I wanna know if I can hot wire my scooter battery to a regular
12v/60w soldering iron to do local soldering repairs without going to the
other fuel/chemical bonding methods for safety ????

I know most soldering kits, you buy or build, usually require a
standard wall socket 120v/60w soldering iron and some 4AA batteries....

So I was wondering what would happen if I used a 12volt SLA 8 amp
battery, since the wall outlet is a about 90watts and the 12volt SLA battery
is also some 96 watts although it drops quickly to an easy 11 volts because
of a burned cell I'm guessing....

The math is there but some other factor is missing, I can't see the
power of a 12volt SLA battery to a mere 4 AAs ...........has anybody ever
tried this with a regular soldering iron for outdoor use???
--
Triad Productions-Fantalla®~EZine~ParaNovel
National Association of Assault Research
(http://tarbitch.balder.prohosting.com/htmlconc. html)

In article , wrote:


I wanna know if I can hot wire my scooter battery to a regular
12v/60w soldering iron to do local soldering repairs without going to the
other fuel/chemical bonding methods for safety ????

I know most soldering kits, you buy or build, usually require a
standard wall socket 120v/60w soldering iron and some 4AA batteries....

So I was wondering what would happen if I used a 12volt SLA 8 amp
battery, since the wall outlet is a about 90watts and the 12volt SLA battery
is also some 96 watts although it drops quickly to an easy 11 volts because
of a burned cell I'm guessing....

The math is there but some other factor is missing, I can't see the
power of a 12volt SLA battery to a mere 4 AAs ...........has anybody ever
tried this with a regular soldering iron for outdoor use???
Why not just buy a 12v soldering iron?

In article ,
Bob wrote:


I wanna know if I can hot wire my scooter battery to a regular 12v/60w
soldering iron to do local soldering repairs without going to the other
fuel/chemical bonding methods for safety ????

I know most soldering kits, you buy or build, usually require a
standard wall socket 120v/60w soldering iron and some 4AA batteries....

Eh? Loads of 12 volt soldering irons on the market. Here's one:-

http://store.voltelectronics.com.au/...e ring%20Iron

If the scooter is 12 volts the simple way would be to fit a car accessory
socket which the iron plug will fit. But make sure it has a suitable fuse
close to where you wire it into the scooter wiring or battery.

So I was wondering what would happen if I used a 12volt SLA 8 amp
battery, since the wall outlet is a about 90watts and the 12volt SLA
battery is also some 96 watts although it drops quickly to an easy 11
volts because of a burned cell I'm guessing....

The math is there but some other factor is missing, I can't see the
power of a 12volt SLA battery to a mere 4 AAs ...........has anybody
ever tried this with a regular soldering iron for outdoor use???

Bit difficult to to actually guess what you mean but I'll have a go.

Is the scooter 12 volts? Does it use a SLA battery? Or a sealed car type
one? Because the type of charger needed for true SLA is different from
'sealed' types, and using a charger for the latter will likely fry a true
SLA.

BTW - batteries aren't measure in watts but amp hours. They might also
give a maximum load in amps.

--
*Speak softly and carry a cellular phone *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Feb 9, 5:07*am, Bob wrote:
* * * * I wanna know if I can hot wire my scooter battery to a regular
12v/60w soldering iron to do local soldering repairs

Why not? No more current will pass through the heating coil than the
resistance of said coil allows to pass.

If you're worried about damaging the soldering iron, put a 10 amp fuse
in the input wiring. 10 amps should be twice the normal maximum
current draw of the 12 volt iron. (1)

* * * * I know most soldering kits, you buy or build, usually require a
standard wall socket 120v/60w soldering iron and some 4AA batteries....

The AA batteries would provide half an amp of current to the heating
coil of the soldering iron, but wouldn't have the ampere hour capacity
to keep supplying the
1/2 an amp the iron draws.

* * * * So I was wondering what would happen if I used a 12volt SLA 8 amp
battery, since the wall outlet is a about 90watts

If your wall outlet has a 30 amp breaker or fuse, it will supply 3600
watts, not 90 watts.

and the 12volt SLA battery
is also some 96 watts although it drops quickly to an easy 11 volts because
of a burned cell I'm guessing....

Your battery may be old and could be dehydrated or has sulfated
plates.

Your fully charged 8 ampere hour battery should provide 8 amperes to a
load for
one hour without the voltage dropping below 12 volts. If it quickly
drops to 11 volts under load, it's not fully charged.

The resting voltage of a fully charged SLA battery half an hour after
charging should be 12.8 volts.

You can find battery state of charge charts online which will tell you
what the state of charge of a lead acid battery is, according to
resting voltage.

* * * * The math is there but some other factor is missing, I can't see the
power of a 12volt SLA battery to a mere 4 AAs ...........

The missing factor in your understanding seems to be the concept of
*ampere hour capacity*.

has anybody ever
tried this with a regular soldering iron for outdoor use???

No, I never tried that, but...

Work out the Ohm's law for your 120 volt soldering iron, or measure
the resistance of the coil and you'll see how many amps it draws from
a 12 volt battery.

The heating coil doesn't know what the source of power is, it just
heats up according to the current it receives.

(1) You might want to research the coefficient of resistance of
nichrome wire to see what the resistance is when the wire gets hot
enough to melt solder.

"Bob" wrote

I wanna know if I can hot wire my scooter battery to a regular
12v/60w soldering iron to do local soldering repairs

Yes. You should have stopped right there........

without going to the
other fuel/chemical bonding methods for safety ????

.......as the rest of your post pretty much makes no sense.

Also, for about $5 from Harbor Freight or JC Whitney or similar you can get
a pencil size butane torch.

On 9 Feb, 13:07, Bob wrote:
* * * * I wanna know if I can hot wire my scooter battery to a regular
12v/60w soldering iron to do local soldering repairs

I really wouldn't. A scooter battery is so small it'll flatten quickly
(unless you keep it attached to a charger while soldering). Just buy a
proper mains current soldering iron. It's not like they're expensive.

That's the simple answer.

"Who Me?" wrote in message
...

"Bob" wrote

I wanna know if I can hot wire my scooter battery to a regular
12v/60w soldering iron to do local soldering repairs

Yes. You should have stopped right there........

without going to the
other fuel/chemical bonding methods for safety ????

......as the rest of your post pretty much makes no sense.

Also, for about $5 from Harbor Freight or JC Whitney or similar you can
get a pencil size butane torch.


The pencil size butane torch I have works very well - unfortunately the
catalysing solder tip that came with it is about as much use as a chocolate
teapot!

"ian field" wrote

The pencil size butane torch I have works very well - unfortunately the
catalysing solder tip that came with it is about as much use as a
chocolate
teapot!


OK, so we are left with two options:
1) Practice soldering with a bare butane flame. The pencil torches can be
adjusted (after a short warm-up) to a flame small enough to do the
job.......but that IS an acquired skill.
OR
2) Spend a few extra bucks and get a "real" butane soldering pencil. I have
one and it works very good......."catalyzing" tip and all!

On Feb 9, 3:06*pm, "Who Me?" wrote:

OK, so we are left with two options:
1) Practice soldering with a bare butane flame. The pencil torches can be
adjusted (after a short warm-up) to a flame small enough to do the
job.......but that IS an acquired skill.

When I was working for Hughes Aircraft Company on prototype
electromechanical systems back in the late 1960's, one lab had a neat
little gadget called a "water welder".

It somehow used electricity to generate a flammable gas that came out
of the tiniest hole in the tip and I could use that flame to solder
sheet brass into compartmented prototype electronic chasses...

I'm not familiar with the device, but the description given of "water
welder" would imply the gas might be H2 (Hydrogen) which is indeed highly
flammable! Simple electrolysis of water (H2O) with an electric current
would produce both hydrogen and oxygen for combustion. The trick would be
in controlling the combustion process and in dealing with the resulting
byproduct water that was produced.

Bob

"." wrote in message
...
On Feb 9, 3:06 pm, "Who Me?" wrote:

OK, so we are left with two options:
1) Practice soldering with a bare butane flame. The pencil torches can be
adjusted (after a short warm-up) to a flame small enough to do the
job.......but that IS an acquired skill.

When I was working for Hughes Aircraft Company on prototype
electromechanical systems back in the late 1960's, one lab had a neat
little gadget called a "water welder".

It somehow used electricity to generate a flammable gas that came out
of the tiniest hole in the tip and I could use that flame to solder
sheet brass into compartmented prototype electronic chasses...

"." wrote

When I was working for Hughes Aircraft Company on prototype
electromechanical systems back in the late 1960's, one lab had a neat
little gadget called a "water welder".

Aw hell. Now that's just downright disappointing.
I thought for sure you would tell us about the job you had when you INVENTED
fire.
;-)

On Feb 9, 5:48*pm, "Who Me?" wrote:

Aw hell. *Now that's just downright disappointing.
I thought for sure you would tell us about the job you had when you INVENTED
fire.

You're confused. The job title of my ancestor who discovered fire was
"Cave Bear Killer"... ;-)

"Bob" wrote in message
...


I wanna know if I can hot wire my scooter battery to a regular
12v/60w soldering iron to do local soldering repairs without going to the
other fuel/chemical bonding methods for safety ????

I know most soldering kits, you buy or build, usually require a
standard wall socket 120v/60w soldering iron and some 4AA batteries....

So I was wondering what would happen if I used a 12volt SLA 8 amp
battery, since the wall outlet is a about 90watts and the 12volt SLA
battery
is also some 96 watts although it drops quickly to an easy 11 volts
because
of a burned cell I'm guessing....

The math is there but some other factor is missing, I can't see the
power of a 12volt SLA battery to a mere 4 AAs ...........has anybody ever
tried this with a regular soldering iron for outdoor use???
--
Triad Productions-Fantalla®~EZine~ParaNovel
National Association of Assault Research
(http://tarbitch.balder.prohosting.com/htmlconc. html)



http://www.portasol.com/solderirons.html
I have one that's 20 years old and still works.
Paul aka Sporty


"Our groundbreaking product the Portasol 'Technic' was the first pocket
portable, butane powered, soldering iron. Standard issue in countless
service companies the Technic combines compact power and convenient
reliability. Adjustable from 10 to 60 watts equivalent power, the Technic
features 10-second refill, auto switch off, built-in ignitor and excellent
build quality. Accessories include a range of tips including a hot knife tip
for nylon rope and polymer cutting."

On Mon, 09 Feb 2009 19:33:50 GMT, paul c wrote:

|Mark Olson wrote:
|...
| I was going to disagree but having thought about it I must agree.
| Under what circumstances would you need to *solder* anything on
| a bike or scooter, that couldn't wait until you reach someplace
| with mains power? ...
|
|I know Bob and if he's still living in that colourful part of town I remember, he must do his own maintenance on the street without access to household power. (Heh, heh, I'm lucky, relatively speaking, my trailer has a power outlet, only problem is in winter when I have to remember to turn off various appliances inside because of the whopping 30 amp service in the park!)


Thanx for all the input, but I came to the conclusion that I would
rather not risk "toasting" my soldering iron....one calculative post said
it would... in Message-ID:

The fact being that it is not absolutely necessary like an emergency
(when losing an iron would mean nothing).....although it may be a practical
emergency application, but who is going to tote a soldering iron around
under the already filled under seat scooter storage space.

I can get the bike to mains in my other place, but my parking place
has no electrical conveniences....

I needed to solder some 20 gauge wiring to those fine little piezo
speaker/siren/buzzer wires.


--
Triad Productions-Fantalla®~EZine~ParaNovel
National Association of Assault Research
(http://tarbitch.balder.prohosting.com/htmlconc. html)

On Feb 9, 6:07*am, Bob wrote:
* * * * I wanna know if I can hot wire my scooter battery to a regular
12v/60w soldering iron to do local soldering repairs without going to the
other fuel/chemical bonding methods for safety ????

Why bother? Buy a butane powered soldering iron and be done with it.

--
Keith

On Wed, 11 Feb 2009 21:37:53 -0800 (PST), "S'mee"
wrote:

|On Feb 9, 6:07*am, Bob wrote:
| * * * * I wanna know if I can hot wire my scooter battery to a regular
| 12v/60w soldering iron to do local soldering repairs without going to the
| other fuel/chemical bonding methods for safety ????
|
|Why bother? Buy a butane powered soldering iron and be done with it.

Sounds good, if you plan on burning all the plastic around the
soldering area I'm considering with wind included...pretty messy
sometimes..

Maybe I'll go rob a crack head for his butane lighter for all the
use I would need it for on this crampy plastic application....

In article ,
R. LaCasse wrote:
|Why bother? Buy a butane powered soldering iron and be done with it.

Sounds good, if you plan on burning all the plastic around the
soldering area I'm considering with wind included...pretty messy
sometimes..

Wind is a problem with an electric soldering iron too.

Maybe I'll go rob a crack head for his butane lighter for all the
use I would need it for on this crampy plastic application....

--
*The problem with the world is that everyone is a few drinks behind *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"R. LaCasse" wrote

|Why bother? Buy a butane powered soldering iron and be done with it.


I think I suggested that about a week ago!

Sounds good, if you plan on burning all the plastic around the
soldering area I'm considering with wind included...pretty messy
sometimes..


Not if you use your brain just a TINY bit.

You fire it up, let it heat to the proper useable temperature and the SHUT
THE FLAME OFF before you get near the plastic parts. Should be good for one
or two joints before the wind cools it off too much.
OR
The little catalytic flame only blows in one direction; once you figure that
out, you should be able to point it AWAY from the meltable parts........and
once it is up to temp. and you turn the "flame" down to a maintenance level,
there isn't that much heat coming out anyway.
OR
You could continue to whine over nothing.

"Who Me?" wrote in message
...

"R. LaCasse" wrote

|Why bother? Buy a butane powered soldering iron and be done with it.


I think I suggested that about a week ago!

Sounds good, if you plan on burning all the plastic around the
soldering area I'm considering with wind included...pretty messy
sometimes..


Not if you use your brain just a TINY bit.

You fire it up, let it heat to the proper useable temperature and the SHUT
THE FLAME OFF before you get near the plastic parts. Should be good for
one or two joints before the wind cools it off too much.
OR
The little catalytic flame only blows in one direction; once you figure
that out, you should be able to point it AWAY from the meltable
parts........and once it is up to temp. and you turn the "flame" down to a
maintenance level, there isn't that much heat coming out anyway.
OR
You could continue to whine over nothing.




The Portasol is very controllable, I never melted anything other than solder
with it.
All you need is some soldering skills and some common sense when using it.

"Paul aka Sporty" wrote in message
...


"Who Me?" wrote in message
...

"R. LaCasse" wrote

|Why bother? Buy a butane powered soldering iron and be done with it.


I think I suggested that about a week ago!

Sounds good, if you plan on burning all the plastic around the
soldering area I'm considering with wind included...pretty messy
sometimes..


Not if you use your brain just a TINY bit.

You fire it up, let it heat to the proper useable temperature and the
SHUT THE FLAME OFF before you get near the plastic parts. Should be good
for one or two joints before the wind cools it off too much.
OR
The little catalytic flame only blows in one direction; once you figure
that out, you should be able to point it AWAY from the meltable
parts........and once it is up to temp. and you turn the "flame" down to
a maintenance level, there isn't that much heat coming out anyway.
OR
You could continue to whine over nothing.




The Portasol is very controllable, I never melted anything other than
solder with it.
All you need is some soldering skills and some common sense when using it.

A good flux is often handy too.

The strands in vehicle wiring are rarely tin plated and usually oxidised,
the flux in cored solder just makes a mess so I keep a tub of active
plumbers flux ready to hand.

Someone else mentioned the risk of vibration to soldered joints - heat
shrink sleeve reduces this risk significantly.

ian field wrote:
A good flux is often handy too.

The strands in vehicle wiring are rarely tin plated and usually oxidised,
the flux in cored solder just makes a mess so I keep a tub of active
plumbers flux ready to hand.

Someone else mentioned the risk of vibration to soldered joints - heat
shrink sleeve reduces this risk significantly.


Very BAD idea. Plumbers flux is acid based and that is not what you want
on wires.

Ian Singer
--


================================================== =======================
See my homepage at http://www.iansinger.com
hosted on http://www.1and1.com/?k_id=10623894
All genealogy is stored in TMG from http://www.whollygenes.com
Charts and searching using TNG from http://www.tngsitebuilding.com
I am near Toronto Canada, can I tell where you are from your reply?
================================================== =======================

"ian field" wrote in message
...

"Paul aka Sporty" wrote in message
...


"Who Me?" wrote in message
...

"R. LaCasse" wrote

|Why bother? Buy a butane powered soldering iron and be done with it.


I think I suggested that about a week ago!

Sounds good, if you plan on burning all the plastic around the
soldering area I'm considering with wind included...pretty messy
sometimes..


Not if you use your brain just a TINY bit.

You fire it up, let it heat to the proper useable temperature and the
SHUT THE FLAME OFF before you get near the plastic parts. Should be
good
for one or two joints before the wind cools it off too much.
OR
The little catalytic flame only blows in one direction; once you figure
that out, you should be able to point it AWAY from the meltable
parts........and once it is up to temp. and you turn the "flame" down to
a maintenance level, there isn't that much heat coming out anyway.
OR
You could continue to whine over nothing.




The Portasol is very controllable, I never melted anything other than
solder with it.
All you need is some soldering skills and some common sense when using
it.

A good flux is often handy too.

The strands in vehicle wiring are rarely tin plated and usually oxidised,
the flux in cored solder just makes a mess so I keep a tub of active
plumbers flux ready to hand.

Someone else mentioned the risk of vibration to soldered joints - heat
shrink sleeve reduces this risk significantly.




Rosin Flux Soldering Paste is what you need.

http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...ductId=2049774

http://www.mcmelectronics.com/produc...R80-2-/200-385

"Paul aka Sporty" wrote in message
.. .


"ian field" wrote in message
...

"Paul aka Sporty" wrote in message
...


"Who Me?" wrote in message
...

"R. LaCasse" wrote

|Why bother? Buy a butane powered soldering iron and be done with it.


I think I suggested that about a week ago!

Sounds good, if you plan on burning all the plastic around the
soldering area I'm considering with wind included...pretty messy
sometimes..


Not if you use your brain just a TINY bit.

You fire it up, let it heat to the proper useable temperature and the
SHUT THE FLAME OFF before you get near the plastic parts. Should be
good
for one or two joints before the wind cools it off too much.
OR
The little catalytic flame only blows in one direction; once you figure
that out, you should be able to point it AWAY from the meltable
parts........and once it is up to temp. and you turn the "flame" down
to
a maintenance level, there isn't that much heat coming out anyway.
OR
You could continue to whine over nothing.




The Portasol is very controllable, I never melted anything other than
solder with it.
All you need is some soldering skills and some common sense when using
it.

A good flux is often handy too.

The strands in vehicle wiring are rarely tin plated and usually oxidised,
the flux in cored solder just makes a mess so I keep a tub of active
plumbers flux ready to hand.

Someone else mentioned the risk of vibration to soldered joints - heat
shrink sleeve reduces this risk significantly.




Rosin Flux Soldering Paste is what you need.


It doesn't work - it just burns on as an impenetrable lacquer so you have to
scrape all the strands with a knife blade before you can carry on and do the
job properly with an active flux. If the solder takes on any of the strands
you can't easily scrape them so you then have to cut the ruined strands off
and start all over again!

"ian field" wrote in
:


"Paul aka Sporty" wrote in message
.. .


"ian field" wrote in message
...

"Paul aka Sporty" wrote in message
...


"Who Me?" wrote in message
...

"R. LaCasse" wrote

|Why bother? Buy a butane powered soldering iron and be done
|with it.


I think I suggested that about a week ago!

Sounds good, if you plan on burning all the plastic around the
soldering area I'm considering with wind included...pretty messy
sometimes..


Not if you use your brain just a TINY bit.

You fire it up, let it heat to the proper useable temperature and
the SHUT THE FLAME OFF before you get near the plastic parts.
Should be good
for one or two joints before the wind cools it off too much.
OR
The little catalytic flame only blows in one direction; once you
figure that out, you should be able to point it AWAY from the
meltable parts........and once it is up to temp. and you turn the
"flame" down to
a maintenance level, there isn't that much heat coming out anyway.
OR
You could continue to whine over nothing.




The Portasol is very controllable, I never melted anything other
than solder with it.
All you need is some soldering skills and some common sense when
using it.

A good flux is often handy too.

The strands in vehicle wiring are rarely tin plated and usually
oxidised, the flux in cored solder just makes a mess so I keep a tub
of active plumbers flux ready to hand.

Someone else mentioned the risk of vibration to soldered joints -
heat shrink sleeve reduces this risk significantly.




Rosin Flux Soldering Paste is what you need.


It doesn't work - it just burns on as an impenetrable lacquer so you
have to scrape all the strands with a knife blade before you can carry
on and do the job properly with an active flux. If the solder takes on
any of the strands you can't easily scrape them so you then have to
cut the ruined strands off and start all over again!




soldering with an acid flux is OK *IF* you clean ALL the flux off
afterwards. (very iffy...)

Otherwise,the acid eventually eats thru the wire enough that vibration
breaks it.

BTW,some rosin fluxes are more active than others.

I wonder if you first cleaned the wires with Tarn-X,then soldered with
rosin flux,if that would be better?

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

"ian field" wrote in message
...

"Paul aka Sporty" wrote in message
.. .


"ian field" wrote in message
...

"Paul aka Sporty" wrote in message
...


"Who Me?" wrote in message
...

"R. LaCasse" wrote

|Why bother? Buy a butane powered soldering iron and be done with
it.


I think I suggested that about a week ago!

Sounds good, if you plan on burning all the plastic around the
soldering area I'm considering with wind included...pretty messy
sometimes..


Not if you use your brain just a TINY bit.

You fire it up, let it heat to the proper useable temperature and the
SHUT THE FLAME OFF before you get near the plastic parts. Should be
good
for one or two joints before the wind cools it off too much.
OR
The little catalytic flame only blows in one direction; once you
figure
that out, you should be able to point it AWAY from the meltable
parts........and once it is up to temp. and you turn the "flame" down
to
a maintenance level, there isn't that much heat coming out anyway.
OR
You could continue to whine over nothing.




The Portasol is very controllable, I never melted anything other than
solder with it.
All you need is some soldering skills and some common sense when using
it.

A good flux is often handy too.

The strands in vehicle wiring are rarely tin plated and usually
oxidised,
the flux in cored solder just makes a mess so I keep a tub of active
plumbers flux ready to hand.

Someone else mentioned the risk of vibration to soldered joints - heat
shrink sleeve reduces this risk significantly.




Rosin Flux Soldering Paste is what you need.


It doesn't work - it just burns on as an impenetrable lacquer so you have
to scrape all the strands with a knife blade before you can carry on and
do the job properly with an active flux. If the solder takes on any of the
strands you can't easily scrape them so you then have to cut the ruined
strands off and start all over again!


Always remember to slide a piece of shrink wrap up the wire BEFORE starting.
That's the 1st step in a clean solder joint, All metal must be clean and
bright, Then flux and heat to temp, Tinning sometimes
makes the job quicker, After feeding solder and getting a smooth flow allow
to cool before moving to avoid a cold solder joint.

"Jim Yanik" wrote in message
...
"ian field" wrote in
:


"Paul aka Sporty" wrote in message
.. .


"ian field" wrote in message
...

"Paul aka Sporty" wrote in message
...


"Who Me?" wrote in message
...

"R. LaCasse" wrote

|Why bother? Buy a butane powered soldering iron and be done
|with it.


I think I suggested that about a week ago!

Sounds good, if you plan on burning all the plastic around the
soldering area I'm considering with wind included...pretty messy
sometimes..


Not if you use your brain just a TINY bit.

You fire it up, let it heat to the proper useable temperature and
the SHUT THE FLAME OFF before you get near the plastic parts.
Should be good
for one or two joints before the wind cools it off too much.
OR
The little catalytic flame only blows in one direction; once you
figure that out, you should be able to point it AWAY from the
meltable parts........and once it is up to temp. and you turn the
"flame" down to
a maintenance level, there isn't that much heat coming out anyway.
OR
You could continue to whine over nothing.




The Portasol is very controllable, I never melted anything other
than solder with it.
All you need is some soldering skills and some common sense when
using it.

A good flux is often handy too.

The strands in vehicle wiring are rarely tin plated and usually
oxidised, the flux in cored solder just makes a mess so I keep a tub
of active plumbers flux ready to hand.

Someone else mentioned the risk of vibration to soldered joints -
heat shrink sleeve reduces this risk significantly.




Rosin Flux Soldering Paste is what you need.


It doesn't work - it just burns on as an impenetrable lacquer so you
have to scrape all the strands with a knife blade before you can carry
on and do the job properly with an active flux. If the solder takes on
any of the strands you can't easily scrape them so you then have to
cut the ruined strands off and start all over again!




soldering with an acid flux is OK *IF* you clean ALL the flux off
afterwards. (very iffy...)

Otherwise,the acid eventually eats thru the wire enough that vibration
breaks it.

BTW,some rosin fluxes are more active than others.

I wonder if you first cleaned the wires with Tarn-X,then soldered with
rosin flux,if that would be better?

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net


Capillary action will pull acid up the insulation when heated and down the
road the joint will fail.

"Jim Yanik" wrote in message
...
"ian field" wrote in
:


"Paul aka Sporty" wrote in message
.. .


"ian field" wrote in message
...

"Paul aka Sporty" wrote in message
...


"Who Me?" wrote in message
...

"R. LaCasse" wrote

|Why bother? Buy a butane powered soldering iron and be done
|with it.


I think I suggested that about a week ago!

Sounds good, if you plan on burning all the plastic around the
soldering area I'm considering with wind included...pretty messy
sometimes..


Not if you use your brain just a TINY bit.

You fire it up, let it heat to the proper useable temperature and
the SHUT THE FLAME OFF before you get near the plastic parts.
Should be good
for one or two joints before the wind cools it off too much.
OR
The little catalytic flame only blows in one direction; once you
figure that out, you should be able to point it AWAY from the
meltable parts........and once it is up to temp. and you turn the
"flame" down to
a maintenance level, there isn't that much heat coming out anyway.
OR
You could continue to whine over nothing.




The Portasol is very controllable, I never melted anything other
than solder with it.
All you need is some soldering skills and some common sense when
using it.

A good flux is often handy too.

The strands in vehicle wiring are rarely tin plated and usually
oxidised, the flux in cored solder just makes a mess so I keep a tub
of active plumbers flux ready to hand.

Someone else mentioned the risk of vibration to soldered joints -
heat shrink sleeve reduces this risk significantly.




Rosin Flux Soldering Paste is what you need.


It doesn't work - it just burns on as an impenetrable lacquer so you
have to scrape all the strands with a knife blade before you can carry
on and do the job properly with an active flux. If the solder takes on
any of the strands you can't easily scrape them so you then have to
cut the ruined strands off and start all over again!




soldering with an acid flux is OK *IF* you clean ALL the flux off
afterwards. (very iffy...)

Otherwise,the acid eventually eats thru the wire enough that vibration
breaks it.

BTW,some rosin fluxes are more active than others.

I wonder if you first cleaned the wires with Tarn-X,then soldered with
rosin flux,if that would be better?

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net


Capillary action will pull the acid up the insulator when heated and the
joint will fail down the road

"Jim Yanik" wrote in message
...
"ian field" wrote in
:


"Paul aka Sporty" wrote in message
.. .


"ian field" wrote in message
...

"Paul aka Sporty" wrote in message
...


"Who Me?" wrote in message
...

"R. LaCasse" wrote

|Why bother? Buy a butane powered soldering iron and be done
|with it.


I think I suggested that about a week ago!

Sounds good, if you plan on burning all the plastic around the
soldering area I'm considering with wind included...pretty messy
sometimes..


Not if you use your brain just a TINY bit.

You fire it up, let it heat to the proper useable temperature and
the SHUT THE FLAME OFF before you get near the plastic parts.
Should be good
for one or two joints before the wind cools it off too much.
OR
The little catalytic flame only blows in one direction; once you
figure that out, you should be able to point it AWAY from the
meltable parts........and once it is up to temp. and you turn the
"flame" down to
a maintenance level, there isn't that much heat coming out anyway.
OR
You could continue to whine over nothing.




The Portasol is very controllable, I never melted anything other
than solder with it.
All you need is some soldering skills and some common sense when
using it.

A good flux is often handy too.

The strands in vehicle wiring are rarely tin plated and usually
oxidised, the flux in cored solder just makes a mess so I keep a tub
of active plumbers flux ready to hand.

Someone else mentioned the risk of vibration to soldered joints -
heat shrink sleeve reduces this risk significantly.




Rosin Flux Soldering Paste is what you need.


It doesn't work - it just burns on as an impenetrable lacquer so you
have to scrape all the strands with a knife blade before you can carry
on and do the job properly with an active flux. If the solder takes on
any of the strands you can't easily scrape them so you then have to
cut the ruined strands off and start all over again!




soldering with an acid flux is OK *IF* you clean ALL the flux off
afterwards. (very iffy...)

Otherwise,the acid eventually eats thru the wire enough that vibration
breaks it.


Over the years I've done hundreds of joints with active flux, usually
replacing damaged connectors with one's salvaged from a scrap loom, I've
never had a repair fail although I do give the joint a quick wipe with a
damp rag before burning on the heat shrink tube.

"Paul aka Sporty" wrote in
:



"Jim Yanik" wrote in message
...
"ian field" wrote in
:


"Paul aka Sporty" wrote in message
.. .


"ian field" wrote in message
...

"Paul aka Sporty" wrote in message
...


"Who Me?" wrote in message
...

"R. LaCasse" wrote

|Why bother? Buy a butane powered soldering iron and be done
|with it.


I think I suggested that about a week ago!

Sounds good, if you plan on burning all the plastic around the
soldering area I'm considering with wind included...pretty
messy sometimes..


Not if you use your brain just a TINY bit.

You fire it up, let it heat to the proper useable temperature
and the SHUT THE FLAME OFF before you get near the plastic
parts. Should be good
for one or two joints before the wind cools it off too much.
OR
The little catalytic flame only blows in one direction; once you
figure that out, you should be able to point it AWAY from the
meltable parts........and once it is up to temp. and you turn
the "flame" down to
a maintenance level, there isn't that much heat coming out
anyway. OR
You could continue to whine over nothing.




The Portasol is very controllable, I never melted anything other
than solder with it.
All you need is some soldering skills and some common sense when
using it.

A good flux is often handy too.

The strands in vehicle wiring are rarely tin plated and usually
oxidised, the flux in cored solder just makes a mess so I keep a
tub of active plumbers flux ready to hand.

Someone else mentioned the risk of vibration to soldered joints -
heat shrink sleeve reduces this risk significantly.




Rosin Flux Soldering Paste is what you need.


It doesn't work - it just burns on as an impenetrable lacquer so you
have to scrape all the strands with a knife blade before you can
carry on and do the job properly with an active flux. If the solder
takes on any of the strands you can't easily scrape them so you then
have to cut the ruined strands off and start all over again!




soldering with an acid flux is OK *IF* you clean ALL the flux off
afterwards. (very iffy...)

Otherwise,the acid eventually eats thru the wire enough that
vibration breaks it.

BTW,some rosin fluxes are more active than others.

I wonder if you first cleaned the wires with Tarn-X,then soldered
with rosin flux,if that would be better?

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net


Capillary action will pull acid up the insulation when heated and down
the road the joint will fail.



that's the "iffy" part....the -complete- cleaning.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

"ian field" wrote

Rosin Flux Soldering Paste is what you need.


It doesn't work -

I'm sure that tens of millions of technicians and plumbers world wide with
thank you for telling them that what they have been doing successfully for
years really isn't working!!! Bull ****.

At the point where the flux liquefies and begins to boil......but before it
burns to a crisp.....THAT is when you apply the solder......or at least
those of us who know what we are doing do.

On Feb 11, 11:57*pm, R. LaCasse wrote:
On Wed, 11 Feb 2009 21:37:53 -0800 (PST), "S'mee"

wrote:

|On Feb 9, 6:07*am, Bob wrote:
| * * * * I wanna know if I can hot wire my scooter battery to a regular
| 12v/60w soldering iron to do local soldering repairs without going to the
| other fuel/chemical bonding methods for safety ????
|
|Why bother? Buy a butane powered soldering iron and be done with it.

* * * * Sounds good, if you plan on burning all the plastic around the
soldering area I'm considering with wind included...pretty messy
sometimes..

Really? Are you SURE about that? 'cause I've been using them since the
early 90's and have never "Burnt the plastic around the soldering
area" over heated some wire that I was working on? Sure, do that with
an electric one also...who hasn't?

* * * * Maybe I'll go rob a crack head for his butane lighter for all the
use I would need it for on this crampy plastic application....

You sure don't know what you are talking about that's for damn sure.
But hey do it the hard way, if that's what you want. I mean what would
I know, just because I've done if for a long damn time.
--
Keith

On Feb 12, 1:00*pm, "ian field"
wrote:
"Paul aka Sporty" wrote in s.net...







"ian field" wrote in message
...

"Paul aka Sporty" wrote in message
. ..

"Who Me?" wrote in message
.. .

"R. LaCasse" wrote

|Why bother? Buy a butane powered soldering iron and be done with it.

I think I suggested that about a week ago!

Sounds good, if you plan on burning all the plastic around the
soldering area I'm considering with wind included...pretty messy
sometimes..

Not if you use your brain just a TINY bit.

You fire it up, let it heat to the proper useable temperature and the
SHUT THE FLAME OFF before you get near the plastic parts. *Should be
good
for one or two joints before the wind cools it off too much.
OR
The little catalytic flame only blows in one direction; once you figure
that out, you should be able to point it AWAY from the meltable
parts........and once it is up to temp. and you turn the "flame" down
to
a maintenance level, there isn't that much heat coming out anyway.
OR
You could continue to whine over nothing.

The Portasol is very controllable, I never melted anything other than
solder with it.
All you need is some soldering skills and some common sense when using
it.

A good flux is often handy too.

The strands in vehicle wiring are rarely tin plated and usually oxidised,
the flux in cored solder just makes a mess so I keep a tub of active
plumbers flux ready to hand.

Someone else mentioned the risk of vibration to soldered joints - heat
shrink sleeve reduces this risk significantly.

Rosin Flux Soldering Paste is what you need.

It doesn't work - it just burns on as an impenetrable lacquer so you have to
scrape all the strands with a knife blade before you can carry on and do the
job properly with an active flux. If the solder takes on any of the strands
you can't easily scrape them so you then have to cut the ruined strands off
and start all over again!

Only if you slop it on like house paint... a little dab is all it
takes. Yes it takes practice to learn just how much to NOT use. But
what the heck it's fun learning a new skill. IIRC I learned this
building my first Heathkit radio back in...uh, 1976 iirc.
--
Keith

On Feb 12, 10:00*pm, "S'mee" wrote:

Only if you slop it on like house paint... a little dab is all it
takes. Yes it takes practice to learn just how much to NOT use. But
what the heck it's fun learning a new skill. IIRC I learned this
building my first Heathkit radio back in...uh, 1976 iirc.

OK, so you were a precocious 10 year old kid. Too bad you haven't
matured...

soldering with an acid flux is OK *IF* you clean ALL the flux off
afterwards. (very iffy...)

Otherwise,the acid eventually eats thru the wire enough that vibration
breaks it.

BTW,some rosin fluxes are more active than others.

I wonder if you first cleaned the wires with Tarn-X,then soldered with
rosin flux,if that would be better?

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net



Capillary action will pull acid up the insulation when heated and down the
road the joint will fail.

46 years of soldering and still learning new "Tricks".

"Who Me?" wrote in message
...

"ian field" wrote

Rosin Flux Soldering Paste is what you need.


It doesn't work -

I'm sure that tens of millions of technicians and plumbers world wide with
thank you for telling them that what they have been doing successfully for
years really isn't working!!! Bull ****.

At the point where the flux liquefies and begins to boil......but before
it burns to a crisp.....THAT is when you apply the solder......or at least
those of us who know what we are doing do.



You're really good at twisting words aren't you - especially having snipped
all the relevant content that would have shown up your twisted rant.

With cored solder the solder is applied simultaneously with the flux - not
after the flux has burned as you mischievously suggest.

I suggest you try to find a topic you know squat about to criticise!

"S'mee" wrote in message
...
On Feb 12, 1:00 pm, "ian field"
wrote:
"Paul aka Sporty" wrote in
s.net...







"ian field" wrote in message
...

"Paul aka Sporty" wrote in message
. ..

"Who Me?" wrote in message
.. .

"R. LaCasse" wrote

|Why bother? Buy a butane powered soldering iron and be done with
it.

I think I suggested that about a week ago!

Sounds good, if you plan on burning all the plastic around the
soldering area I'm considering with wind included...pretty messy
sometimes..

Not if you use your brain just a TINY bit.

You fire it up, let it heat to the proper useable temperature and the
SHUT THE FLAME OFF before you get near the plastic parts. Should be
good
for one or two joints before the wind cools it off too much.
OR
The little catalytic flame only blows in one direction; once you
figure
that out, you should be able to point it AWAY from the meltable
parts........and once it is up to temp. and you turn the "flame" down
to
a maintenance level, there isn't that much heat coming out anyway.
OR
You could continue to whine over nothing.

The Portasol is very controllable, I never melted anything other than
solder with it.
All you need is some soldering skills and some common sense when using
it.

A good flux is often handy too.

The strands in vehicle wiring are rarely tin plated and usually
oxidised,
the flux in cored solder just makes a mess so I keep a tub of active
plumbers flux ready to hand.

Someone else mentioned the risk of vibration to soldered joints - heat
shrink sleeve reduces this risk significantly.

Rosin Flux Soldering Paste is what you need.

It doesn't work - it just burns on as an impenetrable lacquer so you have
to
scrape all the strands with a knife blade before you can carry on and do
the
job properly with an active flux. If the solder takes on any of the
strands
you can't easily scrape them so you then have to cut the ruined strands
off
and start all over again!

Only if you slop it on like house paint... a little dab is all it
takes. Yes it takes practice to learn just how much to NOT use. But
what the heck it's fun learning a new skill. IIRC I learned this
building my first Heathkit radio back in...uh, 1976 iirc.
--
Keith

Well I guess I've been successfully soldering things (in a wide variety of
applications) for a bit longer than you then.

In most cases its as simple as choosing the right flux for the job.

"ian field" wrote

With cored solder the solder is applied simultaneously with the flux - not
after the flux has burned as you mischievously suggest.

I suggest you try to find a topic you know squat about to criticise!

You are the one that said flux burns.
I am the one that said if you do it RIGHT, it does NOT burn......regardless
of the source, paste or core or flowing in a machine.

Screw you. I have probably done and supervised more solder joints in my 40
year career than you have seen or imagined.

On Feb 13, 7:19*am, "." wrote:
On Feb 12, 10:00*pm, "S'mee" wrote:

Only if you slop it on like house paint... a little dab is all it
takes. Yes it takes practice to learn just how much to NOT use. But
what the heck it's fun learning a new skill. IIRC I learned this
building my first Heathkit radio back in...uh, 1976 iirc.

OK, so you were a precocious 10 year old kid. Too bad you haven't
matured...

and yet I'm STILL more mature and intelligent than you. I DO, I don't
need to explain.
--
Keith

On Feb 13, 11:57*am, "ian field"
wrote:
"S'mee" wrote in message

...
On Feb 12, 1:00 pm, "ian field"
wrote:





"Paul aka Sporty" wrote in
s.net...

"ian field" wrote in message
...

"Paul aka Sporty" wrote in message
. ..

"Who Me?" wrote in message
.. .

"R. LaCasse" wrote

|Why bother? Buy a butane powered soldering iron and be done with
it.

I think I suggested that about a week ago!

Sounds good, if you plan on burning all the plastic around the
soldering area I'm considering with wind included...pretty messy
sometimes..

Not if you use your brain just a TINY bit.

You fire it up, let it heat to the proper useable temperature and the
SHUT THE FLAME OFF before you get near the plastic parts. Should be
good
for one or two joints before the wind cools it off too much.
OR
The little catalytic flame only blows in one direction; once you
figure
that out, you should be able to point it AWAY from the meltable
parts........and once it is up to temp. and you turn the "flame" down
to
a maintenance level, there isn't that much heat coming out anyway.
OR
You could continue to whine over nothing.

The Portasol is very controllable, I never melted anything other than
solder with it.
All you need is some soldering skills and some common sense when using
it.

A good flux is often handy too.

The strands in vehicle wiring are rarely tin plated and usually
oxidised,
the flux in cored solder just makes a mess so I keep a tub of active
plumbers flux ready to hand.

Someone else mentioned the risk of vibration to soldered joints - heat
shrink sleeve reduces this risk significantly.

Rosin Flux Soldering Paste is what you need.

It doesn't work - it just burns on as an impenetrable lacquer so you have
to
scrape all the strands with a knife blade before you can carry on and do
the
job properly with an active flux. If the solder takes on any of the
strands
you can't easily scrape them so you then have to cut the ruined strands
off
and start all over again!

Only if you slop it on like house paint... a little dab is all it
takes. Yes it takes practice to learn just how much to NOT use. But
what the heck it's fun learning a new skill. IIRC I learned this
building my first Heathkit radio back in...uh, 1976 iirc.
--
Keith

Well I guess I've been successfully soldering things (in a wide variety of
applications) for a bit longer than you then.

In most cases its as simple as choosing the right flux for the job.-

agreed and acid flux is the WORST thing to use on electrical
applications.
--
Keith

On Thu, 12 Feb 2009 21:56:56 -0800 (PST), "S'mee"
wrote:

| * * * * Maybe I'll go rob a crack head for his butane lighter for all the
| use I would need it for on this crampy plastic application....
|
|You sure don't know what you are talking about that's for damn sure.
|But hey do it the hard way, if that's what you want. I mean what would
|I know, just because I've done if for a long damn time.

What CRACK?????...no **** heh!