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Electronics Repair (sci.electronics.repair) Discussion of repairing electronic equipment. Topics include requests for assistance, where to obtain servicing information and parts, techniques for diagnosis and repair, and annecdotes about success, failures and problems. |
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#321
Posted to rec.audio.tech,sci.electronics.repair,uk.rec.audio,uk.tech.broadcast,uk.tech.digital-tv
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Audio Precision System One Dual Domani Measuirement Systems
"Mike Tomlinson" wrote in message ... snip : Seen American consumer units? Huge, ugly things, Only an issue if the panel is sited in a typical UK location within the house... |
#322
Posted to sci.electronics.repair,uk.rec.audio,uk.tech.broadcast
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Audio Precision System One Dual Domani Measuirement Systems
Dave Liquorice wrote: On Wed, 01 Feb 2012 11:35:24 -0500, JW wrote: Yeah, but we're smart enough to not put them in our living room. What makes you think we do? Why else would you care what it looks like? Because we don't like heavy industrial looking stuff in our homes, even in the boiler or utility room. That explains Lucas. -- You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense. |
#323
Posted to sci.electronics.repair,uk.rec.audio,uk.tech.broadcast
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Audio Precision System One Dual Domani Measuirement Systems
"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message ll.co.uk... : On Wed, 01 Feb 2012 11:35:24 -0500, JW wrote: : : Yeah, but we're smart enough to not put them in our living room. : : What makes you think we do? : : Why else would you care what it looks like? : : Because we don't like heavy industrial looking stuff in our homes, : even in the boiler or utility room. : Actually it is just what one is used to, a bit like driving on the right or left, anything else looks or feels weird... Anyway, looking at the average sized UK consumer panel these days (12 way + plus incoming main switch and such circuit switches [1]) they are starting to look very heavy and 'industrial' anyway (if one looks beyond the magnolia self coloured plastic cases), gone are the days when one could get away with a slim-lined 4 or 6 way consumer unit... [1] with the prospect of even more dedicated radials being specified in the next few years |
#324
Posted to rec.audio.tech,sci.electronics.repair,uk.rec.audio,uk.tech.broadcast,uk.tech.digital-tv
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Audio Precision System One Dual Domani Measuirement Systems
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote: In article , Michael A. Terrell wrote: There is no fixed number. It depends on the floor plan of the house. The only dedicated outlets are for refrigerators, freezers, dryers and electric stoves. Think I prefer our system where all of these can be used on any outlet in the house. Although fixed heating would normally have an individual radial circuit. As would water heating. A kitchen electric stove can take up to 50A 240V which is more than your fragile rings can handle. Who is going to move a dryer from room to room? The refrigerator or freezer can be plugged in anywhere, but why would you want them anywhere but the kitchen? Other circuits can have multiple outlets in a chain. The maximum per circuit may depend on local code, but a typical breaker panel is 20 slot and a few are empty for future use. Local code - and you expect those in the UK to understand it? Why have different numbers according to what side of a line you live? Sigh. Water table, salt air, and hundreds of variables that tighten the standard NEC. Some areas banned BX cable, because it rusts. In some areas you have to use Schedule 80 gray PVC conduit instead of steel. There are good reasons for most exemptions, and rules in the NEC. Some limit the number of rooms per circuit, while others limit the maximum number of outlets per circuit. There are differences all over Europe, which is your side of the line. The first homes to get electricity usually had one outlet per room, and one ceiling ;light with a pull chain. Two 10 A fuses, and a 15A main on the 90-110 service. Some areas were DC, some were 25 Hz and others were 60 Hz. Farms used lead acid batteries and a 'Wincharger' to charge them. The house was wired for 32 volt, but used standard 110 hardware so that when the grid became available all they had to do was replace the bulbs and appliances. Now, some areas require new service or upgrades to be 200A 240V for the main breaker. -- You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense. |
#325
Posted to rec.audio.tech,sci.electronics.repair,uk.rec.audio,uk.tech.broadcast,uk.tech.digital-tv
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Audio Precision System One Dual Domani Measuirement Systems
"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message m... : : "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote: : : In article , : Michael A. Terrell wrote: : : There is no fixed number. It depends on the floor plan of the house. : The only dedicated outlets are for refrigerators, freezers, dryers and : electric stoves. : : Think I prefer our system where all of these can be used on any outlet in : the house. Although fixed heating would normally have an individual radial : circuit. As would water heating. : : : A kitchen electric stove can take up to 50A 240V which is more than : your fragile rings can handle. Who is going to move a dryer from room : to room? The refrigerator or freezer can be plugged in anywhere, but why : would you want them anywhere but the kitchen? In the UK, cookers *are* normally supplied by their own dedicated supply, OTOH cheapskates like Plowman don't tend not specify dedicated supplies to other high rated appliances such as washing machines (that heat their water) or clothes dryers, nor will they provide a dedicated supply to appliances that suffer other problems if isolated, such as freezers. : : : Other circuits can have multiple outlets in a chain. : The maximum per circuit may depend on local code, but a typical breaker : panel is 20 slot and a few are empty for future use. : : Local code - and you expect those in the UK to understand it? Why have : different numbers according to what side of a line you live? : : : Sigh. Water table, salt air, and hundreds of variables that tighten : the standard NEC. Some areas banned BX cable, because it rusts. In : some areas you have to use Schedule 80 gray PVC conduit instead of : steel. There are good reasons for most exemptions, and rules in the : NEC. Some limit the number of rooms per circuit, while others limit the : maximum number of outlets per circuit. There are differences all over : Europe, which is your side of the line. Hahahaha, people like Plowman are as rabid about 'European' electrical standards as they are about the US standards, "Little Britains" through and through... :~( |
#326
Posted to uk.tech.broadcast,uk.tech.digital-tv,rec.audio.tech,uk.rec.audio,sci.electronics.repair
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Audio Precision System One Dual Domani Measuirement Systems
"Jerry" wrote
Anything, it doesn't have to be in excess of 13amps, that is the ****ing point, You do not advance your argument by the use of foul language. just the non availability of a replacement fuse -*as others have pointed out also*. No, "others" were refering to internal equipment fuses. You wholly refuse to accept that it is terrifyingly easy for any Frank Spencer [1] style idiot to totally circumnavigate the end user protection when being supplied via a ring and BS1363 plug/socket. Its not "terrifyingly easy" to find a screw, bolt or bit of metal that will fit into the fuse holder. Its actually far easier to take a fuse from another plug. For the same to happen with radial circuits one would have to tamper with the panels circuit protection and not just any appliance/lead protection. No, that is nothing like the problem, radials are not protected at 30amps. They can be, BS7671 permits radial circuits protected by 32A circuit breakers. If you were the expert you try to claim you are you'd know that. David. |
#327
Posted to uk.tech.broadcast,uk.tech.digital-tv,rec.audio.tech,uk.rec.audio,sci.electronics.repair
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Audio Precision System One Dual Domani Measuirement Systems
"David Looser" wrote in message ... : "Jerry" wrote : : Anything, it doesn't have to be in excess of 13amps, that is the : ****ing point, : : You do not advance your argument by the use of foul language. Poor diddums, news:alt.moderated.nursery-rhymes is that away === : : just the non availability of a replacement : fuse -*as others have pointed out also*. : : No, "others" were refering to internal equipment fuses. Angles dancing on pinheads, if an internal fuse can be bridged there is nothing what so ever to stop the same happening with fuses fitted into BS1363 plugs (or even FCUs). : : You wholly refuse to : accept that it is terrifyingly easy for any Frank Spencer [1] : style idiot to totally circumnavigate the end user protection : when being supplied via a ring and BS1363 plug/socket. : : Its not "terrifyingly easy" to find a screw, bolt or bit of metal that will : fit into the fuse holder. Its actually far easier to take a fuse from : another plug. Only in that mythical land called Utopia, in the rest of the UK it is terrifyingly easy, as you and others have admitted above, but you are so far up your BBC theory books that you can't see the daylight anymore. : : For the : same to happen with radial circuits one would have to tamper with : the panels circuit protection and not just any appliance/lead : protection. : : No, that is nothing like the problem, radials are not protected : at 30amps. : : They can be, BS7671 permits radial circuits protected by 32A circuit : breakers. If you were the expert you try to claim you are you'd know that. : Well yes, and as I said way up, an idiot could indeed hard wire a table light into a special, dedicated (such as cooker), radial circuit but that is hardly the designed for easy access that a BS1363 plug has been designed to allow -people don't even need any (proper) tools these days due to those horrid moulded on plugs with externally accessible push-in/pull-out fuse holders.... |
#328
Posted to rec.audio.tech,sci.electronics.repair,uk.rec.audio,uk.tech.broadcast,uk.tech.digital-tv
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Audio Precision System One Dual Domani Measuirement Systems
"Don Pearce" wrote in message
... On Wed, 01 Feb 2012 17:52:56 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote: There is no fixed number. It depends on the floor plan of the house. The only dedicated outlets are for refigerators, freezers, dryers and electric stoves. Think I prefer our system where all of these can be used on any outlet in the house. Although fixed heating would normally have an individual radial circuit. As would water heating. Back in the olden days there was always a cooker spur rated at 30 amps. That came straight from the fuse board to the cooker, which was wired into the wall plate without a socket. Wad'y mean "back in the olden days"? That's the same now, except that the radial circuit for the cooker would be rated at 45A. Everything else was ring. On each floor you'd have a separate ring for the sockets and lights. Lights on a ring? never met that one. There's nothing in BS7671 to suggest putting lights on a ring (though to be fair there's nothing to forbid it either). What BS7671 does now require is the lights and power on any one floor are not served by the same RCD. David. |
#329
Posted to rec.audio.tech,sci.electronics.repair,uk.rec.audio,uk.tech.broadcast,uk.tech.digital-tv
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Audio Precision System One Dual Domani Measuirement Systems
"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
m... Think I prefer our system where all of these can be used on any outlet in the house. Although fixed heating would normally have an individual radial circuit. As would water heating. A kitchen electric stove can take up to 50A 240V which is more than your fragile rings can handle. Despite what some others may have mistakenly implied, cookers in the UK have their own radial circuits, usually rated at 40A. Who is going to move a dryer from room to room? OK, but might a dryer not be replaced by another one? A much easier process (and probably safer if carried out by an untrained person) if connected via a plug & socket. The refrigerator or freezer can be plugged in anywhere, but why would you want them anywhere but the kitchen? Same argument as for dryers. David. |
#331
Posted to uk.tech.broadcast,uk.tech.digital-tv,rec.audio.tech,uk.rec.audio,sci.electronics.repair
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Audio Precision System One Dual Domani Measuirement Systems
David Looser wrote:
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message ... After all, the Right side is the right side... You mean the French side and German and... The story goes that it was Napoleon who imposed driving on the right (or more accurately in those pre-motor vehicle days passing oncoming traffic on the right) onto a continent that up until then had mostly still followed the old Roman rule of passing on the left. The good news is that most of the major car manufacturers have figured out to make cars of either format on the same production line, etc. Yes, its not a big deal. Although I have never driven across a land border between left and right passing countries myself (its hard to drive across the English Channel!) I have watched traffic crossing the border between Thailand (drives on the left) and Burma (drives on the right). It all seemed to work very smoothly. David. Except for the entrance to The Savoy Hotel in The Strand which is the only place in UK (as far as I know) where traffic enters on the right of the entrance road (so that the nice doorman can open the side door to let the customer out) Mike |
#332
Posted to sci.electronics.repair,uk.rec.audio,uk.tech.broadcast
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Audio Precision System One Dual Domani Measuirement Systems
"Jerry" wrote
Anyway, looking at the average sized UK consumer panel these days (12 way + plus incoming main switch and such circuit switches [1]) they are starting to look very heavy and 'industrial' anyway (if one looks beyond the magnolia self coloured plastic cases), gone are the days when one could get away with a slim-lined 4 or 6 way consumer unit... Which is why I was suprised by the consumer unit in the Italian house that I mentioned. Just 4 MCBs for a modern, 3 story house. But according to you this was much safer than UK wiring because the plugs were unfused and they don't use ring mains! David. |
#333
Posted to uk.tech.broadcast,uk.tech.digital-tv,rec.audio.tech,uk.rec.audio,sci.electronics.repair
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Audio Precision System One Dual Domani Measuirement Systems
m wrote:
David Looser wrote: "Arny Krueger" wrote in message ... After all, the Right side is the right side... You mean the French side and German and... The story goes that it was Napoleon who imposed driving on the right (or more accurately in those pre-motor vehicle days passing oncoming traffic on the right) onto a continent that up until then had mostly still followed the old Roman rule of passing on the left. The good news is that most of the major car manufacturers have figured out to make cars of either format on the same production line, etc. Yes, its not a big deal. Although I have never driven across a land border between left and right passing countries myself (its hard to drive across the English Channel!) I have watched traffic crossing the border between Thailand (drives on the left) and Burma (drives on the right). It all seemed to work very smoothly. David. Except for the entrance to The Savoy Hotel in The Strand which is the only place in UK (as far as I know) where traffic enters on the right of the entrance road (so that the nice doorman can open the side door to let the customer out) And so that the passengers and driver don't have to stretch across the cab to exchange payment. It took an Act of Parliament to make it so. -- Tciao for Now! John. |
#334
Posted to uk.tech.broadcast,uk.tech.digital-tv,rec.audio.tech,uk.rec.audio,sci.electronics.repair
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Audio Precision System One Dual Domani Measuirement Systems
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
Amsterdam in the '60s had a system where no money changed hands on the trams. You bought books of tickets in a shop. Can't remember exactly how evasion was policed. They were honest - unlike the 70% of passengers on the Bendy-buses who didn't pay. Hence having to have squads of heavily protected "revenue inspectors" at various points supported by Police (one of whom got slashed in the throat around here (West ealing) when confronting a fare evader. Another reason to get rid of those silly things (and replace them with the nice new double-deckers rather than the expensive Boris buses) Mike |
#335
Posted to uk.tech.broadcast,uk.tech.digital-tv,rec.audio.tech,uk.rec.audio,sci.electronics.repair
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Audio Precision System One Dual Domani Measuirement Systems
In article ,
Jerry wrote: : Because it adds an extra mechanical joint to the that is not : necessary to the circuit, more than likely hidden : : Only in your twisted mind. : Unless you care to explain what you mean?... After is one is not going to add a spur one has to make a joint in the ring, Assuming the new socket is going somewhere between two others, cut the cable leaving some spare where the new one goes, then run in new cable to the next. Or new cable from the two existing sockets to the new. I don't believe in saving pennies. now that can either be crammed into the back of the existing socket, cold-welded [1] (which is an abortion that should not be allowed by the regs, certainly not in a domestic environment were inspections might be few and fare between, but is) Crimped connections correctly made are by far and away the best method of connection. Have you not noticed every single loom on a car, aircraft, computer etc is made this way? and then buried or made using a some form of accessible -although hidden- junction box. Of course and as I said, but was snipped by the groups apparent new troll, one can move one half of the existing ring to the new socket outlet -assuming that it will reach. [1] AKA a properly crimped joint There are JBs that conform to the regs when not accessible as regards the regs. Strange you're putting yourself forward as an expert in domestic wiring by contradicting the regs. Could you give your qualifications for this? -- *Is it true that cannibals don't eat clowns because they taste funny? Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#336
Posted to rec.audio.tech,sci.electronics.repair,uk.rec.audio,uk.tech.broadcast,uk.tech.digital-tv
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Audio Precision System One Dual Domani Measuirement Systems
In article ,
S Viemeister wrote: There is no fixed number. It depends on the floor plan of the house. The only dedicated outlets are for refigerators, freezers, dryers and electric stoves. Think I prefer our system where all of these can be used on any outlet in the house. Although fixed heating would normally have an individual radial circuit. As would water heating. And electric cookers? Depends - quite a few ovens these days come with a 13 amp plug. Although hobs normally need their own radial. -- *Why does the sun lighten our hair, but darken our skin? Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#337
Posted to rec.audio.tech,sci.electronics.repair,uk.rec.audio,uk.tech.broadcast,uk.tech.digital-tv
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Audio Precision System One Dual Domani Measuirement Systems
In article ,
Don Pearce wrote: Think I prefer our system where all of these can be used on any outlet in the house. Although fixed heating would normally have an individual radial circuit. As would water heating. Back in the olden days there was always a cooker spur rated at 30 amps. That came straight from the fuse board to the cooker, which was wired into the wall plate without a socket. Yes. And water heating. Everything else was ring. On each floor you'd have a separate ring for the sockets and lights. Ring for lights? In the early days many houses were wired with just the one ring. Next came a separate one for the kitchen. -- *The more I learn about women, the more I love my car Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#338
Posted to rec.audio.tech,sci.electronics.repair,uk.rec.audio,uk.tech.broadcast,uk.tech.digital-tv
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Audio Precision System One Dual Domani Measuirement Systems
In article ,
Michael A. Terrell wrote: There is no fixed number. It depends on the floor plan of the house. The only dedicated outlets are for refrigerators, freezers, dryers and electric stoves. Think I prefer our system where all of these can be used on any outlet in the house. Although fixed heating would normally have an individual radial circuit. As would water heating. A kitchen electric stove can take up to 50A 240V which is more than your fragile rings can handle. Sorry - we normally call them cookers, so I missed it. A complete electric cooker would normally have its own radial here too. But most here would go for a gas hob and electric oven - some of which can be run from a 13 amp socket. Who is going to move a dryer from room to room? The refrigerator or freezer can be plugged in anywhere, but why would you want them anywhere but the kitchen? You never alter a kitchen? Other circuits can have multiple outlets in a chain. The maximum per circuit may depend on local code, but a typical breaker panel is 20 slot and a few are empty for future use. Local code - and you expect those in the UK to understand it? Why have different numbers according to what side of a line you live? Sigh. Water table, salt air, and hundreds of variables that tighten the standard NEC. Some areas banned BX cable, because it rusts. In some areas you have to use Schedule 80 gray PVC conduit instead of steel. There are good reasons for most exemptions, and rules in the NEC. Some limit the number of rooms per circuit, while others limit the maximum number of outlets per circuit. There are differences all over Europe, which is your side of the line. Europe is a number of different countries, which explains any differences. Although there is some unification. But just why you'd have local codes concerning the number of sockets in the same country escapes me. Perhaps you'd explain? The first homes to get electricity usually had one outlet per room, and one ceiling ;light with a pull chain. Two 10 A fuses, and a 15A main on the 90-110 service. Some areas were DC, some were 25 Hz and others were 60 Hz. Farms used lead acid batteries and a 'Wincharger' to charge them. The house was wired for 32 volt, but used standard 110 hardware so that when the grid became available all they had to do was replace the bulbs and appliances. Now, some areas require new service or upgrades to be 200A 240V for the main breaker. -- *If you don't pay your exorcist you get repossessed.* Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#339
Posted to sci.electronics.repair,uk.rec.audio,uk.tech.broadcast
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Audio Precision System One Dual Domani Measuirement Systems
In article ,
David Looser wrote: Which is why I was suprised by the consumer unit in the Italian house that I mentioned. Just 4 MCBs for a modern, 3 story house. But according to you this was much safer than UK wiring because the plugs were unfused and they don't use ring mains! Much the same as Spain - again new build. -- *Time is what keeps everything from happening at once. Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#340
Posted to rec.audio.tech,sci.electronics.repair,uk.rec.audio,uk.tech.broadcast,uk.tech.digital-tv
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Audio Precision System One Dual Domani Measuirement Systems
In article , Ron
writes If you want to see some spectacular electrical fails, check out the facebook group called 'Dodgy technicians' https://www.facebook.com/groups/dodgytechnicians/ Also take a look at: http://www.electrical-contractor.net...p/forums/4/1/V iolation_Photo_Forum.html if the above line breaks (likely): http://tinyurl.com/84hv9y6 -- (\__/) (='.'=) (")_(") |
#341
Posted to rec.audio.tech,sci.electronics.repair,uk.rec.audio,uk.tech.broadcast,uk.tech.digital-tv
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Audio Precision System One Dual Domani Measuirement Systems
In article , Don Pearce
writes Back in the olden days there was always a cooker spur rated at 30 amps. That came straight from the fuse board to the cooker, which was wired into the wall plate without a socket. Also the immersion, on its own 16A radial. Though sometimes you could find it wired into a ring. -- (\__/) (='.'=) (")_(") |
#342
Posted to rec.audio.tech,sci.electronics.repair,uk.rec.audio,uk.tech.broadcast,uk.tech.digital-tv
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Audio Precision System One Dual Domani Measuirement Systems
In article , David Looser
writes Despite what some others may have mistakenly implied, cookers in the UK have their own radial circuits, usually rated at 40A. Single ovens usually come with a 13A plug, double ovens need a radial circuit. Hobs usually need a radial too. -- (\__/) (='.'=) (")_(") |
#343
Posted to rec.audio.tech,sci.electronics.repair,uk.rec.audio,uk.tech.broadcast,uk.tech.digital-tv
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Audio Precision System One Dual Domani Measuirement Systems
In article ,
Mike Tomlinson wrote: In article , Don Pearce writes Back in the olden days there was always a cooker spur rated at 30 amps. That came straight from the fuse board to the cooker, which was wired into the wall plate without a socket. Also the immersion, on its own 16A radial. Though sometimes you could find it wired into a ring. This was common once, but IIRC regs changed requiring new builds (or re-wires) to have it on a radial. IIRC, the concept of a ring requires diversity - ie no continuous high loads. Most domestic high loads are for fairly short periods of time. But heating usually more constant. Water heating is sort of in between - hence the regs changing. -- *Income tax service - We‘ve got what it takes to take what you've got. Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#344
Posted to rec.audio.tech,sci.electronics.repair,uk.rec.audio,uk.tech.broadcast,uk.tech.digital-tv
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Audio Precision System One Dual Domani Measuirement Systems
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote
Sorry - we normally call them cookers, so I missed it. A complete electric cooker would normally have its own radial here too. But most here would go for a gas hob and electric oven - some of which can be run from a 13 amp socket. I've not met an oven with a 13A plug, maybe this is a recent innovation. I have a gas (bottled, I'm off the gas main) hob and a built-in double oven which is connected via a 45A "cooker point" to a radial circuit with a 40A MCB on the other end of it. Though there is a 13A socket in the cooker point into which the microwave is plugged, so that shares the 40A with the oven. David. |
#345
Posted to rec.audio.tech,sci.electronics.repair,uk.rec.audio,uk.tech.broadcast,uk.tech.digital-tv
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Audio Precision System One Dual Domani Measuirement Systems
In article ,
David Looser wrote: Sorry - we normally call them cookers, so I missed it. A complete electric cooker would normally have its own radial here too. But most here would go for a gas hob and electric oven - some of which can be run from a 13 amp socket. I've not met an oven with a 13A plug, maybe this is a recent innovation. I have a gas (bottled, I'm off the gas main) hob and a built-in double oven which is connected via a 45A "cooker point" to a radial circuit with a 40A MCB on the other end of it. Though there is a 13A socket in the cooker point into which the microwave is plugged, so that shares the 40A with the oven. Single ovens often come with a 13 amp plug and lead, these days. Double ones not, as the two being used together would exceed 3 kW. The 13 amp socket on the cooker point is an older idea - really from the days when an extra socket in the kitchen would double the number. ;-) -- *Husband and cat lost -- reward for cat Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#346
Posted to rec.audio.tech,sci.electronics.repair,uk.rec.audio,uk.tech.broadcast,uk.tech.digital-tv
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Audio Precision System One Dual Domani Measuirement Systems
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
... In article , David Looser wrote: Sorry - we normally call them cookers, so I missed it. A complete electric cooker would normally have its own radial here too. But most here would go for a gas hob and electric oven - some of which can be run from a 13 amp socket. I've not met an oven with a 13A plug, maybe this is a recent innovation. I have a gas (bottled, I'm off the gas main) hob and a built-in double oven which is connected via a 45A "cooker point" to a radial circuit with a 40A MCB on the other end of it. Though there is a 13A socket in the cooker point into which the microwave is plugged, so that shares the 40A with the oven. My house, built in 2000, has a single oven and spark unit for lighting the gas hob powered from adjacent 3-pin-plugs under the worktop (I only discovered them when I needed to remove the oven for some reason). The socket is switched via a multi-way switch unit which also has marked switches for the built-in fridge/freezer, the immersion heater and the washing machine. Until I found the hidden socket for the oven, I assumed that it was hard-wired into a conventional cooker point. I'm not sure which circuit all the kitchen appliances are on, but I think it may be a dedicated one, not the ring main that serves the rest of the ground floor. While we're talking about electrical safety, what is the current (scuse that unintentional pun) advice on extending the lead of a freezer? I know you have to use cable that is rated for 13A (1.5 mm^2 wire rather than 1 mm^2) and conventional extension cables must be unrolled to avoid inductive heating. But providing you use a cable of the correct current rating and which is no longer than it needs to be, joined to the original cable using a proper in-line junction box, is there a problem? Many internet resources say "don't do it - get an electrician to fit a socket close to the freezer", probably on a brand-new radial line, since it is a faff rerouting a ring main to include an additional socket. But SWMBO's father, a qualified electrician, said it's a load of crap having a blanket ban, and is only to guard against numpties trying to use extension cable that is rated too low. Is it a no-no to have a spur coming off a ring main? When I was fitting a replacement mains socket in SWMBO's house to replace one whose faceplate had cracked, I was surprised to find *three* cables (ie 3 live, 3 neutral, 3 earth wires). I duly connected all of them to the new socket, but should the extra socket (wherever it may be) really be connected via the ring main? It's a 1930s house, rewired with red/black/green wiring rather than brown/blue/green-and-yellow, though I gather the wiring colours are only mandatory for equipment cable and that it's quite normal to find even modern house wiring (lighting, ring mains) in the "old" colours, so it's difficult to deduce when the rewiring was done and therefore what building regs applied at the time. |
#347
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Audio Precision System One Dual Domani Measuirement Systems
In article ,
Mortimer wrote: While we're talking about electrical safety, what is the current (scuse that unintentional pun) advice on extending the lead of a freezer? I know you have to use cable that is rated for 13A (1.5 mm^2 wire rather than 1 mm^2) and conventional extension cables must be unrolled to avoid inductive heating. But providing you use a cable of the correct current rating and which is no longer than it needs to be, joined to the original cable using a proper in-line junction box, is there a problem? Many internet resources say "don't do it - get an electrician to fit a socket close to the freezer", probably on a brand-new radial line, since it is a faff rerouting a ring main to include an additional socket. But SWMBO's father, a qualified electrician, said it's a load of crap having a blanket ban, and is only to guard against numpties trying to use extension cable that is rated too low. Simplest way would be to buy a 13 amp extension lead with a single outlet in one of the sheds or whatever and cut to length, re-using the plug supplied with it. Most aren't moulded on. Is it a no-no to have a spur coming off a ring main? When I was fitting a replacement mains socket in SWMBO's house to replace one whose faceplate had cracked, I was surprised to find *three* cables (ie 3 live, 3 neutral, 3 earth wires). I duly connected all of them to the new socket, but should the extra socket (wherever it may be) really be connected via the ring main? It's a 1930s house, rewired with red/black/green wiring rather than brown/blue/green-and-yellow, though I gather the wiring colours are only mandatory for equipment cable and that it's quite normal to find even modern house wiring (lighting, ring mains) in the "old" colours, so it's difficult to deduce when the rewiring was done and therefore what building regs applied at the time. You are allowed (current regs) a spur with one double socket maximum. Not two singles. -- *Heart attacks... God's revenge for eating his animal friends Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#348
Posted to sci.electronics.repair,uk.rec.audio,uk.tech.broadcast
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Audio Precision System One Dual Domani Measuirement Systems
On 01/02/2012 14:10, JW wrote:
On Wed, 1 Feb 2012 12:40:58 +0000 Mike wrote in Message : In whill.co.uk, Dave writes Just counted up how many double 13A sockets we've just put into the refurbished *half* of this place: 38. That makes for one helluva fuse board if each was a radial... Seen American consumer units? Huge, ugly things, bit like the Americans themselves :-) http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ricalPanel.jpg Yeah, but we're smart enough to not put them in our living room. Seen in a hotel room in Scotland: http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l1...erWardrobe.jpg Andy |
#349
Posted to sci.electronics.repair,uk.rec.audio,uk.tech.broadcast
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Audio Precision System One Dual Domani Measuirement Systems
"Andy Champ" wrote in message . uk... On 01/02/2012 14:10, JW wrote: On Wed, 1 Feb 2012 12:40:58 +0000 Mike wrote in Message : In whill.co.uk, Dave writes Just counted up how many double 13A sockets we've just put into the refurbished *half* of this place: 38. That makes for one helluva fuse board if each was a radial... Seen American consumer units? Huge, ugly things, bit like the Americans themselves :-) http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ricalPanel.jpg Hmm, a distro panel that can handle up to 96 circuits and includes the main breakers. Where's the problem? Yeah, but we're smart enough to not put them in our living room. Seen in a hotel room in Scotland: http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l1...erWardrobe.jpg Seems like a lot of wiring and separate little boxes to handle not so many circuits. I presume that it provides service for more than just one little hotel room. |
#350
Posted to rec.audio.tech,sci.electronics.repair,uk.rec.audio,uk.tech.broadcast,uk.tech.digital-tv
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Audio Precision System One Dual Domani Measuirement Systems
In message , Michael A.
Terrell writes: Paul Ratcliffe wrote: [] **** off Yank. Patronising *******s aren't you? Not as much as you Brits. You won't take anyone's word on the subject, and you would claim the NEC is wrong, as well. What has the Nippon Electric Company done? -- J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G.5AL-IS-P--Ch++(p)Ar@T0H+Sh0!:`)DNAf Times are bad. Children no longer obey their parents, and everyone is writing a book. -Marcus Tullius Cicero, statesman, orator and writer (106-43 BCE) |
#351
Posted to rec.audio.tech,sci.electronics.repair,uk.rec.audio,uk.tech.broadcast,uk.tech.digital-tv
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Audio Precision System One Dual Domani Measuirement Systems
In message , Mortimer
writes: [] While we're talking about electrical safety, what is the current (scuse that unintentional pun) advice on extending the lead of a freezer? I know you have to use cable that is rated for 13A (1.5 mm^2 wire rather than 1 mm^2) and conventional extension cables must be unrolled to avoid inductive heating. But providing you use a cable of the correct [] I don't _think_ it's _inductive_ heating they're that concerned about - just air cooling, or rather the lack of it when a cable is wound onto a reel (and tightly, as it often is). -- J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G.5AL-IS-P--Ch++(p)Ar@T0H+Sh0!:`)DNAf Times are bad. Children no longer obey their parents, and everyone is writing a book. -Marcus Tullius Cicero, statesman, orator and writer (106-43 BCE) |
#352
Posted to sci.electronics.repair,uk.rec.audio,uk.tech.broadcast
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Audio Precision System One Dual Domani Measuirement Systems
"Arny Krueger" wrote
Seems like a lot of wiring and separate little boxes to handle not so many circuits. I presume that it provides service for more than just one little hotel room. Yes, that's the main incoming supply to the building. The grey unit at the bottom left is the supply company's terminating unit that inludes their fuses. Above that is the meter, to the right of it is a neutral block, and beyond that an isolator (looks like a three-phase + neutral one). I'm not sure what the unit above the isolator is, but at the top of the wardrobe are three consumer units, each, apparently, fed from a different phase. The one on the right seems to feed just one, high-current, load. David. |
#353
Posted to rec.audio.tech,sci.electronics.repair,uk.rec.audio,uk.tech.broadcast,uk.tech.digital-tv
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Audio Precision System One Dual Domani Measuirement Systems
"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote in message
... In message , Mortimer writes: [] While we're talking about electrical safety, what is the current (scuse that unintentional pun) advice on extending the lead of a freezer? I know you have to use cable that is rated for 13A (1.5 mm^2 wire rather than 1 mm^2) and conventional extension cables must be unrolled to avoid inductive heating. But providing you use a cable of the correct [] I don't _think_ it's _inductive_ heating they're that concerned about - just air cooling, or rather the lack of it when a cable is wound onto a reel (and tightly, as it often is). -- Indeed. It's a common error to assume that the reason that cable drums should be unwound when in use is something to do with inductance. Possibly because its a coil, and wire is commonly coiled up to create an inductor. But in this case it is, as you say, simply a matter of air cooling, or more to the point the lack of it. The inductance of an air-cored coil of relatively few turns would be insignificant at 50Hz and in any case the inductances of the two conductors largely cancel out. David. |
#354
Posted to sci.electronics.repair,uk.rec.audio,uk.tech.broadcast
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Audio Precision System One Dual Domani Measuirement Systems
In article , Andy Champ
writes Seen in a hotel room in Scotland: http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l1...erWardrobe.jpg shrug it's in a cupboard, out of sight. Mind you, whoever did that obviously took pride in his work. Nice neat job (except the incoming cable, maybe, it can't be touched anyway) -- (\__/) (='.'=) (")_(") |
#355
Posted to sci.electronics.repair,uk.rec.audio,uk.tech.broadcast
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Audio Precision System One Dual Domani Measuirement Systems
In article , Arny Krueger
writes Where's the problem? It's massive, ugly and looks like it came out of the Queen Mary rather than a domestic premises. Apart from that, it's great :-) -- (\__/) (='.'=) (")_(") |
#356
Posted to sci.electronics.repair,uk.rec.audio,uk.tech.broadcast
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Audio Precision System One Dual Domani Measuirement Systems
In article , Arny Krueger
writes Seems like a lot of wiring and separate little boxes to handle not so many circuits. I presume that it provides service for more than just one little hotel room. Yes, it'll feed the entire building. Note the wiring includes the supplier's meter, unlike those ugly external meters used in North America. The meter is read remotely. As another poster said, this is a 3-phase supply. Notice how thin the main incomer is, yet that'll be supplying 100A per phase. -- (\__/) (='.'=) (")_(") |
#357
Posted to sci.electronics.repair,uk.rec.audio,uk.tech.broadcast
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Audio Precision System One Dual Domani Measuirement Systems
On Fri, 3 Feb 2012 10:33:44 +0000 Mike Tomlinson
wrote in Message id: : In article , Andy Champ writes Seen in a hotel room in Scotland: http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l1...erWardrobe.jpg shrug it's in a cupboard, out of sight. Ah, So *now* it doesn't matter how ugly it is. Which was my point exactly. Heh. |
#358
Posted to sci.electronics.repair,uk.rec.audio,uk.tech.broadcast
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Audio Precision System One Dual Domani Measuirement Systems
In article , JW
writes Ah, So *now* it doesn't matter how ugly it is. Which was my point exactly. But you're the tit that thought we put them on open view in our living rooms. Heh. -- (\__/) (='.'=) (")_(") |
#359
Posted to sci.electronics.repair,uk.rec.audio,uk.tech.broadcast
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Audio Precision System One Dual Domani Measuirement Systems
On Fri, 3 Feb 2012 11:21:57 +0000 Mike Tomlinson
wrote in Message id: : In article , JW writes Ah, So *now* it doesn't matter how ugly it is. Which was my point exactly. But you're the tit that thought we put them on open view in our living rooms. Now and again one has to apply the Ruler of Reason to the Knuckles of Stupidity. I never said you did. I only stated that at *we* weren't stupid enough to put them in our living rooms. If you thought I was implying that *you* were, perhaps the shoe fits after all. Heh. Doh. Anyway, I'm glad to see you've flip-flopped on the issue. Doesn't matter what the **** it looks like if it's not out in the open living space. |
#360
Posted to sci.electronics.repair,uk.rec.audio,uk.tech.broadcast
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Audio Precision System One Dual Domani Measuirement Systems
In article ,
JW wrote: Now and again one has to apply the Ruler of Reason to the Knuckles of Stupidity. I never said you did. I only stated that at *we* weren't stupid enough to put them in our living rooms. If you thought I was implying that *you* were, perhaps the shoe fits after all. Heh. Doh. Anyway, I'm glad to see you've flip-flopped on the issue. Doesn't matter what the **** it looks like if it's not out in the open living space. I've seen US TV shows where they are in a public space in an apartment block. Is this the norm? -- *You sound reasonable......time to up my medication Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
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