Universal Remote Control (proper one) / cracking coding?
 

2 vital functions only via missing remote control, not available to buy or
borrow, to copy/learn from or to make a simple 2 function r/c. The other
functions are setup menus that have no need to be on a remote.
7 data lines to 3x4 ,12 switch matrix on the unit and no odd spare lines.
Large proprietory BGA controller does the decoding so totally hidden, no
separate IR decoder available to monitor.
Tried 5 "universal" zappers in quick search but no change from on to
standby.
Any ideas for at least cracking the ident/start code ?
Is it always the case that this ident code repeated after a gap is always
the code for on to standby operation?
Any off-the-wall suggestions for consideration? eg 2 fans/ motorised vanes
at variable analogue voltages interrupting pulsed beam of order 20 to 40
microsec repeat rate

Universal Remote Control (proper one) / cracking coding?
 

On 10 jul, 09:20, "N_Cook" wrote:
2 vital functions only via missing remote control, not available to buy or
borrow, to copy/learn from or to make a simple 2 function r/c. The other
functions are setup menus that have no need to be on a remote.
7 data lines to 3x4 ,12 switch matrix on the unit and no odd spare lines.
Large proprietory BGA controller does the decoding so totally hidden, no
separate IR decoder available to monitor.
Tried 5 "universal" zappers in quick search but no change from on to
standby.
Any ideas for at least cracking the ident/start code ?
Is it always the case that this ident code repeated after a gap is always
the code for on to standby operation?
Any off-the-wall suggestions for consideration? eg 2 fans/ motorised vanes
at variable analogue voltages interrupting pulsed beam of order 20 to 40
microsec repeat rate

make/model of equipment in question?

Universal Remote Control (proper one) / cracking coding?
 

b wrote:
On 10 jul, 09:20, "N_Cook" wrote:
2 vital functions only via missing remote control, not available to buy or
borrow, to copy/learn from or to make a simple 2 function r/c. The other
functions are setup menus that have no need to be on a remote.
7 data lines to 3x4 ,12 switch matrix on the unit and no odd spare lines.
Large proprietory BGA controller does the decoding so totally hidden, no
separate IR decoder available to monitor.
Tried 5 "universal" zappers in quick search but no change from on to
standby.
Any ideas for at least cracking the ident/start code ?
Is it always the case that this ident code repeated after a gap is always
the code for on to standby operation?
Any off-the-wall suggestions for consideration? eg 2 fans/ motorised vanes
at variable analogue voltages interrupting pulsed beam of order 20 to 40
microsec repeat rate

make/model of equipment in question?

I'll offer one that I would like the IR control codes for:

Singing Machines SMG-301 Karaoke box - 3CD elderly device belonging to
our village hall. Seems to be obsolete, but kit itself still works OK.
The remote unfortunately does not exist any more...

It is known to be incompatible with generic IR controllers and a
selection of randomly chosen CD controllers. The original controller has
vanished so no chance of repairing it.

If anyone would be kind enough to specify the control code sequences it
sends for each of the keys I could easily program a PIC to send them.
Thanks. Just the numbers and play buttons would do...

Thanks for any enlightenment.

Regards,
Martin Brown

Universal Remote Control (proper one) / cracking coding?
 

Martin Brown wrote in message
...
b wrote:
On 10 jul, 09:20, "N_Cook" wrote:
2 vital functions only via missing remote control, not available to buy
or
borrow, to copy/learn from or to make a simple 2 function r/c. The
other
functions are setup menus that have no need to be on a remote.
7 data lines to 3x4 ,12 switch matrix on the unit and no odd spare
lines.
Large proprietory BGA controller does the decoding so totally hidden,
no
separate IR decoder available to monitor.
Tried 5 "universal" zappers in quick search but no change from on to
standby.
Any ideas for at least cracking the ident/start code ?
Is it always the case that this ident code repeated after a gap is
always
the code for on to standby operation?
Any off-the-wall suggestions for consideration? eg 2 fans/ motorised
vanes
at variable analogue voltages interrupting pulsed beam of order 20 to
40
microsec repeat rate

make/model of equipment in question?

I'll offer one that I would like the IR control codes for:

Singing Machines SMG-301 Karaoke box - 3CD elderly device belonging to
our village hall. Seems to be obsolete, but kit itself still works OK.
The remote unfortunately does not exist any more...

It is known to be incompatible with generic IR controllers and a
selection of randomly chosen CD controllers. The original controller has
vanished so no chance of repairing it.

If anyone would be kind enough to specify the control code sequences it
sends for each of the keys I could easily program a PIC to send them.
Thanks. Just the numbers and play buttons would do...

Thanks for any enlightenment.

Regards,
Martin Brown


The only suggestion I have is go into Google/images and try and find another
make+model that looks like a rebadged version of your one, then hunt for a
replacement on that make and model

--
Diverse Devices, Southampton, England
electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list on
http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/

Universal Remote Control (proper one) / cracking coding?
 

N_Cook wrote:

I'll offer one that I would like the IR control codes for:

Singing Machines SMG-301 Karaoke box - 3CD elderly device belonging to
our village hall. Seems to be obsolete, but kit itself still works OK.
The remote unfortunately does not exist any more...

It is known to be incompatible with generic IR controllers and a
selection of randomly chosen CD controllers. The original controller has
vanished so no chance of repairing it.

If anyone would be kind enough to specify the control code sequences it
sends for each of the keys I could easily program a PIC to send them.
Thanks. Just the numbers and play buttons would do...

Thanks for any enlightenment.

Regards,
Martin Brown


The only suggestion I have is go into Google/images and try and find
another make+model that looks like a rebadged version of your one, then
hunt for a replacement on that make and model

If you can find a lookalike make/model on google images then it's worth
looking on www.remotecentral.com to see if anyone has made a config file
for the philips pronto touchscreen remotes for that device and on the site
for the company that makes the 'oneforall' brand remotes (www.ezremote.com)
to see if there's a setup code for your device on a recent model of their
universal remotes.

If either of these sites has a downloadable config with your device
supported then the raw codes can be exctracted from the config without
needing access to the correct universal remote and maybe allow you to
create that pic based remote (or maybe find someone to loan you the correct
remote for the config or one that can already operate your CD player and
let you copy all keys into a cheap learning remote).

Unfortunately remotes are complex devices - there are at least 20 different
protocols used (philips have 2, NEC have at least 2, Toshiba have a couple,
Sony have another couple, etc, all with multibit device number and button
codes making it almost impossible to guess correct code to send, and an
unknown brand chinese player could have used any one of them) so emulating
one with a PIC chip isn't as easy as you would expect.

Universal Remote Control (proper one) / cracking coding?
 

"Nigel Feltham" wrote in message o.uk...
N_Cook wrote:

I'll offer one that I would like the IR control codes for:

Singing Machines SMG-301 Karaoke box - 3CD elderly device belonging to
our village hall. Seems to be obsolete, but kit itself still works OK.
The remote unfortunately does not exist any more...

It is known to be incompatible with generic IR controllers and a
selection of randomly chosen CD controllers. The original controller has
vanished so no chance of repairing it.

If anyone would be kind enough to specify the control code sequences it
sends for each of the keys I could easily program a PIC to send them.
Thanks. Just the numbers and play buttons would do...

Thanks for any enlightenment.

Regards,
Martin Brown


The only suggestion I have is go into Google/images and try and find
another make+model that looks like a rebadged version of your one, then
hunt for a replacement on that make and model

If you can find a lookalike make/model on google images then it's worth
looking on www.remotecentral.com to see if anyone has made a config file
for the philips pronto touchscreen remotes for that device and on the site
for the company that makes the 'oneforall' brand remotes (www.ezremote.com)
to see if there's a setup code for your device on a recent model of their
universal remotes.

If either of these sites has a downloadable config with your device
supported then the raw codes can be exctracted from the config without
needing access to the correct universal remote and maybe allow you to
create that pic based remote (or maybe find someone to loan you the correct
remote for the config or one that can already operate your CD player and
let you copy all keys into a cheap learning remote).

Unfortunately remotes are complex devices - there are at least 20 different
protocols used (philips have 2, NEC have at least 2, Toshiba have a couple,
Sony have another couple, etc, all with multibit device number and button
codes making it almost impossible to guess correct code to send, and an
unknown brand chinese player could have used any one of them) so emulating
one with a PIC chip isn't as easy as you would expect.

I always wondered how the mute works? I'd like to be able to universally mute
any TV (usefull). Now the question is whether there are two different signals
for mute on and mute off or is it just a Flip/Flop kind of thing.

M

Universal Remote Control (proper one) / cracking coding?
 

In article ,
TheM wrote:

I always wondered how the mute works?

In every case I know, MUTE is treated just like any other button on
the remote. The remote usually transmits an IR packet which (when
decoded) says "Device ID NNN, button MMM has been pressed".

It's up to the IR receiver logic, and the microcontroller in the TV,
to decode the modulated IR burst, pull out the device ID and "realize"
that the ID is that of the TV set, pull out the button ID and
"realize" that this means "mute", and do whatever is necessary.

I'd like to be able to universally mute
any TV (usefull).

Unless your remote control is capable of firing a 50-calibre plastic
slug through through the TV screen, that's not going to happen :-)

Every manufacturer can choose its own IR-modulation schema and command
packet format (although there are a few very popular variants), device
IDs, and button IDs. There is no universal standard.

Now the question is whether there are two different signals
for mute on and mute off or is it just a Flip/Flop kind of thing.

Almost always a flip-flop, just like the POWER button. The remote
control doesn't have any way of knowing whether the TV is on or off,
muted or unmuted, etc.

In some remote-control dialects, there are different variants of some
command codes (I think they're called "discrete" codes but I may be
misremebering). For instance, the POWER code is used by the normal
power-on/off pushbutton on the remote, and is a toggle... and there
are separate POWER ON and POWER OFF codes as well. The POWER ON code
would turn on the power if it's off, and would have no effect if the
TV is already on.

These discrete codes usually aren't programmed directly to a
pushbutton on the remote. Rather, they're used when composing a
complex "macro" sequence of commands, on a programmable remote. One
might set up a special-purpose button which means "Turn on the TV if
it's off, turn on the DVD player if it's off, select the DVD input on
the TV, dim the room lights to 50%, wait 10 seconds, send a PLAY
command to the DVD player." Using a discrete-ON (e.g.) command
ensures that the sequence will work correctly regardless of whether
the device is on or off.

I've never seen a remote which has discrete MUTE and UNMUTE
commands... it's always been a toggle. Some devices may support this,
but I haven't run into one myself as far as I know.



--
Dave Platt AE6EO
Friends of Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!

Universal Remote Control (proper one) / cracking coding?
 

On Mon, 13 Jul 2009 10:10:59 +0100, N_Cook wrote:



Martin Brown wrote in message
...
b wrote:
On 10 jul, 09:20, "N_Cook" wrote:
2 vital functions only via missing remote control, not available to buy
or
borrow, to copy/learn from or to make a simple 2 function r/c. The
other
functions are setup menus that have no need to be on a remote.
7 data lines to 3x4 ,12 switch matrix on the unit and no odd spare
lines.
Large proprietory BGA controller does the decoding so totally hidden,
no
separate IR decoder available to monitor.
Tried 5 "universal" zappers in quick search but no change from on to
standby.
Any ideas for at least cracking the ident/start code ?
Is it always the case that this ident code repeated after a gap is
always
the code for on to standby operation?
Any off-the-wall suggestions for consideration? eg 2 fans/ motorised
vanes
at variable analogue voltages interrupting pulsed beam of order 20 to
40
microsec repeat rate

make/model of equipment in question?

I'll offer one that I would like the IR control codes for:

Singing Machines SMG-301 Karaoke box - 3CD elderly device belonging to
our village hall. Seems to be obsolete, but kit itself still works OK.
The remote unfortunately does not exist any more...

It is known to be incompatible with generic IR controllers and a
selection of randomly chosen CD controllers. The original controller has
vanished so no chance of repairing it.

If anyone would be kind enough to specify the control code sequences it
sends for each of the keys I could easily program a PIC to send them.
Thanks. Just the numbers and play buttons would do...

Thanks for any enlightenment.

Regards,
Martin Brown


The only suggestion I have is go into Google/images and try and find another
make+model that looks like a rebadged version of your one, then hunt for a
replacement on that make and model

--
Diverse Devices, Southampton, England
electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list on
http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/






You might also try the novii-remote web site, they sell an IR remote app for
the palm pda and they had a fairly large database available.
www.novii.tv, www.novii.com

You might want to post on their codebase
forum?
http://www.novii.tv/up/forum/viewfor...07d5815fa55072
8ae016

Universal Remote Control (proper one) / cracking coding?
 

TheM wrote in message
...
"Nigel Feltham" wrote in message
o.uk...
N_Cook wrote:

I'll offer one that I would like the IR control codes for:

Singing Machines SMG-301 Karaoke box - 3CD elderly device belonging to
our village hall. Seems to be obsolete, but kit itself still works OK.
The remote unfortunately does not exist any more...

It is known to be incompatible with generic IR controllers and a
selection of randomly chosen CD controllers. The original controller
has
vanished so no chance of repairing it.

If anyone would be kind enough to specify the control code sequences
it
sends for each of the keys I could easily program a PIC to send them.
Thanks. Just the numbers and play buttons would do...

Thanks for any enlightenment.

Regards,
Martin Brown


The only suggestion I have is go into Google/images and try and find
another make+model that looks like a rebadged version of your one, then
hunt for a replacement on that make and model

If you can find a lookalike make/model on google images then it's worth
looking on www.remotecentral.com to see if anyone has made a config file
for the philips pronto touchscreen remotes for that device and on the
site
for the company that makes the 'oneforall' brand remotes
(www.ezremote.com)
to see if there's a setup code for your device on a recent model of
their
universal remotes.

If either of these sites has a downloadable config with your device
supported then the raw codes can be exctracted from the config without
needing access to the correct universal remote and maybe allow you to
create that pic based remote (or maybe find someone to loan you the
correct
remote for the config or one that can already operate your CD player and
let you copy all keys into a cheap learning remote).

Unfortunately remotes are complex devices - there are at least 20
different
protocols used (philips have 2, NEC have at least 2, Toshiba have a
couple,
Sony have another couple, etc, all with multibit device number and
button
codes making it almost impossible to guess correct code to send, and an
unknown brand chinese player could have used any one of them) so
emulating
one with a PIC chip isn't as easy as you would expect.

I always wondered how the mute works? I'd like to be able to universally
mute
any TV (usefull). Now the question is whether there are two different
signals
for mute on and mute off or is it just a Flip/Flop kind of thing.

M




I seem to remember one of those gadget shps had a wrist watch that had an IR
random pulse stream mode. So you could sit in front of a TV and every now
and then TV would change channels or misbehave.


--
Diverse Devices, Southampton, England
electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list on
http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/

Universal Remote Control (proper one) / cracking coding?
 

Nitro wrote:

snip
You might also try the novii-remote web site, they sell an IR remote app for
the palm pda and they had a fairly large database available.
www.novii.tv, www.novii.com

You might want to post on their codebase
forum?
http://www.novii.tv/up/forum/viewfor...07d5815fa55072
8ae016

Indeed, see my comments earlier in this thread. I have used "OmniRemote"
with some success on a Palm IIIX.

Michael

Universal Remote Control (proper one) / cracking coding?
 

Nigel Feltham wrote:
N_Cook wrote:

I'll offer one that I would like the IR control codes for:

Singing Machines SMG-301 Karaoke box - 3CD elderly device belonging to
our village hall. Seems to be obsolete, but kit itself still works OK.
The remote unfortunately does not exist any more...

It is known to be incompatible with generic IR controllers and a
selection of randomly chosen CD controllers. The original controller has
vanished so no chance of repairing it.

If anyone would be kind enough to specify the control code sequences it
sends for each of the keys I could easily program a PIC to send them.
Thanks. Just the numbers and play buttons would do...

Thanks for any enlightenment.

Regards,
Martin Brown

The only suggestion I have is go into Google/images and try and find
another make+model that looks like a rebadged version of your one, then
hunt for a replacement on that make and model

If you can find a lookalike make/model on google images then it's worth
looking on www.remotecentral.com to see if anyone has made a config file
for the philips pronto touchscreen remotes for that device and on the site
for the company that makes the 'oneforall' brand remotes (www.ezremote.com)
to see if there's a setup code for your device on a recent model of their
universal remotes.

If either of these sites has a downloadable config with your device
supported then the raw codes can be exctracted from the config without
needing access to the correct universal remote and maybe allow you to
create that pic based remote (or maybe find someone to loan you the correct
remote for the config or one that can already operate your CD player and
let you copy all keys into a cheap learning remote).

If the original unit still existed that would be handy. I might yet be
able to find someone locally with an SMG-301 and clone the controller.

Unfortunately remotes are complex devices - there are at least 20 different
protocols used (philips have 2, NEC have at least 2, Toshiba have a couple,
Sony have another couple, etc, all with multibit device number and button
codes making it almost impossible to guess correct code to send, and an
unknown brand chinese player could have used any one of them) so emulating
one with a PIC chip isn't as easy as you would expect.

I thought that might be a problem. I wonder why SMG made their remote
deliberately incompatible with generic universal remote controls?
(it even says this in the manual which I have now found - unhelpful)

Thanks everyone for the various suggestions. I haven't been able to find
a codebase for the SMG-301 but I have found some new places to look!

Regards,
Martin Brown

Universal Remote Control (proper one) / cracking coding?
 

Martin Brown wrote in message
...
b wrote:
On 10 jul, 09:20, "N_Cook" wrote:
2 vital functions only via missing remote control, not available to buy
or
borrow, to copy/learn from or to make a simple 2 function r/c. The
other
functions are setup menus that have no need to be on a remote.
7 data lines to 3x4 ,12 switch matrix on the unit and no odd spare
lines.
Large proprietory BGA controller does the decoding so totally hidden,
no
separate IR decoder available to monitor.
Tried 5 "universal" zappers in quick search but no change from on to
standby.
Any ideas for at least cracking the ident/start code ?
Is it always the case that this ident code repeated after a gap is
always
the code for on to standby operation?
Any off-the-wall suggestions for consideration? eg 2 fans/ motorised
vanes
at variable analogue voltages interrupting pulsed beam of order 20 to
40
microsec repeat rate

make/model of equipment in question?

I'll offer one that I would like the IR control codes for:

Singing Machines SMG-301 Karaoke box - 3CD elderly device belonging to
our village hall. Seems to be obsolete, but kit itself still works OK.
The remote unfortunately does not exist any more...

It is known to be incompatible with generic IR controllers and a
selection of randomly chosen CD controllers. The original controller has
vanished so no chance of repairing it.

If anyone would be kind enough to specify the control code sequences it
sends for each of the keys I could easily program a PIC to send them.
Thanks. Just the numbers and play buttons would do...

Thanks for any enlightenment.

Regards,
Martin Brown


I found the manual for my Tevion URCT 48B "universal"/learning r/c.
4 codes for Singer DVD units
scoping , without digging out a storage scope, just shows the same
background code of 105mS cycle repeat, 8.5mS block, space, 0.6mS block,
carrier 25uS, the non-repeated coding bursts are not triggerable.

--
Diverse Devices, Southampton, England
electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list on
http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/