PC using VLC video player. No need for VCRs anymore. In
fact I'm told that you can even burn the recordings in DVD format so
that they can be played on a regular DVD player.

- Franc Zabkar

I realize that I can do things like the ones mentioned with convertor
boxes. I was just hoping that there was a way to do it without the use
of an additional box. but now that doesn't seem like a possibility,
and in fact as someone else previously mentioned even if I could
accomplish this it would require having the TV on while making the
recording. This is not practical at all, especially considering the
clock ticking on these flat panels all the while they're on. Lenny

The STB can record in standalone mode. It has its own tuner. You would
just need the TV to set it up.

- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.

" I use a cheap STB (AU$40) with a USB socket and HDMI output. I can
record any program in HD to a USB flash drive. The file format is
playable on a PC using VLC video player. No need for VCRs anymore. In
fact I'm told that you can even burn the recordings in DVD format so
that they can be played on a regular DVD player. "

STB = Set Top Box ? (just making sure)

If you're talking one of those USB video convertora we better ask Lenny if he has a computer that doesn't say "ENIAC" on it LOL. IIRC he was in here a while back looking to fix something on a 386 or something for some old software, or something like that.

I'm running a PC that's OK (AMD , 2 Ghz FSB, 1.5 GB RAM) and I don't trust it to run one of those things without dropped frames etc. When they say minimum system requirements, remember they STILL want to sell their product. Plenty of times I've bought things that my system just barely qualified for and it ran like ****. The manufacturer's support (if any) usually would say that I need a better PC.

Anyway even if I did decide to use the PC as a recorder, I would need a DVI output to watch the recordings on TV anyway, and that's a feature that's still not quite universal on new motherboards. Many do have it now, but go back just a few years and they were not so common. That would mean another vidcard.

Then, capturing from a convertor box in 480i gives you 480i quality. Of course a VCR makes that even worse. Maybe a standalone DVDR would be better, some of them might up and downconvert. More expensive ones - of course.

Anyway, if two event timer record is desired, you would need either to be able to select video inputs in the timer menu or else it has to have a tuner.. With a tuner concievably you could use two convertors and have one set to channel three and the other to four. Just leave them both on.

Why don't standalone DVDRs have something like a cable mouse, like on old Sony 920 ? (maybe some do ?)

J

On Oct 13, 9:57*am, wrote:
" I use a cheap STB (AU$40) with a USB socket and HDMI output. I can

record any program in HD to a USB flash drive. The file format is
playable on a PC using VLC video player. No need for VCRs anymore. In
fact I'm told that you can even burn the recordings in DVD format so
that they can be played on a regular DVD player. "

STB = Set Top Box ? (just making sure)

If you're talking one of those USB video convertora we better ask Lenny if he has a computer that doesn't say "ENIAC" on it LOL. IIRC he was in here a while back looking to fix something on a 386 or something for some old software, or something like that.

I'm running a PC that's OK (AMD , 2 Ghz FSB, 1.5 GB RAM) and I don't trust it to run one of those things without dropped frames etc. When they say minimum system requirements, remember they STILL want to sell their product. Plenty of times I've bought things that my system just barely qualified for and it ran like ****. The manufacturer's support (if any) usually would say that I need a better PC.

Anyway even if I did decide to use the PC as a recorder, I would need a DVI output to watch the recordings on TV anyway, and that's a feature that's still not quite universal on new motherboards. Many do have it now, but go back just a few years and they were not so common. That would mean another vidcard.

Then, capturing from a convertor box in 480i gives you 480i quality. Of course a VCR makes that even worse. Maybe a standalone DVDR would be better, some of them might up and downconvert. More expensive ones - of course.

Anyway, if two event timer record is desired, you would need either to be able to select video inputs in the timer menu or else it has to have a tuner. With a tuner concievably you could use two convertors and have one set to channel three and the other to four. Just leave them both on.

Why don't standalone DVDRs have something like a cable mouse, like on old Sony 920 ? (maybe some do ?)

You remember my 386 Jurb? The good old days. But I've advanced quite a bit since then. These days I run a P233 with 98 and 6.2 in that position. BTW what was Eniac? I remember Univac. I remember seeing the plug in modules with the dual triodes in the surplus shops on Radio Row in NYC when I was a kid. Don't worry though service shouldn't be a problem. I've got loads of 12AU7's around here. Yes admittedly I am a dinosaur...Lenny

On Sat, 13 Oct 2012 06:57:51 -0700 (PDT), put
finger to keyboard and composed:

" I use a cheap STB (AU$40) with a USB socket and HDMI output. I can
record any program in HD to a USB flash drive. The file format is
playable on a PC using VLC video player. No need for VCRs anymore. In
fact I'm told that you can even burn the recordings in DVD format so
that they can be played on a regular DVD player. "

STB = Set Top Box ? (just making sure)

Yes.

If you're talking one of those USB video convertor ..

No.

Here is what I'm talking about:
http://www.soniq.com.au/index.php/Se...ypage.tpl.html

It's virtually a drop-in replacement for your VCR except that, instead
of a VHS cassette, it records to a USB stick. You can then play it
back through the TV, or you can take the flash drive to a PC and
transfer the file(s) to your HDD.

In fact I've just played back a recording of a recent EUFA cup soccer
match on an 800MHz AMD Duron running Win98SE using VLC video player.

http://www.videolan.org/vlc/

You'll need a USB 2.0 port, though, as USB 1.1 is quite slow. At least
I think it's the port that is the bottleneck (I don't have room on my
HDD to download the file).

AISI, why would you bother with an analogue recording if you can do it
digitally for $40, and then make perfect copies every time, as well as
transferring them to a playable optical disc?

BTW, my Internet machine is an old AMD 450MHz socket 7 box running
Win98SE. My brother reckons it's made of wood. :-)

- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.

I'm not sure the 12AU7 was invented by the time of the ENIAC.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ENIAC

It probably used loktal tubes like 7V7s or something, untless it was even before that.

Tell you what, I wish I had maybe a 386 just for the hell of it. Even though almost all my old stuff still runs there is this one game called Johnny Vegas Poker that will not run on anything newer. It comes up with a divide by zero error. I'm not sure now but I think it would run on a 486SX but not a DX, something like that. I used it during my expensive gambling education.. Yes I went out and played real poker (that's what was expensive of course) but this game had a help section that was pretty good. It would give you the odds and recommend bet or fold. It told you the odds versus the pot odds. If your odds of winning the hand are better than the bet/pot amount ratio, you bet. You can win poker fairly consistently if you play it right, until you run into others who can play it right, then your chances are equal. If you can't play it right then they will take your goodies and send you home.

Anyhoo, this $40 gizmo looks pretty good. In fact I plan on getting one. My main fetish when it comes to this was not to have DVDs, but to have PC files. The box itself does it, and if I want to put something up on youtube I just stick the stick in the PC apparently. Once I get one and get busy I will probably be THE preeminent star of youtube. The reason ? I GOT BETA ! LOL

I won't even play the beta tapes right now, they are kinda old and I might only get one chance. Plus I have a Sony SL-HFR60 and I don't trust the reel motor very much as it was a high failure rate part. Actually I wish I had a beta rewinder. I think eBay's search engine would return "HAHAHAHAHAHAHA" if I looked for one there.

Us dinosaurs have to stick together.

My boss is from Austria and of course went to school there for electronics. He had to design a radio or something "showing all connections and component values" as an exam. He had forgotten to include the filament supply and the instructor drew a picture of a candle on it as a hint. When he told me this I responded "Hey, you were ready for sold state". Can't help it if the world can't catch up to us dinosaurs.

J

On Mon, 15 Oct 2012 09:13:32 -0700 (PDT), put
finger to keyboard and composed:

Anyhoo, this $40 gizmo looks pretty good. In fact I plan on getting one. My main fetish when it comes to this was not to have DVDs, but to have PC files. The box itself does it, and if I want to put something up on youtube I just stick the stick in the PC apparently. Once I get one and get busy I will probably be THE preeminent star of youtube. The reason ? I GOT BETA ! LOL

The Soniq STB is designed for the Australian market. I looked around
for something to suit the North American market, but I couldn't find
anything other than a TV card for a PC. Maybe you guys call them by
some other name.

Here is a similar thread at aus.electronics:
http://groups.google.com/group/aus.e...55c20c14590911

- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.

Maybe we just cannot get them here. I have run across this before and it burns me up. ****ing supposedly NUMBER ONE NUMBER ONE and we can't keep our people healthy despite spending outrageous amounts, or even safe, or travel just anywhere......

The Amwerican illusion has been gone for me for a long time, it's a ****ing joke and you know what ? I bet the ****ing MPAA is stopping these things from being sold here and they got their fingers in other countries too because media bullswhit movies are one of ther US' chief exports. (these are the same folk who lobbied and sued to get betamaxes outlawed, what, you think they went to another planet or something ?) Maybe they can't cow all the governments in the world and keep you all from having the good ****, but they can certainly bribe the companies to not make an NTSC version. And even if there is an NTSC version they could block it's import. They certainly don't have to worry about us building our own.

I keep finding out more and more **** like this, I want to move out. Russia might be better.

That's enough, any more and I risk getting political and you do not want that. ****ing stupid ass people here think we got it better than anywhere in the world.

Amazing. Simply ****ing amazing.

J

Lenny I started recording HDTV in a PC 8 years ago. It was a very modest AMD Sempron on a cheap ECS mobo. Try it and you'll never go back to a VCR. Heck man, you repair that junk so you know just how crappy a VCR really is. The PC I'm on right now is recording as I type. It can also play out multiple HD streams while in record and never drops a frame. I have 2 more nearly identical machines that get used as plain jane PCs but are often in record. No heads to wear out, no dropouts no record time limits. It's way easier to implement than you think.

G²

On Mon, 15 Oct 2012 19:19:56 -0700 (PDT), put
finger to keyboard and composed:

Maybe we just cannot get them here.

I understand your frustration.

Is it possible that a more enlightened country that uses the same DTV
standard allows these things to be imported? If so, would it be
possible to obtain one that way?

- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.

On Mon, 15 Oct 2012 09:13:32 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

I'm not sure the 12AU7 was invented by the time of the ENIAC.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ENIAC

It probably used loktal tubes like 7V7s or something, untless it was even before that.

Tell you what, I wish I had maybe a 386 just for the hell of it. Even though almost all my old stuff still runs there is this one game called Johnny Vegas Poker that will not run on anything newer. It comes up with a divide by zero error. I'm not sure now but I think it would run on a 486SX but not a DX, something like that. I used it during my expensive gambling education. Yes I went out and played real poker (that's what was expensive of course) but this game had a help section that was pretty good. It would give you the odds and recommend bet or fold. It told you the odds versus the pot odds. If your odds of winning the hand are better than the bet/pot amount ratio, you bet. You can win poker fairly consistently if you play it right, until you run into others who can play it right, then your chances are equal. If you can't play it right then they will take your goodies and send you home.

Anyhoo, this $40 gizmo looks pretty good. In fact I plan on getting one. My main fetish when it comes to this was not to have DVDs, but to have PC files. The box itself does it, and if I want to put something up on youtube I just stick the stick in the PC apparently. Once I get one and get busy I will probably be THE preeminent star of youtube. The reason ? I GOT BETA ! LOL

I won't even play the beta tapes right now, they are kinda old and I might only get one chance. Plus I have a Sony SL-HFR60 and I don't trust the reel motor very much as it was a high failure rate part. Actually I wish I had a beta rewinder. I think eBay's search engine would return "HAHAHAHAHAHAHA" if I looked for one there.

Us dinosaurs have to stick together.

My boss is from Austria and of course went to school there for electronics. He had to design a radio or something "showing all connections and component values" as an exam. He had forgotten to include the filament supply and the instructor drew a picture of a candle on it as a hint. When he told me this I responded "Hey, you were ready for sold state". Can't help it if the world can't catch up to us dinosaurs.

J


I hope you have better luck than I did when I tried digitising my
Sony Beta tape library 5 years ago. Everyone of them had lost
coercitivity and all that was left was snow. They were kept in a cool
dark low humidity environment. The one Memorex tape I bought (we were
told they were crap back in the day) played perfectly. Unfortunately,
the 200 plus Sony tapes were full of irreplaceable videos. Chuck

On Oct 16, 3:41*pm, chuck wrote:
On Mon, 15 Oct 2012 09:13:32 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
I'm not sure the 12AU7 was invented by the time of the ENIAC.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ENIAC

It probably used loktal tubes like 7V7s or something, untless it was even before that.

Tell you what, I wish I had maybe a 386 just for the hell of it. Even though almost all my old stuff still runs there is this one game called Johnny Vegas Poker that will not run on anything newer. It comes up with a divide by zero error. I'm not sure now but I think it would run on a 486SX but not a DX, something like that. I used it during my expensive gambling education. Yes I went out and played real poker (that's what was expensive of course) but this game had a help section that was pretty good. It would give you the odds and recommend bet or fold. It told you the odds versus the pot odds. If your odds of winning the hand are better than the bet/pot amount ratio, you bet. You can win poker fairly consistently if you play it right, until you run into others who can play it right, then your chances are equal. If you can't play it right then they will take your goodies and send you home.

Anyhoo, this $40 gizmo looks pretty good. In fact I plan on getting one. My main fetish when it comes to this was not to have DVDs, but to have PC files. The box itself does it, and if I want to put something up on youtube I just stick the stick in the PC apparently. Once I get one and get busy I will probably be THE preeminent star of youtube. The reason ? I GOT BETA ! LOL

I won't even play the beta tapes right now, they are kinda old and I might only get one chance. Plus I have a Sony SL-HFR60 and I don't trust the reel motor very much as it was a high failure rate part. Actually I wish I had a beta rewinder. I think eBay's search engine would return "HAHAHAHAHAHAHA" if I looked for one there.

Us dinosaurs have to stick together.

My boss is from Austria and of course went to school there for electronics. He had to design a radio or something "showing all connections and component values" as an exam. He had forgotten to include the filament supply and the instructor drew a picture of a candle on it as a hint. When he told me this I responded "Hey, you were ready for sold state". Can't help it if the world can't catch up to us dinosaurs.

J

I hope you have better luck than I did when I tried digitising *my
Sony Beta tape library 5 years ago. *Everyone of them had lost
coercitivity and all that was left was snow. *They were kept in a cool
dark low humidity environment. *The one Memorex tape I bought (we were
told they were crap back in the day) played perfectly. *Unfortunately,
the 200 plus Sony tapes were full of irreplaceable videos. *Chuck

I really do appreciate all the different advice but as I've said
before I don't care about quality. I just want to watch my shows
without commercials using the equipment that I presently have. If all
my VCR's should one day just fail then I probably wouldn't replace
them. I might look into computer recording. Until then I don't want to
spend any additional money.

I do agree somewhat with Jurb about whats been taking place in this
country though. A prime example and one that really ****es me off is
this digital TV system we've had crammed down out throats. I happen to
be one of the millions of fringe area recipients of this bargain who
have to practically jump through their asses to squeeze even a channel
or two out of this. And there were millions more much worse off than
me who had to cave into cable or satellite just in order to get
anything. Someone got greased big time and the rest of us who who
don't give a crap about HD or can't afford to buy a new TV set got
****ed. Tell me how that was fair?

Well that's my rant for the evening. On another note I made a half
track audio tape of myself and some friends using a Wollensak tape
recorder and the ceramic mike that came with it 46 years ago. I
recently found the tape and played it on my Ampex 2 track stereo
machine and it sounded as crisp and clear as the day it was recorded.
Why does some tape whether audio or video seem to break down and is
crap while other still seems able to go the last mile? Lenny

" I just want to watch my shows
without commercials using the equipment that I presently have."

I can dig that. Fortunately for me I don't even watch TV. I'd bet that you only watch a couple of shows anyway. If I get the urge I would prefer to watch old eps of Gunsmoke and things like that, or Get Smart, Lost In Space. What I would really like is Star Trek but CBS is being very stingy with those. When you can't even get ONE full episode on youtube you know they are actively policing it.

I guess I can't bitch too much except for the fact that they should be in public domain. I'm one of those people who would love the RIAA to come knocking because at the trial I will bring in TONS of media. "Go through this and figure out wehat I owe becasue I already paid for this material", by their own words it is the material - not the media. My scratched up records would come in handy.

Unfortunately for what you want you are going to need set top boxe(s). I think with a splitter and one box set to 4 and the other to 3 you can have multiple event timer record, at least two anyway. You could luck out and have another show on one of the channels already coming through one of the boxes.

"If so, would it be
possible to obtain one that way? "

Like smuggling nylons behind the iron curtain or something ? Or dealing drugs, smuggling ? I dunno, in this country they send out a SWAT team for people who sell raw milk. No ****. They come and tear up the farmhouse, confiscate everything but your clothes, like any money, computers, firearms. Then it's hell getting it back even if acqitted. I think I'd rather deal drugs.

The other problem is that for my purposes I would need an NTSC input, so the only options available would be Japan, Canada and a couple of South American countries.

"Everyone of them had lost
coercitivity and all that was left was snow."

I find it hard to believe that that just happened to all of them. Perhaps a small EMP ? This occurs whenever lightning strikes. If it was a few of them yes. All of them ? I hate to ask after the fact but, are you sure the VCR didn't have bad heads ? I mean did you try them in another, or maybe make a test recording on one to see that they were actually erased ? I played a beta tape last year or so ago that was recorded back in about 1990. When I used to actually use the beta I ran across some tapes I got from someone that were in beta 1 and while my machine wouldn't play them, you could tell the signal was still there.

J

On Wed, 17 Oct 2012 07:56:21 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

" I just want to watch my shows
without commercials using the equipment that I presently have."

I can dig that. Fortunately for me I don't even watch TV. I'd bet that you only watch a couple of shows anyway. If I get the urge I would prefer to watch old eps of Gunsmoke and things like that, or Get Smart, Lost In Space. What I would really like is Star Trek but CBS is being very stingy with those. When you can't even get ONE full episode on youtube you know they are actively policing it.

I guess I can't bitch too much except for the fact that they should be in public domain. I'm one of those people who would love the RIAA to come knocking because at the trial I will bring in TONS of media. "Go through this and figure out wehat I owe becasue I already paid for this material", by their own words it is the material - not the media. My scratched up records would come in handy.

Unfortunately for what you want you are going to need set top boxe(s). I think with a splitter and one box set to 4 and the other to 3 you can have multiple event timer record, at least two anyway. You could luck out and have another show on one of the channels already coming through one of the boxes.

"If so, would it be
possible to obtain one that way? "

Like smuggling nylons behind the iron curtain or something ? Or dealing drugs, smuggling ? I dunno, in this country they send out a SWAT team for people who sell raw milk. No ****. They come and tear up the farmhouse, confiscate everything but your clothes, like any money, computers, firearms. Then it's hell getting it back even if acqitted. I think I'd rather deal drugs.

The other problem is that for my purposes I would need an NTSC input, so the only options available would be Japan, Canada and a couple of South American countries.

"Everyone of them had lost
coercitivity and all that was left was snow."

I find it hard to believe that that just happened to all of them. Perhaps a small EMP ? This occurs whenever lightning strikes. If it was a few of them yes. All of them ? I hate to ask after the fact but, are you sure the VCR didn't have bad heads ? I mean did you try them in another, or maybe make a test recording on one to see that they were actually erased ? I played a beta tape last year or so ago that was recorded back in about 1990. When I used to actually use the beta I ran across some tapes I got from someone that were in beta 1 and while my machine wouldn't play them, you could tell the signal was still there.

J


No, I don't think EMP is the answer since the Memorex tape was in the
same location. I used to be a consumer electronics technician when
Beta was around and I keep my deck in good shape. Pre-recorded Beta
tapes from the same era, also kept in the same location, playback
fine. I was at a major electronics retailer's headquarters during
that time period and we got a considerable discount on purchases so
most of the Sony tapes were bought in bulk from them. Chuck

chuck wrote:
On Mon, 15 Oct 2012 09:13:32 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

I'm not sure the 12AU7 was invented by the time of the ENIAC.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ENIAC

It probably used loktal tubes like 7V7s or something, untless it was even before that.

Tell you what, I wish I had maybe a 386 just for the hell of it. Even though almost all my old stuff still runs there is this one game called Johnny Vegas Poker that will not run on anything newer. It comes up with a divide by zero error. I'm not sure now but I think it would run on a 486SX but not a DX, something like that. I used it during my expensive gambling education. Yes I went out and played real poker (that's what was expensive of course) but this game had a help section that was pretty good. It would give you the odds and recommend bet or fold. It told you the odds versus the pot odds. If your odds of winning the hand are better than the bet/pot amount ratio, you bet. You can win poker fairly consistently if you play it right, until you run into others who can play it right, then your chances are equal. If you can't play it right then they will take your goodies and send you home.

Anyhoo, this $40 gizmo looks pretty good. In fact I plan on getting one. My main fetish when it comes to this was not to have DVDs, but to have PC files. The box itself does it, and if I want to put something up on youtube I just stick the stick in the PC apparently. Once I get one and get busy I will probably be THE preeminent star of youtube. The reason ? I GOT BETA ! LOL

I won't even play the beta tapes right now, they are kinda old and I might only get one chance. Plus I have a Sony SL-HFR60 and I don't trust the reel motor very much as it was a high failure rate part. Actually I wish I had a beta rewinder. I think eBay's search engine would return "HAHAHAHAHAHAHA" if I looked for one there.

Us dinosaurs have to stick together.

My boss is from Austria and of course went to school there for electronics. He had to design a radio or something "showing all connections and component values" as an exam. He had forgotten to include the filament supply and the instructor drew a picture of a candle on it as a hint. When he told me this I responded "Hey, you were ready for sold state". Can't help it if the world can't catch up to us dinosaurs.

J


I hope you have better luck than I did when I tried digitising my
Sony Beta tape library 5 years ago. Everyone of them had lost
coercitivity and all that was left was snow. They were kept in a cool
dark low humidity environment. The one Memorex tape I bought (we were
told they were crap back in the day) played perfectly. Unfortunately,
the 200 plus Sony tapes were full of irreplaceable videos. Chuck

the most durable VHS tapes I recall were from Kodak. I have no idea who
actually made them though, I doubt it was really them.

wrote:
Lenny I started recording HDTV in a PC 8 years ago. It was a very modest AMD Sempron on a cheap ECS mobo. Try it and you'll never go back to a VCR. Heck man, you repair that junk so you know just how crappy a VCR really is. The PC I'm on right now is recording as I type. It can also play out multiple HD streams while in record and never drops a frame. I have 2 more nearly identical machines that get used as plain jane PCs but are often in record. No heads to wear out, no dropouts no record time limits. It's way easier to implement than you think.

G?

there's still the PITA factor of using a computer as something else.

my VCR takes up 2U in a rack. I don't need a remote for it, or to even
have a TV connected to use it. You just hit some buttons and it does
stuff.

I just tried dragging an old computer to my front room to connect to the
projector. I'm still not done as I need to make some sort of PS/2
extension cable for the keyboard, I've not even thought about the mouse
yet, and I'll probably have to setup a monitor for the thing as well. I
got a DVI to HDMI converer cable, which possibly just blew up my HDMI
switcher box, but I won't know until that gets replaced. Where the hell
should I stash a keyboard and mouse connected to a computer across the
room anywas?

It's big hassle, even more obnoxious than having to flip over a laserdisc
in the middle of a movie in the dark.

"the most durable VHS tapes I recall were from Kodak"

Yes, as much as I hate to admit it. I used to always use and tout Maxell, high end Sony and TDK. However if you think about it, bet that most magnetic recording tape of any kind in that era was made either by TDK or BASF. Remember BASF ? Tween the two of them they ruled most of the tape field and a few other things.

However they of course made different formulations for different customers, who were then subrogated to the results.

I forgot to mention that I personally had the best results with BASF. With helical scanning, it seems there is another factor, the physical durability of the media. BASF was tough and if you put a T120 in a machine not quite aligned right it would be affected less than a TDK equivalent for example. However in initial recording quality the TDK was slightly better.

The is my observation and it is based on experience, in my case I usually used Sony betas although I did have one Sanyo, and Panasonic VHSes. I had one NEC VHS deck which I still actually have, it's actually branded a Harmon Kardon but it is an NEC. Top of the line, equivalent to an N-965U. This thing has the peculiar ability to record not only in hifi stereo, but linear Dolby stereo as well at the same time. I just had to have it. You could feed the NTSC off the tuner with MTS to the linear tracks and have pretty decent stereo and record totally different material on the hifi tracks. I did this a couple of times with football games back when I was into it. It was nice on Monday night games because ABC didn't **** with the mix, we got the crowd noise in the back speakers and the radio announcer in the front. Watching on a five foot Advent we never heard a TV commercial. Sawum, didn't hearum.

Anyway, all we need now is to preserve this old stuff because eventually it will be gone.

J

wrote: "the most durable VHS tapes I recall were from
Kodak" Yes, as much as I hate to admit it. I used to always use and
tout Maxell, high end Sony and TDK. However if you think about it, bet
that most magnetic recording tape of any kind in that era was made either
by TDK or BASF. Remember BASF ? Tween the two of them they ruled most of
the tape field and a few other things.

However they of course made different formulations for different
customers, who were then subrogated to the results.

I wish I had beta deck to see how the L750 tapes of Dr Who are doing.

I forgot to mention that I personally had the best results with BASF.
With helical scanning, it seems there is another factor, the physical
durability of the media. BASF was tough and if you put a T120 in a machine
not quite aligned right it would be affected less than a TDK equivalent
for example. However in initial recording quality the TDK was slightly
better.

Abot 10 years ago, when I bought my last case of VHS tapes the only option
was Fuji, and somehow they're still making (or there's some infinite
supply in a warehouse somewhere of these BGR-120 "broadcast master grade"
or something equally japanese marketing speak-ish.

Somehow most of my miniDV tapes from the same time, about 10 years ago can
still be played. some have dropouts, but if you rewind them and play onece
more, they work again. Those things are so thin, stretchable and flimsy
it's amazing they even worked the first time. I had a weird problem with
using different brands of tapes. If I used panasonic tapes, then one type
of sony tape they're all get eaten. If after cleaning the deck, I only
used the sony tapes it was ok. The rumor was there was a different
lubricant on the tape that wasn't compatible, somehow. I have no idea if
this was true, but I was able to repeat it over and over again.

In article ,
chuck wrote:
On Wed, 17 Oct 2012 07:56:21 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

" I just want to watch my shows
without commercials using the equipment that I presently have."

I can dig that. Fortunately for me I don't even watch TV. I'd bet that
you only watch a couple of shows anyway. If I get the urge I would prefer
to watch old eps of Gunsmoke and things like that, or Get Smart, Lost In
Space. What I would really like is Star Trek but CBS is being very stingy
with those. When you can't even get ONE full episode on youtube you know
they are actively policing it.

I guess I can't bitch too much except for the fact that they should be
in public domain. I'm one of those people who would love the RIAA to come
knocking because at the trial I will bring in TONS of media. "Go through
this and figure out wehat I owe becasue I already paid for this
material", by their own words it is the material - not the media. My
scratched up records would come in handy.

Unfortunately for what you want you are going to need set top boxe(s). I
think with a splitter and one box set to 4 and the other to 3 you can
have multiple event timer record, at least two anyway. You could luck out
and have another show on one of the channels already coming through one
of the boxes.

"If so, would it be
possible to obtain one that way? "

Like smuggling nylons behind the iron curtain or something ? Or dealing
drugs, smuggling ? I dunno, in this country they send out a SWAT team for
people who sell raw milk. No ****. They come and tear up the farmhouse,
confiscate everything but your clothes, like any money, computers,
firearms. Then it's hell getting it back even if acqitted. I think I'd
rather deal drugs.

The other problem is that for my purposes I would need an NTSC input, so
the only options available would be Japan, Canada and a couple of South
American countries.

"Everyone of them had lost
coercitivity and all that was left was snow."

I find it hard to believe that that just happened to all of them.
Perhaps a small EMP ? This occurs whenever lightning strikes. If it was a
few of them yes. All of them ? I hate to ask after the fact but, are you
sure the VCR didn't have bad heads ? I mean did you try them in another,
or maybe make a test recording on one to see that they were actually
erased ? I played a beta tape last year or so ago that was recorded back
in about 1990. When I used to actually use the beta I ran across some
tapes I got from someone that were in beta 1 and while my machine
wouldn't play them, you could tell the signal was still there.

J


No, I don't think EMP is the answer since the Memorex tape was in the
same location. I used to be a consumer electronics technician when
Beta was around and I keep my deck in good shape. Pre-recorded Beta
tapes from the same era, also kept in the same location, playback
fine. I was at a major electronics retailer's headquarters during
that time period and we got a considerable discount on purchases so
most of the Sony tapes were bought in bulk from them. Chuck


Sony equipment may be good stuff, but Sony media, unless the top of
the line, is crap, subcontracted out to the lowest bidder.

I've had:
Sony VHS tape that was too wide so that the tape guides in the VCR
put a wrinkle on the edge.

A cake box spindle of Sony CD-R blanks with 2/3rds of them that
wouldn't burn, on a Sony burner.

Sony 3.5 inch 1.44 Meg diskettes that had a five percent failure rate
for a clean format. (Even the no-name Chinese diskettes from Office
Max had less failures).


Mark Zenier
Googleproofaddress(account:mzenier provider:eskimo domain:com)