"J G Miller" wrote

Meanwhile analog TV transmissions continue in England and Northern Ireland
...

And??

David.

In article ,
Mike Tomlinson wrote:
In article ,
Terry Casey writes

Finally, the sleeving was changed from green to green/yellow ..

IIRC, it was to make it easier for colour-blind people to identify.

There's also been another change: the cores in T&E (=romex) used to be
red and black for phase and neutral, now it's been harmonised with
Europe to brown and blue.

You make it sound like 'we' were forced to adopt another country's
standard.
Flex colours were originally changed to harmonise the sales of electrical
goods across Europe - in the same way as our electricity supply became 230
volts instead of 240. Without changing a thing. ;-)
The flex colours were chosen so a colour blind person could still
differentiate between them - if, of course, he knew that the dark one was
line...

Permanent cable changed quite recently to the same colours.

Three-phase wiring has been harmonised from red, blue and yellow for the
phases and black neutral to brown, black, black and blue neutral. Yeah,
I know...

Red(L1) Yellow(L2) Blue(L3) now is Brown Black Grey

--
*Funny, I don't remember being absent minded.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 2/7/12 11:38 PM, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , David Looser
writes:
[]
Well it might, but in practice there don't seem to have been many
problems
caused by not harmonising spectrum use with the the continent. To be
honest
I think the government made the right decision, the limited VHF spectrum
available in Bands 1 & 3 would only just have been enough for one extra
625-line TV channel.
[]
? - one on band I and at least one on band III, surely? I lived in
(West) Germany in the 1960s and '70s, and I'm sure we could get at least
two channels on band III (yes, I know B and G channels are narrower, but
not that much).

There were some areas with two band III channels, Brussels for instance
on E.8 and E.10. With a bit of luck you could get a Dutch channel too or
a Frech one in the South. We got three Band III signals in Brussels
around 1966 (Belgium French and Flemish as well as France).
This of course would not have meant that full area coverage like the
whole of the UK would have been possible.

Holland had only one channel on VHF, partly because Belgium needed two
in Brussels. I think most of Germany had only one too, except if you
were close to the border between West and East (or Berlin).

For the UK two channels was possible using 405 lines because they used
narrower channels, leaving room for more channels to allocate to
transmitters. Even then, different polarization was often necessary to
separate the signals.

gr, hwh

On 2/8/12 1:35 PM, Terry Casey wrote:
Yes, but don't forget the Belgian system H with 1.25MHz vsb ...

http://stjarnhimlen.se/tv/tv.html

A list of systems is one of the many facts on this page.

gr, hwh

On 2/8/12 2:41 PM, Terry Casey wrote:
The same was true of cable systems. As TV sets were incapable of
operating with adjacent channels, they carried only alternate channels.

Dutch cable tv provider Casema used a scheme like 24 28 31 35 38 42 etc.
Interference products tended to be out of the used channels.

When tv sets became better over time many more channels were used,
including most VHF channels.

gr, hwh

On Tuesday, February 7th, 2012, at 23:38:08h +0000, Mark Zenier wrote:

tankloads of really radioactive crap that's still there, 65 years later

Some people in the UK newsgroups may think you are just talking about
a dozen or less tankloads, nothing really significant.

It is budgetwise and timewise the World's Biggest Environmental Cleanup.

http://www.kuow.ORG/northwestnews.php?storyID=145321419

QUOTE

Hanford officials had estimated there were about 10 kilograms
of plutonium in the site's 56 million gallons of radioactive sludge.

UNQUOTE

http://www.loe.ORG/shows/segments.html?programID=12-P13-00005&segmentID=4

QUOTE

Hanford - a 580 square mile complex along the Columbia River.

...

270 billion gallons of contaminated ground water and 53 million gallons
of waste in 177 storage underground tanks.

This waste is the legacy of more than 5 decades of plutonium production making

UNQUOTE

All because of the perceived need to produce weapons of mutual annihilation.

On Wednesday, February 8th, 2012, at 19:24:53h +0000, J G Miller wrote:

QUOTE

Hanford officials had estimated there were about 10 kilograms of
plutonium in the site's 56 million gallons of radioactive sludge.

UNQUOTE

Sorry, I missed out the important update --

QUOTE

Now, that 10-kilogram estimate has risen to at least 30 kilograms
and as much as 130 kilograms of plutonium.

UNQUOTE

Do not forget that plutonium is not only highly radioactive,
it is also highly toxic.

In message , hwh
writes
On 2/8/12 1:35 PM, Terry Casey wrote:
Yes, but don't forget the Belgian system H with 1.25MHz vsb ...

http://stjarnhimlen.se/tv/tv.html

A list of systems is one of the many facts on this page.

That is a most excellent website!
--
Ian

In message ,
Terry Casey writes:
In article ,
says...

In message , David Looser
writes:
[]
Well it might, but in practice there don't seem to have been many problems
caused by not harmonising spectrum use with the the continent. To be honest
I think the government made the right decision, the limited VHF spectrum
available in Bands 1 & 3 would only just have been enough for one extra
625-line TV channel.
[]
? - one on band I and at least one on band III, surely? I lived in
(West) Germany in the 1960s and '70s, and I'm sure we could get at least
two channels on band III (yes, I know B and G channels are narrower, but
not that much).

Were both channels available nationwide or just in densely populated
areas?

I can't remember, I'm afraid. I was only 10 +/- at the time! ISTR
"German one" - ARD - was the one on band I, and was pickable-up where we
were (Dortmund, then Muelheim) on the proverbial wet string, and was a
painfully clear picture. I _think_ we could get more than one on band
III.

Or is German topography more amenable to providing large area coverage
with fewer transmitters?

It has as varied topography as the UK, I would say.

(I'm thinking here of the German plains that we were told for many years
provided ease of access for Soviet tanks ...)

There were indeed such plains east of Dortmund; our lot* went there a
lot for exercises. I think they were (are) fairly sparsely populated,
though, so less germane to these discussions: big agriculture area,
IIRR.

(* My dad was a civilian [language lecturer] attached to the British
army there.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G.5AL-IS-P--Ch++(p)Ar@T0H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

I long for the commercialised Christmas of the 1970s. It's got so religious
now, it's lost its true meaning. - Mike [{at}ostic.demon.co.uk], 2003-12-24

In message , Mike Tomlinson
writes:
In article ,
Terry Casey writes

Finally, the sleeving was changed from green to green/yellow ..

IIRC, it was to make it easier for colour-blind people to identify.

Yes - green/red being the commonest form of colourblindness. Though
making one stripy meant anyone could get it. (A physics master - I think
it was - once told me: brown is what you'll go if you touch it, green
and yellow think buttercups on grass i. e. earth.)

Old German (flex - I don't know about house) colours were red, black,
and grey - I can't remember which was which. I have an old globe with
these colours.

There's also been another change: the cores in T&E (=romex) used to be
red and black for phase and neutral, now it's been harmonised with
Europe to brown and blue.

Three-phase wiring has been harmonised from red, blue and yellow for the

Or, a _long_ time ago, red, blue, and white. (I did my apprenticeship
with Reyrolle Switchgear, where Really old came up all the time ...)

phases and black neutral to brown, black, black and blue neutral. Yeah,
I know...

It _does_ seem odd. Not only the change keeping black but for a
different purpose, but also having _two_ of the phases the same colour.
(If that _is_ truly the case and not one of them grey, as some have
claimed in this thread.)

Though on the subject of motors turning the wrong way etc.: is it
definitely true that you always get the same phase relationship between
red, blue, and yellow? (And what happens at star-delta or delta-star
transformers: are the outputs still coloured red, blue, and yellow?)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G.5AL-IS-P--Ch++(p)Ar@T0H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

The love that dared not speak its name, has become the love that won't shut
up. - Simon Fanshawe (article on Gay Comedy), Radio Times 25 Sept-1 Oct 2010

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:

Then why not use 2.5mm? 4mm?

Tables and guidelines are readily available to help you choose the correct
cable for your individual requirements. But in general 1mm is just fine
for a domestic lighting circuit protected by a 6 amp breaker.


15A is the smallest in use in the US, exept in industral machines.

--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense.

J G Miller wrote:

On Monday, February 6th, 2012, at 13:47:19h +0000, Ron exclaimed:

Oh good, we're going to argue about who can boil a kettle the fastest...
you couldn`t make it up!

It is now time to call in the experts to discuss whether or not
quickly boiled water tastes better than slowly boiled water,
depending of course on how it is going to be used, probably
for making tea.


Or if you should even drink tea.

--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense.

"Geoffrey S. Mendelson" wrote:

Ron wrote:

Obviously water boiled with AC is far superior to water boiled with DC.
Alternating current jiggles the molecules up more.

Nothing beats the taste of tea made from water boiled over an old fashioned
wood fire.


Red Skelton claimed it came from tea made with the water heated in
the radiator of a Model T Ford:

http://famousclowns.org/red-skelton/freddy-the-freeloader-red-skeltons-famous-hobo-clown/
--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense.

J G Miller wrote:

All because of the perceived need to produce weapons of mutual annihilation.


We wouldn't need to do it, if you Europeans would stop starting World
Wars.


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense.

Arny Krueger wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Arny Krueger wrote:
The UK outlet is actually slightly less well-accepted than the US
outlet.

You could say the same about analogue TV. Doesn't make 525/60 NTSC better
than 625/50 PAL, though. ;-)

????

Analog TV, what's that? ;-)

AFAIK, we haven't had analog TV broadcast anywhere in the US since June
2009. I know that in theory, US broadcasters have into 2015 to make the
switch, but in reality the switchover was highly pervasive on the first day
possible, not the last.


Look again. Some low power transmitters still transmit NTSC. There
is supposed to be one withing range here, but I can't get any TV signals
since the switch.

http://www.tvfool.com will show you what is supposed to be availible in
your area.


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense.

Arny Krueger wrote:

"Peter Larsen" wrote in message
k...
Ron wrote:

Surely you remember analogue TV Arny, it's when we had five channels
of rubbish, now we have 900 channels and it's still rubbish

What's TV?

Something that can actually be enjoyable, useful and even a bit educational,
managed well.

A capacious 2 channel DVR is a big help.


An internet ready BluRay is better. A lot of free TV via the
internet including classic movies, comedy and Sci-Fi.

BTW, reading the messages of some of the trolls on this thread
reminded me that the new 'Three Stooges' movie is due to be released
next month.


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense.

"Geoffrey S. Mendelson" wrote:

hwh wrote:
On 2/5/12 7:04 PM, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
But you've got to remember that this is the country that kept 405-line
going for, I think, longer after 625 started than it had been going
before that.

Erm, 405 started before the war and was alone until 1964? Then it
continued for another 20 years?

Someone said the last two years of 405 line signals were generated by an unusal
method, I think the word they used was "endearing". What was it?

BTW, the BBC shut down TV broadcasts in for World War II, and resumed
them at the exact point in the same broadcast after the war. :-)


That's very easy to do with film. I should know. I loaded and ran
truckloads of 16 mm film on a pair of RCA TP66 projectors in the '70s.


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense.

"Geoffrey S. Mendelson" wrote:

I don't know how well UK sets worked in the 1960's, but US TV sets were
not capable of receiving adjcent channels at one time, so they were not
used. For example, channel 2 was used in New York City, while the nearest
channel 3 station was in Philadelphia, 90 miles away and too far to be
received without a large antenna.


Those '60s TVs worked fine on CATV, with no open channels. Even sets
from the '50s work well that way. Early CATV was simply 12 VHF channels
deilivered to the TV at 0 dBm to +5 dBm. Some super cheap sets with a
single IF stage and no RF stage didn't work well, but they were the
floor sweepings of the industry and intended for markets where there was
only one or two stations. 'Madman' Earl Muntz made some real crap.


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense.

"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote

It _does_ seem odd. Not only the change keeping black but for a different
purpose, but also having _two_ of the phases the same colour. (If that
_is_ truly the case and not one of them grey, as some have claimed in this
thread.)

Its hardly a "claim", its there in Black & White in Appendix 7 of BS7671:
(Table 7A on page 342 of the 2008 edition)

L1 Brown
L2 Black
L3 Grey

I can't see how it could be clearer.

David.

Ian Jackson wrote:

In message , Geoffrey S.
Mendelson writes
David Looser wrote:

Of course if you are only looking for local coverage you could run several
networks in the available spectrum. But the argument was that VHF gave
better national coverage than UHF. If that is the aim then, I suggest, you'd
need both Bands 1 and 3 to give truly national coverage of just one network.
Its probable that it would be possible to add a second network that only
covered the main population centres, as Analogue Channel 5 did on UHF.

I don't know how well UK sets worked in the 1960's, but US TV sets were
not capable of receiving adjcent channels at one time, so they were not
used. For example, channel 2 was used in New York City, while the nearest
channel 3 station was in Philadelphia, 90 miles away and too far to be
received without a large antenna.

I think the next one up was 5 in NYC and 6 in Philly.

Generally, UK (and even European) TV sets had a hard time with adjacent
channels. Like the USA, the off-air broadcast channels were arranged so
that, within the normal service area, there would never be an adjacent
channel which was anything like as strong as the channel(s) intended for
that area.


That was a problem with very early vacuum tube CATV trunk amplifiers
that were run single ended. They generated a lot of IMD. Even '60s
solid state push-pull Trunk amps had no problem with adjacent channels.
CATV converters only made it possible to add more channels to broadcast
only TV sets. Some converted to a low VHF channel, (Hamlin, Jerrold,
Oak) and others (Eagle) converted everything up to the UHF band. I
repaired in excess of 10,000 CATV converters in the '80s, in a four year
period along with all of the head end equipment.


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense.

Mike Tomlinson wrote:

In article , Arny Krueger
writes

http://hostedmedia.reimanpub.com/TFH..._OUTLET_03.jpg

The ground wires in that picture appear to be in bare copper, borne out
by the person using a multimeter with a probe resting on the ground
wire. If so, that's pretty shoddy. What's to stop it coming into
contact with the exposed hot and neutral screws on the outlet body as
the outlet is pushed back into the box?


Knowing how to do the job takes care of it. It's quite easy to do
properly, since the ground is on the end of the outlet. Once it's
pushed back into the box and screwed down, the solid wire can't move.
That photo is sloppy work, and in most areas you have to use a green
wire nut for grounds. Some require a 'greenie, which has a hole through
the top, for the wire that goes to the device. When all the wires are
connected, the ground is pushed into the back of the box, then the
insulated wires. There is enough room in the box for all the wire. I
wouldn't use the second pair of wire nuts. I would use both sets of
screws on the outlet. This picture looks like it comes from a cheap
'DIY' book for and by people with no clues.

Here is a 'Greenie':
http://www.idealindustries.com/prodDetail.do?prodId=greenie-grounding-connectors&div=0&l1=grounding


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense.

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
m...

"Geoffrey S. Mendelson" wrote:

hwh wrote:
On 2/5/12 7:04 PM, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
But you've got to remember that this is the country that kept 405-line
going for, I think, longer after 625 started than it had been going
before that.

Erm, 405 started before the war and was alone until 1964? Then it
continued for another 20 years?

Someone said the last two years of 405 line signals were generated by an
unusal
method, I think the word they used was "endearing". What was it?

BTW, the BBC shut down TV broadcasts in for World War II, and resumed
them at the exact point in the same broadcast after the war. :-)


That's very easy to do with film. I should know. I loaded and ran
truckloads of 16 mm film on a pair of RCA TP66 projectors in the '70s.

I'm sure it is, but as we've already established that the "exact point in
the same broadcast" bit isn't true its not relevant.

The myth that the engineers simply ceased transmission half-way through a
programme and left the station like a sort of Mary Celeste has been
widespread, but it is a myth. In fact there was an orderly shut down and the
film in the machines would have been rewound and put into storage before the
staff left. It would have been 35mm film (the BBC didn't have facilities for
transmitting from 16mm film pre-war) and thus on nitrate stock. NOT putting
it into proper storage would have constituted a fire hazard and been in
contravention of fire regulations.

David.

Dave Liquorice wrote:

On Mon, 6 Feb 2012 11:40:34 +0000, Mike Tomlinson wrote:

How are sockets connected on a radial circuit? Separate terminals
for
in and out?

Yes, connecting screws each side of the socket.

Completely open as well not shroded at all. Don't like that, damaged
cover plate and very easy for little (or not so little) fingers to
make contact with a live screw.


Security screws are aailible so a plate can't be removed with common
tools. Any kind of family who won't replace a damaged wall plate is
likely to leave lots of other hazards around for their kids. A hell of
a lot more kids drown than get electrocuted.


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense.

Mike Tomlinson wrote:

Killfile fodder.


No problem. Goodbye!


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:

In article ,
Michael A. Terrell wrote:
Oh, but *I* have. Did some work on an American Optical installation that
used these some time ago - and just assumed the design had been changed
for something better by now.

Why change it? They have a damn good safety record, and there are over
a billion in use. Just because someone outside the US dislikes them is
no reason to change. There are multiple grades, from what I linked, to
medical grade with extreme low leakage. There are commercial grade,
intended for heavy usage. Think about it. Most plugs are rarely
inserted or removed, and the standard duty is fine.

The fact there are multiple grades says much. Better to use an entirely
different connector for arduous duty. Then there is no danger of mixing
them up.


How do you confuse the bright orange medical grade with the ivory
white or brown consumer hardware?


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense.

"Geoffrey S. Mendelson" wrote:

Terry Casey wrote:

I've always wondered if somebody might have been seen furtively slipping
out of the back door of Broadcasting House that Monday afternoon before
setting off to walk down to Battersea Bridge with a box of matches in
his coat pocket ...

No, no, no it was hit by flying pig dung. :-)


I'll beleive that when pigs fly, and I'm not talking about 'PIGS IN
SPACE!!!' ;-)

--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense.

In article ,
Michael A. Terrell wrote:
The fact there are multiple grades says much. Better to use an entirely
different connector for arduous duty. Then there is no danger of mixing
them up.


How do you confuse the bright orange medical grade with the ivory
white or brown consumer hardware?

You expect a cleaner or whatever to know the difference? If the plug fits
someone will manage to get it wrong.

--
*Eschew obfuscation *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

David Looser wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
m...

David Looser wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote

Why should items intended for ESA
earth stations need to be inspected for US use?


Where did I say that they were?

Why mention that they weren't inspected for US use if they didn't need to
be?


The hardware had to be, no matter where it was shipped to. The power
wiring had to meet the standards of where it was shipped to.


And of course they are incompatible with the US market, they are meant
meant to be compatible with a European standard, wasn't that why the
ESA specified them?


Isn't that obvious? They wanted what they are used to using.

Well I thought it was obvious, why I why I queried the fact that you
apparently thought otherwise

I'm also confused by your reference to "foreign tourists", since when
have
tourists bought earth stations?


When have you ever seen brand new, custom built US $8,000,000 earth
stations for sale at a flea market? You are in such a hurry to find
fault that you don't bother to consider the meaning of the text.

I wasn't in a "hurry" to find fault at all. I actually spent some time
reading your post trying to decipher the meaning. But since what you wrote
was so vague and confused I asked for clarification of what you actually
meant.


In that case I apologize.


'Foreign tourists' here on vacation were buying them in Florida and
taking them to Europe because they were a lot cheaper than similar items
in the UK.

You are still being vague. What foreign tourists, and what were they buying?

And finally since when have socket outlets included voltmeters?


Since China sold them.

Well OK, I've never seen one. I doubt that they conform to UK standards.


They had UK outlets, and the 'voltmeter was about 1/2" * 3/4" like the
tiny VU meters that were popular 30 years ago in battery powered tape
recorders.


I could probably go to a flea market and
take a picture of one, if you need convinced that they exist. Even
then, you would probably claim they were fakes.

You appear to think that I am deliberately finding fault with your post. I'm
not, I'm simply asking for clarification of the meaning of your vague and
confused


There are too many sub threads in this thread to keep everything
straight Is my guess. I have had so many comments challenged by o
may different people that it's hard to keep them straight. I did put a
smiley at the end of that paragraph to show I was joking about not
believing a photo.


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense.

I've always wondered if somebody might have been seen furtively slipping
out of the back door of Broadcasting House that Monday afternoon before
setting off to walk down to Battersea Bridge with a box of matches in
his coat pocket ...


I wrote:

No, no, no it was hit by flying pig dung. :-)


Michael A. Terrell wrote:

I'll beleive that when pigs fly, and I'm not talking about 'PIGS IN
SPACE!!!' ;-)


Pink Floyd album cover:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Pink_Floyd-Animals-Frontal.jpg

Flying pig over the Battersea Power Station.

Geoff.
--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, N3OWJ/4X1GM
My high blood pressure medicine reduces my midichlorian count. :-(

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
...

J G Miller wrote:

All because of the perceived need to produce weapons of mutual
annihilation.


We wouldn't need to do it, if you Europeans would stop starting World
Wars.


According to the history books the US entered WW2 because it was attacked by
the Japanese. It seems that Michael A. Terrell thinks that Japan is in
Europe.

David.

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote

They had UK outlets, and the 'voltmeter was about 1/2" * 3/4" like the
tiny VU meters that were popular 30 years ago in battery powered tape
recorders.


Now that I *would* like to see a photo of, because I cannot imagine what
they look like from that description. Wherabouts on the socket faceplate is
the meter fitted? You say they have UK outlets, so why are they not
available here? Why would the Chinese make UK sockets and only sell them in
Florida? it makes no sense.

I'm also still puzzled by the claim that "tourists" are buying socket
outlets in flea markets in the US to bring home with them. Socket outlets
are simply far too cheap here to make it worth the bother and expense of
purchasing with foreign currency and then having to pack in one's
weight-limited luggage.

"Look what I've brought you as a souvenir of my holiday in Florida, its a
cheaply made Chinese copy of a BS1363 outlet",

I can't see it somehow!

David.

In article , David Looser
writes


According to the history books the US entered WW2 because it was attacked by
the Japanese. It seems that Michael A. Terrell thinks that Japan is in
Europe.

Wouldn't surprise me, seeing the average American's knowledge of
geography. A very insular country.

Also, what about the current sabre-rattling over Iraq? There's some
right-wing American pols very keen on another war in the Middle East.

--
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

In article ,
says...


I'm also still puzzled by the claim that "tourists" are buying socket
outlets in flea markets in the US to bring home with them. Socket outlets
are simply far too cheap here to make it worth the bother and expense of
purchasing with foreign currency and then having to pack in one's
weight-limited luggage.


I would agree with that but then, 'tourists' are a peculiar breed! If
they've never looked further than the local High Street or shed they
might expect to pay around £5 (or more)

http://www.diy.com/nav/fix/electrica...hite-switches-
sockets/mk_white_range/MK-Double-Socket-White-13A-9289618

or http://tinyurl.com/7fkucwo

rather than a little over a pound:

http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Elec...cessories/Cont
ractors+Twin+Switched+Socket+5+Pack+Single+Pole/d190/sd2633/p33287

or http://tinyurl.com/65bp6m7

although the price in dollars - $1.85 each - looks much higher.

How cheap do they need to be to persuade 'tourists' to buy them ...?


"Look what I've brought you as a souvenir of my holiday in Florida, its a
cheaply made Chinese copy of a BS1363 outlet",


Of course it is quite likely that many that are sold in the UK also
originate in China ...!

--

Terry

David Looser wrote:

According to the history books the US entered WW2 because it was attacked by
the Japanese. It seems that Michael A. Terrell thinks that Japan is in
Europe.

The US was already active in the war, but not officially. US volunter pilots
were flying missions against both Japan and Germany. THe US was providing
equipment and supplies on a "lend lease" program that allowed them to do it
for free, without violating the official neutrality polices.

US ships were acting as "human shields" to shipping convoys in hope that
a U-Boat would miss their target and hit one, allowing the US to enter into
the war.

Bear in mind that although Roosevelt was pro-war, a lot of people in the US
supported Hitler or wanted to remain neutral. He was just waiting for
an excuse to enter the war.

It was just a matter of time, and a fortunate one. If Japan had not attacked
on Dec 7, 1941 and the US did not enter the war until 1943 or 1944, it would
not of gone the way it did.

Looking back in hindsight, it would have been very likely that if Europe was
not invaded in 1994, by 1946 the Luftwaffe would of had a jet engine
bomber that was undetectable until 20 miles of the coast, able to
fly to New York and an atomic bomb to drop from it.

There was a Discovery Channel show where they built a mock up of the design,
you can find it on the internet.

But you are right, the history books, as least as everyone remembers them
says that the US entered the war because the Japanese attacked.

Geoff.


--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, N3OWJ/4X1GM
My high blood pressure medicine reduces my midichlorian count. :-(

Mike Tomlinson wrote:

Mortimer writes

You mean that two of the phases are the *same* colour?

Yes.

Surely not

Unbelievable but true. Foisted on us by the Eurocrats in Brussels

No, the phases are *NOT* brown, black & black, they are brown, black and
grey - with blue as neutral.

https://encrypted-tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSZUiPgXe-2_ZnlZOxoGaomZJ-8H_g4TPQocO1V6fRh6U25GCGj

Geoffrey S. Mendelson wrote:

Looking back in hindsight, it would have been very likely that if Europe was
not invaded in 1994, by 1946 the Luftwaffe would of had a jet engine
bomber that was undetectable until 20 miles of the coast, able to
fly to New York and an atomic bomb to drop from it.

Serves me right for not having my morning coffee BEFORE I type anything.

It should say 1944 not 1994.

Geoff.


--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, N3OWJ/4X1GM
My high blood pressure medicine reduces my midichlorian count. :-(

In article ,
says...

"Terry Casey" wrote in message
...
In article , says...


From http://www.hywel.org.UK/bbc2launch/

QUOTE

When BBC2 launched on April 20th 1964, ...


UNQUOTE


panto mode.

Oh no it didn't!

/panto mode

OK, two can play at this game:

panto mode

Oh yes it did!

/panto mode

The launch of BBC2 was PLANNED for April 20th 1964 but a fire at
Battersea Power Station blacked out large areas of west London -
including the Television Centre - shortly before BBC2 was due to start.

In fact BBC2 *did* launch on April 20th, from a news studio at Alexandra
Palace, I've seen the recording. Not suprisingly the headline news item was
the power cut!


I think I'll put this down to short term memory loss ...

The version of events I described is the one that has been quoted for
over 40 years but I only became aware of that bulletin a couple of
months ago ...

Was it a recording you saw - or a film made at the time?

It was rather a pathetic attempt which should be filed in the "it would
have been better if they hadn't bothered" category.

I don't know what the viewers (if there were any left!) made of it at
the time but, when I saw the film it generated some laughter - possibly
out of pity - from some of the audience.

I should have a recording of it somewhere ...

--

Terry

In article , Andy
Burns writes

No, the phases are *NOT* brown, black & black, they are brown, black and
grey - with blue as neutral.

I refer you to the photo I posted a link to elsewhere.

--
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

In article ,
says...


Old German (flex - I don't know about house) colours were red, black,
and grey - I can't remember which was which.


Well, you had a better reason for remembering than most! The important
one was the red one!

See here ...

http://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/s...10&postcount=1

--

Terry

In article ,
says...

snip

Looking back in hindsight, it would have been very likely that if Europe was
not invaded in 1994, by 1946 the Luftwaffe would of had a jet engine
bomber that was undetectable until 20 miles of the coast, able to
fly to New York and an atomic bomb to drop from it.


Not a bomber - it would have been the A10 rocket.

The A10 was a prosed development of the A4 rocket that was the basis
for the V2 bombs that fell on London (as opposed to the jet engined V1
flying bomb known colloquially as the 'doodlebug' - I think the US term
is buzz-bomb).

To bring this back 'on course' - at least, for uk.tech.broadcast readers
- the A10 rocket is mentioned in this historic article:

http://lakdiva.org/clarke/1945ww/194...t_305-308.html

--

Terry