Hi,

I'm looking for small LED assemblies, round printed circuit boards
(diameter from 1/2" to 1") with several LEDs mounted suitable for 12VDC
operation.

I want to glue these assemblies into existing car and trailer lamps for
maintenance-free 'life'..

Thanks for hints on where to find these in the US.

regards

Tor

On Feb 14, 9:41*pm, Geir Holmavatn wrote:
Hi,

I'm looking for small LED assemblies, round printed circuit boards
(diameter from 1/2" to 1") with several LEDs mounted suitable for 12VDC
operation.

I want to glue these assemblies into existing car and trailer lamps for
maintenance-free 'life'..

Thanks for hints on where to find these in the US.

regards

Tor

Why make your own when they are dirt cheap to buy ?

ebay have loads of them.

"Geir Holmavatn" wrote in message
...
Hi,

I'm looking for small LED assemblies, round printed circuit boards
(diameter from 1/2" to 1") with several LEDs mounted suitable for 12VDC
operation.

I want to glue these assemblies into existing car and trailer lamps for
maintenance-free 'life'..

Thanks for hints on where to find these in the US.

regards

Tor

LED replacement automotive bulbs that conform to regulations, already exist.
Look at, for instance

http://www.superbrightleds.com/1157.htm

Arfa

In article ,
Arfa Daily wrote:
LED replacement automotive bulbs that conform to regulations, already
exist. Look at, for instance

Are you sure there are replacement types that are approved? In Europe they
would be 'E' marked.

--


Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Arfa Daily wrote:
LED replacement automotive bulbs that conform to regulations, already
exist. Look at, for instance

Are you sure there are replacement types that are approved? In Europe they
would be 'E' marked.

--

To be honest Dave, I'm not certain. I'm sure I have seen them on websites
where they claim to match the specs for brightness etc, so I've always
assumed that any that are deliberately manufactured as 'replacements', would
similarly match. However, I accept what you say, and they might not all be.
Are the likes of Lucas or Delco or whoever making these things yet ? I guess
that would be the best guarantee of compliance. In any event, I should think
that ones made for the job, are likely to be better in terms of brightness
and viewing angle, than something that you would cobble together yourself ??

FWIW, I don't actually like the latest generation of cars that are fitted
with LED tail and brake lights. They are invariably pulse driven, and when
your eyes do a 'flick', the pulsed LEDs leave a trail of 'dots' of light
across your vision. Most off-putting when driving at night. The roadworks
cone lamps are similarly pulsed. and create the same effect.

Arfa

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

To be honest Dave, I'm not certain. I'm sure I have seen them on websites
where they claim to match the specs for brightness etc, so I've always
assumed that any that are deliberately manufactured as 'replacements',
would similarly match. However, I accept what you say, and they might not
all be. Are the likes of Lucas or Delco or whoever making these things yet
? I guess that would be the best guarantee of compliance. In any event, I
should think that ones made for the job, are likely to be better in terms
of brightness and viewing angle, than something that you would cobble
together yourself ??



There are many retrofit lamps on the market which are certainly *not* street
legal, and for obvious reason if you see them in action. I don't know if
anyone makes any that are, but I would think the technology at least exists.

I don't think there'd be a problem using retrofit lamps for things like
license plate illumination and certainly anything inside the car, but I
would hesitate to put one in any of the external marker or signal lights.

Note that the suggestions to buy LED car lamps has a caveat- the LED
lamps on Ebay used for turn signal applications do not present the
resistance in the flasher unit that an incandescent lamp does, so the
flasher will flash at double speed, like it does with a burned out lamp.
JR

Geir Holmavatn wrote:

Hi,

I'm looking for small LED assemblies, round printed circuit boards
(diameter from 1/2" to 1") with several LEDs mounted suitable for 12VDC
operation.

I want to glue these assemblies into existing car and trailer lamps for
maintenance-free 'life'..

Thanks for hints on where to find these in the US.

regards

Tor


--
--------------------------------------------------------------
Home Page: http://www.seanet.com/~jasonrnorth

"JR North" wrote in message
.. .
Note that the suggestions to buy LED car lamps has a caveat- the LED lamps
on Ebay used for turn signal applications do not present the resistance in
the flasher unit that an incandescent lamp does, so the flasher will flash
at double speed, like it does with a burned out lamp.
JR

The link that I posted was not to an eBay listing, which is not to say that
they don't sell on eBay, of course. However, they are at least 'up front'
about the differences and limitations, and the potential for things like
incorrect flasher speed, when you retrofit them. See

http://www.superbrightleds.com/carbulb-notes.htm


Arfa

In article , Arfa Daily
wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article , Arfa Daily
wrote:
LED replacement automotive bulbs that conform to regulations, already
exist. Look at, for instance

Are you sure there are replacement types that are approved? In Europe
they would be 'E' marked.

To be honest Dave, I'm not certain. I'm sure I have seen them on
websites where they claim to match the specs for brightness etc, so
I've always assumed that any that are deliberately manufactured as
'replacements', would similarly match.

Having played around with them many that claim this certainly are not.
An ordinary filament bulb gives an approximately 360 degree even light
output. The fitting includes a reflector to then direct that light where
needed. And this can be important with things like indicators (21 watt)
where you want them visible from a wide angle. Those multiple 'ordinary'
LED replacements simply don't do this.

However, I accept what you say,
and they might not all be. Are the likes of Lucas or Delco or whoever
making these things yet ?

I've yet to see any OEM replacements for tungsten. And those would have to
be E marked to be legal in the UK etc.

I guess that would be the best guarantee of
compliance. In any event, I should think that ones made for the job,
are likely to be better in terms of brightness and viewing angle, than
something that you would cobble together yourself ??

I'm not so sure. One problem seems to be incorporating both the LEDs and
drivers - either electronic or simple resistive - within a replacement
unit. If you modify things to use an external driver you give greater
versatility. Wide angle high power LEDs are available these days to match
a 21 watt tungsten.

FWIW, I don't actually like the latest generation of cars that are
fitted with LED tail and brake lights. They are invariably pulse
driven, and when your eyes do a 'flick', the pulsed LEDs leave a trail
of 'dots' of light across your vision. Most off-putting when driving at
night. The roadworks cone lamps are similarly pulsed. and create the
same effect.

Another example of fashion before practicality? Power consumption of such
things in cars ain't important and LEDs which are bright enough without
being pulse driven exist. More expensive, though.

--
*Shin: a device for finding furniture in the dark *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Another example of fashion before practicality? Power consumption of such
things in cars ain't important and LEDs which are bright enough without
being pulse driven exist. More expensive, though.



They're pulse driven to give multiple brightness levels. Low as markers,
then they get bright when the brakes are activated. It has nothing to do
with increasing the max brightness.

On Feb 15, 11:22*am, "James Sweet" wrote:
Another example of fashion before practicality? Power consumption of such
things in cars ain't important and LEDs which are bright enough without
being pulse driven exist. More expensive, though.

They're pulse driven to give multiple brightness levels. Low as markers,
then they get bright when the brakes are activated. It has nothing to do
with increasing the max brightness.

There are auto parts stores in the USA that sell "drop-in" replacement
led lamps,. Murray's auto parts is one store in the Chicago suburbs
that I know my son-in-law has purchased them from (to dangle a
preposition).

H. R.(Bob) Hofmann

There are auto parts stores in the USA that sell "drop-in" replacement
led lamps,. Murray's auto parts is one store in the Chicago suburbs
that I know my son-in-law has purchased them from (to dangle a
preposition).

Those have already been discussed here, they're not street legal. Just
because it's in a store doesn't automatically make it suitable for use.

In article , Geir Holmavatn wrote:
Hi,

I'm looking for small LED assemblies, round printed circuit boards
(diameter from 1/2" to 1") with several LEDs mounted suitable for 12VDC
operation.

I want to glue these assemblies into existing car and trailer lamps for
maintenance-free 'life'..

Thanks for hints on where to find these in the US.

regards

Tor

I bought some boards for my new deck. I have yellow lamps on some of the
posts. i put these inside some brass door pulls, look cool.
You can wire these up as you like or need. They are designed to replace those
little lamps with the two bent wires around the glass end. Many trailer lamps
use these for running lamps.

http://superbrightleds.com/hobby.htm

greg

hr(bob) wrote:
On Feb 15, 11:22 am, "James Sweet" wrote:
Another example of fashion before practicality? Power consumption of such
things in cars ain't important and LEDs which are bright enough without
being pulse driven exist. More expensive, though.
They're pulse driven to give multiple brightness levels. Low as markers,
then they get bright when the brakes are activated. It has nothing to do
with increasing the max brightness.

There are auto parts stores in the USA that sell "drop-in" replacement
led lamps,. Murray's auto parts is one store in the Chicago suburbs
that I know my son-in-law has purchased them from (to dangle a
preposition).

H. R.(Bob) Hofmann

Most of these I've seen have disclaimers on the packaging stating that
they are not DOT approved.

jak

In article ZSjtj.725$0%3.218@trnddc06,
James Sweet wrote:
They're pulse driven to give multiple brightness levels. Low as markers,
then they get bright when the brakes are activated. It has nothing to do
with increasing the max brightness.

Eh?

--
*My dog can lick anyone

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ZSjtj.725$0%3.218@trnddc06,
James Sweet wrote:
They're pulse driven to give multiple brightness levels. Low as markers,
then they get bright when the brakes are activated. It has nothing to do
with increasing the max brightness.

Eh?



What?

The lights I'm talking about are used in lieu of twin filament incandescent
lamps for tail/brake lights. These have two brightness levels, and to
achieve that with LEDs they use PWM dimming to give two levels.

"James Sweet" wrote in message
news:rqqtj.374$we5.136@trnddc02...

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ZSjtj.725$0%3.218@trnddc06,
James Sweet wrote:
They're pulse driven to give multiple brightness levels. Low as markers,
then they get bright when the brakes are activated. It has nothing to do
with increasing the max brightness.

Eh?



What?

The lights I'm talking about are used in lieu of twin filament
incandescent lamps for tail/brake lights. These have two brightness
levels, and to achieve that with LEDs they use PWM dimming to give two
levels.

I don't think that is an actual requirement though. A LED could just as
easily be dimmed by DC current reduction, although I agree, it would less
efficient in terms of wasted energy. Some time back, I did a lot of reading
on driving LEDs, and the manufacturers seem to advocate pulse drive for two
reasons. The first is that very high pulse currents can be used compared to
DC drive currents. As the light output is proportional to the current, this
means that very high level light pulses can be achieved, without hotting up
the die beyond what it can dissipate. The total result of this is a higher
average light output for a lower dissipation than would be achieved by DC
drive. The second reason is that pulse drive extends the useful 50% life of
the LEDs, by as much as 10 times. So I guess both you are right in that it
makes them easier to control, and so is Dave in that it makes them brighter
....

Arfa

In article rqqtj.374$we5.136@trnddc02,
James Sweet wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ZSjtj.725$0%3.218@trnddc06, James Sweet
wrote:
They're pulse driven to give multiple brightness levels. Low as
markers, then they get bright when the brakes are activated. It has
nothing to do with increasing the max brightness.

Eh?

What?

The lights I'm talking about are used in lieu of twin filament
incandescent lamps for tail/brake lights. These have two brightness
levels, and to achieve that with LEDs they use PWM dimming to give two
levels.

They may well but the primary reason is to increase the brightness.
Pulsing allows the continuous current rating to be exceeded. And necessary
with most common LEDs if you need to near match the output of tungsten for
brake lights etc.
To alter the brightness on an LED all you need to do is change the drive
current. Doing it via PWM is more efficient - but that really doesn't
matter with car indicator lamps.

--
*Can vegetarians eat animal crackers?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Arfa Daily" wrote in message
...

"James Sweet" wrote in message
news:rqqtj.374$we5.136@trnddc02...

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ZSjtj.725$0%3.218@trnddc06,
James Sweet wrote:
They're pulse driven to give multiple brightness levels. Low as
markers,
then they get bright when the brakes are activated. It has nothing to
do
with increasing the max brightness.

Eh?



What?

The lights I'm talking about are used in lieu of twin filament
incandescent lamps for tail/brake lights. These have two brightness
levels, and to achieve that with LEDs they use PWM dimming to give two
levels.

I don't think that is an actual requirement though. A LED could just as
easily be dimmed by DC current reduction, although I agree, it would less
efficient in terms of wasted energy. Some time back, I did a lot of
reading on driving LEDs, and the manufacturers seem to advocate pulse
drive for two reasons. The first is that very high pulse currents can be
used compared to DC drive currents. As the light output is proportional to
the current, this means that very high level light pulses can be achieved,
without hotting up the die beyond what it can dissipate. The total result
of this is a higher average light output for a lower dissipation than
would be achieved by DC drive. The second reason is that pulse drive
extends the useful 50% life of the LEDs, by as much as 10 times. So I
guess both you are right in that it makes them easier to control, and so
is Dave in that it makes them brighter ...

Arfa


All in all, I feel that pulse drive is terrible for tail lights. As someone
else stated they are irritating to the eyes. I can't stand driving behind
someone with LED taillights. They make my eyes do weird things and it is not
a plesant expirence. I already wear glasses and have some trouble seeing at
night, I don't need more trouble from tail lights that are flashing at 30hz.
No one else I know can seem to see that they are flashing, but then again I
can also tell if my monitor is set at 60 or 85hz just by looking at it. For
me the flashing stops at about 85hz.

Mike

"Michael Kennedy" wrote in message
...

"Arfa Daily" wrote in message
...

"James Sweet" wrote in message
news:rqqtj.374$we5.136@trnddc02...

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ZSjtj.725$0%3.218@trnddc06,
James Sweet wrote:
They're pulse driven to give multiple brightness levels. Low as
markers,
then they get bright when the brakes are activated. It has nothing to
do
with increasing the max brightness.

Eh?



What?

The lights I'm talking about are used in lieu of twin filament
incandescent lamps for tail/brake lights. These have two brightness
levels, and to achieve that with LEDs they use PWM dimming to give two
levels.

I don't think that is an actual requirement though. A LED could just as
easily be dimmed by DC current reduction, although I agree, it would less
efficient in terms of wasted energy. Some time back, I did a lot of
reading on driving LEDs, and the manufacturers seem to advocate pulse
drive for two reasons. The first is that very high pulse currents can be
used compared to DC drive currents. As the light output is proportional
to the current, this means that very high level light pulses can be
achieved, without hotting up the die beyond what it can dissipate. The
total result of this is a higher average light output for a lower
dissipation than would be achieved by DC drive. The second reason is that
pulse drive extends the useful 50% life of the LEDs, by as much as 10
times. So I guess both you are right in that it makes them easier to
control, and so is Dave in that it makes them brighter ...

Arfa


All in all, I feel that pulse drive is terrible for tail lights. As
someone else stated they are irritating to the eyes. I can't stand driving
behind someone with LED taillights. They make my eyes do weird things and
it is not a plesant expirence. I already wear glasses and have some
trouble seeing at night, I don't need more trouble from tail lights that
are flashing at 30hz. No one else I know can seem to see that they are
flashing, but then again I can also tell if my monitor is set at 60 or
85hz just by looking at it. For me the flashing stops at about 85hz.

Mike
It was me who said this Mike, and I know what you mean. Nobody else in my
family knows what I am talking about when I tell them that I see a trail of
light 'dots' across my vision when I look at these things wrongly. There
used to be very strict constraints on car designers about where lights could
be positioned, and how far apart and such like. Now, there seems to be no
such restrictions, and anything goes. Some brake lights, for instance, are
blinding, and there's three of 'em ! Makes you wonder if any of this
contributes to accidents ...

Arfa

Arfa Daily wrote:

snip
It was me who said this Mike, and I know what you mean. Nobody else in my
family knows what I am talking about when I tell them that I see a trail of
light 'dots' across my vision when I look at these things wrongly.

snip

That is surprising that your kin can't see it; I have always noticed it
and it is easy to gauge the rep rate simply by a quick lateral scan of
the eyeballs and then count the dots that persist in the visual field.
Same holds for antenna tower strobe lights.

Michael