|
Post mortem on an IEC connector
Arfa Daily wrote in message
... "Adrian Tuddenham" wrote in message valid.invalid... Arfa Daily wrote: "Adrian Tuddenham" wrote in message alid.invalid... Eeyore wrote: The EU Commission should be strung by their necks from lamp-posts for being a bunch of technically ignorant ****s. Why do they think lead was used in solder in the first place ? For fun ? In the past I have many times agreed with your facts, but I have often disagreed with your way of expressing them. On this occasion I am with you all the way. Let's hope the first aeroplane to crash because of lead-free solder has only Brussels diplomats and anti-lead campaigners on board. -- ~ Adrian Tuddenham ~ (Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply) www.poppyrecords.co.uk As far as I know, at this point in time, the avionics industry still has an exemption from having to use the stuff. Now I wonder why that could be ... ? They may be exempt, but what might they do when they can't get the proper stuff any more because no manufacturer can afford to run two production lines for the same product simultaneously and daren't risk getting them muddled? 1) Set up special production lines. 2) Stop making avionics. 3) Change the rules and use lead-free. -- ~ Adrian Tuddenham ~ (Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply) www.poppyrecords.co.uk There are no plans at the moment, from what I can gather, for manufacturers to stop producing leaded solder, nor for distributors to drop it. There is much 'legacy' equipment out there, which is manufactured in leaded solder, and should not, as a consequence, be repaired using lead-free solder, according to published wisdom from those who should know. There is no legal requirement to use lead-free for the purposes of effecting such repairs. As well as avionics, there are a number of other exemptions in important fields such as medical equipment, and some military areas. Again, I wonder why that could be ... ? As far as I understand it, the American military will not tolerate the stuff being used in any of their equipment. How eminently sensible of them. Pity we haven't got the same courage of our convictions to stand up to the green mist brigade on this side of the pond ... Arfa For anyone in production : I cannot reveal the company , Germany and UK , makes equipment that can be found, not exclusively, in laboratories. They got a derogation, allowing the continued use of leaded solder because about 10 percent of their output goes to medical labs, not operating theatres. And deemed inappropriate to have to be forced to run 2 lines , 2 stocking regimes etc -- Diverse Devices, Southampton, England electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list on http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/ |
Post mortem on an IEC connector
Meat Plow wrote:
On Wed, 27 May 2009 14:10:55 +0100, "Arfa Daily" wrote: "Adrian Tuddenham" wrote in message valid.invalid... Arfa Daily wrote: "Adrian Tuddenham" wrote in message alid.invalid... Eeyore wrote: The EU Commission should be strung by their necks from lamp-posts for being a bunch of technically ignorant ****s. Why do they think lead was used in solder in the first place ? For fun ? In the past I have many times agreed with your facts, but I have often disagreed with your way of expressing them. On this occasion I am with you all the way. Let's hope the first aeroplane to crash because of lead-free solder has only Brussels diplomats and anti-lead campaigners on board. -- ~ Adrian Tuddenham ~ (Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply) www.poppyrecords.co.uk As far as I know, at this point in time, the avionics industry still has an exemption from having to use the stuff. Now I wonder why that could be ... ? They may be exempt, but what might they do when they can't get the proper stuff any more because no manufacturer can afford to run two production lines for the same product simultaneously and daren't risk getting them muddled? 1) Set up special production lines. 2) Stop making avionics. 3) Change the rules and use lead-free. -- ~ Adrian Tuddenham ~ (Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply) www.poppyrecords.co.uk There are no plans at the moment, from what I can gather, for manufacturers to stop producing leaded solder, nor for distributors to drop it. There is much 'legacy' equipment out there, which is manufactured in leaded solder, and should not, as a consequence, be repaired using lead-free solder, according to published wisdom from those who should know. There is no legal requirement to use lead-free for the purposes of effecting such repairs. As well as avionics, there are a number of other exemptions in important fields such as medical equipment, and some military areas. Again, I wonder why that could be ... ? As far as I understand it, the American military will not tolerate the stuff being used in any of their equipment. How eminently sensible of them. Pity we haven't got the same courage of our convictions to stand up to the green mist brigade on this side of the pond ... Arfa Maybe after the Eurofighter fleet is grounded because of avionics failures linked to LF solder? Hope they don't use it to solder them Airbuses together :) Nah... They use superior glue to hold them together....I hope.. |
Post mortem on an IEC connector
Adrian Tuddenham wrote: Arfa Daily wrote: "Adrian Tuddenham" wrote Eeyore wrote: The EU Commission should be strung by their necks from lamp-posts for being a bunch of technically ignorant ****s. Why do they think lead was used in solder in the first place ? For fun ? In the past I have many times agreed with your facts, but I have often disagreed with your way of expressing them. On this occasion I am with you all the way. Let's hope the first aeroplane to crash because of lead-free solder has only Brussels diplomats and anti-lead campaigners on board. As far as I know, at this point in time, the avionics industry still has an exemption from having to use the stuff. Now I wonder why that could be ... ? They may be exempt, but what might they do when they can't get the proper stuff any more because no manufacturer can afford to run two production lines for the same product simultaneously and daren't risk getting them muddled? Fair comment. Most of the semi manufacturers' output goes to normal commercial users who artifically 'need' lead free. 1) Set up special production lines. 2) Stop making avionics. 3) Change the rules and use lead-free. Believe it or not there is now a new industry re-plating component leads with Pb-Sn solder ! Graham |
Post mortem on an IEC connector
Arfa Daily wrote: Pity we haven't got the same courage of our convictions to stand up to the green mist brigade on this side of the pond ... " green mist " ! I like it. We used to call it tomfoolery. Graham |
Post mortem on an IEC connector
Meat Plow wrote: Hope they don't use it to solder them Airbuses together :) But they're made of plastic ! ;~) Graham -- due to the hugely increased level of spam please make the obvious adjustment to my email address |
Post mortem on an IEC connector
Sjouke Burry wrote: Meat Plow wrote: Hope they don't use it to solder them Airbuses together :) Nah... They use superior glue to hold them together....I hope.. Did you know the world's first jet airliner ( the DH Comet ) used 'redux' glue to hold the majority of the airframe together ? Shame they didn't use it round the windows and access panels, thinking rivets were more 'belt and braces' not realising about microfractures from the drill holes. Caught out by a previously unknown phenomenon. I can hardly believe they had prototype Comets flying around 1948 ! Britain was 100% in the lead at that time. Graham -- due to the hugely increased level of spam please make the obvious adjustment to my email address |
Post mortem on an IEC connector
"Meat Plow" wrote in message ... On Wed, 27 May 2009 14:10:55 +0100, "Arfa Daily" wrote: "Adrian Tuddenham" wrote in message news:1j0c3um.1l6pfnsuahyycN%adrian@poppyrecords. invalid.invalid... Arfa Daily wrote: "Adrian Tuddenham" wrote in message alid.invalid... Eeyore wrote: The EU Commission should be strung by their necks from lamp-posts for being a bunch of technically ignorant ****s. Why do they think lead was used in solder in the first place ? For fun ? In the past I have many times agreed with your facts, but I have often disagreed with your way of expressing them. On this occasion I am with you all the way. Let's hope the first aeroplane to crash because of lead-free solder has only Brussels diplomats and anti-lead campaigners on board. -- ~ Adrian Tuddenham ~ (Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply) www.poppyrecords.co.uk As far as I know, at this point in time, the avionics industry still has an exemption from having to use the stuff. Now I wonder why that could be ... ? They may be exempt, but what might they do when they can't get the proper stuff any more because no manufacturer can afford to run two production lines for the same product simultaneously and daren't risk getting them muddled? 1) Set up special production lines. 2) Stop making avionics. 3) Change the rules and use lead-free. -- ~ Adrian Tuddenham ~ (Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply) www.poppyrecords.co.uk There are no plans at the moment, from what I can gather, for manufacturers to stop producing leaded solder, nor for distributors to drop it. There is much 'legacy' equipment out there, which is manufactured in leaded solder, and should not, as a consequence, be repaired using lead-free solder, according to published wisdom from those who should know. There is no legal requirement to use lead-free for the purposes of effecting such repairs. As well as avionics, there are a number of other exemptions in important fields such as medical equipment, and some military areas. Again, I wonder why that could be ... ? As far as I understand it, the American military will not tolerate the stuff being used in any of their equipment. How eminently sensible of them. Pity we haven't got the same courage of our convictions to stand up to the green mist brigade on this side of the pond ... Arfa Maybe after the Eurofighter fleet is grounded because of avionics failures linked to LF solder? Hope they don't use it to solder them Airbuses together :) So do I, my friend, as I am about to get on one for the first time in October. All of my previous cross-pond jaunts have been in properly built 747s, which have a proper yoke for the driver to hang on to, and 'automatics' that can be switched off. There's something fundamentally wrong about a plane that has to be flown with a left-handed joystick, and which employs a robot driver hidden away somewhere, which believes it knows more about how to fly a plane, than the human guy and his chum in the co-seat, who have 40 years flying experience between them ... :-\ Arfa |
Post mortem on an IEC connector
"Eeyore" wrote in message ... Adrian Tuddenham wrote: Arfa Daily wrote: "Adrian Tuddenham" wrote Eeyore wrote: The EU Commission should be strung by their necks from lamp-posts for being a bunch of technically ignorant ****s. Why do they think lead was used in solder in the first place ? For fun ? In the past I have many times agreed with your facts, but I have often disagreed with your way of expressing them. On this occasion I am with you all the way. Let's hope the first aeroplane to crash because of lead-free solder has only Brussels diplomats and anti-lead campaigners on board. As far as I know, at this point in time, the avionics industry still has an exemption from having to use the stuff. Now I wonder why that could be ... ? They may be exempt, but what might they do when they can't get the proper stuff any more because no manufacturer can afford to run two production lines for the same product simultaneously and daren't risk getting them muddled? Fair comment. Most of the semi manufacturers' output goes to normal commercial users who artifically 'need' lead free. 1) Set up special production lines. 2) Stop making avionics. 3) Change the rules and use lead-free. Believe it or not there is now a new industry re-plating component leads with Pb-Sn solder ! Graham Quite right too !! Arfa |
Post mortem on an IEC connector
Arfa Daily wrote in message
... "Meat Plow" wrote in message ... On Wed, 27 May 2009 14:10:55 +0100, "Arfa Daily" wrote: "Adrian Tuddenham" wrote in message news:1j0c3um.1l6pfnsuahyycN%adrian@poppyrecords. invalid.invalid... Arfa Daily wrote: "Adrian Tuddenham" wrote in message alid.invalid... Eeyore wrote: So do I, my friend, as I am about to get on one for the first time in October. All of my previous cross-pond jaunts have been in properly built 747s, which have a proper yoke for the driver to hang on to, and 'automatics' that can be switched off. There's something fundamentally wrong about a plane that has to be flown with a left-handed joystick, and which employs a robot driver hidden away somewhere, which believes it knows more about how to fly a plane, than the human guy and his chum in the co-seat, who have 40 years flying experience between them ... :-\ Arfa Fly by wire uses 3 hidden "driver" computers running 3 different bits of firmware, then a democratic voting system that decides which 2 drivers to go with, before making a control surface movement. Now we recently know, in the UK, what such a voting structure produces in the way of a parliament. -- Diverse Devices, Southampton, England electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list on http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/ |
Post mortem on an IEC connector
Eeyore wrote:
Arfa Daily wrote: To N.Cook The place that I got my research material from was Tin Technology Ltd with a website of www.lead-free.org The person that I spoke to at that body, pointed me to www.dti.gov.uk/sustainability/weee/index.htm I also spoke to a Dr Goodman at ERAT Technology Ltd That's Paul Goodman at ERA Technology. The final report is here. http://ec.europa.eu/environment/wast...nal_report.pdf The interesting bits are from page 73 onwards. Scary stuff! -- W . | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because \|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est ---^----^--------------------------------------------------------------- |
Post mortem on an IEC connector
Arfa Daily wrote:
"Adrian Tuddenham" wrote in message alid.invalid... Eeyore wrote: The EU Commission should be strung by their necks from lamp-posts for being a bunch of technically ignorant ****s. Why do they think lead was used in solder in the first place ? For fun ? In the past I have many times agreed with your facts, but I have often disagreed with your way of expressing them. On this occasion I am with you all the way. Let's hope the first aeroplane to crash because of lead-free solder has only Brussels diplomats and anti-lead campaigners on board. -- ~ Adrian Tuddenham ~ (Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply) www.poppyrecords.co.uk As far as I know, at this point in time, the avionics industry still has an exemption from having to use the stuff. Now I wonder why that could be ... ? Medical also. -- W . | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because \|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est ---^----^--------------------------------------------------------------- |
Post mortem on an IEC connector
"N_Cook" wrote in message ... Arfa Daily wrote in message ... "Meat Plow" wrote in message ... On Wed, 27 May 2009 14:10:55 +0100, "Arfa Daily" wrote: "Adrian Tuddenham" wrote in message news:1j0c3um.1l6pfnsuahyycN%adrian@poppyrecords. invalid.invalid... Arfa Daily wrote: "Adrian Tuddenham" wrote in message alid.invalid... Eeyore wrote: So do I, my friend, as I am about to get on one for the first time in October. All of my previous cross-pond jaunts have been in properly built 747s, which have a proper yoke for the driver to hang on to, and 'automatics' that can be switched off. There's something fundamentally wrong about a plane that has to be flown with a left-handed joystick, and which employs a robot driver hidden away somewhere, which believes it knows more about how to fly a plane, than the human guy and his chum in the co-seat, who have 40 years flying experience between them ... :-\ Arfa Fly by wire uses 3 hidden "driver" computers running 3 different bits of firmware, then a democratic voting system that decides which 2 drivers to go with, before making a control surface movement. Now we recently know, in the UK, what such a voting structure produces in the way of a parliament. -- Diverse Devices, Southampton, England electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list on http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/ Indeed we do, and there have been more than a few instances where true fly-by-wire sytems of this type, have made a totally wrong decision in a given unusual set of circumstances, and the driver and his chum have been blocked from taking control to correct the situation. I have to say that whilst I am not by any stretch of the imagination, a nervous flyer, I do have serious misgivings about these robot-flown new technology Airbuses. And as for that new double decker thing designed and built all over Europe by committee, nothing in the world would persuade me onto one. The size of that thing is just plain WRONG !! Arfa |
Post mortem on an IEC connector
"Meat Plow" wrote in message ... On Thu, 28 May 2009 01:52:41 +0100, "Arfa Daily" wrote: "Meat Plow" wrote in message ... On Wed, 27 May 2009 14:10:55 +0100, "Arfa Daily" wrote: "Adrian Tuddenham" wrote in message news:1j0c3um.1l6pfnsuahyycN%adrian@poppyrecord s.invalid.invalid... Arfa Daily wrote: "Adrian Tuddenham" wrote in message alid.invalid... Eeyore wrote: The EU Commission should be strung by their necks from lamp-posts for being a bunch of technically ignorant ****s. Why do they think lead was used in solder in the first place ? For fun ? In the past I have many times agreed with your facts, but I have often disagreed with your way of expressing them. On this occasion I am with you all the way. Let's hope the first aeroplane to crash because of lead-free solder has only Brussels diplomats and anti-lead campaigners on board. -- ~ Adrian Tuddenham ~ (Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply) www.poppyrecords.co.uk As far as I know, at this point in time, the avionics industry still has an exemption from having to use the stuff. Now I wonder why that could be ... ? They may be exempt, but what might they do when they can't get the proper stuff any more because no manufacturer can afford to run two production lines for the same product simultaneously and daren't risk getting them muddled? 1) Set up special production lines. 2) Stop making avionics. 3) Change the rules and use lead-free. -- ~ Adrian Tuddenham ~ (Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply) www.poppyrecords.co.uk There are no plans at the moment, from what I can gather, for manufacturers to stop producing leaded solder, nor for distributors to drop it. There is much 'legacy' equipment out there, which is manufactured in leaded solder, and should not, as a consequence, be repaired using lead-free solder, according to published wisdom from those who should know. There is no legal requirement to use lead-free for the purposes of effecting such repairs. As well as avionics, there are a number of other exemptions in important fields such as medical equipment, and some military areas. Again, I wonder why that could be ... ? As far as I understand it, the American military will not tolerate the stuff being used in any of their equipment. How eminently sensible of them. Pity we haven't got the same courage of our convictions to stand up to the green mist brigade on this side of the pond ... Arfa Maybe after the Eurofighter fleet is grounded because of avionics failures linked to LF solder? Hope they don't use it to solder them Airbuses together :) So do I, my friend, as I am about to get on one for the first time in October. All of my previous cross-pond jaunts have been in properly built 747s, which have a proper yoke for the driver to hang on to, and 'automatics' that can be switched off. There's something fundamentally wrong about a plane that has to be flown with a left-handed joystick, and which employs a robot driver hidden away somewhere, which believes it knows more about how to fly a plane, than the human guy and his chum in the co-seat, who have 40 years flying experience between them ... :-\ Arfa I've flown the A320 back and forth to Florida from here several times. A 2.5 hour trip. Except for the seating that seemed to be maximized for cramming as many passengers inside as possible it was a pleasant and quiet aircraft. Only scare was once landing in a 30 knot crosswind but the pilot got us down in one piece. I personally know a Ryan pilot who flies the Airbus line but now is training on the 767. He says Airbus is easy to fly and the computer system is reliable. So no worries mate :) Fly by wire is nothing new to aviation. Some of the best fighters could not fly without computers flying them as all are designed to be aerodynamically unstable to be highly maneuverable. The F/A 117 Stealth couldn't fly without triple redundant computers and 3 pitot tubes constantly sampling outside air dynamics to tell the computers what the aircraft is doing and to make minute corrections in fractional seconds. Yeah, you're right of course. I just don't like change. Only reason that I'm flying on one this time, is that I'm at war with Virgin about their loyalty points scheme, that won't allow me to use points to offset the cost of my fare, so I've booked with a different airline as a protest. Its an A330-300 that we're booked on. Seat pitch is a little better at 33" cattle class, than most of the seats on the 747-400, which are 31". There are a few at 33", but Virgin charge thirty quid each way extra for them. Width is a tad over 17", which is a bit tight on my lardy arse these days, but I guess we'll make it there. Mind you, the Airbus has only got one redundant engine. The 747 has got three ... Not so long back, they didn't allow two-engined planes to fly the 'straight' route across open Atlantic, did they ? Not gonna be in Florida in October are you ? Arfa |
Post mortem on an IEC connector
Yeah, you're right of course. I just don't like change. Only reason that I'm flying on one this time, is that I'm at war with Virgin about their loyalty points scheme, that won't allow me to use points to offset the cost of my fare, so I've booked with a different airline as a protest. Its an A330-300 that we're booked on. Seat pitch is a little better at 33" cattle class, than most of the seats on the 747-400, which are 31". There are a few at 33", but Virgin charge thirty quid each way extra for them. Width is a tad over 17", which is a bit tight on my lardy arse these days, but I guess we'll make it there. Mind you, the Airbus has only got one redundant engine. The 747 has got three ... Not so long back, they didn't allow two-engined planes to fly the 'straight' route across open Atlantic, did they ? Not gonna be in Florida in October are you ? Arfa 30 quid each way for a Trans-Atlantic flight doesn't seem like an exuberant overcharge for more comfort. The 330-300 is an ETOPS 180 wide-body jetliner and is fitted with two Rolls Trent motors most likely for Virgin, Emirates or Cathay but can be fitted with Pratt or GE or maybe CFMI. The 320 I rode around on had 2 CFMI motors and I have to say they were quiet and resonant-free. The reliability factor in these motors is why they are now allowed to fly with 2 instead of 4. You won't find much new design if any that use 4 motors except those that need the thrust like the 380. All that being said I wouldn't worry about it. Catastrophic motor failure is a rare event these days except if you're unfortunate enough to suck down a goose on takeoff or landing. Besides, doesn't Virgin offer a parachute/life raft combo for a few quid more each way :) As far as my being in FL in October goes, who knows? I have relatives and friends that live near Tampa and Boca Raton. Ok. Let me know if you do plan to be there. Maybe we can meet up. Get Michael down as well :-) Arfa |
Post mortem on an IEC connector
Arfa Daily wrote: "Meat Plow" wrote On Wed, 27 May 2009 14:10:55 +0100, "Arfa Daily" wrote: "Adrian Tuddenham" wrote Arfa Daily wrote: "Adrian Tuddenham" wrote Eeyore wrote: The EU Commission should be strung by their necks from lamp-posts for being a bunch of technically ignorant ****s. Why do they think lead was used in solder in the first place ? For fun ? In the past I have many times agreed with your facts, but I have often disagreed with your way of expressing them. On this occasion I am with you all the way. Let's hope the first aeroplane to crash because of lead-free solder has only Brussels diplomats and anti-lead campaigners on board. As far as I know, at this point in time, the avionics industry still has an exemption from having to use the stuff. Now I wonder why that could be ... ? They may be exempt, but what might they do when they can't get the proper stuff any more because no manufacturer can afford to run two production lines for the same product simultaneously and daren't risk getting them muddled? 1) Set up special production lines. 2) Stop making avionics. 3) Change the rules and use lead-free. There are no plans at the moment, from what I can gather, for manufacturers to stop producing leaded solder, nor for distributors to drop it. There is much 'legacy' equipment out there, which is manufactured in leaded solder, and should not, as a consequence, be repaired using lead-free solder, according to published wisdom from those who should know. There is no legal requirement to use lead-free for the purposes of effecting such repairs. As well as avionics, there are a number of other exemptions in important fields such as medical equipment, and some military areas. Again, I wonder why that could be ... ? As far as I understand it, the American military will not tolerate the stuff being used in any of their equipment. How eminently sensible of them. Pity we haven't got the same courage of our convictions to stand up to the green mist brigade on this side of the pond ... Maybe after the Eurofighter fleet is grounded because of avionics failures linked to LF solder? Hope they don't use it to solder them Airbuses together :) So do I, my friend, as I am about to get on one for the first time in October. All of my previous cross-pond jaunts have been in properly built 747s, which have a proper yoke for the driver to hang on to, and 'automatics' that can be switched off. There's something fundamentally wrong about a plane that has to be flown with a left-handed joystick, and which employs a robot driver hidden away somewhere, which believes it knows more about how to fly a plane, than the human guy and his chum in the co-seat, who have 40 years flying experience between them ... :-\ Shame that the most common cause of airliner accidents is still 'pilot error' ! Graham |
Post mortem on an IEC connector
Arfa Daily wrote: there have been more than a few instances where true fly-by-wire sytems of this type, have made a totally wrong decision in a given unusual set of circumstances, and the driver and his chum have been blocked from taking control to correct the situation. Can you give a specific example ? Graham |
Post mortem on an IEC connector
"Eeyore" wrote in message ... Arfa Daily wrote: there have been more than a few instances where true fly-by-wire sytems of this type, have made a totally wrong decision in a given unusual set of circumstances, and the driver and his chum have been blocked from taking control to correct the situation. Can you give a specific example ? Graham I'll get back to you on that. I remember seeing an example on "Air Crash Investigation", but I have a friend who is an aviator, and a walking encyclopedia on such things. I will be seeing him tomorrow. I'll try to remember to ask him. Arfa |
Post mortem on an IEC connector
"Eeyore" wrote in message ... Arfa Daily wrote: "Meat Plow" wrote On Wed, 27 May 2009 14:10:55 +0100, "Arfa Daily" wrote: "Adrian Tuddenham" wrote Arfa Daily wrote: "Adrian Tuddenham" wrote Eeyore wrote: The EU Commission should be strung by their necks from lamp-posts for being a bunch of technically ignorant ****s. Why do they think lead was used in solder in the first place ? For fun ? In the past I have many times agreed with your facts, but I have often disagreed with your way of expressing them. On this occasion I am with you all the way. Let's hope the first aeroplane to crash because of lead-free solder has only Brussels diplomats and anti-lead campaigners on board. As far as I know, at this point in time, the avionics industry still has an exemption from having to use the stuff. Now I wonder why that could be ... ? They may be exempt, but what might they do when they can't get the proper stuff any more because no manufacturer can afford to run two production lines for the same product simultaneously and daren't risk getting them muddled? 1) Set up special production lines. 2) Stop making avionics. 3) Change the rules and use lead-free. There are no plans at the moment, from what I can gather, for manufacturers to stop producing leaded solder, nor for distributors to drop it. There is much 'legacy' equipment out there, which is manufactured in leaded solder, and should not, as a consequence, be repaired using lead-free solder, according to published wisdom from those who should know. There is no legal requirement to use lead-free for the purposes of effecting such repairs. As well as avionics, there are a number of other exemptions in important fields such as medical equipment, and some military areas. Again, I wonder why that could be ... ? As far as I understand it, the American military will not tolerate the stuff being used in any of their equipment. How eminently sensible of them. Pity we haven't got the same courage of our convictions to stand up to the green mist brigade on this side of the pond ... Maybe after the Eurofighter fleet is grounded because of avionics failures linked to LF solder? Hope they don't use it to solder them Airbuses together :) So do I, my friend, as I am about to get on one for the first time in October. All of my previous cross-pond jaunts have been in properly built 747s, which have a proper yoke for the driver to hang on to, and 'automatics' that can be switched off. There's something fundamentally wrong about a plane that has to be flown with a left-handed joystick, and which employs a robot driver hidden away somewhere, which believes it knows more about how to fly a plane, than the human guy and his chum in the co-seat, who have 40 years flying experience between them ... :-\ Shame that the most common cause of airliner accidents is still 'pilot error' ! Graham Is that one a 'fact' or a guess ? Again, I'll ask my mate tomorrow if he knows any stats on that ... Arfa |
Post mortem on an IEC connector
Arfa Daily wrote in message
... "Eeyore" wrote in message ... Arfa Daily wrote: "Meat Plow" wrote On Wed, 27 May 2009 14:10:55 +0100, "Arfa Daily" wrote: Is that one a 'fact' or a guess ? Again, I'll ask my mate tomorrow if he knows any stats on that ... Arfa There was that French ? air show one, where the pilot quite gracefully, (no frantic movements appeared on control surfaces or engine speed) flew into woodland. -- Diverse Devices, Southampton, England electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list on http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/ |
Post mortem on an IEC connector
Arfa Daily wrote:
"Eeyore" wrote in message ... Arfa Daily wrote: there have been more than a few instances where true fly-by-wire sytems of this type, have made a totally wrong decision in a given unusual set of circumstances, and the driver and his chum have been blocked from taking control to correct the situation. Can you give a specific example ? Graham I'll get back to you on that. I remember seeing an example on "Air Crash Investigation", but I have a friend who is an aviator, and a walking encyclopedia on such things. I will be seeing him tomorrow. I'll try to remember to ask him. Interesting forum for those of an aviation bent. http://www.pprune.org/ Ron |
Post mortem on an IEC connector
Arfa Daily wrote: "Eeyore" wrote Shame that the most common cause of airliner accidents is still 'pilot error' ! Is that one a 'fact' or a guess ? Again, I'll ask my mate tomorrow if he knows any stats on that ... It IS a fact actually. Go to any of the professional aviation sites. You know than Spanair MD-82 ? that crashed in Barcelona on takeoff for example not long back ? Pilots forgot to deploy the flaps on take-off because they were in a hurry after a maintenance delay that COULD have alerted them to the problem ( WOG fault ). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanair_Flight_5022 That's a nice recent one. I could give you loads more. The Turkish one at Amsterdam, stalled into the ground ( called CFIT in the trade ) Controlled Flight Into Terrain. Pilots not monitoring instruments and flight attitude combined with an instrument fault ( pilots could EASILY have caught it - they had 45 seconds to avoid a stall ). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish...es_Flight_1951 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comair_Flight_5191 Pilots took the wrong runway ! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comair_Flight_3272 Total failure of pilots to actually FLY THE AIRPLANE ! Captain reacted to the stick pusher in EXACTLY the wrong way. And it goes on and on. Graham WOG = wheels on ground btw. due to the hugely increased level of spam please make the obvious adjustment to my email address |
Post mortem on an IEC connector
N_Cook wrote: There was that French ? air show one, where the pilot quite gracefully, (no frantic movements appeared on control surfaces or engine speed) flew into woodland. THAT ONE is highly controversial. Not least an apparent 'black box' swap to cover up possible technical faults. Incidentally, the 'graceful' crash coutesy of the automation meant very few lives were lost. NO further A320 was fitted with that specific model of engine. Graham -- due to the hugely increased level of spam please make the obvious adjustment to my email address |
Post mortem on an IEC connector
Meat Plow wrote: "Arfa Daily" wrote: "Eeyore" wrote in message Shame that the most common cause of airliner accidents is still 'pilot error' ! Is that one a 'fact' or a guess ? Again, I'll ask my mate tomorrow if he knows any stats on that ... Human error is unfortunately the most common factor in aviation mishaps. In the US the FAA doesn't permit idle cockpit chatter below 10k feet in commercial aircraft. We had a commuter go down not long ago (Dash 8-400) if memory serves and pilot error was a factor since the pilot and copilot were chatting about personal things instead of paying attention to icing conditions and doing things like turning on the deicing equipment and taking the Q400 off autopilot. They flew the damn thing into the ground after they lost control of it. That is indeed one I quoted. Pilot fatigue is now being increasingly seen as a contributor to pilot error esp in the USA where pilot pay is low and pilots commute long distances to work, thus making their day longer still. Terms and conditions of work can make a big difference. Qantas has never lost a single jet airframe for example. BA only lost ONE in its entire history in a mid-air accident caused by a negligent flight controller. I think that makes BA pretty much the safest airline to fly on overall numbers. And 'cultural norms' make a big difference. It's no surprise to me that Asian and African airlines have the worst accident rates. Graham -- due to the hugely increased level of spam please make the obvious adjustment to my email address |
Post mortem on an IEC connector
Arfa Daily wrote: Mind you, the Airbus has only got one redundant engine. That's why they have rules called ETOPS. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ETOPS Graham -- due to the hugely increased level of spam please make the obvious adjustment to my email address |
Post mortem on an IEC connector
Arfa Daily wrote: The 747 has got three ... Engines ? BA flew one from LAX to MAN on 3 engines, one having failed after take-off. The FAA didn't like it much and made a big fuss but concluded it was within the regs. Graham due to the hugely increased level of spam please make the obvious adjustment to my email address |
Post mortem on an IEC connector
"Eeyore" wrote in message ... Arfa Daily wrote: The 747 has got three ... Engines ? BA flew one from LAX to MAN on 3 engines, one having failed after take-off. The FAA didn't like it much and made a big fuss but concluded it was within the regs. Graham Three potentially *redundant* engines is what I said. The 747 is capable of still remaining airborne and controllable, with just one motor running, as far as I am aware. Arfa |
Post mortem on an IEC connector
Arfa Daily wrote: "Eeyore" wrote Arfa Daily wrote: The 747 has got three ... Engines ? BA flew one from LAX to MAN on 3 engines, one having failed after take-off. The FAA didn't like it much and made a big fuss but concluded it was within the regs. Graham Three potentially *redundant* engines is what I said. The 747 is capable of still remaining airborne and controllable, with just one motor running, as far as I am aware. TWO IIRC, A 747 will be descending on one, so the redundancy on twin engined airliners is pretty similar esp since they have more modern and reliable engines. Graham -- due to the hugely increased level of spam please make the obvious adjustment to my email address |
Post mortem on an IEC connector
"Eeyore" wrote in message ... Arfa Daily wrote: "Eeyore" wrote Arfa Daily wrote: The 747 has got three ... Engines ? BA flew one from LAX to MAN on 3 engines, one having failed after take-off. The FAA didn't like it much and made a big fuss but concluded it was within the regs. Graham Three potentially *redundant* engines is what I said. The 747 is capable of still remaining airborne and controllable, with just one motor running, as far as I am aware. TWO IIRC, A 747 will be descending on one, so the redundancy on twin engined airliners is pretty similar esp since they have more modern and reliable engines. Graham Whatever. Even if it needs two to maintain level flight, that's still two out of four, which leaves two that can be out, which is better than two going out on a two engined plane. I would still prefer to have just one out of four running, even if that did place the plane in a descent configuration. At least, coupled with the substantial glide characteristic, that descent is going to be very slow. As to how modern and reliable engines are, that doesn't really mean a lot if you have say multiple bird strikes. I spoke to my aviator friend yesterday about fly by wire incidents, and he says that he has read of many, although ones that have resulted in a large scale catastrophe, have been fairly rare. As to pilot error being "the biggest cause of accidents", he said that you should be careful how you interpret the numbers on this, with respect to other published causes. He agrees that many incidents are pilot related, but he also said that it is nothing like the TV program "Air Crash Investigation" where every crash gets resolved to a wrongly fitted bolt or whatever, and that many incidents never have a real cause determined. In these cases, apparently, it is normal to log the (probable) cause as 'pilot error'. He also said that just about all training accidents, of which there are apparently many, are logged as 'pilot error', so one way or another, this distorts the figures against the true situation. Arfa |
Post mortem on an IEC connector
"Meat Plow" wrote in message ... On Sat, 30 May 2009 20:42:31 +0100, Eeyore wrote: N_Cook wrote: There was that French ? air show one, where the pilot quite gracefully, (no frantic movements appeared on control surfaces or engine speed) flew into woodland. THAT ONE is highly controversial. Not least an apparent 'black box' swap to cover up possible technical faults. Incidentally, the 'graceful' crash coutesy of the automation meant very few lives were lost. NO further A320 was fitted with that specific model of engine. The A320 has been using the CFM56 powerplant since its been flying. Boeing uses a variation of it (different thrust) in their 737 stretch models. All are based on General Electric's military core high end compressors, combustion and turbine. CFMI makes 6 models all designated CFM56. I'm certain the original models probably the CFM56-A weren't scrapped but rather retrofitted with redesinged controls to allow quicker throttle up response at low altitude. After all the core of the engine was designed for the US B1 bomber and F-108 fighter so it wasn't a design flaw of the entire engine. You seem remarkably well versed in all this, Meat. Very informative info. Did you have a career background in it ? Arfa |
Post mortem on an IEC connector
"Eeyore" wrote in message ... Arfa Daily wrote: "Meat Plow" wrote On Wed, 27 May 2009 14:10:55 +0100, "Arfa Daily" wrote: "Adrian Tuddenham" wrote Arfa Daily wrote: "Adrian Tuddenham" wrote Eeyore wrote: The EU Commission should be strung by their necks from lamp-posts for being a bunch of technically ignorant ****s. Why do they think lead was used in solder in the first place ? For fun ? In the past I have many times agreed with your facts, but I have often disagreed with your way of expressing them. On this occasion I am with you all the way. Let's hope the first aeroplane to crash because of lead-free solder has only Brussels diplomats and anti-lead campaigners on board. As far as I know, at this point in time, the avionics industry still has an exemption from having to use the stuff. Now I wonder why that could be ... ? They may be exempt, but what might they do when they can't get the proper stuff any more because no manufacturer can afford to run two production lines for the same product simultaneously and daren't risk getting them muddled? 1) Set up special production lines. 2) Stop making avionics. 3) Change the rules and use lead-free. There are no plans at the moment, from what I can gather, for manufacturers to stop producing leaded solder, nor for distributors to drop it. There is much 'legacy' equipment out there, which is manufactured in leaded solder, and should not, as a consequence, be repaired using lead-free solder, according to published wisdom from those who should know. There is no legal requirement to use lead-free for the purposes of effecting such repairs. As well as avionics, there are a number of other exemptions in important fields such as medical equipment, and some military areas. Again, I wonder why that could be ... ? As far as I understand it, the American military will not tolerate the stuff being used in any of their equipment. How eminently sensible of them. Pity we haven't got the same courage of our convictions to stand up to the green mist brigade on this side of the pond ... Maybe after the Eurofighter fleet is grounded because of avionics failures linked to LF solder? Hope they don't use it to solder them Airbuses together :) So do I, my friend, as I am about to get on one for the first time in October. All of my previous cross-pond jaunts have been in properly built 747s, which have a proper yoke for the driver to hang on to, and 'automatics' that can be switched off. There's something fundamentally wrong about a plane that has to be flown with a left-handed joystick, and which employs a robot driver hidden away somewhere, which believes it knows more about how to fly a plane, than the human guy and his chum in the co-seat, who have 40 years flying experience between them ... :-\ Shame that the most common cause of airliner accidents is still 'pilot error' ! Graham Seems that today, an Air France Airbus A330 en route from Rio to Paris with 238 people on board, has gone down without warning over the Atlantic. Hard to see what the pilot might have done wrong with the thing at 38000 ft in the cruise ... Apparently, it disappeared off African trans-atlantic ATC radar, at around 3am, our time. This is not instilling a lot of confidence in me, regarding flying on one of these things in October, instead of my usual Boeing ... :-| Arfa |
Post mortem on an IEC connector
Arfa Daily wrote:
"Eeyore" wrote in message ... Arfa Daily wrote: "Meat Plow" wrote On Wed, 27 May 2009 14:10:55 +0100, "Arfa Daily" wrote: "Adrian Tuddenham" wrote Arfa Daily wrote: "Adrian Tuddenham" wrote Eeyore wrote: The EU Commission should be strung by their necks from lamp-posts for being a bunch of technically ignorant ****s. Why do they think lead was used in solder in the first place ? For fun ? In the past I have many times agreed with your facts, but I have often disagreed with your way of expressing them. On this occasion I am with you all the way. Let's hope the first aeroplane to crash because of lead-free solder has only Brussels diplomats and anti-lead campaigners on board. As far as I know, at this point in time, the avionics industry still has an exemption from having to use the stuff. Now I wonder why that could be ... ? They may be exempt, but what might they do when they can't get the proper stuff any more because no manufacturer can afford to run two production lines for the same product simultaneously and daren't risk getting them muddled? 1) Set up special production lines. 2) Stop making avionics. 3) Change the rules and use lead-free. There are no plans at the moment, from what I can gather, for manufacturers to stop producing leaded solder, nor for distributors to drop it. There is much 'legacy' equipment out there, which is manufactured in leaded solder, and should not, as a consequence, be repaired using lead-free solder, according to published wisdom from those who should know. There is no legal requirement to use lead-free for the purposes of effecting such repairs. As well as avionics, there are a number of other exemptions in important fields such as medical equipment, and some military areas. Again, I wonder why that could be ... ? As far as I understand it, the American military will not tolerate the stuff being used in any of their equipment. How eminently sensible of them. Pity we haven't got the same courage of our convictions to stand up to the green mist brigade on this side of the pond ... Maybe after the Eurofighter fleet is grounded because of avionics failures linked to LF solder? Hope they don't use it to solder them Airbuses together :) So do I, my friend, as I am about to get on one for the first time in October. All of my previous cross-pond jaunts have been in properly built 747s, which have a proper yoke for the driver to hang on to, and 'automatics' that can be switched off. There's something fundamentally wrong about a plane that has to be flown with a left-handed joystick, and which employs a robot driver hidden away somewhere, which believes it knows more about how to fly a plane, than the human guy and his chum in the co-seat, who have 40 years flying experience between them ... :-\ Shame that the most common cause of airliner accidents is still 'pilot error' ! Graham Seems that today, an Air France Airbus A330 en route from Rio to Paris with 238 people on board, has gone down without warning over the Atlantic. Hard to see what the pilot might have done wrong with the thing at 38000 ft in the cruise ... Apparently, it disappeared off African trans-atlantic ATC radar, at around 3am, our time. This is not instilling a lot of confidence in me, regarding flying on one of these things in October, instead of my usual Boeing ... :-| I`ve been following the chat on Pprune, but it would appear that the server is now overloaded. It seems like it flew into bad weather, there was some kind of elecrical problem reported shortly before all contact was lost. |
Post mortem on an IEC connector
"Ron" wrote in message ... Arfa Daily wrote: "Eeyore" wrote in message ... Arfa Daily wrote: "Meat Plow" wrote On Wed, 27 May 2009 14:10:55 +0100, "Arfa Daily" wrote: "Adrian Tuddenham" wrote Arfa Daily wrote: "Adrian Tuddenham" wrote Eeyore wrote: The EU Commission should be strung by their necks from lamp-posts for being a bunch of technically ignorant ****s. Why do they think lead was used in solder in the first place ? For fun ? In the past I have many times agreed with your facts, but I have often disagreed with your way of expressing them. On this occasion I am with you all the way. Let's hope the first aeroplane to crash because of lead-free solder has only Brussels diplomats and anti-lead campaigners on board. As far as I know, at this point in time, the avionics industry still has an exemption from having to use the stuff. Now I wonder why that could be ... ? They may be exempt, but what might they do when they can't get the proper stuff any more because no manufacturer can afford to run two production lines for the same product simultaneously and daren't risk getting them muddled? 1) Set up special production lines. 2) Stop making avionics. 3) Change the rules and use lead-free. There are no plans at the moment, from what I can gather, for manufacturers to stop producing leaded solder, nor for distributors to drop it. There is much 'legacy' equipment out there, which is manufactured in leaded solder, and should not, as a consequence, be repaired using lead-free solder, according to published wisdom from those who should know. There is no legal requirement to use lead-free for the purposes of effecting such repairs. As well as avionics, there are a number of other exemptions in important fields such as medical equipment, and some military areas. Again, I wonder why that could be ... ? As far as I understand it, the American military will not tolerate the stuff being used in any of their equipment. How eminently sensible of them. Pity we haven't got the same courage of our convictions to stand up to the green mist brigade on this side of the pond ... Maybe after the Eurofighter fleet is grounded because of avionics failures linked to LF solder? Hope they don't use it to solder them Airbuses together :) So do I, my friend, as I am about to get on one for the first time in October. All of my previous cross-pond jaunts have been in properly built 747s, which have a proper yoke for the driver to hang on to, and 'automatics' that can be switched off. There's something fundamentally wrong about a plane that has to be flown with a left-handed joystick, and which employs a robot driver hidden away somewhere, which believes it knows more about how to fly a plane, than the human guy and his chum in the co-seat, who have 40 years flying experience between them ... :-\ Shame that the most common cause of airliner accidents is still 'pilot error' ! Graham Seems that today, an Air France Airbus A330 en route from Rio to Paris with 238 people on board, has gone down without warning over the Atlantic. Hard to see what the pilot might have done wrong with the thing at 38000 ft in the cruise ... Apparently, it disappeared off African trans-atlantic ATC radar, at around 3am, our time. This is not instilling a lot of confidence in me, regarding flying on one of these things in October, instead of my usual Boeing ... :-| I`ve been following the chat on Pprune, but it would appear that the server is now overloaded. It seems like it flew into bad weather, there was some kind of elecrical problem reported shortly before all contact was lost. Yes, I too heard that it flew into a lightning storm, but as such weather patterns are common in many parts of the world, I would have thought that on a jet airliner specced for long haul operation, the electronics, avionics and general electrical systems, would have been hardened against any potential damage from lightning discharge ... ?? Arfa |
Post mortem on an IEC connector
Ron wrote in message
... Arfa Daily wrote: "Eeyore" wrote in message ... Arfa Daily wrote: "Meat Plow" wrote On Wed, 27 May 2009 14:10:55 +0100, "Arfa Daily" wrote: "Adrian Tuddenham" wrote Arfa Daily wrote: "Adrian Tuddenham" wrote Eeyore wrote: I`ve been following the chat on Pprune, but it would appear that the server is now overloaded. It seems like it flew into bad weather, there was some kind of elecrical problem reported shortly before all contact was lost. How do you make a Faraday cage out of GRP? without making it as heavy as the metal you are replacing. -- Diverse Devices, Southampton, England electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list on http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/ |
Post mortem on an IEC connector
-- -- N_Cook wrote in message ... Ron wrote in message ... Arfa Daily wrote: "Eeyore" wrote in message ... Arfa Daily wrote: "Meat Plow" wrote On Wed, 27 May 2009 14:10:55 +0100, "Arfa Daily" wrote: "Adrian Tuddenham" wrote Arfa Daily wrote: "Adrian Tuddenham" wrote Eeyore wrote: I`ve been following the chat on Pprune, but it would appear that the server is now overloaded. It seems like it flew into bad weather, there was some kind of elecrical problem reported shortly before all contact was lost. How do you make a Faraday cage out of GRP? without making it as heavy as the metal you are replacing. -- Diverse Devices, Southampton, England electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list on http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/ According to my paper , no Faraday cages these days. Apparently "static wicks", wires buried on the edges of wings and tail is supposed to do the job that an overall shell of aluminium used to do. -- Diverse Devices, Southampton, England electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list on http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/ |
Post mortem on an IEC connector
Seems that today, an Air France Airbus A330 en route from Rio to Paris with 238 people on board, has gone down without warning over the Atlantic. Hard to see what the pilot might have done wrong with the thing at 38000 ft in the cruise ... Apparently, it disappeared off African trans-atlantic ATC radar, at around 3am, our time. This is not instilling a lot of confidence in me, regarding flying on one of these things in October, instead of my usual Boeing ... :-| Electrical and turbulence problems reported. Aircraft was sending distress signals so it may have made a decent ditch. Air France's last air disaster was the Concorde in 2000. I've flown the 320-100 several times and the Mulhouse crash never entered my mind. We actually had a 5 hour delay one time after a hydraulic pump failed on the ground and had to be replaced. I wouldn't worry about the 330 considering the number of those things in the air at any given time and it's wonderful track record. Yeah, I know what you're saying. It just bothers me a little that on say a 747, the driver has got a triple redundancy control system which hydraulically links his yoke and pedals directly to the control surfaces, and a robot driver that can be thoroughly switched off, such that in an unusual set of circumstances, a quick-thinking and experienced guy sitting behind those controls, might be able to recover a potentially catastrophic situation by thinking outside the box, and doing something which maybe puts the airframe outside of the 'safe' envelope. From what I can understand of the FBW systems, they are never going to allow you to do this, and in the event of a total electrical systems collapse, your little joystick, and the computer(s) that it's connected to, are not going to be of any use to control the aircraft, anyway. My pilot friend rang me yesterday when all this was going down (honestly, no pun intended). He felt that there had to be more to it than just flying into a storm. He says that in general, if lightning hits an aluminium-bodied plane, it tends to pass around the outside, and re-discharge and carry on its way from the opposite side or wherever. He questioned whether the same would happen on a carbon composite bodied plane, as the A330 apparently is, or whether the higher electrical resistance of such a material, would cause the lightning to 'stick around' as it were, and just fry the internal systems, or even heat the material to the point where it just exploded. He reckons that unless there was an absolutely catastrophic failure of the airframe, a distress signal should have been able to be broadcast almost all the way down, as the last voice transmitter is battery powered to ensure that it can still operate, even in the event of a catastrophic electrical or systems failure. Sobering thoughts ... Arfa |
Post mortem on an IEC connector
N_Cook wrote:
-- -- N_Cook wrote in message ... Ron wrote in message ... Arfa Daily wrote: "Eeyore" wrote in message ... Arfa Daily wrote: "Meat Plow" wrote On Wed, 27 May 2009 14:10:55 +0100, "Arfa Daily" wrote: "Adrian Tuddenham" wrote Arfa Daily wrote: "Adrian Tuddenham" wrote Eeyore wrote: I`ve been following the chat on Pprune, but it would appear that the server is now overloaded. It seems like it flew into bad weather, there was some kind of elecrical problem reported shortly before all contact was lost. How do you make a Faraday cage out of GRP? without making it as heavy as the metal you are replacing. -- Diverse Devices, Southampton, England electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list on http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/ According to my paper , no Faraday cages these days. Apparently "static wicks", wires buried on the edges of wings and tail is supposed to do the job that an overall shell of aluminium used to do. It`s some kind of light wire mesh laminated into the CF. General chat on the PP forum would suggest that composite based airframes seem to attract lightning more than aluminium clad ones do. Ron(UK) |
Post mortem on an IEC connector
Arfa Daily wrote:
Seems that today, an Air France Airbus A330 en route from Rio to Paris with 238 people on board, has gone down without warning over the Atlantic. Hard to see what the pilot might have done wrong with the thing at 38000 ft in the cruise ... Apparently, it disappeared off African trans-atlantic ATC radar, at around 3am, our time. This is not instilling a lot of confidence in me, regarding flying on one of these things in October, instead of my usual Boeing ... :-| Electrical and turbulence problems reported. Aircraft was sending distress signals so it may have made a decent ditch. Air France's last air disaster was the Concorde in 2000. I've flown the 320-100 several times and the Mulhouse crash never entered my mind. We actually had a 5 hour delay one time after a hydraulic pump failed on the ground and had to be replaced. I wouldn't worry about the 330 considering the number of those things in the air at any given time and it's wonderful track record. Yeah, I know what you're saying. It just bothers me a little that on say a 747, the driver has got a triple redundancy control system which hydraulically links his yoke and pedals directly to the control surfaces, and a robot driver that can be thoroughly switched off, such that in an unusual set of circumstances, a quick-thinking and experienced guy sitting behind those controls, might be able to recover a potentially catastrophic situation by thinking outside the box, and doing something which maybe puts the airframe outside of the 'safe' envelope. From what I can understand of the FBW systems, they are never going to allow you to do this, and in the event of a total electrical systems collapse, your little joystick, and the computer(s) that it's connected to, are not going to be of any use to control the aircraft, anyway. My pilot friend rang me yesterday when all this was going down (honestly, no pun intended). He felt that there had to be more to it than just flying into a storm. He says that in general, if lightning hits an aluminium-bodied plane, it tends to pass around the outside, and re-discharge and carry on its way from the opposite side or wherever. He questioned whether the same would happen on a carbon composite bodied plane, as the A330 apparently is, or whether the higher electrical resistance of such a material, would cause the lightning to 'stick around' as it were, and just fry the internal systems, or even heat the material to the point where it just exploded. He reckons that unless there was an absolutely catastrophic failure of the airframe, a distress signal should have been able to be broadcast almost all the way down, as the last voice transmitter is battery powered to ensure that it can still operate, even in the event of a catastrophic electrical or systems failure. Sobering thoughts ... From reading the boards, it appears that, rather than flowing arond the outside of the aircraft, lightning is more inclined to punch holes right through composite skins, thereby getting into the metalwork and wiring. Ron(UK) |
Post mortem on an IEC connector
Ron wrote in message
... N_Cook wrote: -- -- N_Cook wrote in message ... Ron wrote in message ... Arfa Daily wrote: "Eeyore" wrote in message ... Arfa Daily wrote: "Meat Plow" wrote On Wed, 27 May 2009 14:10:55 +0100, "Arfa Daily" wrote: "Adrian Tuddenham" wrote Arfa Daily wrote: "Adrian Tuddenham" wrote Eeyore wrote: I`ve been following the chat on Pprune, but it would appear that the server is now overloaded. It seems like it flew into bad weather, there was some kind of elecrical problem reported shortly before all contact was lost. How do you make a Faraday cage out of GRP? without making it as heavy as the metal you are replacing. -- Diverse Devices, Southampton, England electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list on http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/ According to my paper , no Faraday cages these days. Apparently "static wicks", wires buried on the edges of wings and tail is supposed to do the job that an overall shell of aluminium used to do. It`s some kind of light wire mesh laminated into the CF. General chat on the PP forum would suggest that composite based airframes seem to attract lightning more than aluminium clad ones do. Ron(UK) Suely its not whether they attract, that is how lightning conductors work. But how easiily the current passes around the frame and out the other side, with as little ohmic heating on the way, to continue its cloud to cloud path. -- Diverse Devices, Southampton, England electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list on http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/ |
Post mortem on an IEC connector
"Ron" wrote in message ... Arfa Daily wrote: Seems that today, an Air France Airbus A330 en route from Rio to Paris with 238 people on board, has gone down without warning over the Atlantic. Hard to see what the pilot might have done wrong with the thing at 38000 ft in the cruise ... Apparently, it disappeared off African trans-atlantic ATC radar, at around 3am, our time. This is not instilling a lot of confidence in me, regarding flying on one of these things in October, instead of my usual Boeing ... :-| Electrical and turbulence problems reported. Aircraft was sending distress signals so it may have made a decent ditch. Air France's last air disaster was the Concorde in 2000. I've flown the 320-100 several times and the Mulhouse crash never entered my mind. We actually had a 5 hour delay one time after a hydraulic pump failed on the ground and had to be replaced. I wouldn't worry about the 330 considering the number of those things in the air at any given time and it's wonderful track record. Yeah, I know what you're saying. It just bothers me a little that on say a 747, the driver has got a triple redundancy control system which hydraulically links his yoke and pedals directly to the control surfaces, and a robot driver that can be thoroughly switched off, such that in an unusual set of circumstances, a quick-thinking and experienced guy sitting behind those controls, might be able to recover a potentially catastrophic situation by thinking outside the box, and doing something which maybe puts the airframe outside of the 'safe' envelope. From what I can understand of the FBW systems, they are never going to allow you to do this, and in the event of a total electrical systems collapse, your little joystick, and the computer(s) that it's connected to, are not going to be of any use to control the aircraft, anyway. My pilot friend rang me yesterday when all this was going down (honestly, no pun intended). He felt that there had to be more to it than just flying into a storm. He says that in general, if lightning hits an aluminium-bodied plane, it tends to pass around the outside, and re-discharge and carry on its way from the opposite side or wherever. He questioned whether the same would happen on a carbon composite bodied plane, as the A330 apparently is, or whether the higher electrical resistance of such a material, would cause the lightning to 'stick around' as it were, and just fry the internal systems, or even heat the material to the point where it just exploded. He reckons that unless there was an absolutely catastrophic failure of the airframe, a distress signal should have been able to be broadcast almost all the way down, as the last voice transmitter is battery powered to ensure that it can still operate, even in the event of a catastrophic electrical or systems failure. Sobering thoughts ... From reading the boards, it appears that, rather than flowing arond the outside of the aircraft, lightning is more inclined to punch holes right through composite skins, thereby getting into the metalwork and wiring. Ron(UK) So, perhaps not the best choice of material to make a long haul aircraft from, given that it is going to fly to areas of the world where thunderstorms are prevalent, and at cruising altitudes where it is well up amongst the crap, as it were. I have actually flown in and out of both Orlando and Las Vegas, with thunderstorms in the area, without giving them a second thought. But then that was in a nice 747 aluminium cigar tube ... If it is true that CC skins are not good in areas of electrical storm activity, I'm sure pilots regularly flying such planes, must be aware of this, so if the weather radar on this flight showed that he was heading into bad air and storms, I wonder why he didn't go around it, or see if it was possible to climb above the worst of it ? I understand that thunderheads can extend above the maximum ceiling of airliners, but I would have thought that there might have been a 'way through' between cells ? Fuel constraints maybe ? Looking on a map, the path from Rio to Paris looks awfully long for a plane of this size. BTW, is that Ron ex LVA ? If so, you haven't by any chance got a schematic set for a Warwick Sweet 25.1, have you ? Or anyone else reading this ? Warwick have refused to even acknowledge requests for assistance, let alone supply info. Arfa |
Post mortem on an IEC connector
In article ,
"Arfa Daily" wrote: As far as I understand it, the American military will not tolerate the stuff being used in any of their equipment. It's part of our plan to take over the world. Rather than stopping North Korea from building nukes, we're just going to make sure they're RoHS compliant. |
| All times are GMT +1. The time now is 02:35 PM. |
Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2014 DIYbanter