Electronics Repair (sci.electronics.repair) Discussion of repairing electronic equipment. Topics include requests for assistance, where to obtain servicing information and parts, techniques for diagnosis and repair, and annecdotes about success, failures and problems.

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Default poor man's pot track cleaner ?

MM Electronics MP175 16 channel mixer , probably the bee's knees in its time
1978.
Minor electronic problem , as only 741s , no great problem.
Also one pot needs replacing but all the pots slider and rotary are
dirty/scratchy and I begrudge wasting 2 aerosol cans on this item -
suggestions?



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Default poor man's pot track cleaner ?

N_Cook wrote:
MM Electronics MP175 16 channel mixer , probably the bee's knees in its time
1978.
Minor electronic problem , as only 741s , no great problem.
Also one pot needs replacing but all the pots slider and rotary are
dirty/scratchy and I begrudge wasting 2 aerosol cans on this item -
suggestions?


You can pick up a tube of DeOxit and a tube of Fader Lube on eBay for about
$25 total including postage, maybe less if you get it directly from a UK vendor.

Put a drop of Fader Lube in each of the sliders and move back and forth a few
times. Add more as needed. If it's still scratchy, add a couple of drops of
DeOxit. Or the other way around DeOxit and then Fader lube. :-)

You'll probably still have most of both of them left when done.

Geoff.


--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, N3OWJ/4X1GM
My high blood pressure medicine reduces my midichlorian count. :-(


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Default poor man's pot track cleaner ?

On Mar 13, 12:16*pm, "N_Cook" wrote:
MM Electronics MP175 16 channel mixer , probably the bee's knees in its time
1978.
Minor electronic problem , as only 741s , no great problem.
Also one pot needs replacing but all the pots slider and rotary are
dirty/scratchy and I begrudge wasting 2 aerosol cans on this item -
suggestions?


Put some Naptha in an eyedropper and squirt that into the pot while
moving the slider thru its full range of motion several time. Wait 30
minues for the Naptha to evaporate, always works for me.
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Default poor man's pot track cleaner ?

In article ,
Winston wrote:

Put some Naptha in an eyedropper and squirt that into the pot while
moving the slider thru its full range of motion several time. Wait 30
minues for the Naptha to evaporate, always works for me.


Naphtha! That stuff is an excellent cleaner & degreaser.
Still available as 'Camp Fuel':

http://zenstoves.net/MSDS/Coleman.htm

Stock up, the stuff is regulated now.


Or, from paint and hardware stores - "VM&P naptha". Even here in
Northern California it's easily available. Might be harder to get in
areas where volatile solvents are more tightly controlled (e.g. Los
Angeles).

--
Dave Platt AE6EO
Friends of Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!


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Default poor man's pot track cleaner ?

I generally never use an aerosol can for cleaning pots/switch contacts.. not
just because it's extremely wasteful, but because the area needing cleaning
usually only needs about 2 drops of DeoxIt.
Applying a flood of cleaner product doesn't get the parts any cleaner, it
just makes a huge mess.
Flooding shafted pots typically rinses away the thick grease in the shaft
bushing and a pot will lose that smooth resistance to turning feel that it
had/should have.

It seems that many people just can't resist the instantaneous push-button
solution for a problem, no matter how much the miracle product costs.
With a push-button cure, many appreciate the instant gratification.

A 5oz (weight) can of DeoxIt lasts a very long time when used sparingly.

I buy the areosol versions of DeoxIt, but I spray the liquids into small
poly bottles which have needle tips (syringes don't work since the rubber
pistons deteriorate/swell from contact with the solvents).

The types of bottles I use are the little retail bottles for dispensing a
drop (foot antifungal or eyedrops products), and I add needle tips to them.
There are small bottles marketed as fishing products for injecting air into
worms so they don't sink, which are supplied with a needle. To prevent
getting cut/jabbed by the sharp point, the needle can be pulled out and
turned around so the point isn't sticking out.

The paste/grease DeoxIt products can be applied with a toothpick or longer
swab stick, although they are handled easily with a syringe fitted with a
large gauge needle (the rubber piston still deteriorates, but the grease
won't leak out like liquid does).

--
WB
..........


"N_Cook" wrote in message
...
MM Electronics MP175 16 channel mixer , probably the bee's knees in its
time
1978.
Minor electronic problem , as only 741s , no great problem.
Also one pot needs replacing but all the pots slider and rotary are
dirty/scratchy and I begrudge wasting 2 aerosol cans on this item -
suggestions?




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Default poor man's pot track cleaner ?

Wild_Bill wrote in message
...
I generally never use an aerosol can for cleaning pots/switch contacts..

not
just because it's extremely wasteful, but because the area needing

cleaning
usually only needs about 2 drops of DeoxIt.
Applying a flood of cleaner product doesn't get the parts any cleaner, it
just makes a huge mess.
Flooding shafted pots typically rinses away the thick grease in the shaft
bushing and a pot will lose that smooth resistance to turning feel that it
had/should have.

It seems that many people just can't resist the instantaneous push-button
solution for a problem, no matter how much the miracle product costs.
With a push-button cure, many appreciate the instant gratification.

A 5oz (weight) can of DeoxIt lasts a very long time when used sparingly.

I buy the areosol versions of DeoxIt, but I spray the liquids into small
poly bottles which have needle tips (syringes don't work since the rubber
pistons deteriorate/swell from contact with the solvents).

The types of bottles I use are the little retail bottles for dispensing a
drop (foot antifungal or eyedrops products), and I add needle tips to

them.
There are small bottles marketed as fishing products for injecting air

into
worms so they don't sink, which are supplied with a needle. To prevent
getting cut/jabbed by the sharp point, the needle can be pulled out and
turned around so the point isn't sticking out.

The paste/grease DeoxIt products can be applied with a toothpick or longer
swab stick, although they are handled easily with a syringe fitted with a
large gauge needle (the rubber piston still deteriorates, but the grease
won't leak out like liquid does).

--
WB
.........


"N_Cook" wrote in message
...
MM Electronics MP175 16 channel mixer , probably the bee's knees in its
time
1978.
Minor electronic problem , as only 741s , no great problem.
Also one pot needs replacing but all the pots slider and rotary are
dirty/scratchy and I begrudge wasting 2 aerosol cans on this item -
suggestions?






For these sorts of situations I make a reducer of sorts from various sizes
of sleeving down to a short length of PTFE 1mm spaghetti tube, great for
getting into switch and pot bodies, Now just to find some naptha and see if
it is too viscous to go down 1mm minus wall thickness


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Default poor man's pot track cleaner ?

Naptha is a very thin solvent and probably still the main ingrediant in
cigarette lighter fluid (and possibly charcoal lighter fluid).

Naptha and other cheap substitute solvents won't provide the same cleaning
qualities or lasting lubrication on pot elements.

Naptha isn't the sort of product I'd want used on any of my equipment. It
will most likely be absorbed by nearby materials, and if something goes
wrong (during or after application) I suspect that the combustibility
ratings of the various otherwise safe materials will be significantly
increased.

I'm no stranger to flammable solvents.. I spent many years working with them
every day and never had a fire incident. There are safety precautions which
must be obeyed to minimize the risk of fires.. and careless storage,
disposal or handling of solvents is asking for trouble.

In the past, I've recommended against the not use of other solvents in
electronic equipment (WD40 is stoddard solvent) for any anecdotal "werks
great for this" problems.

Improvising with a product just because it's cheaper or more conveniently
available isn't rational logic, IMO.
If the electronic gear isn't worth servicing properly, then it would be
better to just sell it for parts.

I've encountered cheap customers that have wanted something
repaired/serviced for almost free since they only paid $2 for it at a flea
market.. and they believe they're being sensible.
I've let them know that they aren't going to waste any more of my time.

--
Cheers,
WB
..............


"N_Cook" wrote in message
...
Wild_Bill wrote in message
...
I generally never use an aerosol can for cleaning pots/switch contacts..
--
WB
.........



For these sorts of situations I make a reducer of sorts from various sizes
of sleeving down to a short length of PTFE 1mm spaghetti tube, great for
getting into switch and pot bodies, Now just to find some naptha and see
if
it is too viscous to go down 1mm minus wall thickness



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Default poor man's pot track cleaner ?

Wild_Bill wrote:
Naptha is a very thin solvent and probably still the main ingrediant in cigarette lighter fluid (and possibly charcoal
lighter fluid).

Naptha and other cheap substitute solvents won't provide the same cleaning qualities or lasting lubrication on pot
elements.


In relation to...?

I agree that naphtha is an excellent solvent and provides no lubrication.
Doubtlessly there are better products available for lubrication after
gunk is liberated from working parts. Naphtha *is* the main
ingredient in DeOxit, only 5% of which appears to be a lubricant.
http://www.jameco.com/Jameco/Product...004%20MSDS.pdf

Naptha isn't the sort of product I'd want used on any of my equipment. It will most likely be absorbed by nearby
materials, and if something goes wrong (during or after application) I suspect that the combustibility ratings of the
various otherwise safe materials will be significantly increased.


Naphtha is extremely volatile and flammable.
Common sense dictates *lots* of ventilation and
separation from sparks and open flame.

In most instances, it dries within minutes and presents no more serious a
hazard than the equipment itself.

I've used it safely for years.

I'm no stranger to flammable solvents.. I spent many years working with them every day and never had a fire incident.
There are safety precautions which must be obeyed to minimize the risk of fires.. and careless storage, disposal or
handling of solvents is asking for trouble.


That's common sense. There is nothing careless about the safe use of solvent though.

In the past, I've recommended against the not use of other solvents in electronic equipment (WD40 is stoddard solvent)
for any anecdotal "werks great for this" problems.


Yes. WD-40 is awful for most purposes.

Improvising with a product just because it's cheaper or more conveniently available isn't rational logic, IMO.
If the electronic gear isn't worth servicing properly, then it would be better to just sell it for parts.


For many cleaning tasks, naphtha is the fastest, most effective, least expensive option.

I've encountered cheap customers that have wanted something repaired/serviced for almost free since they only paid $2
for it at a flea market.. and they believe they're being sensible.
I've let them know that they aren't going to waste any more of my time.


Good on ya.

--Winston
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Default poor man's pot track cleaner ?

I buy the areosol versions of DeoxIt, but I spray the liquids
into small poly bottles which have needle tips (syringes
don't work since the rubber pistons deteriorate/swell from
contact with the solvents).


Why? You can buy them in 1oz needle-tip bottles.




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Default poor man's pot track cleaner ?

I buy aerosol DeoxIt products because they're commonly available without
ordering from places which charge extra handling fees for solvents or
presumed hazardous substances.. but also because I may need the aerosol and
extension tube to use on things other than pots.

Pots don't need pressure blasted or flooded with solvent to correct dried
out/scratchy conditions IME.

--
Cheers,
WB
..............


"William Sommerwerck" wrote in message
...
I buy the areosol versions of DeoxIt, but I spray the liquids
into small poly bottles which have needle tips (syringes
don't work since the rubber pistons deteriorate/swell from
contact with the solvents).


Why? You can buy them in 1oz needle-tip bottles.



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Default poor man's pot track cleaner ?

I've worked on some large pieces of equipment and never needed to empty a
can of any product by cleaning various controls, switches and connectors.

While Nigel may have been exaggerating for emphasis, using 2 cans of
anything doesn't suggest a consciencious effort by an experienced
technician.

What has been suggested is a spray n'pray method of the adage: if a little
bit is good, lots more must be better.

Other than DeoxIt products, there have been an enormous number of washes,
degreasers (non-naptha), cleaners and lubrication/protection/preserver
products from petroleum products to silicones marketed as instant
gratification problem solvers.
I've discovered pots that have been sprayed with some of the weird products
over the years, and I've replaced the controls rather than try to get all of
the old crap cleaned out.

I haven't looked at the chemistry of DeoxIt liquids in quite a while, but I
believe the 2% and 5% relate to their proprietary product (formerly referred
to as Cramolin), and that besides the solvent there are other pH specific
deoxidizers for removing tarnish/oxidation and also lubricants that remain
after the application (after the solvent flashes off).
The solvent is likely in lower concentrations in non-aerosol products, but
since I spray the aerosol into the small bottles, some of the solvent is
released anyway.

Naptha is also widely used as a tar/bug, wax and grease remover.. I used
lots of it wiping down car and truck bodies before beginning any refinishing
work.. and it's fairly easy to use quarts of naptha to clean all the grime
off of an old semi tractor body.
It's a great degreaser, but not what I'd consider close to being a good
choice for applying at a rate of 2 cans worth, to a circuit board or
components in electronic gear.

When I apply a few drops of something I have a good idea of how far it can
spread.. but carelessly flooding controls will wet a lot of nearby
components which may not be solvent-proof.
Naptha isn't a safe-on-plastics solvent like some non-petroleum electrical
degreaser products are.. naptha will burn/lift uncured paint and attack some
plastics.

I'm not sure if naptha will soften the bond under circuit board traces, but
that wouldn't be a good thing to find out.
I've flooded populated boards with alcohols followed by hot water and forced
drying with no apparent damage (actually SOP by an instrument manufacturer I
worked for), but that's about as extreme as I'd go for cleaning.. and
wouldn't consider that action to be good for the reliability of pots or
other controls.

As to the common sense comment.. seen much of that in use lately?
Better referred to as uncommon sense, so folks will know what you're talking
about.

And yet, people burn down their homes every day.. sometimes because they
wanted to get something real clean and had some gasoline handy, or they've
just refinished a piece of furniture or a hobby project.

The ones that make me shake my head are the ones that refuse to hire a
professional to refinish their floors/etc, and burn the place to the ground.

--
Cheers,
WB
..............


"Winston" wrote in message
...
Wild_Bill wrote:
Naptha is a very thin solvent and probably still the main ingrediant in
cigarette lighter fluid (and possibly charcoal
lighter fluid).

Naptha and other cheap substitute solvents won't provide the same
cleaning qualities or lasting lubrication on pot
elements.


In relation to...?

I agree that naphtha is an excellent solvent and provides no lubrication.
Doubtlessly there are better products available for lubrication after
gunk is liberated from working parts. Naphtha *is* the main
ingredient in DeOxit, only 5% of which appears to be a lubricant.
http://www.jameco.com/Jameco/Product...004%20MSDS.pdf

Naptha isn't the sort of product I'd want used on any of my equipment. It
will most likely be absorbed by nearby
materials, and if something goes wrong (during or after application) I
suspect that the combustibility ratings of the
various otherwise safe materials will be significantly increased.


Naphtha is extremely volatile and flammable.
Common sense dictates *lots* of ventilation and
separation from sparks and open flame.

In most instances, it dries within minutes and presents no more serious a
hazard than the equipment itself.

I've used it safely for years.

I'm no stranger to flammable solvents.. I spent many years working with
them every day and never had a fire incident.
There are safety precautions which must be obeyed to minimize the risk of
fires.. and careless storage, disposal or
handling of solvents is asking for trouble.


That's common sense. There is nothing careless about the safe use of
solvent though.

In the past, I've recommended against the not use of other solvents in
electronic equipment (WD40 is stoddard solvent)
for any anecdotal "werks great for this" problems.


Yes. WD-40 is awful for most purposes.

Improvising with a product just because it's cheaper or more conveniently
available isn't rational logic, IMO.
If the electronic gear isn't worth servicing properly, then it would be
better to just sell it for parts.


For many cleaning tasks, naphtha is the fastest, most effective, least
expensive option.

I've encountered cheap customers that have wanted something
repaired/serviced for almost free since they only paid $2
for it at a flea market.. and they believe they're being sensible.
I've let them know that they aren't going to waste any more of my time.


Good on ya.

--Winston


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Default poor man's pot track cleaner ?

I buy aerosol DeoxIt products because ... I may need the aerosol
and extension tube to use on things other than pots.


I buy aerosol DeoxIt products because ... I may need the aerosol
and extension tube to use on things other than pots.


Fine. But the needle-tip bottles cost less per unit weight of active
ingredient.


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Default poor man's pot track cleaner ?

Wild_Bill wrote:
I've worked on some large pieces of equipment and never needed to empty a can of any product by cleaning various
controls, switches and connectors.

While Nigel may have been exaggerating for emphasis, using 2 cans of anything doesn't suggest a consciencious effort by
an experienced technician.

What has been suggested is a spray n'pray method of the adage: if a little bit is good, lots more must be better.

Other than DeoxIt products, there have been an enormous number of washes, degreasers (non-naptha), cleaners and
lubrication/protection/preserver products from petroleum products to silicones marketed as instant gratification problem
solvers.
I've discovered pots that have been sprayed with some of the weird products over the years, and I've replaced the
controls rather than try to get all of the old crap cleaned out.


That *is* frustrating. I recall 'Tuner Cleaner' products I've used Back In The Day.
Some were quite effective. Some are pretty awful.

I haven't looked at the chemistry of DeoxIt liquids in quite a while, but I believe the 2% and 5% relate to their
proprietary product (formerly referred to as Cramolin), and that besides the solvent there are other pH specific
deoxidizers for removing tarnish/oxidation and also lubricants that remain after the application (after the solvent
flashes off).


Trichlor! Cool!
http://217.26.67.168/uploads/8/6/864...prays-disc.pdf

The solvent is likely in lower concentrations in non-aerosol products, but since I spray the aerosol into the small
bottles, some of the solvent is released anyway.

Naptha is also widely used as a tar/bug, wax and grease remover.. I used lots of it wiping down car and truck bodies
before beginning any refinishing work.. and it's fairly easy to use quarts of naptha to clean all the grime off of an
old semi tractor body.
It's a great degreaser, but not what I'd consider close to being a good choice for applying at a rate of 2 cans worth,
to a circuit board or components in electronic gear.


Virtually all products fall into that category.
Exceptions do not readily come to mind.

When I apply a few drops of something I have a good idea of how far it can spread.. but carelessly flooding controls
will wet a lot of nearby components which may not be solvent-proof.


That doesn't sound good.

Naptha isn't a safe-on-plastics solvent like some non-petroleum electrical degreaser products are.. naptha will
burn/lift uncured paint and attack some plastics.


I haven't seen that. I've used it on a wide variety of surfaces
and have not yet seen any issues. The stuff is very gentle on
plastics. Now I *have* used some powerful cleaners on plastics
which I've sorely regretted. That's why I think naphtha is so cool.

I'm not sure if naptha will soften the bond under circuit board traces,


It doesn't. I use 100% naphtha to clean flux off my boards after soldering.
It just cleans the flux off and drys very quickly.

but that wouldn't be a good thing to find out.
I've flooded populated boards with alcohols followed by hot water and forced drying with no apparent damage (actually
SOP by an instrument manufacturer I worked for), but that's about as extreme as I'd go for cleaning.. and wouldn't
consider that action to be good for the reliability of pots or other controls.


Good.

As to the common sense comment.. seen much of that in use lately?
Better referred to as uncommon sense, so folks will know what you're talking about.

And yet, people burn down their homes every day.. sometimes because they wanted to get something real clean and had some
gasoline handy, or they've just refinished a piece of furniture or a hobby project.

The ones that make me shake my head are the ones that refuse to hire a professional to refinish their floors/etc, and
burn the place to the ground.


I'll take your word for it.

--Winston
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Default poor man's pot track cleaner ?

On Wed, 14 Mar 2012 08:30:48 -0000, "N_Cook" wrote:



For these sorts of situations I make a reducer of sorts from various sizes
of sleeving down to a short length of PTFE 1mm spaghetti tube, great for
getting into switch and pot bodies, Now just to find some naptha and see if
it is too viscous to go down 1mm minus wall thickness

Naptha will flow clear down past 0.1 mm pipes.

?-)
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