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Electronics Repair (sci.electronics.repair) Discussion of repairing electronic equipment. Topics include requests for assistance, where to obtain servicing information and parts, techniques for diagnosis and repair, and annecdotes about success, failures and problems. |
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#1
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A basic question about electric heaters
My neighbor was telling me that his oil filled radiator type space
heater is more efficient than the kind with a fan and heating coils. I told him that there is no difference, that all the electricity consumed by the heater is converted to heat in the room. Even the sound made by the fan vibrates the air which heats it up a little. So if both were operated in a perfectly insulated room and consumed the same amount of electricity the rooms would heat up the same amount. Now I'm wondering about real world situations. Some frequencies of light pass through walls, some through windows, some both, and some neither. So I suppose the best heater is one that glows in a frequency range that is completely absorbed by objects (including people) in the room and reflected by the walls and windows. Are my asumptions correct? I hope so. Otherwise I'll need to call my neighbor so he can serve me a little crow. Eric |
#2
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A basic question about electric heaters
On Nov 21, 7:55*am, wrote:
My neighbor was telling me that his oil filled radiator type space heater is more efficient than the kind with a fan and heating coils. I told him that there is no difference, that all the electricity consumed by the heater is converted to heat in the room. Even the sound made by the fan vibrates the air which heats it up a little. So if both were operated in a perfectly insulated room and consumed the same amount of electricity the rooms would heat up the same amount. Now I'm wondering about real world situations. Some frequencies of light pass through walls, some through windows, some both, and some neither. So I suppose the best heater is one that glows in a frequency range that is completely absorbed by objects (including people) in the room and reflected by the walls and windows. Are my asumptions correct? I hope so. Otherwise I'll need to call my neighbor so he can serve me a little crow. Eric There are two kinds of electric space heaters, convection and radiant. Convection heaters (attempt to) heat the entire room, radiant heaters heat objects, including you. The oil filled radiator is a convection heater, as are the heating coil plus fan heaters. Comparing convection heaters to convection heaters, there is no difference in efficiency, 100% of the electrical energy does turn into heat. The Department of Energy prefers the oil filled units because their thermal mass makes them a more constant heat source. Their heating elements cycle less, for what it's worth. But, radiant heaters should have more apparent efficiency in that they require less energy to heat just you instead of the entire room plus you in it. http://www.energysavers.gov/your_hom.../mytopic=12600 |
#3
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A basic question about electric heaters
On Mon, 21 Nov 2011 10:10:12 -0800 (PST), spamtrap1888
wrote: On Nov 21, 7:55*am, wrote: My neighbor was telling me that his oil filled radiator type space heater is more efficient than the kind with a fan and heating coils. I told him that there is no difference, that all the electricity consumed by the heater is converted to heat in the room. Even the sound made by the fan vibrates the air which heats it up a little. So if both were operated in a perfectly insulated room and consumed the same amount of electricity the rooms would heat up the same amount. Now I'm wondering about real world situations. Some frequencies of light pass through walls, some through windows, some both, and some neither. So I suppose the best heater is one that glows in a frequency range that is completely absorbed by objects (including people) in the room and reflected by the walls and windows. Are my asumptions correct? I hope so. Otherwise I'll need to call my neighbor so he can serve me a little crow. Eric There are two kinds of electric space heaters, convection and radiant. Convection heaters (attempt to) heat the entire room, radiant heaters heat objects, including you. The oil filled radiator is a convection heater, as are the heating coil plus fan heaters. Comparing convection heaters to convection heaters, there is no difference in efficiency, 100% of the electrical energy does turn into heat. The Department of Energy prefers the oil filled units because their thermal mass makes them a more constant heat source. Their heating elements cycle less, for what it's worth. But, radiant heaters should have more apparent efficiency in that they require less energy to heat just you instead of the entire room plus you in it. http://www.energysavers.gov/your_hom.../mytopic=12600 Correct, if you ignore one minor detail. Since a radiant heater warms you, rather than the air, you will always feel colder on the side away from the heater. PlainBill |
#4
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A basic question about electric heaters
wrote:
My neighbor was telling me that his oil filled radiator type space heater is more efficient than the kind with a fan and heating coils. I told him that there is no difference, that all the electricity consumed by the heater is converted to heat in the room. Even the sound made by the fan vibrates the air which heats it up a little. So if both were operated in a perfectly insulated room and consumed the same amount of electricity the rooms would heat up the same amount. Now I'm wondering about real world situations. Some frequencies of light pass through walls, some through windows, some both, and some neither. So I suppose the best heater is one that glows in a frequency range that is completely absorbed by objects (including people) in the room and reflected by the walls and windows. Are my asumptions correct? I hope so. Otherwise I'll need to call my neighbor so he can serve me a little crow. Eric True. The only thing, radiant might be considered more efficient because inducing drafts might make the air feel colder. Greg |
#5
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A basic question about electric heaters
wrote:
On Mon, 21 Nov 2011 10:10:12 -0800 (PST), spamtrap1888 wrote: On Nov 21, 7:55 am, wrote: My neighbor was telling me that his oil filled radiator type space heater is more efficient than the kind with a fan and heating coils. I told him that there is no difference, that all the electricity consumed by the heater is converted to heat in the room. Even the sound made by the fan vibrates the air which heats it up a little. So if both were operated in a perfectly insulated room and consumed the same amount of electricity the rooms would heat up the same amount. Now I'm wondering about real world situations. Some frequencies of light pass through walls, some through windows, some both, and some neither. So I suppose the best heater is one that glows in a frequency range that is completely absorbed by objects (including people) in the room and reflected by the walls and windows. Are my asumptions correct? I hope so. Otherwise I'll need to call my neighbor so he can serve me a little crow. Eric There are two kinds of electric space heaters, convection and radiant. Convection heaters (attempt to) heat the entire room, radiant heaters heat objects, including you. The oil filled radiator is a convection heater, as are the heating coil plus fan heaters. Comparing convection heaters to convection heaters, there is no difference in efficiency, 100% of the electrical energy does turn into heat. The Department of Energy prefers the oil filled units because their thermal mass makes them a more constant heat source. Their heating elements cycle less, for what it's worth. But, radiant heaters should have more apparent efficiency in that they require less energy to heat just you instead of the entire room plus you in it. http://www.energysavers.gov/your_hom.../mytopic=12600 Correct, if you ignore one minor detail. Since a radiant heater warms you, rather than the air, you will always feel colder on the side away from the heater. PlainBill I don't know what the efficiency of radiant conversion is, but radiant heaters give out plenty of heated air also. Some also have fans. Greg |
#6
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A basic question about electric heaters
On Nov 21, 10:10*am, spamtrap1888 wrote:
On Nov 21, 7:55*am, wrote: My neighbor was telling me that his oil filled radiator type space heater is more efficient than the kind with a fan and heating coils. I told him that there is no difference, that all the electricity consumed by the heater is converted to heat in the room. Even the sound made by the fan vibrates the air which heats it up a little. So if both were operated in a perfectly insulated room and consumed the same amount of electricity the rooms would heat up the same amount. Now I'm wondering about real world situations. Some frequencies of light pass through walls, some through windows, some both, and some neither. So I suppose the best heater is one that glows in a frequency range that is completely absorbed by objects (including people) in the room and reflected by the walls and windows. Are my asumptions correct? I hope so. Otherwise I'll need to call my neighbor so he can serve me a little crow. Eric There are two kinds of electric space heaters, convection and radiant. Convection heaters (attempt to) heat the entire room, radiant heaters heat objects, including you. The oil filled radiator is a convection heater, as are the heating coil plus fan heaters. Comparing convection heaters to convection heaters, there is no difference in efficiency, 100% of the electrical energy does turn into heat. The Department of Energy prefers the oil filled units because their thermal mass makes them a more constant heat source. Their heating elements cycle less, for what it's worth. But, radiant heaters should have more apparent efficiency in that they require less energy to heat just you instead of the entire room plus you in it. http://www.energysavers.gov/your_hom...ling/index.cfm... That said, I have not yet seen an oil filled heater more than a few years old that did not leak to some degree. Not sure what might happen if the oil level drops to the point that the heater element starts boiling it. Neil S. |
#7
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A basic question about electric heaters
nesesu wrote: That said, I have not yet seen an oil filled heater more than a few years old that did not leak to some degree. Not sure what might happen if the oil level drops to the point that the heater element starts boiling it. I've had mine for 15 years, and I bought it used. Soon, it'll be time to drag it out for another winter. -- You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense. |
#9
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A basic question about electric heaters
On Wed, 23 Nov 2011 17:31:36 -0800, "Bob F"
wrote: wrote: On Mon, 21 Nov 2011 10:10:12 -0800 (PST), spamtrap1888 wrote: On Nov 21, 7:55 am, wrote: My neighbor was telling me that his oil filled radiator type space heater is more efficient than the kind with a fan and heating coils. I told him that there is no difference, that all the electricity consumed by the heater is converted to heat in the room. Even the sound made by the fan vibrates the air which heats it up a little. So if both were operated in a perfectly insulated room and consumed the same amount of electricity the rooms would heat up the same amount. Now I'm wondering about real world situations. Some frequencies of light pass through walls, some through windows, some both, and some neither. So I suppose the best heater is one that glows in a frequency range that is completely absorbed by objects (including people) in the room and reflected by the walls and windows. Are my asumptions correct? I hope so. Otherwise I'll need to call my neighbor so he can serve me a little crow. Eric There are two kinds of electric space heaters, convection and radiant. Convection heaters (attempt to) heat the entire room, radiant heaters heat objects, including you. The oil filled radiator is a convection heater, as are the heating coil plus fan heaters. Comparing convection heaters to convection heaters, there is no difference in efficiency, 100% of the electrical energy does turn into heat. The Department of Energy prefers the oil filled units because their thermal mass makes them a more constant heat source. Their heating elements cycle less, for what it's worth. But, radiant heaters should have more apparent efficiency in that they require less energy to heat just you instead of the entire room plus you in it. http://www.energysavers.gov/your_hom.../mytopic=12600 Correct, if you ignore one minor detail. Since a radiant heater warms you, rather than the air, you will always feel colder on the side away from the heater. And, the radiant heat will go right through any uncovered windows in its radiation path. Not necessarily. Glass is opaque in the infrared range. However, they WILL absorb the energy and if single pane will release half the heat generated outdoors. PlainBill |
#10
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A basic question about electric heaters
nesesu wrote:
On Nov 21, 10:10?am, spamtrap1888 wrote: On Nov 21, 7:55?am, wrote: My neighbor was telling me that his oil filled radiator type space heater is more efficient than the kind with a fan and heating coils. I told him that there is no difference, that all the electricity consumed by the heater is converted to heat in the room. Even the sound made by the fan vibrates the air which heats it up a little. So if both were operated in a perfectly insulated room and consumed the same amount of electricity the rooms would heat up the same amount. Now I'm wondering about real world situations. Some frequencies of light pass through walls, some through windows, some both, and some neither. So I suppose the best heater is one that glows in a frequency range that is completely absorbed by objects (including people) in the room and reflected by the walls and windows. Are my asumptions correct? I hope so. Otherwise I'll need to call my neighbor so he can serve me a little crow. Eric There are two kinds of electric space heaters, convection and radiant. Convection heaters (attempt to) heat the entire room, radiant heaters heat objects, including you. The oil filled radiator is a convection heater, as are the heating coil plus fan heaters. Comparing convection heaters to convection heaters, there is no difference in efficiency, 100% of the electrical energy does turn into heat. The Department of Energy prefers the oil filled units because their thermal mass makes them a more constant heat source. Their heating elements cycle less, for what it's worth. But, radiant heaters should have more apparent efficiency in that they require less energy to heat just you instead of the entire room plus you in it. http://www.energysavers.gov/your_hom...ling/index.cfm... That said, I have not yet seen an oil filled heater more than a few years old that did not leak to some degree. Not sure what might happen if the oil level drops to the point that the heater element starts boiling it. Neil S. Are those things full of used chinese motor oil or something else you don't want to touch or have catch on fire? |
#11
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A basic question about electric heaters
On Mon, 28 Nov 2011 22:44:28 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
wrote: nesesu wrote: On Nov 21, 10:10?am, spamtrap1888 wrote: On Nov 21, 7:55?am, wrote: My neighbor was telling me that his oil filled radiator type space heater is more efficient than the kind with a fan and heating coils. I told him that there is no difference, that all the electricity consumed by the heater is converted to heat in the room. Even the sound made by the fan vibrates the air which heats it up a little. So if both were operated in a perfectly insulated room and consumed the same amount of electricity the rooms would heat up the same amount. Now I'm wondering about real world situations. Some frequencies of light pass through walls, some through windows, some both, and some neither. So I suppose the best heater is one that glows in a frequency range that is completely absorbed by objects (including people) in the room and reflected by the walls and windows. Are my asumptions correct? I hope so. Otherwise I'll need to call my neighbor so he can serve me a little crow. Eric There are two kinds of electric space heaters, convection and radiant. Convection heaters (attempt to) heat the entire room, radiant heaters heat objects, including you. The oil filled radiator is a convection heater, as are the heating coil plus fan heaters. Comparing convection heaters to convection heaters, there is no difference in efficiency, 100% of the electrical energy does turn into heat. The Department of Energy prefers the oil filled units because their thermal mass makes them a more constant heat source. Their heating elements cycle less, for what it's worth. But, radiant heaters should have more apparent efficiency in that they require less energy to heat just you instead of the entire room plus you in it. http://www.energysavers.gov/your_hom...ling/index.cfm... That said, I have not yet seen an oil filled heater more than a few years old that did not leak to some degree. Not sure what might happen if the oil level drops to the point that the heater element starts boiling it. Neil S. Are those things full of used chinese motor oil or something else you don't want to touch or have catch on fire? Where do you think they're putting all that pcb tainted oil? |
#12
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A basic question about electric heaters
wrote:
On Mon, 28 Nov 2011 22:44:28 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader wrote: nesesu wrote: On Nov 21, 10:10?am, spamtrap1888 wrote: On Nov 21, 7:55?am, wrote: My neighbor was telling me that his oil filled radiator type space heater is more efficient than the kind with a fan and heating coils. I told him that there is no difference, that all the electricity consumed by the heater is converted to heat in the room. Even the sound made by the fan vibrates the air which heats it up a little. So if both were operated in a perfectly insulated room and consumed the same amount of electricity the rooms would heat up the same amount. Now I'm wondering about real world situations. Some frequencies of light pass through walls, some through windows, some both, and some neither. So I suppose the best heater is one that glows in a frequency range that is completely absorbed by objects (including people) in the room and reflected by the walls and windows. Are my asumptions correct? I hope so. Otherwise I'll need to call my neighbor so he can serve me a little crow. Eric There are two kinds of electric space heaters, convection and radiant. Convection heaters (attempt to) heat the entire room, radiant heaters heat objects, including you. The oil filled radiator is a convection heater, as are the heating coil plus fan heaters. Comparing convection heaters to convection heaters, there is no difference in efficiency, 100% of the electrical energy does turn into heat. The Department of Energy prefers the oil filled units because their thermal mass makes them a more constant heat source. Their heating elements cycle less, for what it's worth. But, radiant heaters should have more apparent efficiency in that they require less energy to heat just you instead of the entire room plus you in it. http://www.energysavers.gov/your_hom...ling/index.cfm... That said, I have not yet seen an oil filled heater more than a few years old that did not leak to some degree. Not sure what might happen if the oil level drops to the point that the heater element starts boiling it. Neil S. Are those things full of used chinese motor oil or something else you don't want to touch or have catch on fire? Where do you think they're putting all that pcb tainted oil? Ha, I figured they used all that stuff up in foods and to polish rice by now. |
#13
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A basic question about electric heaters
On Tue, 29 Nov 2011 05:18:44 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
wrote: wrote: On Mon, 28 Nov 2011 22:44:28 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader wrote: nesesu wrote: On Nov 21, 10:10?am, spamtrap1888 wrote: On Nov 21, 7:55?am, wrote: My neighbor was telling me that his oil filled radiator type space heater is more efficient than the kind with a fan and heating coils. I told him that there is no difference, that all the electricity consumed by the heater is converted to heat in the room. Even the sound made by the fan vibrates the air which heats it up a little. So if both were operated in a perfectly insulated room and consumed the same amount of electricity the rooms would heat up the same amount. Now I'm wondering about real world situations. Some frequencies of light pass through walls, some through windows, some both, and some neither. So I suppose the best heater is one that glows in a frequency range that is completely absorbed by objects (including people) in the room and reflected by the walls and windows. Are my asumptions correct? I hope so. Otherwise I'll need to call my neighbor so he can serve me a little crow. Eric There are two kinds of electric space heaters, convection and radiant. Convection heaters (attempt to) heat the entire room, radiant heaters heat objects, including you. The oil filled radiator is a convection heater, as are the heating coil plus fan heaters. Comparing convection heaters to convection heaters, there is no difference in efficiency, 100% of the electrical energy does turn into heat. The Department of Energy prefers the oil filled units because their thermal mass makes them a more constant heat source. Their heating elements cycle less, for what it's worth. But, radiant heaters should have more apparent efficiency in that they require less energy to heat just you instead of the entire room plus you in it. http://www.energysavers.gov/your_hom...ling/index.cfm... That said, I have not yet seen an oil filled heater more than a few years old that did not leak to some degree. Not sure what might happen if the oil level drops to the point that the heater element starts boiling it. Neil S. Are those things full of used chinese motor oil or something else you don't want to touch or have catch on fire? Where do you think they're putting all that pcb tainted oil? Ha, I figured they used all that stuff up in foods and to polish rice by now. Duzzat mean I should avoid brown rice? |
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