On 11/13/2011 9:21 AM, Ignoramus22978 wrote:
Here's a picture.

http://boss-proxy.chudov.com/tmp/tmp-0432.jpg.html

That amount of surface rust and corrosion INSIDE a cover
indicates it's been wet, or in a wet location.

That's a disc brake and should dis-engage when the hoist
is in operation.

Do you have the wiring diagram for this hoist?

I know that label reads, "Caution dual voltage" as an
indication it "might be wired for a different voltage than
what you're using.

Despite all the random guessing, I'm assuming that is a
very simple straight forward coil that pulls the release
on the disc brake.

If that coil is set up for 480 volts and you're putting 240
across it, it IS going to buzz and chatter. It will do that
without any missing diodes, open coils, hidden switches or
two sets pull & hold windings.

If that coil is set up for "dual voltage" it should have
more that two wires connecting to it. Or there should be a
control transformer somewhere else in the housing to supply
the correct voltage to a single voltage coil. Or a dropping
resistor (not likely) to allow a 240 coil to be used on 480.
And the instructions, as such, should have the connection
for both voltages and everything you have to reconnect listed.

Jeff

--
"Everything from Crackers to Coffins"

On Mon, 14 Nov 2011 09:59:40 -0600, Jeffrey Angus
wrote:

On 11/13/2011 9:21 AM, Ignoramus22978 wrote:
Here's a picture.

http://boss-proxy.chudov.com/tmp/tmp-0432.jpg.html

That amount of surface rust and corrosion INSIDE a cover
indicates it's been wet, or in a wet location.

That's a disc brake and should dis-engage when the hoist
is in operation.

Do you have the wiring diagram for this hoist?

I know that label reads, "Caution dual voltage" as an
indication it "might be wired for a different voltage than
what you're using.

Despite all the random guessing, I'm assuming that is a
very simple straight forward coil that pulls the release
on the disc brake.

If that coil is set up for 480 volts and you're putting 240
across it, it IS going to buzz and chatter. It will do that
without any missing diodes, open coils, hidden switches or
two sets pull & hold windings.

If that coil is set up for "dual voltage" it should have
more that two wires connecting to it. Or there should be a
control transformer somewhere else in the housing to supply
the correct voltage to a single voltage coil. Or a dropping
resistor (not likely) to allow a 240 coil to be used on 480.
And the instructions, as such, should have the connection
for both voltages and everything you have to reconnect listed.

Jeff


The several I own (CMS) have internal transformers that allow voltage
changes. to the workings.

Though he does say that he has 240 on the coils..which is troublesome

Gunner

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

Ignoramus22978 wrote:

On 2011-11-13, Gunner Asch wrote:

On Sun, 13 Nov 2011 08:00:33 -0600, Ignoramus22978
wrote:


I have a 3 phase Yale 1/2 ton hoist. It has an electric brake with a
solenoid, whose job is to pull away the brake lever when 230VAC is
supplied to it.

The problem is that it does not do it. Instead of steadily pulling
away, it constantly jerks the lever, but never far enough to the end
point where it is supposed to be pulled away. So, the brake is not
disengaged as the hoist operates. I am glad that I noticed that.

I tried pulling on the lever by hand when the solenoid was engaged. I
noticed that if I help the solenoid and pull away the lever to the
end, jerking stops completely, but if I slowly let go of the lever and
it returns to the brake position, jerking resumes.

I am thinking that perhaps this solenoid has two separate coils,
pulling and holding one, and the holding one is not working or not
engaging?

Any idea?

thanks

Check to see if its not wired up for 440/480

Most of those hoists are dual voltage and while they will run on 220 if
wired for 440..the solenoids most often will not


The hoist can be entirely rewired for 240/480. It actually WAS wired
for 480 and I had to rewire. So, you are saying that to complete this
transition to 240, I would have to replace the solenoid?


If that being the case, I then would assume that maybe the solenoid was
getting its voltage from one of the star windings on the motor?

A connection from wire 4 to wire 5 should provide ~ 230V Ac when the
motor is wired for 480 which is a standard way of doing it, how ever, I
wonder if you considered this when you did your change over?

Of course, I don't know anything about anything so don't listen to me.

Jamie

Ignoramus22978 wrote:

On 2011-11-14, Jeffrey Angus wrote:

On 11/13/2011 8:52 PM, Ignoramus22978 wrote:

The hoist can be entirely rewired for 240/480. It actually WAS wired
for 480 and I had to rewire. So, you are saying that to complete this
transition to 240, I would have to replace the solenoid?

i

Ok, let's back up a bit. WHEN was the last time the hoist worked
like it should? When it was installed and operating on 480 v?

Or was it working at some point when re-wired for 240 v and THEN
started to act up with the brake solenoid?


I bought it at auction.

I have never seen this hoist run.

At my place, I have 240v 3ph only. (well, I have a transformer that I
could wire to get 460v, but it is sitting in the corner right now).

i
Ok, so what is the original coil voltage suppose to be? 230 or 480?

You do know that many of those types of devices that allow you to
rewire uses the same coil for both voltages? Normally the coil is
spec'd out for 230V AC.. which will work in either case, it's just
where you connect the wires to.

Jamie

On Nov 14, 7:35*pm, Jamie
t wrote:
Ignoramus22978 wrote:
On 2011-11-14, Jeffrey Angus wrote:

On 11/13/2011 8:52 PM, Ignoramus22978 wrote:

The hoist can be entirely rewired for 240/480. It actually WAS wired
for 480 and I had to rewire. So, you are saying that to complete this
transition to 240, I would have to replace the solenoid?

i

Ok, let's back up a bit. WHEN was the last time the hoist worked
like it should? When it was installed and operating on 480 v?

Or was it working at some point when re-wired for 240 v and THEN
started to act up with the brake solenoid?

I bought it at auction.

I have never seen this hoist run.

At my place, I have 240v 3ph only. (well, I have a transformer that I
could wire to get 460v, but it is sitting in the corner right now).

i

Ok, so what is the original coil voltage suppose to be? 230 or 480?

* You do know that many of those types of devices that allow you to
rewire uses the same coil for both voltages? Normally the coil is
spec'd out for 230V AC.. which will work in either case, it's just
where you connect the wires to.

* Jamie- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Has the OP ever said if there are two or three or how many wires going
to the solenoid????

wrote:

On Nov 14, 7:35 pm, Jamie
t wrote:

Ignoramus22978 wrote:

On 2011-11-14, Jeffrey Angus wrote:

On 11/13/2011 8:52 PM, Ignoramus22978 wrote:

The hoist can be entirely rewired for 240/480. It actually WAS wired
for 480 and I had to rewire. So, you are saying that to complete this
transition to 240, I would have to replace the solenoid?

i

Ok, let's back up a bit. WHEN was the last time the hoist worked
like it should? When it was installed and operating on 480 v?

Or was it working at some point when re-wired for 240 v and THEN
started to act up with the brake solenoid?

I bought it at auction.

I have never seen this hoist run.

At my place, I have 240v 3ph only. (well, I have a transformer that I
could wire to get 460v, but it is sitting in the corner right now).

i

Ok, so what is the original coil voltage suppose to be? 230 or 480?

You do know that many of those types of devices that allow you to
rewire uses the same coil for both voltages? Normally the coil is
spec'd out for 230V AC.. which will work in either case, it's just
where you connect the wires to.

Jamie- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Has the OP ever said if there are two or three or how many wires going
to the solenoid????
From what I can remember, it's a simple 2 wire solenoid.. That being the
case, they should be connected to the # 1 & 2 wires of the motor relay
output side M1,M2. If it was wired for 480, then the coil is connected
to the #4 and #5 for example. That will get half the voltage when the
motor operates. Standard for AC motors with add on brake on the back..

Jamie

In sci.electronics.repair Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Jeffrey Angus wrote:

On 11/13/2011 9:54 AM, GeorgeD wrote:
That solenoid requires that the pole pieces be in contact. Then it will
hold (strongly). If it can not close completely, it will vibrate. Not
much of a puller, but a big holder.

Looks like your typical washing machine part. And yes, lots of hold
power when the pole pieces touch.

Check to make sure it can pull in fully and that the poles are not
cruded up. It looks like it only needs some cleaning and TLC.

Serious case of corrosion there. No telling how much surface crud
on the sliding parts.

There is only one coil.

Of course, but we still have to listen to Maynard's view of multi-
windings and embedded diodes.


What else do you expect from 'Skippy - V2.0'? He also thinks
Electret microphones are crystal microphones, and that you can easily
change the bandgap in LEDs to adjust the color. He's a real, no class

Not sure about the flamewar going on here, but it's actually not hard to
get a LED to change colors. Get some liquid nitrogen and try it out.