Electronics Repair (sci.electronics.repair) Discussion of repairing electronic equipment. Topics include requests for assistance, where to obtain servicing information and parts, techniques for diagnosis and repair, and annecdotes about success, failures and problems.

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Default Wandering Tracking on Old Beta VCR

With Beta VCR's going for big bucks on Ebay (at least if in good working
order) I thought it might be worth fixing up and selling some of the ones
I've kept in storage for just such an occasion. Some aren't going to be easy
though, and here's one I'm going to need some advice on.
It's a Sanyo VCR-4500, and the problem is that the tracking slowly and
constantly wanders back and forth. I tried tweaking some of the adjustments
on the servo board, but still could not completely stabilize it. I admit my
knowledge of VCR's is somewhat lacking; I never fully grasped the concept of
servos and PG systems and much of the other complicated circuitury. I can
only guess that some reference signal is drifting in frequency, but that's
about as fancy a theory as I can come up with.
I thoroughly checked the power supply and all voltages are rock-solid. I
noticed that the capstan supply voltage, specified as 12VDC in the manual,
only measures 11.6, not sure if that would affect anything or not. I also
tried swapping the capstan motor from a known-good machine but that didn't
make any difference.
It's worth noting that the unit was working fine when I first acquired it,
some six or seven years ago, and it has been in cold storage ever since.
Maybe some bad caps?
Thanks for any advice.


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Default Wandering Tracking on Old Beta VCR

On 18 ene, 20:13, "Chris F." wrote:
the problem is that the tracking slowly and
constantly wanders back and forth. I tried tweaking some of the adjustments
on the servo board, but still could not completely stabilize it.


AAAARRRGGGHH! the phantom twiddler! A pet hate of all techs! I HOPE
you marked the original positions of those pots.....

I admit my
knowledge of VCR's is somewhat lacking; I never fully grasped the concept of
servos and PG systems and much of the other complicated circuitury.


....and still you hope to refurb and resell these beasts? I would
forget it if I were you.

I can
only guess that some reference signal is drifting in frequency, but that's
about as fancy a theory as I can come up with.


.....that is not even a theory, that is pure guesswork. have you
checked the A/c head? pinch roller? tape path? torque? consumer
tracking adjust pot condition?all of these are fundamentals and well
known causes for this problem....

B.
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Default Wandering Tracking on Old Beta VCR

b wrote:

....that is not even a theory, that is pure guesswork. have you
checked the A/c head? pinch roller? tape path? torque? consumer
tracking adjust pot condition?all of these are fundamentals and well
known causes for this problem....


Off hand I think the guy is better off just trying to sell it off "as-is".

If it's that series of Sanyo I'm thinking of, those were barely repairable
20 years ago.

The main problem with it, it's 100% plastic, everything, the well the
transport sits in, the load rings, arms, gears, levers.

Those machines were introduced to be price competitive by being built as
cheap as possible to try to get a gain on vhs sales. Other brands like Sony
and Toshiba may have been cheaping down, but were smart enough to leave some
metal where it was needed (like on the transport).

Although his problem might be electrical, there was a re-occurance of a
small cap (either 1uf or 3.3uf) on the pulse line coming from the capstan
motor for one of the servo circuits, more likely the machine is just plain
warped.

No joke, I saw one so bad it was visible by just eyeballing. The guy who
owned it had it on top of the tv and likely between the heat from the
machine and what was coming out the vents of the set just warped the chassis
in under a year or so.

If you got the tape to load, more or less the same results, looked like some
kind of tracking error, enough to be annoying. But I'm telling you, there
wasn't a damn thing wrong with it except mechanical alignment which wasn't
possible anymore.

Just sell it as-is, I really don't think a Sanyo four-thousand series is
worth anything, even in mint condition.

-bruce

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Default Wandering Tracking on Old Beta VCR

No need to insult my intelligence - I'm not quite as ignorant as you
think.
All components in the tape path are fine. I did however try changing a few
capacitors in the tracking and PG amplifier circuits, and it appears to have
done the trick. With a bit more tweaking I was able to get a good stable
picture at both speeds.

"b" wrote in message
...
On 18 ene, 20:13, "Chris F." wrote:
the problem is that the tracking slowly and
constantly wanders back and forth. I tried tweaking some of the
adjustments
on the servo board, but still could not completely stabilize it.


AAAARRRGGGHH! the phantom twiddler! A pet hate of all techs! I HOPE
you marked the original positions of those pots.....

I admit my
knowledge of VCR's is somewhat lacking; I never fully grasped the concept
of
servos and PG systems and much of the other complicated circuitury.


...and still you hope to refurb and resell these beasts? I would
forget it if I were you.

I can
only guess that some reference signal is drifting in frequency, but
that's
about as fancy a theory as I can come up with.


....that is not even a theory, that is pure guesswork. have you
checked the A/c head? pinch roller? tape path? torque? consumer
tracking adjust pot condition?all of these are fundamentals and well
known causes for this problem....

B.



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Just sell it as-is, I really don't think a Sanyo four-thousand series is
worth anything, even in mint condition.


Well, I got just over $200 US for a 6310 the other night.... if all Sanyos
are worth even half that, it's well worth putting some time and money into
them.




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Default Wandering Tracking on Old Beta VCR


"Chris F." wrote in message
...

Just sell it as-is, I really don't think a Sanyo four-thousand series is
worth anything, even in mint condition.


Well, I got just over $200 US for a 6310 the other night.... if all Sanyos
are worth even half that, it's well worth putting some time and money into
them.

Wow! I think I have a couple of 5000's in my loft somewhere...I am rich!!
;0)
Roy


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Default Wandering Tracking on Old Beta VCR

On Jan 19, 1:50 pm, "Chris F." wrote:
Just sell it as-is, I really don't think a Sanyo four-thousand series is
worth anything, even in mint condition.


Well, I got just over $200 US for a 6310 the other night.... if all Sanyos
are worth even half that, it's well worth putting some time and money into
them.


Have you changed the pinch roller and all belts? Tracking will try to
follow the varying speed of the tape passing the read heads, and if
you have an old roller and belt(s), "that have been sitting in storage
for years", then you will have tracking problems.
tom
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Default Wandering Tracking on Old Beta VCR

Chris F. wrote:

Well, I got just over $200 US for a 6310 the other night.... if all Sanyos
are worth even half that, it's well worth putting some time and money into
them.



I have to admit I'm sort of stumped. Looking at completed auctions on ebay
most Sony models, even those with the hi-fi audio don't seem to fetch more
than $75-$100 for most of the mid-level machines.

Why the Sanyo's seem to be getting more is an oddity.

Another thing to admit, looking at the picture of the Sanyo 4000, that isn't
the chassis I was thinking of, I think.

-bruce

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Default Wandering Tracking on Old Beta VCR


"Bruce Esquibel" wrote in message
...
Chris F. wrote:

Well, I got just over $200 US for a 6310 the other night.... if all
Sanyos
are worth even half that, it's well worth putting some time and money
into
them.



I have to admit I'm sort of stumped. Looking at completed auctions on ebay
most Sony models, even those with the hi-fi audio don't seem to fetch more
than $75-$100 for most of the mid-level machines.

Why the Sanyo's seem to be getting more is an oddity.

Another thing to admit, looking at the picture of the Sanyo 4000, that
isn't
the chassis I was thinking of, I think.

-bruce


I used to be a Sanyo dealer and I loved them! Everything easy to get at and
(mostly) easily repaired when required. Sony on the other hand were a pain
in the A**e. Parts were as expensive as hell and service anuals also. Faults
were always really obscure and circuitry was weird and super critical. I
would rather have a Sanyo any day. As a matter of fact, I still have a Sanyo
CRT TV giving as good a picture as good as when I took it home 20 odd years
ago!

Roy


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Default Wandering Tracking on Old Beta VCR

On 20 ene, 16:34, Bruce Esquibel wrote:


I have to admit I'm sort of stumped. Looking at completed auctions on ebay
most Sony models, even those with the hi-fi audio don't seem to fetch more
than $75-$100 for most of the mid-level machines.

Why the Sanyo's seem to be getting more is an oddity.


Simple. the sanyos unlaced the tape from the head during rewind, which
helped save on wear. they were lighter and are as such easier to mail
than sony. They are easy to access mechanically.
Sony , as Roy says, were expensive and awkward to service , bulkier,
and suffer from head wear (I have had at least 6 c-30 betas pass
through my hands with useless heads, not one single sanyo with this
problem ever). Same goes for the unusually complicated cassette front
loading mech which always seems to break. All that makes them
generally a worse used buy. (and I have a C9 and 3 HF-100s!)

-B


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Default Wandering Tracking on Old Beta VCR

I have a Sony C-20 in working condition. As an anecdote many years ago
I was testing it while I was trying to find the code for an universal
remote control. Went through all the codes using the remote autosearch
feature while pointing it to the VCR without any success until I
realized the machine did not appear to have any IR receiver window.
Felt pretty stupid for that...
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Default Wandering Tracking on Old Beta VCR

In article , "Roy" wrote:

"Bruce Esquibel" wrote in message
...
Chris F. wrote:

Well, I got just over $200 US for a 6310 the other night.... if all
Sanyos
are worth even half that, it's well worth putting some time and money
into
them.



I have to admit I'm sort of stumped. Looking at completed auctions on ebay
most Sony models, even those with the hi-fi audio don't seem to fetch more
than $75-$100 for most of the mid-level machines.

Why the Sanyo's seem to be getting more is an oddity.

Another thing to admit, looking at the picture of the Sanyo 4000, that
isn't
the chassis I was thinking of, I think.

-bruce


I used to be a Sanyo dealer and I loved them! Everything easy to get at and
(mostly) easily repaired when required. Sony on the other hand were a pain
in the A**e. Parts were as expensive as hell and service anuals also. Faults
were always really obscure and circuitry was weird and super critical. I
would rather have a Sanyo any day. As a matter of fact, I still have a Sanyo
CRT TV giving as good a picture as good as when I took it home 20 odd years
ago!

Roy



For as long as i can remember, and i am over 40, Sanyo has always been low end
junk for all its products. Sure there are lower end crap, but it rates right
down there. I own a Sanyo 7200 and it barely still works




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"Kevin Dooks" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 18 Jan 2009 11:13:36 -0800, "Chris F."
wrote:

With Beta VCR's going for big bucks on Ebay (at least if in good working
order) I thought it might be worth fixing up and selling some of the ones
I've kept in storage for just such an occasion. Some aren't going to be
easy
though, and here's one I'm going to need some advice on.
It's a Sanyo VCR-4500, and the problem is that the tracking slowly and
constantly wanders back and forth. I tried tweaking some of the
adjustments
on the servo board, but still could not completely stabilize it. I admit
my
knowledge of VCR's is somewhat lacking; I never fully grasped the concept
of
servos and PG systems and much of the other complicated circuitury. I can
only guess that some reference signal is drifting in frequency, but that's
about as fancy a theory as I can come up with.
I thoroughly checked the power supply and all voltages are rock-solid. I
noticed that the capstan supply voltage, specified as 12VDC in the manual,
only measures 11.6, not sure if that would affect anything or not. I also
tried swapping the capstan motor from a known-good machine but that didn't
make any difference.
It's worth noting that the unit was working fine when I first acquired
it,
some six or seven years ago, and it has been in cold storage ever since.
Maybe some bad caps?
Thanks for any advice.

Well, I beg to differ with ALMOST everyone here. The SANYO beta
machines were by FAR the BEST beta machines ever on the CONSUMER
market. Inexpensive, reliable, easy to work on and most problems could
be fixed for less than $100 Canadian. The others (Sony and their
re-branded offspring being the WORST) were by and large radically
overpriced JUNK, unreliable, a pain to work on,expensive parts and
don't get me started about parts availabilty.
A Sony typically cost $150+ Canadian to repair and that was just the
parts !

Oh, BTW the ' wander tracking ' was usually (99.99999 % ) caused by a
defunct capstan motor. Good luck finding one of THOSE these days.

Pardon my pro-SANYO rant but I serviced 'em for many years both in and
out of warranty so I am obviously BIASED.


Kevin



Sanyo's were much worse about eating tapes, I can tell you that. If one was
an authorized Sony servicer and was familiar with the product, repairs
weren't so difficult. Further, Sony's were worth more from the start, and
customers were generally willing to spend more to fix them.

Mark Z.

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On 21 ene, 00:30, Jeroni Paul wrote:
I have a Sony C-20 in working condition. As an anecdote many years ago
I was testing it while I was trying to find the code for an universal
remote control. Went through all the codes using the remote autosearch
feature while pointing it to the VCR without any success until I
realized the machine did not appear to have any IR receiver window.
Felt pretty stupid for that...


we've all been there, I'm sure!
yes, the c20 was the basic version of the c30.
-B
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On Sun, 18 Jan 2009 11:13:36 -0800, "Chris F."
wrote:

With Beta VCR's going for big bucks on Ebay (at least if in good working
order) I thought it might be worth fixing up and selling some of the ones
I've kept in storage for just such an occasion. Some aren't going to be easy
though, and here's one I'm going to need some advice on.
It's a Sanyo VCR-4500, and the problem is that the tracking slowly and
constantly wanders back and forth. I tried tweaking some of the adjustments
on the servo board, but still could not completely stabilize it. I admit my
knowledge of VCR's is somewhat lacking; I never fully grasped the concept of
servos and PG systems and much of the other complicated circuitury. I can
only guess that some reference signal is drifting in frequency, but that's
about as fancy a theory as I can come up with.
I thoroughly checked the power supply and all voltages are rock-solid. I
noticed that the capstan supply voltage, specified as 12VDC in the manual,
only measures 11.6, not sure if that would affect anything or not. I also
tried swapping the capstan motor from a known-good machine but that didn't
make any difference.
It's worth noting that the unit was working fine when I first acquired it,
some six or seven years ago, and it has been in cold storage ever since.
Maybe some bad caps?
Thanks for any advice.

Well, I beg to differ with ALMOST everyone here. The SANYO beta
machines were by FAR the BEST beta machines ever on the CONSUMER
market. Inexpensive, reliable, easy to work on and most problems could
be fixed for less than $100 Canadian. The others (Sony and their
re-branded offspring being the WORST) were by and large radically
overpriced JUNK, unreliable, a pain to work on,expensive parts and
don't get me started about parts availabilty.
A Sony typically cost $150+ Canadian to repair and that was just the
parts !

Oh, BTW the ' wander tracking ' was usually (99.99999 % ) caused by a
defunct capstan motor. Good luck finding one of THOSE these days.

Pardon my pro-SANYO rant but I serviced 'em for many years both in and
out of warranty so I am obviously BIASED.


Kevin


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Oh, BTW the ' wander tracking ' was usually (99.99999 % ) caused by a
defunct capstan motor. Good luck finding one of THOSE these days.


As I said in my original post, I swapped the capstan motor with one from a
good-working unit, and it made no difference.....


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On 19 ene, 16:47, "Chris F." wrote:
No need to insult my intelligence - I'm not quite as ignorant as you
think.
All components in the tape path are fine. I did however try changing a few
capacitors in the tracking and PG amplifier circuits, and it appears to have
done the trick. With a bit more tweaking I was able to get a good stable
picture at both speeds.


sorry if I came across as insulting, one reads all kinds of things on
here and sometimes posts don't convey the OPs real knowledge ...
anyway glad to hear you got some progress. However, often, making pot
adjustments can mask the real, underlying mechanical or electrical
fault, so do bear that in mind to avoid disappointment!

-B
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In article , Kevin Dooks wrote:
On Sun, 18 Jan 2009 11:13:36 -0800, "Chris F."
wrote:

With Beta VCR's going for big bucks on Ebay (at least if in good working
order) I thought it might be worth fixing up and selling some of the ones
I've kept in storage for just such an occasion. Some aren't going to be easy
though, and here's one I'm going to need some advice on.
It's a Sanyo VCR-4500, and the problem is that the tracking slowly and
constantly wanders back and forth. I tried tweaking some of the adjustments
on the servo board, but still could not completely stabilize it. I admit my
knowledge of VCR's is somewhat lacking; I never fully grasped the concept of
servos and PG systems and much of the other complicated circuitury. I can
only guess that some reference signal is drifting in frequency, but that's
about as fancy a theory as I can come up with.
I thoroughly checked the power supply and all voltages are rock-solid. I
noticed that the capstan supply voltage, specified as 12VDC in the manual,
only measures 11.6, not sure if that would affect anything or not. I also
tried swapping the capstan motor from a known-good machine but that didn't
make any difference.
It's worth noting that the unit was working fine when I first acquired it,
some six or seven years ago, and it has been in cold storage ever since.
Maybe some bad caps?
Thanks for any advice.

Well, I beg to differ with ALMOST everyone here. The SANYO beta
machines were by FAR the BEST beta machines ever on the CONSUMER
market. Inexpensive, reliable, easy to work on and most problems could
be fixed for less than $100 Canadian. The others (Sony and their
re-branded offspring being the WORST) were by and large radically
overpriced JUNK, unreliable, a pain to work on,expensive parts and
don't get me started about parts availabilty.
A Sony typically cost $150+ Canadian to repair and that was just the
parts !

Oh, BTW the ' wander tracking ' was usually (99.99999 % ) caused by a
defunct capstan motor. Good luck finding one of THOSE these days.

Pardon my pro-SANYO rant but I serviced 'em for many years both in and
out of warranty so I am obviously BIASED.


Kevin

Sanyo's beta heads were by far the worst. They suffered from the comet noise
type problems and wore out very freqeuntly
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