"Jerry" wrote in message
...

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
: "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
: ...
:
snip
:
: That's impossible as the pins have insulation down most of
their length -
: only the end part makes contact.
:
: I know the German plugs were made that way It is good to know
that the UK
: plugs are made in a similar way.
:
: We still have all-brass pins here in the US.

Any idea what the figures, due to such plug/sockets, are for
shock or electrocution in the USA?

No such detailed stats, but US consumer deaths due to electrical appliances
are on the order of 1 per 500,000 persons per year. UK numbers appear to be
more like 1 per 2 million persons per year.

In article , Terry
Casey wrote:
On the other hand, why have laptop manufacturers started supplying their
fully isolated PSUs with 3-pin connectors?

Because if they supplied them with anything else in the UK, you'd need to
buy an adaptor as well.

Rod
--
Virtual Access V6.3 free usenet/email software from
http://sourceforge.net/projects/virtual-access/

Roderick Stewart wrote:
In article , Terry
Casey wrote:
On the other hand, why have laptop manufacturers started supplying their
fully isolated PSUs with 3-pin connectors?

Because if they supplied them with anything else in the UK, you'd need to
buy an adaptor as well.

You mean like the lead that connects the three pin, 13A plug and
terminates in the two pin figure of eight socket used by 80% of the
laptop supplies in this room? I've got Euro leads for them, too, so I
don't need to use adaptors when I'm travelling.

The other two are wallwart supplies which plug into the wall and output
the right voltage for the computer.

I suspect there's been change in in legislation in at least one country
where the laptops are sold, ands it's cheaper to change the design on
all the units than make a different one for the offending country or
countries.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

In article ,
says...


We still have all-brass pins here in the US.


Given the thickness (or should that be thinness) of the blades, is there
an alternative?

Reducing the size of the blade to allow for a sleeve would probably
weaken it too much and I doubt the sockets would accept thicker blades.

--

Terry

In article en.co.uk,
says...

In article , Terry
Casey wrote:
On the other hand, why have laptop manufacturers started supplying their
fully isolated PSUs with 3-pin connectors?

Because if they supplied them with anything else in the UK, you'd need to
buy an adaptor as well.


I'm not sure what you mean by that. Are you implying that it is no
longer legal in the UK to supply equipment with twin flex (and matching
2-pole connector)?

--

Terry

"Terry Casey" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...


We still have all-brass pins here in the US.

Given the thickness (or should that be thinness) of the blades, is there
an alternative?

Good question.

Reducing the size of the blade to allow for a sleeve would probably
weaken it too much

Brass isn't the strongest stuff in the world. For low current apps (less
than a few amps) a proportionately stronger material like spring steel
could be used for the insulated section.

and I doubt the sockets would accept thicker blades.

You've got that right!

On 04/01/2012 13:14, Jerry wrote:
On the slip side, the BS 1363 design can be very difficult to
insert/remove, the force needed can be quite high (especially for
the elderly or those with muscular problems), thus a risk of the
terminals making poor contact, also because (as you say) there is
less risk of a BS1363 plug being pulled out accidentally two
other risks are present, should the lead become stranded the lead
is damaged/parts company with the internal connections in either
plug or appliance and more importantly should electrocution occur
it is a dammed sight harder to purposely pull the appliance lead
out of the socket from a distance.

http://www.google.co.uk/products/cat...ed=0CEkQ8wIwBg

AKA

http://tinyurl.com/6wpkcts

Andy

"Andy Champ" wrote in message
. uk...
: On 04/01/2012 13:14, Jerry wrote:
: On the slip side, the BS 1363 design can be very difficult to
: insert/remove, the force needed can be quite high (especially
for
: the elderly or those with muscular problems), thus a risk of
the
: terminals making poor contact, also because (as you say)
there is
: less risk of a BS1363 plug being pulled out accidentally two
: other risks are present, should the lead become stranded the
lead
: is damaged/parts company with the internal connections in
either
: plug or appliance and more importantly should electrocution
occur
: it is a dammed sight harder to purposely pull the appliance
lead
: out of the socket from a distance.
:
:
http://www.google.co.uk/products/cat...ed=0CEkQ8wIwBg
:

URL relates to a "Thermoplasic moulding 13 AMP Fused Easy pull
handle BS 1363 IP20 Rated Grip for easy removal of plug from
socket"

....and?........

That's product is great for someone with a problem with their
finger-grip, it does nothing to help those with muscular
problems, nor does it provide a solution to the other two issues
I mentioned relating to flex damage from being strained and
emergency disconnection (although if the flex was cable tied to
the handle...).
--
Regards, Jerry.

In article ,
lid says...

On 04/01/2012 13:14, Jerry wrote:
On the slip side, the BS 1363 design can be very difficult to
insert/remove, the force needed can be quite high (especially for
the elderly or those with muscular problems), thus a risk of the
terminals making poor contact, also because (as you say) there is
less risk of a BS1363 plug being pulled out accidentally two
other risks are present, should the lead become stranded the lead
is damaged/parts company with the internal connections in either
plug or appliance and more importantly should electrocution occur
it is a dammed sight harder to purposely pull the appliance lead
out of the socket from a distance.

http://www.google.co.uk/products/cat...ed=0CEkQ8wIwBg

AKA

http://tinyurl.com/6wpkcts

Andy

Google doesn't help with short links, does it?

I got it down to this, but that's the best I can do ...!

http://www.google.co.uk/products/cat...=uk&hl=en&cid=
9928575363582767211&q=easy%20plug

I must have got it confused though because I assume '&cid' means
customer ID and they didn't spot that the request came from someone
else!

--

Terry

On Wed, 4 Jan 2012 21:22:30 -0000, Terry Casey
wrote:

In article ,
says...

On 04/01/2012 13:14, Jerry wrote:
On the slip side, the BS 1363 design can be very difficult to
insert/remove, the force needed can be quite high (especially for
the elderly or those with muscular problems), thus a risk of the
terminals making poor contact, also because (as you say) there is
less risk of a BS1363 plug being pulled out accidentally two
other risks are present, should the lead become stranded the lead
is damaged/parts company with the internal connections in either
plug or appliance and more importantly should electrocution occur
it is a dammed sight harder to purposely pull the appliance lead
out of the socket from a distance.

http://www.google.co.uk/products/cat...ed=0CEkQ8wIwBg

AKA

http://tinyurl.com/6wpkcts

Andy

Google doesn't help with short links, does it?

I got it down to this, but that's the best I can do ...!

http://www.google.co.uk/products/cat...=uk&hl=en&cid=
9928575363582767211&q=easy%20plug

I must have got it confused though because I assume '&cid' means
customer ID and they didn't spot that the request came from someone
else!

Wow, those prices aren't pretty. I believe these things are available
on a sort of prescription basis for the elderly and people with
arthritis.

d

"Woody" wrote

The other issue is that continental electricians don't seem to have any
concept of live and neutral. BS4343 outlets are very clearly marked L and
N on both plug or socket but my experience (caravanning, mainly in France)
is that more are reverse wired than correctly wired. Perhaps it is because
(from what I have seen) most Euro MCB's are dual pole and will break both
both conductors under fault conditions (remember most Euro wiring is
radial)

Not sure I see the relevance of radial circuits to two-pole MCBs. Fusing in
the UK used to be two-pole many years ago, but neutral fusing was dropped
because it was possible for the neutral fuse only to fail, leaving the
circuit inoperative yet still live. Whilst obviously with MCBs it would be
possible to return to two-pole isolation I'm not sure that I see the
benefit. Nor, presumably, do the committee who write BS7671.

so polarity at the point of delivery is largely academic.

I disagree. In my view polarity at the point of delivery can be important
(depending on appliance) regardless of the number of poles in the MCB.

I purchased a 10A two-pole MCB (LeGrand) for my caravan in a French DIY
shed for less than a 6A single pole from a UK wholesaler.

Single-pole MCBs to BS7671 (any current rating) cost around £2-£3, how much
less than that was this LeGrand 2-pole job?

Is there any wonder we have to take more steps in our
protection chain than they do?

What do mean by "more steps" and what has that to do with the price of MCBs?

David.

Terry Casey wrote:

Andy Burns says...

http://www.pcworld.co.uk/gbuk/retrak...83932-pdt.html

A bit late in the day, perhaps, with so many laptops now using earthed
'clover leaf' connectors?

I must admit I much prefer the figure-of-eight connector.

The mains charger that was supplied with my Dell laptop had a
cloverleaf, but I purchased the Dell travel charger which is 1) much
smaller and lighter, 2) can run from 12V or 110-240V and 3) uses a
figure-of-8 connector.

£15 quid is a bit steep, but I picked up one anyway, works nicely, I
think I will end up discarding the retracting reel, it adds too much bulk.

On Tue, 3 Jan 2012 18:42:22 +0000, J. P. Gilliver (John)
wrote:

I agree, the BS1363 plug is not my favourite design. Some years ago there

It is far too big for most of the devices currently on it, yes - and
also, the three ratings for the matching fuse (BS1362) widely available
are far too high: 3, 5, and 13A. (Even 1A - which you _can_ get in
BS1362, but you don't half have to hunt for it

Huh? RS have 1,2,3,5,7,10,13 readily available. This is not what
I'd call "half having to hunt for".

- is too high for most
electronic appliances.) IMO, the fact that the plugs are fused actually
gives a _false_ sense of security, _because_ the fuse ratings are so
high; all that fuse can effectively protect is the mains lead (or power
cord, as it's called in US) itself.

The fuse is only *designed* to protect the mains lead, not the device to
which the lead is connected. That's what the device's internal fuse is for.

In article ,
Jerry wrote:
Because it can get accidentally switched off due to stuff being
moved or pushed to the back of the cupboard!

You keep your fridge in a cupboard?

Stick some gaffer tape over the switch.

--
*Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article , Terry Casey
wrote:
On the other hand, why have laptop manufacturers started supplying their
fully isolated PSUs with 3-pin connectors?

Because if they supplied them with anything else in the UK, you'd need to
buy an adaptor as well.


I'm not sure what you mean by that. Are you implying that it is no
longer legal in the UK to supply equipment with twin flex (and matching
2-pole connector)?

I wasn't implying anything at all about what's legal, because I don't know, but
I do know that if you want to plug an electrical appliance into a wall socket
in the UK, it needs to have a 3 pin UK plug on it. Therefore if they put any
other kind of plug on it, you'd have to use an adaptor.

Rod.
--
Virtual Access V6.3 free usenet/email software from
http://sourceforge.net/projects/virtual-access/

On Wed, 4 Jan 2012 19:51:51 -0000, Terry Casey
wrote:

In article en.co.uk,
says...

In article , Terry
Casey wrote:
On the other hand, why have laptop manufacturers started supplying their
fully isolated PSUs with 3-pin connectors?

Because if they supplied them with anything else in the UK, you'd need to
buy an adaptor as well.


I'm not sure what you mean by that. Are you implying that it is no
longer legal in the UK to supply equipment with twin flex (and matching
2-pole connector)?

Nothing to do with legality, just practicability. If you want to sell
goods in the UK market, it is a pretty good idea to supply them with a
UK mains plug. Adaptors are for when you travel, not at home. One
current exception is mains-powered shavers (only a few left now), that
use a two-pin plug specifically designed for an isolated bathroom
connector.

A friend of mine has recently built a new house and her wiring has in
one room - quite legally - an old-fashioned 5-amp round pin socket.

d

Don Pearce wrote:

A friend of mine has recently built a new house and her wiring has in
one room - quite legally - an old-fashioned 5-amp round pin socket.

The Landmark Trust still use these extensively, including in newly restored
properties. They're on the lighting circuit, I was told.

André Coutanche

"Roderick Stewart"
wrote in message
.myzen.co.uk...
: In article
, Terry
Casey
: wrote:
: On the other hand, why have laptop manufacturers started
supplying their
: fully isolated PSUs with 3-pin connectors?
:
: Because if they supplied them with anything else in the UK,
you'd need to
: buy an adaptor as well.
:
:
: I'm not sure what you mean by that. Are you implying that it
is no
: longer legal in the UK to supply equipment with twin flex
(and matching
: 2-pole connector)?
:
: I wasn't implying anything at all about what's legal, because I
don't know, but
: I do know that if you want to plug an electrical appliance into
a wall socket
: in the UK, it needs to have a 3 pin UK plug on it. Therefore if
they put any
: other kind of plug on it, you'd have to use an adaptor.
:

Except Terry was talking about the *female* plug on the end of
the power lead that is inserted into the PSU... The plug that is
inserted into the wall socket, AIUI, those have and will always
be local to the official area of sale - otherwise, in your own
words, an adapter would be required. Duh! :~)
--
Regards, Jerry.

"Don Pearce" wrote in message
...
: On Wed, 4 Jan 2012 19:51:51 -0000, Terry Casey
: wrote:
:
snip
:
: Nothing to do with legality, just practicability. If you want
to sell
: goods in the UK market, it is a pretty good idea to supply them
with a
: UK mains plug. Adaptors are for when you travel, not at home.
One
: current exception is mains-powered shavers (only a few left
now), that
: use a two-pin plug specifically designed for an isolated
bathroom
: connector.

Not sure what Terry means by "Mains Powered" (only 240v ?), there
seems to be quite a few "mains powered" razors still being sold,
many do have rechargeable batteries but still come with a two pin
power lead for use in UK isolated shaver outlets to allow for
recharging. In fact IIRC MK actually make, for the *UK market*
two pin shaver outlets /without/ a isolating transformer for
fitting into non-hazardous areas such as bedrooms and dressing
rooms.

:
: A friend of mine has recently built a new house and her wiring
has in
: one room - quite legally - an old-fashioned 5-amp round pin
socket.
:

....and very useful they are too, allowing for remote operation of
non fixed lighting.
Their 15A round pin cousins are still legal too, of course they
have to be installed on radial circuits, one such use is on
emersion heaters were the control switch is remote from the water
tanks location, thus enabling a definite DP isolation to be
achieved when servicing/repair is required.
--
Regards, Jerry.

"Paul Ratcliffe" wrote in
message ...
: On Tue, 3 Jan 2012 18:42:22 +0000, J. P. Gilliver (John)
: wrote:
:
: I agree, the BS1363 plug is not my favourite design. Some
years ago there
:
: It is far too big for most of the devices currently on it,
yes - and
: also, the three ratings for the matching fuse (BS1362) widely
available
: are far too high: 3, 5, and 13A. (Even 1A - which you _can_
get in
: BS1362, but you don't half have to hunt for it
:
: Huh? RS have 1,2,3,5,7,10,13 readily available. This is not
what
: I'd call "half having to hunt for".

Except that if you said "RS" to most of the UK's population they
would either look back blankly or think of a Ford motor car that
was popular in the 1970s and '80s. Again Mr Ratcliffe shows that
he lives only in a bubble of techo-babble speak...

:
: - is too high for most
: electronic appliances.) IMO, the fact that the plugs are
fused actually
: gives a _false_ sense of security, _because_ the fuse ratings
are so
: high; all that fuse can effectively protect is the mains lead
(or power
: cord, as it's called in US) itself.
:
: The fuse is only *designed* to protect the mains lead, not the
device to
: which the lead is connected. That's what the device's internal
fuse is for.

Assuming it has one, most domestic appliances don't. Again Mr
Ratcliffe shows that he lives only in a bubble of techo-babble
speak...
--
Regards, Jerry.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
: In article ,
: Jerry wrote:
: Because it can get accidentally switched off due to stuff
being
: moved or pushed to the back of the cupboard!
:
: You keep your fridge in a cupboard?

Err, news:alt.troll is that away Mr Plowman ===

But heck, you have kitchen cupboards that you don't put anything
in?!

:
: Stick some gaffer tape over the switch.
:

Oh right, so your solution is a bodge on a bodge, rather than
doing the job right first time?

In article ,
Don Pearce wrote:
A friend of mine has recently built a new house and her wiring has in
one room - quite legally - an old-fashioned 5-amp round pin socket.

All the 'old' round 3 pin sockets still comply to UK regs - provided they
are on a suitable circuit. A common use is for floor or table lamps
switched from the wall, etc. If on a dimmer, plugging the hoover into that
wouldn't be a good idea...
Some of the modern versions available are shuttered.

--
*Growing old is inevitable, growing up is optional *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Jerry wrote:
: You keep your fridge in a cupboard?

Err, news:alt.troll is that away Mr Plowman ===

Not surprised you have that to hand.

But heck, you have kitchen cupboards that you don't put anything
in?!

I don't put 'anything' in the fridge housing, no. Or the one for the
washing machine etc either. I'd say it's rather rare for anyone to keep a
fridge in an actual cupboard these days. Putting something used for
storage inside something else used for storage strikes me as wasting
space. But then it does sound like you live somewhere with something not
representative of most kitchens.
:
: Stick some gaffer tape over the switch.
:

Oh right, so your solution is a bodge on a bodge, rather than
doing the job right first time?

FFS. If it really concerned me I'd not be whinging about it here - I'd
have changed it years ago.

--
*I used to have an open mind but my brains kept falling out *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
: In article ,
: Jerry wrote:
: : You keep your fridge in a cupboard?
:
: Err, news:alt.troll is that away Mr Plowman ===
:
: Not surprised you have that to hand.

Well when the suit fits...

:
: But heck, you have kitchen cupboards that you don't put
anything
: in?!
:
: I don't put 'anything' in the fridge housing, no. Or the one
for the
: washing machine etc either. I'd say it's rather rare for anyone
to keep a
: fridge in an actual cupboard these days. Putting something used
for
snip further trolling

FFS, what pills are you on these days Plowman?! The cupboard
*next* to a free standing or otherwise fridge, were electricians
(and you, IIRC) often suggest the socket for the fridge supply is
placed -along with a bloody great hole on the side of said
cupboard for the plug to pass through- rather than the more
professional approach of an accessible and visible
'neon-indicated' switched-fuse plate and remote fixed flex outlet
or (if disconnection of the appliance needs to be tools free) a
15A round pin socket outlet.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Don Pearce wrote:
A friend of mine has recently built a new house and her wiring has in
one room - quite legally - an old-fashioned 5-amp round pin socket.

All the 'old' round 3 pin sockets still comply to UK regs - provided they
are on a suitable circuit. A common use is for floor or table lamps
switched from the wall, etc. If on a dimmer, plugging the hoover into that
wouldn't be a good idea...
Some of the modern versions available are shuttered.

And of course the 15A version is the de-facto standard for theatrical stage
lighting.

David.

In article ,
Jerry wrote:
FFS, what pills are you on these days Plowman?! The cupboard
*next* to a free standing or otherwise fridge, were electricians
(and you, IIRC) often suggest the socket for the fridge supply is
placed -along with a bloody great hole on the side of said
cupboard for the plug to pass through- rather than the more
professional approach of an accessible and visible
'neon-indicated' switched-fuse plate and remote fixed flex outlet
or (if disconnection of the appliance needs to be tools free) a
15A round pin socket outlet.

Right. You need a neon to tell you the fridge is on? And a handy switch to
switch it off? Have you ever sought treatment?

--
*Support bacteria - they're the only culture some people have *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...

yet more trolling snipped

In article ,
LID says...

"Don Pearce" wrote in message
...
: On Wed, 4 Jan 2012 19:51:51 -0000, Terry Casey
: wrote:
:
snip
:
: Nothing to do with legality, just practicability. If you want
to sell
: goods in the UK market, it is a pretty good idea to supply them
with a
: UK mains plug. Adaptors are for when you travel, not at home.
One
: current exception is mains-powered shavers (only a few left
now), that
: use a two-pin plug specifically designed for an isolated
bathroom
: connector.

Not sure what Terry means by "Mains Powered" (only 240v ?),

Err ...

That was Don, I think you'll find ...
--

Terry

"Terry Casey" wrote in message
...
: In article ,
: LID says...
:
snip
:
: Not sure what Terry means by "Mains Powered" (only 240v ?),
:
: Err ...
:
: That was Don, I think you'll find ...

So it was, sorry! :~(
--
Regards, Jerry.

On Jan 3, 4:39*am, "David Looser" wrote:
wrote in message

...

The British electrical standards are the dumbest on planet, or at
least the dumbest I have ever run into. Except for the Japanese, who
are combine the worst possible voltage standard with two different
frequencies.

In the US, we have two voltages in (all but really really old)
houses: 120 and 240, although most outlets are 120, the ranges,
clothes dryers and air conditioners are 240. And that 240 is balanced.
If we were SERIOUS audiophiles, we'd have 240 volt four pin dryer
outlets put in our listening rooms and run our power amps on 240.

A very large number of countries run their mains supplies at 220-240V, not
just the UK! Electrical standards were not designed for the benefit of
audiophools, but in practice there's nothing wrong with the 230V standard in
this regard. The standard of electrical installations I've seen in the US
are far worse than those normally encountered here. And the high-powered
audio equipment I've seen in the US runs off 120V thus supplies requiring
heavy-guage mains flex. Definitely no improvement on what we have here!

No, my beef is not with 220/240 volt distribution-I prefer it. It's
the goofy room wiring in loops and the goofy sockets the Brits use I
think are ridiculous.

That's why I said the Japanese standard was the worst of all.

In the US we are blessed with having three wire split phase 120/240
in most every house built since WWII and many earlier. We just don't
use it for audio, and my argument is that we should. We also have 60
as opposed to 50 hz, which is better from a power supply design
standpoint, although prudence dictates design for any frequency
between slightly under 50 to well over 60 Hz. except in the case of
motors.

On Jan 3, 5:24*am, "David Looser" wrote:
"Eiron" wrote in message

...



Can I just mention another example of European Union lunacy?
Voltage is standardized at 230v +- a fudge factor so that the UK
can keep to 240v and the rest of Europe can keep 220v with no plans
for any country to adopt 230v. Now that is dumb!

I'm not sure it is so dumb
There always was a tolerance range on the UK 240V mains, what happened was
that these tolerance limits were widened and re-centred on 230V. But these
new limits are now EU-wide so any equipment manufactured to these new limits
(230V +/- 10%) is suitable for sale anywhere within the EU.

And the UK plugs are rather large. That would be a valid criticism.
It spoils the lines of a laptop bag....

I agree, the BS1363 plug is not my favourite design. Some years ago there
was a serious attempt to introduce a EU standard plug & socket, an attempt
that failed because of the NIH (not-invented-here) factor. I rather like the
German 'Shucko' socket and would be happy to see it replace the BS1363
socket here, but can you image the reaction of the Daily Mail readers? :-)

That or the Australian socket would be my choice, or one of the 220
NEMA sockets.

If you are going to build "valve" equipment for the world market you
need a winding scheme on the PT that gives bogey filament voltages at
220, 230 and 240 volts and, I understand that in Australia 250 vac is
not uncommon in practice.

In Britain one may readily obtain a "site transformer" which will
give what is advertised as 110 volt balanced power. I haven't been
there in 20+ years, can any Brits tell me if that's really true or if
120, or more, or less, is actually common? They are used for electric
drills and whatnot outdoors. Vintage US gear works fine at 110, but
mostly not current stuff.

In article
,
wrote:
No, my beef is not with 220/240 volt distribution-I prefer it. It's
the goofy room wiring in loops and the goofy sockets the Brits use I
think are ridiculous.

You need to look up fires caused by poorly specified house distribution
systems in the US, before criticising the UK. It is many times worse than
here.

--
*I used to have an open mind but my brains kept falling out *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Jan 3, 6:21*am, "Jerry" wrote:
"Geoffrey S. Mendelson" wrote in ...

snip
: The UK used several systems, and a friend of mine who traveled
to London
: in the 1970's found that there were four different electrical
systems in use
: in various parts of the city. By that time they had been
standardized to
: 240 volts 50Hz, but the older plugs and lightbulbs (different
ones for
: different systems) remained.

Hmm, surely the 1970s were a tad late for different voltages
(certainly for London), the national grid had been started long
before WW2 and was complete not long after, are you are not
thinking of the different designs of electrical circuits and
sockets in use or perhaps a different time period?

I suppose that some building with their own (derived/generated)
power supplies might have had (still have) 'odd' systems to suit
their own needs, an exception rather than the rule.
--
Regards, Jerry.

A national grid has no need to standardize end user voltages, only
frequency.

Many different HV line voltages are used: houses and small businesses
get their power off a "pole pig" or a ground mounted transformer. They
always have trim windings and somewhere in the system must be a tap
changer setup because I2R losses change over the day as the power
demands vary widely.

It would be possible to have 220 in Northern England, 240 in Scotland
and 230-or 117, or 277, or any number at all-in Southampton. because
off a stepdown transformer you are rarely going more than 500 meters
to 1 km, usually less.

Switchmode equipment doesn't care. Solid state analog equipment is
regulated and has a design input range, power amps are often
unregulated and just make less power at lower line voltage. Tube
(valve) equipment wants its heaters at bogey voltage. In the case of
tungsten filaments on transmitting tubes it needs to be close to spot
on.

In article
,
wrote:
n Britain one may readily obtain a "site transformer" which will
give what is advertised as 110 volt balanced power. I haven't been
there in 20+ years, can any Brits tell me if that's really true or if
120, or more, or less, is actually common? They are used for electric
drills and whatnot outdoors. Vintage US gear works fine at 110, but
mostly not current stuff.

110 volt via an isolating transformer is used on building sites etc for
all power tools. Purely for safety reasons.

--
*I'm pretty sure that sex is better than logic, but I can't prove it.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Jan 4, 2:06*am, "David Looser" wrote:
"Jerry" wrote



Not very often, just as kids in areas that do not use the UK's
BS1363 plug/socket don't tend to poke things into other types of
sockets, why because they are *taught* not to whilst being
supervised, of course that is to hard for average UK parents to
manage so the state has to hold their hands so to speak!

And with that paragraph you have blown any credibility you might have hoped
to acquire!

David.

Making things idiotproof makes better idiots.

The British nanny state is disgusting, dysgenic and depressing but
the US is headed in the exact same direction. The only bright spot is
that when WE implode our empire as you did yours (and, sadly, we
helped: Enoch Powell was oh so correct to hate us for that, although I
was not born when the stuff started and a seven year old when it
pretty much ended: we visited your lily pad back then and it was still
pounds, shillings, pence and no one could make change) the entire
economic system is coming down too and it will have to end pretty much
all over the West.

So don't take my comments the wrong way. We're _worse_ than you are
because we have the example of the mother country at our nose and
we're doing it anyway. God Save the Queen.

On Jan 4, 5:27*am, Terry Casey wrote:
In article ,
says...



In message , Geoffrey S.
Mendelson writes:

The UK used several systems, and a friend of mine who traveled to London
in the 1970's found that there were four different electrical systems in use
in various parts of the city. By that time they had been standardized to
240 volts 50Hz, but the older plugs and lightbulbs (different ones for
different systems) remained.

Your friend sounds confused. The 240/50 was standardised a long time
before 1970, and the various plugs and bulbs had been running on 240/50
for some decades by then.

I remember a major upgrade taking place in West Ham to upgrade the
distribution network from 215V AC to the standard 240V while I was at
school there in the late 50s.

Nearby Ilford still had 200V DC, a hangover from when Ilford town
council generated 600V DC for its tramways and obviously found it
convenient to stick to DC for domestic supplies.

When it was converted to 240V AC I do not know but there was no evidence
of anything remotely DC connected when I moved there in the early 70s.

In the US there were 25 Hz buildings and even houses as late as the
early 70s and a few DC apartment and office buildings in New York
later than that. I stayed at a swank highrise in Chicago in the early
70s that was AC by then but was originally DC and there was evidence
of it in the labels tacked in the fuse box.

We also had a little 50 Hz before the war.

I've always wanted to do a full study of DC and odd frequency power
historically in the US but the research is not helped by the
electrical utilities. I think they are ashamed of it.

On Jan 27, 6:25*pm, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:
In article
,
* wrote:

*No, my beef is not with 220/240 volt distribution-I prefer it. It's
the goofy room wiring in loops and the goofy sockets the Brits use I
think are ridiculous.

You need to look up fires caused by poorly specified house distribution
systems in the US, before criticising the UK. It is many times worse than
here.

In the US, electrical house fires are mostly a result of incompetent
DIY wiring or failed appliances......or arson.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
: In article
:
,
: wrote:
: No, my beef is not with 220/240 volt distribution-I prefer
it. It's
: the goofy room wiring in loops and the goofy sockets the
Brits use I
: think are ridiculous.
:
: You need to look up fires caused by poorly specified house
distribution
: systems in the US, before criticising the UK. It is many times
worse than
: here.
:

But that is not caused but the use of radial circuits (opposed to
a ring circuit), it's the poor hardware (fittings and conductor)
used that causes the problem. If radial circuits were a fire
hazard, never mind actually being the cause of fires, then just
about every film/TV studio, theatre and other entertainment
venues that have a fixed lighting rig would either have burnt
down or been shut down on H&S grounds!

There is nothing wrong with radial circuits, the only two down
sides are amount of cabling needed and the size of the breaker
panel - IIRC ring circuits were introduced into the UK in an
attempt to save on cabling, due to cost. Radial circuits are
still, to this day, permitted.
--
Regards, Jerry.

In article
,
wrote:
You need to look up fires caused by poorly specified house
distribution systems in the US, before criticising the UK. It is many
times worse than here.

In the US, electrical house fires are mostly a result of incompetent
DIY wiring or failed appliances......or arson.


One of the major reasons is those 'wire nuts' oh so common, and banned
over here many many years ago.

--
*Some people are alive only because it's illegal to kill them *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article
,
wrote:
and it was still
pounds, shillings, pence and no one could make change

In the days of lsd, the average person could do rudimentary mental
arithmetic. These days most need a calculator, even although a base 10
system makes things simpler.

But of you're so dismissive of a non decimal currency, why does the US
stick to imperial measurements for just about everything else?

--
*Not all men are annoying. Some are dead.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.