I must have lived a sheltered life because onmy Antex soldering iron I
have always used a standard chisel tip.

Recently I saw a lot of cheap soldering irons in the stores with a
conical tip. I can't think I'd ever want to use that shape but someone
must be doing so. What use does a concial tip have for
electrical/electronic work?

I must have lived a sheltered life because onmy Antex soldering iron
I have always used a standard chisel tip.

Recently I saw a lot of cheap soldering irons in the stores with a
conical tip. I can't think I'd ever want to use that shape but someone
must be doing so. What use does a concial tip have for
electrical/electronic work?

It's cheap to make.

Broadly speaking, a chisel tip delivers more heat to the joint you're
soldering, simply because it has a larger area.

In article ,
john wrote:
I must have lived a sheltered life because onmy Antex soldering iron I
have always used a standard chisel tip.

Antex do a vast variety of tips for different uses. The standard one is
just that - it should be ok for the most common things.

--
*If we weren't meant to eat animals, why are they made of meat?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"William Sommerwerck" wrote in
:

I must have lived a sheltered life because onmy Antex soldering iron
I have always used a standard chisel tip.

Recently I saw a lot of cheap soldering irons in the stores with a
conical tip. I can't think I'd ever want to use that shape but someone
must be doing so. What use does a concial tip have for
electrical/electronic work?

It's cheap to make.

Broadly speaking, a chisel tip delivers more heat to the joint you're
soldering, simply because it has a larger area.




I like a small conical tip for SMD work,on fine pitch parts.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

On Sat 14Mar 12:46, Dave Plowman wrote:
In article john wrote:


I must have lived a sheltered life because onmy Antex soldering
iron I have always used a standard chisel tip.

Antex do a vast variety of tips for different uses. The standard
one is just that - it should be ok for the most common things.



Yes, used the standard tip for many years.

The point asking about is this:

"Recently I saw a lot of cheap soldering irons in the stores with a
conical tip. I can't think I'd ever want to use that shape but someone
must be doing so. What use does a concial tip have for
electrical/electronic work?"

In article ,
john wrote:

I must have lived a sheltered life because onmy Antex soldering iron I
have always used a standard chisel tip.

Recently I saw a lot of cheap soldering irons in the stores with a
conical tip. I can't think I'd ever want to use that shape but someone
must be doing so. What use does a concial tip have for
electrical/electronic work?

In the not cheap realm ;-) I use a pointy conical tip (actually 1/64"
radius, IIRC) on a 60W TC iron for working on SMD boards - with
magnification, I can get in there and hit one pin on fine-pitched
packages. Still works fine on bigger components if lined up correctly,
so it's not a constant need to switch tips. Lots of power is available
if needed, but it doesn't cook.

As for the cheapies with no temperature control, I don't have anything
good to say about them. Junk is junk.

--
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by

john wrote:

I must have lived a sheltered life because onmy Antex soldering iron I
have always used a standard chisel tip.

Recently I saw a lot of cheap soldering irons in the stores with a
conical tip. I can't think I'd ever want to use that shape but someone
must be doing so. What use does a concial tip have for
electrical/electronic work?

I usually prefer my iron that has a chisel tip, because it is thermo-controlled, its handle is more
comfortable, and cord is more flexible (so stays out of my way). I use a different iron, that has a
conical tip, when space around the joint(s) is limited and the large, unused part of a chisel tip -
protruding out into space - could get too close to things I don't want to melt. Sometimes the point
of a chisel wants to roll off a joint (DEsoldering operation) and the conical tip provides easier
control. Quite a bit of your tip choice depends on preference, but, as another poster pointed out,
more tip in contact with the joint can put more heat into it.

---
Michael

On Sat, 14 Mar 2009 10:55:00 GMT, john wrote:

I must have lived a sheltered life because onmy Antex soldering iron I
have always used a standard chisel tip.

Recently I saw a lot of cheap soldering irons in the stores with a
conical tip. I can't think I'd ever want to use that shape but someone
must be doing so. What use does a concial tip have for
electrical/electronic work?
It has a lot to do with personal preference.

I started out with an Ungar soldering iron from my woodburning set.
That was a popular toy when I was 8 years old. One of the heating
elements had a very fine pointed tip. The iron ran very hot. It very
quickly rounded off the tip. I learned that by carrying a tiny blob of
solder that the heat transfer area was determined by the size of that
solder ball. With a pointed tip you can lean the iron any way that is
convenient. I find the chisel tip very awkward, especially for smt.

If more heat is needed you can lean the tip to gain more surface
contact. I am currently(usually) using the cheapest Weller pencil with
adjustable heat. It is a bit of over kill because I always run it at
max heat. My rule for soldering is prep, get in, get out, clean up.

I have an assortment of soldering irons because there is no such thing
as one that will do it all!

BTW, I was 8 years old 61 years ago.
John Ferrell W8CCW

"john" wrote in message
...
I must have lived a sheltered life because onmy Antex soldering iron I
have always used a standard chisel tip.

Recently I saw a lot of cheap soldering irons in the stores with a
conical tip. I can't think I'd ever want to use that shape but someone
must be doing so. What use does a concial tip have for
electrical/electronic work?

I think that to some extent, it's a case of what you get used to. The
'standard' 700 degree bit that most people use on the old Weller TCP
Magnastat irons - and bear in mind that for many years these were the
workhorse iron of the electronics industry, and are still to be found in
many workshops - is conical. I have always found that a conical tip is much
better on high density boards, as a flat or chisel tip can easily heat two
joints at once if you don't position it carefully. If you are soldering
under magnification, as is sometimes required with even fairly 'ordinary'
boards, I find that it is easier to see what you are doing, with a small
conical tip.

I don't find that I have any problem getting enough heat into joints with
this type of tip. If your iron is set for the right temperature for the
solder being used, it won't be a problem. If any joint won't flow
satisfactorily, then the iron that you're using is either not powerful
enough, or a conical tip simply isn't appropriate for that particular type
of joint. Those of us professionally involved in bench soldering, usually
keep two or even three irons, plus desoldering equipment, at the ready, and
just reach for the 'right' one for the job, without thinking about it.

Obviously, there's a lot of generalisations there, and for hobbyist or
occasional use, the 'traditional' or standard Antex-style chisel bit, is
probably the most versatile general-use type. One downside of conical tips,
is that the plating tends to fail fairly quickly, so they don't last as long
as chisel tips. We had quite a debate about this on here a few months back,
and we all pretty much agreed that the conical Weller TCP tips used to last
a lot longer than they do now. One interesting document came up in that
debate, which explained about the dreaded lead-free solder leaching iron
from the tip plating and accelerating wear which, when coupled with the more
aggressive fluxes used in this stuff, leads to much shorter tip life.

Arfa

In article ,
john wrote:
Antex do a vast variety of tips for different uses. The standard
one is just that - it should be ok for the most common things.



Yes, used the standard tip for many years.

The point asking about is this:

"Recently I saw a lot of cheap soldering irons in the stores with a
conical tip. I can't think I'd ever want to use that shape but someone
must be doing so. What use does a concial tip have for
electrical/electronic work?"

Fine work where the standard tip is too wide. I use one far more than the
standard Antex one. And that's with normal rather than SM components.

--
*Men are from Earth, women are from Earth. Deal with it.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

john wrote in news:Xns9BCE6F0D54C35451E7A@news-
3.octanews.net:

I must have lived a sheltered life because onmy Antex soldering iron I
have always used a standard chisel tip.

Recently I saw a lot of cheap soldering irons in the stores with a
conical tip. I can't think I'd ever want to use that shape but someone
must be doing so. What use does a concial tip have for
electrical/electronic work?


They're awesome for DIY surface mount parts. A bright light, a conical tip
and a temperature controlled iron do wonders, especially if you can get
0.27mm thick solder. What looks impossible becomes almost easy.

For what it's worth, some years back I tried a Weller TCP (Magnastat) iron. I
never looked at an Antex again. The TCP iron cost more, but I still have it
10 years later and although I can get spares for it I haven't had to yet. I
used to have to replace Antex irons far too often, it's a false economy.
Their elements are way too fragile.

Lostgallifreyan wrote in message
. ..
john wrote in news:Xns9BCE6F0D54C35451E7A@news-
3.octanews.net:

I must have lived a sheltered life because onmy Antex soldering iron I
have always used a standard chisel tip.

Recently I saw a lot of cheap soldering irons in the stores with a
conical tip. I can't think I'd ever want to use that shape but someone
must be doing so. What use does a concial tip have for
electrical/electronic work?


They're awesome for DIY surface mount parts. A bright light, a conical tip
and a temperature controlled iron do wonders, especially if you can get
0.27mm thick solder. What looks impossible becomes almost easy.

For what it's worth, some years back I tried a Weller TCP (Magnastat)
iron. I
never looked at an Antex again. The TCP iron cost more, but I still have
it
10 years later and although I can get spares for it I haven't had to yet.
I
used to have to replace Antex irons far too often, it's a false economy.
Their elements are way too fragile.

Ditto, recommend magnastat, and conical tips.
I rarely need to use very fine solder, and when I do, I flatten some 1 mm
solder in a "set of rolls" and then slice the flattened solder with a razor
blade for an odd inch or so of 1/3mm or so solder.


--
Diverse Devices, Southampton, England
electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list on
http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/

In article ,
Lostgallifreyan wrote:
For what it's worth, some years back I tried a Weller TCP (Magnastat)
iron. I never looked at an Antex again. The TCP iron cost more, but I
still have it 10 years later and although I can get spares for it I
haven't had to yet. I used to have to replace Antex irons far too
often, it's a false economy. Their elements are way too fragile.

I get on average about 5 years out of my Antex elements. But I've used XSD
units on my home made solder station. Other types might be worse. I like
Antex because for me it's by far the most comfortable design to operate.
Anything else I try seems clunky by comparison.

--
*A plateau is a high form of flattery*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
N_Cook wrote:
I rarely need to use very fine solder, and when I do, I flatten some 1
mm solder in a "set of rolls" and then slice the flattened solder with a
razor blade for an odd inch or so of 1/3mm or so solder.

I've got a home made dispenser with five rolls of the common sizes. And
two reels of each in stock for when they run out. Bought when I thought
leaded might become unavailable. ;-)

--
*'Progress' and 'Change' are not synonyms.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

msg wrote:

N_Cook wrote:

snip
I rarely need to use very fine solder, and when I do, I flatten some 1 mm
solder in a "set of rolls" and then slice the flattened solder with a razor
blade for an odd inch or so of 1/3mm or so solder.

What is a "set of rolls" (denizen of the U.S. FWIW)? I need to find a sort
of small mangle (compressed hardened rollers) to "de-husk" raw oats a little
at a time. Any ideas?


You can find nice steel rollers, bearings and brackets in old office
copiers. They are usually gear driven, along with all the rubber rollers
in the paper path. the AC motor used to feed the paper should be heavy
enough for your oats, and the tension is adjustable by backing off the
tension on the pair of springs.

Some are small diameter, but the larger, higher speed copiers tend to
be larger. I have a couple old copiers to scrap, to build a wire
stripper for scrap copper electrical wire. A guard with different size
holes will be put over the feed side, and the wire with the crushed
insulation will come out the other side. Another shaft will have a pair
of hooked pins to wrap the scrap insulation around, to separate it in
one pass. When the hooks are full, you slip a big knife between them and
cut it (over the trash can).

--
http://improve-usenet.org/index.html

Goggle Groups, and Web TV users must request to be white listed, or I
will not see your messages.

If you have broadband, your ISP may have a NNTP news server included in
your account: http://www.usenettools.net/ISP.htm

N_Cook wrote:

snip
I rarely need to use very fine solder, and when I do, I flatten some 1 mm
solder in a "set of rolls" and then slice the flattened solder with a razor
blade for an odd inch or so of 1/3mm or so solder.

What is a "set of rolls" (denizen of the U.S. FWIW)? I need to find a sort
of small mangle (compressed hardened rollers) to "de-husk" raw oats a little
at a time. Any ideas?

Thanks,

Michael

msg wrote in message
ernet...
N_Cook wrote:

snip
I rarely need to use very fine solder, and when I do, I flatten some 1
mm
solder in a "set of rolls" and then slice the flattened solder with a
razor
blade for an odd inch or so of 1/3mm or so solder.

What is a "set of rolls" (denizen of the U.S. FWIW)? I need to find a sort
of small mangle (compressed hardened rollers) to "de-husk" raw oats a
little
at a time. Any ideas?

Thanks,

Michael

For my translator file
http://www.divdev.fsnet.co.uk/tool_terms.htm
What are "set of rolls" called in USA ?
A proper engineering set pic here
http://www.homeandworkshop.co.uk/891489.jpg
minus handle it seems

I recently bought one of these , not for pasta,
http://www.verynice2.com/images/prod/PASTA-590.jpg
but for the 2 sets of intermeshed roller "guillotine" cutters for cutting
bicycle and motor bike inner-tube down to neat strips for rubber drive band
making (then standard "bean slicing" to cut them down narrower). 2mm ones at
top of pic ( although 4mm for cutting rubber for some odd reason) and 6.5mm
below.
You can only neatly bean slice once you have neat parallel sided strips of
rubber

I've not tried the plain rolls section of the pasta m/c but it is all metal
construction and a neat hidden innternal mechanism, I've not thought how it
works, for varying the gap in 10 lock-down steps and still allow
contra-rotation of the steel rolls.
Overall quite heavy , beefier than needed for pasta anyway. For thick rubber
use the make/break joint between the 2 main sections, is too weak. You have
to swap the handle between sections, and for this use mount the slicing
section in a vice or something.
If I can find something like oats I will try it.

Otherwise for solder (tighter sub-mm gap) this is my set of homemade set of
rolls on my tips file
http://www.divdev.fsnet.co.uk/tips3.htm


--
Diverse Devices, Southampton, England
electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list on
http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/

msg wrote in message
ernet...
N_Cook wrote:

snip
I rarely need to use very fine solder, and when I do, I flatten some 1
mm
solder in a "set of rolls" and then slice the flattened solder with a
razor
blade for an odd inch or so of 1/3mm or so solder.

What is a "set of rolls" (denizen of the U.S. FWIW)? I need to find a sort
of small mangle (compressed hardened rollers) to "de-husk" raw oats a
little
at a time. Any ideas?

Thanks,

Michael


No cereals, pulses or dried beans , so tried some dried cloves which is
probably more of a test. 5 crushed cloves and 5 whole for comparison.
Required stepped repeated crushing , at setting 9,6,3 and then 1 but oats
would probably go through in one.

http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:gra...net/cloves.jpg

Over engineered for damp pasta.



--
Diverse Devices, Southampton, England
electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list on
http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/

Michael A. Terrell wrote:

msg wrote:

N_Cook wrote:

snip

I rarely need to use very fine solder, and when I do, I flatten some 1 mm
solder in a "set of rolls" and then slice the flattened solder with a razor
blade for an odd inch or so of 1/3mm or so solder.

What is a "set of rolls" (denizen of the U.S. FWIW)? I need to find a sort
of small mangle (compressed hardened rollers) to "de-husk" raw oats a little
at a time. Any ideas?



You can find nice steel rollers, bearings and brackets in old office
copiers. They are usually gear driven, along with all the rubber rollers
in the paper path. the AC motor used to feed the paper should be heavy
enough for your oats, and the tension is adjustable by backing off the
tension on the pair of springs.

I used to have a room full of midrange Xerox copiers but alas they are long
gone; a local business had a similar room until the fire marshall ordered
a cleaning and they too are now gone. I still have one big Sharp copier
that uses a pink "master" which may have goodies, but I don't remember seeing
paired steel rollers under tension. What brand and model copier are you
using for this?

Some are small diameter, but the larger, higher speed copiers tend to
be larger. I have a couple old copiers to scrap, to build a wire
stripper for scrap copper electrical wire. A guard with different size
holes will be put over the feed side, and the wire with the crushed
insulation will come out the other side. Another shaft will have a pair
of hooked pins to wrap the scrap insulation around, to separate it in
one pass. When the hooks are full, you slip a big knife between them and
cut it (over the trash can).


Please post a link to pics of this when it is ready.

Michael

N_Cook wrote:

msg wrote

I need to find a sort of small mangle (compressed hardened rollers)
to "de-husk" raw oats a little at a time. Any ideas?


No cereals, pulses or dried beans , so tried some dried cloves which is
probably more of a test. 5 crushed cloves and 5 whole for comparison.
Required stepped repeated crushing , at setting 9,6,3 and then 1 but oats
would probably go through in one.

http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:gra...net/cloves.jpg

Over engineered for damp pasta.

Hmm, I assume that you installed the flat rollers in that pasta mill
and if so, that is promising. There was a similar pasta mill at one of our
local Goodwill stores (second-hand donated stuff) but it only had a helical
ridged roller set and the gap was not adjustable and was too wide for the
oats to be crushed (rolled, as they say).

What did your pasta machine cost you and did you purchase it locally or
online?

Michael

In article ,
john wrote:

I must have lived a sheltered life because onmy Antex soldering iron I
have always used a standard chisel tip.

Recently I saw a lot of cheap soldering irons in the stores with a
conical tip. I can't think I'd ever want to use that shape but someone
must be doing so. What use does a concial tip have for
electrical/electronic work?

We've used conical tips almost exclusively in 25 years of production
soldering. The biggest advantage to conical over spade in that
environment is speed: You don't have to think about tip rotational
orientation.

On Sat, 14 Mar 2009 18:44:14 -0600, msg wrote:

N_Cook wrote:

snip
I rarely need to use very fine solder, and when I do, I flatten some 1 mm
solder in a "set of rolls" and then slice the flattened solder with a razor
blade for an odd inch or so of 1/3mm or so solder.

What is a "set of rolls" (denizen of the U.S. FWIW)? I need to find a sort
of small mangle (compressed hardened rollers) to "de-husk" raw oats a little
at a time. Any ideas?

Thanks,

Michael

In this case "a set of rolls" means a group of solder spools mounted
for convenient work access.

Try looking on homebrew suppliers for a roller mill.

"JosephKK" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 14 Mar 2009 18:44:14 -0600, msg wrote:

N_Cook wrote:

snip
I rarely need to use very fine solder, and when I do, I flatten some 1
mm
solder in a "set of rolls" and then slice the flattened solder with a
razor
blade for an odd inch or so of 1/3mm or so solder.

What is a "set of rolls" (denizen of the U.S. FWIW)? I need to find a sort
of small mangle (compressed hardened rollers) to "de-husk" raw oats a
little
at a time. Any ideas?

Thanks,

Michael

In this case "a set of rolls" means a group of solder spools mounted
for convenient work access.

I'm not at all sure that is the case ...

Arfa