Electronics Repair (sci.electronics.repair) Discussion of repairing electronic equipment. Topics include requests for assistance, where to obtain servicing information and parts, techniques for diagnosis and repair, and annecdotes about success, failures and problems.

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Default Light bulb power saver

Does anyone recall those power saving "discs" for light bulbs they were
selling back during the oil embargo days of the 70's. The disc was placed
in a standard light bulb fixture and the light bulb was screwed in next.
The disc was nothing more than a diode that "saved energy" by blocking power
to the bulb for half of each cycle.

Is anyone still making these things? If so, where can I buy them?

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"Silver Surfer" wrote in message
. ..
Does anyone recall those power saving "discs" for light bulbs they were
selling back during the oil embargo days of the 70's. The disc was placed
in a standard light bulb fixture and the light bulb was screwed in next.
The disc was nothing more than a diode that "saved energy" by blocking
power to the bulb for half of each cycle.

Is anyone still making these things? If so, where can I buy them?


Why would you want one? They save very little energy and greatly reduce the
efficiency of the bulb. If you want to save power, get a compact fluorescent
or use a lower wattage bulb. You'll obtain superior results with either.


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In article ,
Silver Surfer wrote:

Does anyone recall those power saving "discs" for light bulbs they were
selling back during the oil embargo days of the 70's.


Oh, yeah, those things!

The disc was placed
in a standard light bulb fixture and the light bulb was screwed in next.
The disc was nothing more than a diode that "saved energy" by blocking power
to the bulb for half of each cycle.

Is anyone still making these things? If so, where can I buy them?


I think they've gone seriously out of favor for several reasons.
Somebody probably makes them but I don't think I've seen one in a
store in over a decade.

Disadvantages;

- They make the filament run significantly cooler, which both reduces
the absolute light output and shifts the peak of the bulb's
spectrum further towards the infra-red. I suspect that they
actually *decrease* energy efficiency, in that you get less useful
lumens-per-watt, because less of the filament's output is in the
portions of the spectrum to which the human eye is sensitive.

You're better off just buying a lower-wattage light bulb, or
(better yet) a compact fluorescent.

- They'll probably kill off halogen bulbs fairly quickly - dimming
halogen bulbs and reducing the filament temperature interferes with
the tungsten/halogen sequestration/redeposition cycle, and the
filaments burn out more quickly than they need to.

- By half-wave-rectifying the current on the line, they'll be
creating some fairly severe harmonic currents on the mains. This
results in additional losses in the power distribution system. The
utility providers *hate* harmonic currents.

- Similarly, by placing a half-wave-rectifying load on the circuit,
they'll have the effect of creating some amount of DC offset of the
voltage on the circuit. This is likely to cause buzzing of any
consumer-electronics device containing a toroidal power transformer
(e.g. some audio amps).

- I have a vague recollection that these discs were reported to have
caused overheating or fires... I'm not sure under what conditions.

--
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I think I once read somewhere many years ago some of those gadgets
shorted out and caused some fires.I use G.E.Reveal incandescent light
bulbs, except in my kitchen and my bathroom where I use one flourescent
light in each of those two rooms.I never turn those two lights off.
cuhulin

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Silver Surfer wrote:

Does anyone recall those power saving "discs" for light bulbs they were
selling back during the oil embargo days of the 70's. The disc was placed
in a standard light bulb fixture and the light bulb was screwed in next.
The disc was nothing more than a diode that "saved energy" by blocking power
to the bulb for half of each cycle.


A complete waste of time for all the reasons given by other posters.

Use CFLs or a lower wattage incandescent bulb.

Graham



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Default Light bulb power saver

(Dave Platt) writes:

In article ,
Silver Surfer wrote:

Does anyone recall those power saving "discs" for light bulbs they were
selling back during the oil embargo days of the 70's.


Oh, yeah, those things!

The disc was placed
in a standard light bulb fixture and the light bulb was screwed in next.
The disc was nothing more than a diode that "saved energy" by blocking power
to the bulb for half of each cycle.

Is anyone still making these things? If so, where can I buy them?


I think they've gone seriously out of favor for several reasons.
Somebody probably makes them but I don't think I've seen one in a
store in over a decade.

Disadvantages;

- They make the filament run significantly cooler, which both reduces
the absolute light output and shifts the peak of the bulb's
spectrum further towards the infra-red. I suspect that they
actually *decrease* energy efficiency, in that you get less useful
lumens-per-watt, because less of the filament's output is in the
portions of the spectrum to which the human eye is sensitive.

You're better off just buying a lower-wattage light bulb, or
(better yet) a compact fluorescent.

- They'll probably kill off halogen bulbs fairly quickly - dimming
halogen bulbs and reducing the filament temperature interferes with
the tungsten/halogen sequestration/redeposition cycle, and the
filaments burn out more quickly than they need to.

- By half-wave-rectifying the current on the line, they'll be
creating some fairly severe harmonic currents on the mains. This
results in additional losses in the power distribution system. The
utility providers *hate* harmonic currents.

- Similarly, by placing a half-wave-rectifying load on the circuit,
they'll have the effect of creating some amount of DC offset of the
voltage on the circuit. This is likely to cause buzzing of any
consumer-electronics device containing a toroidal power transformer
(e.g. some audio amps).


HeHeHe.... Well, in a fixture with two sockets, put bulb saver thingies
in with opposite polarity.

So, your two 100 W bulbs will use only perhaps 150 W of electrical power
and produce a total light output equivalent to a single 100 W bulb.

(All calculations very approximate!)

The entire idea of extending bulb life is ridiculous for incandescents
unless they are hard to reach for replacement.

The cost of the bulbs is minimal. It's the power to run them over their
life that dominates. So, efficiency ends up becomming much more important
than life in most cases.

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- I have a vague recollection that these discs were reported to have
caused overheating or fires... I'm not sure under what conditions.

--
Dave Platt AE6EO
Friends of Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!

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Default Light bulb power saver

writes:

I think I once read somewhere many years ago some of those gadgets
shorted out and caused some fires.I use G.E.Reveal incandescent light
bulbs, except in my kitchen and my bathroom where I use one flourescent
light in each of those two rooms.I never turn those two lights off.
cuhulin


Aren't Reveal just hugely overpriced incandescnets??? Maybe they last
a bit longer but so what?

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Default Light bulb power saver

In article ,
Sam Goldwasser wrote:

Aren't Reveal just hugely overpriced incandescnets??? Maybe they last
a bit longer but so what?


Some people like the light they put out. Here's GE's own claim:

"What Makes GE Reveal Bulbs Different

GE Reveal bulbs make colors "pop" in a way they don't with standard
incandescent bulbs.

Why? The rare earth element neodymium that's in the glass. (It's what
gives these bulbs their distinctive blue color when unlit.) When these
bulbs are lit, the neodymium provides a pure, clean light by filtering
out much of the dulling yellow cast common from ordinary light bulbs."
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Default Light bulb power saver

Oops. I should have revealed my ulterior motive. My daughter's
mother-in-law has an outside light fixture that eats incandescent bulbs for
some reason. I measured the voltage and found that it was 123 volts. No
other fixtures in the house eat bulbs like this one does. My wild guess is
that the house wiring (relatively new abode) may be miswired or defective in
some strange way. Would rather not spend a lot of time tracing it out while
possibly damaging the wallboard and such.

She uses a low wattage bulb in the fixture. My thinking was to use one of
the disc thingies in the fixture with a higher wattage bulb. Perhaps the
diode would save the bulb from a peculiar voltage surge if that indeed is
what is happening. Just trying to find an quick, easy, and lazy way out.

Thanks for your valuable comments.

"Eeyore" wrote in message
...


Silver Surfer wrote:

Does anyone recall those power saving "discs" for light bulbs they were
selling back during the oil embargo days of the 70's. The disc was
placed
in a standard light bulb fixture and the light bulb was screwed in next.
The disc was nothing more than a diode that "saved energy" by blocking
power
to the bulb for half of each cycle.


A complete waste of time for all the reasons given by other posters.

Use CFLs or a lower wattage incandescent bulb.

Graham


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Default Light bulb power saver

In article , "Silver Surfer" wrote:
Oops. I should have revealed my ulterior motive. My daughter's
mother-in-law has an outside light fixture that eats incandescent bulbs for
some reason. I measured the voltage and found that it was 123 volts. No
other fixtures in the house eat bulbs like this one does. My wild guess is
that the house wiring (relatively new abode) may be miswired or defective in
some strange way. Would rather not spend a lot of time tracing it out while
possibly damaging the wallboard and such.

She uses a low wattage bulb in the fixture. My thinking was to use one of
the disc thingies in the fixture with a higher wattage bulb. Perhaps the
diode would save the bulb from a peculiar voltage surge if that indeed is
what is happening. Just trying to find an quick, easy, and lazy way out.


I use CFL's. My outside lamp is on continious for at least 1.5 years.
I don't turn it off. I have 4 inside I never turn off. I just bought a 75 ot 100 watt CFL
equiv. at The Home Depot and its burned out allready in less than 1 week, but thats not
normal for me. These high color temp bulbs are amazing but may run hotter.

I think lamp dimmers help extend incandescents life.

The blued incadescents lamps have less Lumens output.

greg


Thanks for your valuable comments.

"Eeyore" wrote in message
...


Silver Surfer wrote:

Does anyone recall those power saving "discs" for light bulbs they were
selling back during the oil embargo days of the 70's. The disc was
placed
in a standard light bulb fixture and the light bulb was screwed in next.
The disc was nothing more than a diode that "saved energy" by blocking
power
to the bulb for half of each cycle.


A complete waste of time for all the reasons given by other posters.

Use CFLs or a lower wattage incandescent bulb.

Graham




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Default Light bulb power saver



"Silver Surfer" wrote in message
...
Oops. I should have revealed my ulterior motive. My daughter's
mother-in-law has an outside light fixture that eats incandescent bulbs
for some reason. I measured the voltage and found that it was 123 volts.
No other fixtures in the house eat bulbs like this one does. My wild
guess is that the house wiring (relatively new abode) may be miswired or
defective in some strange way. Would rather not spend a lot of time
tracing it out while possibly damaging the wallboard and such.

She uses a low wattage bulb in the fixture. My thinking was to use one of
the disc thingies in the fixture with a higher wattage bulb. Perhaps the
diode would save the bulb from a peculiar voltage surge if that indeed is
what is happening. Just trying to find an quick, easy, and lazy way out.

Thanks for your valuable comments.



Nothing in the house wiring could cause that issue, though 123V is a tad on
the high side. Thermal issues in the fixture, vibration, or usage patterns
affect lamp life. You can also get long life bulbs rated 130V which will
probably solve your problem. Why not use a compact fluorescent though? I use
them in all my exterior lights, most are on dusk till dawn and I get about 2
years out of the bulbs.


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On Tue, 1 Apr 2008 19:30:13 -0400, "Silver Surfer"
wrote:

Does anyone recall those power saving "discs" for light bulbs they were
selling back during the oil embargo days of the 70's. The disc was placed
in a standard light bulb fixture and the light bulb was screwed in next.
The disc was nothing more than a diode that "saved energy" by blocking power
to the bulb for half of each cycle.

Is anyone still making these things? If so, where can I buy them?


You could always wire a diode into the switch and make it a three
position - did that for the reading light over my bed.
--


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Default Light bulb power saver

In article ,
Silver Surfer wrote:

Oops. I should have revealed my ulterior motive. My daughter's
mother-in-law has an outside light fixture that eats incandescent bulbs for
some reason. I measured the voltage and found that it was 123 volts. No
other fixtures in the house eat bulbs like this one does. My wild guess is
that the house wiring (relatively new abode) may be miswired or defective in
some strange way. Would rather not spend a lot of time tracing it out while
possibly damaging the wallboard and such.


You may have a significant-to-serious safety issue there... either a
misconfigured transformer at the street (sending too high a voltage to
the house) or an "open neutral" somewhere. I'd recommend checking
other outlets for voltage... if the voltages are high, or (especially)
if they go *up* if you turn on heavy loads elsewhere in the hours, get
a competent electrician and/or the power company on the issue, stat.

An open/loose neutral can lead to serious voltage fluctuations which
can burn out or damage appliance motors, or even raise the risk of an
electrical fire. My utility (PG&E) apparently considers any report of
high/low voltage in the house to be a situation requiring an urgent
response.

If you really do want to just deal with the light-bulb-burnout issue,
go to a well-stocked bulb supplier (rather than a local hardware
store) and ask for a "130-volt bulb". These are specifically designed
to run on a slightly-higher-than-usual voltage, and on normal line
voltage they run a bit dim and cool and with a greatly extended
lifetime. They're often used in outdoor and remotely-located
fixtures, where bulb replacement is difficult or expensive to perform.

--
Dave Platt AE6EO
Friends of Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!
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You may have a significant-to-serious safety issue there... either a
misconfigured transformer at the street (sending too high a voltage to
the house) or an "open neutral" somewhere. I'd recommend checking
other outlets for voltage... if the voltages are high, or (especially)
if they go *up* if you turn on heavy loads elsewhere in the hours, get
a competent electrician and/or the power company on the issue, stat.



He didn't say anything about fluctuations. 123V is a little high, but not
unusual. One place I lived the voltage was regularly around 124V. I wouldn't
worry about it unless it was changing significantly, not balanced between
phases, or going outside the 115-125V range.




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"Silver Surfer" wrote in message
...
Oops. I should have revealed my ulterior motive. My daughter's
mother-in-law has an outside light fixture that eats incandescent bulbs
for some reason. I measured the voltage and found that it was 123 volts.
No other fixtures in the house eat bulbs like this one does. My wild
guess is that the house wiring (relatively new abode) may be miswired or
defective in some strange way. Would rather not spend a lot of time
tracing it out while possibly damaging the wallboard and such.

She uses a low wattage bulb in the fixture. My thinking was to use one of
the disc thingies in the fixture with a higher wattage bulb. Perhaps the
diode would save the bulb from a peculiar voltage surge if that indeed is
what is happening. Just trying to find an quick, easy, and lazy way out.

Thanks for your valuable comments.

"Eeyore" wrote in message
...


If it's the same as my house, it's probably the vibration from people
slamming the door. Mine is mounted on the outside house wall right next to
the front door and regular incandescents wouldn't last very long. The CFL I
have out there now is past the normal life span already.

WT


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Silver Surfer wrote:

Oops. I should have revealed my ulterior motive. My daughter's
mother-in-law has an outside light fixture that eats incandescent bulbs for
some reason. I measured the voltage and found that it was 123 volts. No
other fixtures in the house eat bulbs like this one does. My wild guess is
that the house wiring (relatively new abode) may be miswired or defective in
some strange way. Would rather not spend a lot of time tracing it out while
possibly damaging the wallboard and such.



If some outlets read higher than others you probably have a problem
with the neutral connection. Either in the breaker box, or out by the
transformer. Either way, it needs fixed before it opens completely.
Even worse, you could have an electrical fire.

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Dave Platt wrote:

In article ,
Silver Surfer wrote:

Oops. I should have revealed my ulterior motive. My daughter's
mother-in-law has an outside light fixture that eats incandescent bulbs for
some reason. I measured the voltage and found that it was 123 volts. No
other fixtures in the house eat bulbs like this one does. My wild guess is
that the house wiring (relatively new abode) may be miswired or defective in
some strange way. Would rather not spend a lot of time tracing it out while
possibly damaging the wallboard and such.


You may have a significant-to-serious safety issue there... either a
misconfigured transformer at the street (sending too high a voltage to
the house) or an "open neutral" somewhere. I'd recommend checking
other outlets for voltage... if the voltages are high, or (especially)
if they go *up* if you turn on heavy loads elsewhere in the hours, get
a competent electrician and/or the power company on the issue, stat.

An open/loose neutral can lead to serious voltage fluctuations which
can burn out or damage appliance motors, or even raise the risk of an
electrical fire. My utility (PG&E) apparently considers any report of
high/low voltage in the house to be a situation requiring an urgent
response.

If you really do want to just deal with the light-bulb-burnout issue,
go to a well-stocked bulb supplier (rather than a local hardware
store) and ask for a "130-volt bulb". These are specifically designed
to run on a slightly-higher-than-usual voltage, and on normal line
voltage they run a bit dim and cool and with a greatly extended
lifetime. They're often used in outdoor and remotely-located
fixtures, where bulb replacement is difficult or expensive to perform.



I've seen a lot of 130 Volt bulbs at some of the dollar stores, too.


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Sam, I dont think G.E.Reveal light bulbs last any longer than any other
regular incandesecent light bulbs.But, in my opinion the light
G.E.Reveal light bulbs put out a more natural light.I buy them at the
Wal Mart store.
cuhulin

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"Smitty Two" wrote in message
news
In article ,
Sam Goldwasser wrote:

Aren't Reveal just hugely overpriced incandescnets??? Maybe they last
a bit longer but so what?


Some people like the light they put out. Here's GE's own claim:

"What Makes GE Reveal Bulbs Different

GE Reveal bulbs make colors "pop" in a way they don't with standard
incandescent bulbs.

Why? The rare earth element neodymium that's in the glass. (It's what
gives these bulbs their distinctive blue color when unlit.) When these
bulbs are lit, the neodymium provides a pure, clean light by filtering
out much of the dulling yellow cast common from ordinary light bulbs."


You could just increase the filament temperature a little and get the same
effect. But then, they couldn't advertise a high priced lamp.



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"NewsGroups" spar@plaus wrote in message
...

"Smitty Two" wrote in message
news
In article ,
Sam Goldwasser wrote:

Aren't Reveal just hugely overpriced incandescnets??? Maybe they
last
a bit longer but so what?


Some people like the light they put out. Here's GE's own claim:

"What Makes GE Reveal Bulbs Different

GE Reveal bulbs make colors "pop" in a way they don't with standard
incandescent bulbs.

Why? The rare earth element neodymium that's in the glass. (It's what
gives these bulbs their distinctive blue color when unlit.) When these
bulbs are lit, the neodymium provides a pure, clean light by filtering
out much of the dulling yellow cast common from ordinary light bulbs."


You could just increase the filament temperature a little and get the same
effect. But then, they couldn't advertise a high priced lamp.



Photoflood bulbs do just this, they're also rated to last a whopping 6
hours.

Efficiency and color temperature increase with filament temperature, but
unfortunately lifespan decreases exponentially.

Standard incandescent is about to go away anyway.


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writes:

Sam, I dont think G.E.Reveal light bulbs last any longer than any other
regular incandesecent light bulbs.But, in my opinion the light
G.E.Reveal light bulbs put out a more natural light.I buy them at the
Wal Mart store.
cuhulin


Ah, so they charge a lot more for less light. Wow, now that's
MARKETING!

How much do they cost a Wal Mart?

--- sam | Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ:
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| Mirror Sites: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/F_mirror.html

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Ah, so they charge a lot more for less light. Wow, now that's
MARKETING!

How much do they cost a Wal Mart?




They're just neodymium glass bulbs, the concept has been around for over a
century. The blue glass filters out a bit of the yellow light, it does
result in a "whiter" appearance, with a penalty in lumen output. IIRC they
cost about 50% more than ordinary bulbs, which is not much to begin with.
The vast majority of the cost of an incandescent lamp is the electricity to
run it.


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"NewsGroups" spar@plaus wrote in message
...

"Smitty Two" wrote in message
news
In article ,
Sam Goldwasser wrote:

Aren't Reveal just hugely overpriced incandescnets??? Maybe they

last
a bit longer but so what?


Some people like the light they put out. Here's GE's own claim:

"What Makes GE Reveal Bulbs Different

GE Reveal bulbs make colors "pop" in a way they don't with standard
incandescent bulbs.

Why? The rare earth element neodymium that's in the glass. (It's what
gives these bulbs their distinctive blue color when unlit.) When these
bulbs are lit, the neodymium provides a pure, clean light by filtering
out much of the dulling yellow cast common from ordinary light bulbs."


You could just increase the filament temperature a little and get the same
effect. But then, they couldn't advertise a high priced lamp.


But that would greatly reduce the bulb's life.

The Reveal lamps aren't new -- daylight-balanced tungsten lamps have been
around for at least 50 years.


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"Silver Surfer" wrote in message
...
Oops. I should have revealed my ulterior motive. My daughter's
mother-in-law has an outside light fixture that eats incandescent bulbs

for
some reason. I measured the voltage and found that it was 123 volts. No
other fixtures in the house eat bulbs like this one does. My wild guess

is
that the house wiring (relatively new abode) may be miswired or defective

in
some strange way. Would rather not spend a lot of time tracing it out

while
possibly damaging the wallboard and such.

She uses a low wattage bulb in the fixture. My thinking was to use one of
the disc thingies in the fixture with a higher wattage bulb. Perhaps the
diode would save the bulb from a peculiar voltage surge if that indeed is
what is happening. Just trying to find an quick, easy, and lazy way out.


Why don't you just use a 130V appliance bulb?

----- The Lady from Philadelphia




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Default Light bulb power saver

My reasoning was that if there truly is some kind of periodic surge that is
taking out the bulbs then perhaps it is of greater magnitude than 130 volts.
My other thought was to put in a 230 volt light bulb, but those are a little
hard to find on a local store shelf.

"William Sommerwerck" wrote in message
news
Why don't you just use a 130V appliance bulb?

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"Silver Surfer" wrote in message
. ..
My reasoning was that if there truly is some kind of periodic surge that
is taking out the bulbs then perhaps it is of greater magnitude than 130
volts. My other thought was to put in a 230 volt light bulb, but those are
a little hard to find on a local store shelf.



It's not a surge, no way no how, not gonna kill bulbs like that. I think the
guy who said vibration from the door slamming was dead on.

Have you ever seen a 230V bulb on 120V? They barely glow. You'd be better
off with a candle.


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Just found out that the daughter's mother-in-law has been on a campaign to
gradually replace incandescents throughout her house with CFLs. Have to tip
my hat to her for her initiative. Now with her being a frugal sort what do
you think she did with those used/aged incandescent bulbs? Why of course
she saved them and was using them as replacements in the outdoor fixture
every time a bulb in the fixture burned out, then wondered why they were
needing replaced so often. Advised her to either put a CFL in the outdoor
fixture or else buy a brand new incandescent to try there. Don't you just
love women?


"default" wrote in message
...

On Tue, 1 Apr 2008 19:30:13 -0400, "Silver Surfer"
wrote:

Does anyone recall those power saving "discs" for light bulbs they were
selling back during the oil embargo days of the 70's. The disc was placed
in a standard light bulb fixture and the light bulb was screwed in next.
The disc was nothing more than a diode that "saved energy" by blocking
power
to the bulb for half of each cycle.

Is anyone still making these things? If so, where can I buy them?


You could always wire a diode into the switch and make it a three
position - did that for the reading light over my bed.
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"Roger Blake" wrote in message
...
In article , Silver Surfer
wrote:
Just found out that the daughter's mother-in-law has been on a campaign
to
gradually replace incandescents throughout her house with CFLs. Have to
tip
my hat to her for her initiative.


My initiative is being used to stock up on incandescent bulbs while
they are still available. Already have a good stock, and plan to have
a basement full of them by the time they are banned. We prefer the
light given off by incandescents and are willing to pay extra to
run them.



You'll always be able to get incandescents, the ban doesn't cover very
slightly more efficient halogen lamps and those put off incandescent light.




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Default Light bulb power saver (and now the rest of the story)

"Silver Surfer" writes:

Just found out that the daughter's mother-in-law has been on a
campaign to gradually replace incandescents throughout her house with
CFLs. Have to tip my hat to her for her initiative. Now with her
being a frugal sort what do you think she did with those used/aged
incandescent bulbs? Why of course she saved them and was using them
as replacements in the outdoor fixture every time a bulb in the
fixture burned out, then wondered why they were needing replaced so
often. Advised her to either put a CFL in the outdoor fixture or else
buy a brand new incandescent to try there. Don't you just love women?


The more important point is that outdoor fixtures are exactly the place
where CFLs should be used - they may be on for a large precentage of the
day and the color isn't that critical. If there isn't an issue of cold
temperatures, then CFLs are ideal since the savings due to increased
efficiency will be significant.

Incandescents can be left in places where they aren't used that much.
The difference in efficiency won't matter.

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Default Light bulb power saver (and now the rest of the story)


On Sun, 06 Apr 2008 18:49:56 GMT, "James Sweet"
wrote:



"Roger Blake" wrote in message
. ..
In article , Silver Surfer
wrote:
Just found out that the daughter's mother-in-law has been on a campaign
to
gradually replace incandescents throughout her house with CFLs. Have to
tip
my hat to her for her initiative.


My initiative is being used to stock up on incandescent bulbs while
they are still available. Already have a good stock, and plan to have
a basement full of them by the time they are banned. We prefer the
light given off by incandescents and are willing to pay extra to
run them.



You'll always be able to get incandescents, the ban doesn't cover very
slightly more efficient halogen lamps and those put off incandescent light.

Some incandescent technology might come down the pike to produce light
efficiently - isn't the sulphur lamp an incandescent lamp?
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Default Light bulb power saver (and now the rest of the story)

Sam Goldwasser wrote:
The more important point is that outdoor fixtures are exactly the place
where CFLs should be used - they may be on for a large precentage of the
day and the color isn't that critical. If there isn't an issue of cold
temperatures, then CFLs are ideal since the savings due to increased
efficiency will be significant.


My Feit Electric outdoor CFLs did fine this winter in -10F weather.

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Some incandescent technology might come down the pike to produce light
efficiently - isn't the sulphur lamp an incandescent lamp?
--



There are various technologies to improve the efficiency of incandescent,
I'm sure something better will come along eventually.

The sulphur lamp has long been discontinued. It isn't incandescent anyway,
it used a magnetron to excite sulphur inside a globe, it was noisy, not very
scaleable, and the light apparently was greenish, though I never saw one in
operation.


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Default Light bulb power saver (and now the rest of the story)

clifto wrote:
Sam Goldwasser wrote:
The more important point is that outdoor fixtures are exactly the place
where CFLs should be used - they may be on for a large precentage of the
day and the color isn't that critical. If there isn't an issue of cold
temperatures, then CFLs are ideal since the savings due to increased
efficiency will be significant.


My Feit Electric outdoor CFLs did fine this winter in -10F weather.

I find it inconvenient that i have to wait for 5 minutes
to get some light, when I go outside(-10 celcius).
And even then I dont think that it came full on after that time.
So I replaced it with a TL armament, at least that turns on
after one or two seconds.
And no, I dont want to leave them on all the time, thats pure waste.


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Default Light bulb power saver (and now the rest of the story)

Some incandescent technology might come down the
pike to produce light efficiently - isn't the sulphur lamp
an incandescent lamp?


There are various technologies to improve the efficiency of
incandescent, I'm sure something better will come along
eventually.


Not likely. The only way (I know of) to improve the efficiency of
incandescent lamps is to raise the temperature. Tungsten-halogen lamps seem
to represent the limit for consumer lighting.

CFLs are the first step in moving to LED lighting.


The sulphur lamp has been discontinued. It isn't incandescent
anyway, it used a magnetron to excite sulphur inside a globe,
it was noisy, not very scaleable, and the light apparently was
greenish, though I never saw one in operation.


The sulphur lamp was, indeed, incandescent, not fluorescent. (You can't
produce visible light by exciting atoms at microwave frequencies.)

There was talk of such applications as using a single sulphur lamp to
provide all illumination functions in a car (including the headlights) via
fiber optics. Ignoring the complexity of such a system (how do you shut off
the light where it isn't needed?), the failure of the sulphur lamp would
leave you without any illumination. Not a good idea on a dark road.


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On Mon, 07 Apr 2008 03:46:21 GMT, "James Sweet"
wrote:



Some incandescent technology might come down the pike to produce light
efficiently - isn't the sulphur lamp an incandescent lamp?
--



There are various technologies to improve the efficiency of incandescent,
I'm sure something better will come along eventually.

The sulphur lamp has long been discontinued. It isn't incandescent anyway,
it used a magnetron to excite sulphur inside a globe, it was noisy, not very
scaleable, and the light apparently was greenish, though I never saw one in
operation.

I was (over) reacting to Blake's idea of filling one's basement with
incandescent bulbs - allowing for a certain amount of hyperbole: a
little arithmetic on the number of bulbs used, life expectancy of the
bulb, size of the basement, life expectancy of the user etc., would
indicate a lot of hyperbole.

Technology marches along and you (or Blake) aren't the only one(s)
looking for a full spectrum lamp that approximates sunlight accurately
- so there is a market for it. (like "warm white" LED's still not
incandescent, but market and demand driven to improve the technology)

The original sulphur lamps were blue white but full spectrum. And
looking at the design, they took some industrial microwave oven
magnetrons, aimed them at a small globe of sulphur and that was pretty
much it - I'd question their integrity, they may have been scamming
the DEO for development funds, given the crude model, time spent and
lack of finesse.
(but they did come up with a proof of concept)

I think they burned something like 5 KW to get 1KW to the emitter for
a luminous efficiency worse than fluorescent lamps when all was said
and done - even before reflector losses and transmission losses.

They almost had to go big with the concept lamps since they used low
frequency microwaves. A pea sized sulphur lamp might need a much
higher excitation frequency so they'd have to buy some expensive
military magnetrons or develop their own - and run afoul of the FCC in
the process. The need to rotate the bulb was found to be unnecessary
because the microwaves can used to rotate the plasma but they were
already out of business by then.

I've already adapted to the CF lamps - but still have a few
incandescent ones - for the bedroom and beer aging room. I even
switched out a 75 W outdoor flood with a home made trio of Cree 1 W
leds.

I find the white/blue light desirable when using a flashlight and
especially outdoors at night.

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On Mon, 7 Apr 2008 04:15:09 -0700, "William Sommerwerck"
wrote:

Shamelessly copied from the electronics design newsgroup:

A Tic-Tac-sized lightbulb that gives off as much light as a
streetlamp may offer a peek at the ultra-efficient lighting of the
future. The bulb, developed by Luxim of Sunnyvale, California, uses
plasma technology to achieve its brightness.
The tiny bulb contains an argon gas in the middle, as well as a
component called a "puck." The bulb is partially embedded in a
dielectric material. When electrical energy is delivered to the puck,
the puck acts like an electrical lens. It heats up the argon to a
temperature of 6000 degrees Kelvin, and turns the gas into a plasma
that gives off light.

The plasma, whose 6000-degree temperature is similar to that of the
surface of the sun, also emits a spectrum that looks very similar to
the spectrum of sunlight.

The plasma bulb uses 250 watts, and achieves around 140 lumens per
watt, making it very bright and highly efficient. By comparison,
conventional lightbulbs and high-end LEDs get around 15 and 70 lumens
per watt, respectively.

"A key advantage is that the energy is driven into the bulb without
any electrodes, so you don't need any electrical connections to get
the energy into the bulb," Luxim CEO Tony McGettigan explained to
ZDNet.

Luxim is using different versions of its electrode-less plasma
technology to develop lighting for ultra-bright projection displays,
retail and street lighting, microscope lighting, and various medical
applications.

http://www.physorg.com/news125238861.html
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Default LIFI Plasma lamps. Was: Light bulb power saver (and now the rest of the story)

On Mon, 07 Apr 2008 11:46:34 -0500, msg wrote:

RFI from these devices may be significant; an FCC type acceptance
would provide more data, but unfortunately most self-certified
products now lack online reference data (more research needed
for this product).


If you can find the FCC ID number from the product, the test data can
be obtained at:
https://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/reports/GenericSearch.cfm
Hopefully, it will have the frequency of operation.

Anyone here that encounters HDTVs that include this device are
encouraged to do a spectrum sweep if you have the gear.

Michael


Apparently, Panasonic is using Lifi devices:
http://www.engadget.com/tag/lifi/
I didn't have any luck finding the FCC ID numbers.

More light reading:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulfur_lamp (lots of references)
http://www.luxim.com
http://www.ceravision.com/technology.php

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Not likely. The only way (I know of) to improve the efficiency of
incandescent lamps is to raise the temperature. Tungsten-halogen lamps
seem
to represent the limit for consumer lighting.


Duro-Test briefly marketed an incandescent lamp with an internal IR
reflective coating which focussed otherwise lost heat back to the filament
and resulted in substantially improved efficiency. Unfortunately problems
with the compact and stiff filament required to keep it in the focus of the
returned heat also lead to problems with breakage due to it being brittle.
If you can keep the heat where you want it, you don't have to supply as much
power to keep the filament hot.

What I meant in my comment though was not dramatic improvements in
incandescent technology, but new lighting technologies will eventually come
around. LED and OLED technology will continue to improve, induction lamps
while technically fluorescent, are promising and see gradually increasing
use. Phosphor mixes with excellent color rendering do exist, but are less
efficient than the 80 CRI stuff that are used for most CFLs. Ceramic metal
halide lamps are available with 90+ CRI and exceed 80 lumens per watt. Who
knows what else might be on the horizon.


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