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Electronics Repair (sci.electronics.repair) Discussion of repairing electronic equipment. Topics include requests for assistance, where to obtain servicing information and parts, techniques for diagnosis and repair, and annecdotes about success, failures and problems. |
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#1
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Light bulb power saver
Does anyone recall those power saving "discs" for light bulbs they were
selling back during the oil embargo days of the 70's. The disc was placed in a standard light bulb fixture and the light bulb was screwed in next. The disc was nothing more than a diode that "saved energy" by blocking power to the bulb for half of each cycle. Is anyone still making these things? If so, where can I buy them? |
#2
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Light bulb power saver
"Silver Surfer" wrote in message . .. Does anyone recall those power saving "discs" for light bulbs they were selling back during the oil embargo days of the 70's. The disc was placed in a standard light bulb fixture and the light bulb was screwed in next. The disc was nothing more than a diode that "saved energy" by blocking power to the bulb for half of each cycle. Is anyone still making these things? If so, where can I buy them? Why would you want one? They save very little energy and greatly reduce the efficiency of the bulb. If you want to save power, get a compact fluorescent or use a lower wattage bulb. You'll obtain superior results with either. |
#3
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Light bulb power saver
In article ,
Silver Surfer wrote: Does anyone recall those power saving "discs" for light bulbs they were selling back during the oil embargo days of the 70's. Oh, yeah, those things! The disc was placed in a standard light bulb fixture and the light bulb was screwed in next. The disc was nothing more than a diode that "saved energy" by blocking power to the bulb for half of each cycle. Is anyone still making these things? If so, where can I buy them? I think they've gone seriously out of favor for several reasons. Somebody probably makes them but I don't think I've seen one in a store in over a decade. Disadvantages; - They make the filament run significantly cooler, which both reduces the absolute light output and shifts the peak of the bulb's spectrum further towards the infra-red. I suspect that they actually *decrease* energy efficiency, in that you get less useful lumens-per-watt, because less of the filament's output is in the portions of the spectrum to which the human eye is sensitive. You're better off just buying a lower-wattage light bulb, or (better yet) a compact fluorescent. - They'll probably kill off halogen bulbs fairly quickly - dimming halogen bulbs and reducing the filament temperature interferes with the tungsten/halogen sequestration/redeposition cycle, and the filaments burn out more quickly than they need to. - By half-wave-rectifying the current on the line, they'll be creating some fairly severe harmonic currents on the mains. This results in additional losses in the power distribution system. The utility providers *hate* harmonic currents. - Similarly, by placing a half-wave-rectifying load on the circuit, they'll have the effect of creating some amount of DC offset of the voltage on the circuit. This is likely to cause buzzing of any consumer-electronics device containing a toroidal power transformer (e.g. some audio amps). - I have a vague recollection that these discs were reported to have caused overheating or fires... I'm not sure under what conditions. -- Dave Platt AE6EO Friends of Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads! |
#4
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Light bulb power saver
I think I once read somewhere many years ago some of those gadgets
shorted out and caused some fires.I use G.E.Reveal incandescent light bulbs, except in my kitchen and my bathroom where I use one flourescent light in each of those two rooms.I never turn those two lights off. cuhulin |
#5
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Light bulb power saver
Silver Surfer wrote: Does anyone recall those power saving "discs" for light bulbs they were selling back during the oil embargo days of the 70's. The disc was placed in a standard light bulb fixture and the light bulb was screwed in next. The disc was nothing more than a diode that "saved energy" by blocking power to the bulb for half of each cycle. A complete waste of time for all the reasons given by other posters. Use CFLs or a lower wattage incandescent bulb. Graham |
#7
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Light bulb power saver
writes:
I think I once read somewhere many years ago some of those gadgets shorted out and caused some fires.I use G.E.Reveal incandescent light bulbs, except in my kitchen and my bathroom where I use one flourescent light in each of those two rooms.I never turn those two lights off. cuhulin Aren't Reveal just hugely overpriced incandescnets??? Maybe they last a bit longer but so what? --- sam | Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/ Repair | Main Table of Contents: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/ +Lasers | Sam's Laser FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/lasersam.htm | Mirror Sites: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/F_mirror.html Important: Anything sent to the email address in the message header above is ignored unless my full name AND either lasers or electronics is included in the subject line. Or, you can contact me via the Feedback Form in the FAQs. |
#8
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Light bulb power saver
In article ,
Sam Goldwasser wrote: Aren't Reveal just hugely overpriced incandescnets??? Maybe they last a bit longer but so what? Some people like the light they put out. Here's GE's own claim: "What Makes GE Reveal Bulbs Different GE Reveal bulbs make colors "pop" in a way they don't with standard incandescent bulbs. Why? The rare earth element neodymium that's in the glass. (It's what gives these bulbs their distinctive blue color when unlit.) When these bulbs are lit, the neodymium provides a pure, clean light by filtering out much of the dulling yellow cast common from ordinary light bulbs." |
#9
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Light bulb power saver
Oops. I should have revealed my ulterior motive. My daughter's
mother-in-law has an outside light fixture that eats incandescent bulbs for some reason. I measured the voltage and found that it was 123 volts. No other fixtures in the house eat bulbs like this one does. My wild guess is that the house wiring (relatively new abode) may be miswired or defective in some strange way. Would rather not spend a lot of time tracing it out while possibly damaging the wallboard and such. She uses a low wattage bulb in the fixture. My thinking was to use one of the disc thingies in the fixture with a higher wattage bulb. Perhaps the diode would save the bulb from a peculiar voltage surge if that indeed is what is happening. Just trying to find an quick, easy, and lazy way out. Thanks for your valuable comments. "Eeyore" wrote in message ... Silver Surfer wrote: Does anyone recall those power saving "discs" for light bulbs they were selling back during the oil embargo days of the 70's. The disc was placed in a standard light bulb fixture and the light bulb was screwed in next. The disc was nothing more than a diode that "saved energy" by blocking power to the bulb for half of each cycle. A complete waste of time for all the reasons given by other posters. Use CFLs or a lower wattage incandescent bulb. Graham |
#10
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Light bulb power saver
In article , "Silver Surfer" wrote:
Oops. I should have revealed my ulterior motive. My daughter's mother-in-law has an outside light fixture that eats incandescent bulbs for some reason. I measured the voltage and found that it was 123 volts. No other fixtures in the house eat bulbs like this one does. My wild guess is that the house wiring (relatively new abode) may be miswired or defective in some strange way. Would rather not spend a lot of time tracing it out while possibly damaging the wallboard and such. She uses a low wattage bulb in the fixture. My thinking was to use one of the disc thingies in the fixture with a higher wattage bulb. Perhaps the diode would save the bulb from a peculiar voltage surge if that indeed is what is happening. Just trying to find an quick, easy, and lazy way out. I use CFL's. My outside lamp is on continious for at least 1.5 years. I don't turn it off. I have 4 inside I never turn off. I just bought a 75 ot 100 watt CFL equiv. at The Home Depot and its burned out allready in less than 1 week, but thats not normal for me. These high color temp bulbs are amazing but may run hotter. I think lamp dimmers help extend incandescents life. The blued incadescents lamps have less Lumens output. greg Thanks for your valuable comments. "Eeyore" wrote in message ... Silver Surfer wrote: Does anyone recall those power saving "discs" for light bulbs they were selling back during the oil embargo days of the 70's. The disc was placed in a standard light bulb fixture and the light bulb was screwed in next. The disc was nothing more than a diode that "saved energy" by blocking power to the bulb for half of each cycle. A complete waste of time for all the reasons given by other posters. Use CFLs or a lower wattage incandescent bulb. Graham |
#11
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Light bulb power saver
On Tue, 1 Apr 2008 17:35:18 -0700, (Dave Platt) wrote: - They'll probably kill off halogen bulbs fairly quickly - dimming halogen bulbs and reducing the filament temperature interferes with the tungsten/halogen sequestration/redeposition cycle, and the filaments burn out more quickly than they need to. I have/had some halogen 120 VAC bulbs that had a built in diode - in the base of the lamp. -- ----== Posted via Pronews.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.pronews.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups ---= - Total Privacy via Encryption =--- |
#12
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Light bulb power saver
"Silver Surfer" wrote in message ... Oops. I should have revealed my ulterior motive. My daughter's mother-in-law has an outside light fixture that eats incandescent bulbs for some reason. I measured the voltage and found that it was 123 volts. No other fixtures in the house eat bulbs like this one does. My wild guess is that the house wiring (relatively new abode) may be miswired or defective in some strange way. Would rather not spend a lot of time tracing it out while possibly damaging the wallboard and such. She uses a low wattage bulb in the fixture. My thinking was to use one of the disc thingies in the fixture with a higher wattage bulb. Perhaps the diode would save the bulb from a peculiar voltage surge if that indeed is what is happening. Just trying to find an quick, easy, and lazy way out. Thanks for your valuable comments. Nothing in the house wiring could cause that issue, though 123V is a tad on the high side. Thermal issues in the fixture, vibration, or usage patterns affect lamp life. You can also get long life bulbs rated 130V which will probably solve your problem. Why not use a compact fluorescent though? I use them in all my exterior lights, most are on dusk till dawn and I get about 2 years out of the bulbs. |
#13
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Light bulb power saver
On Tue, 1 Apr 2008 19:30:13 -0400, "Silver Surfer" wrote: Does anyone recall those power saving "discs" for light bulbs they were selling back during the oil embargo days of the 70's. The disc was placed in a standard light bulb fixture and the light bulb was screwed in next. The disc was nothing more than a diode that "saved energy" by blocking power to the bulb for half of each cycle. Is anyone still making these things? If so, where can I buy them? You could always wire a diode into the switch and make it a three position - did that for the reading light over my bed. -- ----== Posted via Pronews.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.pronews.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups ---= - Total Privacy via Encryption =--- |
#14
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Light bulb power saver
In article ,
Silver Surfer wrote: Oops. I should have revealed my ulterior motive. My daughter's mother-in-law has an outside light fixture that eats incandescent bulbs for some reason. I measured the voltage and found that it was 123 volts. No other fixtures in the house eat bulbs like this one does. My wild guess is that the house wiring (relatively new abode) may be miswired or defective in some strange way. Would rather not spend a lot of time tracing it out while possibly damaging the wallboard and such. You may have a significant-to-serious safety issue there... either a misconfigured transformer at the street (sending too high a voltage to the house) or an "open neutral" somewhere. I'd recommend checking other outlets for voltage... if the voltages are high, or (especially) if they go *up* if you turn on heavy loads elsewhere in the hours, get a competent electrician and/or the power company on the issue, stat. An open/loose neutral can lead to serious voltage fluctuations which can burn out or damage appliance motors, or even raise the risk of an electrical fire. My utility (PG&E) apparently considers any report of high/low voltage in the house to be a situation requiring an urgent response. If you really do want to just deal with the light-bulb-burnout issue, go to a well-stocked bulb supplier (rather than a local hardware store) and ask for a "130-volt bulb". These are specifically designed to run on a slightly-higher-than-usual voltage, and on normal line voltage they run a bit dim and cool and with a greatly extended lifetime. They're often used in outdoor and remotely-located fixtures, where bulb replacement is difficult or expensive to perform. -- Dave Platt AE6EO Friends of Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads! |
#15
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Light bulb power saver
You may have a significant-to-serious safety issue there... either a misconfigured transformer at the street (sending too high a voltage to the house) or an "open neutral" somewhere. I'd recommend checking other outlets for voltage... if the voltages are high, or (especially) if they go *up* if you turn on heavy loads elsewhere in the hours, get a competent electrician and/or the power company on the issue, stat. He didn't say anything about fluctuations. 123V is a little high, but not unusual. One place I lived the voltage was regularly around 124V. I wouldn't worry about it unless it was changing significantly, not balanced between phases, or going outside the 115-125V range. |
#16
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Light bulb power saver
"Silver Surfer" wrote in message ... Oops. I should have revealed my ulterior motive. My daughter's mother-in-law has an outside light fixture that eats incandescent bulbs for some reason. I measured the voltage and found that it was 123 volts. No other fixtures in the house eat bulbs like this one does. My wild guess is that the house wiring (relatively new abode) may be miswired or defective in some strange way. Would rather not spend a lot of time tracing it out while possibly damaging the wallboard and such. She uses a low wattage bulb in the fixture. My thinking was to use one of the disc thingies in the fixture with a higher wattage bulb. Perhaps the diode would save the bulb from a peculiar voltage surge if that indeed is what is happening. Just trying to find an quick, easy, and lazy way out. Thanks for your valuable comments. "Eeyore" wrote in message ... If it's the same as my house, it's probably the vibration from people slamming the door. Mine is mounted on the outside house wall right next to the front door and regular incandescents wouldn't last very long. The CFL I have out there now is past the normal life span already. WT |
#17
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Light bulb power saver
Silver Surfer wrote:
Oops. I should have revealed my ulterior motive. My daughter's mother-in-law has an outside light fixture that eats incandescent bulbs for some reason. I measured the voltage and found that it was 123 volts. No other fixtures in the house eat bulbs like this one does. My wild guess is that the house wiring (relatively new abode) may be miswired or defective in some strange way. Would rather not spend a lot of time tracing it out while possibly damaging the wallboard and such. If some outlets read higher than others you probably have a problem with the neutral connection. Either in the breaker box, or out by the transformer. Either way, it needs fixed before it opens completely. Even worse, you could have an electrical fire. -- aioe.org is home to cowards and terrorists Add this line to your news proxy nfilter.dat file * drop Path:*aioe.org!not-for-mail to drop all aioe.org traffic. http://improve-usenet.org/index.html |
#18
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Light bulb power saver
Dave Platt wrote:
In article , Silver Surfer wrote: Oops. I should have revealed my ulterior motive. My daughter's mother-in-law has an outside light fixture that eats incandescent bulbs for some reason. I measured the voltage and found that it was 123 volts. No other fixtures in the house eat bulbs like this one does. My wild guess is that the house wiring (relatively new abode) may be miswired or defective in some strange way. Would rather not spend a lot of time tracing it out while possibly damaging the wallboard and such. You may have a significant-to-serious safety issue there... either a misconfigured transformer at the street (sending too high a voltage to the house) or an "open neutral" somewhere. I'd recommend checking other outlets for voltage... if the voltages are high, or (especially) if they go *up* if you turn on heavy loads elsewhere in the hours, get a competent electrician and/or the power company on the issue, stat. An open/loose neutral can lead to serious voltage fluctuations which can burn out or damage appliance motors, or even raise the risk of an electrical fire. My utility (PG&E) apparently considers any report of high/low voltage in the house to be a situation requiring an urgent response. If you really do want to just deal with the light-bulb-burnout issue, go to a well-stocked bulb supplier (rather than a local hardware store) and ask for a "130-volt bulb". These are specifically designed to run on a slightly-higher-than-usual voltage, and on normal line voltage they run a bit dim and cool and with a greatly extended lifetime. They're often used in outdoor and remotely-located fixtures, where bulb replacement is difficult or expensive to perform. I've seen a lot of 130 Volt bulbs at some of the dollar stores, too. -- aioe.org is home to cowards and terrorists Add this line to your news proxy nfilter.dat file * drop Path:*aioe.org!not-for-mail to drop all aioe.org traffic. http://improve-usenet.org/index.html |
#19
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Light bulb power saver
Sam, I dont think G.E.Reveal light bulbs last any longer than any other
regular incandesecent light bulbs.But, in my opinion the light G.E.Reveal light bulbs put out a more natural light.I buy them at the Wal Mart store. cuhulin |
#20
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Light bulb power saver
"Smitty Two" wrote in message news In article , Sam Goldwasser wrote: Aren't Reveal just hugely overpriced incandescnets??? Maybe they last a bit longer but so what? Some people like the light they put out. Here's GE's own claim: "What Makes GE Reveal Bulbs Different GE Reveal bulbs make colors "pop" in a way they don't with standard incandescent bulbs. Why? The rare earth element neodymium that's in the glass. (It's what gives these bulbs their distinctive blue color when unlit.) When these bulbs are lit, the neodymium provides a pure, clean light by filtering out much of the dulling yellow cast common from ordinary light bulbs." You could just increase the filament temperature a little and get the same effect. But then, they couldn't advertise a high priced lamp. |
#21
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Light bulb power saver
"NewsGroups" spar@plaus wrote in message ... "Smitty Two" wrote in message news In article , Sam Goldwasser wrote: Aren't Reveal just hugely overpriced incandescnets??? Maybe they last a bit longer but so what? Some people like the light they put out. Here's GE's own claim: "What Makes GE Reveal Bulbs Different GE Reveal bulbs make colors "pop" in a way they don't with standard incandescent bulbs. Why? The rare earth element neodymium that's in the glass. (It's what gives these bulbs their distinctive blue color when unlit.) When these bulbs are lit, the neodymium provides a pure, clean light by filtering out much of the dulling yellow cast common from ordinary light bulbs." You could just increase the filament temperature a little and get the same effect. But then, they couldn't advertise a high priced lamp. Photoflood bulbs do just this, they're also rated to last a whopping 6 hours. Efficiency and color temperature increase with filament temperature, but unfortunately lifespan decreases exponentially. Standard incandescent is about to go away anyway. |
#22
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Light bulb power saver
writes:
Sam, I dont think G.E.Reveal light bulbs last any longer than any other regular incandesecent light bulbs.But, in my opinion the light G.E.Reveal light bulbs put out a more natural light.I buy them at the Wal Mart store. cuhulin Ah, so they charge a lot more for less light. Wow, now that's MARKETING! How much do they cost a Wal Mart? --- sam | Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/ Repair | Main Table of Contents: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/ +Lasers | Sam's Laser FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/lasersam.htm | Mirror Sites: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/F_mirror.html Important: Anything sent to the email address in the message header above is ignored unless my full name AND either lasers or electronics is included in the subject line. Or, you can contact me via the Feedback Form in the FAQs. |
#23
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Light bulb power saver
Ah, so they charge a lot more for less light. Wow, now that's MARKETING! How much do they cost a Wal Mart? They're just neodymium glass bulbs, the concept has been around for over a century. The blue glass filters out a bit of the yellow light, it does result in a "whiter" appearance, with a penalty in lumen output. IIRC they cost about 50% more than ordinary bulbs, which is not much to begin with. The vast majority of the cost of an incandescent lamp is the electricity to run it. |
#24
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Light bulb power saver
"NewsGroups" spar@plaus wrote in message
... "Smitty Two" wrote in message news In article , Sam Goldwasser wrote: Aren't Reveal just hugely overpriced incandescnets??? Maybe they last a bit longer but so what? Some people like the light they put out. Here's GE's own claim: "What Makes GE Reveal Bulbs Different GE Reveal bulbs make colors "pop" in a way they don't with standard incandescent bulbs. Why? The rare earth element neodymium that's in the glass. (It's what gives these bulbs their distinctive blue color when unlit.) When these bulbs are lit, the neodymium provides a pure, clean light by filtering out much of the dulling yellow cast common from ordinary light bulbs." You could just increase the filament temperature a little and get the same effect. But then, they couldn't advertise a high priced lamp. But that would greatly reduce the bulb's life. The Reveal lamps aren't new -- daylight-balanced tungsten lamps have been around for at least 50 years. |
#25
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Light bulb power saver
"Silver Surfer" wrote in message
... Oops. I should have revealed my ulterior motive. My daughter's mother-in-law has an outside light fixture that eats incandescent bulbs for some reason. I measured the voltage and found that it was 123 volts. No other fixtures in the house eat bulbs like this one does. My wild guess is that the house wiring (relatively new abode) may be miswired or defective in some strange way. Would rather not spend a lot of time tracing it out while possibly damaging the wallboard and such. She uses a low wattage bulb in the fixture. My thinking was to use one of the disc thingies in the fixture with a higher wattage bulb. Perhaps the diode would save the bulb from a peculiar voltage surge if that indeed is what is happening. Just trying to find an quick, easy, and lazy way out. Why don't you just use a 130V appliance bulb? ----- The Lady from Philadelphia |
#26
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Light bulb power saver
My reasoning was that if there truly is some kind of periodic surge that is
taking out the bulbs then perhaps it is of greater magnitude than 130 volts. My other thought was to put in a 230 volt light bulb, but those are a little hard to find on a local store shelf. "William Sommerwerck" wrote in message news Why don't you just use a 130V appliance bulb? ----- The Lady from Philadelphia |
#27
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Light bulb power saver
"Silver Surfer" wrote in message . .. My reasoning was that if there truly is some kind of periodic surge that is taking out the bulbs then perhaps it is of greater magnitude than 130 volts. My other thought was to put in a 230 volt light bulb, but those are a little hard to find on a local store shelf. It's not a surge, no way no how, not gonna kill bulbs like that. I think the guy who said vibration from the door slamming was dead on. Have you ever seen a 230V bulb on 120V? They barely glow. You'd be better off with a candle. |
#28
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Light bulb power saver
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#29
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Light bulb power saver (and now the rest of the story)
Just found out that the daughter's mother-in-law has been on a campaign to
gradually replace incandescents throughout her house with CFLs. Have to tip my hat to her for her initiative. Now with her being a frugal sort what do you think she did with those used/aged incandescent bulbs? Why of course she saved them and was using them as replacements in the outdoor fixture every time a bulb in the fixture burned out, then wondered why they were needing replaced so often. Advised her to either put a CFL in the outdoor fixture or else buy a brand new incandescent to try there. Don't you just love women? "default" wrote in message ... On Tue, 1 Apr 2008 19:30:13 -0400, "Silver Surfer" wrote: Does anyone recall those power saving "discs" for light bulbs they were selling back during the oil embargo days of the 70's. The disc was placed in a standard light bulb fixture and the light bulb was screwed in next. The disc was nothing more than a diode that "saved energy" by blocking power to the bulb for half of each cycle. Is anyone still making these things? If so, where can I buy them? You could always wire a diode into the switch and make it a three position - did that for the reading light over my bed. -- ----== Posted via Pronews.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.pronews.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups ---= - Total Privacy via Encryption =--- |
#30
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Light bulb power saver (and now the rest of the story)
"Roger Blake" wrote in message ... In article , Silver Surfer wrote: Just found out that the daughter's mother-in-law has been on a campaign to gradually replace incandescents throughout her house with CFLs. Have to tip my hat to her for her initiative. My initiative is being used to stock up on incandescent bulbs while they are still available. Already have a good stock, and plan to have a basement full of them by the time they are banned. We prefer the light given off by incandescents and are willing to pay extra to run them. You'll always be able to get incandescents, the ban doesn't cover very slightly more efficient halogen lamps and those put off incandescent light. |
#31
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Light bulb power saver (and now the rest of the story)
"Silver Surfer" writes:
Just found out that the daughter's mother-in-law has been on a campaign to gradually replace incandescents throughout her house with CFLs. Have to tip my hat to her for her initiative. Now with her being a frugal sort what do you think she did with those used/aged incandescent bulbs? Why of course she saved them and was using them as replacements in the outdoor fixture every time a bulb in the fixture burned out, then wondered why they were needing replaced so often. Advised her to either put a CFL in the outdoor fixture or else buy a brand new incandescent to try there. Don't you just love women? The more important point is that outdoor fixtures are exactly the place where CFLs should be used - they may be on for a large precentage of the day and the color isn't that critical. If there isn't an issue of cold temperatures, then CFLs are ideal since the savings due to increased efficiency will be significant. Incandescents can be left in places where they aren't used that much. The difference in efficiency won't matter. --- sam | Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/ Repair | Main Table of Contents: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/ +Lasers | Sam's Laser FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/lasersam.htm | Mirror Sites: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/F_mirror.html Important: Anything sent to the email address in the message header above is ignored unless my full name AND either lasers or electronics is included in the subject line. Or, you can contact me via the Feedback Form in the FAQs. |
#32
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Light bulb power saver (and now the rest of the story)
On Sun, 06 Apr 2008 18:49:56 GMT, "James Sweet" wrote: "Roger Blake" wrote in message . .. In article , Silver Surfer wrote: Just found out that the daughter's mother-in-law has been on a campaign to gradually replace incandescents throughout her house with CFLs. Have to tip my hat to her for her initiative. My initiative is being used to stock up on incandescent bulbs while they are still available. Already have a good stock, and plan to have a basement full of them by the time they are banned. We prefer the light given off by incandescents and are willing to pay extra to run them. You'll always be able to get incandescents, the ban doesn't cover very slightly more efficient halogen lamps and those put off incandescent light. Some incandescent technology might come down the pike to produce light efficiently - isn't the sulphur lamp an incandescent lamp? -- ----== Posted via Pronews.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.pronews.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups ---= - Total Privacy via Encryption =--- |
#33
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Light bulb power saver (and now the rest of the story)
Sam Goldwasser wrote:
The more important point is that outdoor fixtures are exactly the place where CFLs should be used - they may be on for a large precentage of the day and the color isn't that critical. If there isn't an issue of cold temperatures, then CFLs are ideal since the savings due to increased efficiency will be significant. My Feit Electric outdoor CFLs did fine this winter in -10F weather. -- $109,000,000 in income! Capitalism works GREAT for Billary... ...why does she want Marxism for us? |
#34
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Light bulb power saver (and now the rest of the story)
Some incandescent technology might come down the pike to produce light efficiently - isn't the sulphur lamp an incandescent lamp? -- There are various technologies to improve the efficiency of incandescent, I'm sure something better will come along eventually. The sulphur lamp has long been discontinued. It isn't incandescent anyway, it used a magnetron to excite sulphur inside a globe, it was noisy, not very scaleable, and the light apparently was greenish, though I never saw one in operation. |
#35
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Light bulb power saver (and now the rest of the story)
clifto wrote:
Sam Goldwasser wrote: The more important point is that outdoor fixtures are exactly the place where CFLs should be used - they may be on for a large precentage of the day and the color isn't that critical. If there isn't an issue of cold temperatures, then CFLs are ideal since the savings due to increased efficiency will be significant. My Feit Electric outdoor CFLs did fine this winter in -10F weather. I find it inconvenient that i have to wait for 5 minutes to get some light, when I go outside(-10 celcius). And even then I dont think that it came full on after that time. So I replaced it with a TL armament, at least that turns on after one or two seconds. And no, I dont want to leave them on all the time, thats pure waste. |
#36
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Light bulb power saver (and now the rest of the story)
Some incandescent technology might come down the
pike to produce light efficiently - isn't the sulphur lamp an incandescent lamp? There are various technologies to improve the efficiency of incandescent, I'm sure something better will come along eventually. Not likely. The only way (I know of) to improve the efficiency of incandescent lamps is to raise the temperature. Tungsten-halogen lamps seem to represent the limit for consumer lighting. CFLs are the first step in moving to LED lighting. The sulphur lamp has been discontinued. It isn't incandescent anyway, it used a magnetron to excite sulphur inside a globe, it was noisy, not very scaleable, and the light apparently was greenish, though I never saw one in operation. The sulphur lamp was, indeed, incandescent, not fluorescent. (You can't produce visible light by exciting atoms at microwave frequencies.) There was talk of such applications as using a single sulphur lamp to provide all illumination functions in a car (including the headlights) via fiber optics. Ignoring the complexity of such a system (how do you shut off the light where it isn't needed?), the failure of the sulphur lamp would leave you without any illumination. Not a good idea on a dark road. |
#37
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Light bulb power saver (and now the rest of the story)
On Mon, 07 Apr 2008 03:46:21 GMT, "James Sweet" wrote: Some incandescent technology might come down the pike to produce light efficiently - isn't the sulphur lamp an incandescent lamp? -- There are various technologies to improve the efficiency of incandescent, I'm sure something better will come along eventually. The sulphur lamp has long been discontinued. It isn't incandescent anyway, it used a magnetron to excite sulphur inside a globe, it was noisy, not very scaleable, and the light apparently was greenish, though I never saw one in operation. I was (over) reacting to Blake's idea of filling one's basement with incandescent bulbs - allowing for a certain amount of hyperbole: a little arithmetic on the number of bulbs used, life expectancy of the bulb, size of the basement, life expectancy of the user etc., would indicate a lot of hyperbole. Technology marches along and you (or Blake) aren't the only one(s) looking for a full spectrum lamp that approximates sunlight accurately - so there is a market for it. (like "warm white" LED's still not incandescent, but market and demand driven to improve the technology) The original sulphur lamps were blue white but full spectrum. And looking at the design, they took some industrial microwave oven magnetrons, aimed them at a small globe of sulphur and that was pretty much it - I'd question their integrity, they may have been scamming the DEO for development funds, given the crude model, time spent and lack of finesse. (but they did come up with a proof of concept) I think they burned something like 5 KW to get 1KW to the emitter for a luminous efficiency worse than fluorescent lamps when all was said and done - even before reflector losses and transmission losses. They almost had to go big with the concept lamps since they used low frequency microwaves. A pea sized sulphur lamp might need a much higher excitation frequency so they'd have to buy some expensive military magnetrons or develop their own - and run afoul of the FCC in the process. The need to rotate the bulb was found to be unnecessary because the microwaves can used to rotate the plasma but they were already out of business by then. I've already adapted to the CF lamps - but still have a few incandescent ones - for the bedroom and beer aging room. I even switched out a 75 W outdoor flood with a home made trio of Cree 1 W leds. I find the white/blue light desirable when using a flashlight and especially outdoors at night. -- ----== Posted via Pronews.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.pronews.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups ---= - Total Privacy via Encryption =--- |
#38
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Light bulb power saver (and now the rest of the story)
On Mon, 7 Apr 2008 04:15:09 -0700, "William Sommerwerck" wrote: Shamelessly copied from the electronics design newsgroup: A Tic-Tac-sized lightbulb that gives off as much light as a streetlamp may offer a peek at the ultra-efficient lighting of the future. The bulb, developed by Luxim of Sunnyvale, California, uses plasma technology to achieve its brightness. The tiny bulb contains an argon gas in the middle, as well as a component called a "puck." The bulb is partially embedded in a dielectric material. When electrical energy is delivered to the puck, the puck acts like an electrical lens. It heats up the argon to a temperature of 6000 degrees Kelvin, and turns the gas into a plasma that gives off light. The plasma, whose 6000-degree temperature is similar to that of the surface of the sun, also emits a spectrum that looks very similar to the spectrum of sunlight. The plasma bulb uses 250 watts, and achieves around 140 lumens per watt, making it very bright and highly efficient. By comparison, conventional lightbulbs and high-end LEDs get around 15 and 70 lumens per watt, respectively. "A key advantage is that the energy is driven into the bulb without any electrodes, so you don't need any electrical connections to get the energy into the bulb," Luxim CEO Tony McGettigan explained to ZDNet. Luxim is using different versions of its electrode-less plasma technology to develop lighting for ultra-bright projection displays, retail and street lighting, microscope lighting, and various medical applications. http://www.physorg.com/news125238861.html -- ----== Posted via Pronews.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.pronews.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups ---= - Total Privacy via Encryption =--- |
#39
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LIFI Plasma lamps. Was: Light bulb power saver (and now the rest of the story)
On Mon, 07 Apr 2008 11:46:34 -0500, msg wrote:
RFI from these devices may be significant; an FCC type acceptance would provide more data, but unfortunately most self-certified products now lack online reference data (more research needed for this product). If you can find the FCC ID number from the product, the test data can be obtained at: https://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/reports/GenericSearch.cfm Hopefully, it will have the frequency of operation. Anyone here that encounters HDTVs that include this device are encouraged to do a spectrum sweep if you have the gear. Michael Apparently, Panasonic is using Lifi devices: http://www.engadget.com/tag/lifi/ I didn't have any luck finding the FCC ID numbers. More light reading: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulfur_lamp (lots of references) http://www.luxim.com http://www.ceravision.com/technology.php -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
#40
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Light bulb power saver (and now the rest of the story)
Not likely. The only way (I know of) to improve the efficiency of incandescent lamps is to raise the temperature. Tungsten-halogen lamps seem to represent the limit for consumer lighting. Duro-Test briefly marketed an incandescent lamp with an internal IR reflective coating which focussed otherwise lost heat back to the filament and resulted in substantially improved efficiency. Unfortunately problems with the compact and stiff filament required to keep it in the focus of the returned heat also lead to problems with breakage due to it being brittle. If you can keep the heat where you want it, you don't have to supply as much power to keep the filament hot. What I meant in my comment though was not dramatic improvements in incandescent technology, but new lighting technologies will eventually come around. LED and OLED technology will continue to improve, induction lamps while technically fluorescent, are promising and see gradually increasing use. Phosphor mixes with excellent color rendering do exist, but are less efficient than the 80 CRI stuff that are used for most CFLs. Ceramic metal halide lamps are available with 90+ CRI and exceed 80 lumens per watt. Who knows what else might be on the horizon. |
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