100 step rotary encoder
 

Getting a bit flakey on a Behringer SL2442 mixing desk.
Just 3 control lines out , ground and 2 lines taken high via 4K7 to 5V. What
would be inside , 2 sets of 10 resistors? All wrapped up again , different
problem repaired and only noticed at final checks so cannot investigate.
Owner only uses one effect so fingers-crossed will not need replacement or
its fellow

100 step rotary encoder
 

"N_Cook" wrote in message
...
Getting a bit flakey on a Behringer SL2442 mixing desk.
Just 3 control lines out , ground and 2 lines taken high via 4K7 to 5V.
What
would be inside , 2 sets of 10 resistors? All wrapped up again , different
problem repaired and only noticed at final checks so cannot investigate.
Owner only uses one effect so fingers-crossed will not need replacement or
its fellow




The ones I've seen have 2 printed concentric zero ohm tracks, in a "square
wave" pattern.
Each track is supplied with 5v by the pullup resistors, the wiper shorting
out the tracks as it is turned, producing 2 square wave outputs.

The tracks are printed such that turning it one way makes one output lead
the other, turning it backwards makes it lag the other.

It is then possible to use these as data lines to a uP port, where software
determines direction of rotation and increments or decrements a counter to
show how far it has been moved.

Obviously it is not possible to determine absolute position.



Gareth.

100 step rotary encoder
 

"Gareth Magennis" wrote in message
...


"N_Cook" wrote in message
...
Getting a bit flakey on a Behringer SL2442 mixing desk.
Just 3 control lines out , ground and 2 lines taken high via 4K7 to 5V.
What
would be inside , 2 sets of 10 resistors? All wrapped up again ,
different
problem repaired and only noticed at final checks so cannot investigate.
Owner only uses one effect so fingers-crossed will not need replacement
or
its fellow




The ones I've seen have 2 printed concentric zero ohm tracks, in a "square
wave" pattern.
Each track is supplied with 5v by the pullup resistors, the wiper shorting
out the tracks as it is turned, producing 2 square wave outputs.

The tracks are printed such that turning it one way makes one output lead
the other, turning it backwards makes it lag the other.

It is then possible to use these as data lines to a uP port, where
software determines direction of rotation and increments or decrements a
counter to show how far it has been moved.

Obviously it is not possible to determine absolute position.



Gareth.


Software is quite easy - using one output to trigger an Interrupt routine on
change of its state.


P0 change of state Interrupt:

If P0 = P1 then increment
else decrement

end.



Gareth.

100 step rotary encoder
 

Gareth Magennis wrote in message
...


"N_Cook" wrote in message
...
Getting a bit flakey on a Behringer SL2442 mixing desk.
Just 3 control lines out , ground and 2 lines taken high via 4K7 to 5V.
What
would be inside , 2 sets of 10 resistors? All wrapped up again ,
different
problem repaired and only noticed at final checks so cannot
investigate.
Owner only uses one effect so fingers-crossed will not need replacement
or
its fellow




The ones I've seen have 2 printed concentric zero ohm tracks, in a "square
wave" pattern.
Each track is supplied with 5v by the pullup resistors, the wiper shorting
out the tracks as it is turned, producing 2 square wave outputs.

The tracks are printed such that turning it one way makes one output lead
the other, turning it backwards makes it lag the other.

It is then possible to use these as data lines to a uP port, where
software
determines direction of rotation and increments or decrements a counter to
show how far it has been moved.

Obviously it is not possible to determine absolute position.



Gareth.


And then non-volatile memory storage of the last stored position . So
presumably you can turn the control when powered off and it will display the
stored setting when powered on again.
So there is a good chance of getting inside one to clean etc and return it
to productive use .

100 step rotary encoder
 

"N_Cook" wrote in message
...
Gareth Magennis wrote in message
...


"N_Cook" wrote in message
...
Getting a bit flakey on a Behringer SL2442 mixing desk.
Just 3 control lines out , ground and 2 lines taken high via 4K7 to 5V.
What
would be inside , 2 sets of 10 resistors? All wrapped up again ,
different
problem repaired and only noticed at final checks so cannot
investigate.
Owner only uses one effect so fingers-crossed will not need replacement
or
its fellow




The ones I've seen have 2 printed concentric zero ohm tracks, in a
"square
wave" pattern.
Each track is supplied with 5v by the pullup resistors, the wiper
shorting
out the tracks as it is turned, producing 2 square wave outputs.

The tracks are printed such that turning it one way makes one output lead
the other, turning it backwards makes it lag the other.

It is then possible to use these as data lines to a uP port, where
software
determines direction of rotation and increments or decrements a counter
to
show how far it has been moved.

Obviously it is not possible to determine absolute position.



Gareth.


And then non-volatile memory storage of the last stored position . So
presumably you can turn the control when powered off and it will display
the
stored setting when powered on again.
So there is a good chance of getting inside one to clean etc and return it
to productive use .




My experience is that mostly when they go dicky you need to replace them.

You can get away with a bit of a crackly pot, but not a misbehaving Data
encoder, where often they will only go one way, or jump several positions at
once and be almost impossible to home in on the right spot.
This pretty much renders them useless unless perfect.



Gareth.

100 step rotary encoder
 

"N_Cook" wrote in message
...
Gareth Magennis wrote in message
...


"N_Cook" wrote in message
...
Getting a bit flakey on a Behringer SL2442 mixing desk.
Just 3 control lines out , ground and 2 lines taken high via 4K7 to 5V.
What
would be inside , 2 sets of 10 resistors? All wrapped up again ,
different
problem repaired and only noticed at final checks so cannot
investigate.
Owner only uses one effect so fingers-crossed will not need replacement
or
its fellow




The ones I've seen have 2 printed concentric zero ohm tracks, in a
"square
wave" pattern.
Each track is supplied with 5v by the pullup resistors, the wiper
shorting
out the tracks as it is turned, producing 2 square wave outputs.

The tracks are printed such that turning it one way makes one output lead
the other, turning it backwards makes it lag the other.

It is then possible to use these as data lines to a uP port, where
software
determines direction of rotation and increments or decrements a counter
to
show how far it has been moved.

Obviously it is not possible to determine absolute position.



Gareth.


And then non-volatile memory storage of the last stored position . So
presumably you can turn the control when powered off and it will display
the
stored setting when powered on again.
So there is a good chance of getting inside one to clean etc and return it
to productive use .





I have on a occasion been able to substitute a cheap easily available off
the shelf Alps part where the original is difficult or impossible to find.
(e.g. Behringer)

Once I had to reverse the two outputs because forwards was backwards, and
another time I had to add pullup resistors, since the original encoder had
them onboard with a 5v supply for some reason. (These were both on FX
units)

Mostly though its a question of trying to get it to physically fit and mount
properly, but then you do a lot of that sort of thing so shouldn't find it a
problem.



Cheers,

Gareth.

100 step rotary encoder
 

Gareth Magennis wrote in message
...

"N_Cook" wrote in message
...
Gareth Magennis wrote in message
...


"N_Cook" wrote in message
...
Getting a bit flakey on a Behringer SL2442 mixing desk.
Just 3 control lines out , ground and 2 lines taken high via 4K7 to
5V.
What
would be inside , 2 sets of 10 resistors? All wrapped up again ,
different
problem repaired and only noticed at final checks so cannot
investigate.
Owner only uses one effect so fingers-crossed will not need
replacement
or
its fellow




The ones I've seen have 2 printed concentric zero ohm tracks, in a
"square
wave" pattern.
Each track is supplied with 5v by the pullup resistors, the wiper
shorting
out the tracks as it is turned, producing 2 square wave outputs.

The tracks are printed such that turning it one way makes one output
lead
the other, turning it backwards makes it lag the other.

It is then possible to use these as data lines to a uP port, where
software
determines direction of rotation and increments or decrements a counter
to
show how far it has been moved.

Obviously it is not possible to determine absolute position.



Gareth.


And then non-volatile memory storage of the last stored position . So
presumably you can turn the control when powered off and it will display
the
stored setting when powered on again.
So there is a good chance of getting inside one to clean etc and return
it
to productive use .





I have on a occasion been able to substitute a cheap easily available off
the shelf Alps part where the original is difficult or impossible to find.
(e.g. Behringer)

Once I had to reverse the two outputs because forwards was backwards, and
another time I had to add pullup resistors, since the original encoder had
them onboard with a 5v supply for some reason. (These were both on FX
units)

Mostly though its a question of trying to get it to physically fit and
mount
properly, but then you do a lot of that sort of thing so shouldn't find it
a
problem.



Cheers,

Gareth.



You would think something the best part of 3x2 foot would have plenty of
space to fit generic componentry in.

100 step rotary encoder
 

"N_Cook" wrote in message
...
Gareth Magennis wrote in message
...

"N_Cook" wrote in message
...
Gareth Magennis wrote in message
...


"N_Cook" wrote in message
...
Getting a bit flakey on a Behringer SL2442 mixing desk.
Just 3 control lines out , ground and 2 lines taken high via 4K7 to
5V.
What
would be inside , 2 sets of 10 resistors? All wrapped up again ,
different
problem repaired and only noticed at final checks so cannot
investigate.
Owner only uses one effect so fingers-crossed will not need
replacement
or
its fellow




The ones I've seen have 2 printed concentric zero ohm tracks, in a
"square
wave" pattern.
Each track is supplied with 5v by the pullup resistors, the wiper
shorting
out the tracks as it is turned, producing 2 square wave outputs.

The tracks are printed such that turning it one way makes one output
lead
the other, turning it backwards makes it lag the other.

It is then possible to use these as data lines to a uP port, where
software
determines direction of rotation and increments or decrements a
counter
to
show how far it has been moved.

Obviously it is not possible to determine absolute position.



Gareth.


And then non-volatile memory storage of the last stored position . So
presumably you can turn the control when powered off and it will
display
the
stored setting when powered on again.
So there is a good chance of getting inside one to clean etc and return
it
to productive use .





I have on a occasion been able to substitute a cheap easily available
off
the shelf Alps part where the original is difficult or impossible to
find.
(e.g. Behringer)

Once I had to reverse the two outputs because forwards was backwards, and
another time I had to add pullup resistors, since the original encoder
had
them onboard with a 5v supply for some reason. (These were both on FX
units)

Mostly though its a question of trying to get it to physically fit and
mount
properly, but then you do a lot of that sort of thing so shouldn't find
it
a
problem.



Cheers,

Gareth.



You would think something the best part of 3x2 foot would have plenty of
space to fit generic componentry in.




Yes, but the Chinese make everything themselves, they are not going to have
Alps or anyone else make them for them at far greater expense.

Thats why they are so cheap, that's their modus operandi.



Gareth.

100 step rotary encoder
 

"Gareth Magennis" wrote in message
...

"N_Cook" wrote in message
...
Gareth Magennis wrote in message
...


"N_Cook" wrote in message
...
Getting a bit flakey on a Behringer SL2442 mixing desk.
Just 3 control lines out , ground and 2 lines taken high via 4K7 to
5V.
What
would be inside , 2 sets of 10 resistors? All wrapped up again ,
different
problem repaired and only noticed at final checks so cannot
investigate.
Owner only uses one effect so fingers-crossed will not need
replacement
or
its fellow




The ones I've seen have 2 printed concentric zero ohm tracks, in a
"square
wave" pattern.
Each track is supplied with 5v by the pullup resistors, the wiper
shorting
out the tracks as it is turned, producing 2 square wave outputs.

The tracks are printed such that turning it one way makes one output
lead
the other, turning it backwards makes it lag the other.

It is then possible to use these as data lines to a uP port, where
software
determines direction of rotation and increments or decrements a counter
to
show how far it has been moved.

Obviously it is not possible to determine absolute position.



Gareth.


And then non-volatile memory storage of the last stored position . So
presumably you can turn the control when powered off and it will display
the
stored setting when powered on again.
So there is a good chance of getting inside one to clean etc and return
it
to productive use .




My experience is that mostly when they go dicky you need to replace them.

You can get away with a bit of a crackly pot, but not a misbehaving Data
encoder, where often they will only go one way, or jump several positions
at once and be almost impossible to home in on the right spot.
This pretty much renders them useless unless perfect.



Gareth.

Interesting that you've found that. I have had total success cleaning the
ones that are fitted to hifi's, for years now. The rotating encoder rings
and the wiping contacts are normally gold plated, and the intermittency
issue is caused by the 'stirring treacle' grease that's used in them,
migrating down the shaft and onto the contacts. When removed from the pcb,
these encoders are easily stripped. A little drop of IPA on a cotton bud
turns the grease to a sort of 'jelly', which is then easily picked out with
tweezers. Once it's all clean, I normally retension the contacts, and add a
single drop of cleaner / lubricant before reassembling. I can't recall ever
having to replace one, and have done scores of them over the years. It was a
favourite problem in many of the Aiwa models that were on the market a few
years ago.

Arfa

100 step rotary encoder
 

"Arfa Daily" wrote in message
...


"Gareth Magennis" wrote in message
...

"N_Cook" wrote in message
...
Gareth Magennis wrote in message
...


"N_Cook" wrote in message
...
Getting a bit flakey on a Behringer SL2442 mixing desk.
Just 3 control lines out , ground and 2 lines taken high via 4K7 to
5V.
What
would be inside , 2 sets of 10 resistors? All wrapped up again ,
different
problem repaired and only noticed at final checks so cannot
investigate.
Owner only uses one effect so fingers-crossed will not need
replacement
or
its fellow




The ones I've seen have 2 printed concentric zero ohm tracks, in a
"square
wave" pattern.
Each track is supplied with 5v by the pullup resistors, the wiper
shorting
out the tracks as it is turned, producing 2 square wave outputs.

The tracks are printed such that turning it one way makes one output
lead
the other, turning it backwards makes it lag the other.

It is then possible to use these as data lines to a uP port, where
software
determines direction of rotation and increments or decrements a counter
to
show how far it has been moved.

Obviously it is not possible to determine absolute position.



Gareth.


And then non-volatile memory storage of the last stored position . So
presumably you can turn the control when powered off and it will display
the
stored setting when powered on again.
So there is a good chance of getting inside one to clean etc and return
it
to productive use .




My experience is that mostly when they go dicky you need to replace them.

You can get away with a bit of a crackly pot, but not a misbehaving Data
encoder, where often they will only go one way, or jump several positions
at once and be almost impossible to home in on the right spot.
This pretty much renders them useless unless perfect.



Gareth.

Interesting that you've found that. I have had total success cleaning the
ones that are fitted to hifi's, for years now. The rotating encoder rings
and the wiping contacts are normally gold plated, and the intermittency
issue is caused by the 'stirring treacle' grease that's used in them,
migrating down the shaft and onto the contacts. When removed from the pcb,
these encoders are easily stripped. A little drop of IPA on a cotton bud
turns the grease to a sort of 'jelly', which is then easily picked out
with tweezers. Once it's all clean, I normally retension the contacts, and
add a single drop of cleaner / lubricant before reassembling. I can't
recall ever having to replace one, and have done scores of them over the
years. It was a favourite problem in many of the Aiwa models that were on
the market a few years ago.

Arfa


These are the type typically found in Mr Cooks mixer, FX units etc.

http://uk.farnell.com/alps/ec11e0920...ppr/dp/2064980

At £2.05 for a new one I am certainly not going to bother trying to bodge a
few extra months out of a knackered one!
(The official parts from manufacturers (Yamaha, Roland, Korg etc) can
admittedly sometimes cost up to £10 after postage/packing etc)

But that's more my policy than anything else - Do I charge the customer
labour for bodging, or do I, in my opinion, do the right thing and replace
the faulty part instead?
If the customer finds it goes dicky again less than a year after I've
charged him at least an hours labour to supposedly fix it, my reputation is
going to take a hit.

With a new one, it feels all nice and new again, its easily within an hours
labour plus parts, the customer is well chuffed, and it should last the same
amount of time again.
No brainer, IMHO.


Cheers,


Gareth.

100 step rotary encoder
 

"Arfa Daily" wrote in message
...


"Gareth Magennis" wrote in message
...

"N_Cook" wrote in message
...
Gareth Magennis wrote in message
...


"N_Cook" wrote in message
...
Getting a bit flakey on a Behringer SL2442 mixing desk.
Just 3 control lines out , ground and 2 lines taken high via 4K7 to
5V.
What
would be inside , 2 sets of 10 resistors? All wrapped up again ,
different
problem repaired and only noticed at final checks so cannot
investigate.
Owner only uses one effect so fingers-crossed will not need
replacement
or
its fellow




The ones I've seen have 2 printed concentric zero ohm tracks, in a
"square
wave" pattern.
Each track is supplied with 5v by the pullup resistors, the wiper
shorting
out the tracks as it is turned, producing 2 square wave outputs.

The tracks are printed such that turning it one way makes one output
lead
the other, turning it backwards makes it lag the other.

It is then possible to use these as data lines to a uP port, where
software
determines direction of rotation and increments or decrements a counter
to
show how far it has been moved.

Obviously it is not possible to determine absolute position.



Gareth.


And then non-volatile memory storage of the last stored position . So
presumably you can turn the control when powered off and it will display
the
stored setting when powered on again.
So there is a good chance of getting inside one to clean etc and return
it
to productive use .




My experience is that mostly when they go dicky you need to replace them.

You can get away with a bit of a crackly pot, but not a misbehaving Data
encoder, where often they will only go one way, or jump several positions
at once and be almost impossible to home in on the right spot.
This pretty much renders them useless unless perfect.



Gareth.

Interesting that you've found that. I have had total success cleaning the
ones that are fitted to hifi's, for years now. The rotating encoder rings
and the wiping contacts are normally gold plated, and the intermittency
issue is caused by the 'stirring treacle' grease that's used in them,
migrating down the shaft and onto the contacts. When removed from the pcb,
these encoders are easily stripped. A little drop of IPA on a cotton bud
turns the grease to a sort of 'jelly', which is then easily picked out
with tweezers. Once it's all clean, I normally retension the contacts, and
add a single drop of cleaner / lubricant before reassembling. I can't
recall ever having to replace one, and have done scores of them over the
years. It was a favourite problem in many of the Aiwa models that were on
the market a few years ago.

Arfa

I found a couple very common types available very cheap from Onkyo in the
U.S.
About $1.00 each.

I've had good success cleaning them for the most part, but I did have a very
nasty re-do on a JVC stereo which had a slightly different encoder, seemed
to work after cleaning, then wound up having to order the original part from
JVC when the unit came back.

It was buried on a sub-board in the front panel of a tabletop stereo, so the
double extra-special labor to get in there a second time probably cost me
100.00.

As cheap as they are, I generally replace them with the Onkyo parts, since
most models use one of the two Onk parts I stock.

I did have a Marantz SR-18U recently which had a "special" one, and no
longer available from Marantz. I cleaned it, and it worked OK, but I was
kind of sweating bullets on that one...

Mark Z.

100 step rotary encoder
 

Gareth Magennis wrote in message
...


"Arfa Daily" wrote in message
...


"Gareth Magennis" wrote in message
...

"N_Cook" wrote in message
...
Gareth Magennis wrote in message
...


"N_Cook" wrote in message
...
Getting a bit flakey on a Behringer SL2442 mixing desk.
Just 3 control lines out , ground and 2 lines taken high via 4K7 to
5V.
What
would be inside , 2 sets of 10 resistors? All wrapped up again ,
different
problem repaired and only noticed at final checks so cannot
investigate.
Owner only uses one effect so fingers-crossed will not need
replacement
or
its fellow




The ones I've seen have 2 printed concentric zero ohm tracks, in a
"square
wave" pattern.
Each track is supplied with 5v by the pullup resistors, the wiper
shorting
out the tracks as it is turned, producing 2 square wave outputs.

The tracks are printed such that turning it one way makes one output
lead
the other, turning it backwards makes it lag the other.

It is then possible to use these as data lines to a uP port, where
software
determines direction of rotation and increments or decrements a
counter
to
show how far it has been moved.

Obviously it is not possible to determine absolute position.



Gareth.


And then non-volatile memory storage of the last stored position . So
presumably you can turn the control when powered off and it will
display
the
stored setting when powered on again.
So there is a good chance of getting inside one to clean etc and
return
it
to productive use .




My experience is that mostly when they go dicky you need to replace
them.

You can get away with a bit of a crackly pot, but not a misbehaving
Data
encoder, where often they will only go one way, or jump several
positions
at once and be almost impossible to home in on the right spot.
This pretty much renders them useless unless perfect.



Gareth.

Interesting that you've found that. I have had total success cleaning
the
ones that are fitted to hifi's, for years now. The rotating encoder
rings
and the wiping contacts are normally gold plated, and the intermittency
issue is caused by the 'stirring treacle' grease that's used in them,
migrating down the shaft and onto the contacts. When removed from the
pcb,
these encoders are easily stripped. A little drop of IPA on a cotton bud
turns the grease to a sort of 'jelly', which is then easily picked out
with tweezers. Once it's all clean, I normally retension the contacts,
and
add a single drop of cleaner / lubricant before reassembling. I can't
recall ever having to replace one, and have done scores of them over the
years. It was a favourite problem in many of the Aiwa models that were
on
the market a few years ago.

Arfa


These are the type typically found in Mr Cooks mixer, FX units etc.


http://uk.farnell.com/alps/ec11e0920...18det-9ppr/dp/
2064980

At £2.05 for a new one I am certainly not going to bother trying to bodge
a
few extra months out of a knackered one!
(The official parts from manufacturers (Yamaha, Roland, Korg etc) can
admittedly sometimes cost up to £10 after postage/packing etc)

But that's more my policy than anything else - Do I charge the customer
labour for bodging, or do I, in my opinion, do the right thing and replace
the faulty part instead?
If the customer finds it goes dicky again less than a year after I've
charged him at least an hours labour to supposedly fix it, my reputation
is
going to take a hit.

With a new one, it feels all nice and new again, its easily within an
hours
labour plus parts, the customer is well chuffed, and it should last the
same
amount of time again.
No brainer, IMHO.


Cheers,


Gareth.


This one has a co-axial switch for the memory change function and as far as
I remember no where in that 2x3 foot panel , any space to squeeze a switch ,
apart from having to cut a new hole in the top pannel.
So recondition of the existing or constrained to the main-dealer for supply
of a direct replacement

100 step rotary encoder
 

This one has a co-axial switch for the memory change function and as far
as
I remember no where in that 2x3 foot panel , any space to squeeze a switch
,
apart from having to cut a new hole in the top pannel.
So recondition of the existing or constrained to the main-dealer for
supply
of a direct replacement




Alps make these with switches too.

http://uk.farnell.com/alps/ec11b1524...tch/dp/1191734



Gareth.