Intermittant / vibration problems
Models that use 0.15 inch power connector interboard connections
, loads of them for signals, control and power between 2the 2 main boards.
Otherwise neat idea, line of sockets on each board and then the line of pins
that would normally by soldered to a board used to bridge the 2 sets of
sockets.

The old problem of the pcb holes too large for the solder part of each
connection plus not enough solder.
End result , eventually microscopic rings can form around the periphery of
the holes.


--
Diverse Devices, Southampton, England
electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list on
http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/

N Cook wrote:

Intermittant / vibration problems
Models that use 0.15 inch power connector interboard connections
, loads of them for signals, control and power between 2the 2 main boards.
Otherwise neat idea, line of sockets on each board and then the line of pins
that would normally by soldered to a board used to bridge the 2 sets of
sockets.

The old problem of the pcb holes too large for the solder part of each
connection plus not enough solder.
End result , eventually microscopic rings can form around the periphery of
the holes.

Yes, bad design by default. The manufacturer's recommended hole sizes are often
insanely oversize. This is an area my colleagues and I regularly reviewed for
reliability. Connectors should not sit sloppily prior to solder and especially
not so in single sided boards.

Graham

Meat Plow wrote in message
...
On Sat, 02 Aug 2008 11:01:41 +0100, N Cook wrote:

Intermittant / vibration problems
Models that use 0.15 inch power connector interboard connections , loads
of them for signals, control and power between 2the 2 main boards.
Otherwise neat idea, line of sockets on each board and then the line of
pins that would normally by soldered to a board used to bridge the 2
sets
of sockets.

The old problem of the pcb holes too large for the solder part of each
connection plus not enough solder.
End result , eventually microscopic rings can form around the periphery
of
the holes.

Peavey has been using these for years in most everything they make if I
understand your description. I've not notice a common problem and I
own/owned a lot of Peavey gear.



The one in front of me has not been obviously abused. There is a bit more
rust corrosion on the rear panel connectors than I would like to see,
perhaps stored in a shed or garage over a winter - but that should not
produce these ring failures. Because there is no conventional rigidity
locking the boards together , ie the pin arrays can move at both ends then
that should be fairly immune to being heavily leant on or similar.
No its oversize holes that are the problem here. The tails from each socket
pin are thin strips and should have small slots , not holes the diameter of
the strip and a bit, in the pcb, so no unreasonable unsupported solder. Just
normal thermal movement presumably causes those to fail.

--
Diverse Devices, Southampton, England
electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list on
http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/

N Cook wrote:

The one in front of me has not been obviously abused. There is a bit more
rust corrosion on the rear panel connectors than I would like to see,
perhaps stored in a shed or garage over a winter - but that should not
produce these ring failures. Because there is no conventional rigidity
locking the boards together , ie the pin arrays can move at both ends then
that should be fairly immune to being heavily leant on or similar.
No its oversize holes that are the problem here. The tails from each socket
pin are thin strips and should have small slots , not holes the diameter of
the strip and a bit, in the pcb, so no unreasonable unsupported solder. Just
normal thermal movement presumably causes those to fail.

Remove one of those pin strips, remove excess solder and report back on the hole
dia and the pin dia. I assume you have at least a micrometer/vernier or set of
drills to gauge the hole etc.

Report back. If you can, try and identify the make of strip. Most likely Molex,
AMP or Panduit.

Graham

Eeyore wrote in message
...


N Cook wrote:

The one in front of me has not been obviously abused. There is a bit
more
rust corrosion on the rear panel connectors than I would like to see,
perhaps stored in a shed or garage over a winter - but that should not
produce these ring failures. Because there is no conventional rigidity
locking the boards together , ie the pin arrays can move at both ends
then
that should be fairly immune to being heavily leant on or similar.
No its oversize holes that are the problem here. The tails from each
socket
pin are thin strips and should have small slots , not holes the diameter
of
the strip and a bit, in the pcb, so no unreasonable unsupported solder.
Just
normal thermal movement presumably causes those to fail.

Remove one of those pin strips, remove excess solder and report back on
the hole
dia and the pin dia. I assume you have at least a micrometer/vernier or
set of
drills to gauge the hole etc.

Report back. If you can, try and identify the make of strip. Most likely
Molex,
AMP or Panduit.

Graham


Its back in its casing and checked out and I'm not undoing and redoing all
those 150 or so bushnuts and knobs etc


--
Diverse Devices, Southampton, England
electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list on
http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/

"Meat Plow" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 02 Aug 2008 17:24:58 +0100, N Cook wrote:

Meat Plow wrote in message
...
On Sat, 02 Aug 2008 11:01:41 +0100, N Cook wrote:

Intermittant / vibration problems
Models that use 0.15 inch power connector interboard connections ,
loads of them for signals, control and power between 2the 2 main
boards. Otherwise neat idea, line of sockets on each board and then
the line of pins that would normally by soldered to a board used to
bridge the 2
sets
of sockets.

The old problem of the pcb holes too large for the solder part of each
connection plus not enough solder.
End result , eventually microscopic rings can form around the
periphery
of
the holes.

Peavey has been using these for years in most everything they make if I
understand your description. I've not notice a common problem and I
own/owned a lot of Peavey gear.



The one in front of me has not been obviously abused. There is a bit more
rust corrosion on the rear panel connectors than I would like to see,
perhaps stored in a shed or garage over a winter - but that should not
produce these ring failures. Because there is no conventional rigidity
locking the boards together , ie the pin arrays can move at both ends
then
that should be fairly immune to being heavily leant on or similar. No its
oversize holes that are the problem here. The tails from each socket pin
are thin strips and should have small slots , not holes the diameter of
the strip and a bit, in the pcb, so no unreasonable unsupported solder.
Just normal thermal movement presumably causes those to fail.

I don't doubt your diagnosis and I have seen similar situations but I've
seen a ton of those connections and very few have been problematic. I've
worked on dozens of the CS- series power amps and they relied on those
connections but I can't recall seeing them fail although there may have
been an isolated case or two that I don't remember.




I too have repaired a lot of Peavey gear and have never come across any
connector problem that might be called Generic. Peavey equipment just
doesn't suffer from connector problems, unlike a lot of other manufacturers.

I suspect you just have a rogue unit.



Gareth.

Gareth Magennis wrote in message
. ..

"Meat Plow" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 02 Aug 2008 17:24:58 +0100, N Cook wrote:

Meat Plow wrote in message
...
On Sat, 02 Aug 2008 11:01:41 +0100, N Cook wrote:

Intermittant / vibration problems
Models that use 0.15 inch power connector interboard connections ,
loads of them for signals, control and power between 2the 2 main
boards. Otherwise neat idea, line of sockets on each board and then
the line of pins that would normally by soldered to a board used to
bridge the 2
sets
of sockets.

The old problem of the pcb holes too large for the solder part of
each
connection plus not enough solder.
End result , eventually microscopic rings can form around the
periphery
of
the holes.

Peavey has been using these for years in most everything they make if
I
understand your description. I've not notice a common problem and I
own/owned a lot of Peavey gear.



The one in front of me has not been obviously abused. There is a bit
more
rust corrosion on the rear panel connectors than I would like to see,
perhaps stored in a shed or garage over a winter - but that should not
produce these ring failures. Because there is no conventional rigidity
locking the boards together , ie the pin arrays can move at both ends
then
that should be fairly immune to being heavily leant on or similar. No
its
oversize holes that are the problem here. The tails from each socket
pin
are thin strips and should have small slots , not holes the diameter of
the strip and a bit, in the pcb, so no unreasonable unsupported solder.
Just normal thermal movement presumably causes those to fail.

I don't doubt your diagnosis and I have seen similar situations but I've
seen a ton of those connections and very few have been problematic. I've
worked on dozens of the CS- series power amps and they relied on those
connections but I can't recall seeing them fail although there may have
been an isolated case or two that I don't remember.




I too have repaired a lot of Peavey gear and have never come across any
connector problem that might be called Generic. Peavey equipment just
doesn't suffer from connector problems, unlike a lot of other
manufacturers.

I suspect you just have a rogue unit.



Gareth.




1990 manufacture date so plenty of time to degrade, maybe being in the UK is
critical.
Whether inches equivalent of 1.4 x0 .3mm tails in 1.5mm holes or 1.8x 0.3mm
in 2mm holes or even 1.5x0.3mm in 2mm holes , I don't know, but its not good
practise.
There was one obviously bad ring as a "caldera" plus two other bad on
viewing under a magnifying inspection lamp.


--
Diverse Devices, Southampton, England
electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list on
http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/

"N Cook" wrote in message
...
Gareth Magennis wrote in message
. ..

"Meat Plow" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 02 Aug 2008 17:24:58 +0100, N Cook wrote:

Meat Plow wrote in message
...
On Sat, 02 Aug 2008 11:01:41 +0100, N Cook wrote:

Intermittant / vibration problems
Models that use 0.15 inch power connector interboard connections ,
loads of them for signals, control and power between 2the 2 main
boards. Otherwise neat idea, line of sockets on each board and then
the line of pins that would normally by soldered to a board used to
bridge the 2
sets
of sockets.

The old problem of the pcb holes too large for the solder part of
each
connection plus not enough solder.
End result , eventually microscopic rings can form around the
periphery
of
the holes.

Peavey has been using these for years in most everything they make if
I
understand your description. I've not notice a common problem and I
own/owned a lot of Peavey gear.



The one in front of me has not been obviously abused. There is a bit
more
rust corrosion on the rear panel connectors than I would like to see,
perhaps stored in a shed or garage over a winter - but that should not
produce these ring failures. Because there is no conventional rigidity
locking the boards together , ie the pin arrays can move at both ends
then
that should be fairly immune to being heavily leant on or similar. No
its
oversize holes that are the problem here. The tails from each socket
pin
are thin strips and should have small slots , not holes the diameter
of
the strip and a bit, in the pcb, so no unreasonable unsupported
solder.
Just normal thermal movement presumably causes those to fail.

I don't doubt your diagnosis and I have seen similar situations but
I've
seen a ton of those connections and very few have been problematic.
I've
worked on dozens of the CS- series power amps and they relied on those
connections but I can't recall seeing them fail although there may have
been an isolated case or two that I don't remember.




I too have repaired a lot of Peavey gear and have never come across any
connector problem that might be called Generic. Peavey equipment just
doesn't suffer from connector problems, unlike a lot of other
manufacturers.

I suspect you just have a rogue unit.



Gareth.




1990 manufacture date so plenty of time to degrade, maybe being in the UK
is
critical.
Whether inches equivalent of 1.4 x0 .3mm tails in 1.5mm holes or 1.8x
0.3mm
in 2mm holes or even 1.5x0.3mm in 2mm holes , I don't know, but its not
good
practise.
There was one obviously bad ring as a "caldera" plus two other bad on
viewing under a magnifying inspection lamp.




I don't doubt that. I am saying that this is not typical of Peavey gear in
general.

Peavey is what it is, but whatever it is, it does it quite well for the
price. It has used the same connectors for decades and does not generally
have problems with them. They are actually pretty robust. IMHO. Possibly
even overengineered at that price range.

It could be, of course, that this is one design that has fallen beneath
expectations. I have not seen a lot of Peavey mixers as they have never
been that popular in the UK.

But, in this case we are talking about a desk manufactured 18 years ago.
I'd be pretty happy with a cheap desk that lasted this long.


Gareth.

N Cook wrote:

Gareth Magennis wrote in message
"Meat Plow" wrote in message
On Sat, 02 Aug 2008 17:24:58 +0100, N Cook wrote:
Meat Plow wrote in message
On Sat, 02 Aug 2008 11:01:41 +0100, N Cook wrote:

Intermittant / vibration problems
Models that use 0.15 inch power connector interboard connections ,
loads of them for signals, control and power between 2the 2 main
boards. Otherwise neat idea, line of sockets on each board and then
the line of pins that would normally by soldered to a board used to
bridge the 2
sets
of sockets.

The old problem of the pcb holes too large for the solder part of
each
connection plus not enough solder.
End result , eventually microscopic rings can form around the
periphery
of
the holes.

Peavey has been using these for years in most everything they make if
I
understand your description. I've not notice a common problem and I
own/owned a lot of Peavey gear.



The one in front of me has not been obviously abused. There is a bit
more
rust corrosion on the rear panel connectors than I would like to see,
perhaps stored in a shed or garage over a winter - but that should not
produce these ring failures. Because there is no conventional rigidity
locking the boards together , ie the pin arrays can move at both ends
then
that should be fairly immune to being heavily leant on or similar. No
its
oversize holes that are the problem here. The tails from each socket
pin
are thin strips and should have small slots , not holes the diameter of
the strip and a bit, in the pcb, so no unreasonable unsupported solder.
Just normal thermal movement presumably causes those to fail.

I don't doubt your diagnosis and I have seen similar situations but I've
seen a ton of those connections and very few have been problematic. I've
worked on dozens of the CS- series power amps and they relied on those
connections but I can't recall seeing them fail although there may have
been an isolated case or two that I don't remember.


I too have repaired a lot of Peavey gear and have never come across any
connector problem that might be called Generic. Peavey equipment just
doesn't suffer from connector problems, unlike a lot of other
manufacturers.

I suspect you just have a rogue unit.


1990 manufacture date so plenty of time to degrade, maybe being in the UK is
critical.
Whether inches equivalent of 1.4 x0 .3mm tails in 1.5mm holes or 1.8x 0.3mm
in 2mm holes or even 1.5x0.3mm in 2mm holes , I don't know, but its not good
practise.
There was one obviously bad ring as a "caldera" plus two other bad on
viewing under a magnifying inspection lamp.

It's far from unknown for connector manufacturers to overspecify the drill size
( esp for s/s boards ).

Graham

Gareth Magennis wrote:

"N Cook" wrote in message
...
Gareth Magennis wrote in message
. ..

"Meat Plow" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 02 Aug 2008 17:24:58 +0100, N Cook wrote:

Meat Plow wrote in message
...
On Sat, 02 Aug 2008 11:01:41 +0100, N Cook wrote:

Intermittant / vibration problems
Models that use 0.15 inch power connector interboard connections ,
loads of them for signals, control and power between 2the 2 main
boards. Otherwise neat idea, line of sockets on each board and then
the line of pins that would normally by soldered to a board used to
bridge the 2
sets
of sockets.

The old problem of the pcb holes too large for the solder part of
each
connection plus not enough solder.
End result , eventually microscopic rings can form around the
periphery
of
the holes.

Peavey has been using these for years in most everything they make if
I
understand your description. I've not notice a common problem and I
own/owned a lot of Peavey gear.



The one in front of me has not been obviously abused. There is a bit
more
rust corrosion on the rear panel connectors than I would like to see,
perhaps stored in a shed or garage over a winter - but that should not
produce these ring failures. Because there is no conventional rigidity
locking the boards together , ie the pin arrays can move at both ends
then
that should be fairly immune to being heavily leant on or similar. No
its
oversize holes that are the problem here. The tails from each socket
pin
are thin strips and should have small slots , not holes the diameter
of
the strip and a bit, in the pcb, so no unreasonable unsupported
solder.
Just normal thermal movement presumably causes those to fail.

I don't doubt your diagnosis and I have seen similar situations but
I've
seen a ton of those connections and very few have been problematic.
I've
worked on dozens of the CS- series power amps and they relied on those
connections but I can't recall seeing them fail although there may have
been an isolated case or two that I don't remember.


I too have repaired a lot of Peavey gear and have never come across any
connector problem that might be called Generic. Peavey equipment just
doesn't suffer from connector problems, unlike a lot of other
manufacturers.

I suspect you just have a rogue unit.


1990 manufacture date so plenty of time to degrade, maybe being in the UK
is critical.
Whether inches equivalent of 1.4 x0 .3mm tails in 1.5mm holes or 1.8x
0.3mm in 2mm holes or even 1.5x0.3mm in 2mm holes , I don't know, but its
not
good practise.
There was one obviously bad ring as a "caldera" plus two other bad on
viewing under a magnifying inspection lamp.

I don't doubt that. I am saying that this is not typical of Peavey gear in
general.

Peavey is what it is, but whatever it is, it does it quite well for the
price. It has used the same connectors for decades and does not generally
have problems with them. They are actually pretty robust. IMHO. Possibly
even overengineered at that price range.

It could be, of course, that this is one design that has fallen beneath
expectations. I have not seen a lot of Peavey mixers as they have never
been that popular in the UK.

But, in this case we are talking about a desk manufactured 18 years ago.
I'd be pretty happy with a cheap desk that lasted this long.

Amen to that ! See how long a Behringer lasts.

Graham

Gareth Magennis wrote in message
om...

"N Cook" wrote in message
...
Gareth Magennis wrote in message
. ..

"Meat Plow" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 02 Aug 2008 17:24:58 +0100, N Cook wrote:

Meat Plow wrote in message
...
On Sat, 02 Aug 2008 11:01:41 +0100, N Cook wrote:





I don't doubt that. I am saying that this is not typical of Peavey gear
in
general.

Peavey is what it is, but whatever it is, it does it quite well for the
price. It has used the same connectors for decades and does not generally
have problems with them. They are actually pretty robust. IMHO. Possibly
even overengineered at that price range.

It could be, of course, that this is one design that has fallen beneath
expectations. I have not seen a lot of Peavey mixers as they have never
been that popular in the UK.

But, in this case we are talking about a desk manufactured 18 years ago.
I'd be pretty happy with a cheap desk that lasted this long.


Gareth.





With hindsight, all that was necessary was to press-form the tails into a
near circle and use smaller holes.

--
Diverse Devices, Southampton, England
electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list on
http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/

N Cook wrote:

Gareth Magennis wrote in message

Peavey is what it is, but whatever it is, it does it quite well for the
price. It has used the same connectors for decades and does not generally
have problems with them. They are actually pretty robust. IMHO. Possibly
even overengineered at that price range.

It could be, of course, that this is one design that has fallen beneath
expectations. I have not seen a lot of Peavey mixers as they have never
been that popular in the UK.

But, in this case we are talking about a desk manufactured 18 years ago.
I'd be pretty happy with a cheap desk that lasted this long.


With hindsight, all that was necessary was to press-form the tails into a
near circle

Added cost.


and use smaller holes.

Yes. NEVER rely on data sheet values. Seen this kind of thing all too often.

Graham

"Eeyore" wrote in message
...


Gareth Magennis wrote:

"N Cook" wrote in message
...
Gareth Magennis wrote in message
. ..

"Meat Plow" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 02 Aug 2008 17:24:58 +0100, N Cook wrote:

Meat Plow wrote in message
...
On Sat, 02 Aug 2008 11:01:41 +0100, N Cook wrote:

Intermittant / vibration problems
Models that use 0.15 inch power connector interboard connections
,
loads of them for signals, control and power between 2the 2 main
boards. Otherwise neat idea, line of sockets on each board and
then
the line of pins that would normally by soldered to a board used
to
bridge the 2
sets
of sockets.

The old problem of the pcb holes too large for the solder part
of
each
connection plus not enough solder.
End result , eventually microscopic rings can form around the
periphery
of
the holes.

Peavey has been using these for years in most everything they make
if
I
understand your description. I've not notice a common problem and
I
own/owned a lot of Peavey gear.



The one in front of me has not been obviously abused. There is a
bit
more
rust corrosion on the rear panel connectors than I would like to
see,
perhaps stored in a shed or garage over a winter - but that should
not
produce these ring failures. Because there is no conventional
rigidity
locking the boards together , ie the pin arrays can move at both
ends
then
that should be fairly immune to being heavily leant on or similar.
No
its
oversize holes that are the problem here. The tails from each
socket
pin
are thin strips and should have small slots , not holes the
diameter
of
the strip and a bit, in the pcb, so no unreasonable unsupported
solder.
Just normal thermal movement presumably causes those to fail.

I don't doubt your diagnosis and I have seen similar situations but
I've
seen a ton of those connections and very few have been problematic.
I've
worked on dozens of the CS- series power amps and they relied on
those
connections but I can't recall seeing them fail although there may
have
been an isolated case or two that I don't remember.


I too have repaired a lot of Peavey gear and have never come across
any
connector problem that might be called Generic. Peavey equipment just
doesn't suffer from connector problems, unlike a lot of other
manufacturers.

I suspect you just have a rogue unit.


1990 manufacture date so plenty of time to degrade, maybe being in the
UK
is critical.
Whether inches equivalent of 1.4 x0 .3mm tails in 1.5mm holes or 1.8x
0.3mm in 2mm holes or even 1.5x0.3mm in 2mm holes , I don't know, but
its
not
good practise.
There was one obviously bad ring as a "caldera" plus two other bad on
viewing under a magnifying inspection lamp.

I don't doubt that. I am saying that this is not typical of Peavey gear
in
general.

Peavey is what it is, but whatever it is, it does it quite well for the
price. It has used the same connectors for decades and does not
generally
have problems with them. They are actually pretty robust. IMHO.
Possibly
even overengineered at that price range.

It could be, of course, that this is one design that has fallen beneath
expectations. I have not seen a lot of Peavey mixers as they have never
been that popular in the UK.

But, in this case we are talking about a desk manufactured 18 years ago.
I'd be pretty happy with a cheap desk that lasted this long.

Amen to that ! See how long a Behringer lasts.

Graham


Or if you can persuade the company in the UK which look after them on
Behringer's behalf, to even talk to you, let alone supply parts or service
info ...

Arfa

Arfa Daily wrote:

"Eeyore" wrote in message
Gareth Magennis wrote:

But, in this case we are talking about a desk manufactured 18 years ago.
I'd be pretty happy with a cheap desk that lasted this long.

Amen to that ! See how long a Behringer lasts.

Or if you can persuade the company in the UK which look after them on
Behringer's behalf, to even talk to you, let alone supply parts or service
info ...

You got EITHER of those out of them ? Shock horror !

Graham