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Electronics Repair (sci.electronics.repair) Discussion of repairing electronic equipment. Topics include requests for assistance, where to obtain servicing information and parts, techniques for diagnosis and repair, and annecdotes about success, failures and problems. |
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ceiling rose wiring
Can any one help please? I am attempting to install a new ceiling light in a single switched single light configuration in our downstairs toilet. I dismantled the old light and re-wired the new light in excatly the same configuration as the old one. There are 2 black wires, one red wire and one earth wire. I have established that the red is the switched live by testing with a circuit tester. When the light is switched on the neutral terminal becomes live when a bulb is inserted so the circuit is completing itself but the bulb stubbornly refuses to light up. I have exchanged the light unit thinking it may be faulty bu to no avail. The red is insterted in the "L" part of the block and the blacks are inserted in the "N" part of the block. The house earth is attached to the light fitting earth correctly so I am now at a loss. Help please...... Thanks
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#2
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ceiling rose wiring
Andytaylor1963 wrote:
Can any one help please? I am attempting to install a new ceiling light in a single switched single light configuration in our downstairs toilet. I dismantled the old light and re-wired the new light in excatly the same configuration as the old one. There are 2 black wires, one red wire and one earth wire. I have established that the red is the switched live by testing with a circuit tester. When the light is switched on the neutral terminal becomes live when a bulb is inserted so the circuit is completing itself but the bulb stubbornly refuses to light up. I have exchanged the light unit thinking it may be faulty bu to no avail. The red is insterted in the "L" part of the block and the blacks are inserted in the "N" part of the block. The house earth is attached to the light fitting earth correctly so I am now at a loss. Help please...... Thanks You have something wrong there. L should be the black wire, White wire goes to N. As for the Red wire? That sounds like you have a three way switch? three way switches normally use 3 wire with ground. That would be the Black, white and red + ground wire. In all cases, the white wire is (N) the neutral. The black/Red is considered L in your case. If you don't have a white wire, you better check a little closer. I suppose you could be using 2 leads of romix, It isn't unheard of but does cost more. In which case, you then wouldn't have a red wire but 2 black wires and still a white wire. Jamie |
#3
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ceiling rose wiring
"Jamie" t wrote in message ... Andytaylor1963 wrote: Can any one help please? I am attempting to install a new ceiling light in a single switched single light configuration in our downstairs toilet. I dismantled the old light and re-wired the new light in excatly the same configuration as the old one. There are 2 black wires, one red wire and one earth wire. I have established that the red is the switched live by testing with a circuit tester. When the light is switched on the neutral terminal becomes live when a bulb is inserted so the circuit is completing itself but the bulb stubbornly refuses to light up. I have exchanged the light unit thinking it may be faulty bu to no avail. The red is insterted in the "L" part of the block and the blacks are inserted in the "N" part of the block. The house earth is attached to the light fitting earth correctly so I am now at a loss. Help please...... Thanks You have something wrong there. L should be the black wire, White wire goes to N. As for the Red wire? That sounds like you have a three way switch? three way switches normally use 3 wire with ground. That would be the Black, white and red + ground wire. In all cases, the white wire is (N) the neutral. The black/Red is considered L in your case. If you don't have a white wire, you better check a little closer. I suppose you could be using 2 leads of romix, It isn't unheard of but does cost more. In which case, you then wouldn't have a red wire but 2 black wires and still a white wire. Jamie That's U.S. wiring Jamie. This guy is talking UK wiring. What he has is (almost) absolutely bog-standard wiring for a ceiling light in the UK. I say "almost" because there is normally at least two, and often three or four reds going to the ceiling rose, and two blacks. The blacks are neutral in and loop out to the next fitting on the circuit. Two reds are live in and loop out to the next fitting. You can normally identify those because one red and one black each come from a twin + earth cable. The other two reds are the switch drop - one out and one return. These usually are together in another twin + earth cable that's made specifically for switch drops. All the colours changed recently, but up to a few years ago, all house wiring here was in red, black and open copper earth, sheathed with a yellow and green striped sleeve where it terminated in a fitting. The usual arrangement in the ceiling rose, is two blocks of three terminals, and a two, although this can vary. Typically, the two neutrals are in one three way, along with the neutral from the pendant cable, the two lives are in the second three way block, along with one of the switch drop wires, and the other switch drop wire is in the remaining two way block, along with the live from the pendant cable, so the ceiling rose performs the dual function of light fitting, and junction box for the continuation of that lighting circuit. The fact that the OP has two blacks and only one red, is confusing. That basically implies that the live feed for the switch, has been 'stolen' from some other circuit, with only the switched return finding its way back to the ceiling rose. This is further confused by the fact that there are two blacks, implying that the same has been done at the next fitting on the circuit as well. It would be a good idea to check exactly which circuits these lights are on, in case some cowboy electrician or builder, has stolen these lives from a ring main circuit at some time in the past. I have seen this done on more than one occasion, where it was inconvenient to run new cables into ceilings. The fact that the neutral becomes live when a bulb is inserted and the switch is on, in no way implies that the circuit is "completing itself". This tells us that the neutral is 'floating'. Assuming that this is a pendant fitting, are you measuring this behaviour at the blue neutral pendant wire ? If so, I would suggest that you look carefully at the configuration of the terminal blocks in the fitting. They can vary, and may not be the same as in the fitting you are replacing, in which case, I think you will find that your blue wire is not being joined to the two blacks. So just to get it straight, your two blacks and the blue neutral pendant drop should all be commoned together in one block, and the single red and the brown live pendant drop, should be commoned together in a different block. Arfa |
#4
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ceiling rose wiring
On Apr 30, 10:57*am, Andytaylor1963
wrote: Can any one help please? I am attempting to install a new ceiling light in a single switched single light configuration in our downstairs toilet. I dismantled the old light and re-wired the new light in excatly the same configuration as the old one. There are 2 black wires, one red wire and one earth wire. I have established that the red is the switched live by testing with a circuit tester. When the light is switched on the neutral terminal becomes live when a bulb is inserted so the circuit is completing itself but the bulb stubbornly refuses to light up. I have exchanged the light unit thinking it may be faulty bu to no avail. The red is insterted in the "L" part of the block and the blacks are inserted in the "N" part of the block. The house earth is attached to the light fitting earth correctly so I am now at a loss. Help please...... Thanks -- Andytaylor1963 Are you in the USA, Canada, Somewhere in Europe, Australia, Japan, China,?????? Settle this first so you get reasonable answers |
#5
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Quote:
Thanks very much for your responses. I think it has been re-wired incorrectly. When we bought the house an extension had already been built and sadly this isn't the first time we have found difficulties....... The worst one of which was the ommission of a lintel to hold up a retaining wall! |
#6
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ceiling rose wiring
On Mon, 30 Apr 2012 15:57:07 +0000, Andytaylor1963
wrote: Can any one help please? As you mention red/black we can assume(?) that the house was wired before the brown/blue EU change. Assuming that the wires are "singles" (not twin and earth) then it could be wired like this:- http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...le_ .26_Earth Arfa has it correct (of course) that the neutral (black) should never become live... You will likely get more pointed advice if you ask in the uk.d-i-y newsgroup where the electricians hang out. |
#7
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ceiling rose wiring
"Geo" wrote in message ... On Mon, 30 Apr 2012 15:57:07 +0000, Andytaylor1963 wrote: Can any one help please? As you mention red/black we can assume(?) that the house was wired before the brown/blue EU change. Assuming that the wires are "singles" (not twin and earth) then it could be wired like this:- http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...le_ .26_Earth Arfa has it correct (of course) that the neutral (black) should never become live... You will likely get more pointed advice if you ask in the uk.d-i-y newsgroup where the electricians hang out. Yes indeed. That link shows nicely exactly what I was describing (except in the new-fangled colours rather than the red / black that the OP has at his installation). Also, if the OP can't get to the bottom of his problem as a result of the info he is getting on here, then definitely uk.d-i-y is the place to go for help from professional sparkies ... Arfa |
#8
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ceiling rose wiring
On 04/30/12 15:57, Andytaylor1963 wrote:
Can any one help please? I am attempting to install a new ceiling light in a single switched single light configuration in our downstairs toilet. I dismantled the old light and re-wired the new light in excatly the same configuration as the old one. There are 2 black wires, one red wire and one earth wire. I have established that the red is the switched live by testing with a circuit tester. When the light is switched on the neutral terminal becomes live when a bulb is inserted so the circuit is completing itself but the bulb stubbornly refuses to light up. I have exchanged the light unit thinking it may be faulty bu to no avail. The red is insterted in the "L" part of the block and the blacks are inserted in the "N" part of the block. The house earth is attached to the light fitting earth correctly so I am now at a loss. Help please...... Thanks Well, since you installed the light in the ****ter, then maybe you should flush the mother****er and then it will light up. ****ing moron. |
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