Hmmm, slightly off topic but here we go.


I have just had delivered, and installed, a new Gas Cooker. I am in the
UK.

It seems to me that the cooker is woefully inadequate.
A standard ring with a standard pan that fits the ring, will not make a pan
of chips (french fries).

Similarly, the oven, which has a control up to Gas Mark 8, will not heat the
oven higher than Gas Mark 5, and 45 minutes at Max failed to brown properly
a Poussin for dinner tonight, and the garlic bread was similarly uncooked,
so my breath is going to stink tomorrow.


But the question is, how might you measure the power output of such a cooker
to determine whether there is or isn't a problem with it?
All I know is that according to the Gas Safety Certificate given to me by
the installers, it is rated at 9KWHr.
(It has an oven and grill (mutually exclusive use), 2 standard rings, one
small one and one large one. I haven't a clue what this 9KWHr figure
actually means in practice)


Now, I know there are methods of checking microwave power by boiling a known
quantity of water and timing it, so is there perhaps a similar method for a
gas cooker?
(Obviously more difficult than the Microwave because the efficiency of
heating is going to be vastly different and very subjective).



Cheers,


Gareth.

On Tue, 31 Jul 2012 19:47:18 +0100, "Gareth Magennis"
wrote:

Hmmm, slightly off topic but here we go.


I have just had delivered, and installed, a new Gas Cooker. I am in the
UK.

It seems to me that the cooker is woefully inadequate.
A standard ring with a standard pan that fits the ring, will not make a pan
of chips (french fries).

Similarly, the oven, which has a control up to Gas Mark 8, will not heat the
oven higher than Gas Mark 5, and 45 minutes at Max failed to brown properly
a Poussin for dinner tonight, and the garlic bread was similarly uncooked,
so my breath is going to stink tomorrow.


But the question is, how might you measure the power output of such a cooker
to determine whether there is or isn't a problem with it?
All I know is that according to the Gas Safety Certificate given to me by
the installers, it is rated at 9KWHr.
(It has an oven and grill (mutually exclusive use), 2 standard rings, one
small one and one large one. I haven't a clue what this 9KWHr figure
actually means in practice)


Now, I know there are methods of checking microwave power by boiling a known
quantity of water and timing it, so is there perhaps a similar method for a
gas cooker?
(Obviously more difficult than the Microwave because the efficiency of
heating is going to be vastly different and very subjective).



Cheers,


Gareth.


Perhaps there's a conversion at
http://www.onlineconversion.com/power.htm

wrote in message
...
On Tue, 31 Jul 2012 19:47:18 +0100, "Gareth Magennis"
wrote:

Hmmm, slightly off topic but here we go.


I have just had delivered, and installed, a new Gas Cooker. I am in the
UK.

It seems to me that the cooker is woefully inadequate.
A standard ring with a standard pan that fits the ring, will not make a
pan
of chips (french fries).

Similarly, the oven, which has a control up to Gas Mark 8, will not heat
the
oven higher than Gas Mark 5, and 45 minutes at Max failed to brown
properly
a Poussin for dinner tonight, and the garlic bread was similarly uncooked,
so my breath is going to stink tomorrow.


But the question is, how might you measure the power output of such a
cooker
to determine whether there is or isn't a problem with it?
All I know is that according to the Gas Safety Certificate given to me by
the installers, it is rated at 9KWHr.
(It has an oven and grill (mutually exclusive use), 2 standard rings, one
small one and one large one. I haven't a clue what this 9KWHr figure
actually means in practice)


Now, I know there are methods of checking microwave power by boiling a
known
quantity of water and timing it, so is there perhaps a similar method for
a
gas cooker?
(Obviously more difficult than the Microwave because the efficiency of
heating is going to be vastly different and very subjective).



Cheers,


Gareth.


Perhaps there's a conversion at
http://www.onlineconversion.com/power.htm




Thanks, but I need a way of determining my Cookers power output.


Gareth.

On 7/31/2012 11:47 AM, Gareth Magennis wrote:
Hmmm, slightly off topic but here we go.


I have just had delivered, and installed, a new Gas Cooker. I am in the UK.

It seems to me that the cooker is woefully inadequate.
A standard ring with a standard pan that fits the ring, will not make a
pan of chips (french fries).

Similarly, the oven, which has a control up to Gas Mark 8, will not heat
the oven higher than Gas Mark 5, and 45 minutes at Max failed to brown
properly a Poussin for dinner tonight, and the garlic bread was
similarly uncooked, so my breath is going to stink tomorrow.


But the question is, how might you measure the power output of such a
cooker to determine whether there is or isn't a problem with it?
All I know is that according to the Gas Safety Certificate given to me
by the installers, it is rated at 9KWHr.
(It has an oven and grill (mutually exclusive use), 2 standard rings,
one small one and one large one. I haven't a clue what this 9KWHr figure
actually means in practice)


Now, I know there are methods of checking microwave power by boiling a
known quantity of water and timing it, so is there perhaps a similar
method for a gas cooker?
(Obviously more difficult than the Microwave because the efficiency of
heating is going to be vastly different and very subjective).



Cheers,


Gareth.

Google sez
So 1 kWh is the energy equivalent of 3412.3 BTUs.

What's the resolution of your gas meter? IF you can determine the cubic
feet
per unit time, your gas company can tell you how many BTUs that is.
Assuming your air is mixed right and the flame is blue, the efficiency
should be near 100% of what the gas company sez.

Boiling the water gives you the EFFECTIVE usable energy transfer
in the proper context. That's what really matters when cooking food.
1 BTU raises the temperature of a pound of water one degree F.

Bottom line is that you didn't get what you thought you bought.
I'd contact the installer.

On Tue, 31 Jul 2012 19:47:18 +0100, "Gareth Magennis"
put finger to keyboard and composed:

it is rated at 9KWHr.

Do you mean 9kW?

- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.

"Franc Zabkar" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 31 Jul 2012 19:47:18 +0100, "Gareth Magennis"
put finger to keyboard and composed:

it is rated at 9KWHr.

Do you mean 9kW?




No.
It took an hour to cook my Pouisson and Garlic Bread.


Gareth.

"Gareth Magennis"

I have just had delivered, and installed, a new Gas Cooker. I am in the
UK.

It seems to me that the cooker is woefully inadequate.
A standard ring with a standard pan that fits the ring, will not make a
pan of chips (french fries).

Similarly, the oven, which has a control up to Gas Mark 8, will not heat
the oven higher than Gas Mark 5, and 45 minutes at Max failed to brown
properly a Poussin for dinner tonight, and the garlic bread was similarly
uncooked, so my breath is going to stink tomorrow.

But the question is, how might you measure the power output of such a
cooker to determine whether there is or isn't a problem with it?


** Get one of these;

http://oswaldadventures.files.wordpr...hermometer.jpg

The oven should heat to 250C in about 15 minutes.

I put 1 litre of tap water ( 13C ) in a 4 litre saucepan and heated it to
boiling on a large ( 100mm dia ) burner.

That took 5.5 minutes.

Equates to 1.1kW being delivered into the water.


.... Phil

Gareth Magennis wrote:

Hmmm, slightly off topic but here we go.

I have just had delivered, and installed, a new Gas Cooker. I am in the
UK.

It seems to me that the cooker is woefully inadequate.
A standard ring with a standard pan that fits the ring, will not make a pan
of chips (french fries).

Similarly, the oven, which has a control up to Gas Mark 8, will not heat the
oven higher than Gas Mark 5, and 45 minutes at Max failed to brown properly
a Poussin for dinner tonight, and the garlic bread was similarly uncooked,
so my breath is going to stink tomorrow.

But the question is, how might you measure the power output of such a cooker
to determine whether there is or isn't a problem with it?
All I know is that according to the Gas Safety Certificate given to me by
the installers, it is rated at 9KWHr.
(It has an oven and grill (mutually exclusive use), 2 standard rings, one
small one and one large one. I haven't a clue what this 9KWHr figure
actually means in practice)

Now, I know there are methods of checking microwave power by boiling a known
quantity of water and timing it, so is there perhaps a similar method for a
gas cooker?
(Obviously more difficult than the Microwave because the efficiency of
heating is going to be vastly different and very subjective).


Is it avilable on natural gas & propane versions? It may have the
wrong orfices installed.

On 1/08/2012 4:47 AM, Gareth Magennis wrote:
Hmmm, slightly off topic but here we go.


I have just had delivered, and installed, a new Gas Cooker. I am in
the UK.

It seems to me that the cooker is woefully inadequate.
A standard ring with a standard pan that fits the ring, will not make a
pan of chips (french fries).

Similarly, the oven, which has a control up to Gas Mark 8, will not heat
the oven higher than Gas Mark 5, and 45 minutes at Max failed to brown
properly a Poussin for dinner tonight, and the garlic bread was
similarly uncooked, so my breath is going to stink tomorrow.


But the question is, how might you measure the power output of such a
cooker to determine whether there is or isn't a problem with it?
All I know is that according to the Gas Safety Certificate given to me
by the installers, it is rated at 9KWHr.
(It has an oven and grill (mutually exclusive use), 2 standard rings,
one small one and one large one. I haven't a clue what this 9KWHr
figure actually means in practice)

Presumably it's actually 9kW, not 9kWHr, given that the latter would be
meaningless in this context.


Now, I know there are methods of checking microwave power by boiling a
known quantity of water and timing it, so is there perhaps a similar
method for a gas cooker?
(Obviously more difficult than the Microwave because the efficiency of
heating is going to be vastly different and very subjective).

Unless it has an externally flued oven, all the heat from the cooker is
going into the room, and will heat the room up. Comparing how quickly
the temperature rises with the rate when you use an electric heater of
known power, would give a measure of the power of the cooker.

However, you seem to be describing a cooker with a significant problem.
Unless this is some unapproved Chinese import with fake certification,
my guess is that there's a gas supply problem. Either your local gas
pressure is unacceptably low, or there's a blockage in the pipework
(kinked flexible hose, or squashed pipe, or some such).

Sylvia.

Gareth Magennis wrote in message
...
Hmmm, slightly off topic but here we go.


I have just had delivered, and installed, a new Gas Cooker. I am in the
UK.

It seems to me that the cooker is woefully inadequate.
A standard ring with a standard pan that fits the ring, will not make a
pan
of chips (french fries).

Similarly, the oven, which has a control up to Gas Mark 8, will not heat
the
oven higher than Gas Mark 5, and 45 minutes at Max failed to brown
properly
a Poussin for dinner tonight, and the garlic bread was similarly uncooked,
so my breath is going to stink tomorrow.


But the question is, how might you measure the power output of such a
cooker
to determine whether there is or isn't a problem with it?
All I know is that according to the Gas Safety Certificate given to me by
the installers, it is rated at 9KWHr.
(It has an oven and grill (mutually exclusive use), 2 standard rings, one
small one and one large one. I haven't a clue what this 9KWHr figure
actually means in practice)


Now, I know there are methods of checking microwave power by boiling a
known
quantity of water and timing it, so is there perhaps a similar method for
a
gas cooker?
(Obviously more difficult than the Microwave because the efficiency of
heating is going to be vastly different and very subjective).



Cheers,


Gareth.







With my gas bills (Southern Gas) is included a complicated (time varying due
to varying calorific value of the gas sources, assuming they are honest in
this fudge factor)
factor for multiplying gas cu-ft / cu-lt ? via kilowatt-hours etc to LSD.
With nothing else using gas, including pilot lights if any, boil a litre of
water and take measuremnts of the gas-meter before and after the boiling.
So you then have the KWH required to raise 1 Lt from tap temp to boiling and
the KWH of gas used

"Gareth Magennis" wrote in message
...
Hmmm, slightly off topic but here we go.


I have just had delivered, and installed, a new Gas Cooker. I am in the
UK.

It seems to me that the cooker is woefully inadequate.
A standard ring with a standard pan that fits the ring, will not make a
pan of chips (french fries).

Similarly, the oven, which has a control up to Gas Mark 8, will not heat
the oven higher than Gas Mark 5, and 45 minutes at Max failed to brown
properly a Poussin for dinner tonight, and the garlic bread was similarly
uncooked, so my breath is going to stink tomorrow.


But the question is, how might you measure the power output of such a
cooker to determine whether there is or isn't a problem with it?
All I know is that according to the Gas Safety Certificate given to me by
the installers, it is rated at 9KWHr.
(It has an oven and grill (mutually exclusive use), 2 standard rings, one
small one and one large one. I haven't a clue what this 9KWHr figure
actually means in practice)


Now, I know there are methods of checking microwave power by boiling a
known quantity of water and timing it, so is there perhaps a similar
method for a gas cooker?
(Obviously more difficult than the Microwave because the efficiency of
heating is going to be vastly different and very subjective).



Cheers,


Gareth.


Thanks for all the suggestions.

OK, I've boiled a litre of water in a 2 litre pan on the large 100mm ring
and it took around 6 - 6.5 minutes, kind of in the same ballpark as Phils
results.

Thing is my probably 20 year old cooker had 4 small rings of the same size,
but they were quite powerful, so my french fries experiment was done on one
of the medium sized rings of the new cooker, and they are not powerful
enough to cook them. So I was comparing Apples and Oranges there.
The 100mm ring probably would do fine with a suitably larger pan, so perhaps
there's nothing wrong up top.

The oven definitely has a problem, and I have noticed the floor pan above
the burner is bent with a damaged philips screw holding it in, so someone
has been messing with it. I will investigate this later.

Phils 250oC in 15 minutes is what I would have expected from my old cooker -
this equates to Gas Mark 8. This one never got above Mark 5 despite 45
minutes on full blast.
I believe the thermostat is reasonably accurate because it tallies with my
common experience of putting a chicken in the oven at Mark 8 and Mark 5.
The results last night were definitely Mark 5.

The cooker did come with an extra set of jets and some kind of choke (?)
coupling for Propane gas - the packet is clearly marked as to what they
are, the fitters pointed them out too, so I don't think the wrong jets are
fitted.


I'll do the Gas meter calculation, probably over the weekend - will again
run the oven on full for an hour and see how much gas it has used, and see
if it has cooked my shoulder of lamb.
I know for a fact it won't do roast potatoes right now. Bummer.


Thanks to all,


Gareth.

On Aug 1, 2:14*am, "Gareth Magennis"
wrote:
"Gareth Magennis" wrote in message

...









Hmmm, slightly off topic but here we go.

I have just had delivered, and installed, a new Gas Cooker. * I am in the
UK.

It seems to me that the cooker is woefully inadequate.
A standard ring with a standard pan that fits the ring, will not make a
pan of chips *(french fries).

Similarly, the oven, which has a control up to Gas Mark 8, will not heat
the oven higher than Gas Mark 5, and 45 minutes at Max failed to brown
properly a Poussin for dinner tonight, and the garlic bread was similarly
uncooked, so my breath is going to stink tomorrow.

But the question is, how might you measure the power output of such a
cooker to determine whether there is or isn't a problem with it?
All I know is that according to the Gas Safety Certificate given to me by
the installers, it is rated at 9KWHr.
(It has an oven and grill (mutually exclusive use), 2 standard rings, one
small one and one large one. *I haven't a clue what this 9KWHr figure
actually means in practice)

Now, I know there are methods of checking microwave power by boiling a
known quantity of water and timing it, so is there perhaps a similar
method for a gas cooker?
(Obviously more difficult than the Microwave because the efficiency of
heating is going to be vastly different and very subjective).

Cheers,

Gareth.

Thanks for all the suggestions.

OK, I've boiled a litre of water in a 2 litre pan on the large 100mm ring
and it took around 6 - 6.5 minutes, kind of in the same ballpark as Phils
results.

Thing is my probably 20 year old cooker had 4 small rings of the same size,
but they were quite powerful, so my french fries experiment was done on one
of the medium sized rings of the new cooker, and they are not powerful
enough to cook them. So I was comparing Apples and Oranges there.
The 100mm ring probably would do fine with a suitably larger pan, so perhaps
there's nothing wrong up top.

The oven definitely has a problem, and I have noticed the floor pan above
the burner is bent with a damaged philips screw holding it in, so someone
has been messing with it. *I will investigate this later.

Phils 250oC in 15 minutes is what I would have expected from my old cooker -
this equates to Gas Mark 8. *This one never got above Mark 5 despite 45
minutes on full blast.
I believe the thermostat is reasonably accurate because it tallies with my
common experience of putting a chicken in the oven at Mark 8 and Mark 5.
The results last night were definitely Mark 5.

The cooker did come with an extra set of jets and some kind of choke (?)
coupling *for Propane gas - the packet is clearly marked as to what they
are, the fitters pointed them out too, so I don't think the wrong jets are
fitted.

I'll do the Gas meter calculation, probably over the weekend - will again
run the oven on full for an hour and see how much gas it has used, and see
if it has cooked my shoulder of lamb.
I know for a fact it won't do roast potatoes right now. *Bummer.


Each burner should have a BTU/hr and/or kW rating associated with it.
The manufacturer should have that information if it is not in the
owner's manual.
Then I would try to compare that to the BTU/hr rating was for the
burners from your old cooker. If you don't have the manual, or if the
manual lacks that information, I'd try calling an appliance parts
dealer, and ask about what the rating of a replacement burner for the
old cooker would be.

Did you install the cooker, or did the dealer? Likely Sylvia is right,
and the installer squeezed the hose.

The simplest possibility is that the gas supply valve is not open all
the way.

If it appears that the GAS appliance has been tampered with, it's an
indicator that the appliance could be unsafe, and also that it's possibly
been returned by a previous buyer when it was discovered that the output was
lower than expected.

Undercooked food will make people very sick.

--
Cheers,
WB
..............


"Gareth Magennis" wrote in message
...


OK, I've boiled a litre of water in a 2 litre pan on the large 100mm ring
and it took around 6 - 6.5 minutes, kind of in the same ballpark as Phils
results.

Thing is my probably 20 year old cooker had 4 small rings of the same
size, but they were quite powerful, so my french fries experiment was done
on one of the medium sized rings of the new cooker, and they are not
powerful enough to cook them. So I was comparing Apples and Oranges there.
The 100mm ring probably would do fine with a suitably larger pan, so
perhaps there's nothing wrong up top.

The oven definitely has a problem, and I have noticed the floor pan above
the burner is bent with a damaged philips screw holding it in, so someone
has been messing with it. I will investigate this later.

Phils 250oC in 15 minutes is what I would have expected from my old
cooker - this equates to Gas Mark 8. This one never got above Mark 5
despite 45 minutes on full blast.
I believe the thermostat is reasonably accurate because it tallies with my
common experience of putting a chicken in the oven at Mark 8 and Mark 5.
The results last night were definitely Mark 5.

The cooker did come with an extra set of jets and some kind of choke (?)
coupling for Propane gas - the packet is clearly marked as to what they
are, the fitters pointed them out too, so I don't think the wrong jets are
fitted.


I'll do the Gas meter calculation, probably over the weekend - will again
run the oven on full for an hour and see how much gas it has used, and see
if it has cooked my shoulder of lamb.
I know for a fact it won't do roast potatoes right now. Bummer.


Thanks to all,


Gareth.

"Wild_Bill" wrote in message
...
If it appears that the GAS appliance has been tampered with, it's an
indicator that the appliance could be unsafe, and also that it's possibly
been returned by a previous buyer when it was discovered that the output
was lower than expected.




I came to this same conclusion today, and consequently contacted the
installers to sort it out.



Cheers,


Gareth.

On Tue, 31 Jul 2012 22:44:14 +0100, "Gareth Magennis"
put finger to keyboard and composed:



"Franc Zabkar" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 31 Jul 2012 19:47:18 +0100, "Gareth Magennis"
put finger to keyboard and composed:

it is rated at 9KWHr.

Do you mean 9kW?




No.
It took an hour to cook my Pouisson and Garlic Bread.


Gareth.

Kilowatt-hour is a unit of energy, not a unit of power. As such, it
doesn't make any sense to rate a gas cooker in this way. That is
unless you have something like a barbecue, and you are rating the
energy capacity of the gas cylinder in an unusual way.

- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.

On Tue, 31 Jul 2012 19:47:18 +0100, "Gareth Magennis"
wrote:

Hmmm, slightly off topic but here we go.


I have just had delivered, and installed, a new Gas Cooker. I am in the
UK.

It seems to me that the cooker is woefully inadequate.
A standard ring with a standard pan that fits the ring, will not make a pan
of chips (french fries).

Similarly, the oven, which has a control up to Gas Mark 8, will not heat the
oven higher than Gas Mark 5, and 45 minutes at Max failed to brown properly
a Poussin for dinner tonight, and the garlic bread was similarly uncooked,
so my breath is going to stink tomorrow.


But the question is, how might you measure the power output of such a cooker
to determine whether there is or isn't a problem with it?
All I know is that according to the Gas Safety Certificate given to me by
the installers, it is rated at 9KWHr.
(It has an oven and grill (mutually exclusive use), 2 standard rings, one
small one and one large one. I haven't a clue what this 9KWHr figure
actually means in practice)


Now, I know there are methods of checking microwave power by boiling a known
quantity of water and timing it, so is there perhaps a similar method for a
gas cooker?
(Obviously more difficult than the Microwave because the efficiency of
heating is going to be vastly different and very subjective).



Cheers,


Gareth.

I'm not sure how this cooker is built, but a common kitchen range
could have two burners, a grill, and an oven.

Here in the (former) colonies the usual oven has a thermostat that
allows setting the temperature up to at least 450°F (230°C for those
using a real temperature measurement system). In the absence of a
thermostat, oven temperature guages are available. If the oven cannot
be heated to the appropriate temperature for baking, something would
seem to be wrong. On the range I use the smaller oven will reach
400°F in less than 5 minutes - quite adequate for the kind of baking I
do.

Similarly the burners (presumably what you call a gas ring) will bring
a quart (liter to you) of water to a boil in about 10 minutes - about
the same time it takes me to brown a pound (half kilo) of ground beef
for whatever concoction I am preparing.

In the US gas appliances are set up for either natural gas (methane)
or LP gas (propane). The two gasses require different orifice sizes
due to the different energy content of the gasses. If a neighbor of
mine was complaining about a problem such as you describe, I would
suggest checking if the appliance was set up for propane rather than
natural gas.

PlainBill

wrote in message
...
On Tue, 31 Jul 2012 19:47:18 +0100, "Gareth Magennis"
wrote:

Hmmm, slightly off topic but here we go.


I have just had delivered, and installed, a new Gas Cooker. I am in the
UK.

It seems to me that the cooker is woefully inadequate.
A standard ring with a standard pan that fits the ring, will not make a
pan
of chips (french fries).

Similarly, the oven, which has a control up to Gas Mark 8, will not heat
the
oven higher than Gas Mark 5, and 45 minutes at Max failed to brown
properly
a Poussin for dinner tonight, and the garlic bread was similarly uncooked,
so my breath is going to stink tomorrow.


But the question is, how might you measure the power output of such a
cooker
to determine whether there is or isn't a problem with it?
All I know is that according to the Gas Safety Certificate given to me by
the installers, it is rated at 9KWHr.
(It has an oven and grill (mutually exclusive use), 2 standard rings, one
small one and one large one. I haven't a clue what this 9KWHr figure
actually means in practice)


Now, I know there are methods of checking microwave power by boiling a
known
quantity of water and timing it, so is there perhaps a similar method for
a
gas cooker?
(Obviously more difficult than the Microwave because the efficiency of
heating is going to be vastly different and very subjective).



Cheers,


Gareth.

I'm not sure how this cooker is built, but a common kitchen range
could have two burners, a grill, and an oven.

Here in the (former) colonies the usual oven has a thermostat that
allows setting the temperature up to at least 450°F (230°C for those
using a real temperature measurement system). In the absence of a
thermostat, oven temperature guages are available. If the oven cannot
be heated to the appropriate temperature for baking, something would
seem to be wrong. On the range I use the smaller oven will reach
400°F in less than 5 minutes - quite adequate for the kind of baking I
do.

Similarly the burners (presumably what you call a gas ring) will bring
a quart (liter to you) of water to a boil in about 10 minutes - about
the same time it takes me to brown a pound (half kilo) of ground beef
for whatever concoction I am preparing.

In the US gas appliances are set up for either natural gas (methane)
or LP gas (propane). The two gasses require different orifice sizes
due to the different energy content of the gasses. If a neighbor of
mine was complaining about a problem such as you describe, I would
suggest checking if the appliance was set up for propane rather than
natural gas.

PlainBill



So if a cooker had Propane jets and was run on Natural Gas, would it run
cooler or hotter?

(I'm running on Natural Gas)


Cheers,


Gareth.

"Gareth Magennis" wrote in message
...


wrote in message
...
On Tue, 31 Jul 2012 19:47:18 +0100, "Gareth Magennis"
wrote:

Hmmm, slightly off topic but here we go.


I have just had delivered, and installed, a new Gas Cooker. I am in the
UK.

It seems to me that the cooker is woefully inadequate.
A standard ring with a standard pan that fits the ring, will not make a
pan
of chips (french fries).

Similarly, the oven, which has a control up to Gas Mark 8, will not heat
the
oven higher than Gas Mark 5, and 45 minutes at Max failed to brown
properly
a Poussin for dinner tonight, and the garlic bread was similarly
uncooked,
so my breath is going to stink tomorrow.


But the question is, how might you measure the power output of such a
cooker
to determine whether there is or isn't a problem with it?
All I know is that according to the Gas Safety Certificate given to me by
the installers, it is rated at 9KWHr.
(It has an oven and grill (mutually exclusive use), 2 standard rings, one
small one and one large one. I haven't a clue what this 9KWHr figure
actually means in practice)


Now, I know there are methods of checking microwave power by boiling a
known
quantity of water and timing it, so is there perhaps a similar method for
a
gas cooker?
(Obviously more difficult than the Microwave because the efficiency of
heating is going to be vastly different and very subjective).



Cheers,


Gareth.

I'm not sure how this cooker is built, but a common kitchen range
could have two burners, a grill, and an oven.

Here in the (former) colonies the usual oven has a thermostat that
allows setting the temperature up to at least 450°F (230°C for those
using a real temperature measurement system). In the absence of a
thermostat, oven temperature guages are available. If the oven cannot
be heated to the appropriate temperature for baking, something would
seem to be wrong. On the range I use the smaller oven will reach
400°F in less than 5 minutes - quite adequate for the kind of baking I
do.

Similarly the burners (presumably what you call a gas ring) will bring
a quart (liter to you) of water to a boil in about 10 minutes - about
the same time it takes me to brown a pound (half kilo) of ground beef
for whatever concoction I am preparing.

In the US gas appliances are set up for either natural gas (methane)
or LP gas (propane). The two gasses require different orifice sizes
due to the different energy content of the gasses. If a neighbor of
mine was complaining about a problem such as you describe, I would
suggest checking if the appliance was set up for propane rather than
natural gas.

PlainBill



So if a cooker had Propane jets and was run on Natural Gas, would it run
cooler or hotter?

(I'm running on Natural Gas)


Cheers,


Gareth.


Ah, think I can answer my own question.
The jet fitted to the 100mm burner is stamped 115. The spare jet provided
with the cooker for use with Propane is 085.
Propane requires a smaller jet.

The other burners have similar outcomes. So it looks like the cooker is not
incorrectly fitted with jets for use with Propane.
I haven't checked the oven one as that would entail removing the burner
cover that has been tampered with, thus destroying the evidence that I have
been supplied with a "customer return".



Gareth.

Gareth Magennis wrote:

Ah, think I can answer my own question.
The jet fitted to the 100mm burner is stamped 115. The spare jet provided
with the cooker for use with Propane is 085.
Propane requires a smaller jet.

The other burners have similar outcomes. So it looks like the cooker is not
incorrectly fitted with jets for use with Propane.
I haven't checked the oven one as that would entail removing the burner
cover that has been tampered with, thus destroying the evidence that I have
been supplied with a "customer return".


What does the manual say is the correct orfice?

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
m...

Gareth Magennis wrote:

Ah, think I can answer my own question.
The jet fitted to the 100mm burner is stamped 115. The spare jet
provided
with the cooker for use with Propane is 085.
Propane requires a smaller jet.

The other burners have similar outcomes. So it looks like the cooker is
not
incorrectly fitted with jets for use with Propane.
I haven't checked the oven one as that would entail removing the burner
cover that has been tampered with, thus destroying the evidence that I
have
been supplied with a "customer return".


What does the manual say is the correct orfice?



There is no technical information in the user manual, nor any information on
the manufacturers website.
http://www.vha.uk.com/cgi-bin/view_product.cgi?id=4

In the UK it is illegal to tamper with gas appliances unless you are
qualified to do so.
http://www.gassaferegister.co.uk/pdf...pplia nce.pdf



Cheers,

Gareth.

On Sat, 4 Aug 2012 19:47:18 +0100, "Gareth Magennis"
wrote:


So if a cooker had Propane jets and was run on Natural Gas, would it run
cooler or hotter?

(I'm running on Natural Gas)


Cheers,


Gareth.


Ah, think I can answer my own question.
The jet fitted to the 100mm burner is stamped 115. The spare jet provided
with the cooker for use with Propane is 085.
Propane requires a smaller jet.

The other burners have similar outcomes. So it looks like the cooker is not
incorrectly fitted with jets for use with Propane.
I haven't checked the oven one as that would entail removing the burner
cover that has been tampered with, thus destroying the evidence that I have
been supplied with a "customer return".



Gareth.


If you used a propane orifice with natural gas the thermal output
would be less. The fact that you were sold a returned unit indicates
that a previous customer had a problem and sent it back. Now it's
your turn, and I suggest you complain loudly about unscrupulous
businesses that knowingly sell defective merchandise.

PlainBill

Gareth Magennis wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell wrote:

What does the manual say is the correct orfice?

There is no technical information in the user manual, nor any information on
the manufacturers website.
http://www.vha.uk.com/cgi-bin/view_product.cgi?id=4


Then I wouldn't buy any crap from that OEM.


In the UK it is illegal to tamper with gas appliances unless you are
qualified to do so.
http://www.gassaferegister.co.uk/pdf...pplia nce.pdf


Typical of the nanny state, that you can't even verify the right
components were used to put it together.

ungli jigal talks about the story of four years life "Engineering Student"


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-MweIUKAig


subscribe for more footages.

On Aug 5, 4:30*am, "Gareth Magennis"
wrote:
"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in messagenews:Kf6dnavUqbbwXIDNnZ2dnUVZ_hidnZ2d@earth link.com...











Gareth Magennis wrote:

Ah, think I can answer my own question.
The jet fitted to the 100mm burner is stamped 115. *The spare jet
provided
with the cooker for use with Propane is 085.
Propane requires a smaller jet.

The other burners have similar outcomes. *So it looks like the cooker is
not
incorrectly fitted with jets for use with Propane.
I haven't checked the oven one as that would entail removing the burner
cover that has been tampered with, thus destroying the evidence that I
have
been supplied with a "customer return".

* What does the manual say is the correct orfice?

There is no technical information in the user manual, nor any information on
the manufacturers website.http://www.vha.uk.com/cgi-bin/view_product.cgi?id=4

When I googled this model number, a lot of what we would call
"closeout" or "floor models" show up. Was this sold at a clearance
price? Floor models may have been jostled, and perhaps damaged.

Is it usual for a gas cooker not to have a back? I always worry about
the chance of spills falling down the back. I've seen stoves on the
Continent with hinged lids, that act as a back splash during cooking.


In the UK it is illegal to tamper with gas appliances unless you are
qualified to do so.http://www.gassaferegister.co.uk/pdf...y%20work%20on%...


At least on my old gas stove, I can replace burners and the ducts
leading from the control knobs to the burners. Hooking up appliances
to existing gas valves is well within every homeowner's skill set,
although the utility would like to check your work.

On Aug 6, 8:22*am, spamtrap1888 wrote:
On Aug 5, 4:30*am, "Gareth Magennis"
wrote:









"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in messagenews:Kf6dnavUqbbwXIDNnZ2dnUVZ_hidnZ2d@earth link.com...

Gareth Magennis wrote:

Ah, think I can answer my own question.
The jet fitted to the 100mm burner is stamped 115. *The spare jet
provided
with the cooker for use with Propane is 085.
Propane requires a smaller jet.

The other burners have similar outcomes. *So it looks like the cooker is
not
incorrectly fitted with jets for use with Propane.
I haven't checked the oven one as that would entail removing the burner
cover that has been tampered with, thus destroying the evidence that I
have
been supplied with a "customer return".

* What does the manual say is the correct orfice?

There is no technical information in the user manual, nor any information on
the manufacturers website.http://www.vha.uk.com/cgi-bin/view_product.cgi?id=4

When I googled this model number, a lot of what we would call
"closeout" or "floor models" show up. Was this sold at a clearance
price? Floor models may have been jostled, and perhaps damaged.

Is it usual for a gas cooker not to have a back? I always worry about
the chance of spills falling down the back. I've seen stoves on the
Continent with hinged lids, that act as a back splash during cooking.



In the UK it is illegal to tamper with gas appliances unless you are
qualified to do so.http://www.gassaferegister.co.uk/pdf...y%20work%20on%...

At least on my old gas stove, I can replace burners and the ducts
leading from the control knobs to the burners. Hooking up appliances
to existing gas valves is well within every homeowner's skill set,
although the utility would like to check your work.

Poking around a little mo Funny that the makers of freestanding
hobs specify the power output of their burners, even boasting of their
high power wok burners.

http://www.appliancesdirect.co.uk/p/...burner-gas-hob

I can't believe that brits are drawn to a brand called "Smeg" however.

On Mon, 6 Aug 2012 10:20:45 -0700 (PDT), spamtrap1888
wrote:

On Aug 6, 8:22*am, spamtrap1888 wrote:
On Aug 5, 4:30*am, "Gareth Magennis"
wrote:


SNIP

Poking around a little mo Funny that the makers of freestanding
hobs specify the power output of their burners, even boasting of their
high power wok burners.

http://www.appliancesdirect.co.uk/p/...burner-gas-hob

I can't believe that brits are drawn to a brand called "Smeg" however.
Why not? After all, many American parents have named their son John -
which IS a slang term for a toilet.

PlainBill

I can't believe that Brits are drawn to a brand
called "Smeg", however.

It's an initialization of "Smalterie Metallurgiche Emiliane Guastalla".

There used to be ads showing a boy delighted at the delivery of a Wurlitzer
musical instrument: "Gee, dad, it's a Wurlizter!".

I can imagine a comparable ad with a girl enthusing about the new kitchen
appliance: "Wow! It's a Smeg, ma!".

In the UK it is illegal to tamper with gas appliances unless you are
qualified to do
so.http://www.gassaferegister.co.uk/pdf...y%20work%20on%...


At least on my old gas stove, I can replace burners and the ducts
leading from the control knobs to the burners. Hooking up appliances
to existing gas valves is well within every homeowner's skill set,
although the utility would like to check your work.



Here's what can happen if you don't do it properly and nobody has checked
your work:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news...ion-gas-944859



The shop sent a fitter today to inspect the cooker - he didn't at first
believe what I was trying to tell him, and was trying to tell me how to
operate a gas oven, but got it in the end.

He had no test equipment with him, but did manage to blow a load of crud
out of the flexible supply tube into his eye.
This made no difference to the performance of the oven, or his eye,
thankfully, and he eventually agreed the appliance is faulty, and I shall be
getting another one.

So, none the wiser, really, as on questioning I soon realised he wasn't
going to be able to diagnose any further than "it's broke, mate".



Gareth.

On Aug 6, 11:33*am, "Gareth Magennis"
wrote:
In the UK it is illegal to tamper with gas appliances unless you are
qualified to do
so.http://www.gassaferegister.co.uk/pdf...y%20work%20on%...

At least on my old gas stove, I can replace burners and the ducts
leading from the control knobs to the burners. Hooking up appliances
to existing gas valves is well within every homeowner's skill set,
although the utility would like to check your work.

Here's what can happen if you don't do it properly and nobody has checked
your work:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news...plosion-gas-94...

Good point, but I have a couple of reservations:

Service and repair requires a much higher skill level than merely
hooking something up.

The story includes far too much of the neighbor's rocky relationship
with his girlfriend, including jail time, for the boiler repair to be
completely unrelated.


The shop sent a fitter today to inspect the cooker - he didn't at first
believe what I was trying to tell him, and was trying to tell me how to
operate a gas oven, but got it in the end.

He had no test equipment with him, *but did manage to blow a load of crud
out of the flexible supply tube into his eye.

Sediment in natural gas is not uncommon in the US. Appliances should
contain a debris trap for the sediment to fall into. Failing that, the
pipe installer should add one in front of the valve.

This made no difference to the performance of the oven, or his eye,
thankfully, and he eventually agreed the appliance is faulty, and I shall be
getting another one.

Good. I hate to pay good money for something that doesn't work 100%.


So, none the wiser, really, as on questioning I soon realised he wasn't
going to be able to diagnose any further than "it's broke, mate".

Is he one of those elite "Gas Safe" fitters?

"spamtrap1888" wrote in message
...
On Aug 6, 8:22 am, spamtrap1888 wrote:
On Aug 5, 4:30 am, "Gareth Magennis"
wrote:









"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in
messagenews:Kf6dnavUqbbwXIDNnZ2dnUVZ_hidnZ2d@earth link.com...

Gareth Magennis wrote:

Ah, think I can answer my own question.
The jet fitted to the 100mm burner is stamped 115. The spare jet
provided
with the cooker for use with Propane is 085.
Propane requires a smaller jet.

The other burners have similar outcomes. So it looks like the
cooker is
not
incorrectly fitted with jets for use with Propane.
I haven't checked the oven one as that would entail removing the
burner
cover that has been tampered with, thus destroying the evidence that
I
have
been supplied with a "customer return".

What does the manual say is the correct orfice?

There is no technical information in the user manual, nor any
information on
the manufacturers
website.http://www.vha.uk.com/cgi-bin/view_product.cgi?id=4

When I googled this model number, a lot of what we would call
"closeout" or "floor models" show up. Was this sold at a clearance
price? Floor models may have been jostled, and perhaps damaged.

Is it usual for a gas cooker not to have a back? I always worry about
the chance of spills falling down the back. I've seen stoves on the
Continent with hinged lids, that act as a back splash during cooking.



In the UK it is illegal to tamper with gas appliances unless you are
qualified to do
so.http://www.gassaferegister.co.uk/pdf...y%20work%20on%...

At least on my old gas stove, I can replace burners and the ducts
leading from the control knobs to the burners. Hooking up appliances
to existing gas valves is well within every homeowner's skill set,
although the utility would like to check your work.

Poking around a little mo Funny that the makers of freestanding
hobs specify the power output of their burners, even boasting of their
high power wok burners.

http://www.appliancesdirect.co.uk/p/...burner-gas-hob

I can't believe that brits are drawn to a brand called "Smeg" however.

I can. We had a car model which translates into '******'

For some odd reason it didn't sell too well in areas where that language is
the norm.

On Mon, 6 Aug 2012 08:22:47 -0700 (PDT), spamtrap1888
wrote:

On Aug 5, 4:30*am, "Gareth Magennis"
wrote:
"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in messagenews:Kf6dnavUqbbwXIDNnZ2dnUVZ_hidnZ2d@earth link.com...


snip

In the UK it is illegal to tamper with gas appliances unless you are
qualified to do so.http://www.gassaferegister.co.uk/pdf...y%20work%20on%....


Do you think there might be a reason for that?

At least on my old gas stove, I can replace burners and the ducts
leading from the control knobs to the burners. Hooking up appliances
to existing gas valves is well within every homeowner's skill set,
although the utility would like to check your work.

Not any more. That is why the regulations changed. Too damn few can be
trusted to plug in an electrical appliance successfully any more.

?-/