DIYbanter - Burning smell, sparks and noise from Miele vacuum cleaner motor

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Burning smell, sparks and noise from Miele vacuum cleaner motor

The only electronics (on a face plate) attached to the motor are a ST
electronics BTB16 600BW chip (used for phase control in motor speed
controllers) and an unidentified cylindrical component marked only as
"43-02 97C".

Just curious whether the failure of either of these could be causing
the motor failure symptoms in the subject line,

Burning smell, sparks and noise from Miele vacuum cleaner motor

At about the time of 10/2/2008 1:20 AM, Graz stated the following:
The only electronics (on a face plate) attached to the motor are a ST
electronics BTB16 600BW chip (used for phase control in motor speed
controllers) and an unidentified cylindrical component marked only as
"43-02 97C".

Just curious whether the failure of either of these could be causing
the motor failure symptoms in the subject line,

That 43-02 sounds like a motor running capacitor...43uf maybe? The 97C
means that it will function correctly up to 97 degrees Celsius. A
failure of the cap will cause problems. The chip mentioned is not a IC
per say, but it's a triac.
http://www.datasheetcatalog.org/data...onics/7471.pdf is
the datasheet on it.

It sounds like the motor is a standard induction motor with a 90 degree
phase controlled startup winding.

--
Daniel Rudy

Email address has been base64 encoded to reduce spam
Decode email address using b64decode or uudecode -m

Burning smell, sparks and noise from Miele vacuum cleaner motor

On Thu, 02 Oct 2008 03:59:45 -0700, Daniel Rudy
wrote:

At about the time of 10/2/2008 1:20 AM, Graz stated the following:
The only electronics (on a face plate) attached to the motor are a ST
electronics BTB16 600BW chip (used for phase control in motor speed
controllers) and an unidentified cylindrical component marked only as
"43-02 97C".

Just curious whether the failure of either of these could be causing
the motor failure symptoms in the subject line,

That 43-02 sounds like a motor running capacitor...43uf maybe? The 97C
means that it will function correctly up to 97 degrees Celsius. A
failure of the cap will cause problems.

OK, thanks. I will try to measure the ESR on it. What sort of
problems could failure cause?

The chip mentioned is not a IC
per say, but it's a triac.
http://www.datasheetcatalog.org/data...onics/7471.pdf is
the datasheet on it.

It sounds like the motor is a standard induction motor with a 90 degree
phase controlled startup winding.

Apparently it's also brushless. And not amenable to dissasembly.

Burning smell, sparks and noise from Miele vacuum cleaner motor

At about the time of 10/2/2008 4:11 AM, Graz stated the following:
On Thu, 02 Oct 2008 03:59:45 -0700, Daniel Rudy
wrote:

At about the time of 10/2/2008 1:20 AM, Graz stated the following:
The only electronics (on a face plate) attached to the motor are a ST
electronics BTB16 600BW chip (used for phase control in motor speed
controllers) and an unidentified cylindrical component marked only as
"43-02 97C".

Just curious whether the failure of either of these could be causing
the motor failure symptoms in the subject line,
That 43-02 sounds like a motor running capacitor...43uf maybe? The 97C
means that it will function correctly up to 97 degrees Celsius. A
failure of the cap will cause problems.

OK, thanks. I will try to measure the ESR on it. What sort of
problems could failure cause?

Failure to start or trouble starting. I'm willing to bet the triac is
out. Personally, I would replace both. With that being a motor cap,
you may want to get something in the 250-480v range.

The chip mentioned is not a IC
per say, but it's a triac.
http://www.datasheetcatalog.org/data...onics/7471.pdf is
the datasheet on it.

It sounds like the motor is a standard induction motor with a 90 degree
phase controlled startup winding.

Apparently it's also brushless. And not amenable to dissasembly.

Induction motors are brushless, and you can take them apart. I've done
it quite a few times. The stator is just the windings. The rotor is
quite simple, basically just a bunch of steel laminates inside an
aluminum cage. You have bearings on both ends. There isn't much to
them. The only ways that an induction motor can fail is either a
winding opens or shorts (which rarely happens), or the bearings go out
(more common), and that's it. It's kinda unusual to see a low
horsepower induction motor have a separate starting circuit, even if it
is single phase.

Here's some theory if you are interested.
http://www.reliance.com/mtr/mtrthrmn.htm

--
Daniel Rudy

Email address has been base64 encoded to reduce spam
Decode email address using b64decode or uudecode -m

Burning smell, sparks and noise from Miele vacuum cleaner motor

On Thu, 02 Oct 2008 05:34:47 -0700, Daniel Rudy
wrote:

At about the time of 10/2/2008 4:11 AM, Graz stated the following:
On Thu, 02 Oct 2008 03:59:45 -0700, Daniel Rudy
wrote:

At about the time of 10/2/2008 1:20 AM, Graz stated the following:
The only electronics (on a face plate) attached to the motor are a ST
electronics BTB16 600BW chip (used for phase control in motor speed
controllers) and an unidentified cylindrical component marked only as
"43-02 97C".

Just curious whether the failure of either of these could be causing
the motor failure symptoms in the subject line,
That 43-02 sounds like a motor running capacitor...43uf maybe? The 97C
means that it will function correctly up to 97 degrees Celsius. A
failure of the cap will cause problems.

OK, thanks. I will try to measure the ESR on it. What sort of
problems could failure cause?

Failure to start or trouble starting.

It starts fine, just sparks quite a bit, is noisy, and there's an
electrical burning smell (from the sparks, presumably)

I'm willing to bet the triac is
out. Personally, I would replace both. With that being a motor cap,
you may want to get something in the 250-480v range.

The cap checks out OK. It won't cost me much to replace the triac so
it's worth a shot. I can get hold of a BTA16-600BW (locally) easily
enough, but the BTB16-600BW will be more difficult. According to the
data sheet, the only difference between them is that the "A" is
insulated and the "B" is not, so I imagine I could use the "A"?

The chip mentioned is not a IC
per say, but it's a triac.
http://www.datasheetcatalog.org/data...onics/7471.pdf is
the datasheet on it.

It sounds like the motor is a standard induction motor with a 90 degree
phase controlled startup winding.

Apparently it's also brushless. And not amenable to dissasembly.

Induction motors are brushless, and you can take them apart. I've done
it quite a few times. The stator is just the windings. The rotor is
quite simple, basically just a bunch of steel laminates inside an
aluminum cage. You have bearings on both ends. There isn't much to
them. The only ways that an induction motor can fail is either a
winding opens or shorts (which rarely happens), or the bearings go out
(more common), and that's it. It's kinda unusual to see a low
horsepower induction motor have a separate starting circuit, even if it
is single phase.

It just seemed odd to me that the actual motor on a vacuum cleaner
less than 6 years old would pack up. Especially one made by Miele,
which prides itself on the quality of its products.

Here's some theory if you are interested.
http://www.reliance.com/mtr/mtrthrmn.htm

Thanks for that, bookmarked. All your help much appreciated.

Burning smell, sparks and noise from Miele vacuum cleaner motor