Electronics Repair (sci.electronics.repair) Discussion of repairing electronic equipment. Topics include requests for assistance, where to obtain servicing information and parts, techniques for diagnosis and repair, and annecdotes about success, failures and problems.

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Default Gotta do Best TV thing again

Somebody or some team designed one heck of a tv and I got lucky and
bought one...25 years ago.

Maybe one of you reading this was involved in this masterpiece.


I am a layman. Yes I experienced the awesome Zenith black and whites
from the 50's. But in 1983 I accidentally got the color set to die
for.

I have owned early RCA, Zenith, and later the best of Sony CRT and
rear projection, and Phillips CRT and Sanyo CRT and Panasonic CRT....
...to name a few.

I purchased from Sears "Outlet". ....1983.... a .Sears-LXI
(Sanyo?RCA?) 26" Model.. a true combo tv-channel 3 or 4 -monitor .
Model 564-42951650 / 564.42952650.

The picture quality and the built-in features are awesome and long
lived.

I post this because few if any of the new monitors and TV's have the
flexible features this one had ..in conjunction with quality
performance ...let alone anticipated longevity.

Since it came from the outlet store, that meant it failed shortly for
the first buyer. It failed shortly for me as well, but the one or two
tiny resistors-capacitors? put in by a tech 4 months after I owned
it, under warranty, has resulted in PERFECT performance ever
since......that is 25 years to date.

I do mean perfect. "...(That tube TV has an awesome picture. very
..bright and sharp and the color is balanced)..." is the comment of
many ...even today's LCD owners. And the set is LOADED with
features. The set was designed at 330 lines max resolution
....broadcast standard. The lumens are incredible..it displays in hot
white, and with the sharpness circuit turned to zero, tint-color-
brightness-contrast are dead on at default midpoint. Oh I will lower
the brightness one knotch and tint up one knotch, occasionally,
depending on the broadcast. The lumens are so great they hurt your
eyes in a dark room. Really. If you turned down the brightness, color
and tint could never be balanced. I had to move it from a dark family
room to a sunlit or lamp lit ..living room. The new 36" rear
projection unit (lousy Sony needed color guns often) was too faint
for the sunlit room anyway so it went to the family room and the LXI
was too bright for the dark room... so it went to the living room into
a custom built ..leaded glass door A/V oak entertainment center. A
gorgeous combo.

Beau-coup Features:
Unusually heavy beast...est 55 pounds

BACK PANEL:
3 - way switch : force tv tuner or channel 3 or channel 4 monitor
function
-time does not show on screen if 3 or 4 is forced

normal or catv switch

Here's what I love too: RCA input and outputs:
video-audio inputs..... one, and two and THREE
OUTPUT one) fixed audio stereo or mono and video
2nd OUTPUT ) audio only-VARIABLE

NO S-CONNECTOR

ONE 75 OHM ANTENNA PORT

External speaker terminals
Internal-external speaker switch

As you can see, with a relatively inexpensive switch box this unit can
be used as a central a/v preamp or and economy a/v receiver.

Performance features:
A fine tuning up down for exceptional CATV and antenna inputs ( I
never used it) V-Hold etc
Nice, top - narrow control hideaway door
Stereo-mono selector
Bilingual selector
Both of the above plus the time is displayed briefly when
changing channels.
Time- time on- sleep time -off programmer. Use it as an alarm clock.
125 channel tuner
Headphone jack up front with automatic speaker cut out if used.
Good control buttons up front if remote fails including OBC ( One
Button Color -centering reset.

I never measured the distortion on the speaker outs. The variable
audio out is pretty darn good. ..

This puppy performs. I ordered an HD converter from DishNetwork. I'll
get an LCD when this AWESOME crt tv fails me. Somebody or some team
designed one heck of a tv and I got lucky and bought one.
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Default Gotta do Best TV thing again

Hate to spoil things, but does it have full-bandwidht I/Q demodulation?

Not likely.


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Default Gotta do Best TV thing again

On Sep 17, 6:21 am, TonyQ wrote:
Somebody or some team designed one heck of a tv and I got lucky



No you didn't, all TVs (except the Korean models, which weren't
terrible) were reliable in the 80s. You can find these TVs along the
side of the road, and I'll bet at least half of them still work.
They're very simple circuit wise, and well built.



I purchased from Sears "Outlet". ....1983.... a .Sears-LXI
(Sanyo?RCA?) 26" Model.. a true combo tv-channel 3 or 4 -monitor .
Model 564-42951650 / 564.42952650.


564. model prefixes indicate Sanyo built. Most of these had RCA CRTs
in them.




This puppy performs. I ordered an HD converter from DishNetwork. I'll
get an LCD when this AWESOME crt tv fails me.


Performs? Most CRTs of this era have untinted glass which will render
horrible black levels in typical room lighting situations. Some high
end models used a somewhat dark tinted screen, others used an
exterior tinted glass cover.


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Default Gotta do Best TV thing again

John-Del wrote:
On Sep 17, 6:21 am, TonyQ wrote:
Somebody or some team designed one heck of a tv and I got lucky



No you didn't, all TVs (except the Korean models, which weren't
terrible) were reliable in the 80s. You can find these TVs along

the
side of the road, and I'll bet at least half of them still work.
They're very simple circuit wise, and well built.



I purchased from Sears "Outlet". ....1983.... a .Sears-LXI
(Sanyo?RCA?) 26" Model.. a true combo tv-channel 3 or 4 -

monitor .
Model 564-42951650 / 564.42952650.


564. model prefixes indicate Sanyo built. Most of these had RCA

CRTs
in them.




This puppy performs. I ordered an HD converter from DishNetwork.

I'll
get an LCD when this AWESOME crt tv fails me.


Performs? Most CRTs of this era have untinted glass which will

render
horrible black levels in typical room lighting situations. Some

high
end models used a somewhat dark tinted screen, others used an
exterior tinted glass cover.


Stop raining on his parade. He's HAPPY with something. So it's not for
you but it's good for him.

G
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Default Gotta do Best TV thing again

On Sep 18, 3:59 am, wrote:


Stop raining on his parade. He's HAPPY with something. So it's not for
you but it's good for him.

G



Actually, I was trying to **** on his parade, but your point is taken.


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Default Gotta do Best TV thing again

It is absolutely no wonder why nobody ever talks about what happens when
things go right.

So the person who bought this TV really likes it and thinks it's the best TV
ever made. Even if isn't, so what?

William (has this 1983 era Zenith 13" table TV that to this very day works
so unbelievably well...oh wait, never mind...)


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Default Gotta do Best TV thing again

TonyQ wrote:

Somebody or some team designed one heck of a tv and I got lucky and
bought one...25 years ago.

snip



I bought a television "monitor" from JC Penney back in 1977. The darn
thing is still plugging along today. Picture quality is still great
and so is the sound. It was one of the first stereo tv's on the
market, so the seperation is a bit lacking, but other wise it's still a
fantastic set. It's one of those that has more inputs and output jacks
on the back than I know what to do with.

I don't plan on upgrading to digital until this gem takes it's last
breath.
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Default Gotta do Best TV thing again

I know the best site about the best (high price) tv adjustment.
cuhulin



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Default Gotta do Best TV thing again

wrote:

I know the best site about the best (high price) tv adjustment.
cuhulin


Huh?
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Default Gotta do Best TV thing again

On Sep 19, 10:51*am, Elephant wrote:

I bought a television "monitor" from JC Penney back in 1977. *The darn
thing is still plugging along today. * *Picture quality is still great
and so is the sound. * It was one of the first stereo tv's on the
market, so the seperation is a bit lacking, but other wise it's still a
fantastic set. * It's one of those that has more inputs and output jacks
on the back than I know what to do with.

I don't plan on upgrading to digital until this gem takes it's last
breath.


Not to p*ss on anyone's parade or anything, but quite frankly, I can't
fathom how anyone can rave over analog CRT TVs anymore. Not when it's
so easy to go into stores and view either SDTV or HDTV over LCDs or
plasmas. It must take an enormous amount of mental rationalization to
rave over old sets, IMO.

After buying an LCD monitor and HDTV STB for our main setup, we bought
another STB for the upstairs setup. Used it with a very nice Sanyo CRT
we had owned for a number of years. But honestly, it was hard to enjoy
that anymore. Even fed from an HDTV STB, so the image was completely
free of any ghost, the image on the analog CRT was so "TV-like" as to
be uninvolving anymore. No definition, grainy, obvious shadow mask,
just unacceptable anymore.

So we moved the downstairs set upstairs, and bought a bigger one for
downstairs.

By the way, neither of the two LCDs we bought was adjusted even close
to correctly, straight out of the box. My recommendation is to start
by deactivating any of their auto picture adjustment gizmos, and go
from there. Ditto with the audio. Don't be discouraged when the
initial image looks totally underwhelming.

Bert
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Default Gotta do Best TV thing again

Hi!

Not to p*ss on anyone's parade or anything, but quite frankly, I
can't fathom how anyone can rave over analog CRT TVs anymore.


One thing is the longevity...I've seen my old CRT TVs go past their 10th,
20th, and even 25th birthdays, and they still work as well as they ever did.
Most have required nothing more than simple cleaning of the screen to keep
right on plugging along.

I *like* that kind of a lifetime out of a product, and I'm not sure we'll
ever see it with the more modern LCD and Plasma TV sets. (Or maybe even the
modern CRT sets for that matter.) I'm of the strong belief that most (if not
all) of them won't last nearly as long because they were not made as well.

I am not saying that I would never buy an LCD or plasma TV set, but right
now I see no reason to do so. I don't have any need for anything more than
what the sets I have can offer, and I'm not going to throw them out while
they still work fine and meet my needs.

William


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Default Gotta do Best TV thing again

William R. Walsh wrote:
Hi!

Not to p*ss on anyone's parade or anything, but quite frankly, I
can't fathom how anyone can rave over analog CRT TVs anymore.


One thing is the longevity...I've seen my old CRT TVs go past their 10th,
20th, and even 25th birthdays, and they still work as well as they ever did.
Most have required nothing more than simple cleaning of the screen to keep
right on plugging along.

I *like* that kind of a lifetime out of a product, and I'm not sure we'll
ever see it with the more modern LCD and Plasma TV sets. (Or maybe even the
modern CRT sets for that matter.) I'm of the strong belief that most (if not
all) of them won't last nearly as long because they were not made as well.

I'd like to have seen it in the late-century CRTs as well. Just because
they 'could' make them better--and in fact did at one time--doesn't
mean that just any CRT will last even five years. I've had dozens of
monitors and nearly as many TVs which I sh*tcanned because the CRT wore out.

They have a finite lifetime, after which the emissions inevitably
decline. That's if the shadow mask doesn't warp or get dislodged, or a
short doesn't develop.

That said, I like CRTs. I liked vinyl records as well. Make an LCD
with the same attention to workmanship as the older picture tubes, add
an easily-replaceable backlight (or an LED one which won't burn
out)...and you have a product which should last longer than the average CRT.

Whether you'll think it looks as good is another question altogether.

I am not saying that I would never buy an LCD or plasma TV set, but right
now I see no reason to do so. I don't have any need for anything more than
what the sets I have can offer, and I'm not going to throw them out while
they still work fine and meet my needs.

Nor would/will I. I have a 15 year old RP CRT machine that suits me
just fine. When it dies, though, I'll likely replace it with something
that doesn't take up so much room and use as much electricity.

jak
William


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"William R. Walsh" m
wrote in message news:bS%[email protected]_s21...
Hi!

Not to p*ss on anyone's parade or anything, but quite frankly, I
can't fathom how anyone can rave over analog CRT TVs anymore.


One thing is the longevity...I've seen my old CRT TVs go past their 10th,
20th, and even 25th birthdays, and they still work as well as they ever
did.
Most have required nothing more than simple cleaning of the screen to keep
right on plugging along.

I *like* that kind of a lifetime out of a product, and I'm not sure we'll
ever see it with the more modern LCD and Plasma TV sets. (Or maybe even
the
modern CRT sets for that matter.) I'm of the strong belief that most (if
not
all) of them won't last nearly as long because they were not made as well.

I am not saying that I would never buy an LCD or plasma TV set, but right
now I see no reason to do so. I don't have any need for anything more than
what the sets I have can offer, and I'm not going to throw them out while
they still work fine and meet my needs.

William

In my opinion..............I think, if you can afford it, go buy a HDTV
monitor, Reason? You only live once and it's well worth the cost,
Don't miss out.





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Default Gotta do Best TV thing again

On Sat, 20 Sep 2008 05:28:39 GMT, "William R. Walsh"
m wrote:

Hi!

Not to p*ss on anyone's parade or anything, but quite frankly, I
can't fathom how anyone can rave over analog CRT TVs anymore.


One thing is the longevity...I've seen my old CRT TVs go past their 10th,
20th, and even 25th birthdays, and they still work as well as they ever did.
Most have required nothing more than simple cleaning of the screen to keep
right on plugging along.

I *like* that kind of a lifetime out of a product, and I'm not sure we'll
ever see it with the more modern LCD and Plasma TV sets. (Or maybe even the
modern CRT sets for that matter.) I'm of the strong belief that most (if not
all) of them won't last nearly as long because they were not made as well.

I am not saying that I would never buy an LCD or plasma TV set, but right
now I see no reason to do so. I don't have any need for anything more than
what the sets I have can offer, and I'm not going to throw them out while
they still work fine and meet my needs.

William

indeed... that was my backhanded message. Does the TV industry today
think and function like Enron or MCI or Lehmann Bros management?

I never said my old CRT unit gave a BETTER picture than the good new
LCD units. It has ended up to be an incredible value. Will I be so
lucky when I buy an LCD model? It's up to you designers.... and
corporate management, boys and girls.


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On Sep 21, 11:30*am, TonyQ wrote:

indeed... that was my backhanded message. Does the TV industry today
think and function like Enron or MCI or Lehmann Bros management?

I never said my old CRT unit *gave a BETTER picture than the good new
LCD units. *It has ended up to be an incredible value. *Will I be so
lucky when I buy an LCD model? *It's up to you designers.... and
corporate management, boys and girls.


I guess I missed the social message embedded in this. Just sounded
really odd to see raves about the image of analog TV, that's all.

I was very, very glad to see LCD TVs of reasonably large size, and
digital TV, become available. Even at a very young age, i.e. grade
school age, I couldn't understand why TV images had to look so bad
compared with movies, or why TVs had to be so enormous for such a
small image area. TV always seemed to me to be a bad compromise,
required to get images over RF. So I've been following the evolution
of "advanced TV," then DTV, since way back in 1986, with great
anticipation.

My own luck with analog TVs was so so. And I never saw any evidence
whatever of them being built with any special care. Quite the
opposite, if anything. Analog CRT TVs, as far as I could tell, were
always far more cheaply built than any audio gear I've owned. Probably
had to be that way, to keep the price down.

Our oldest analog TV was more than 15 years old when the flyback
transformer fried in a dramatic display of sound and smoke. One quit
working early on, just a couple of years old. I got it fixed, but that
didn't last long. Newer ones quit typically after 7 or 8 years or so,
with the image suddenly becoming ghosty, then recovering, then back to
ghost, or with power supply problems. A couple of them shut off
suddenly, then back on again, then off, etc. The last two CRTs we
owned were still working when we gave them to charity. They were both
around 9 or 10 years old.

My expectation is that LCDs, which do not need high voltages, should
last fairly well. We'll see.

Bert
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Albert Manfredi writes:

My expectation is that LCDs, which do not need high voltages, should
last fairly well. We'll see.


But LCDs *do* need high voltages, to run the electroluminescent or
cold-cathode backlight that most large displays have -- and, indeed,
backlight PSU problems are an extremely common failure mode on LCD
monitors that are more than a couple of years old. I've seen quite a few
die that way already.

My Dell 2001FP 20" LCD failed twice in four years. The customer service
operative I spoke to said they're only engineered to last three years
now, and it was unreasonable of me to expect to get any more than that
out of a £600 monitor -- suffice it to say that I won't be buying from
them again.

--
Adam Sampson http://offog.org/
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Adam Sampson wrote:
Albert Manfredi writes:

My expectation is that LCDs, which do not need high voltages, should
last fairly well. We'll see.


But LCDs *do* need high voltages, to run the electroluminescent or
cold-cathode backlight that most large displays have -- and, indeed,
backlight PSU problems are an extremely common failure mode on LCD
monitors that are more than a couple of years old. I've seen quite a few
die that way already.

My Dell 2001FP 20" LCD failed twice in four years. The customer service
operative I spoke to said they're only engineered to last three years
now, and it was unreasonable of me to expect to get any more than that
out of a £600 monitor -- suffice it to say that I won't be buying from
them again.


Eventually, LEDs will take over the backlight duties. That will fix
'that' problem. Dell already offers them as an option for some of their
line of laptops.

That said, last week I saw my first OLED display. Major game change.
Sure, it was a tiny 11" Sony TV, selling for (get this!) $2300; but the
image was stunning. Simply amazing!

From no matter what angle, the image looked the same. If you could see
the image at all, it looked the same as head-on, unlike an LCD where you
have to be at the perfect spot for the image to look right.

I'm familiar with professional preview monitors (CRTs) which are not
inexpensive in their own rite. Still no comparison. I said many years
ago in this forum that LEDs would take over the flashlight industry.
That's happened to a great degree. I'll make a similar prediction
concerning these. They're just that good.

---Unless something else comes out that's better and cheaper; you'll
have an OLED TV some day---

jak
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I'm still using my Sony KV-35S45, it was one of the best CRT sets ever
made, and IMO it outperforms the vast majority of LCD and perhaps even
plasma sets on the market. It's size and weight, and the lack of HD, is a
downer for sure, but it's well worth it to have a TV that looks and performs
like a TV really should. Even if I could afford an HD set, the only one I'd
even consider would be a Pioneer Elite plasma.
LCD's may have the advantage when it comes to resolution, size, and
efficiency, but you just can't beat the rich, accurate color of a good CRT.
Everybody else might be racing to the nearest Wal-mart to pick up a cheap
LCD, but I'm sticking with the old, tried-and-true favorite.
"Albert Manfredi" wrote in message
...
On Sep 19, 10:51 am, Elephant wrote:

I bought a television "monitor" from JC Penney back in 1977. The darn
thing is still plugging along today. Picture quality is still great
and so is the sound. It was one of the first stereo tv's on the
market, so the seperation is a bit lacking, but other wise it's still a
fantastic set. It's one of those that has more inputs and output jacks
on the back than I know what to do with.

I don't plan on upgrading to digital until this gem takes it's last
breath.


Not to p*ss on anyone's parade or anything, but quite frankly, I can't
fathom how anyone can rave over analog CRT TVs anymore. Not when it's
so easy to go into stores and view either SDTV or HDTV over LCDs or
plasmas. It must take an enormous amount of mental rationalization to
rave over old sets, IMO.

After buying an LCD monitor and HDTV STB for our main setup, we bought
another STB for the upstairs setup. Used it with a very nice Sanyo CRT
we had owned for a number of years. But honestly, it was hard to enjoy
that anymore. Even fed from an HDTV STB, so the image was completely
free of any ghost, the image on the analog CRT was so "TV-like" as to
be uninvolving anymore. No definition, grainy, obvious shadow mask,
just unacceptable anymore.

So we moved the downstairs set upstairs, and bought a bigger one for
downstairs.

By the way, neither of the two LCDs we bought was adjusted even close
to correctly, straight out of the box. My recommendation is to start
by deactivating any of their auto picture adjustment gizmos, and go
from there. Ditto with the audio. Don't be discouraged when the
initial image looks totally underwhelming.

Bert


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