Hi, I wonder if anyone can help me with this. Two of the keys do not produce
any sound and one of the keys (approximately in the middle) seems to be
sticking up about 8 mm proud of the other keys. Although I am from an
electronics background (TVand Video servicing) I have never had any dealings
with one of these before. If anyone can point me in the right direction for
a workshop service manual or has any tips I would really appreciate it! I
have spent a couple of hours googling but all I can find is that it was
manufactured in 1988 or thereabouts. I found how to do the factory reset but
this didnt do anything, and also got the user manual. Thanks in advance for
any help.
Roy

Roy wrote:
Hi, I wonder if anyone can help me with this. Two of the keys do not produce
any sound and one of the keys (approximately in the middle) seems to be
sticking up about 8 mm proud of the other keys. Although I am from an
electronics background (TVand Video servicing) I have never had any dealings
with one of these before. If anyone can point me in the right direction for
a workshop service manual or has any tips I would really appreciate it! I
have spent a couple of hours googling but all I can find is that it was
manufactured in 1988 or thereabouts. I found how to do the factory reset but
this didnt do anything, and also got the user manual. Thanks in advance for
any help.
Roy


I expect you're going to have to open it up. Since you already have one
strictly mechanical issue with the keyboard--the misplaced key--I think
it's reasonable to at least suspect mechanical issues with the other
two. In any case, it's going to have to come open to fix the one key;
so repost if you can't figure out the problem with the other two *after*
you've looked inside.

jak

In article ,
"Roy" wrote:

Hi, I wonder if anyone can help me with this. Two of the keys do not produce
any sound and one of the keys (approximately in the middle) seems to be
sticking up about 8 mm proud of the other keys. Although I am from an
electronics background (TVand Video servicing) I have never had any dealings
with one of these before. If anyone can point me in the right direction for
a workshop service manual or has any tips I would really appreciate it!

I'm not familiar at all with this specific model, but from your
description it certainly sounds like some mechanical damage to or
maladjustment of the keyboard assembly. Disassembly and inspection
should eventually reveal what the problem is, and likely also if it is
feasible to make/invent a repair or not.

The electronics almost certainly uses some form of matrixed scanning of
the keys to then digitally activate the sounds, perhaps in octave or
half octave increments, so the actual electronic core would seem to be
perfectly OK and the problems lie only in the keyboard mechanism itself
or its interconnection to the "brain."

Good luck.

--
Andrew Erickson

"He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot
lose." -- Jim Elliot

"jakdedert" wrote in message
...
Roy wrote:
Hi, I wonder if anyone can help me with this. Two of the keys do not
produce any sound and one of the keys (approximately in the middle) seems
to be sticking up about 8 mm proud of the other keys. Although I am from
an electronics background (TVand Video servicing) I have never had any
dealings with one of these before. If anyone can point me in the right
direction for a workshop service manual or has any tips I would really
appreciate it! I have spent a couple of hours googling but all I can find
is that it was manufactured in 1988 or thereabouts. I found how to do the
factory reset but this didnt do anything, and also got the user manual.
Thanks in advance for any help.
Roy



The key that is sticking up is almost certainly broken. The keys that don't
sound are almost certainly because the key contacts are dirty or worn.

You don't need a service manual. Just take off the lower casing and work
out what is required to remove the keyframe assembly - usually unscrewing
lots of screws and perhaps removing some circuit boards.
The key contact strips are under the keys. On some keyboards you need to
remove the keys to access them, on others you unscrew the circuit boards
from under the keys to access them leaving the keys in place.

You may be able to clean the dirtry strips and the PCB they act on, or it
may be better to buy a new set of strips with the new key you will need to
buy from Roland, neither are particularly expensive. Clean the PCB contacts
carefully with alcohol and cotton buds before fitting the new or cleaned
strips.



Gareth.

"Gareth Magennis" wrote in message
...

"jakdedert" wrote in message
...
Roy wrote:
Hi, I wonder if anyone can help me with this. Two of the keys do not
produce any sound and one of the keys (approximately in the middle)
seems to be sticking up about 8 mm proud of the other keys. Although I
am from an electronics background (TVand Video servicing) I have never
had any dealings with one of these before. If anyone can point me in the
right direction for a workshop service manual or has any tips I would
really appreciate it! I have spent a couple of hours googling but all I
can find is that it was manufactured in 1988 or thereabouts. I found how
to do the factory reset but this didnt do anything, and also got the
user manual. Thanks in advance for any help.
Roy



The key that is sticking up is almost certainly broken. The keys that
don't sound are almost certainly because the key contacts are dirty or
worn.

You don't need a service manual. Just take off the lower casing and work
out what is required to remove the keyframe assembly - usually unscrewing
lots of screws and perhaps removing some circuit boards.
The key contact strips are under the keys. On some keyboards you need to
remove the keys to access them, on others you unscrew the circuit boards
from under the keys to access them leaving the keys in place.

You may be able to clean the dirtry strips and the PCB they act on, or it
may be better to buy a new set of strips with the new key you will need to
buy from Roland, neither are particularly expensive. Clean the PCB
contacts carefully with alcohol and cotton buds before fitting the new or
cleaned strips.



Gareth.
Thanks for the responses guys. I will probably be ok once I manage to get
into the beast (one of the reasons I was after a service manual). So far
have removed all of the arrowed screws on the underside together with a
couple that were not arrowed. (7 x 20mm round head, 2 x 12mm roundhead and 2
x 20mm countersunk).The only ones I have not removed are four marked "Do Not
Remove" (natch!). Judging by the spacing I think they are probably securing
the power supply/transformer. The top does still not want to part company
with the bottom and I do not want to start jemmying. It seems to seperate by
about 20mm all the way round except at the back.

Roy

Roy wrote:
"Gareth Magennis" wrote in message
...
"jakdedert" wrote in message
...
Roy wrote:
Hi, I wonder if anyone can help me with this. Two of the keys do not
produce any sound and one of the keys (approximately in the middle)
seems to be sticking up about 8 mm proud of the other keys. Although I
am from an electronics background (TVand Video servicing) I have never
had any dealings with one of these before. If anyone can point me in the
right direction for a workshop service manual or has any tips I would
really appreciate it! I have spent a couple of hours googling but all I
can find is that it was manufactured in 1988 or thereabouts. I found how
to do the factory reset but this didnt do anything, and also got the
user manual. Thanks in advance for any help.
Roy


The key that is sticking up is almost certainly broken. The keys that
don't sound are almost certainly because the key contacts are dirty or
worn.

You don't need a service manual. Just take off the lower casing and work
out what is required to remove the keyframe assembly - usually unscrewing
lots of screws and perhaps removing some circuit boards.
The key contact strips are under the keys. On some keyboards you need to
remove the keys to access them, on others you unscrew the circuit boards
from under the keys to access them leaving the keys in place.

You may be able to clean the dirtry strips and the PCB they act on, or it
may be better to buy a new set of strips with the new key you will need to
buy from Roland, neither are particularly expensive. Clean the PCB
contacts carefully with alcohol and cotton buds before fitting the new or
cleaned strips.



Gareth.
Thanks for the responses guys. I will probably be ok once I manage to get
into the beast (one of the reasons I was after a service manual). So far
have removed all of the arrowed screws on the underside together with a
couple that were not arrowed. (7 x 20mm round head, 2 x 12mm roundhead and 2
x 20mm countersunk).The only ones I have not removed are four marked "Do Not
Remove" (natch!). Judging by the spacing I think they are probably securing
the power supply/transformer. The top does still not want to part company
with the bottom and I do not want to start jemmying. It seems to seperate by
about 20mm all the way round except at the back.

Roy


Use something like a heavy guitar pick to work around the seam. Likely
either top needs to flex in, or vice versa, to release a tab.

(Almost as likely: you've already figured this out....)

jak

"jakdedert" wrote in message
...
Roy wrote:
Thanks for the responses guys. I will probably be ok once I manage to get
into the beast (one of the reasons I was after a service manual). So far
have removed all of the arrowed screws on the underside together with a
couple that were not arrowed. (7 x 20mm round head, 2 x 12mm roundhead
and 2 x 20mm countersunk).The only ones I have not removed are four
marked "Do Not Remove" (natch!). Judging by the spacing I think they are
probably securing the power supply/transformer. The top does still not
want to part company with the bottom and I do not want to start jemmying.
It seems to seperate by about 20mm all the way round except at the back.

Roy
Use something like a heavy guitar pick to work around the seam. Likely
either top needs to flex in, or vice versa, to release a tab.

(Almost as likely: you've already figured this out....)

jak

Yes thanks jak, tried all the usual stuff, but all encoragement/ideas
greatly appreciated. Just discovered a screw at the middle of the bottom -
in a deep hole. Guess what? the screw wont turn...bugger! Assuming its the
same cross head as the other screws found a driver bit with a perfect fit -
still no good. Also noted two holes at the rear of the top which look like
they may have been plugged with something, whatever it is, its not rubber
and not soft. Wonder if there are screws hiding under there?

Roy

"Roy" wrote in message
...

"jakdedert" wrote in message
...
Roy wrote:
Thanks for the responses guys. I will probably be ok once I manage to
get into the beast (one of the reasons I was after a service manual). So
far have removed all of the arrowed screws on the underside together
with a couple that were not arrowed. (7 x 20mm round head, 2 x 12mm
roundhead and 2 x 20mm countersunk).The only ones I have not removed are
four marked "Do Not Remove" (natch!). Judging by the spacing I think
they are probably securing the power supply/transformer. The top does
still not want to part company with the bottom and I do not want to
start jemmying. It seems to seperate by about 20mm all the way round
except at the back.

Roy
Use something like a heavy guitar pick to work around the seam. Likely
either top needs to flex in, or vice versa, to release a tab.

(Almost as likely: you've already figured this out....)

jak

Yes thanks jak, tried all the usual stuff, but all encoragement/ideas
greatly appreciated. Just discovered a screw at the middle of the bottom -
in a deep hole. Guess what? the screw wont turn...bugger! Assuming its the
same cross head as the other screws found a driver bit with a perfect
fit - still no good. Also noted two holes at the rear of the top which
look like they may have been plugged with something, whatever it is, its
not rubber and not soft. Wonder if there are screws hiding under there?

Roy


I've never found any screws in Roland keyboards covered by any sort of cap,
and I've opened hundreds. This might be for a music stand?

You will have to get the screw on the bottom out first anyhow. With the
keyboard upside down on the bench and protected, put in your perfectest
fitting screwdriver and hold it tight and bang it hard with a hammer a few
times, that should loosen whatever is holding it tight. This may sound
drastic, but a confident bang or two is gonna shift it, pussyfooting around
is going to round the head and you will be in real trouble.



Gareth.


Gareth.

In article ,
jakdedert wrote:

Roy wrote:
Thanks for the responses guys. I will probably be ok once I manage to get
into the beast (one of the reasons I was after a service manual). So far
have removed all of the arrowed screws on the underside together with a
couple that were not arrowed. (7 x 20mm round head, 2 x 12mm roundhead and
2
x 20mm countersunk).The only ones I have not removed are four marked "Do
Not
Remove" (natch!). Judging by the spacing I think they are probably securing
the power supply/transformer. The top does still not want to part company
with the bottom and I do not want to start jemmying. It seems to seperate
by
about 20mm all the way round except at the back.

Roy


Use something like a heavy guitar pick to work around the seam. Likely
either top needs to flex in, or vice versa, to release a tab.

(Almost as likely: you've already figured this out....)

This probably goes without saying, but it might be necessary to remove
any grub nuts, binding screws, etc. from the various connectors on the
back panel and/or knobs etc. from the switchgear on top.

--
Andrew Erickson

"He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot
lose." -- Jim Elliot

"Andrew Erickson" wrote in message
...
In article ,
jakdedert wrote:

Roy wrote:
Thanks for the responses guys. I will probably be ok once I manage to
get
into the beast (one of the reasons I was after a service manual). So
far
have removed all of the arrowed screws on the underside together with a
couple that were not arrowed. (7 x 20mm round head, 2 x 12mm roundhead
and
2
x 20mm countersunk).The only ones I have not removed are four marked
"Do
Not
Remove" (natch!). Judging by the spacing I think they are probably
securing
the power supply/transformer. The top does still not want to part
company
with the bottom and I do not want to start jemmying. It seems to
seperate
by
about 20mm all the way round except at the back.

Roy


Use something like a heavy guitar pick to work around the seam. Likely
either top needs to flex in, or vice versa, to release a tab.

(Almost as likely: you've already figured this out....)

This probably goes without saying, but it might be necessary to remove
any grub nuts, binding screws, etc. from the various connectors on the
back panel and/or knobs etc. from the switchgear on top.

--
Andrew Erickson

"He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot
lose." -- Jim Elliot

Hi again guys, finally managed to get into the beast. The screw in the
middle was an absolute pig to remove. Turning the unit rightside up, I was
able to flip the lid over to the rear. This revealed a pleasant surprise,
not a surface mount component in sight! Oh Joy!. The keyboard itself was a
complete unit retained by 4 screws into the cabinet base, electrically
connected via a pcb connector on a short ribbon cable to one of the main
boards so I was able to remove it in its entirety. The contacts, if you can
call them that, look like short lengths of springy heavy gauge silvered
guitar string, soldered at pcb ends and passing between two wire contacts to
the end of the key. The wires to the ends of the dead keys had popped out of
the ends of the keys. Fixed in a jiffy! The other fault with the key
standing proud of the others seems to be the loss of a plastic or rubber
stop which fits on a metal tab beneath the key. It doesnt seem to be
floating around in the cabinet anywhere so I will probably improvise
something ie bit of coax sleeving or somesuch. I an going to have to remove
the key to get at it though - and its not immediately apparent what holds
the keys on.
Thanks for all the help and advice so far.

Roy

Roy wrote in message
...

"Andrew Erickson" wrote in message
...
In article ,
jakdedert wrote:

Roy wrote:
Thanks for the responses guys. I will probably be ok once I manage to
get
into the beast (one of the reasons I was after a service manual). So
far
have removed all of the arrowed screws on the underside together with
a
couple that were not arrowed. (7 x 20mm round head, 2 x 12mm
roundhead
and
2
x 20mm countersunk).The only ones I have not removed are four marked
"Do
Not
Remove" (natch!). Judging by the spacing I think they are probably
securing
the power supply/transformer. The top does still not want to part
company
with the bottom and I do not want to start jemmying. It seems to
seperate
by
about 20mm all the way round except at the back.

Roy


Use something like a heavy guitar pick to work around the seam. Likely
either top needs to flex in, or vice versa, to release a tab.

(Almost as likely: you've already figured this out....)

This probably goes without saying, but it might be necessary to remove
any grub nuts, binding screws, etc. from the various connectors on the
back panel and/or knobs etc. from the switchgear on top.

--
Andrew Erickson

"He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he
cannot
lose." -- Jim Elliot

Hi again guys, finally managed to get into the beast. The screw in the
middle was an absolute pig to remove. Turning the unit rightside up, I was
able to flip the lid over to the rear. This revealed a pleasant surprise,
not a surface mount component in sight! Oh Joy!. The keyboard itself was a
complete unit retained by 4 screws into the cabinet base, electrically
connected via a pcb connector on a short ribbon cable to one of the main
boards so I was able to remove it in its entirety. The contacts, if you
can
call them that, look like short lengths of springy heavy gauge silvered
guitar string, soldered at pcb ends and passing between two wire contacts
to
the end of the key. The wires to the ends of the dead keys had popped out
of
the ends of the keys. Fixed in a jiffy! The other fault with the key
standing proud of the others seems to be the loss of a plastic or rubber
stop which fits on a metal tab beneath the key. It doesnt seem to be
floating around in the cabinet anywhere so I will probably improvise
something ie bit of coax sleeving or somesuch. I an going to have to
remove
the key to get at it though - and its not immediately apparent what holds
the keys on.
Thanks for all the help and advice so far.

Roy



I usually use a bit of silicone sleeving for those rubbery things. If it is
the wrong sort of material it grabs at the key, it should be only slightly
resistive to motion , ie a damper of sorts AFAIK. You may want to swap
it/them with those under keys at the, less used, high or low end of the
keyboard as they are quite critical to the action of the keys.


--
Diverse Devices, Southampton, England
electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list on
http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/