Electronics Repair (sci.electronics.repair) Discussion of repairing electronic equipment. Topics include requests for assistance, where to obtain servicing information and parts, techniques for diagnosis and repair, and annecdotes about success, failures and problems.

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Default Singer 513 "Stylist" sewing machine

Our sewing machine broke a needle while my wife was sewing the other
day. Upon investigation I found that the gear at the bottom of the
bobbin assembly on the vertical shaft had lost some teeth. I tried to
locate a replacement locally however the teeth in my gear are straight
while the new replacements are apparently helical and are sold in
sets. One gear goes on the vertical, (bobbin) shaft and one goes on
the horizontal shaft.

While I realize that it is recommended that both gears be replaced, I
would like to only replace the broken one. I can always replace the
other if the situation should ever arise. The problem is that a new
helical gear for the bobbin vertical shaft naturally will not mesh
with the existing straight tooth gear on the horizontal shaft.

We have owned this machine since 1975 and it's been a great little
unit. It is built well and I have always kept it lubricated. I have
also repaired it several times as well. There are two other plastic
gears on the horizontal shafts that I have replaced before and those
are fine. At the time I replaced those gears I was given the procedure
for timing the machine by a very helpful singer repairman from out of
state. Without that important piece of information I would never have
been able to complete that repair.

Now I'm faced with this new repair and re timing issue. Can anyone
please help me first with a source for an "old style" gear
replacement? Also I'm not certain that I can apply the procedure I
presently have for timing the gears on the two horizontal shafts to my
present situation. If anyone could please help me with that as well I
would be very grateful. Thanks in advance for any assistance. Lenny
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Default Singer 513 "Stylist" sewing machine

klem kedidelhopper wrote in message
...
Our sewing machine broke a needle while my wife was sewing the other
day. Upon investigation I found that the gear at the bottom of the
bobbin assembly on the vertical shaft had lost some teeth. I tried to
locate a replacement locally however the teeth in my gear are straight
while the new replacements are apparently helical and are sold in
sets. One gear goes on the vertical, (bobbin) shaft and one goes on
the horizontal shaft.

While I realize that it is recommended that both gears be replaced, I
would like to only replace the broken one. I can always replace the
other if the situation should ever arise. The problem is that a new
helical gear for the bobbin vertical shaft naturally will not mesh
with the existing straight tooth gear on the horizontal shaft.

We have owned this machine since 1975 and it's been a great little
unit. It is built well and I have always kept it lubricated. I have
also repaired it several times as well. There are two other plastic
gears on the horizontal shafts that I have replaced before and those
are fine. At the time I replaced those gears I was given the procedure
for timing the machine by a very helpful singer repairman from out of
state. Without that important piece of information I would never have
been able to complete that repair.

Now I'm faced with this new repair and re timing issue. Can anyone
please help me first with a source for an "old style" gear
replacement? Also I'm not certain that I can apply the procedure I
presently have for timing the gears on the two horizontal shafts to my
present situation. If anyone could please help me with that as well I
would be very grateful. Thanks in advance for any assistance. Lenny




I/ve no idea of the torques involved but assuming low enough you can take a
"plug" off a good part of the original gear, then a mould negative, fit over
the broken section and a couple of small pins and epoxy to cast a new
section, then fettle


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Default Singer 513 "Stylist" sewing machine

On Jan 23, 2:51*pm, klem kedidelhopper
wrote:
Our sewing machine broke a needle while my wife was sewing the other
day. Upon investigation I found that the gear at the bottom of *the
bobbin assembly on the vertical shaft had lost some teeth. I tried to
locate a replacement locally however the teeth in my gear are straight
while the new replacements are apparently helical and are sold in
sets. One gear goes on the vertical, (bobbin) shaft and one goes on
the horizontal shaft.

While I realize that it is recommended that both gears be replaced, I
would like to only replace the broken one. I can always replace the
other if the situation should ever arise. The problem is that a new
helical gear for the bobbin vertical shaft *naturally will not mesh
with the existing straight tooth gear on the horizontal shaft.

We have owned this machine since 1975 and it's been a great little
unit. It is built well and I have always kept it lubricated. I have
also repaired it several times as well. There are two other plastic
gears on the horizontal shafts that I have replaced before and those
are fine. At the time I replaced those gears I was given the procedure
for timing the machine by a very helpful singer repairman from out of
state. Without that important piece of information I would never have
been able to complete that repair.

Now I'm faced with this new repair and re timing issue. Can anyone
please help me first with a source for an "old style" gear
replacement? Also I'm not certain that I can apply the procedure I
presently have for timing the gears on the two horizontal shafts to my
present situation. If anyone could please help me with that as well I
would be very grateful. Thanks in advance for any assistance. Lenny


Have you considered the likelihood that the helical gears are a better
solution for your machine, less likely to have teeth break off and
damage needles? The straight gears were cheaper to make, perhaps, but
the cost of replacement parts can justify new tooling. Perhaps the
helical gears make it easier to time, as well.

Rather than try to find some Singer dealers who hang on to their NOS
forever, why not just buy the new pair and mount them? The important
thing when a piece of well used and loved equipment breaks down, is to
get it back working ASAP.
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Default Singer 513 "Stylist" sewing machine

On Jan 24, 3:37*am, spamtrap1888 wrote:
On Jan 23, 2:51*pm, klem kedidelhopper
wrote:



Our sewing machine broke a needle while my wife was sewing the other
day. Upon investigation I found that the gear at the bottom of *the
bobbin assembly on the vertical shaft had lost some teeth. I tried to
locate a replacement locally however the teeth in my gear are straight
while the new replacements are apparently helical and are sold in
sets. One gear goes on the vertical, (bobbin) shaft and one goes on
the horizontal shaft.


While I realize that it is recommended that both gears be replaced, I
would like to only replace the broken one. I can always replace the
other if the situation should ever arise. The problem is that a new
helical gear for the bobbin vertical shaft *naturally will not mesh
with the existing straight tooth gear on the horizontal shaft.


We have owned this machine since 1975 and it's been a great little
unit. It is built well and I have always kept it lubricated. I have
also repaired it several times as well. There are two other plastic
gears on the horizontal shafts that I have replaced before and those
are fine. At the time I replaced those gears I was given the procedure
for timing the machine by a very helpful singer repairman from out of
state. Without that important piece of information I would never have
been able to complete that repair.


Now I'm faced with this new repair and re timing issue. Can anyone
please help me first with a source for an "old style" gear
replacement? Also I'm not certain that I can apply the procedure I
presently have for timing the gears on the two horizontal shafts to my
present situation. If anyone could please help me with that as well I
would be very grateful. Thanks in advance for any assistance. Lenny


Have you considered the likelihood that the helical gears are a better
solution for your machine, less likely to have teeth break off and
damage needles? The straight gears were cheaper to make, perhaps, but
the cost of replacement parts can justify new tooling. Perhaps the
helical gears make it easier to time, as well.

Rather than try to find some Singer dealers who hang on to their NOS
forever, why not just buy the new pair and mount them? The important
thing when a piece of well used and loved equipment breaks down, is to
get it back working ASAP.


While I would agree with you that helical gears in general are a
better design, I don't think that they would be easier to time. That
part of the job would be a wash. But disturbing the other gear that
meshes with this one creates a second timing problem along with a
great deal more work as well. If this was a customer repair I would
not want to be married to this thing and so I would not do it this
way. If the other gear should ever fail in the future then we'll break
another needle and I'll have to get into this anyway so for the time
being that's why I figured on just doing the one gear. Lenny
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Default Singer 513 "Stylist" sewing machine

On Jan 23, 4:51*pm, klem kedidelhopper
wrote:
Our sewing machine broke a needle while my wife was sewing the other
day. Upon investigation I found that the gear at the bottom of *the
bobbin assembly on the vertical shaft had lost some teeth. I tried to
locate a replacement locally however the teeth in my gear are straight
while the new replacements are apparently helical and are sold in
sets. One gear goes on the vertical, (bobbin) shaft and one goes on
the horizontal shaft.

While I realize that it is recommended that both gears be replaced, I
would like to only replace the broken one. I can always replace the
other if the situation should ever arise. The problem is that a new
helical gear for the bobbin vertical shaft *naturally will not mesh
with the existing straight tooth gear on the horizontal shaft.

We have owned this machine since 1975 and it's been a great little
unit. It is built well and I have always kept it lubricated. I have
also repaired it several times as well. There are two other plastic
gears on the horizontal shafts that I have replaced before and those
are fine. At the time I replaced those gears I was given the procedure
for timing the machine by a very helpful singer repairman from out of
state. Without that important piece of information I would never have
been able to complete that repair.

Now I'm faced with this new repair and re timing issue. Can anyone
please help me first with a source for an "old style" gear
replacement? Also I'm not certain that I can apply the procedure I
presently have for timing the gears on the two horizontal shafts to my
present situation. If anyone could please help me with that as well I
would be very grateful. Thanks in advance for any assistance. Lenny


For timing, note how many degrees the handwheel turns between the
needle starting to go back up and when the hook on the bobbin goes
past the needle to catch the thread. If the timing is already shot,
then take a look at another similar sewing machine. On my wife's
machine, the needle has just started to go back up when the pointy end
of the bobbin holder goes past and snags the thread that is sticking
out the side of the neeedle.


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Default Singer 513 "Stylist" sewing machine

On Mon, 23 Jan 2012 14:51:27 -0800 (PST), klem kedidelhopper
wrote:

(...)
Now I'm faced with this new repair and re timing issue. Can anyone
please help me first with a source for an "old style" gear
replacement? Also I'm not certain that I can apply the procedure I
presently have for timing the gears on the two horizontal shafts to my
present situation. If anyone could please help me with that as well I
would be very grateful. Thanks in advance for any assistance. Lenny


Mr Kedidelhopper ruined my afternoon with an email requesting my input
on this. Unfortunately, I'm interested as I'm slooooooowly drifting
into the sewing machine repair biz (since computer repair sucks right
now). At this time, I'm into the Learn by Destroying mode.

I found this video showing how to replace the hook drive gears and how
to adjust the timing.
http://www.sewingpartsonline.com/hook-drive-gear-set-singer-103361as.aspx
If you watch the video, it's fairly straight forward, but not simple.
Due to the complexity of disassembly, maintaining the timing is not
going to happen. In addition, both meshing gears should be replaced
as the existing "good" gear is almost certainly worn and will be a
poor fit for the new gear.

When I work on such an older machine, I often find more parts that
could use replacement. There are other pairs of gears in the 513 that
might be worth replacing as preventive maintenance. The parts are
cheap, but the time to tear it apart is not.

Reminder: Use a digital camera to take photos BEFORE you tear it
apart, so that you have a fair chance at putting it back together. I
also make an 8.5x11 print of the guts and place it on a sheet of
styrofoam. As I remove parts and screws, I push them through the
print and into the styrofoam, so that I know exactly where the fit.

Unfortunately methinks there's a problem with the video. The author
ends the video by plastering copious quantities of grease onto the
plastic gears. In my never humble opinion, this is a bad idea. Many
plastic gears will be attacked by the solvents in the grease and
crumble. In particular, nylon gears are easily eaten by grease.

Here's an article that largely substantiates my pontifications:
http://www.theuniversalthreadholder.com/oil_and_grease_lubrication.html
Gears, on the other hand, require grease. Of course,
not just any kind of grease, but sewing machine grease.
Singer offers a very good light grease available in a
small squeeze tube called (what else?) Singer Lubricant.
I highly recommend it. But only for steel gears. Plastic
gears do not, and should not, require lubrication.
Translation: Don't grease the plastic gears, just the metal to metal
gears.

--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831-336-2558
# http://802.11junk.com
#
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS
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Default Singer 513 "Stylist" sewing machine

On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 19:15:19 -0800, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

Unfortunately methinks there's a problem with the video. The author
ends the video by plastering copious quantities of grease onto the
plastic gears. In my never humble opinion, this is a bad idea. Many
plastic gears will be attacked by the solvents in the grease and
crumble. In particular, nylon gears are easily eaten by grease.


Clarification time. There are several plastic safe greases available.
White lithium grease and white grease with Teflon are both safe.
Silicon grease, molybdenum disulfide and many synthetic greases are
also safe. Soap will also work. What isn't plastic safe are greases
loaded with petroleum solvents, such as axle grease, engine oil, etc.

Incidentally, the official HP policy for their printers is to NOT use
any lubricants:
http://h20000.www2.hp.com/bizsupport/TechSupport/Document.jsp?lang=en&cc=us&objectID=bpl08216

--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831-336-2558
# http://802.11junk.com
#
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS
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Default Singer 513 "Stylist" sewing machine

On Jan 25, 3:41*am, (Adrian
Tuddenham) wrote:
wrote:
On Jan 23, 4:51*pm, klem kedidelhopper
wrote:

*[...]
... On my wife's
machine, the needle has just started to go back up when the pointy end
of the bobbin holder goes past and snags the thread that is sticking
out the side of the neeedle.


That is the critical point (no pun!): *As the needle starts to rise it
throws out a tiny loop of slack thread which the bobbin hook is supposed
to catch. *If the hook goes past before the needle has risen, the thread
will still be tight against the side of the needle and the hook will
miss it.

--
~ Adrian Tuddenham ~
(Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)www.poppyrecords.co.uk


I think I see what you guys are talking about. I can compare another
working machine I have here to this. It is also a Singer but slightly
different. The bobbin assembly mounts on end rather than lying flat
but it seems like catching the bobbin thread should still work the
same way. Thanks a bunch. Lenny
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Default Singer 513 "Stylist" sewing machine

klem kedidelhopper wrote:

On Jan 25, 3:41*am, (Adrian
Tuddenham) wrote:
wrote:
On Jan 23, 4:51*pm, klem kedidelhopper
wrote:

*[...]
... On my wife's
machine, the needle has just started to go back up when the pointy end
of the bobbin holder goes past and snags the thread that is sticking
out the side of the neeedle.


That is the critical point (no pun!): *As the needle starts to rise it
throws out a tiny loop of slack thread which the bobbin hook is supposed
to catch. *If the hook goes past before the needle has risen, the thread
will still be tight against the side of the needle and the hook will
miss it.

--
~ Adrian Tuddenham ~
(Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)www.poppyrecords.co.uk


I think I see what you guys are talking about. I can compare another
working machine I have here to this. It is also a Singer but slightly
different. The bobbin assembly mounts on end rather than lying flat
but it seems like catching the bobbin thread should still work the
same way. Thanks a bunch. Lenny


It is the upper thread which is caught and pulled around the bobbin, not
the bobbin thread.

The principle is common to most lockstich machines, sometimes the bobbin
case is in the form of a long shuttle, which plunges bodily through the
thread loop of the needle. Sometimes the bobbin stays still in the
centre of a ring; the ring rotates or oscillates and a notch in the
outer edge acts as a hook to catch the needle thread and pull it around
the bobbin holder.

As you say, the rotating or oscillating hook ring and the bobbin can be
in the vertical or the horizontal plane, but the timing is the same.
Some layouts are easier for the manufacturer to make, some are easier to
drive and others are easier for the operator to thread-up or clean.
(I'm sure some of the more bizarre arrangments are just a way of getting
around a patent.) A continously-rotating ring causes less vibration
than an oscillating one, so that tends to be used on higher-speed
machines.

Good luck with the repair.


--
~ Adrian Tuddenham ~
(Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
www.poppyrecords.co.uk


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Default Singer 513 "Stylist" sewing machine

On Wed, 25 Jan 2012 13:32:57 -0800 (PST), klem kedidelhopper
wrote:

I think I see what you guys are talking about. I can compare another
working machine I have here to this.


Some of these videos on how it works might help:
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Singer+sewing+machine+timing
Careful. Some of these videos are really awful.

This isn't a 513, but shows how it should work when properly adjusted:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzhR6PNlI4E



--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831-336-2558
# http://802.11junk.com
#
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS
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