I want to keep some NiMH rechargeable 9v batteries in my tool bag (well, my
meter bag, actually). I am currently running a double loop of electrical tape
around the entire battery to insulate the terminals.

I'd like to use something more durable (one battery has had a terminal peek
through the tape) and was thinking about something like a battery terminal
connector but made of insulating material like nylon (probably of some
cheaper plastic).

Does such a thing exist? I did web searches, but maybe my terminology isn't
spot-on...

Ideas?

Thanks,
--
DaveC

This is an invalid return address
Please reply in the news group

I've seen all-plastic plugs for 9V batteries that were designed for just
this purpose. But they came on batteries supplied with a product. I've never
seen them for commercial sale.

How about punching two holes in a block of foam, then taping it on?

In article .net,
DaveC wrote:
I want to keep some NiMH rechargeable 9v batteries in my tool bag (well,
my meter bag, actually). I am currently running a double loop of
electrical tape around the entire battery to insulate the terminals.

I'd like to use something more durable (one battery has had a terminal
peek through the tape) and was thinking about something like a battery
terminal connector but made of insulating material like nylon (probably
of some cheaper plastic).

Does such a thing exist? I did web searches, but maybe my terminology
isn't spot-on...

Pro Duracells PP3 size in the UK come with a plastic clip on cover for the
positive terminal as they are usually supplied in bulk - ie no individual
wrapping. So that's to prevent shorts in a partially emptied box.
Find a film or TV crew and ask the sound guy for some.

--
*Your kid may be an honours student, but you're still an idiot.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

DaveC wrote:
I want to keep some NiMH rechargeable 9v batteries in my tool bag (well, my
meter bag, actually). I am currently running a double loop of electrical tape
around the entire battery to insulate the terminals.

I'd like to use something more durable (one battery has had a terminal peek
through the tape) and was thinking about something like a battery terminal
connector but made of insulating material like nylon (probably of some
cheaper plastic).

Does such a thing exist? I did web searches, but maybe my terminology isn't
spot-on...

Ideas?

Thanks,

An old-time solution would be to put some fish paper under the tape.

Cheers,

Phil Hobbs

DaveC wrote:
I want to keep some NiMH rechargeable 9v batteries in my tool bag (well, my
meter bag, actually). I am currently running a double loop of electrical tape
around the entire battery to insulate the terminals.

I'd like to use something more durable (one battery has had a terminal peek
through the tape) and was thinking about something like a battery terminal
connector but made of insulating material like nylon (probably of some
cheaper plastic).

Does such a thing exist? I did web searches, but maybe my terminology isn't
spot-on...

Start harvesting the snap-on battery cords from dead electronics. Cut
the wires off short (preferably inside the vinyl housing a bit). Snap
them on -- there you are!

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Do you need to implement control loops in software?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" gives you just what it says.
See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html

In article ,
Tim Wescott wrote:
Start harvesting the snap-on battery cords from dead electronics. Cut
the wires off short (preferably inside the vinyl housing a bit). Snap
them on -- there you are!

Most of those break after a few operations.

You could take a dead battery apart and use the connector block from that
after insulating. Usually far stronger than the wire ended connectors.

--
*Microsoft broke Volkswagen's record: They only made 21.4 million bugs.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

DaveC wrote:

I want to keep some NiMH rechargeable 9v batteries in my tool bag (well, my
meter bag, actually). I am currently running a double loop of electrical tape
around the entire battery to insulate the terminals.

I'd like to use something more durable (one battery has had a terminal peek
through the tape) and was thinking about something like a battery terminal
connector but made of insulating material like nylon (probably of some
cheaper plastic).

Does such a thing exist? I did web searches, but maybe my terminology isn't
spot-on...

Ideas?


Small 4 mil ziplock bags. Put the batteries in them with the
terminals towards the zipper. Put the dead ones back in, in the other
direction so you can tell them apart.


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There are two kinds of people on this earth:
The crazy, and the insane.
The first sign of insanity is denying that you're crazy.

DaveC wrote:

I want to keep some NiMH rechargeable 9v batteries in my tool bag (well, my
meter bag, actually). I am currently running a double loop of electrical tape
around the entire battery to insulate the terminals.

I'd like to use something more durable (one battery has had a terminal peek
through the tape) and was thinking about something like a battery terminal
connector but made of insulating material like nylon (probably of some
cheaper plastic).

Does such a thing exist? I did web searches, but maybe my terminology isn't
spot-on...

Ideas?


http://www.keyelco.com/products/prod37.asp?SubCategoryID=24


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There are two kinds of people on this earth:
The crazy, and the insane.
The first sign of insanity is denying that you're crazy.

On 16 Dec, 19:05, Tim Wescott wrote:
DaveC wrote:
I want to keep some NiMH rechargeable 9v batteries in my tool bag (well, my
meter bag, actually). I am currently running a double loop of electrical tape
around the entire battery to insulate the terminals.

I'd like to use something more durable (one battery has had a terminal peek
through the tape) and was thinking about something like a battery terminal
connector but made of insulating material like nylon (probably of some
cheaper plastic).

Does such a thing exist? I did web searches, but maybe my terminology isn't
spot-on...

Start harvesting the snap-on battery cords from dead electronics. *Cut
the wires off short (preferably inside the vinyl housing a bit). *Snap
them on -- there you are!

You can buy such cords, but the cheapest/fastest solution is to take
apart a dead battery and tape up the back side, with a bit of plastic
behind to prevent rubbing through -- the battery may have this anyway.

In my impoverished schooldays, no battery was ever thrown away without
salvaging the connectors.

Chris

DaveC wrote:

I want to keep some NiMH rechargeable 9v batteries in my tool bag (well, my
meter bag, actually). I am currently running a double loop of electrical tape
around the entire battery to insulate the terminals.

I'd like to use something more durable (one battery has had a terminal peek
through the tape) and was thinking about something like a battery terminal
connector but made of insulating material like nylon (probably of some
cheaper plastic).

Does such a thing exist? I did web searches, but maybe my terminology isn't
spot-on...

Ideas?

Mouser has the keystone part in stock:

http://www.mouser.com/search/ProductDetail.aspx?qs=pkhVRPZ8ecCfeeQeYtldRQ%3d%3d

1: $0.22
100: $0.11
500: $0.10
1,000: $0.08
5,000: $0.07
10,000: $0.06


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There are two kinds of people on this earth:
The crazy, and the insane.
The first sign of insanity is denying that you're crazy.

BobW wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
m...

DaveC wrote:

I want to keep some NiMH rechargeable 9v batteries in my tool bag (well,
my
meter bag, actually). I am currently running a double loop of electrical
tape
around the entire battery to insulate the terminals.

I'd like to use something more durable (one battery has had a terminal
peek
through the tape) and was thinking about something like a battery
terminal
connector but made of insulating material like nylon (probably of some
cheaper plastic).

Does such a thing exist? I did web searches, but maybe my terminology
isn't
spot-on...

Ideas?


http://www.keyelco.com/products/prod37.asp?SubCategoryID=24



Congratulations, Michael! You're the winner!


Thanks. Keystone has always had odd, but useful niche products. They
came through lots of times, when no one else came close. They also have
the best 9 volt battery connectors I've ever used. I used to repair VHF
walkie talkies and used their part number 83 for the replacement battery
packs I built, and the OEM packs that were built with the five cent
chinese parts.

http://www.keyelco.com/products/specs/spec54.asp (In the third column)
they are available with different length leads. I used the six inch and
ran the extra wire between the two columns of cells. That brought the
wires out the other end, for good strain relief. I used old business
cards over each end before shrinking the thin white heat shrink. I also
wrote the date & customer's name with an ultra fine line sharpie before
applying the heat. That melted the information into the heatshrink so it
couldn't rub off, or be removed. It stopped them from trying to claim a
new battery was bad. I no longer had to cut the heat shrink off to show
the date codes.


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There are two kinds of people on this earth:
The crazy, and the insane.
The first sign of insanity is denying that you're crazy.

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in
m:

http://www.keyelco.com/products/prod37.asp?SubCategoryID=24


"Available in Non-conductive Material"
Highly amusing. I was wondering what other kind they had in mind.

"DaveC" wrote in message
obal.net
I want to keep some NiMH rechargeable 9v batteries in my tool bag
(well, my meter bag, actually). I am currently running a double loop
of electrical tape around the entire battery to insulate the
terminals.

I'd like to use something more durable (one battery has had a
terminal peek through the tape) and was thinking about something like
a battery terminal connector but made of insulating material like
nylon (probably of some cheaper plastic).

Does such a thing exist? I did web searches, but maybe my terminology
isn't spot-on...

http://www.stockcap.com/rubber-caps.html

Ooh, free samples and small quantities.

And they have square ones too.


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Reply in group, but if emailing add one more
zero, and remove the last word.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Tim Wescott wrote:
Start harvesting the snap-on battery cords from dead electronics. Cut
the wires off short (preferably inside the vinyl housing a bit). Snap
them on -- there you are!

Most of those break after a few operations.

You could take a dead battery apart and use the connector block from that
after insulating. Usually far stronger than the wire ended connectors.


That would be my suggestion, you could insulate the terminal rivets with
blobs of epoxy glue or with some makes of battery the blank plastic insert
from the bottom could be superglued on for insulation.

On Dec 16, 9:06*am, DaveC wrote:
I want to keep some NiMH rechargeable 9v batteries in my tool bag (well, my
meter bag, actually). I am currently running a double loop of electrical tape
around the entire battery to insulate the terminals.

I'd like to use something more durable

I just use some stiff paper, wrap one end of the battery
like an Xmas present, and tape the paper. This makes
a paper friction-fit cap, which has never failed me.

Strapping tape is permanent enough, but some kinds of
book-repair (urethane?) tape are better. Kapton is overkill,
but... the problem gets dead, it stays dead... that works.

On Tue, 16 Dec 2008 13:52:16 -0500, the renowned "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


BobW wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
m...

DaveC wrote:

I want to keep some NiMH rechargeable 9v batteries in my tool bag (well,
my
meter bag, actually). I am currently running a double loop of electrical
tape
around the entire battery to insulate the terminals.

I'd like to use something more durable (one battery has had a terminal
peek
through the tape) and was thinking about something like a battery
terminal
connector but made of insulating material like nylon (probably of some
cheaper plastic).

Does such a thing exist? I did web searches, but maybe my terminology
isn't
spot-on...

Ideas?


http://www.keyelco.com/products/prod37.asp?SubCategoryID=24



Congratulations, Michael! You're the winner!


Thanks. Keystone has always had odd, but useful niche products. They
came through lots of times, when no one else came close. They also have
the best 9 volt battery connectors I've ever used. I used to repair VHF
walkie talkies and used their part number 83 for the replacement battery
packs I built, and the OEM packs that were built with the five cent
chinese parts.

FIVE CENTS!!??!! Solid gold were they?


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

Spehro Pefhany wrote:

On Tue, 16 Dec 2008 13:52:16 -0500, the renowned "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


BobW wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
m...

DaveC wrote:

I want to keep some NiMH rechargeable 9v batteries in my tool bag (well,
my
meter bag, actually). I am currently running a double loop of electrical
tape
around the entire battery to insulate the terminals.

I'd like to use something more durable (one battery has had a terminal
peek
through the tape) and was thinking about something like a battery
terminal
connector but made of insulating material like nylon (probably of some
cheaper plastic).

Does such a thing exist? I did web searches, but maybe my terminology
isn't
spot-on...

Ideas?


http://www.keyelco.com/products/prod37.asp?SubCategoryID=24



Congratulations, Michael! You're the winner!


Thanks. Keystone has always had odd, but useful niche products. They
came through lots of times, when no one else came close. They also have
the best 9 volt battery connectors I've ever used. I used to repair VHF
walkie talkies and used their part number 83 for the replacement battery
packs I built, and the OEM packs that were built with the five cent
chinese parts.

FIVE CENTS!!??!! Solid gold were they?


With their poor quality they were only worth five cents, by the
hundred.


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There are two kinds of people on this earth:
The crazy, and the insane.
The first sign of insanity is denying that you're crazy.

DaveC wrote:
I want to keep some NiMH rechargeable 9v batteries in my tool bag (well, my
meter bag, actually). I am currently running a double loop of electrical tape
around the entire battery to insulate the terminals.

I'd like to use something more durable (one battery has had a terminal peek
through the tape) and was thinking about something like a battery terminal
connector but made of insulating material like nylon (probably of some
cheaper plastic).

Does such a thing exist? I did web searches, but maybe my terminology isn't
spot-on...

Ideas?

Thanks,
Heat shrink tubing would do fine.

On Dec 16, 9:06*am, DaveC wrote:
I want to keep some NiMH rechargeable 9v batteries in my tool bag (well, my
meter bag, actually).

I use old prescription pill bottles to hold spare batteries. The size
I have hold two AA type cells or a 9V type perfectly. The twist on/off
security cap makes a tight seal to protect other items in the satchel
in the event that the batteries were to leak. Sometimes these bottles
stay around a long time if spares are not used very often. In those
cases I'll insert a small paper in the bottle with the date scribbled
on it. When a spare set is deployed the paper is thrown away and the
used batteries can be placed in the same container until they can be
properly added to the collection bucket at the local hardware store.

- mkaras

DaveC wrote:
I want to keep some NiMH rechargeable 9v batteries in my tool bag (well, my
meter bag, actually). I am currently running a double loop of electrical tape
around the entire battery to insulate the terminals.

I'd like to use something more durable (one battery has had a terminal peek
through the tape) and was thinking about something like a battery terminal
connector but made of insulating material like nylon (probably of some
cheaper plastic).

Does such a thing exist? I did web searches, but maybe my terminology isn't
spot-on...

Ideas?

Thanks,

As Michael pointed out, the same caps that Duracells ship with are
available in aftermarket. Personally, I just use a piece of gaffers
(duct) tape, line the cells up--terminals down, adhesive side up--then
fold the tape down over the sides. That's enough to keep them from
shorting together. Put in a drawer or box, they won't short to anything
else.

YMMV...the goo from the tape is sometimes an issue.

jak

On Tue, 16 Dec 2008 21:38:29 -0600, the renowned jakdedert
wrote:

DaveC wrote:
I want to keep some NiMH rechargeable 9v batteries in my tool bag (well, my
meter bag, actually). I am currently running a double loop of electrical tape
around the entire battery to insulate the terminals.

I'd like to use something more durable (one battery has had a terminal peek
through the tape) and was thinking about something like a battery terminal
connector but made of insulating material like nylon (probably of some
cheaper plastic).

Does such a thing exist? I did web searches, but maybe my terminology isn't
spot-on...

Ideas?

Thanks,

As Michael pointed out, the same caps that Duracells ship with are
available in aftermarket. Personally, I just use a piece of gaffers
(duct) tape, line the cells up--terminals down, adhesive side up--then
fold the tape down over the sides. That's enough to keep them from
shorting together. Put in a drawer or box, they won't short to anything
else.

YMMV...the goo from the tape is sometimes an issue.

jak

Now if it's AA/AAA/CR123 cells you want to protect, there are nice
little soft plastic snap boxes available that work fine. Dealextreme
sells a set of 3 4-cell AA boxes for $2.50. Pricey for a few bits of
plastic, but that includes worldwide shipping. I use them for NiMH AA
cells. You often get them for free when you buy a set of 4 cells.

Just out of curiosity, what are you using that requires a 9V
rechargable battery? Something special? Most occasional-use meters and
such like are better off with a 9V primary cell because of the low
self discharge rate of primary cells compared to NiMH.


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

Spehro Pefhany wrote:
On Tue, 16 Dec 2008 21:38:29 -0600, the renowned jakdedert
wrote:

DaveC wrote:
I want to keep some NiMH rechargeable 9v batteries in my tool bag (well, my
meter bag, actually). I am currently running a double loop of electrical tape
around the entire battery to insulate the terminals.

I'd like to use something more durable (one battery has had a terminal peek
through the tape) and was thinking about something like a battery terminal
connector but made of insulating material like nylon (probably of some
cheaper plastic).

Does such a thing exist? I did web searches, but maybe my terminology isn't
spot-on...

Ideas?

Thanks,
As Michael pointed out, the same caps that Duracells ship with are
available in aftermarket. Personally, I just use a piece of gaffers
(duct) tape, line the cells up--terminals down, adhesive side up--then
fold the tape down over the sides. That's enough to keep them from
shorting together. Put in a drawer or box, they won't short to anything
else.

YMMV...the goo from the tape is sometimes an issue.

jak

Now if it's AA/AAA/CR123 cells you want to protect, there are nice
little soft plastic snap boxes available that work fine. Dealextreme
sells a set of 3 4-cell AA boxes for $2.50. Pricey for a few bits of
plastic, but that includes worldwide shipping. I use them for NiMH AA
cells. You often get them for free when you buy a set of 4 cells.

Just out of curiosity, what are you using that requires a 9V
rechargable battery? Something special? Most occasional-use meters and
such like are better off with a 9V primary cell because of the low
self discharge rate of primary cells compared to NiMH.


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany

To be honest, I don't use them for anything. My comments referred to
alkalines used in wireless mics and other sound equipment. I save the
used batteries in the manner suggested above. 9v's are expensive.
While I wouldn't use them again professionally, we change them at almost
every opportunity, since the expense is trivial compared to a dead mic
during a show or presentation. As such, they are still useful for less
demanding applications.

I also wouldn't use rechargables for the application; but the size,
shape and intent are close enough for the method to be useful to the OP.

jak

In article ,
jakdedert wrote:
To be honest, I don't use them for anything. My comments referred to
alkalines used in wireless mics and other sound equipment. I save the
used batteries in the manner suggested above. 9v's are expensive.
While I wouldn't use them again professionally, we change them at almost
every opportunity, since the expense is trivial compared to a dead mic
during a show or presentation.

Surely the client effectively pays for them?

But if you're using decent quality batteries and equipment, the life
should be pretty consistent. With mine, it's 9 hours so I change at 8. If
I were using them for an all day presentation where they could only be
changed at say the lunch break, good rechargeables *might* be worth it.
Assuming your mics have an SMPS that can work on the lower voltage.

But as I said earlier, 'pro' batteries bought by the box already come with
a clip on protector. Or do in the UK. And are cheaper per unit than buying
retail - unless you're willing to use no name stuff. At the moment I'm
using Energiser.

--
*There are two kinds of pedestrians... the quick and the dead.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:

In article ,
jakdedert wrote:
To be honest, I don't use them for anything. My comments referred to
alkalines used in wireless mics and other sound equipment. I save the
used batteries in the manner suggested above. 9v's are expensive.
While I wouldn't use them again professionally, we change them at almost
every opportunity, since the expense is trivial compared to a dead mic
during a show or presentation.

Surely the client effectively pays for them?


He is in the convention business. The mics are used to at least half
battery life, per use. Rather than take a chance of one dying before a
second use is over, the battery is replaced. It's figured to be a
consumable item like gaffer's tape & light bulbs.


But if you're using decent quality batteries and equipment, the life
should be pretty consistent. With mine, it's 9 hours so I change at 8. If
I were using them for an all day presentation where they could only be
changed at say the lunch break, good rechargeables *might* be worth it.
Assuming your mics have an SMPS that can work on the lower voltage.

But as I said earlier, 'pro' batteries bought by the box already come with
a clip on protector. Or do in the UK. And are cheaper per unit than buying
retail - unless you're willing to use no name stuff. At the moment I'm
using Energiser.


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There are two kinds of people on this earth:
The crazy, and the insane.
The first sign of insanity is denying that you're crazy.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
jakdedert wrote:
To be honest, I don't use them for anything. My comments referred to
alkalines used in wireless mics and other sound equipment. I save the
used batteries in the manner suggested above. 9v's are expensive.
While I wouldn't use them again professionally, we change them at almost
every opportunity, since the expense is trivial compared to a dead mic
during a show or presentation.

Surely the client effectively pays for them?

But if you're using decent quality batteries and equipment, the life
should be pretty consistent. With mine, it's 9 hours so I change at 8. If
I were using them for an all day presentation where they could only be
changed at say the lunch break, good rechargeables *might* be worth it.
Assuming your mics have an SMPS that can work on the lower voltage.

But as I said earlier, 'pro' batteries bought by the box already come with
a clip on protector. Or do in the UK. And are cheaper per unit than buying
retail - unless you're willing to use no name stuff. At the moment I'm
using Energiser.

ProCells are well discounted and often two boxes for the price of one at
CPC in Preston. My last batch of PP3`s worked out around 80p each.

Ron(UK)

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
jakdedert wrote:
To be honest, I don't use them for anything. My comments referred to
alkalines used in wireless mics and other sound equipment. I save the
used batteries in the manner suggested above. 9v's are expensive.
While I wouldn't use them again professionally, we change them at almost
every opportunity, since the expense is trivial compared to a dead mic
during a show or presentation.

Surely the client effectively pays for them?

When I say they're expensive, I'm speaking as a consumer. A card of two
name-brand 9v's might be as much as $8 in a convenience store. That's a
lot to pay for a backup battery in an alarm clock (the usual destination
for my used cells), or a toddlers toy. Servicable cells are a perk of
the job. I never buy them, either way (unless jobs with 9v's haven't
come my way lately). Professionally, the client pays. Personally, I
get free batteries.

Either way the cost (to me) is trivial.

But if you're using decent quality batteries and equipment, the life
should be pretty consistent. With mine, it's 9 hours so I change at 8. If
I were using them for an all day presentation where they could only be
changed at say the lunch break, good rechargeables *might* be worth it.
Assuming your mics have an SMPS that can work on the lower voltage.

The breaks don't always come at 8 hours. So, as you say, at lunch I'd
change them, depending on the projected balance of the presentation.
I'd also watch the reciever battery indicators like a hawk if they
started to get low. I've been known to sneak up and change them on the fly.

But as I said earlier, 'pro' batteries bought by the box already come with
a clip on protector. Or do in the UK. And are cheaper per unit than buying
retail - unless you're willing to use no name stuff. At the moment I'm
using Energiser.

I've never bught (my clients haven't, actually) anything but Procells.
I don't--and I don't allow anyone to--put the protectors back on the
cells, or put them back in a used box. In the box--or protector
on--means 'new battery' to me. Too much trouble to keep track during
the heat of battle. If the stagehands or anyone else want the used
cells, they need to get them out of my sight.

I don't have time to check (or recharge) used batteries. I do check the
mic's indicator whenever I change out the cells, though. I've never
gotten a bad Procell; but there's a first time for everything.

jak

jakdedert wrote in
:

I don't have time to check (or recharge) used batteries.

No-one's time should be that important unless they're saving a life or
something. Time these devices were fitted with lithium ion batteries.
Changing out sets of those occurs less because the energy density is good,
there;s no 'memory effect' or other reason not to top up on demand, the cost
can be low enough to compete with Procells, and changing them is as fast, or
faster, given no fiddly pop-cap connector to mess with. And you top up your
batteries at night in a charger and in the morning you have lots of new
batteries. Their energy density is good enough that you'll likely get through
a day or more of the demands a microphone makes, so if time really IS si
desperately im,piortant that you think you can't find enough to charge a
battery, think again. It will save you more than it costs.

The only serious obstacle is the possible lack of 9V PP3 shaped lithium ion
types. I don't think I've seen any yet. But a decent mic could use a DC-DC
converter and run off one or two standard CR123's just fine, and for a lot
longer too. The use of space for chemical reaction is far better in large
cells than groups of small ones.

jakdedert wrote:
I've never
gotten a bad Procell; but there's a first time for everything.

I have! several times. PP3`s suffering sudden infant death - I always
let radio mikes run for at least 15 minutes before a show where I can.
I`ve never had a faulty AA, but as you say there`s always a first time.
and I never ever use rechargables in radio packs.

ROn(UK)

Ron Johnson wrote:
jakdedert wrote:
I've never
gotten a bad Procell; but there's a first time for everything.

I have! several times. PP3`s suffering sudden infant death - I always
let radio mikes run for at least 15 minutes before a show where I can.
I`ve never had a faulty AA, but as you say there`s always a first time.
and I never ever use rechargables in radio packs.

ROn(UK)

As i just said in another post, most mics these days use AA's. Last
tour I had 11 presentation systems, each with four RF receivers; and
each receiver had a lav pack and a handheld mic...presenter's choice.
That's a lot of batteries (two per). Additionally, we had a general
session (the 'main tent') with a dozen RF mics. I never got a bad
battery, but I didn't have time to monitor each mic for 15 minutes,
either. Usually either I (or my designated crew) checked batteries on
each major break and replaced if below full scale on the mic battery
indicator.

All that said, I did have to shepherd eight walkie-talkies that all used
rechargeables. That was trouble enough....

jak

On Wed, 17 Dec 2008 04:03:52 -0000, Spehro Pefhany wrote:

On Tue, 16 Dec 2008 21:38:29 -0600, the renowned jakdedert
wrote:

DaveC wrote:
I want to keep some NiMH rechargeable 9v batteries in my tool bag (well, my
meter bag, actually). I am currently running a double loop of electrical tape
around the entire battery to insulate the terminals.

I'd like to use something more durable (one battery has had a terminal peek
through the tape) and was thinking about something like a battery terminal
connector but made of insulating material like nylon (probably of some
cheaper plastic).

Does such a thing exist? I did web searches, but maybe my terminology isn't
spot-on...

Ideas?

Thanks,

As Michael pointed out, the same caps that Duracells ship with are
available in aftermarket. Personally, I just use a piece of gaffers
(duct) tape, line the cells up--terminals down, adhesive side up--then
fold the tape down over the sides. That's enough to keep them from
shorting together. Put in a drawer or box, they won't short to anything
else.

YMMV...the goo from the tape is sometimes an issue.

jak

Now if it's AA/AAA/CR123 cells you want to protect, there are nice
little soft plastic snap boxes available that work fine. Dealextreme
sells a set of 3 4-cell AA boxes for $2.50. Pricey for a few bits of
plastic, but that includes worldwide shipping. I use them for NiMH AA
cells. You often get them for free when you buy a set of 4 cells.

Just out of curiosity, what are you using that requires a 9V
rechargable battery? Something special? Most occasional-use meters and
such like are better off with a 9V primary cell because of the low
self discharge rate of primary cells compared to NiMH.

The new type (eg. Uniross Hybrio) of NiMH have a very low self discharge. The only problem is certain devices like smoke alarms not liking the slightly lower voltage.

--
http://www.petersparrots.com http://www.insanevideoclips.com http://www.petersphotos.com

_.-"-._
_.-' `-._
_.-' `-,-"-._
|-._ _.-'" `-._
_.-"-._`-._ _.-' `-,-"-._
_.-' `-._`-._|-._ _.-'" `-._
_.-' `-._| `-._ _.-"-,-' `-._
"-._ _.-| _.-" "`-._ _.-"
`-._ _.-'_.-"-,-' `-._ _.-'
`-._ _.-'_.-' "`-._ _.-|_.-'
|_.-' `-._ _.-' "
"-._ _.-|_.-'
`-._ _.-' "
`-._ _.-'
"

... and I never ever use rechargables in radio packs.
ROn(UK)

Why? [if you wouldn't mind a newbie question...]
--
John English

John E. wrote:
... and I never ever use rechargables in radio packs.
ROn(UK)

Why? [if you wouldn't mind a newbie question...]

See my multiple posts on the subject. For most presentation purposes,
the proven reliability of the good old alkaline--fresh out of the
box--is superior. One less thing to worry about in a complex and
demanding environment.

The cost of having a show 'go down' is much more than that of fresh
cells...especially if the cost is losing your job.

jak

In article .net,
John E. wrote:
... and I never ever use rechargables in radio packs.
ROn(UK)

Why? [if you wouldn't mind a newbie question...]

My answer would be is you can virtually guarantee the performance of a
decent make alkaline. And I sometimes use a great deal - my personal
record for number of radio mics is 38 at once. It really is rare to get a
faulty battery.

Trouble with rechargeables is they don't maintain the same performance
throughout their life - which makes knowing when they must be changed
rather hit or miss. Plus the fact that most give little warning of running
out - unlike an alkaline - due to the different voltage discharge curves.
So what might be a benefit on a high power demand device like a drill etc
is a liability on a low current one.

Of course if you know they will only be used for a short time - like say a
church service - rechargeables can and do make sense. But this isn't
usually the case for film, TV and conference etc use.

--
*Do infants enjoy infancy as much as adults enjoy adultery?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in
:

Trouble with rechargeables is they don't maintain the same performance
throughout their life - which makes knowing when they must be changed
rather hit or miss. Plus the fact that most give little warning of running
out - unlike an alkaline - due to the different voltage discharge curves.
So what might be a benefit on a high power demand device like a drill etc
is a liability on a low current one.

All of which makes perfect sense - in the context of a NiMH or NiCd. As most
of this talk has gone to discussing microphones, consider a moderate steady
load. You want that to be supplied with equal constancy, if possible. If
nothing else you know what you'll get during the discharge if it IS constant
in voltage and has adequate current. Lithium ion cells do this fine. They
fall off at the end but not so fast as Ni-based cells. Actually the fade time
at end of discharge when powering a microphone should be fairly long, you'd
get early warning if you knew what to look for. You might still get a couple
of hours of use from start to end of fall anyway, if current demand is less
than 50 mA (examples below), given two CR123A cells. Total use is more than a
half a day easily, even with the lower 800 mAH capacity. With light loads the
safety is very good. Newer batteries even have the clout to power a drill, if
they have lithium titanate anodes. Their shelf life is actually BEST at
around 40% charge so they don't mind being left waiting around, and they can
be charged at any time. They store very well when cold so they won't mind
travel in an unheated truck. They work fine at sub-freezing temperatures too,
so long as you don't go too low, and not many things demand that of them in
use.

Time to running flat is long enough to give you the nice early warning you
can expect from alkalines, but is flatter for longer, before that happens.
And when you've charged them many times, the loss of capacity even after
hundreds of charges and a couple of years of use, will still give you better
performance after a charge, than an alkaline fresh out of the box. If you
charge them each night they'll probably never run flat, and as they'll spend
most of their lives at around 40% charge, give or take 40%, they should last
a long time.

If reliability is critical, run their first couple of charges in a non-
critical situation. Label them with coloured electricians' insulating tape to
code them, or whatever it takes to identify and organise. If I had to put
batteries in 100 microphones I'd rather use lithium ions than alkalines given
what I've seen of them so far on similar steady loads in critical situations
(hours in cold and darkness with a flashlight making the difference between
safety and injury).



http://web.telia.com/~u85920178/tx/bug.htm
http://www.zingsmusic.com/product_in...oducts_id=4483
(Two different systems, same 30 mA supply current, so I'm assuming it's a
good guide).
That said, this one takes 50 mA..
http://www.shure.com/ProAudio/Produc...us_pro_104c_ug

jakdedert wrote:
John E. wrote:
... and I never ever use rechargables in radio packs.
ROn(UK)

Why? [if you wouldn't mind a newbie question...]

See my multiple posts on the subject. For most presentation purposes,
the proven reliability of the good old alkaline--fresh out of the
box--is superior. One less thing to worry about in a complex and
demanding environment.

The cost of having a show 'go down' is much more than that of fresh
cells...especially if the cost is losing your job.


What he said. The risk just isn't worth it for the price of a few
batteries.
There`s also the factor that some low end radio mikes seem to object to
rechargable batteries (certainly nicads) It`s possibly the batteries
internal resistance changing as it discharges.
I`ve not really studied it, but when the rechargable discharges beyond
a certain point, the transmitters agc seems to get screwed up and
unstable, feedback is the result. Maybe someone with more technical
understanding can explain.

Ron(UK)

On Thu, 18 Dec 2008 00:08:20 -0000, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article .net,
John E. wrote:
... and I never ever use rechargables in radio packs.
ROn(UK)

Why? [if you wouldn't mind a newbie question...]

My answer would be is you can virtually guarantee the performance of a
decent make alkaline. And I sometimes use a great deal - my personal
record for number of radio mics is 38 at once. It really is rare to get a
faulty battery.

Trouble with rechargeables is they don't maintain the same performance
throughout their life - which makes knowing when they must be changed
rather hit or miss. Plus the fact that most give little warning of running
out - unlike an alkaline - due to the different voltage discharge curves.
So what might be a benefit on a high power demand device like a drill etc
is a liability on a low current one.

Of course if you know they will only be used for a short time - like say a
church service - rechargeables can and do make sense. But this isn't
usually the case for film, TV and conference etc use.

Then use the new type of NiMH, the pre-charged ones which don't lose power sat on the shelf. Take them out the packet and they are as good as alkalines. Only keep them for a fraction of their life if you want a nice long charge, and put them in a trickle charger when not in use.

--
http://www.petersparrots.com http://www.insanevideoclips.com http://www.petersphotos.com

"It is generally inadvisable to eject directly over the area you just bombed." - U.S. Air Force Pilot training manual

Peter Hucker wrote:

Then use the new type of NiMH, the pre-charged ones which don't lose
power sat on the shelf. Take them out the packet and they are as good as
alkalines. Only keep them for a fraction of their life if you want a
nice long charge, and put them in a trickle charger when not in use.


There are three problems with them. The first is that they are supplied
charged, but only about 80% charged. While they take longer to discharge
on their own, if they sit on the shelf for a year or so, they very well
may be flat.

The second is that they do not reach their full capacity when recharged
until they have been through 3 or 4 recharge cycles. I have found with
the ones I bought it took even longer, sometimes 10 cycles to get
any useful life out of them.

The third is that they have a higher internal resistance which limits their
output current. That is why the rechargeable alkelines that came out around
1995 never really took off. They were lower in capacity to the disposable
ones (about 80%) to allow room for expansion, and they did not put out
the current that nicads or regular alkelines did.

They also do not charge as fast. I charge mine in a 7 hour NiMH charger,
but have to do it twice. Using the little fixed rate charger that came
with a set, I have to charge then for at least 24 hours.

Geoff.

--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel N3OWJ/4X1GM

Peter Hucker wrote:

snip

Then use the new type of NiMH, the pre-charged ones which don't lose power sat on the shelf. Take them out the packet and they are as good as alkalines. Only keep them for a fraction of their life if you want a nice long charge, and put them in a trickle charger when not in use.


In a word; no.

We don't have trickle chargers in the truck that takes them to the next
city; nor the time to monitor their health. A new Procell is a 'known'
resource. It always works, IME. It always lasts about the same amount
of time. When it's exhausted (actually long before) we discard it--or
switch it to less demanding tasks--and grab a new one (which will last
exactly as long as the last one did). I have a box of used ones right
across the room. Want some? They're great for kids toys, flashlights,
portable radios etc.

You're not listening. Use them yourself if you want to. I value my job
and my reputation much higher than the price of a new battery...or a
thousand of them.

jak

BobW wrote:
Do you have any info that indicates that they can't put out as much current
and/or have higher internal resistance (over time) compared with alkalines?

Sorry, I said two different things in the same paragraph and may have created
some confusion.

First the slow self-discharge rechargable batteries have a higher internal
resistance and lower output current than the "regular" ones of the same
chemistry.

Therefore "slow" NiMH batteries have a higher internal resistance, lower
output current and longer recharge times than regual NiMH batteries.


"Slow" alkeline batteries have a higher internal resistance, lower
output current and longer recharge times than regular alkeline batteries.

I mentioned the alkeline ones as their high internal resistance was a
deal killer for me. I could not use on HT's (handheld radios). They worked
fine with 1 watt output (low power), but on high power (3-4 watts), they
failed.

Going back to the NiMH batteries, I can't say how well they will hold up
over time. I only use them on MP3 players that take a single AAA battery.
So far it has not been good, the first batch to almost 10 cycles to
have any usefull capacity. It may also have been my fault, because I
charged them with the included charger which needed 24 hours or more
to charge them.

The second batch has been charged only with a higher current charger and
they seem fine.

Note that the players are low current devices, they discharge at about a
rate of 100ma or less.



I have been using the Hybrio hybrid batteries in a Canon SX100IS digital
camera for about a year now and I haven't noticed anything problematic about
them. They last a LONG time without any special conditioning. I use a Maha
MH-C401FS charger (set to 'slow').

I've used alkalines in several different cameras and have had horrible
results with them.

All alkelines have a higher internal resistance, which is probably why you
have the problem with them. If you are a camera buff, that was one of the
two differences between the Canon T-90 and EOS-1. The T-90 used AA batteries,
the EOS used lithium. Canon was unable to get the current they needed for
all of the electronics in the camera from AA batteries.

Geoff.


--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel N3OWJ/4X1GM

"Ron Johnson" wrote in message
...
jakdedert wrote:
John E. wrote:
... and I never ever use rechargables in radio packs.
ROn(UK)

Why? [if you wouldn't mind a newbie question...]

See my multiple posts on the subject. For most presentation purposes,
the proven reliability of the good old alkaline--fresh out of the box--is
superior. One less thing to worry about in a complex and demanding
environment.

The cost of having a show 'go down' is much more than that of fresh
cells...especially if the cost is losing your job.


What he said. The risk just isn't worth it for the price of a few
batteries.
There`s also the factor that some low end radio mikes seem to object to
rechargable batteries (certainly nicads) It`s possibly the batteries
internal resistance changing as it discharges.
I`ve not really studied it, but when the rechargable discharges beyond a
certain point, the transmitters agc seems to get screwed up and unstable,
feedback is the result. Maybe someone with more technical understanding
can explain.

Ron(UK)

You don't need much technical understanding to know that NiCd & NiMh
batteries have a lower terminal voltage.