Electronics Repair (sci.electronics.repair) Discussion of repairing electronic equipment. Topics include requests for assistance, where to obtain servicing information and parts, techniques for diagnosis and repair, and annecdotes about success, failures and problems.

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Default Poxy lead-free solder (again) ...

God, how I hate the rotten stuff. I've now been caught twice in two weeks
with Sony KSS xxx series lasers. For those who don't know, these lasers (in
common with lots of other makes) are shipped with the laser diode shorted by
a blob of solder across two closely spaced pads on the little pcb that
carries the connector and power pot. You remove this blob once the device is
installed, by just touching your iron tip against it. The solder has always
in the past, just 'flowed' onto the iron tip by surface tension, I guess.
However, all that has changed with lead-free. Because the bloody stuff
'strings', you have to be REALLY careful that a barely visible whisker
hasn't been left across the pads.

If this happens, you're left with a laser that doesn't burn, and hence won't
read discs. The first one last week, was in a Pioneer, and was reasonably
easy to get at, but this morning's one wasted a whole bunch more time,
because the laser was in the depths of a mechanism in a 300 disc 'jukebox'
type player. You can't test without mostly reassembling the mech.

So now, rather than relying on a removal method that just worked, and on
most units could be carried out with the laser in situ and connected, it is
necessary to remove the solder blob with the laser right out so that you can
hold it up to a light to make sure that the gap is completely clear. Which
rather defeats the purpose of having the laser shorted in the first place
....

Arfa

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Arfa Daily wrote in message
...
God, how I hate the rotten stuff. I've now been caught twice in two weeks
with Sony KSS xxx series lasers. For those who don't know, these lasers

(in
common with lots of other makes) are shipped with the laser diode shorted

by
a blob of solder across two closely spaced pads on the little pcb that
carries the connector and power pot. You remove this blob once the device

is
installed, by just touching your iron tip against it. The solder has

always
in the past, just 'flowed' onto the iron tip by surface tension, I guess.
However, all that has changed with lead-free. Because the bloody stuff
'strings', you have to be REALLY careful that a barely visible whisker
hasn't been left across the pads.

If this happens, you're left with a laser that doesn't burn, and hence

won't
read discs. The first one last week, was in a Pioneer, and was reasonably
easy to get at, but this morning's one wasted a whole bunch more time,
because the laser was in the depths of a mechanism in a 300 disc 'jukebox'
type player. You can't test without mostly reassembling the mech.

So now, rather than relying on a removal method that just worked, and on
most units could be carried out with the laser in situ and connected, it

is
necessary to remove the solder blob with the laser right out so that you

can
hold it up to a light to make sure that the gap is completely clear. Which
rather defeats the purpose of having the laser shorted in the first place
...

Arfa


So I suppose the lesson is solder a loose wire link across and remove their
blob , all in good lighting/viewing. Assemble and cut or desolder your wire
fudge bridge after placement.


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On Jul 16, 9:21*am, "N_Cook" wrote:
Arfa Daily wrote in message

...









God, how I hate the rotten stuff. I've now been caught twice in two weeks
with Sony KSS xxx series lasers. For those who don't know, these lasers

(in
common with lots of other makes) are shipped with the laser diode shorted

by
a blob of solder across two closely spaced pads on the little pcb that
carries the connector and power pot. You remove this blob once the device

is
installed, by just touching your iron tip against it. The solder has

always
in the past, just 'flowed' onto the iron tip by surface tension, I guess.
However, all that has changed with lead-free. Because the bloody stuff
'strings', you have to be REALLY careful that a barely visible whisker
hasn't been left across the pads.


If this happens, you're left with a laser that doesn't burn, and hence

won't
read discs. The first one last week, was in a Pioneer, and was reasonably
easy to get at, but this morning's one wasted a whole bunch more time,
because the laser was in the depths of a mechanism in a 300 disc 'jukebox'
type player. You can't test without mostly reassembling the mech.


So now, rather than relying on a removal method that just worked, and on
most units could be carried out with the laser in situ and connected, it

is
necessary to remove the solder blob with the laser right out so that you

can
hold it up to a light to make sure that the gap is completely clear. Which
rather defeats the purpose of having the laser shorted in the first place
...


Arfa


So I suppose the lesson is solder a loose wire link across and remove their
blob , all in good lighting/viewing. Assemble and cut or desolder your wire
fudge bridge after placement.


I was given a small battery powered soldering iron a few years ago as
a gift. It came with a small coil of solder. In the beginning I'd take
it on small jobs with me and I noticed that I could never do a good
soldering job with the thing. Now I've been soldering for over 50
years so I figured it couldn't have been me. The solder wouldn't flow,
it would blob etc. Finally one morning while on the throne having
nothing better to read, I read trough the instructions for the
miserable thing. It seems like the manufacturer had seen fit to
package these things with lead free solder. As soon as I got rid of
the worthless stuff the iron was fine. Thankfully we don't have to
deal with that bull**** here in the US yet but it is getting difficult
to find 60/40 in surplus. I'm certain that one day some misinformed
idiot over here is going to picture a baby chewing on a PC board and
get a whole ****load of money and influence together and lobby
Congress to enact similar laws as the EU has. Then we'll be shaving
the whiskers off our boards too. Lenny
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klem kedidelhopper wrote in message
...
On Jul 16, 9:21 am, "N_Cook" wrote:
Arfa Daily wrote in message

...









God, how I hate the rotten stuff. I've now been caught twice in two

weeks
with Sony KSS xxx series lasers. For those who don't know, these lasers

(in
common with lots of other makes) are shipped with the laser diode

shorted
by
a blob of solder across two closely spaced pads on the little pcb that
carries the connector and power pot. You remove this blob once the

device
is
installed, by just touching your iron tip against it. The solder has

always
in the past, just 'flowed' onto the iron tip by surface tension, I

guess.
However, all that has changed with lead-free. Because the bloody stuff
'strings', you have to be REALLY careful that a barely visible whisker
hasn't been left across the pads.


If this happens, you're left with a laser that doesn't burn, and hence

won't
read discs. The first one last week, was in a Pioneer, and was

reasonably
easy to get at, but this morning's one wasted a whole bunch more time,
because the laser was in the depths of a mechanism in a 300 disc

'jukebox'
type player. You can't test without mostly reassembling the mech.


So now, rather than relying on a removal method that just worked, and on
most units could be carried out with the laser in situ and connected, it

is
necessary to remove the solder blob with the laser right out so that you

can
hold it up to a light to make sure that the gap is completely clear.

Which
rather defeats the purpose of having the laser shorted in the first

place
...


Arfa


So I suppose the lesson is solder a loose wire link across and remove

their
blob , all in good lighting/viewing. Assemble and cut or desolder your

wire
fudge bridge after placement.


I was given a small battery powered soldering iron a few years ago as
a gift. It came with a small coil of solder. In the beginning I'd take
it on small jobs with me and I noticed that I could never do a good
soldering job with the thing. Now I've been soldering for over 50
years so I figured it couldn't have been me. The solder wouldn't flow,
it would blob etc. Finally one morning while on the throne having
nothing better to read, I read trough the instructions for the
miserable thing. It seems like the manufacturer had seen fit to
package these things with lead free solder. As soon as I got rid of
the worthless stuff the iron was fine. Thankfully we don't have to
deal with that bull**** here in the US yet but it is getting difficult
to find 60/40 in surplus. I'm certain that one day some misinformed
idiot over here is going to picture a baby chewing on a PC board and
get a whole ****load of money and influence together and lobby
Congress to enact similar laws as the EU has. Then we'll be shaving
the whiskers off our boards too. Lenny

+++++

So how many genuine American manufactures are there ? That is use
leaded-solder tinned components as well as leaded solder for assembly?
There is only one production line type used in China , Taiwan etc these days
, they had to go with Europe , the biggest market, 6 years ago and is now
all PbF (outside of derogated industry enduse ).
I suspect any genuine USA manufacturing, outside of the derogated
aerospace/medical/defense/nuclear industries, using proper solder, is in the
range 0 to 5 percent

Just because "American" equipment is not marked with PbF or RoHS etc , does
not mean there is not PbF inside. Do some basic physical tests on the solder
, along with researching the UL E-number on the boards will likely show its
from the orient .


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"N_Cook" wrote in message ...

Arfa Daily wrote in message
...
God, how I hate the rotten stuff. I've now been caught twice in two weeks
with Sony KSS xxx series lasers. For those who don't know, these lasers

(in
common with lots of other makes) are shipped with the laser diode shorted

by
a blob of solder across two closely spaced pads on the little pcb that
carries the connector and power pot. You remove this blob once the device

is
installed, by just touching your iron tip against it. The solder has

always
in the past, just 'flowed' onto the iron tip by surface tension, I guess.
However, all that has changed with lead-free. Because the bloody stuff
'strings', you have to be REALLY careful that a barely visible whisker
hasn't been left across the pads.

If this happens, you're left with a laser that doesn't burn, and hence

won't
read discs. The first one last week, was in a Pioneer, and was reasonably
easy to get at, but this morning's one wasted a whole bunch more time,
because the laser was in the depths of a mechanism in a 300 disc 'jukebox'
type player. You can't test without mostly reassembling the mech.

So now, rather than relying on a removal method that just worked, and on
most units could be carried out with the laser in situ and connected, it

is
necessary to remove the solder blob with the laser right out so that you

can
hold it up to a light to make sure that the gap is completely clear. Which
rather defeats the purpose of having the laser shorted in the first place
...

Arfa


So I suppose the lesson is solder a loose wire link across and remove their
blob , all in good lighting/viewing. Assemble and cut or desolder your wire
fudge bridge after placement.

***Pretty much what I was thinking - maybe a loop of that thin Kynar
"kludge" wire that you can wiggle off once the laser is safely in. Maybe a
strip of thick black anti-static bag & a paper clip on the end of the
flexiprint between the blob coming off & the link going on.



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"Ian Field" wrote in message
...


"N_Cook" wrote in message ...

Arfa Daily wrote in message
...
God, how I hate the rotten stuff. I've now been caught twice in two weeks
with Sony KSS xxx series lasers. For those who don't know, these lasers

(in
common with lots of other makes) are shipped with the laser diode shorted

by
a blob of solder across two closely spaced pads on the little pcb that
carries the connector and power pot. You remove this blob once the device

is
installed, by just touching your iron tip against it. The solder has

always
in the past, just 'flowed' onto the iron tip by surface tension, I guess.
However, all that has changed with lead-free. Because the bloody stuff
'strings', you have to be REALLY careful that a barely visible whisker
hasn't been left across the pads.

If this happens, you're left with a laser that doesn't burn, and hence

won't
read discs. The first one last week, was in a Pioneer, and was reasonably
easy to get at, but this morning's one wasted a whole bunch more time,
because the laser was in the depths of a mechanism in a 300 disc
'jukebox'
type player. You can't test without mostly reassembling the mech.

So now, rather than relying on a removal method that just worked, and on
most units could be carried out with the laser in situ and connected, it

is
necessary to remove the solder blob with the laser right out so that you

can
hold it up to a light to make sure that the gap is completely clear.
Which
rather defeats the purpose of having the laser shorted in the first place
...

Arfa


So I suppose the lesson is solder a loose wire link across and remove
their
blob , all in good lighting/viewing. Assemble and cut or desolder your
wire
fudge bridge after placement.

***Pretty much what I was thinking - maybe a loop of that thin Kynar
"kludge" wire that you can wiggle off once the laser is safely in. Maybe a
strip of thick black anti-static bag & a paper clip on the end of the
flexiprint between the blob coming off & the link going on.


Yes, all valid suggestions, but what ****es me off is that you have to start
coming up with this crap in order to make what was a perfectly suitable
system work again, now that they've changed over to this useless,
not-fit-for-purpose electric glue ... :-(

Arfa

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"Arfa Daily" wrote in message news


"Ian Field" wrote in message
...


"N_Cook" wrote in message ...

Arfa Daily wrote in message
...
God, how I hate the rotten stuff. I've now been caught twice in two weeks
with Sony KSS xxx series lasers. For those who don't know, these lasers

(in
common with lots of other makes) are shipped with the laser diode shorted

by
a blob of solder across two closely spaced pads on the little pcb that
carries the connector and power pot. You remove this blob once the device

is
installed, by just touching your iron tip against it. The solder has

always
in the past, just 'flowed' onto the iron tip by surface tension, I guess.
However, all that has changed with lead-free. Because the bloody stuff
'strings', you have to be REALLY careful that a barely visible whisker
hasn't been left across the pads.

If this happens, you're left with a laser that doesn't burn, and hence

won't
read discs. The first one last week, was in a Pioneer, and was reasonably
easy to get at, but this morning's one wasted a whole bunch more time,
because the laser was in the depths of a mechanism in a 300 disc
'jukebox'
type player. You can't test without mostly reassembling the mech.

So now, rather than relying on a removal method that just worked, and on
most units could be carried out with the laser in situ and connected, it

is
necessary to remove the solder blob with the laser right out so that you

can
hold it up to a light to make sure that the gap is completely clear.
Which
rather defeats the purpose of having the laser shorted in the first place
...

Arfa


So I suppose the lesson is solder a loose wire link across and remove
their
blob , all in good lighting/viewing. Assemble and cut or desolder your
wire
fudge bridge after placement.

***Pretty much what I was thinking - maybe a loop of that thin Kynar
"kludge" wire that you can wiggle off once the laser is safely in. Maybe a
strip of thick black anti-static bag & a paper clip on the end of the
flexiprint between the blob coming off & the link going on.


Yes, all valid suggestions, but what ****es me off is that you have to start
coming up with this crap in order to make what was a perfectly suitable
system work again, now that they've changed over to this useless,
not-fit-for-purpose electric glue ... :-(

Arfa

***Just remembered an amusing anecdote: One of the home computer firms in
the 80's (might have been Sinclair?) quit doing home build kits after
someone returned a kit to their service dept, all the components very neatly
assembled into the PCB - and secured with polystyrene cement!

***I'd put money on it being one of the Brussels suits behind the RoHS
directive.

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"Ian Field" wrote in message
...


"Arfa Daily" wrote in message news


"Ian Field" wrote in message
...


"N_Cook" wrote in message ...

Arfa Daily wrote in message
...
God, how I hate the rotten stuff. I've now been caught twice in two
weeks
with Sony KSS xxx series lasers. For those who don't know, these lasers

(in
common with lots of other makes) are shipped with the laser diode
shorted

by
a blob of solder across two closely spaced pads on the little pcb that
carries the connector and power pot. You remove this blob once the
device

is
installed, by just touching your iron tip against it. The solder has

always
in the past, just 'flowed' onto the iron tip by surface tension, I
guess.
However, all that has changed with lead-free. Because the bloody stuff
'strings', you have to be REALLY careful that a barely visible whisker
hasn't been left across the pads.

If this happens, you're left with a laser that doesn't burn, and hence

won't
read discs. The first one last week, was in a Pioneer, and was
reasonably
easy to get at, but this morning's one wasted a whole bunch more time,
because the laser was in the depths of a mechanism in a 300 disc
'jukebox'
type player. You can't test without mostly reassembling the mech.

So now, rather than relying on a removal method that just worked, and on
most units could be carried out with the laser in situ and connected, it

is
necessary to remove the solder blob with the laser right out so that you

can
hold it up to a light to make sure that the gap is completely clear.
Which
rather defeats the purpose of having the laser shorted in the first
place
...

Arfa


So I suppose the lesson is solder a loose wire link across and remove
their
blob , all in good lighting/viewing. Assemble and cut or desolder your
wire
fudge bridge after placement.

***Pretty much what I was thinking - maybe a loop of that thin Kynar
"kludge" wire that you can wiggle off once the laser is safely in. Maybe
a strip of thick black anti-static bag & a paper clip on the end of the
flexiprint between the blob coming off & the link going on.


Yes, all valid suggestions, but what ****es me off is that you have to
start
coming up with this crap in order to make what was a perfectly suitable
system work again, now that they've changed over to this useless,
not-fit-for-purpose electric glue ... :-(

Arfa

***Just remembered an amusing anecdote: One of the home computer firms in
the 80's (might have been Sinclair?) quit doing home build kits after
someone returned a kit to their service dept, all the components very
neatly assembled into the PCB - and secured with polystyrene cement!

***I'd put money on it being one of the Brussels suits behind the RoHS
directive.


ROTFLMAO !!!!

Arfa

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Default Poxy lead-free solder (again) ...

On Jul 22, 7:30*pm, "Arfa Daily" wrote:
"Ian Field" wrote in message

...











"Arfa Daily" *wrote in messagenews


"Ian Field" wrote in message
...


"N_Cook" *wrote in ...


Arfa Daily wrote in message
...
God, how I hate the rotten stuff. I've now been caught twice in two
weeks
with Sony KSS xxx series lasers. For those who don't know, these lasers
(in
common with lots of other makes) are shipped with the laser diode
shorted
by
a blob of solder across two closely spaced pads on the little pcb that
carries the connector and power pot. You remove this blob once the
device
is
installed, by just touching your iron tip against it. The solder has
always
in the past, just 'flowed' onto the iron tip by surface tension, I
guess.
However, all that has changed with lead-free. Because the bloody stuff
'strings', you have to be REALLY careful that a barely visible whisker
hasn't been left across the pads.


If this happens, you're left with a laser that doesn't burn, and hence
won't
read discs. The first one last week, was in a Pioneer, and was
reasonably
easy to get at, but this morning's one wasted a whole bunch more time,
because the laser was in the depths of a mechanism in a 300 disc
'jukebox'
type player. You can't test without mostly reassembling the mech.


So now, rather than relying on a removal method that just worked, and on
most units could be carried out with the laser in situ and connected, it
is
necessary to remove the solder blob with the laser right out so that you
can
hold it up to a light to make sure that the gap is completely clear.
Which
rather defeats the purpose of having the laser shorted in the first
place
...


Arfa


So I suppose the lesson is solder a loose wire link across and remove
their
blob , all in good lighting/viewing. Assemble and cut or desolder your
wire
fudge bridge after placement.


***Pretty much what I was thinking - maybe a loop of that thin Kynar
"kludge" wire that you can wiggle off once the laser is safely in. Maybe
a strip of thick black anti-static bag & a paper clip on the end of the
flexiprint between the blob coming off & the link going on.


Yes, all valid suggestions, but what ****es me off is that you have to
start
coming up with this crap in order to make what was a perfectly suitable
system work again, now that they've changed over to this useless,
not-fit-for-purpose electric glue ... * *:-(


Arfa


***Just remembered an amusing anecdote: One of the home computer firms in
the 80's (might have been Sinclair?) quit doing home build kits after
someone returned a kit to their service dept, all the components very
neatly assembled into the PCB - and secured with polystyrene cement!


***I'd put money on it being one of the Brussels suits behind the RoHS
directive.


ROTFLMAO !!!!

Arfa


Cement!!!
Some people should not be allowed to operate a door bell. Idiocy has
no bounds. Lenny
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Default Poxy lead-free solder (again) ...



"klem kedidelhopper" wrote in message
...
On Jul 22, 7:30 pm, "Arfa Daily" wrote:
"Ian Field" wrote in message

...











"Arfa Daily" wrote in messagenews


"Ian Field" wrote in message
...


"N_Cook" wrote in ...


Arfa Daily wrote in message
...
God, how I hate the rotten stuff. I've now been caught twice in two
weeks
with Sony KSS xxx series lasers. For those who don't know, these
lasers
(in
common with lots of other makes) are shipped with the laser diode
shorted
by
a blob of solder across two closely spaced pads on the little pcb
that
carries the connector and power pot. You remove this blob once the
device
is
installed, by just touching your iron tip against it. The solder has
always
in the past, just 'flowed' onto the iron tip by surface tension, I
guess.
However, all that has changed with lead-free. Because the bloody
stuff
'strings', you have to be REALLY careful that a barely visible
whisker
hasn't been left across the pads.


If this happens, you're left with a laser that doesn't burn, and
hence
won't
read discs. The first one last week, was in a Pioneer, and was
reasonably
easy to get at, but this morning's one wasted a whole bunch more
time,
because the laser was in the depths of a mechanism in a 300 disc
'jukebox'
type player. You can't test without mostly reassembling the mech.


So now, rather than relying on a removal method that just worked, and
on
most units could be carried out with the laser in situ and connected,
it
is
necessary to remove the solder blob with the laser right out so that
you
can
hold it up to a light to make sure that the gap is completely clear.
Which
rather defeats the purpose of having the laser shorted in the first
place
...


Arfa


So I suppose the lesson is solder a loose wire link across and remove
their
blob , all in good lighting/viewing. Assemble and cut or desolder your
wire
fudge bridge after placement.


***Pretty much what I was thinking - maybe a loop of that thin Kynar
"kludge" wire that you can wiggle off once the laser is safely in.
Maybe
a strip of thick black anti-static bag & a paper clip on the end of
the
flexiprint between the blob coming off & the link going on.


Yes, all valid suggestions, but what ****es me off is that you have to
start
coming up with this crap in order to make what was a perfectly suitable
system work again, now that they've changed over to this useless,
not-fit-for-purpose electric glue ... :-(


Arfa


***Just remembered an amusing anecdote: One of the home computer firms
in
the 80's (might have been Sinclair?) quit doing home build kits after
someone returned a kit to their service dept, all the components very
neatly assembled into the PCB - and secured with polystyrene cement!


***I'd put money on it being one of the Brussels suits behind the RoHS
directive.


ROTFLMAO !!!!

Arfa


Cement!!!
Some people should not be allowed to operate a door bell. Idiocy has
no bounds. Lenny


Polystyrene cement - AKA; Airfix glue.



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On Jul 28, 1:40*pm, Terry Casey wrote:
In article ,
says...



***Just remembered an amusing anecdote: One of the home computer firms in
the 80's (might have been Sinclair?) quit doing home build kits after
someone returned a kit to their service dept, all the components very neatly
assembled into the PCB - and secured with polystyrene cement!


I saw one once! It was a transistor radio kit - a bit before the days of
personal computers - which had been put together with Solderlene* - sold
as liquid cold solder!

Basically, polystyrene cement with silver colouring added ...!

*It's still around!

http://www.alcolin.com/diy-products/...sed/solderlene

I don't think the tubes said anything about being non conductive in
those days, though!

--

Terry


We have JB Weld in the US. I wonder if it's a similar product. I've
heard of people plugging holes in gas tanks with this stuff. Lenny
http://jbweld.net/index.php
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"klem kedidelhopper" wrote in message
...
On Jul 28, 1:40 pm, Terry Casey wrote:
In article ,
says...



***Just remembered an amusing anecdote: One of the home computer firms
in
the 80's (might have been Sinclair?) quit doing home build kits after
someone returned a kit to their service dept, all the components very
neatly
assembled into the PCB - and secured with polystyrene cement!


I saw one once! It was a transistor radio kit - a bit before the days of
personal computers - which had been put together with Solderlene* - sold
as liquid cold solder!

Basically, polystyrene cement with silver colouring added ...!

*It's still around!

http://www.alcolin.com/diy-products/...sed/solderlene

I don't think the tubes said anything about being non conductive in
those days, though!



Someone on a motorcycle group has claimed that Blu-tack sets rock hard in
contact with petrol, and as such makes a good repair putty for fuel tanks.

I've made no attempt to test this theory - any experiments along these lines
are entirely at your own risk!

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On Sat, 21 Jul 2012 13:27:50 -0700 (PDT), klem kedidelhopper
wrote:

On Jul 16, 9:21*am, "N_Cook" wrote:
Arfa Daily wrote in message

...









God, how I hate the rotten stuff. I've now been caught twice in two weeks
with Sony KSS xxx series lasers. For those who don't know, these lasers

(in
common with lots of other makes) are shipped with the laser diode shorted

by
a blob of solder across two closely spaced pads on the little pcb that
carries the connector and power pot. You remove this blob once the device

is
installed, by just touching your iron tip against it. The solder has

always
in the past, just 'flowed' onto the iron tip by surface tension, I guess.
However, all that has changed with lead-free. Because the bloody stuff
'strings', you have to be REALLY careful that a barely visible whisker
hasn't been left across the pads.


If this happens, you're left with a laser that doesn't burn, and hence

won't
read discs. The first one last week, was in a Pioneer, and was reasonably
easy to get at, but this morning's one wasted a whole bunch more time,
because the laser was in the depths of a mechanism in a 300 disc 'jukebox'
type player. You can't test without mostly reassembling the mech.


So now, rather than relying on a removal method that just worked, and on
most units could be carried out with the laser in situ and connected, it

is
necessary to remove the solder blob with the laser right out so that you

can
hold it up to a light to make sure that the gap is completely clear. Which
rather defeats the purpose of having the laser shorted in the first place
...


Arfa


So I suppose the lesson is solder a loose wire link across and remove their
blob , all in good lighting/viewing. Assemble and cut or desolder your wire
fudge bridge after placement.


I was given a small battery powered soldering iron a few years ago as
a gift. It came with a small coil of solder. In the beginning I'd take
it on small jobs with me and I noticed that I could never do a good
soldering job with the thing. Now I've been soldering for over 50
years so I figured it couldn't have been me. The solder wouldn't flow,
it would blob etc. Finally one morning while on the throne having
nothing better to read, I read trough the instructions for the
miserable thing. It seems like the manufacturer had seen fit to
package these things with lead free solder. As soon as I got rid of
the worthless stuff the iron was fine. Thankfully we don't have to
deal with that bull**** here in the US yet but it is getting difficult
to find 60/40 in surplus. I'm certain that one day some misinformed
idiot over here is going to picture a baby chewing on a PC board and
get a whole ****load of money and influence together and lobby
Congress to enact similar laws as the EU has. Then we'll be shaving
the whiskers off our boards too. Lenny

I wonder just how much of a problem lead bearing solder used in
electronic devices is compared to the lead that used to be in paint
and gasoline? In the July 28th issue of Science News there is an
article about California Condors ingesting lead from animals killed by
being shot with lead bullets or shot. According to the article the
condors are being poisoned by the lead and it has such a deleterious
effect on the condors that without human care the condors would die
out. Their population is not self sustaining without human
intervention because of the lead. And there is plenty of evidence that
lead in gasoline and lead bearing paint has caused neurogical damage,
among other health problems, in children. Banning leaded gasoline and
lead bearing paint has shown a marked decrease in neurological
deficits in children typically exposed to lead in the past. Even so,
how much of a problem is lead in electronic devices? Would we be
better off with some type of legislation that requires electronic
devices to be accepted by retailers for recycling? Maybe by putting a
deposit on electronic devices that is refunded when the device is
replaced?
Eric
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wrote in message
...
On Sat, 21 Jul 2012 13:27:50 -0700 (PDT), klem kedidelhopper
wrote:

On Jul 16, 9:21 am, "N_Cook" wrote:
Arfa Daily wrote in message

...









God, how I hate the rotten stuff. I've now been caught twice in two

weeks
with Sony KSS xxx series lasers. For those who don't know, these

lasers
(in
common with lots of other makes) are shipped with the laser diode

shorted
by
a blob of solder across two closely spaced pads on the little pcb

that
carries the connector and power pot. You remove this blob once the

device
is
installed, by just touching your iron tip against it. The solder has
always
in the past, just 'flowed' onto the iron tip by surface tension, I

guess.
However, all that has changed with lead-free. Because the bloody

stuff
'strings', you have to be REALLY careful that a barely visible

whisker
hasn't been left across the pads.

If this happens, you're left with a laser that doesn't burn, and

hence
won't
read discs. The first one last week, was in a Pioneer, and was

reasonably
easy to get at, but this morning's one wasted a whole bunch more

time,
because the laser was in the depths of a mechanism in a 300 disc

'jukebox'
type player. You can't test without mostly reassembling the mech.

So now, rather than relying on a removal method that just worked, and

on
most units could be carried out with the laser in situ and connected,

it
is
necessary to remove the solder blob with the laser right out so that

you
can
hold it up to a light to make sure that the gap is completely clear.

Which
rather defeats the purpose of having the laser shorted in the first

place
...

Arfa

So I suppose the lesson is solder a loose wire link across and remove

their
blob , all in good lighting/viewing. Assemble and cut or desolder your

wire
fudge bridge after placement.


I was given a small battery powered soldering iron a few years ago as
a gift. It came with a small coil of solder. In the beginning I'd take
it on small jobs with me and I noticed that I could never do a good
soldering job with the thing. Now I've been soldering for over 50
years so I figured it couldn't have been me. The solder wouldn't flow,
it would blob etc. Finally one morning while on the throne having
nothing better to read, I read trough the instructions for the
miserable thing. It seems like the manufacturer had seen fit to
package these things with lead free solder. As soon as I got rid of
the worthless stuff the iron was fine. Thankfully we don't have to
deal with that bull**** here in the US yet but it is getting difficult
to find 60/40 in surplus. I'm certain that one day some misinformed
idiot over here is going to picture a baby chewing on a PC board and
get a whole ****load of money and influence together and lobby
Congress to enact similar laws as the EU has. Then we'll be shaving
the whiskers off our boards too. Lenny

I wonder just how much of a problem lead bearing solder used in
electronic devices is compared to the lead that used to be in paint
and gasoline? In the July 28th issue of Science News there is an
article about California Condors ingesting lead from animals killed by
being shot with lead bullets or shot. According to the article the
condors are being poisoned by the lead and it has such a deleterious
effect on the condors that without human care the condors would die
out. Their population is not self sustaining without human
intervention because of the lead. And there is plenty of evidence that
lead in gasoline and lead bearing paint has caused neurogical damage,
among other health problems, in children. Banning leaded gasoline and
lead bearing paint has shown a marked decrease in neurological
deficits in children typically exposed to lead in the past. Even so,
how much of a problem is lead in electronic devices? Would we be
better off with some type of legislation that requires electronic
devices to be accepted by retailers for recycling? Maybe by putting a
deposit on electronic devices that is refunded when the device is
replaced?
Eric


It hinges on what you mean by "recycling"
Fashions and technology-advance mean zero recycling of components.
Substantial single-type metalwork is separated and recycled , the rest is
sent exceedingly cheaply in otherwise empty conntainers to Asia where it is
burnt and residual metal extracted from the cremulators.

Gizard anatomy birds like swans , have much improved health since the
banning of lead fishing weights in the UK. Birds shot with lead or
lead-substitute are still dead , so no health improvement there.




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snip

I wonder just how much of a problem lead bearing solder used in
electronic devices is compared to the lead that used to be in paint
and gasoline? In the July 28th issue of Science News there is an
article about California Condors ingesting lead from animals killed by
being shot with lead bullets or shot. According to the article the
condors are being poisoned by the lead and it has such a deleterious
effect on the condors that without human care the condors would die
out. Their population is not self sustaining without human
intervention because of the lead. And there is plenty of evidence that
lead in gasoline and lead bearing paint has caused neurogical damage,
among other health problems, in children. Banning leaded gasoline and
lead bearing paint has shown a marked decrease in neurological
deficits in children typically exposed to lead in the past. Even so,
how much of a problem is lead in electronic devices? Would we be
better off with some type of legislation that requires electronic
devices to be accepted by retailers for recycling? Maybe by putting a
deposit on electronic devices that is refunded when the device is
replaced?
Eric


Removal of lead from gasoline and paint, were valid exercises, as the lead
from the gasoline fumes was easily ingested, and the lead from paint could
find its way into the environment in an ingestible form, reasonably easily.
However, solder appears to have gotten itself hitched to these campaigns,
merely by association. It was, as far as I can tell, another example of
hysteria that surrounds the eco-bollox movement, and any perceived
detrimental effects of lead being in solder, have been hugely exaggerated,
and are largely without foundation.

Tin and lead is a stable compound, and the lead does not wash out of it in
water. Pure lead is not soluble in water. There was talk of it being a huge
problem with electronic items in landfill, having the lead 'leeched out' of
the solder by ground water, but there seems to be little evidence that this
ever did, or could occur, without the rain being extremely acidic, and that
situation hasn't existed for years since industrial airborne pollutants were
legislated against in most of the civilised world.

For some years now, EU countries have had the Waste Electrical and
Electronic Equipment (WEEE) directive in place, and this ensures that all
electronic equipment is 'recycled' in some form. As Nigel says in his posted
reply, this does not actually ensure that much in the way of 'true'
recycling is done, but as all of the equipment now *has* to find its way
back into the system, paid for by the manufacturer as a levy on his sales,
then it *could* be. It would not be that hard to re-extract the lead, if
possibly a little more costly.

Everyone at the sharp end knows, in truth, that lead-free solder is pretty
useless stuff. Like eco-bollox lightbulbs, it's not a replacement
technology, it's a substitute one. It has caused both the electronic
manufacturing and repair industries huge problems in the requirement to
change equipment and processes, and in increased energy useage, And for what
? To address a 'problem' that wasn't there in the first place. Aside from
the manufacturing and service problems it has caused, I would contend that
it has almost certainly resulted in a far larger quantity of consumer
electronic equipment being life-ended earlier than would have previously
been the case, due to bad joint-related failures that are not worth getting
repaired, because it's cheaper to just buy a replacement piece of Chinese
junk from the nearest shed or supermarket. This has the knock-on effect of
being hugely wasteful of resources and energy, which is a far greater
overall problem to the well-being of fauna on this planet, than lead in
solder ever was ...

You might want to consider why in any areas where equipment is likely to be
used to preserve human life - e.g. avionics, medical, military - such
equipment is exempt from the lead-free solder manufacturing requirement,
that non-critical equipment has to abide by.

Arfa

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wrote in message
...
On Sat, 21 Jul 2012 13:27:50 -0700 (PDT), klem kedidelhopper
wrote:

On Jul 16, 9:21 am, "N_Cook" wrote:
Arfa Daily wrote in message

...









God, how I hate the rotten stuff. I've now been caught twice in two
weeks
with Sony KSS xxx series lasers. For those who don't know, these
lasers
(in
common with lots of other makes) are shipped with the laser diode
shorted
by
a blob of solder across two closely spaced pads on the little pcb that
carries the connector and power pot. You remove this blob once the
device
is
installed, by just touching your iron tip against it. The solder has
always
in the past, just 'flowed' onto the iron tip by surface tension, I
guess.
However, all that has changed with lead-free. Because the bloody stuff
'strings', you have to be REALLY careful that a barely visible whisker
hasn't been left across the pads.

If this happens, you're left with a laser that doesn't burn, and hence
won't
read discs. The first one last week, was in a Pioneer, and was
reasonably
easy to get at, but this morning's one wasted a whole bunch more time,
because the laser was in the depths of a mechanism in a 300 disc
'jukebox'
type player. You can't test without mostly reassembling the mech.

So now, rather than relying on a removal method that just worked, and
on
most units could be carried out with the laser in situ and connected,
it
is
necessary to remove the solder blob with the laser right out so that
you
can
hold it up to a light to make sure that the gap is completely clear.
Which
rather defeats the purpose of having the laser shorted in the first
place
...

Arfa

So I suppose the lesson is solder a loose wire link across and remove
their
blob , all in good lighting/viewing. Assemble and cut or desolder your
wire
fudge bridge after placement.


I was given a small battery powered soldering iron a few years ago as
a gift. It came with a small coil of solder. In the beginning I'd take
it on small jobs with me and I noticed that I could never do a good
soldering job with the thing. Now I've been soldering for over 50
years so I figured it couldn't have been me. The solder wouldn't flow,
it would blob etc. Finally one morning while on the throne having
nothing better to read, I read trough the instructions for the
miserable thing. It seems like the manufacturer had seen fit to
package these things with lead free solder. As soon as I got rid of
the worthless stuff the iron was fine. Thankfully we don't have to
deal with that bull**** here in the US yet but it is getting difficult
to find 60/40 in surplus. I'm certain that one day some misinformed
idiot over here is going to picture a baby chewing on a PC board and
get a whole ****load of money and influence together and lobby
Congress to enact similar laws as the EU has. Then we'll be shaving
the whiskers off our boards too. Lenny

I wonder just how much of a problem lead bearing solder used in
electronic devices is compared to the lead that used to be in paint
and gasoline?


I don't remember off hand the figures for petrochem industry for annual lead
procurement, but it was truly staggering!!!

Many thousands of tons of lead converted to tetra-ethyl-lead and added to
petrol and ultimately dispersed into the atmosphere as particulates.

Lead-solder is a relatively stable alloy (except at extremes of temperature)
that is ultimately safer than the raw lead & its ores/oxides mined out of
the ground in the first place.

The brussels suits truly are the ultimate in dumbass ****wits!!!

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Ian Field wrote:

The brussels suits truly are the ultimate in dumbass ****wits!!!



They should have been put in charge of the Olymics.
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In article ,
wrote:
On Sat, 21 Jul 2012 13:27:50 -0700 (PDT), klem kedidelhopper
wrote:

....
Thankfully we don't have to
deal with that bull**** here in the US yet but it is getting difficult
to find 60/40 in surplus. I'm certain that one day some misinformed
idiot over here is going to picture a baby chewing on a PC board and
get a whole ****load of money and influence together and lobby
Congress to enact similar laws as the EU has. Then we'll be shaving
the whiskers off our boards too. Lenny


I wonder just how much of a problem lead bearing solder used in
electronic devices is compared to the lead that used to be in paint
and gasoline?

....
Banning leaded gasoline and
lead bearing paint has shown a marked decrease in neurological
deficits in children typically exposed to lead in the past. Even so,
how much of a problem is lead in electronic devices? Would we be
better off with some type of legislation that requires electronic
devices to be accepted by retailers for recycling? Maybe by putting a
deposit on electronic devices that is refunded when the device is
replaced?


Back about 20 years ago, I was a regular reader of Forbes, Fortune,
Business Week. There was a battle going on, at least in their pages,
between recycling and the garbage incinerators. (Incinerators are a
much bigger thing in Europe and Japan than in the US).

The companies that built the garbage burners, and the companies that use
these burners to generate electric power are some of the main movers for
"getting the lead out". Before the days of recycling industry and its
high tech garbage sorting, that was seen as the cheaper way to reduce
their air pollution problem. And they had the money to lobby (or buy off)
the bureaucrats.

So after a couple of decades, it's been institutionalized in the EU
bureaucracy, and picked up by the greens, too. So it will probably
live on, even if a better recycling scheme would make lead free
electronics unnecessary.

Mark Zenier
Googleproofaddress(account:mzenier provider:eskimo domain:com)

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On Sunday, July 29, 2012 3:30:06 AM UTC-7, Arfa Daily wrote:
snip



I wonder just how much of a problem lead bearing solder used in


electronic devices is ...


Tin and lead is a stable compound, and the lead does not wash out of it in

water. Pure lead is not soluble in water.


Not in pure water, maybe, but organic acids (acetic acid) attack lead
and you can't have decomposition of organics in contact with lead in a landfill,
without some leaching.


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On 08/03/2012 04:24 AM, whit3rd wrote:
On Sunday, July 29, 2012 3:30:06 AM UTC-7, Arfa Daily wrote:
snip



I wonder just how much of a problem lead bearing solder used in


electronic devices is ...


Tin and lead is a stable compound, and the lead does not wash out of it in

water. Pure lead is not soluble in water.


Not in pure water, maybe, but organic acids (acetic acid) attack lead
and you can't have decomposition of organics in contact with lead in a landfill,
without some leaching.


Which goes nowhere at all. Landfills are lined with very thick clay
layers, and even if they weren't, heavy metals don't go anywhere in
ground water at earth-surface normal temperatures. See the Oklo natural
reactor in Gabon. It was sitting right there in an aquifer, and
operated on and off for half a million years. The fission products
went something like 1 mile in well over 1 billion years.

The ROHS rationale was to protect the health of folks doing recycling.
To save some gloves and respirators, they created a monster. Typical
Eurocrat BS.


Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics

160 North State Road #203
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510
845-480-2058

hobbs at electrooptical dot net
http://electrooptical.net
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The ROHS rationale was to protect the health of folks
doing recycling.


That's only part of it. It's supposedly true that rain (and other solvents)
leech lead from electronic equipment, and it winds up in drinking water.


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"William Sommerwerck" wrote in message
...
The ROHS rationale was to protect the health of folks
doing recycling.


That's only part of it. It's supposedly true that rain (and other
solvents)
leech lead from electronic equipment, and it winds up in drinking water.



Therein lies an example of why we have the RoHS BS.

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The ROHS rationale was to protect the health of folks
doing recycling.


That's only part of it. It's supposedly true that rain (and
other solvents) leech lead from electronic equipment,
and it winds up in drinking water.


Therein lies an example of why we have the RoHS BS.


It's not BS if it's true.

I have never seen conclusive evidence one way or another. From my
perspective, the real issue is the huge piles of electronic trash generated
every year. If these were properly recycled and/or disposed of, there
probably wouldn't be an issue with lead.


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"William Sommerwerck" wrote in message
...
The ROHS rationale was to protect the health of folks
doing recycling.


That's only part of it. It's supposedly true that rain (and
other solvents) leech lead from electronic equipment,
and it winds up in drinking water.


Therein lies an example of why we have the RoHS BS.


It's not BS if it's true.

I have never seen conclusive evidence one way or another. From my
perspective, the real issue is the huge piles of electronic trash
generated
every year. If these were properly recycled and/or disposed of, there
probably wouldn't be an issue with lead.


Europe has the WEEE directive to deal with waste electronics equipment - but
the recycling facilities are being overstretched due to the increased volume
of scrap caused by low life expectancy lead free solder.



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"tm" wrote in message
...

"William Sommerwerck" wrote in message
...
The ROHS rationale was to protect the health of folks
doing recycling.


That's only part of it. It's supposedly true that rain (and other
solvents)
leech lead from electronic equipment, and it winds up in drinking water.



Therein lies an example of why we have the RoHS BS.


But lead was mined out of the ground in the first place!

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"Phil Hobbs" wrote in message
m...
On 08/03/2012 04:24 AM, whit3rd wrote:
On Sunday, July 29, 2012 3:30:06 AM UTC-7, Arfa Daily wrote:
snip



I wonder just how much of a problem lead bearing solder used in

electronic devices is ...

Tin and lead is a stable compound, and the lead does not wash out of it
in

water. Pure lead is not soluble in water.


Not in pure water, maybe, but organic acids (acetic acid) attack lead
and you can't have decomposition of organics in contact with lead in a
landfill,
without some leaching.


Which goes nowhere at all. Landfills are lined with very thick clay
layers, and even if they weren't, heavy metals don't go anywhere in ground
water at earth-surface normal temperatures. See the Oklo natural reactor
in Gabon. It was sitting right there in an aquifer, and operated on and
off for half a million years. The fission products went something like 1
mile in well over 1 billion years.

The ROHS rationale was to protect the health of folks doing recycling. To
save some gloves and respirators, they created a monster. Typical
Eurocrat BS.


Cheers

Phil Hobbs


Succinct analysis ...

Arfa

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"Ian Field" wrote in message
...


"William Sommerwerck" wrote in message
...
The ROHS rationale was to protect the health of folks
doing recycling.


That's only part of it. It's supposedly true that rain (and
other solvents) leech lead from electronic equipment,
and it winds up in drinking water.


Therein lies an example of why we have the RoHS BS.


It's not BS if it's true.

I have never seen conclusive evidence one way or another. From my
perspective, the real issue is the huge piles of electronic trash
generated
every year. If these were properly recycled and/or disposed of, there
probably wouldn't be an issue with lead.


Europe has the WEEE directive to deal with waste electronics equipment -
but the recycling facilities are being overstretched due to the increased
volume of scrap caused by low life expectancy lead free solder.


Yes, it's a truly elegant example of self-fulfilling nonsense legislation,
enacted by fools who have insufficient knowledge of the subject and the
wider implications of the changes they cause ...

Arfa

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Default Poxy lead-free solder (again) ...

Ian Field wrote in message
...


"William Sommerwerck" wrote in message
...
The ROHS rationale was to protect the health of folks
doing recycling.


That's only part of it. It's supposedly true that rain (and
other solvents) leech lead from electronic equipment,
and it winds up in drinking water.


Therein lies an example of why we have the RoHS BS.


It's not BS if it's true.

I have never seen conclusive evidence one way or another. From my
perspective, the real issue is the huge piles of electronic trash
generated
every year. If these were properly recycled and/or disposed of, there
probably wouldn't be an issue with lead.


Europe has the WEEE directive to deal with waste electronics equipment -

but
the recycling facilities are being overstretched due to the increased

volume
of scrap caused by low life expectancy lead free solder.



Its only marginal that any "recycling" can be currently done in a western
economy (with E European or Mexican labour/labor rates) . If metals pricing
goes down then even that section , which as far as electronics scrap is
really only the metal casings of pcs , will go back in those thousands of
otherwise empty shipping containers back to the east. The dodgey sell-on of
containers of "nominally" working scrap electronics to Africa will continue
though.


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"N_Cook" wrote in message
...
Ian Field wrote in message
...


"William Sommerwerck" wrote in message
...
The ROHS rationale was to protect the health of folks
doing recycling.

That's only part of it. It's supposedly true that rain (and
other solvents) leech lead from electronic equipment,
and it winds up in drinking water.

Therein lies an example of why we have the RoHS BS.

It's not BS if it's true.

I have never seen conclusive evidence one way or another. From my
perspective, the real issue is the huge piles of electronic trash
generated
every year. If these were properly recycled and/or disposed of, there
probably wouldn't be an issue with lead.


Europe has the WEEE directive to deal with waste electronics equipment -

but
the recycling facilities are being overstretched due to the increased

volume
of scrap caused by low life expectancy lead free solder.



Its only marginal that any "recycling" can be currently done in a western
economy (with E European or Mexican labour/labor rates) . If metals
pricing
goes down then even that section , which as far as electronics scrap is
really only the metal casings of pcs , will go back in those thousands of
otherwise empty shipping containers back to the east. The dodgey sell-on
of
containers of "nominally" working scrap electronics to Africa will
continue
though.


There was a documentary on TV about that something like a year ago - one or
two of the "nominally working" items were TVs doctored by the investigating
team to not qualify for that classification, and fitted with tracking radios
to find out where they ended up - usualy W. Africa.

Car batteries which are allegedly recycled in accordance with the WEEE
directive; end up in a big pile in India, which is set alight and street
urchins (usually barefoot) shovel the molten lead into wheelbarrows as it
runs out the bottom of the pile.



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Ian Field wrote
tm wrote
William Sommerwerck wrote


The ROHS rationale was to protect the health of folks doing recycling.


That's only part of it. It's supposedly true that rain (and other
solvents)
leech lead from electronic equipment, and it winds up in drinking water.


Therein lies an example of why we have the RoHS BS.


But lead was mined out of the ground in the first place!


But not much of the drinking water comes from where its mined.

Not that I think it makes any sense at all to ban lead in solder.

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"Ian Field" wrote in message
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"N_Cook" wrote in message
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Ian Field wrote in message
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"William Sommerwerck" wrote in message
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The ROHS rationale was to protect the health of folks
doing recycling.

That's only part of it. It's supposedly true that rain (and
other solvents) leech lead from electronic equipment,
and it winds up in drinking water.

Therein lies an example of why we have the RoHS BS.

It's not BS if it's true.

I have never seen conclusive evidence one way or another. From my
perspective, the real issue is the huge piles of electronic trash
generated
every year. If these were properly recycled and/or disposed of, there
probably wouldn't be an issue with lead.

Europe has the WEEE directive to deal with waste electronics equipment -

but
the recycling facilities are being overstretched due to the increased

volume
of scrap caused by low life expectancy lead free solder.



Its only marginal that any "recycling" can be currently done in a western
economy (with E European or Mexican labour/labor rates) . If metals
pricing
goes down then even that section , which as far as electronics scrap is
really only the metal casings of pcs , will go back in those thousands
of
otherwise empty shipping containers back to the east. The dodgey sell-on
of
containers of "nominally" working scrap electronics to Africa will
continue
though.


There was a documentary on TV about that something like a year ago - one
or two of the "nominally working" items were TVs doctored by the
investigating team to not qualify for that classification, and fitted with
tracking radios to find out where they ended up - usualy W. Africa.

Car batteries which are allegedly recycled in accordance with the WEEE
directive; end up in a big pile in India, which is set alight and street
urchins (usually barefoot) shovel the molten lead into wheelbarrows as it
runs out the bottom of the pile.


Isn't it lovely how we continue to give useful and worthwhile work to the
ex-colonies ... :-)

Arfa

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"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...
Ian Field wrote
tm wrote
William Sommerwerck wrote


The ROHS rationale was to protect the health of folks doing recycling.


That's only part of it. It's supposedly true that rain (and other
solvents)
leech lead from electronic equipment, and it winds up in drinking
water.


Therein lies an example of why we have the RoHS BS.


But lead was mined out of the ground in the first place!


But not much of the drinking water comes from where its mined.

Not that I think it makes any sense at all to ban lead in solder.


Much drinking water in the UK was, and continues to be, supplied via lead
pipes, and not all areas have 'hard' water supplies that coat the inside of
those pipes with a 'protective' limescale layer.

The whole 'lead in the environment' argument makes little sense, apart from
in a few special cases like lead in gasoline and paint. Certainly, lead in
solder posed no threat at all, and removing it has, in my opinion, been a
disastrous retrograde step for the 'green' movement in general, and the
electronics construction and servicing industries in particular. Using the
stuff leads to increased production costs and energy budgets, and often
shorter product lives than would otherwise have been the case when the
mature and reliable technology of leaded solder was used.

Arfa

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Car batteries which are allegedly recycled in accordance
with the WEEE directive; end up in a big pile in India,
which is set alight and street urchins (usually barefoot)
shovel the molten lead into wheelbarrows as it runs out
the bottom of the pile.


I find this hard to believe.

A charged lead-acid battery contains plates of both elemental lead and some
oxidized form of lead. Burning the battery would presumably release only the
former, a waste of the latter.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead-acid_battery

A discharged battery contains less elemental lead and more oxidized lead.
Burning it will not reduce the oxidized lead to elemental lead.

Auto batteries have been recycled in the US for decades. The cell
construction of a car battery makes recycling relatively straightforward.
Burning the battery is just plain stupid.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automot...tery_recycling

Note the remark about the sometimes-high value of lead-acid batteries.

In short, I think this story is phony-baloney.


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"Arfa Daily" wrote in message
...


"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...
Ian Field wrote
tm wrote
William Sommerwerck wrote


The ROHS rationale was to protect the health of folks doing
recycling.


That's only part of it. It's supposedly true that rain (and other
solvents)
leech lead from electronic equipment, and it winds up in drinking
water.


Therein lies an example of why we have the RoHS BS.


But lead was mined out of the ground in the first place!


But not much of the drinking water comes from where its mined.

Not that I think it makes any sense at all to ban lead in solder.


Much drinking water in the UK was, and continues to be, supplied via lead
pipes, and not all areas have 'hard' water supplies that coat the inside
of those pipes with a 'protective' limescale layer.

The whole 'lead in the environment' argument makes little sense, apart
from in a few special cases like lead in gasoline and paint. Certainly,
lead in solder posed no threat at all, and removing it has, in my opinion,
been a disastrous retrograde step for the 'green' movement in general, and
the electronics construction and servicing industries in particular. Using
the stuff leads to increased production costs and energy budgets, and
often shorter product lives than would otherwise have been the case when
the mature and reliable technology of leaded solder was used.

Arfa


Compared to raw lead, lead/tin alloy is relatively stable, making solder was
actually binding a hazardous substance and effectively isolating it from the
environment.



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"William Sommerwerck" wrote in message
...
Car batteries which are allegedly recycled in accordance
with the WEEE directive; end up in a big pile in India,
which is set alight and street urchins (usually barefoot)
shovel the molten lead into wheelbarrows as it runs out
the bottom of the pile.


I find this hard to believe.

A charged lead-acid battery contains plates of both elemental lead and
some
oxidized form of lead. Burning the battery would presumably release only
the
former, a waste of the latter.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead-acid_battery

A discharged battery contains less elemental lead and more oxidized lead.
Burning it will not reduce the oxidized lead to elemental lead.

Auto batteries have been recycled in the US for decades. The cell
construction of a car battery makes recycling relatively straightforward.
Burning the battery is just plain stupid.



Unfortunately the slum dwellers in India never got around to installing
state of the art metal reclamation plant.

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Auto batteries have been recycled in the US for decades.
The cell construction of a car battery makes recycling
relatively straightforward. Burning the battery is just plain
stupid.


Unfortunately the slum dwellers in India never got around
to installing a state-of-the-art metal-reclamation plant.


True. But the point is that there seems to be no point in doing a botched,
inefficient job of reclaiming battery lead.


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"William Sommerwerck" wrote in message
...
Auto batteries have been recycled in the US for decades.
The cell construction of a car battery makes recycling
relatively straightforward. Burning the battery is just plain
stupid.


Unfortunately the slum dwellers in India never got around
to installing a state-of-the-art metal-reclamation plant.


True. But the point is that there seems to be no point in doing a botched,
inefficient job of reclaiming battery lead.



Nonetheless its a ****ty job that the countries of origin don't want to
dirty their hands with - so they dump them in a heap in an Indian slum
district and let the street urchins get on with it.

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On Sun, 5 Aug 2012 19:33:19 +0100, "Ian Field"
wrote:

I doubt it. This is how it's done:
http://www.okinternational.org/lead-batteries/Recycling
It's not pretty and probably unsafe, but workable.


Problem is; some dodgy characters have found after employee health & welfare
costs & environmental precaution, its just cheaper to export the old
batteries to a developing country with slums & street urchins to reclaim the
metal for a days food.


Would you deny the slum dwellers and street urchins their miserable
income by blocking or taxing such exports? It can be done, but it
would create an "unemployment" problem at the bottom end.

Incidentally, India isn't exactly a "developing country":
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/poll/2011/aug/16/india-us-aid-poll

I'm gratified to see that there are now 14 lead recycling plants in
the USA.
http://www.americasbatteryrecyclers.com/association.html
That's up from about 5 plants about 10 years ago. However, digging
through their various web piles, I find that some are either battery
manufacturers, that can profit directly from the reclaimed lead, or
collection points for smelters in Puerto Rico and Mexico.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
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"Ian Field" wrote in message
...


"Arfa Daily" wrote in message
...


"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...
Ian Field wrote
tm wrote
William Sommerwerck wrote

The ROHS rationale was to protect the health of folks doing
recycling.

That's only part of it. It's supposedly true that rain (and other
solvents)
leech lead from electronic equipment, and it winds up in drinking
water.

Therein lies an example of why we have the RoHS BS.

But lead was mined out of the ground in the first place!

But not much of the drinking water comes from where its mined.

Not that I think it makes any sense at all to ban lead in solder.


Much drinking water in the UK was, and continues to be, supplied via lead
pipes, and not all areas have 'hard' water supplies that coat the inside
of those pipes with a 'protective' limescale layer.

The whole 'lead in the environment' argument makes little sense, apart
from in a few special cases like lead in gasoline and paint. Certainly,
lead in solder posed no threat at all, and removing it has, in my
opinion, been a disastrous retrograde step for the 'green' movement in
general, and the electronics construction and servicing industries in
particular. Using the stuff leads to increased production costs and
energy budgets, and often shorter product lives than would otherwise have
been the case when the mature and reliable technology of leaded solder
was used.

Arfa


Compared to raw lead, lead/tin alloy is relatively stable, making solder
was actually binding a hazardous substance and effectively isolating it
from the environment.


Yes, quite. I think I made the point earlier that, as you say, tin and lead
is a stable compound

Arfa

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