Happened to try a seldom-used tv remote control last night, dead.
opened it up, one 2013 AA Energizer battery was fine, the other was
dead and leaking. I stupidly thought that the date on batterries was
how long they were supposed to last if they were not used - shelf
life.

Since the battery was not used more than a few minutes since it was
put in the remote a couple of years ago, and had been in an air-
conditioned and heated room in the house for its entire time since I
brought it home from the store, I thought that it was safe to leave it
in the remote without having to periodically check for leakage.
Fortunately, the leakage was minor and because of the physical
position of the remote, the leakage went onto the inside of the back
cover and did not get into the electronics in the remote.

Just thought I would post it here as a reminder not to assume anything
about battery life.

wrote in message
...
Happened to try a seldom-used tv remote control last night, dead.
opened it up, one 2013 AA Energizer battery was fine, the other was
dead and leaking. I stupidly thought that the date on batterries was
how long they were supposed to last if they were not used - shelf
life.


A few days ago a relative asked me to find a rear bicyle lamp for them, the
only one I could find contained a pair of Energiser AA marked "best before
2008" - apart from being dead flat there was no sign of deterioration.

Ian Field wrote:

A few days ago a relative asked me to find a rear bicyle lamp for them, the
only one I could find contained a pair of Energiser AA marked "best before
2008" - apart from being dead flat there was no sign of deterioration.

It depends upon where the batteries are made. From what I see, the ones made
in the EU (Belgium to be exact) are fine, the ones made in Singapore are not.
I don't know what are sold in the US.

My guess is that some places sell ones made in the US, and some places
sell ones made in Singapore. It also would not surprise me if there are
ones made in Hong Kong, or mainland China, which are fakes sold at flea
markets, etc.

Geoff.


--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, N3OWJ/4X1GM
My high blood pressure medicine reduces my midichlorian count. :-(

wrote:
Happened to try a seldom-used tv remote control last night, dead.
opened it up, one 2013 AA Energizer battery was fine, the other was
dead and leaking. I stupidly thought that the date on batterries was
how long they were supposed to last if they were not used - shelf
life.

Since the battery was not used more than a few minutes since it was
put in the remote a couple of years ago, and had been in an air-
conditioned and heated room in the house for its entire time since I
brought it home from the store, I thought that it was safe to leave it
in the remote without having to periodically check for leakage.
Fortunately, the leakage was minor and because of the physical
position of the remote, the leakage went onto the inside of the back
cover and did not get into the electronics in the remote.

Just thought I would post it here as a reminder not to assume anything
about battery life.


Before you blame the batteries check that no current is being drawn in
the rest state of the device.

If the remote was drawing power (say 10 - 100ma) when just sitting
around then you would get that result - leaky batteries no matter what
make.

John :-#)#

--
(Please post followups or tech enquiries to the newsgroup)
John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9
Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
www.flippers.com
"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."

On Sun, 1 Jan 2012 08:53:32 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

Happened to try a seldom-used tv remote control last night, dead.
opened it up, one 2013 AA Energizer battery was fine, the other was
dead and leaking.

That's a standard magnesium dioxide and zinc alkaline battery. Rated
shelf life is 7 years, so it should have lasted. Weird.

How it failed:
http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/2002-01/1011285710.Eg.r.html

Some marginal drivel with some interesting stuff mixed in:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?171520-Leaking-alkaline-batteries

Energizer alkaline batteries:
http://data.energizer.com/PDFs/alkaline_appman.pdf

I stupidly thought that the date on batterries was
how long they were supposed to last if they were not used - shelf
life.

Humor me and insert an amps guesser in series with the batteries on
the remote. Does it draw any current in standby? Any chance that
someone put something on top of the remote and pressed one of the
buttons for an extended period? Measure the current the remote draws
when you punch a button and estimate the battery life (2A-hr) assuming
continuous accidental operation.

Another anecdote for the collection. My palatial office building
includes a maintenance closet, where we store several emergency
flashlights. It's a random assortment of alkaline D cells in mostly
plastic flashlights with incandescent bulbs. The batteries will first
swell and then leak after about a year, even if not used. It doesn't
seem to matter what brand of battery, they always leak. This has been
going on for about 20 years. My guess(tm) is that one of the volatile
cleaning chemicals stored in the closet is attacking the batteries. We
put all but one flashlight inside zip loc bags to see if that helps.
Too soon to tell as it's only been about 3 months.

Since the battery was not used more than a few minutes since it was
put in the remote a couple of years ago, and had been in an air-
conditioned and heated room in the house for its entire time since I
brought it home from the store, I thought that it was safe to leave it
in the remote without having to periodically check for leakage.

Has anyone been using spray cleaner on the remote or nearby? That's
my guess(tm) as to the culprit.

Fortunately, the leakage was minor and because of the physical
position of the remote, the leakage went onto the inside of the back
cover and did not get into the electronics in the remote.

I had the not so bright idea of wrapping my batteries in cellophane
wrap when installed in devices that I care about (Geiger counters,
instruments, test equipment, emergency radios, GPS, etc). The problem
was that the batteries usually leak from the end terminal area, which
cannot be covered with cellophane wrap. Oops. My next attempt will
probably be to add a sponge at both ends of the battery (with a hole
in the center for the connection). The plan is to localize the
damage, not prevent it. Maybe seal the battery compartment.

Just thought I would post it here as a reminder not to assume anything
about battery life.

There should be a warranty on the batteries.
http://www.energizerbatteries.com/WarrantyInformation.pdf
Ugh... 1 year.


--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Jeff Liebermann wrote:

I had the not so bright idea of wrapping my batteries in cellophane
wrap when installed in devices that I care about (Geiger counters,
instruments, test equipment, emergency radios, GPS, etc). The problem
was that the batteries usually leak from the end terminal area, which
cannot be covered with cellophane wrap. Oops. My next attempt will
probably be to add a sponge at both ends of the battery (with a hole
in the center for the connection). The plan is to localize the
damage, not prevent it. Maybe seal the battery compartment.

Unless they are flashlights and you need to turn them on to see them,
then why not just wrap the batteries in ziplock bags? Or if you have a
vacuum sealing machine, one of their bags?

When I was traveling, I had a suitcase packed and in it a kit with various
things I would want, such as an electric kettle, a small portable radio,
a flashlight (so that I was not stuck in the dark in a strange place
because I did not know where the light switch was) and so on.

I was careful to choose devices that used the same batteries, and keep them
in a ziplock bag. In order to not have to go searching for them, I kept
the devices and the bag of batteries all in one larger ziplock bag.

At one time I had a cellphone that used AA cells but that was a long time
ago. I don't think you can get one now.

About six months ago I replaced the D cells in my backup AM/FM home radio
(a GE SRIII) with AA cells in adaptors. Last week I took them out. They
did not leak, but one of them was was swollen enough I had to push it out.

Geoff.

--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, N3OWJ/4X1GM
My high blood pressure medicine reduces my midichlorian count. :-(

On Jan 1, 11:50*am, John Robertson wrote:
wrote:
Happened to try a seldom-used tv remote control last night, dead.
opened it up, one 2013 AA Energizer battery was fine, the other was
dead and leaking. *I stupidly thought that the date on batterries was
how long they were supposed to last if they were not used - shelf
life.

Since the battery was not used more than a few minutes since it was
put in the remote a couple of years ago, and had been in an air-
conditioned and heated room in the house for its entire time since I
brought it home from the store, I thought that it was safe to leave it
in the remote without having to periodically check for leakage.
Fortunately, the leakage was minor and because of the physical
position of the remote, the leakage went onto the inside of the back
cover and did not get into the electronics in the remote.

Just thought I would post it here as a reminder not to assume anything
about battery life.

Before you blame the batteries check that no current is being drawn in
the rest state of the device.

If the remote was drawing power (say 10 - 100ma) when just sitting
around then you would get that result - leaky batteries no matter what
make.

John :-#)#

--
* * (Please post followups or tech enquiries to the newsgroup)
* John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9
* Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
* * * * * * * * * * *www.flippers.com
* * * *"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Good pont about the idle/leakage current. I just checked it, 25 ma
draw when pushing a button, 0 ua standby, so I guess idle/leakage
current is out of the picture.

On Jan 1, 12:23*pm, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sun, 1 Jan 2012 08:53:32 -0800 (PST), "

wrote:
Happened to try a seldom-used tv remote control last night, dead.
opened it up, one 2013 AA Energizer battery was fine, the other was
dead and leaking.

That's a standard magnesium dioxide and zinc alkaline battery. *Rated
shelf life is 7 years, so it should have lasted. *Weird.

How it failed:
http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/2002-01/1011285710.Eg.r.html

Some marginal drivel with some interesting stuff mixed in:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?171520-Leaking-alk...

Energizer alkaline batteries:
http://data.energizer.com/PDFs/alkaline_appman.pdf

I stupidly thought that the date on batterries was
how long they were supposed to last if they were not used - shelf
life.

Humor me and insert an amps guesser in series with the batteries on
the remote. *Does it draw any current in standby? *Any chance that
someone put something on top of the remote and pressed one of the
buttons for an extended period? *Measure the current the remote draws
when you punch a button and estimate the battery life (2A-hr) assuming
continuous accidental operation.

Another anecdote for the collection. *My palatial office building
includes a maintenance closet, where we store several emergency
flashlights. *It's a random assortment of alkaline D cells in mostly
plastic flashlights with incandescent bulbs. *The batteries will first
swell and then leak after about a year, even if not used. *It doesn't
seem to matter what brand of battery, they always leak. *This has been
going on for about 20 years. *My guess(tm) is that one of the volatile
cleaning chemicals stored in the closet is attacking the batteries. We
put all but one flashlight inside zip loc bags to see if that helps.
Too soon to tell as it's only been about 3 months.

Since the battery was not used more than a few minutes since it was
put in the remote a couple of years ago, and had been in an air-
conditioned and heated room in the house for its entire time since I
brought it home from the store, I thought that it was safe to leave it
in the remote without having to periodically check for leakage.

Has anyone been using spray cleaner on the remote or nearby? *That's
my guess(tm) as to the culprit.

Fortunately, the leakage was minor and because of the physical
position of the remote, the leakage went onto the inside of the back
cover and did not get into the electronics in the remote.

I had the not so bright idea of wrapping my batteries in cellophane
wrap when installed in devices that I care about (Geiger counters,
instruments, test equipment, emergency radios, GPS, etc). *The problem
was that the batteries usually leak from the end terminal area, which
cannot be covered with cellophane wrap. *Oops. *My next attempt will
probably be to add a sponge at both ends of the battery (with a hole
in the center for the connection). *The plan is to localize the
damage, not prevent it. *Maybe seal the battery compartment.

Just thought I would post it here as a reminder not to assume anything
about battery life.

There should be a warranty on the batteries.
http://www.energizerbatteries.com/WarrantyInformation.pdf
Ugh... *1 year.

--
Jeff Liebermann * *
150 Felker St #D * *http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann * * AE6KS * *831-336-2558

See my reply to John, I wish I had seen some leakage (current that is,
not chemical).

"Geoffrey S. Mendelson" wrote in
:

Jeff Liebermann wrote:

I had the not so bright idea of wrapping my batteries in cellophane
wrap when installed in devices that I care about (Geiger counters,
instruments, test equipment, emergency radios, GPS, etc). The
problem was that the batteries usually leak from the end terminal
area, which cannot be covered with cellophane wrap. Oops. My next
attempt will probably be to add a sponge at both ends of the battery
(with a hole in the center for the connection). The plan is to
localize the damage, not prevent it. Maybe seal the battery
compartment.

Unless they are flashlights and you need to turn them on to see them,
then why not just wrap the batteries in ziplock bags? Or if you have a
vacuum sealing machine, one of their bags?

When I was traveling, I had a suitcase packed and in it a kit with
various things I would want, such as an electric kettle, a small
portable radio, a flashlight (so that I was not stuck in the dark in a
strange place because I did not know where the light switch was) and
so on.

I was careful to choose devices that used the same batteries, and keep
them in a ziplock bag. In order to not have to go searching for them,
I kept the devices and the bag of batteries all in one larger ziplock
bag.

At one time I had a cellphone that used AA cells but that was a long
time ago. I don't think you can get one now.

About six months ago I replaced the D cells in my backup AM/FM home
radio (a GE SRIII) with AA cells in adaptors. Last week I took them
out. They did not leak, but one of them was was swollen enough I had
to push it out.

Geoff.


I wonder if a protective GREASE would keep the electrolyte from harming the
contacts,which seems to be what takes the most damage from leakage.
Maybe a thin coat of Vaseline or other grease would work.
it might even neutralize the electrolyte.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com

"Jim Yanik" wrote in message
4...
"Geoffrey S. Mendelson" wrote in
:

Jeff Liebermann wrote:

I had the not so bright idea of wrapping my batteries in cellophane
wrap when installed in devices that I care about (Geiger counters,
instruments, test equipment, emergency radios, GPS, etc). The
problem was that the batteries usually leak from the end terminal
area, which cannot be covered with cellophane wrap. Oops. My next
attempt will probably be to add a sponge at both ends of the battery
(with a hole in the center for the connection). The plan is to
localize the damage, not prevent it. Maybe seal the battery
compartment.

Unless they are flashlights and you need to turn them on to see them,
then why not just wrap the batteries in ziplock bags? Or if you have a
vacuum sealing machine, one of their bags?

When I was traveling, I had a suitcase packed and in it a kit with
various things I would want, such as an electric kettle, a small
portable radio, a flashlight (so that I was not stuck in the dark in a
strange place because I did not know where the light switch was) and
so on.

I was careful to choose devices that used the same batteries, and keep
them in a ziplock bag. In order to not have to go searching for them,
I kept the devices and the bag of batteries all in one larger ziplock
bag.

At one time I had a cellphone that used AA cells but that was a long
time ago. I don't think you can get one now.

About six months ago I replaced the D cells in my backup AM/FM home
radio (a GE SRIII) with AA cells in adaptors. Last week I took them
out. They did not leak, but one of them was was swollen enough I had
to push it out.

Geoff.


I wonder if a protective GREASE would keep the electrolyte from harming
the
contacts,which seems to be what takes the most damage from leakage.

Silicone spray helps a bit.

On Sun, 1 Jan 2012 18:44:04 +0000 (UTC), "Geoffrey S. Mendelson"
wrote:

Jeff Liebermann wrote:

I had the not so bright idea of wrapping my batteries in cellophane
wrap when installed in devices that I care about (Geiger counters,
instruments, test equipment, emergency radios, GPS, etc). The problem
was that the batteries usually leak from the end terminal area, which
cannot be covered with cellophane wrap. Oops. My next attempt will
probably be to add a sponge at both ends of the battery (with a hole
in the center for the connection). The plan is to localize the
damage, not prevent it. Maybe seal the battery compartment.

Unless they are flashlights and you need to turn them on to see them,
then why not just wrap the batteries in ziplock bags? Or if you have a
vacuum sealing machine, one of their bags?

Good question with a complicated answer. The short version is that we
need at least 5 functional flashlights in the maintenance closet,
which is also crammed full of various emergency supplies. I've been
trying to get the cleaning supplies out of this closet for maybe 10
years, without success.

Leaving the batteries outside the flashlights is possible. However, I
suspect it would be difficult to find the batteries and flashlight in
the dark, without at least one functional flashlight. Last time we
had a drill, some people walked off with flashlights but no batteries.
They didn't realize that they didn't function until much later. There
are also some scanners, a WX radio, gas detectors, etc in the closet.
All have batteries that eventually leak. Every summer, I get to
remove everything, check for leakage (and theft), and provide the
necessary repairs. We rotate the batteries every 2 years, but I
haven't bothered to test the ones I remove.

When I was traveling, I had a suitcase packed and in it a kit with various
things I would want, such as an electric kettle, a small portable radio,
a flashlight (so that I was not stuck in the dark in a strange place
because I did not know where the light switch was) and so on.

I carry a key chain LED light, an LED mini Maglight, and a Ray-o-Vac
head light. Actually, I have several head lights, one attached to my
hard hat, and another at my workbench. The headlight is much more
useful since it points to where I'm looking, and leaves both hands
free to work. I also have a hand crank no-battery flashlight, but
that's to keep the kids occupied.

I was careful to choose devices that used the same batteries, and keep them
in a ziplock bag. In order to not have to go searching for them, I kept
the devices and the bag of batteries all in one larger ziplock bag.

Good idea, but not very practical for my setup. I just carry lots of
spare batteries. When we had the earthquake here in 1989, FEMA was
passing out tons of D cell batteries for flashlights, and nothing
else. You couldn't find a AA battery for about 2 weeks. Lesson
learned is to stock everything.

At one time I had a cellphone that used AA cells but that was a long time
ago. I don't think you can get one now.

Yeah, I had a Rotomola flip phone with a AA alkaline battery pack. It
worked, and was about right for the time. These days, everything is
3.7V Li-Ion. The trick is to carry a DC charger, and find a source of
12V to charge the battery. During a recent week long power outage in
this area, I had several spare batteries and was recharging them in
the car as I drove. I also have a hand crank charger, but again,
that's to keep the kids busy. I have a similar system for the laptop.
If I have time, I may even rewire the bicycle trainer into a generator
suitable for operating the TV or charging the laptop.

About six months ago I replaced the D cells in my backup AM/FM home radio
(a GE SRIII) with AA cells in adaptors. Last week I took them out. They
did not leak, but one of them was was swollen enough I had to push it out.

Ouch. They bulge first, then leak. Here's the chemistry:
http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/2002-01/1011285710.Eg.r.html

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Sun, 1 Jan 2012 10:51:36 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

Good pont about the idle/leakage current. I just checked it, 25 ma
draw when pushing a button, 0 ua standby, so I guess idle/leakage
current is out of the picture.

Well, if your remote uses 2 batteries, you would have a total of 4000
ma-hr of capacity. At a 25ma draw, that's
4000 / 25 = 160 hrs = 6.67 days
if someone sat on a remote button.

Could I trouble you to double check the standby current, possibly with
a more sensitive amps guesser? To drain the 4000 ma-hr batteries in 2
years (17,520 hrs), you only need:
4000 / 17520 = 228 ua
of leakage.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Jan 1, 4:28*pm, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sun, 1 Jan 2012 10:51:36 -0800 (PST), "

wrote:
Good pont about the idle/leakage current. *I just checked it, 25 ma
draw when pushing a button, 0 ua standby, so I guess idle/leakage
current is out of the picture.

Well, if your remote uses 2 batteries, you would have a total of 4000
ma-hr of capacity. *At a 25ma draw, that's
* *4000 / 25 = 160 hrs = 6.67 days
if someone sat on a remote button.

Could I trouble you to double check the standby current, possibly with
a more sensitive amps guesser? *To drain the 4000 ma-hr batteries in 2
years (17,520 hrs), you only need:
* *4000 / 17520 = 228 ua
of leakage.

--
Jeff Liebermann * *
150 Felker St #D * *http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann * * AE6KS * *831-336-2558

Yeah, I did double check it, two separate measurements a couple of
minutes apart andredid thechecking wiring to make sure it was going
thru the remote, hence the pushbutton current draw and the idle. The
other battery of the two AA Energizers in the remote still
functioned. Just luck of the draw I guess. Today is the day to check
up on all the things that I am too busy to do the rest of the year.
Hard to believe I've been retired from Bell Labs fo exactly 10.5 years
and still so busy doing things that I have to schedule a day to do
catch up on things I would rahter not do at all.

On 1/2/2012 12:53 AM, wrote:
Happened to try a seldom-used tv remote control last night, dead.
opened it up, one 2013 AA Energizer battery was fine, the other was
dead and leaking. I stupidly thought that the date on batterries was
how long they were supposed to last if they were not used - shelf
life.

Since the battery was not used more than a few minutes since it was
put in the remote a couple of years ago, and had been in an air-
conditioned and heated room in the house for its entire time since I
brought it home from the store, I thought that it was safe to leave it
in the remote without having to periodically check for leakage.
Fortunately, the leakage was minor and because of the physical
position of the remote, the leakage went onto the inside of the back
cover and did not get into the electronics in the remote.

Just thought I would post it here as a reminder not to assume anything
about battery life.

Well I know it's a contentious thing to talk about which brand but we
have just stopped buying Eveready products because to us they are just
inferior to another popular brand in most ways, like endurance and
leakage etc. IMHO it is also a good idea to wipe the contact surfaces
with an oily rag or a thin smear of grease when installing batteries
that are used in flashlights and the like. Whilst it's hard to remember,
following most manufacturer's advice to remove the batteries if the
device is to be unused for long periods is sound :-)

Rheilly P

On Jan 1, 5:04*pm, " wrote:
On Jan 1, 4:28*pm, Jeff Liebermann wrote:





On Sun, 1 Jan 2012 10:51:36 -0800 (PST), "

wrote:
Good pont about the idle/leakage current. *I just checked it, 25 ma
draw when pushing a button, 0 ua standby, so I guess idle/leakage
current is out of the picture.

Well, if your remote uses 2 batteries, you would have a total of 4000
ma-hr of capacity. *At a 25ma draw, that's
* *4000 / 25 = 160 hrs = 6.67 days
if someone sat on a remote button.

Could I trouble you to double check the standby current, possibly with
a more sensitive amps guesser? *To drain the 4000 ma-hr batteries in 2
years (17,520 hrs), you only need:
* *4000 / 17520 = 228 ua
of leakage.

--
Jeff Liebermann * *
150 Felker St #D * *http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann * * AE6KS * *831-336-2558

Yeah, I did double check it, two separate measurements a couple of
minutes apart andredid thechecking wiring to make sure it was going
thru the remote, hence the pushbutton current draw and the idle. *The
other battery of the two AA Energizers in the remote still
functioned. *Just luck of the draw I guess. *Today is the day to check
up on all the things that I am too busy to do the rest of the year.
Hard to believe I've been retired from Bell Labs fo exactly 10.5 years
and still so busy doing things that I have to schedule a day to do
catch up on things I would rahter not do at all.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The remote was sitting on the back of the tv table with the keyboard
up. The leakage was on the negative spring and on the removable
trapdoor so I wiped the spring and washed the trapdoor off, everything
works fine. It would not be worth the trouble to ship it to Energizer
to try to get a replacement reote. I will call them to let them know
what happened tomorrow when most everybody is back to work and see if
they will send me free coupons. I'll report back here what happens.

wrote:
On Jan 1, 12:23 pm, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sun, 1 Jan 2012 08:53:32 -0800 (PST), "

wrote:
Happened to try a seldom-used tv remote control last night, dead.
opened it up, one 2013 AA Energizer battery was fine, the other was
dead and leaking.
That's a standard magnesium dioxide and zinc alkaline battery. Rated
shelf life is 7 years, so it should have lasted. Weird.

How it failed:
http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/2002-01/1011285710.Eg.r.html

Some marginal drivel with some interesting stuff mixed in:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?171520-Leaking-alk...

Energizer alkaline batteries:
http://data.energizer.com/PDFs/alkaline_appman.pdf

I stupidly thought that the date on batterries was
how long they were supposed to last if they were not used - shelf
life.
Humor me and insert an amps guesser in series with the batteries on
the remote. Does it draw any current in standby? Any chance that
someone put something on top of the remote and pressed one of the
buttons for an extended period? Measure the current the remote draws
when you punch a button and estimate the battery life (2A-hr) assuming
continuous accidental operation.

Another anecdote for the collection. My palatial office building
includes a maintenance closet, where we store several emergency
flashlights. It's a random assortment of alkaline D cells in mostly
plastic flashlights with incandescent bulbs. The batteries will first
swell and then leak after about a year, even if not used. It doesn't
seem to matter what brand of battery, they always leak. This has been
going on for about 20 years. My guess(tm) is that one of the volatile
cleaning chemicals stored in the closet is attacking the batteries. We
put all but one flashlight inside zip loc bags to see if that helps.
Too soon to tell as it's only been about 3 months.

Since the battery was not used more than a few minutes since it was
put in the remote a couple of years ago, and had been in an air-
conditioned and heated room in the house for its entire time since I
brought it home from the store, I thought that it was safe to leave it
in the remote without having to periodically check for leakage.
Has anyone been using spray cleaner on the remote or nearby? That's
my guess(tm) as to the culprit.

Fortunately, the leakage was minor and because of the physical
position of the remote, the leakage went onto the inside of the back
cover and did not get into the electronics in the remote.
I had the not so bright idea of wrapping my batteries in cellophane
wrap when installed in devices that I care about (Geiger counters,
instruments, test equipment, emergency radios, GPS, etc). The problem
was that the batteries usually leak from the end terminal area, which
cannot be covered with cellophane wrap. Oops. My next attempt will
probably be to add a sponge at both ends of the battery (with a hole
in the center for the connection). The plan is to localize the
damage, not prevent it. Maybe seal the battery compartment.

Just thought I would post it here as a reminder not to assume anything
about battery life.
There should be a warranty on the batteries.
http://www.energizerbatteries.com/WarrantyInformation.pdf
Ugh... 1 year.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

See my reply to John, I wish I had seen some leakage (current that is,
not chemical).

It's hard to get excited about one anecdote with unknown conditions.
I think the most plausible explanation so far is that the remote
got stuck between the cushions or somebody laid something on it long
enough to run it down. And sometimes batteries just fail.

If it's seldom used and the standby current is zero, there's no reason
for the battery to have failed...other than battery failure...which happens.

wrote:
On Jan 1, 5:04 pm, " wrote:
On Jan 1, 4:28 pm, Jeff Liebermann wrote:





On Sun, 1 Jan 2012 10:51:36 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:
Good pont about the idle/leakage current. I just checked it, 25 ma
draw when pushing a button, 0 ua standby, so I guess idle/leakage
current is out of the picture.
Well, if your remote uses 2 batteries, you would have a total of 4000
ma-hr of capacity. At a 25ma draw, that's
4000 / 25 = 160 hrs = 6.67 days
if someone sat on a remote button.
Could I trouble you to double check the standby current, possibly with
a more sensitive amps guesser? To drain the 4000 ma-hr batteries in 2
years (17,520 hrs), you only need:
4000 / 17520 = 228 ua
of leakage.
--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
Yeah, I did double check it, two separate measurements a couple of
minutes apart andredid thechecking wiring to make sure it was going
thru the remote, hence the pushbutton current draw and the idle. The
other battery of the two AA Energizers in the remote still
functioned. Just luck of the draw I guess. Today is the day to check
up on all the things that I am too busy to do the rest of the year.
Hard to believe I've been retired from Bell Labs fo exactly 10.5 years
and still so busy doing things that I have to schedule a day to do
catch up on things I would rahter not do at all.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The remote was sitting on the back of the tv table with the keyboard
up. The leakage was on the negative spring and on the removable
trapdoor so I wiped the spring and washed the trapdoor off, everything
works fine. It would not be worth the trouble to ship it to Energizer
to try to get a replacement reote. I will call them to let them know
what happened tomorrow when most everybody is back to work and see if
they will send me free coupons. I'll report back here what happens.

Use a mix 50/50 of water/white vinegar to neutralize the base (alkalye)
that leaked from the batteries.

http://flippers.com/battery.html

John :-#)#

--
(Please post followups or tech enquiries to the newsgroup)
John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9
Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
www.flippers.com
"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."

Rheilly Phoull wrote:
On 1/2/2012 12:53 AM, wrote:
Happened to try a seldom-used tv remote control last night, dead.
opened it up, one 2013 AA Energizer battery was fine, the other was
dead and leaking. I stupidly thought that the date on batterries was
how long they were supposed to last if they were not used - shelf
life.

Since the battery was not used more than a few minutes since it was
put in the remote a couple of years ago, and had been in an air-
conditioned and heated room in the house for its entire time since I
brought it home from the store, I thought that it was safe to leave it
in the remote without having to periodically check for leakage.
Fortunately, the leakage was minor and because of the physical
position of the remote, the leakage went onto the inside of the back
cover and did not get into the electronics in the remote.

Just thought I would post it here as a reminder not to assume anything
about battery life.

Well I know it's a contentious thing to talk about which brand but we
have just stopped buying Eveready products because to us they are just
inferior to another popular brand in most ways, like endurance and
leakage etc. IMHO it is also a good idea to wipe the contact surfaces
with an oily rag or a thin smear of grease when installing batteries
that are used in flashlights and the like. Whilst it's hard to remember,
following most manufacturer's advice to remove the batteries if the
device is to be unused for long periods is sound :-)

Rheilly P

Well, I could chime in here to point out that we have opened a number of
video and pinball games that were factory sealed since 1980 - and they
all contained either Royovac, Eveready Energizers, or Duracels as
battery backups for 5101 CMOS RAM. In a number of cases the batteries
(all brands) still had a charge, a few were still very close to 1.5VDC,
most were around 1.0VDC.

John :-#)#


--
(Please post followups or tech enquiries to the newsgroup)
John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9
Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
www.flippers.com
"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."

On 2/01/2012 3:53 AM, wrote:
Happened to try a seldom-used tv remote control last night, dead.
opened it up, one 2013 AA Energizer battery was fine, the other was
dead and leaking. I stupidly thought that the date on batterries was
how long they were supposed to last if they were not used - shelf
life.


That aside, batteries are not meant to leak anymore. Some of us can no
doubt remember when batteries were sold in two varieties - ordinary, and
(more expensive) leak proof - the point being that the ordinary ones
were pretty much guaranteed to leak when discharged, whereas the leak
proof ones would not. The ordinary ones have long since vanished.

If it's damaged the remote, take the matter up with whatever is the
current name of the company behind Energiser in your part of the world.

Sylvia.

On 1/2/2012 9:21 AM, John Robertson wrote:
Rheilly Phoull wrote:
On 1/2/2012 12:53 AM, wrote:
Happened to try a seldom-used tv remote control last night, dead.
opened it up, one 2013 AA Energizer battery was fine, the other was
dead and leaking. I stupidly thought that the date on batterries was
how long they were supposed to last if they were not used - shelf
life.

Since the battery was not used more than a few minutes since it was
put in the remote a couple of years ago, and had been in an air-
conditioned and heated room in the house for its entire time since I
brought it home from the store, I thought that it was safe to leave it
in the remote without having to periodically check for leakage.
Fortunately, the leakage was minor and because of the physical
position of the remote, the leakage went onto the inside of the back
cover and did not get into the electronics in the remote.

Just thought I would post it here as a reminder not to assume anything
about battery life.

Well I know it's a contentious thing to talk about which brand but we
have just stopped buying Eveready products because to us they are just
inferior to another popular brand in most ways, like endurance and
leakage etc. IMHO it is also a good idea to wipe the contact surfaces
with an oily rag or a thin smear of grease when installing batteries
that are used in flashlights and the like. Whilst it's hard to
remember, following most manufacturer's advice to remove the batteries
if the device is to be unused for long periods is sound :-)

Rheilly P

Well, I could chime in here to point out that we have opened a number of
video and pinball games that were factory sealed since 1980 - and they
all contained either Royovac, Eveready Energizers, or Duracels as
battery backups for 5101 CMOS RAM. In a number of cases the batteries
(all brands) still had a charge, a few were still very close to 1.5VDC,
most were around 1.0VDC.

John :-#)#


You are right of course, I reckon they tend to use better construction
or materials for some uses. OTOH I have seen "Golden Elephant" type
units last for years too. A bit of a lottery at best and lets not get
onto re-chargables :_)

Rheilly P

On Sun, 01 Jan 2012 14:28:19 -0800, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

On Sun, 1 Jan 2012 10:51:36 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

Good pont about the idle/leakage current. I just checked it, 25 ma
draw when pushing a button, 0 ua standby, so I guess idle/leakage
current is out of the picture.

I goofed(tm). Two batteries in series do not add the Amp-Hr capacity.
My thanks to Dave Platt for the correction.

Well, if your remote uses 2 batteries, you would have a total of 4000
ma-hr of capacity. At a 25ma draw, that's
4000 / 25 = 160 hrs = 6.67 days
if someone sat on a remote button.

That should be:
2000 / 25 = 80 hrs = 3.4 days

Could I trouble you to double check the standby current, possibly with
a more sensitive amps guesser? To drain the 4000 ma-hr batteries in 2
years (17,520 hrs), you only need:
4000 / 17520 = 228 ua
of leakage.

That should be:
2000 / 17520 = 114 ua

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

"Sylvia Else" wrote in message
...
On 2/01/2012 3:53 AM, wrote:

Happened to try a seldom-used tv remote control last night, dead.
opened it up, one 2013 AA Energizer battery was fine, the other was
dead and leaking. I stupidly thought that the date on batterries was
how long they were supposed to last if they were not used - shelf
life.

That aside, batteries are not meant to leak anymore. Some of us can no
doubt remember when batteries were sold in two varieties - ordinary, and
(more expensive) leak proof - the point being that the ordinary ones
were pretty much guaranteed to leak when discharged, whereas the leak
proof ones would not. The ordinary ones have long since vanished.

Intent and practice aren't necessarily the same. Alkaline cells often
"discharge" or develop a fuzzy crud. Duracells are notorious for liquid
leaks, while Evereadys have never caused me problems. (Other people report
exactly the opposite.)

If the battery damaged the unit, contact the manufacturer. Duracell replaced
the case of a dictation machine its batteries had damaged.

wrote in message
...
Happened to try a seldom-used tv remote control last night, dead.
opened it up, one 2013 AA Energizer battery was fine, the other was
dead and leaking. I stupidly thought that the date on batterries was
how long they were supposed to last if they were not used - shelf
life.

Since the battery was not used more than a few minutes since it was
put in the remote a couple of years ago, and had been in an air-
conditioned and heated room in the house for its entire time since I
brought it home from the store, I thought that it was safe to leave it
in the remote without having to periodically check for leakage.
Fortunately, the leakage was minor and because of the physical
position of the remote, the leakage went onto the inside of the back
cover and did not get into the electronics in the remote.

Just thought I would post it here as a reminder not to assume anything
about battery life.


A year or so back I picked up a Micronta 22-206 FET multimeter in almost NOS
condition in it's box.

Inside the meter were an original Radio Shack C cell and a 9V battery.

Both were dead, but absolutely NO sign of leakage (lucky me).

The dates of the unit and batteries were about 1975 IIRC.

Mark Z.

On Jan 1, 10:53*am, " wrote:
Happened to try a seldom-used tv remote control last night, dead.
opened it up, one 2013 AA Energizer battery was fine, the other was
dead and leaking. *I stupidly thought that the date on batterries was
how long they were supposed to last if they were not used - shelf
life.

Since the battery was not used more than a few minutes since it was
put in the remote a couple of years ago, and had been in an air-
conditioned and heated room in the house for its entire time since I
brought it home from the store, I thought that it was safe to leave it
in the remote without having to periodically check for leakage.
Fortunately, the leakage was minor and because of the physical
position of the remote, the leakage went onto the inside of the back
cover and did not get into the electronics in the remote.

Just thought I would post it here as a reminder not to assume anything
about battery life.

I registered a complaint on the energizer web site, we'll see if they
respond or if I have to actually call them.