Am looking for a reliable cost effective ATX Power Supply.

While researching found "Who's Who In Power Supplies, 2011: Brands Vs.
Manufacturers"
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...urer,2913.html

"Lack of protection circuits, low efficiency, and bad build quality
were major points of criticism." Like most PC hardware seems
important to do your homework.

Hope the protection circuits work. Do not want an explosive or fire
problem so am especially interested in power supplies that have
survived catastrophic events.

Thanks

Ken

KenO wrote:

Am looking for a reliable cost effective ATX Power Supply.

While researching found "Who's Who In Power Supplies, 2011: Brands Vs.
Manufacturers"
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...urer,2913.html

"Lack of protection circuits, low efficiency, and bad build quality
were major points of criticism." Like most PC hardware seems
important to do your homework.

Hope the protection circuits work. Do not want an explosive or fire
problem so am especially interested in power supplies that have
survived catastrophic events.

You may want to check JonnyGuru.com and HardwareSecrets.com for
recommended models and brands. Among the best manufacturers are
Seasonic, Enhance, Win-tact, and Zippy/Emacs, but also good are Delta,
Enermax, and Fortron-Source/Sparkle. These may be sold under various
brands, like Corsair, Thermaltake, PC Power & Cooling, and Antec, and
each of those brands may be made by several different companies. Some
manufacturers produce a wide variety of quality, with the better
companies simply substituting inferior brands of electrolytic
capacitors in their cheaper models (Seasonics may use OST capacitors,
Deltas may use Ltec), meaning the power supplies will work fine, only
they won't last forever because those capacitors will rot. Capacitor
quality matters a lot. For example, I have an ancient TV that's
needed only 2 of its Japanese capacitors replaced in 35 years, while
the digital converter box on top of it has had most of its Chinese
capacitors go bad in less than two years.

Even the very worst power supplies have protection circuits, only the
protection doesn't work fast enough to prevent damage.

"KenO" wrote in message
...

Am looking for a reliable cost effective ATX Power Supply. While
researching
found "Who's Who In Power Supplies, 2011: Brands vs. Manufacturers".

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...urer,2913.html

"Lack of protection circuits, low efficiency, and bad build quality were
major
points of criticism." Like most PC hardware, it seems important to do your
homework.

I read this article the other day. It won't tell you which brands you
"should" or "shouldn't" buy, but it provides a lot of useful information
about what to look for.

By the way, the Power Man supply in my 10-year-old computer is running fine.

On May 20, 11:34*am, KenO wrote:
Am looking for a reliable cost effective ATX Power Supply.

While researching found "Who's Who In Power Supplies, 2011: Brands Vs.
Manufacturers"http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/power-supply-oem-manufacturer,291...

"Lack of protection circuits, low efficiency, and bad build quality
were major points of criticism." *Like most PC hardware seems
important to do your homework.

Hope the protection circuits work. Do not want an explosive or fire
problem so am especially interested in power supplies that have
survived catastrophic events.

Thanks

Ken

Some have had issues with Antec power supplies but I've had no
problems at all. The don't run 24/7, only when being used. II have 3
Earthwatts units that auto switch 120/240 and claim high efficiency.
Quad core Phenom II with 2 HDD normally run 110 Watts checked with a
Kill-a-Watt. I recommend them.

G²

On Fri, 20 May 2011 11:34:42 -0700 (PDT), KenO
wrote:

Am looking for a reliable cost effective ATX Power Supply.

Reliable, powerful, cheap. Pick any two.

While researching found "Who's Who In Power Supplies, 2011: Brands Vs.
Manufacturers"
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...urer,2913.html

Interesting article, but insufficient information to even offer a
recommended power supply.

"Lack of protection circuits, low efficiency, and bad build quality
were major points of criticism." Like most PC hardware seems
important to do your homework.

If you look at the various ATX schematics found by Google Images, you
won't find one that lacks input protection. That's because in order
to obtain the multitude of certifications and logos plastered all over
the serial number sticker, input protection is required.

What I look for is power factor correction. That will drop the
efficiency somewhat, but is well worth it (and will soon be
mandatory).

Hope the protection circuits work. Do not want an explosive or fire
problem so am especially interested in power supplies that have
survived catastrophic events.

The manufacturers warranty only extends to the value of the power
supply. The metal case does quite well at containing any explosions.
However, the clear plastic fans, with plastic grill, will not survive
and probably fragment if the guts explode.

A few years ago, I decided it would be interesting to see what happens
if I load an ATX power supply with it's maximum ratings. The power
specs are a bit complexicated, so I settled on a somewhat less than
maximum load. For example, the 5V and 3.3V loads are combined for a
maximum of 115W. I forgot exactly what I used:
www.formfactors.org/developer/specs/ATX12V_PSDG_2_2_public_br2.pdf
250 watts of heat is a lot of heat.

I dug out my collection of junk ATX supplies, and fired them up. I
think two of them simply shut down and gave up. One blew up, but it
may have been blown before the test. Most survived for about 5
minutes, and then shut down from overheating. The 5V line dropped to
as low as 4.2V on about half the supplies. The 12V line was even
worse, dropping to below 11VDC. None of the junk power supplies came
even close to meeting their own specifications.

So, who makes high quality ATX power supplies? Well, it's none of the
commodity or OEM vendors. It's possible that the industrial and
server vendors have better power supplies, but I didn't test any of
those. I also can't afford them.

So, how do you pick the lesser evil power supply? Well, one way is to
check the density of the components. If the PCB is sparse, with large
empty gaps between components, they've cut some corners. Better power
components tend to be big and heft. If the power supply is crammed
full of parts, you have a good chance of having found something
usable.

Also, I rather like Dell power supplies. I've had my share of Dell
failures, but reliability is not the attraction. In their larger
boxes, Dell uses a single 120mm cooling fan, with the speed controlled
by the temperature. That makes for a very quiet machine.

--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831-336-2558
# http://802.11junk.com
# http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS

On 5/20/2011 11:34 AM, KenO wrote:
Am looking for a reliable cost effective ATX Power Supply.

While researching found "Who's Who In Power Supplies, 2011: Brands
Vs. Manufacturers"
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...urer,2913.html





"Lack of protection circuits, low efficiency, and bad build quality
were major points of criticism." Like most PC hardware seems
important to do your homework.

Hope the protection circuits work. Do not want an explosive or fire
problem so am especially interested in power supplies that have
survived catastrophic events.

Thanks

Ken


FWIW, I recommend Corsair. I purchased their 650 model about 6 months
ago to replaced a failed Antec. The reason I chose a Corsair is that
they appear to hold up fairly well in review testing. The 650 also uses
105 degree rated Japanese capacitors (as opposed to the 85 degree
Chinese caps typically used). If you check out what the gaming community
favors - and they are pretty hard on power supplies - you'll notice that
many choose this brand.

Some have had issues with Antec power supplies but I've had no
problems at all. The don't run 24/7, only when being used. II have 3
Earthwatts units that auto switch 120/240 and claim high efficiency.
Quad core Phenom II with 2 HDD normally run 110 Watts checked with a
Kill-a-Watt. I recommend them.

I have an Antec EA380 running 24/7 without air conditioning. No problem
so far....

--
May the Force & farces be with you!

Hi larry moe 'n curly,

"You may want to check JonnyGuru.com and HardwareSecrets.com for
recommended models and brands. *Among the best manufacturers are
Seasonic, Enhance, Win-tact, and Zippy/Emacs, but also good are Delta,
Enermax, and Fortron-Source/Sparkle. *These may be sold under various
brands, like Corsair, Thermaltake, PC Power & Cooling, and Antec, and
each of those brands may be made by several different companies."

Thanks for the suggestions.

"These may be sold under various brands, like Corsair, Thermaltake, PC
Power & Cooling, and Antec, and each of those brands may be made by
several different companies." Guess you really have to know the
reputation of a specific model.

Ken

Hi Jeff,

"What I look for is power factor correction. *That will drop the
efficiency somewhat, but is well worth it (and will soon be
mandatory).
Any idea when it will become mandatory?

"I forgot exactly what I used: www.formfactors.org/developer/specs/
ATX12V_PSDG_2_2_public_br2.pdf
Tried to use the link but only got "404. That’s an error."
http://static.googleusercontent.com/...public_br2.pdf

"So, who makes high quality ATX power supplies? *Well, it's none of
the commodity or OEM vendors. *It's possible that the industrial and
server vendors have better power supplies, but I didn't test any of
those. *I also can't afford them....I rather like Dell power supplies.
*I've had my share of Dell failures, but reliability is not the
attraction. In their larger boxes, Dell uses a single 120mm cooling
fan, with the speed controlled by the temperature. *That makes for a
very quiet machine."
Do you know who makes the Dell PSU with the 120mm fan?

Ken

On Mon, 23 May 2011 12:41:19 -0700 (PDT), KenO wrote:

Hi Jeff,

"What I look for is power factor correction. Â*That will drop the
efficiency somewhat, but is well worth it (and will soon be
mandatory).
Any idea when it will become mandatory?

"I forgot exactly what I used: www.formfactors.org/developer/specs/
ATX12V_PSDG_2_2_public_br2.pdf
Tried to use the link but only got "404. Thats an error."
http://static.googleusercontent.com/...public_br2.pdf

"So, who makes high quality ATX power supplies? Â*Well, it's none of
the commodity or OEM vendors. Â*It's possible that the industrial and
server vendors have better power supplies, but I didn't test any of
those. Â*I also can't afford them....I rather like Dell power supplies.
Â*I've had my share of Dell failures, but reliability is not the
attraction. In their larger boxes, Dell uses a single 120mm cooling
fan, with the speed controlled by the temperature. Â*That makes for a
very quiet machine."
Do you know who makes the Dell PSU with the 120mm fan?

Ken

Set your user agent to quote properly, last two posts make no sense.

On Mon, 23 May 2011 12:41:19 -0700 (PDT), KenO
wrote:

"What I look for is power factor correction. *That will drop the
efficiency somewhat, but is well worth it (and will soon be
mandatory).
Any idea when it will become mandatory?

In Europe, IEC 555-2 currently requires power factor correction to
reduce harmonics on power mains in power supplies. It's been around
for at least 15 years.

I don't know anything about the US status. Googling returned a muddle
which will require more time to untangle than I'm willing to burn.
Sorry(tm).

"I forgot exactly what I used: www.formfactors.org/developer/specs/
ATX12V_PSDG_2_2_public_br2.pdf
Tried to use the link but only got "404. That’s an error."

Very strange link. See ATX 2.2 link at:
http://www.formfactors.org/FFDetail.asp?FFID=1&CatID=2
The URL is a mix of / and \ in the path. That usually works, but not
this time. There are some links he
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATX#External_links
which seem to work better. Here's my copy in case you can't get the
link to work:
http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/crud/atx2_2.pdf

Do you know who makes the Dell PSU with the 120mm fan?

It won't work for building your own machine. The case has exactly one
120mm fan and it's not inside the power supply. It's near the bottom
of the case and acts as an air intake. The hot air gets blown out
through the power supply vent holes.
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-7/271271/Opt960%20Inside2.jpg
The fan is the black thing above the disk drives. Air flow is from
left to right. There's no fan in the power supply.


More on PFC
http://www.nist.gov/pml/quantum/power_121509.cfm
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cases/display/atx-psu5.html
This should explain power factor:
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cases/display/atx-psu5_3.html#sect0
http://www.silverstonetek.com/tech/wh_pfc.php
More he
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_factor
--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558