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Electronics Repair (sci.electronics.repair) Discussion of repairing electronic equipment. Topics include requests for assistance, where to obtain servicing information and parts, techniques for diagnosis and repair, and annecdotes about success, failures and problems. |
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#1
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Guitar body wiring and pickup query
Output was low.
Instead of owner tightening the controls which were all loose and rotating , he started messing about with the pickup height posistioning and bridge height. EMGHz pickups , not these ones but I'm assuming they are ok as proportionate readings http://www.emgpickups.com/content/wi...MGHZ-H1-H4.pdf Bridge one 17.4K DC and 7.9H (1KHz) and fingerboard 7.2K & 4.0H Looks as though the tone switch/pot turned so the 47nF body touched the outlet socket forcing the bare lead of the cap against the grounded body and after that stayed touching. near enough, regardless of the where the control body rotated to next. The switch connects the white and black seriesed tails to ground , rather than left floating joined together in all those pdf graphics. What is the function of that option ? I thought electromagnetic noise nulling was due to reverse windings in each pick up and then one pickup rotated 180 relative to the other. Would guitarist people here find these string action heights above the pole pieces reasonable (i'm not a guitarist) 7 to 8 mm fingerboard 4 to 6mm bridge no mention of representative heights in that pdf |
#2
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Guitar body wiring and pickup query
"N_Cook" wrote in message ... Output was low. Instead of owner tightening the controls which were all loose and rotating , he started messing about with the pickup height posistioning and bridge height. EMGHz pickups , not these ones but I'm assuming they are ok as proportionate readings http://www.emgpickups.com/content/wi...MGHZ-H1-H4.pdf Bridge one 17.4K DC and 7.9H (1KHz) and fingerboard 7.2K & 4.0H Looks as though the tone switch/pot turned so the 47nF body touched the outlet socket forcing the bare lead of the cap against the grounded body and after that stayed touching. near enough, regardless of the where the control body rotated to next. The switch connects the white and black seriesed tails to ground , rather than left floating joined together in all those pdf graphics. What is the function of that option ? I thought electromagnetic noise nulling was due to reverse windings in each pick up and then one pickup rotated 180 relative to the other. Switching that point to ground shorts one of the coils, turning the humbucker into a single coil pickup. Gareth. |
#3
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Guitar body wiring and pickup query
Gareth Magennis wrote in message
... "N_Cook" wrote in message ... Output was low. Instead of owner tightening the controls which were all loose and rotating , he started messing about with the pickup height posistioning and bridge height. EMGHz pickups , not these ones but I'm assuming they are ok as proportionate readings http://www.emgpickups.com/content/wi...MGHZ-H1-H4.pdf Bridge one 17.4K DC and 7.9H (1KHz) and fingerboard 7.2K & 4.0H Looks as though the tone switch/pot turned so the 47nF body touched the outlet socket forcing the bare lead of the cap against the grounded body and after that stayed touching. near enough, regardless of the where the control body rotated to next. The switch connects the white and black seriesed tails to ground , rather than left floating joined together in all those pdf graphics. What is the function of that option ? I thought electromagnetic noise nulling was due to reverse windings in each pick up and then one pickup rotated 180 relative to the other. Switching that point to ground shorts one of the coils, turning the humbucker into a single coil pickup. Gareth. So given that these are made as humbuckers why would anyone want the option to pick up more stray EMI and also get reduced output? While at it any favorite ways to lock bushnuts. I intend double back-to-back nuts on the bushes and moulding plastic mechanical interlinks between the 2 pots and 3way switch, to stop any future rotation. But where to find an aesthetic thin nut for the 3way switch, the pot ones would be hidden by the knobs. It seems 3/16 to 1/4 inch fingerboard pickup heights between extreme frettings of strings is a standard. I assume the bridge ones can be closer though. |
#4
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Guitar body wiring and pickup query
So given that these are made as humbuckers why would anyone want the option to pick up more stray EMI and also get reduced output? Because they have a different sound. You may want a low output clean sound that does not distort the amplifier, and also be able to switch in a different sounding high output option that will overdrive the amplifier for solos perhaps. In effect the switch makes one pickup into two. Gareth. |
#5
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Guitar body wiring and pickup query
On Jul 16, 5:04*am, "N_Cook" wrote:
Gareth Magennis wrote in message ... "N_Cook" wrote in message ... Output was low. Instead of owner tightening the controls which were all loose and rotating , he started messing about with the pickup height posistioning and bridge height. EMGHz pickups , not these ones but I'm assuming they are ok as proportionate readings http://www.emgpickups.com/content/wi...MGHZ-H1-H4.pdf Bridge one 17.4K DC and 7.9H (1KHz) and fingerboard 7.2K & 4.0H Looks as though the tone switch/pot turned so the 47nF body touched the outlet socket forcing the bare lead of the cap against the grounded body and after that stayed touching. near enough, regardless of the where the control body rotated to next. The switch connects the white and black seriesed tails to ground , rather than left floating joined together in all those pdf graphics. What is the function of that option ? I thought electromagnetic noise nulling was due to reverse windings in each pick up and then one pickup rotated 180 relative to the other. Switching that point to ground shorts one of the coils, turning the humbucker into a single coil pickup. Gareth. So given that these are made as humbuckers why would anyone want the option to pick up more stray EMI and also get reduced output? While at it any favorite ways to lock bushnuts. I intend double back-to-back nuts on the bushes and moulding plastic mechanical interlinks between the 2 pots and 3way switch, to stop any future rotation. But where to find an aesthetic thin nut for the 3way switch, the pot ones would be hidden by the knobs. It seems 3/16 to 1/4 inch fingerboard pickup heights between extreme frettings of strings is a standard. I assume the bridge ones can be closer though. may work...Loctite easy to apply, easy to 'remove', yet acts like a locking nut |
#6
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Guitar body wiring and pickup query
Robert Macy wrote in message
... On Jul 16, 5:04 am, "N_Cook" wrote: Gareth Magennis wrote in message ... "N_Cook" wrote in message ... Output was low. Instead of owner tightening the controls which were all loose and rotating , he started messing about with the pickup height posistioning and bridge height. EMGHz pickups , not these ones but I'm assuming they are ok as proportionate readings http://www.emgpickups.com/content/wi...MGHZ-H1-H4.pdf Bridge one 17.4K DC and 7.9H (1KHz) and fingerboard 7.2K & 4.0H Looks as though the tone switch/pot turned so the 47nF body touched the outlet socket forcing the bare lead of the cap against the grounded body and after that stayed touching. near enough, regardless of the where the control body rotated to next. The switch connects the white and black seriesed tails to ground , rather than left floating joined together in all those pdf graphics. What is the function of that option ? I thought electromagnetic noise nulling was due to reverse windings in each pick up and then one pickup rotated 180 relative to the other. Switching that point to ground shorts one of the coils, turning the humbucker into a single coil pickup. Gareth. So given that these are made as humbuckers why would anyone want the option to pick up more stray EMI and also get reduced output? While at it any favorite ways to lock bushnuts. I intend double back-to-back nuts on the bushes and moulding plastic mechanical interlinks between the 2 pots and 3way switch, to stop any future rotation. But where to find an aesthetic thin nut for the 3way switch, the pot ones would be hidden by the knobs. It seems 3/16 to 1/4 inch fingerboard pickup heights between extreme frettings of strings is a standard. I assume the bridge ones can be closer though. may work...Loctite easy to apply, easy to 'remove', yet acts like a locking nut +++++++ For the 3w sw I found some knurled ring nuts of right diameter but wrong thread. Cut into the thickness with a 0.5mm thick Dremmel disc to leave about 1.5 mm thick . That matched the thread near enough to turn on by hand and then pliers and then locked the proper knurled nut over that. All controls are mounted through quite thick wood which presumably changes dimensions with humidity etc |
#7
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Guitar body wiring and pickup query
While at it any favorite ways to lock bushnuts. I intend double back-to-back nuts on the bushes and moulding plastic mechanical interlinks between the 2 pots and 3way switch, to stop any future rotation. But where to find an aesthetic thin nut for the 3way switch, the pot ones would be hidden by the knobs. Occam's razor - copious quantities of hot melt glue will stop any rotation of the pots, and can easily be removed when necessary. This combined with Loctite, as also suggested here, which will stop the nuts coming loose in the first instance. Blimey, you do tend to overcomplicate things sometimes. Gareth. |
#8
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Guitar body wiring and pickup query
In article ,
"Gareth Magennis" wrote: While at it any favorite ways to lock bushnuts. I intend double back-to-back nuts on the bushes and moulding plastic mechanical interlinks between the 2 pots and 3way switch, to stop any future rotation. But where to find an aesthetic thin nut for the 3way switch, the pot ones would be hidden by the knobs. Occam's razor - copious quantities of hot melt glue will stop any rotation of the pots, and can easily be removed when necessary. This combined with Loctite, as also suggested here, which will stop the nuts coming loose in the first instance. Blimey, you do tend to overcomplicate things sometimes. Gareth. I don't know when the OP sleeps. He'll spend 8 hrs. to avoid spending two cents. If someone used a wrong-thread home-made nut on my equipment, claiming it was "close enough," I'd be outraged. And, as far as loctite, two observations: 1. It will destroy thermoplastics 2. There are many formulations. The "permanent" stuff is aptly named. |
#9
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Guitar body wiring and pickup query
Smitty Two wrote in message
news In article , "Gareth Magennis" wrote: While at it any favorite ways to lock bushnuts. I intend double back-to-back nuts on the bushes and moulding plastic mechanical interlinks between the 2 pots and 3way switch, to stop any future rotation. But where to find an aesthetic thin nut for the 3way switch, the pot ones would be hidden by the knobs. Occam's razor - copious quantities of hot melt glue will stop any rotation of the pots, and can easily be removed when necessary. This combined with Loctite, as also suggested here, which will stop the nuts coming loose in the first instance. Blimey, you do tend to overcomplicate things sometimes. Gareth. I don't know when the OP sleeps. He'll spend 8 hrs. to avoid spending two cents. If someone used a wrong-thread home-made nut on my equipment, claiming it was "close enough," I'd be outraged. And, as far as loctite, two observations: 1. It will destroy thermoplastics 2. There are many formulations. The "permanent" stuff is aptly named. I hate loctite - it binds too well but on the other hand it goes off too quickly even if stored in a fridge. I don't know if 20mm/1.25 in thru chassis fuse holders are thermoplastic but I wish I had a fiver for each one I've come across that it is impossible to separate back nut from the barrel without cracking the barrel and having to replace the whole lot. 1 turn of the wrong thread, originally 2 turns , is just about right for this use, as I said it will migrate around the thread by finger pressure , so where is the harm of such a bodge. I would not try antd force 2 turns of the wrong thread in such circumstances. |
#10
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Guitar body wiring and pickup query
Gareth Magennis wrote in message
... While at it any favorite ways to lock bushnuts. I intend double back-to-back nuts on the bushes and moulding plastic mechanical interlinks between the 2 pots and 3way switch, to stop any future rotation. But where to find an aesthetic thin nut for the 3way switch, the pot ones would be hidden by the knobs. Occam's razor - copious quantities of hot melt glue will stop any rotation of the pots, and can easily be removed when necessary. This combined with Loctite, as also suggested here, which will stop the nuts coming loose in the first instance. Blimey, you do tend to overcomplicate things sometimes. Gareth. Strange you should refer to Occam ( Wm o' Occam , Surrey , England, IIRC) I run a sci caf and this coming monday is the philosophy of science and Occam comes into it apparently http://www.divdev.fsnet.co.uk/scicaf.htm coming back from OT Sections of hot melt sticks wedged in and then soldering iron and hot melt string "soldering " to lock in place is my resolution of this oft seen guitar innards problem. so even if the lock nuts work loose the controls will not rotate. |
#11
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Guitar body wiring and pickup query
Sections of hot melt sticks wedged in and then soldering iron and hot melt string "soldering " to lock in place is my resolution of this oft seen guitar innards problem. so even if the lock nuts work loose the controls will not rotate. Erm. didn't I just say that? Gareth. |
#12
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Guitar body wiring and pickup query
Gareth Magennis wrote in message
news Sections of hot melt sticks wedged in and then soldering iron and hot melt string "soldering " to lock in place is my resolution of this oft seen guitar innards problem. so even if the lock nuts work loose the controls will not rotate. Erm. didn't I just say that? Gareth. In circumstances like this I use hotmelt glue sticks, unmelted , more as engineering plastic. Cut and sliced with gardening secateurs to wedge them in place and only melting the ends together. Much less messy for anyone having to get in there later, to replace pots etc |
#13
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Guitar body wiring and pickup query
All
controls are mounted through quite thick wood which presumably changes dimensions with humidity etc Just measured, 8mm of natural wood thickness , no wonder there is problems of electric guitar controls loosening and turning. |
#14
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Guitar body wiring and pickup query
On Sat, 16 Jul 2011 13:04:37 +0100, N_Cook wrote:
Gareth Magennis wrote in message ... "N_Cook" wrote in message ... Output was low. Instead of owner tightening the controls which were all loose and rotating , he started messing about with the pickup height posistioning and bridge height. EMGHz pickups , not these ones but I'm assuming they are ok as proportionate readings http://www.emgpickups.com/content/wi...MGHZ-H1-H4.pdf Bridge one 17.4K DC and 7.9H (1KHz) and fingerboard 7.2K & 4.0H Looks as though the tone switch/pot turned so the 47nF body touched the outlet socket forcing the bare lead of the cap against the grounded body and after that stayed touching. near enough, regardless of the where the control body rotated to next. The switch connects the white and black seriesed tails to ground , rather than left floating joined together in all those pdf graphics. What is the function of that option ? I thought electromagnetic noise nulling was due to reverse windings in each pick up and then one pickup rotated 180 relative to the other. Switching that point to ground shorts one of the coils, turning the humbucker into a single coil pickup. Gareth. So given that these are made as humbuckers why would anyone want the option to pick up more stray EMI and also get reduced output? While at it any favorite ways to lock bushnuts. I intend double back-to-back nuts on the bushes and moulding plastic mechanical interlinks between the 2 pots and 3way switch, to stop any future rotation. But where to find an aesthetic thin nut for the 3way switch, the pot ones would be hidden by the knobs. It seems 3/16 to 1/4 inch fingerboard pickup heights between extreme frettings of strings is a standard. I assume the bridge ones can be closer though. Most humbuckers are made to give the owner to switch coils on and off. Why don't you google for some wiring diagrams there are many available. -- Live Fast Die Young, Leave A Pretty Corpse |
#15
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Guitar body wiring and pickup query
There are a variety of different wiring methods used for various reasons..
series, parallel, phase-reversed etc. Many guitar makers use very cheap pots, and many pots made today don't have the extending tab that was standard years ago, which would prevent the pot (or rotary switch) from rotating when mounted (typically) to a metal panel.. the tab/stub type pots required a second small hole to be drilled near the bushing hole. Many times, the tabs were just bent to the side to eliminate the need for the second hole. Mounting pots to wood/plastics etc, could really benefit from having those integral tabs, if the manufacturers would install them. Some players aren't familiar with the cheesy way the pots are mounted, and end up rotating them hard to the stops, forgetting where they were set or whatever. So, even if the mounting nuts are locked with threadlocker, it doesn't mean that some players won't turn the knobs past the stops. Some guitar builder/repairers (not manufacturers) use a signal cable with a bare shield, and solder the shield on the cans of the pots which helps keep the pots in the originally-installed orientation, although this practice isn't a positive locating method (the center conductor in this type of shielded signal cable is insulated with fabric, not vinyl, so the fabric is essentially unaffected by the soldering heat). There are locking washers for mounting pots and switches to softer materials which have very aggressive teeth for biting into the enclosure material and the case of the component. I dunno where Nigel gets his Loctite products, but they don't go bad prematurely.. I've had tubes of the red and blue that were more than a few years old, just stored in toolboxes or on shelves. An absence of air is what kicks the formula off, and the bottles are specific permeable plastics to prevent kick-off. BTW, there are some more recent Loctite products in tape form, and a stick formula in a chapstic-like dispenser. Both variations work as well as the liquid threadlockers, and also have long shelf lives. FWIW, the inside walls of the pockets/cavities in electric guitars are often coated with a conductive/shielding coating, so if signal/audio + terminals or wiring are touching the coating, the output will be weak. -- Cheers, WB .............. "N_Cook" wrote in message ... Output was low. Instead of owner tightening the controls which were all loose and rotating , he started messing about with the pickup height posistioning and bridge height. EMGHz pickups , not these ones but I'm assuming they are ok as proportionate readings http://www.emgpickups.com/content/wi...MGHZ-H1-H4.pdf Bridge one 17.4K DC and 7.9H (1KHz) and fingerboard 7.2K & 4.0H Looks as though the tone switch/pot turned so the 47nF body touched the outlet socket forcing the bare lead of the cap against the grounded body and after that stayed touching. near enough, regardless of the where the control body rotated to next. The switch connects the white and black seriesed tails to ground , rather than left floating joined together in all those pdf graphics. What is the function of that option ? I thought electromagnetic noise nulling was due to reverse windings in each pick up and then one pickup rotated 180 relative to the other. Would guitarist people here find these string action heights above the pole pieces reasonable (i'm not a guitarist) 7 to 8 mm fingerboard 4 to 6mm bridge no mention of representative heights in that pdf |
#16
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Guitar body wiring and pickup query
-- -- Wild_Bill wrote in message ... I dunno where Nigel gets his Loctite products, but they don't go bad prematurely.. I've had tubes of the red and blue that were more than a few years old, just stored in toolboxes or on shelves. An absence of air is what kicks the formula off, and the bottles are specific permeable plastics to prevent kick-off. Since I've been putting opened superglue capsules in a jam-jar with a sachet of activated silica gel crystals - now no problems with that glue going hard .. The complete opposite situation to loctite it would seem. Epoxy seems to go on and on. I'm still using a bulk pack 1Kg plus 1 Kg tubes of epoxy that must be 20 years old. |
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