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Electronics Repair (sci.electronics.repair) Discussion of repairing electronic equipment. Topics include requests for assistance, where to obtain servicing information and parts, techniques for diagnosis and repair, and annecdotes about success, failures and problems. |
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#401
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Audio Precision System One Dual Domani Measuirement Systems
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message ... In article , Arny Krueger wrote: http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l1...erWardrobe.jpg Seems like a lot of wiring and separate little boxes to handle not so many circuits. I presume that it provides service for more than just one little hotel room. Here's something more representative:- http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q...akkies/002.jpg If everything is on a ring, why are there an odd number of breakers? |
#402
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Audio Precision System One Dual Domani Measuirement Systems
On Fri, 3 Feb 2012 13:50:55 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote: "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message ... In article , Arny Krueger wrote: http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l1...erWardrobe.jpg Seems like a lot of wiring and separate little boxes to handle not so many circuits. I presume that it provides service for more than just one little hotel room. Here's something more representative:- http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q...akkies/002.jpg If everything is on a ring, why are there an odd number of breakers? The ring returns to the same breaker. There isn't a separate one for each end of the ring. d |
#403
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Audio Precision System One Dual Domani Measuirement Systems
"Mortimer" wrote in message ... Ah, is the limit on a 110V circuit only 15A? True for common circuits wired with 14 gauge wire. 20 gauge wiring is protected for 20 amps. I can see how you'd hit that limit pretty quickly. I'd assumed that with half the voltage the circuits would be rated for twice the current so as to still be able to drive equipment of the same power. No. I suppose a 3 kW (3-bar) electric fire needs more than a normal circuit, We simply don't have those. Our room heaters are usually are rated at about 15 amps max. given that it draws 12.5 A at 240 V, so an equivalent one for 110V would be a little over 25 A. And as for a 6 kW electric shower, that would be 50 A. Quite a current! OK, so showers need their own circuit even in 240 V land! We don't have electric showers. If electric is used for water heating it is used via a central electric water heater on 240 v. Natural gas rules for heating around here. The economics are far better. We've had copious amounts natural gas around here from the southwest US and gulf area since right after WW2. Prior to that there was coal gas in lesser amounts and more expensive. As a matter of interest, when a mains socket is switched from a wall switch for use with table lamps so they can all be switched on as you come into a room, are those circuits rated at the same current as other non-switched circuits or are they specially labelled to prevent people accidentally plugging powerful appliances into what is effectively a lighting circuit? The socket, wiring and switch would usually be rated at 15 amps or sometimes 20 amps. |
#404
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Audio Precision System One Dual Domani Measuirement Systems
"Don Pearce" wrote in message ... On Fri, 3 Feb 2012 13:50:55 -0500, "Arny Krueger" wrote: "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message ... In article , Arny Krueger wrote: http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l1...erWardrobe.jpg Seems like a lot of wiring and separate little boxes to handle not so many circuits. I presume that it provides service for more than just one little hotel room. Here's something more representative:- http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q...akkies/002.jpg If everything is on a ring, why are there an odd number of breakers? The ring returns to the same breaker. There isn't a separate one for each end of the ring. The breakers are 4 pole? |
#405
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Audio Precision System One Dual Domani Measuirement Systems
Arny Krueger wrote:
"Don Pearce" wrote in message ... On Fri, 3 Feb 2012 13:50:55 -0500, "Arny Krueger" wrote: "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message ... In article , Arny Krueger wrote: http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l1...erWardrobe.jpg Seems like a lot of wiring and separate little boxes to handle not so many circuits. I presume that it provides service for more than just one little hotel room. Here's something more representative:- http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q...akkies/002.jpg If everything is on a ring, why are there an odd number of breakers? The ring returns to the same breaker. There isn't a separate one for each end of the ring. The breakers are 4 pole? No, the breakers are normally only single pole, breaking the live only with the neutral and earth (ground) being permanently connected to a bus bar. Both ends of the ring come to the same point on the breaker. There's a diagram and explanation of how these circuits work he- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ring_circuit -- Tciao for Now! John. |
#406
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Audio Precision System One Dual Domani Measuirement Systems
On Fri, 3 Feb 2012 14:00:16 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote: "Don Pearce" wrote in message ... On Fri, 3 Feb 2012 13:50:55 -0500, "Arny Krueger" wrote: "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message ... In article , Arny Krueger wrote: http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l1...erWardrobe.jpg Seems like a lot of wiring and separate little boxes to handle not so many circuits. I presume that it provides service for more than just one little hotel room. Here's something more representative:- http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q...akkies/002.jpg If everything is on a ring, why are there an odd number of breakers? The ring returns to the same breaker. There isn't a separate one for each end of the ring. The breakers are 4 pole? No, you poke both wires into the same terminal hole. d |
#407
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Audio Precision System One Dual Domani Measuirement Systems
On Fri, 3 Feb 2012 13:22:52 -0500, Arny Krueger wrote:
I have a 1500 watt electric pot that heats 1.7 L of water in about 3 minutes. Less water, down to about a liter (what it takes to cover the coils) heats significantly quicker. Cover the coils? How last centaury. B-) Most electric kettles this side of the pond have a flat plate element in the bottom, minimum quantity about half a mug full. We also have "rapid boil" kettles rated at just under 3kW. Similar 1.7l (3.5 US liquid pints, 3 UK pints) capacity though. Just plugs into the ring, along with the microwave, toaster(*), washing machine, tumble dryer etc, none of those have circuits of their own. B-) How ever it is becoming more common to have the kitchen (and thus all those appliances) on it's own ring, then two others for "up stairs" and "down stairs". (*) As in bread, not sure what a "toaster oven" is. -- Cheers Dave. |
#408
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Audio Precision System One Dual Domani Measuirement Systems
On 02/02/2012 22:24, David Looser wrote:
"Arny wrote Seems like a lot of wiring and separate little boxes to handle not so many circuits. I presume that it provides service for more than just one little hotel room. Yes, that's the main incoming supply to the building. The grey unit at the bottom left is the supply company's terminating unit that inludes their fuses. Above that is the meter, to the right of it is a neutral block, and beyond that an isolator (looks like a three-phase + neutral one). I'm not sure what the unit above the isolator is, but at the top of the wardrobe are three consumer units, each, apparently, fed from a different phase. The one on the right seems to feed just one, high-current, load. David. I'm not sure what the unit above the isolator is One of them was the relay for the PIR-triggered lights on the landing outside. Nice solid clonk. At any time of night Andy |
#409
Posted to sci.electronics.repair,uk.rec.audio,uk.tech.broadcast
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Audio Precision System One Dual Domani Measuirement Systems
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
... "Mortimer" wrote in message ... given that it draws 12.5 A at 240 V, so an equivalent one for 110V would And as for a 6 kW electric shower, that would be 50 A. Quite a current! OK, so showers need their own circuit even in 240 V land! We don't have electric showers. If electric is used for water heating it is used via a central electric water heater on 240 v. Natural gas rules for heating around here. The economics are far better. We've had copious amounts natural gas around here from the southwest US and gulf area since right after WW2. Prior to that there was coal gas in lesser amounts and more expensive. Ah. There are some villages or parts of towns which to this day don't have a gas supply. My parents have a holiday cottage in the Yorkshire Dales (near where the TV series All Creatures Great and Small was filmed, if you ever saw that) and about 15 years ago a gas pipe was installed up the main road to serve other villages nearby. Houses on that road got a gas supply installed for free but the main part of the village 1/4 mile away were quoted a stupid, completely unaffordable cost for installing a gas pipe. The farmer offered to dig a trench alongside the road to reduce the gas company's cost (for safety reasons only the gas company could actually install the pipe and connect it to the trunk pipe) but even that wasn't going to reduce the cost at all. So we're stuck with either oil or bottled Calor propane gas for heating. When my parents had central heating installed, bottled gas was cheaper than oil so they had a gas boiler fitted. Now it's the other way round: bottled propane is a horrendous price, second only to electric storage heaters, and oil would have been cheaper. Such is life! Likewise my fiancee's village doesn't have a gas supply though I'm sure there will be a big gas pipe going along the main road 1/2 mile away. Probably the story is the same: "We'll install a gas pipe but it will cost a horrendous amount per house". My first house didn't have gas although it was built as recently as the mid-80s. The houses nearby did: it seems that the builder of my estate chose not to pay for a gas feed to his houses but the builder of the neighbouring estate elected to have gas supplied to his houses, so there was a branch feeding one estate but not the other. Very short-sighted - and it was reflected in the house prices. Electric storage heaters and an electric immersion heater as the *only* means of heating bath-water (as opposed to as a suppliment to a gas boiler) worked out expensive. That was the immersion heater that exploded (see my earlier posting). Luckily the tank was fitted with two heating elements: the one that heated the whole tank only came on at night when there was a cheaper tariff (*) but there was another half-way up the tank that heated at least *some* water at daytime tariff. (*) "Economy 7", which is a dual tariff whereby you pay slightly more than normal for daytime electricity but significantly less for 7 hours during the night when a timer (installed by the electricty company and sealed to prevent it being tampered with to change the cheap hours!) turns on storage heaters and the whole-tank immersion heater. The most useless type of central heating that I've ever encountered was in my parents' previous house, early 1970s vintage. Gas-fired hot-air heating which had an enormous floor-to-ceiling boiler that pumped warm air through aluminium ducts to grilles in the floor or wall. The air that came out of the vent in my bedroom was barely detectable even with a feather and was tepid at best. I started getting a vile smell in my bedroom and we eventually discovered that my little sister had taken up her floor vent and thrown a sandwich down there... which had started to go mouldy :-( |
#410
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Audio Precision System One Dual Domani Measuirement Systems
On Friday, February 3rd, 2012, at 21:24:22h +0000, Mortimer wrote:
So we're stuck with either oil or bottled Calor propane gas for heating. Are you located near a shale deposit and have you considered drilling? my little sister had taken up her floor vent and thrown a sandwich down there At least it was not a mouse or rat. |
#411
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Audio Precision System One Dual Domani Measuirement Systems
"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ll.co.uk... How ever it is becoming more common to have the kitchen (and thus all those appliances) on it's own ring, then two others for "up stairs" and "down stairs". When I had my kitchen re-done recently I took the opportunity to split off the kitchen sockets as a separate ring. My main motivation was to be able to supply it from a separate RCD as, in my experience, kitchen appliances are the major cause of nuisance tripping. David. |
#412
Posted to rec.audio.tech,sci.electronics.repair,uk.rec.audio,uk.tech.broadcast,uk.tech.digital-tv
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Audio Precision System One Dual Domani Measuirement Systems
"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote: In message , Michael A. Terrell writes: Paul Ratcliffe wrote: [] **** off Yank. Patronising *******s aren't you? Not as much as you Brits. You won't take anyone's word on the subject, and you would claim the NEC is wrong, as well. What has the Nippon Electric Company done? About as much as Lucas. -- You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense. |
#413
Posted to rec.audio.tech,sci.electronics.repair,uk.rec.audio,uk.tech.broadcast,uk.tech.digital-tv
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Audio Precision System One Dual Domani Measuirement Systems
David Looser wrote: "Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message m... Think I prefer our system where all of these can be used on any outlet in the house. Although fixed heating would normally have an individual radial circuit. As would water heating. A kitchen electric stove can take up to 50A 240V which is more than your fragile rings can handle. Despite what some others may have mistakenly implied, cookers in the UK have their own radial circuits, usually rated at 40A. Who is going to move a dryer from room to room? OK, but might a dryer not be replaced by another one? A much easier process (and probably safer if carried out by an untrained person) if connected via a plug & socket. The refrigerator or freezer can be plugged in anywhere, but why would you want them anywhere but the kitchen? Same argument as for dryers. What makes you think they don't? I have seen exactly ONE dryer installed without an outlet, and it was directly under the fuse box. Older dryer outlets & plugs were three pin, the current standard is a four pin design, to include the safety ground. The same goes for electric stoves, but those are usually 50A connectors, instead of 20 or 30A. -- You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense. |
#414
Posted to rec.audio.tech,sci.electronics.repair,uk.rec.audio,uk.tech.broadcast,uk.tech.digital-tv
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Audio Precision System One Dual Domani Measuirement Systems
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote: In article , Michael A. Terrell wrote: There is no fixed number. It depends on the floor plan of the house. The only dedicated outlets are for refrigerators, freezers, dryers and electric stoves. Think I prefer our system where all of these can be used on any outlet in the house. Although fixed heating would normally have an individual radial circuit. As would water heating. A kitchen electric stove can take up to 50A 240V which is more than your fragile rings can handle. Sorry - we normally call them cookers, so I missed it. A complete electric cooker would normally have its own radial here too. But most here would go for a gas hob and electric oven - some of which can be run from a 13 amp socket. They are a single unit here. If natural gas is availible, you can chose either. If not, you have the chioce ov very expensive propane, or electric stoves. Who is going to move a dryer from room to room? The refrigerator or freezer can be plugged in anywhere, but why would you want them anywhere but the kitchen? You never alter a kitchen? Yes, three so far. You've never built a house? Or an office building with multiple kitchens? Sigh. Water table, salt air, and hundreds of variables that tighten the standard NEC. Some areas banned BX cable, because it rusts. In some areas you have to use Schedule 80 gray PVC conduit instead of steel. There are good reasons for most exemptions, and rules in the NEC. Some limit the number of rooms per circuit, while others limit the maximum number of outlets per circuit. There are differences all over Europe, which is your side of the line. Europe is a number of different countries, which explains any differences. Although there is some unification. But just why you'd have local codes concerning the number of sockets in the same country escapes me. Perhaps you'd explain? The same reasons different European countries have different standards. Some areas have plenty of natural gaas, and only require a 100 to 150 A service for new construction, or upgrades. Other areas require 200 A service. The number, and location of outlets can vary, becasue some stic to the NEC, while others insist on extras, like on both sides of a narrow hallway, even though it is less than 10 feet. Some materails are banned in some areas, becasue of high humdity, or dsalt air. Others require conduit, becasue only IBEW union workers are allowed to do ANY electrical or electronics cabling. The first homes to get electricity usually had one outlet per room, and one ceiling ;light with a pull chain. Two 10 A fuses, and a 15A main on the 90-110 service. Some areas were DC, some were 25 Hz and others were 60 Hz. Farms used lead acid batteries and a 'Wincharger' to charge them. The house was wired for 32 volt, but used standard 110 hardware so that when the grid became available all they had to do was replace the bulbs and appliances. Now, some areas require new service or upgrades to be 200A 240V for the main breaker. -- You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense. |
#415
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Audio Precision System One Dual Domani Measuirement Systems
Don Pearce wrote: On Fri, 3 Feb 2012 08:38:19 -0500, "Arny Krueger" wrote: "David Looser" wrote in message ... "Arny Krueger" wrote Seems like a lot of wiring and separate little boxes to handle not so many circuits. I presume that it provides service for more than just one little hotel room. Yes, that's the main incoming supply to the building. The grey unit at the bottom left is the supply company's terminating unit that inludes their fuses. Above that is the meter, to the right of it is a neutral block, and beyond that an isolator (looks like a three-phase + neutral one). I'm not sure what the unit above the isolator is, but at the top of the wardrobe are three consumer units, each, apparently, fed from a different phase. The one on the right seems to feed just one, high-current, load. In the US even fairly large homes and retail stores generally have just two boxes - a meter box and a distribution panel box. 120 volt and 240 volt circuits are distributed from there. There are exceptions. For historical reasons, my ca. 1933 home has 2 subpanels and should have 3. It also has a safety switch in a separate box outside by the meter because the run to the main distribution panel in the basement is so long. This place is really gerrymandered as its needs increased dramatically over the years. Intermediate-size buildings such as a large factory, apartment building or superstore have a central meter and a few large breakers in just two boxes, and additional subpanels as needed. Really large buildings distribute HV (e.g. 4,800 volts) inside the building and have transformer substations in various locations. The metering is generally still centralized. If there are multiple paying accounts within a building there will be multiple meters and each has its own distribution infrastructure. Do the 120V and 240V system share the same high voltage distribution lines? I mean is the transformation done per house, per street or per district? It just strikes me that with 240V available the requirement for 120V should be dwindling. It really is too low for even distribution within a house. I have experienced lights dimming significantly when appliances are turned on in many American homes. Then it needed to be inspected and repaired. That is a common symptom of an open neutral, or one that is failing. -- You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense. |
#416
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Audio Precision System One Dual Domani Measuirement Systems
Andy Champ wrote: On 01/02/2012 14:10, JW wrote: On Wed, 1 Feb 2012 12:40:58 +0000 Mike wrote in Message : In whill.co.uk, Dave writes Just counted up how many double 13A sockets we've just put into the refurbished *half* of this place: 38. That makes for one helluva fuse board if each was a radial... Seen American consumer units? Huge, ugly things, bit like the Americans themselves :-) http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ricalPanel.jpg Yeah, but we're smart enough to not put them in our living room. Seen in a hotel room in Scotland: http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l1...erWardrobe.jpg That would fail inspection in the US, because the wiring trough at the top is missing its cover. -- You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense. |
#417
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Audio Precision System One Dual Domani Measuirement Systems
Mike Tomlinson wrote: In article , Dave Plowman (News) writes Romex is roughly what we call Twin and Earth in the UK? Same thing. Tends to have white outer jacket but otherwise identical. Or yellow. or Orange. Or Red. Or Green. Or Gray. It depends on the OEM, some use it to identify their product. I've seen all thouse colors in use. -- You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense. |
#419
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Audio Precision System One Dual Domani Measuirement Systems
Arny Krueger wrote: 250 feet of 10/3 romex runs about $200. I wonder why people aren't importing wire from the UK - your prices are pretty cheap! It's not UL approved, so insurance companies wouldn't insure buildings where it was used. If a building inspector is honest, it will fail inspection and on CoO will be issued. If that happens, the builder can't transfer ownership, and has to do repairs with approve materials, or pay off the construction loans and eat the loss. -- You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense. |
#420
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Audio Precision System One Dual Domani Measuirement Systems
Arny Krueger wrote: "Mortimer" wrote in message ... Ah, is the limit on a 110V circuit only 15A? True for common circuits wired with 14 gauge wire. 20 gauge wiring is protected for 20 amps. #12 AWG, not 20 gauge! -- You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense. |
#421
Posted to sci.electronics.repair,uk.rec.audio,uk.tech.broadcast
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Audio Precision System One Dual Domani Measuirement Systems
Don Pearce wrote: On Fri, 3 Feb 2012 16:24:45 -0000, "Mortimer" wrote: Also it doesn't allow high-power devices such as kettles to be driven from 120V, hence the tendency for water in the US to be boiled in a pan on a cooker hob which much be horrendously slow (I know from when I've had to do it on a gas or electric hob when the kettle was broken). I have one horrible memory of once being at a girlfriend's house in New York (no, that wasn't the horrible bit). She was drying her hair. The drier plug was hanging half out as they always do (bugger all retention or location in a US mains plug) and it was almost glowing red hot from the current. So what? It was defective. A good plug in a good outlet doesn't get hot. Since it requires calling in union workers to do repairs in 'The City' people put up with crap that could kill them. -- You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense. |
#422
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Audio Precision System One Dual Domani Measuirement Systems
Mortimer wrote: "Don Pearce" wrote in message ... On Fri, 3 Feb 2012 08:38:19 -0500, "Arny Krueger" wrote: "David Looser" wrote in message ... "Arny Krueger" wrote Seems like a lot of wiring and separate little boxes to handle not so many circuits. I presume that it provides service for more than just one little hotel room. Yes, that's the main incoming supply to the building. The grey unit at the bottom left is the supply company's terminating unit that inludes their fuses. Above that is the meter, to the right of it is a neutral block, and beyond that an isolator (looks like a three-phase + neutral one). I'm not sure what the unit above the isolator is, but at the top of the wardrobe are three consumer units, each, apparently, fed from a different phase. The one on the right seems to feed just one, high-current, load. In the US even fairly large homes and retail stores generally have just two boxes - a meter box and a distribution panel box. 120 volt and 240 volt circuits are distributed from there. There are exceptions. For historical reasons, my ca. 1933 home has 2 subpanels and should have 3. It also has a safety switch in a separate box outside by the meter because the run to the main distribution panel in the basement is so long. This place is really gerrymandered as its needs increased dramatically over the years. Intermediate-size buildings such as a large factory, apartment building or superstore have a central meter and a few large breakers in just two boxes, and additional subpanels as needed. Really large buildings distribute HV (e.g. 4,800 volts) inside the building and have transformer substations in various locations. The metering is generally still centralized. If there are multiple paying accounts within a building there will be multiple meters and each has its own distribution infrastructure. Do the 120V and 240V system share the same high voltage distribution lines? I mean is the transformation done per house, per street or per district? It just strikes me that with 240V available the requirement for 120V should be dwindling. It really is too low for even distribution within a house. I have experienced lights dimming significantly when appliances are turned on in many American homes. Also it doesn't allow high-power devices such as kettles to be driven from 120V, hence the tendency for water in the US to be boiled in a pan on a cooker hob which much be horrendously slow (I know from when I've had to do it on a gas or electric hob when the kettle was broken). Gee. We have electric or gas water heaters in the US. They've been around since gas or electricity was available. Solar water heaters were popular, before gas, but they disappeared into the 'European Follies, I & II' as raw material for the War Material Board. -- You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense. |
#423
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Audio Precision System One Dual Domani Measuirement Systems
Dave Liquorice wrote: On Fri, 3 Feb 2012 13:22:52 -0500, Arny Krueger wrote: I have a 1500 watt electric pot that heats 1.7 L of water in about 3 minutes. Less water, down to about a liter (what it takes to cover the coils) heats significantly quicker. Cover the coils? How last centaury. B-) Most electric kettles this side of the pond have a flat plate element in the bottom, minimum quantity about half a mug full. We also have "rapid boil" kettles rated at just under 3kW. Similar 1.7l (3.5 US liquid pints, 3 UK pints) capacity though. Just plugs into the ring, along with the microwave, toaster(*), washing machine, tumble dryer etc, none of those have circuits of their own. B-) How ever it is becoming more common to have the kitchen (and thus all those appliances) on it's own ring, then two others for "up stairs" and "down stairs". (*) As in bread, not sure what a "toaster oven" is. A small, counter top electric oven that runs on a 20A 120V circuit. They are quite common to cook small meals, or for additional capacity for a large meal where you need multiple temperatures. -- You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense. |
#424
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Audio Precision System One Dual Domani Measuirement Systems
Mike Tomlinson wrote: In article , Arny Krueger writes Seems like a lot of wiring and separate little boxes to handle not so many circuits. I presume that it provides service for more than just one little hotel room. Yes, it'll feed the entire building. Note the wiring includes the supplier's meter, unlike those ugly external meters used in North America. The meter is read remotely. As are most electronic meters in the US. They have been replacing millions of the mechanical meters, every year, for years. As another poster said, this is a 3-phase supply. Notice how thin the main incomer is, yet that'll be supplying 100A per phase. -- (\__/) (='.'=) (")_(") -- You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense. |
#425
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Audio Precision System One Dual Domani Measuirement Systems
Arny Krueger wrote: "Don Pearce" wrote in message ... On Fri, 3 Feb 2012 09:40:03 -0500, "Arny Krueger" wrote: Type "1600 prestwick grosse" into Google Maps and you can see my house from several angles. Step a bit east of the default location for the best possible view looking about north. So many cables on those poles. What on earth are they all? That really isn't pretty. Agreed. On the pole: Two cable system local feeds plus the main lines for about a dozen streets. Yup, two completely independent digital TVcable/internet/phone systems - isn't competition lovely? Analog Telephone lines for my house plus the 8 or so businesses Large analog telephone cable for a goodly number of streets. Electric 120/240 for my house plus the businesses. The top 3 wires are 4800 volts 3 phase to keep the power transformers in our back yards happy. The pole also holds the battery box for one of the 2 cable systems. The other one is in my back yard. Since the picture was taken, the battery box was about doubled in size and the wiring was cleaned up. It sounds like they replaced the 60V 30A CVT with a UPS. We were doing that in the early '80s, in Cincinnati. -- You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense. |
#426
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Audio Precision System One Dual Domani Measuirement Systems
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote: In article , Mike Tomlinson wrote: In article , Arny Krueger writes You might be surprised to hear that in the Detroit metro area Aldi (under the eponymous and Trade Joe brands) is probably the number 2 retailer of groceries. Not surprised, no. Aldi and their very similar competitor Lidl have many stores in the UK. I think some of the food is of better quality and cheaper than the established British supermarket chains (Tesco, Sainsburys, Asda, Morrisons). Meat particularly is good. I use Lidl for some things. Not fresh vegetables, though. Or meat. Dairy products are good value as are most other non fresh things. Their tools in general are excellent - far better than budget stuff elsewhere. But are only ever on special offer so you need to look out for them. Don't have an Aldi anywhere close. There are atleast two around here. They like to build near Wal-Marts. -- You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense. |
#427
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Audio Precision System One Dual Domani Measuirement Systems
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote: In article , Arny Krueger wrote: We did not have the "cleansing" effects of a world war fought in our country to push us along. Also, electrical distribution had a very rapid and early introduction so we have a ton of very old work that is still in use. It's not binding on the rest of the world but the town I lived in in Germany looked like it had been reworked from top to bottom *after* WW2. We had 416 3 phase in our apartment for heating water. AFAIK the nearest three phase distribution point here to my house here in Grosse Pointe is about a half mile away. Our church here in town has a number of 3 phase motors and it has its own 3 phase line and separate pole transformer for just that phase. I've never quite understood why so many US towns seem to have overhead wiring for mains. It's very unsightly. Some towns are built on so much rock that you need explosives to dig a trench. You had to get a blasting permit to set a pole in Cincinnati. All those poles were tagged. RIP. (Replace In Place.) -- You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense. |
#428
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Audio Precision System One Dual Domani Measuirement Systems
Don Pearce wrote: On Fri, 3 Feb 2012 14:00:16 -0500, "Arny Krueger" wrote: "Don Pearce" wrote in message ... On Fri, 3 Feb 2012 13:50:55 -0500, "Arny Krueger" wrote: "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message ... In article , Arny Krueger wrote: http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l1...erWardrobe.jpg Seems like a lot of wiring and separate little boxes to handle not so many circuits. I presume that it provides service for more than just one little hotel room. Here's something more representative:- http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q...akkies/002.jpg If everything is on a ring, why are there an odd number of breakers? The ring returns to the same breaker. There isn't a separate one for each end of the ring. The breakers are 4 pole? No, you poke both wires into the same terminal hole. Not legal in the US but you do find were some Bozo does it, after the inspection. -- You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense. |
#429
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Audio Precision System One Dual Domani Measuirement Systems
On Fri, 03 Feb 2012 20:42:56 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote: No, you poke both wires into the same terminal hole. Not legal in the US but you do find were some Bozo does it, after the inspection. Er - how do you do that in the US? You don't have ring mains, so you don't have two wires. d |
#430
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Audio Precision System One Dual Domani Measuirement Systems
In message , Arny Krueger
writes "Don Pearce" wrote in message ... On Fri, 03 Feb 2012 15:21:16 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote: In article , Arny Krueger wrote: Several hundred dollars worth of 12 gauge Romex and accessories were involved. Simple things like putting the garbage disposal, microwave, and toaster oven each on their own circuits make a big difference. Romex is roughly what we call Twin and Earth in the UK? What you're saying is radial circuits are commonly overloaded in some way? All of those (and more) would work just fine on the one UK circuit. Current price for 2.5mm TW&E in the UK (for final ring circuits) is about 45 gbp per 100 mtrs before tax. Yes, 12 gauge Romex is just about equivalent to our 2.5mm twin and earth in wire gauge. The problem of course, is that in the US it is required to handle twice the current that we use for the same load. Does not seem to be true. My wire tables say 2.5 mm diameter copper is more like 10 gauge. It's 2.5 square mm in area I believe, not the diameter of the core. -- Chris Morriss |
#431
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Audio Precision System One Dual Domani Measuirement Systems
In article ,
Michael A. Terrell wrote: I've never quite understood why so many US towns seem to have overhead wiring for mains. It's very unsightly. Some towns are built on so much rock that you need explosives to dig a trench. You had to get a blasting permit to set a pole in Cincinnati. All those poles were tagged. RIP. (Replace In Place.) That is the only reason? -- *If PROGRESS is for advancement, what does that make CONGRESS mean? Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#432
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Audio Precision System One Dual Domani Measuirement Systems
In article ,
Michael A. Terrell wrote: No, you poke both wires into the same terminal hole. Not legal in the US but you do find were some Bozo does it, after the inspection. How are sockets connected on a radial circuit? Separate terminals for in and out? -- *Why do overlook and oversee mean opposite things? * Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#433
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Audio Precision System One Dual Domani Measuirement Systems
In article ,
Chris Morriss wrote: Does not seem to be true. My wire tables say 2.5 mm diameter copper is more like 10 gauge. It's 2.5 square mm in area I believe, not the diameter of the core. My fault for not stating it was the cross sectional area. But then our US cousins quote gauge as if there was only the one. ;-) 2.5mm˛ equates to 13 AWG, IIRC. That is the cable normally used for UK rings, protected by a 32 amp MCB Lighting radials are normally 1mm˛ which would be 17 AWG, protected by a 6 amp MCB. -- *The fact that no one understands you doesn't mean you're an artist Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#434
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Audio Precision System One Dual Domani Measuirement Systems
On Sat, 04 Feb 2012 10:13:31 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote: In article , Chris Morriss wrote: Does not seem to be true. My wire tables say 2.5 mm diameter copper is more like 10 gauge. It's 2.5 square mm in area I believe, not the diameter of the core. My fault for not stating it was the cross sectional area. But then our US cousins quote gauge as if there was only the one. ;-) 2.5mm˛ equates to 13 AWG, IIRC. That is the cable normally used for UK rings, protected by a 32 amp MCB Lighting radials are normally 1mm˛ which would be 17 AWG, protected by a 6 amp MCB. 1.5mm˛ which is 15 AWG. My lighting breakers are rated 5A. d |
#435
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Audio Precision System One Dual Domani Measuirement Systems
"Don Pearce" wrote in message
... On Sat, 04 Feb 2012 10:13:31 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote: In article , Chris Morriss wrote: Does not seem to be true. My wire tables say 2.5 mm diameter copper is more like 10 gauge. It's 2.5 square mm in area I believe, not the diameter of the core. My fault for not stating it was the cross sectional area. But then our US cousins quote gauge as if there was only the one. ;-) 2.5mm˛ equates to 13 AWG, IIRC. That is the cable normally used for UK rings, protected by a 32 amp MCB Lighting radials are normally 1mm˛ which would be 17 AWG, protected by a 6 amp MCB. 1.5mm˛ which is 15 AWG. My lighting breakers are rated 5A. 1.0sqmm is perfectly acceptable for lighting circuits, BS7671 rates it at between 8A and 16A depending on the installation method. MCBs for domestic use have been "harmonised" to 6, 16, 20, 32, 40 or 63A. David. |
#436
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Audio Precision System One Dual Domani Measuirement Systems
On 04/02/2012 01:11, Michael A. Terrell wrote:
Andy Champ wrote: On 01/02/2012 14:10, JW wrote: On Wed, 1 Feb 2012 12:40:58 +0000 Mike wrote in Message : In whill.co.uk, Dave writes Just counted up how many double 13A sockets we've just put into the refurbished *half* of this place: 38. That makes for one helluva fuse board if each was a radial... Seen American consumer units? Huge, ugly things, bit like the Americans themselves :-) http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ricalPanel.jpg Yeah, but we're smart enough to not put them in our living room. Seen in a hotel room in Scotland: http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l1...erWardrobe.jpg That would fail inspection in the US, because the wiring trough at the top is missing its cover. It all looks a bit new, maybe the installation isn't finished yet? R |
#437
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Audio Precision System One Dual Domani Measuirement Systems
In article ,
Don Pearce wrote: Lighting radials are normally 1mm˛ which would be 17 AWG, protected by a 6 amp MCB. 1.5mm˛ which is 15 AWG. My lighting breakers are rated 5A. Unless you have unusually long cable runs or other special factors, it's oversized. -- *Bigamy is having one wife too many - monogamy is the same Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#438
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Audio Precision System One Dual Domani Measuirement Systems
On Sat, 04 Feb 2012 11:05:01 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote: In article , Don Pearce wrote: Lighting radials are normally 1mm˛ which would be 17 AWG, protected by a 6 amp MCB. 1.5mm˛ which is 15 AWG. My lighting breakers are rated 5A. Unless you have unusually long cable runs or other special factors, it's oversized. When I did my rewire I was offered both 1.5mm and 1mm at pretty much the same price - certainly within about five quid for 100 metres. That made it a no-brainer. d |
#439
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Audio Precision System One Dual Domani Measuirement Systems
Don Pearce wrote: On Fri, 03 Feb 2012 20:42:56 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell" wrote: No, you poke both wires into the same terminal hole. Not legal in the US but you do find were some Bozo does it, after the inspection. Er - how do you do that in the US? You don't have ring mains, so you don't have two wires. Do you ever think, before posting? Someone adds another circuit, and is too cheap to buy another breaker. Or the box is full, and they won't upgrade. -- You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense. |
#440
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Audio Precision System One Dual Domani Measuirement Systems
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote: In article , Michael A. Terrell wrote: I've never quite understood why so many US towns seem to have overhead wiring for mains. It's very unsightly. Some towns are built on so much rock that you need explosives to dig a trench. You had to get a blasting permit to set a pole in Cincinnati. All those poles were tagged. RIP. (Replace In Place.) That is the only reason? Isn't it enough in those places? New subdivisions are bulldozed, and if necessary, they use explosives to break up big rocks so they can be removed. You can't do that in existing neighborhoods without blowing out windows and sometimes closing busy roads for days. A lot of the above ground service areas were wired after the homes were built, and early poles were set with a pickax or jackhammer to chip away the rocks. The actual city of Cincinnati is built on 'seven hills', of mostly glacier droppings from a long gone ice age. A lot of the suburbs are of similar conditions. The RIP process is simple: You cut the old pole near the ground and drag it off the base. You winch it out of the hole, and set the new pole in the existing hole. Then transfer the wires to the new pole. This can be done without closing most roads. Have you ever worked in utilities or even CATV construction? It doesn't look that way from here. If you don't like the way overhead cables look, just stop staring at the sky. -- You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense. |
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