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Electronics Repair (sci.electronics.repair) Discussion of repairing electronic equipment. Topics include requests for assistance, where to obtain servicing information and parts, techniques for diagnosis and repair, and annecdotes about success, failures and problems. |
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#1
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Booting problem - Toshiba Netbook NB200
On Apr 13, 2:06*pm, News wrote:
We have a little net book, running XP, and it is a lovely little machine for browsing the web, reading mail etc. *Works perfectly except when rebooted, which I only do after MS updates. When shut down, for any reason, it will not restart until the battery has run down, and I mean completely flat. *Every little volt. *Removing the battery does not help - the battery has to be in place, but completely expired, which normally takes a couple of days. *Then, with the charger plugged in, it will boot normally and run perfectly, either from battery or mains until the next upgrade/shut down. The battery itself seems to be OK - it will run the machine for several hours, which is all it managed when the machine was new a couple of years ago. Any thoughts? Maybe try an OS with more uptime I've no idea re the fault, best to ask on sci.electronics.repair. |
#2
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Booting problem - Toshiba Netbook NB200
In message
, NT writes On Apr 13, 2:06*pm, News wrote: When shut down, for any reason, it will not restart until the battery has run down, and I mean completely flat. *Every little volt. *Removing the battery does not help - the battery has to be in place, but completely expired, which normally takes a couple of days. *Then, with the charger plugged in, it will boot normally and run perfectly, either from battery or mains until the next upgrade/shut down. Maybe try an OS with more uptime grin Perhaps strangely, uptime has never been a problem. The only time I reboot is following installation of MS updates. I've no idea re the fault, best to ask on sci.electronics.repair. OK, thanks. -- Graeme |
#3
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Booting problem - Toshiba Netbook NB200
On Fri, 13 Apr 2012 06:18:22 -0700 (PDT), NT
wrote: On Apr 13, 2:06*pm, News wrote: We have a little net book, running XP, and it is a lovely little machine for browsing the web, reading mail etc. *Works perfectly except when rebooted, which I only do after MS updates. When shut down, for any reason, it will not restart until the battery has run down, and I mean completely flat. *Every little volt. *Removing the battery does not help - the battery has to be in place, but completely expired, which normally takes a couple of days. *Then, with the charger plugged in, it will boot normally and run perfectly, either from battery or mains until the next upgrade/shut down. The battery itself seems to be OK - it will run the machine for several hours, which is all it managed when the machine was new a couple of years ago. Any thoughts? Maybe try an OS with more uptime I've no idea re the fault, best to ask on sci.electronics.repair. A little more infomation perhaps? Anything on the screen, does it do the initial POST, any error messages? -- Graham. %Profound_observation% |
#4
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Booting problem - Toshiba Netbook NB200
In message , Graham.
writes On Fri, 13 Apr 2012 06:18:22 -0700 (PDT), NT wrote: Maybe try an OS with more uptime I've no idea re the fault, best to ask on sci.electronics.repair. A little more infomation perhaps? Anything on the screen, does it do the initial POST, any error messages? Sorry. Absolutely nothing. The power light comes on, but the screen does not react. No messages, no beeps, nothing. -- Graeme |
#5
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Booting problem - Toshiba Netbook NB200
On Apr 13, 2:41*pm, News wrote:
In message , NT writes On Apr 13, 2:06*pm, News wrote: When shut down, for any reason, it will not restart until the battery has run down, and I mean completely flat. *Every little volt. *Removing the battery does not help - the battery has to be in place, but completely expired, which normally takes a couple of days. *Then, with the charger plugged in, it will boot normally and run perfectly, either from battery or mains until the next upgrade/shut down. Maybe try an OS with more uptime grin *Perhaps strangely, uptime has never been a problem. *The only time I reboot is following installation of MS updates. I've no idea re the fault, best to ask on sci.electronics.repair. OK, thanks. It sounds like uptime is one half of the problem. Frequent updates result in downtime each time. Hopefully you've fixed it now, if not though I'd simply switch off autoupdates if its not a security critical machine, or if it is, try a few linux live CDs to see if something more stable suits you. Mint 7 is a good replacement for xp, and can happily keep running weeks at a time with a 2G swap partition (the bigger the swap, the more uptime). Support has ended for 7, so no updates, and seldom any reason to reboot. NT |
#6
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Booting problem - Toshiba Netbook NB200
News wrote:
In message , Graham. writes On Fri, 13 Apr 2012 06:18:22 -0700 (PDT), NT wrote: Maybe try an OS with more uptime I've no idea re the fault, best to ask on sci.electronics.repair. A little more infomation perhaps? Anything on the screen, does it do the initial POST, any error messages? Sorry. Absolutely nothing. The power light comes on, but the screen does not react. No messages, no beeps, nothing. Personally I dunno. Apparently others have gotten their units to boot by freezing them (in a real freezer) before booting up. This looks interesting from http://www.techsupportforum.com/foru...t-492391.html: " Toshiba NB200 won't boot I have found a fix for this. I do computer repair for a living and have now repaired two nb200's with this fault. Here's how: 1) Get the computer to post and boot. There's a few ways to do this if it will NEVER post. You can leave the computer off for around 2 months. I had one which never posted no matter what I tried. After leaving it sit around for about 2 months, I tried again and it posted and booted, but once it warmed up again it wouldn't post again. You can also try putting it in your car overnight to cool it down, or lastly you can try the freezer trick. Once you have it booted to windows, DON'T restart or power down as it may not post again. 2) Download the latest BIOS update for your NB200 which is v2.1. Make sure it's for the correct part number which can be found on the back of your nb200. 3) Connect your power lead and make sure the nb200 has at least 50% charge. 4) Install the v2.1 BIOS update. Both nb200's I have repaired like this would only post intermittently before this v2.1 BIOS update. As I mentioned, 1 of them wouldn't post at all for two months. Both nb200's were initially running the v1.2 BIOS. Immediately after this v2.1 update, both nb200's post and boot every time, even when i have left them running near a heater in a hot room. Basically fixed. You can find out what BIOS version you have on the main page of the BIOS setup screen. So, get it to boot, and flash to the latest bios update." --Winston |
#7
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Booting problem - Toshiba Netbook NB200
In message , Winston
writes This looks interesting from http://www.techsupportforum.com/foru...wont-boot-4923 91.html: Thanks for that. Yes, I followed that advice, upgraded the BIOS and it has behaved perfectly since then. Cheers, -- Graeme |
#8
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Booting problem - Toshiba Netbook NB200
"News" wrote in message
... In message , Winston writes This looks interesting from http://www.techsupportforum.com/foru...wont-boot-4923 91.html: Thanks for that. Yes, I followed that advice, upgraded the BIOS and it has behaved perfectly since then. Both the solutions (freeze or leave for long time) sound like ways of clearing the BIOS (freezing car radios used to be a way to clear their security codes!). If there is an accessible battery (probably not) then pull it and leave for a week might do the same job. Or there may even be a way to force clearing the BIOS on boot. Paul DS |
#9
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Booting problem - Toshiba Netbook NB200
On Apr 19, 10:02*am, "Paul D Smith" wrote:
"News" wrote in message ... In message , Winston writes This looks interesting from http://www.techsupportforum.com/foru...wont-boot-4923 91.html: Thanks for that. *Yes, I followed that advice, upgraded the BIOS and it has behaved perfectly since then. Both the solutions (freeze or leave for long time) sound like ways of clearing the BIOS (freezing car radios used to be a way to clear their security codes!). If there is an accessible battery (probably not) then pull it and leave for a week might do the same job. *Or there may even be a way to force clearing the BIOS on boot. Paul DS Talking ********. The BIOS is in Flash memory. You don't want to clear that. MBQ |
#10
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Booting problem - Toshiba Netbook NB200
On 19/04/2012 11:57, Man at B&Q wrote:
On Apr 19, 10:02 am, "Paul D wrote: wrote in message ... In , Winston writes This looks interesting from http://www.techsupportforum.com/foru...wont-boot-4923 91.html: Thanks for that. Yes, I followed that advice, upgraded the BIOS and it has behaved perfectly since then. Both the solutions (freeze or leave for long time) sound like ways of clearing the BIOS (freezing car radios used to be a way to clear their security codes!). If there is an accessible battery (probably not) then pull it and leave for a week might do the same job. Or there may even be a way to force clearing the BIOS on boot. Paul DS Talking ********. I don't think he is actually. The BIOS is in Flash memory. You don't want to clear that. I think you will find he is referring to the BIOS Data Area data which are held in a small amount of storage maintained in battery backed CMOS RAM. It has nothing to do with the Flash memory used to hold the BIOS program code itself. The BIOS Data area is typically copied to main ram (at 0040:0000h) during system boot. It contains (as well as other stuff) the equipment list, and configuration of the basic hardware like what drives are attached, the base address of serial ports etc. -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
#11
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Booting problem - Toshiba Netbook NB200
On Apr 19, 3:30*pm, John Rumm wrote:
On 19/04/2012 11:57, Man at B&Q wrote: On Apr 19, 10:02 am, "Paul D *wrote: *wrote in message ... In , Winston *writes This looks interesting from http://www.techsupportforum.com/foru...wont-boot-4923 91.html: Thanks for that. *Yes, I followed that advice, upgraded the BIOS and it has behaved perfectly since then. Both the solutions (freeze or leave for long time) sound like ways of clearing the BIOS (freezing car radios used to be a way to clear their security codes!). If there is an accessible battery (probably not) then pull it and leave for a week might do the same job. *Or there may even be a way to force clearing the BIOS on boot. Paul DS Talking ********. I don't think he is actually. The BIOS is in Flash memory. You don't want to clear that. I think you will find he is referring to the BIOS Data Area I know that. He should refer to things properly. data which are held in a small amount of storage maintained in battery backed CMOS RAM. It has nothing to do with the Flash memory used to hold the BIOS program code itself. The code in the Flash *is* "the BIOS". When you update "the BIOS" you are updating the code in the Flash, not the contents of the "CMOS" as it is sometimes referred to. MBQ |
#12
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Booting problem - Toshiba Netbook NB200
On 19/04/2012 16:04, Man at B&Q wrote:
On Apr 19, 3:30 pm, John wrote: On 19/04/2012 11:57, Man at B&Q wrote: On Apr 19, 10:02 am, "Paul D wrote: wrote in message ... In , Winston writes This looks interesting from http://www.techsupportforum.com/foru...wont-boot-4923 91.html: Thanks for that. Yes, I followed that advice, upgraded the BIOS and it has behaved perfectly since then. Both the solutions (freeze or leave for long time) sound like ways of clearing the BIOS (freezing car radios used to be a way to clear their security codes!). If there is an accessible battery (probably not) then pull it and leave for a week might do the same job. Or there may even be a way to force clearing the BIOS on boot. Paul DS Talking ********. I don't think he is actually. The BIOS is in Flash memory. You don't want to clear that. I think you will find he is referring to the BIOS Data Area I know that. He should refer to things properly. data which are held in a small amount of storage maintained in battery backed CMOS RAM. It has nothing to do with the Flash memory used to hold the BIOS program code itself. The code in the Flash *is* "the BIOS". When you update "the BIOS" you are updating the code in the Flash, not the contents of the "CMOS" as it is sometimes referred to. Yes I realise all that. However I got the impression (admittedly reading a little between the lines) that Paul was really referring to the CMOS battery backed storage rather than the flash, since corrupt CMOS data can bork a machine on startup... however I will let him confirm one way or another. -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
#13
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Booting problem - Toshiba Netbook NB200
John Rumm wrote:
Yes I realise all that. However I got the impression (admittedly reading a little between the lines) that Paul was really referring to the CMOS battery backed storage rather than the flash, since corrupt CMOS data can bork a machine on startup... however I will let him confirm one way or another. That would make a lot of sense. The CMOS RAM needs power to retain its contents and it is likely kept going by a lithium battery. Lithium batteries put out less power when cold, and if allowed to cool in a freezer will stop completely causing the memory to reinitalize when restarted. Geoff. -- Geoffrey S. Mendelson, N3OWJ/4X1GM/KBUH7245/KBUW5379 In 1969 the US could put a man on the moon, now teenagers just howl at it. :-( |
#14
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Booting problem - Toshiba Netbook NB200
Paul D Smith wrote: "News" wrote in message ... In message , Winston writes This looks interesting from http://www.techsupportforum.com/foru...wont-boot-4923 91.html: Thanks for that. Yes, I followed that advice, upgraded the BIOS and it has behaved perfectly since then. Both the solutions (freeze or leave for long time) sound like ways of clearing the BIOS (freezing car radios used to be a way to clear their security codes!). Then they would be cleared every time they sat outside for fifteen minutes in some places. -40F was common when I lived in Alaska. -- You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense. |
#15
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Booting problem - Toshiba Netbook NB200
"Geoffrey S. Mendelson" wrote: John Rumm wrote: Yes I realise all that. However I got the impression (admittedly reading a little between the lines) that Paul was really referring to the CMOS battery backed storage rather than the flash, since corrupt CMOS data can bork a machine on startup... however I will let him confirm one way or another. That would make a lot of sense. The CMOS RAM needs power to retain its contents and it is likely kept going by a lithium battery. Lithium batteries put out less power when cold, and if allowed to cool in a freezer will stop completely causing the memory to reinitalize when restarted. It makes a lot more sense to remove the lithium cell and short out the battery holder. -- You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense. |
#16
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Booting problem - Toshiba Netbook NB200
["Followup-To:" header set to sci.electronics.repair.]
Michael A. Terrell wrote: It makes a lot more sense to remove the lithium cell and short out the battery holder. There is a difference between an explanation making sense, and doing it. :-) Besides, that may not be possible, it may be an integrated CMOS chip and battery. Geoff. -- Geoffrey S. Mendelson, N3OWJ/4X1GM/KBUH7245/KBUW5379 In 1969 the US could put a man on the moon, now teenagers just howl at it. :-( |
#17
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Booting problem - Toshiba Netbook NB200
On 19/04/2012 19:14, Michael A. Terrell wrote:
"Geoffrey S. Mendelson" wrote: John Rumm wrote: Yes I realise all that. However I got the impression (admittedly reading a little between the lines) that Paul was really referring to the CMOS battery backed storage rather than the flash, since corrupt CMOS data can bork a machine on startup... however I will let him confirm one way or another. That would make a lot of sense. The CMOS RAM needs power to retain its contents and it is likely kept going by a lithium battery. Lithium batteries put out less power when cold, and if allowed to cool in a freezer will stop completely causing the memory to reinitalize when restarted. It makes a lot more sense to remove the lithium cell and short out the battery holder. Many motherboards have a jumper for doing just this (easier than removing the cell from its holder). Laptops not always as easy. -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
#18
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Booting problem - Toshiba Netbook NB200
"Geoffrey S. Mendelson" wrote: ["Followup-To:" header set to sci.electronics.repair.] Michael A. Terrell wrote: It makes a lot more sense to remove the lithium cell and short out the battery holder. There is a difference between an explanation making sense, and doing it. :-) Besides, that may not be possible, it may be an integrated CMOS chip and battery. I haven't seen them since the early Pentium days. (Late '90s) In fact, I have pulled the cover off some of those old Dallas RTC modules to remove the dead cell and installed an external socket for the new cell. It was mounted on a small piece of perf board and screwed to one of the blank filler plates. That was over 10 years ago and I don't remember seeing any, since then. I used CapStore RAM to replace those annoying battery backed 2k*8 modules. It had flash RAM, Static RAM and a supercap to allow it to write the contents of the static RAM to the Flash RAM when power was lost. On powerup, it wrote the contents back to the Static RAM. That was for a communications system we built for the space station. Those lithium cells were banned from all aerospace equipment built for NASA. -- You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense. |
#19
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Booting problem - Toshiba Netbook NB200
John Rumm wrote: On 19/04/2012 19:14, Michael A. Terrell wrote: "Geoffrey S. Mendelson" wrote: John Rumm wrote: Yes I realise all that. However I got the impression (admittedly reading a little between the lines) that Paul was really referring to the CMOS battery backed storage rather than the flash, since corrupt CMOS data can bork a machine on startup... however I will let him confirm one way or another. That would make a lot of sense. The CMOS RAM needs power to retain its contents and it is likely kept going by a lithium battery. Lithium batteries put out less power when cold, and if allowed to cool in a freezer will stop completely causing the memory to reinitalize when restarted. It makes a lot more sense to remove the lithium cell and short out the battery holder. Many motherboards have a jumper for doing just this (easier than removing the cell from its holder). Laptops not always as easy. I've repaired hundereds of desktop computers. I have a fairly new Dell laptop with a bad cell. You have to take the damn thing into over 20 pieces to get to it, when it would have been simple to put it under one of the covers on the bottom, or under the battery pack. -- You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense. |
#20
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Booting problem - Toshiba Netbook NB200
On 20/04/2012 14:44, Michael A. Terrell wrote:
John Rumm wrote: On 19/04/2012 19:14, Michael A. Terrell wrote: "Geoffrey S. Mendelson" wrote: John Rumm wrote: Yes I realise all that. However I got the impression (admittedly reading a little between the lines) that Paul was really referring to the CMOS battery backed storage rather than the flash, since corrupt CMOS data can bork a machine on startup... however I will let him confirm one way or another. That would make a lot of sense. The CMOS RAM needs power to retain its contents and it is likely kept going by a lithium battery. Lithium batteries put out less power when cold, and if allowed to cool in a freezer will stop completely causing the memory to reinitalize when restarted. It makes a lot more sense to remove the lithium cell and short out the battery holder. Many motherboards have a jumper for doing just this (easier than removing the cell from its holder). Laptops not always as easy. I've repaired hundereds of desktop computers. I have a fairly new Dell laptop with a bad cell. You have to take the damn thing into over 20 pieces to get to it, when it would have been simple to put it under one of the covers on the bottom, or under the battery pack. There seems to be a *huge* variety of the serviceability of laptops these days... I had a couple recently where the CPU cooler was choked with dust and the fan running poorly. On one (IIRC a stinkpad) you had the have the whole thing to bits in order to get at the right side of the motherboard. On the other (a dell I think) you could take a flap off the bottom, release 4 screws and the whole cooler assembly and heatpipes etc just lifted clear. -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
#21
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Booting problem - Toshiba Netbook NB200
John Rumm wrote: On 20/04/2012 14:44, Michael A. Terrell wrote: John Rumm wrote: On 19/04/2012 19:14, Michael A. Terrell wrote: "Geoffrey S. Mendelson" wrote: John Rumm wrote: Yes I realise all that. However I got the impression (admittedly reading a little between the lines) that Paul was really referring to the CMOS battery backed storage rather than the flash, since corrupt CMOS data can bork a machine on startup... however I will let him confirm one way or another. That would make a lot of sense. The CMOS RAM needs power to retain its contents and it is likely kept going by a lithium battery. Lithium batteries put out less power when cold, and if allowed to cool in a freezer will stop completely causing the memory to reinitalize when restarted. It makes a lot more sense to remove the lithium cell and short out the battery holder. Many motherboards have a jumper for doing just this (easier than removing the cell from its holder). Laptops not always as easy. I've repaired hundereds of desktop computers. I have a fairly new Dell laptop with a bad cell. You have to take the damn thing into over 20 pieces to get to it, when it would have been simple to put it under one of the covers on the bottom, or under the battery pack. There seems to be a *huge* variety of the serviceability of laptops these days... I had a couple recently where the CPU cooler was choked with dust and the fan running poorly. On one (IIRC a stinkpad) you had the have the whole thing to bits in order to get at the right side of the motherboard. On the other (a dell I think) you could take a flap off the bottom, release 4 screws and the whole cooler assembly and heatpipes etc just lifted clear. It's annoying, after manufacturing commercial equipment that was designed to be serviced. A philips screwdriver was all you needed to open the case and remove any module to repair locally or return to the factory. I talked a Ph.D. in Antarctica through a repair, over the internet in 2000. It was a telemetry receiver needed to continue their experiments. They damaged it in shipment, and it would have taken a year to return it to the factory for us to repair it, then send it back on their next supply ship. -- You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense. |
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