My Whirlpool electric tumble dryer AWZ241 has failed. Last Friday, the
house's circuit breaker tripped when it was turned on. After
resetting the circuit breaker and trying the dryer, it did not trip
again. The dyer runs but does not get hot. I guess that the heater
and / or an internal fuse has blown.

Any other guesses of possible explanations?

Anyone know how easy this will be to fix?

I am not quite sure how old the dryer is. At least 5 years. It came
with an offer of an extended 8 year guarantee but we did not take it.
Anyway, it might be as much as 8 years old.

I have a good collection of tools (including a multimeter), access to
a reasonably good spare parts shop, good understanding of electricity,
and some experience of working of these devices. For example, I have
successfully changed the drive belt of dryers and repaired the door
switches. I have not yet had any cause to open up this one.

On Feb 4, 10:42 am, wrote:
My Whirlpool electric tumble dryer AWZ241 has failed. Last Friday, the
house's circuit breaker tripped when it was turned on. After
resetting the circuit breaker and trying the dryer, it did not trip
again. The dyer runs but does not get hot. I guess that the heater
and / or an internal fuse has blown.

Any other guesses of possible explanations?

Anyone know how easy this will be to fix?

I am not quite sure how old the dryer is. At least 5 years. It came
with an offer of an extended 8 year guarantee but we did not take it.
Anyway, it might be as much as 8 years old.

I have a good collection of tools (including a multimeter), access to
a reasonably good spare parts shop, good understanding of electricity,
and some experience of working of these devices. For example, I have
successfully changed the drive belt of dryers and repaired the door
switches. I have not yet had any cause to open up this one.

I just checked the local spares shop. They could get me a new element
in a day and it would cost £35. So, provided that is the fault and it
is not too hard to change, it seems worth doing. Now, I need to work
up the energy to take the thing apart.

writes:

On Feb 4, 10:42 am, wrote:
My Whirlpool electric tumble dryer AWZ241 has failed. Last Friday, the
house's circuit breaker tripped when it was turned on. After
resetting the circuit breaker and trying the dryer, it did not trip
again. The dyer runs but does not get hot. I guess that the heater
and / or an internal fuse has blown.

Any other guesses of possible explanations?

Anyone know how easy this will be to fix?

I am not quite sure how old the dryer is. At least 5 years. It came
with an offer of an extended 8 year guarantee but we did not take it.
Anyway, it might be as much as 8 years old.

I have a good collection of tools (including a multimeter), access to
a reasonably good spare parts shop, good understanding of electricity,
and some experience of working of these devices. For example, I have
successfully changed the drive belt of dryers and repaired the door
switches. I have not yet had any cause to open up this one.

I just checked the local spares shop. They could get me a new element
in a day and it would cost £35. So, provided that is the fault and it
is not too hard to change, it seems worth doing. Now, I need to work
up the energy to take the thing apart.

It's very likely the heating element is the problem especially if the
dryer operated normally the laser time it was used. Replacement
should be straightforward. However, it's worth checking the thermostatsm
and of course for lint buildup which can lead to overheating.

--- sam | Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/
Repair | Main Table of Contents: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/
+Lasers | Sam's Laser FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/lasersam.htm
| Mirror Sites: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/F_mirror.html

Important: Anything sent to the email address in the message header above is
ignored unless my full name AND either lasers or electronics is included in the
subject line. Or, you can contact me via the Feedback Form in the FAQs.

On Feb 4, 1:09 pm, Sam Goldwasser wrote:
writes:
On Feb 4, 10:42 am, wrote:
My Whirlpool electric tumble dryer AWZ241 has failed. Last Friday, the
house's circuit breaker tripped when it was turned on. After
resetting the circuit breaker and trying the dryer, it did not trip
again. The dyer runs but does not get hot. I guess that the heater
and / or an internal fuse has blown.

Any other guesses of possible explanations?

Anyone know how easy this will be to fix?

I am not quite sure how old the dryer is. At least 5 years. It came
with an offer of an extended 8 year guarantee but we did not take it.
Anyway, it might be as much as 8 years old.

I have a good collection of tools (including a multimeter), access to
a reasonably good spare parts shop, good understanding of electricity,
and some experience of working of these devices. For example, I have
successfully changed the drive belt of dryers and repaired the door
switches. I have not yet had any cause to open up this one.

I just checked the local spares shop. They could get me a new element
in a day and it would cost £35. So, provided that is the fault and it
is not too hard to change, it seems worth doing. Now, I need to work
up the energy to take the thing apart.

It's very likely the heating element is the problem especially if the
dryer operated normally the laser time it was used. Replacement
should be straightforward. However, it's worth checking the thermostatsm
and of course for lint buildup which can lead to overheating.

Thanks. Yes, the dryer was working apparently fine last Thursday. I
will check the thermostat as well when I have opened it up. Where
might lint build up except for the filter just inside the door? I
have already checked and cleaned this. There was little on it at the
time of failure, we clean it regularly.

--
Sean Ó Leathlobhair

wrote in message
...
On Feb 4, 1:09 pm, Sam Goldwasser wrote:
writes:
On Feb 4, 10:42 am, wrote:
My Whirlpool electric tumble dryer AWZ241 has failed. Last Friday, the
house's circuit breaker tripped when it was turned on. After
resetting the circuit breaker and trying the dryer, it did not trip
again. The dyer runs but does not get hot. I guess that the heater
and / or an internal fuse has blown.

Any other guesses of possible explanations?

Anyone know how easy this will be to fix?

I am not quite sure how old the dryer is. At least 5 years. It came
with an offer of an extended 8 year guarantee but we did not take it.
Anyway, it might be as much as 8 years old.

I have a good collection of tools (including a multimeter), access to
a reasonably good spare parts shop, good understanding of electricity,
and some experience of working of these devices. For example, I have
successfully changed the drive belt of dryers and repaired the door
switches. I have not yet had any cause to open up this one.

I just checked the local spares shop. They could get me a new element
in a day and it would cost £35. So, provided that is the fault and it
is not too hard to change, it seems worth doing. Now, I need to work
up the energy to take the thing apart.

It's very likely the heating element is the problem especially if the
dryer operated normally the laser time it was used. Replacement
should be straightforward. However, it's worth checking the thermostatsm
and of course for lint buildup which can lead to overheating.

Thanks. Yes, the dryer was working apparently fine last Thursday. I
will check the thermostat as well when I have opened it up. Where
might lint build up except for the filter just inside the door? I
have already checked and cleaned this. There was little on it at the
time of failure, we clean it regularly.



Pull the element and look at it, if it's bad, it'll be obvious.

wrote:
On Feb 4, 1:09 pm, Sam Goldwasser wrote:
writes:
On Feb 4, 10:42 am, wrote:
My Whirlpool electric tumble dryer AWZ241 has failed. Last Friday, the
house's circuit breaker tripped when it was turned on. After
resetting the circuit breaker and trying the dryer, it did not trip
again. The dyer runs but does not get hot. I guess that the heater
and / or an internal fuse has blown.
Any other guesses of possible explanations?
Anyone know how easy this will be to fix?
I am not quite sure how old the dryer is. At least 5 years. It came
with an offer of an extended 8 year guarantee but we did not take it.
Anyway, it might be as much as 8 years old.
I have a good collection of tools (including a multimeter), access to
a reasonably good spare parts shop, good understanding of electricity,
and some experience of working of these devices. For example, I have
successfully changed the drive belt of dryers and repaired the door
switches. I have not yet had any cause to open up this one.
I just checked the local spares shop. They could get me a new element
in a day and it would cost £35. So, provided that is the fault and it
is not too hard to change, it seems worth doing. Now, I need to work
up the energy to take the thing apart.
It's very likely the heating element is the problem especially if the
dryer operated normally the laser time it was used. Replacement
should be straightforward. However, it's worth checking the thermostatsm
and of course for lint buildup which can lead to overheating.

Thanks. Yes, the dryer was working apparently fine last Thursday. I
will check the thermostat as well when I have opened it up. Where
might lint build up except for the filter just inside the door? I
have already checked and cleaned this. There was little on it at the
time of failure, we clean it regularly.


Lint can build up anywhere in the airflow path...significant cause of
accidental fires. Check the entire exhaust path, both inside and
external to the dryer.

jak
--
Sean Ó Leathlobhair

On Feb 4, 6:12 pm, jakdedert wrote:
wrote:
On Feb 4, 1:09 pm, Sam Goldwasser wrote:
writes:
On Feb 4, 10:42 am, wrote:
My Whirlpool electric tumble dryer AWZ241 has failed. Last Friday, the
house's circuit breaker tripped when it was turned on. After
resetting the circuit breaker and trying the dryer, it did not trip
again. The dyer runs but does not get hot. I guess that the heater
and / or an internal fuse has blown.
Any other guesses of possible explanations?
Anyone know how easy this will be to fix?
I am not quite sure how old the dryer is. At least 5 years. It came
with an offer of an extended 8 year guarantee but we did not take it.
Anyway, it might be as much as 8 years old.
I have a good collection of tools (including a multimeter), access to
a reasonably good spare parts shop, good understanding of electricity,
and some experience of working of these devices. For example, I have
successfully changed the drive belt of dryers and repaired the door
switches. I have not yet had any cause to open up this one.
I just checked the local spares shop. They could get me a new element
in a day and it would cost £35. So, provided that is the fault and it
is not too hard to change, it seems worth doing. Now, I need to work
up the energy to take the thing apart.
It's very likely the heating element is the problem especially if the
dryer operated normally the laser time it was used. Replacement
should be straightforward. However, it's worth checking the thermostatsm
and of course for lint buildup which can lead to overheating.

Thanks. Yes, the dryer was working apparently fine last Thursday. I
will check the thermostat as well when I have opened it up. Where
might lint build up except for the filter just inside the door? I
have already checked and cleaned this. There was little on it at the
time of failure, we clean it regularly.

Lint can build up anywhere in the airflow path...significant cause of
accidental fires. Check the entire exhaust path, both inside and
external to the dryer.

jak

Thanks again.

I was busy last night and will be busy again tonight but I should be
able to take it apart Wednesday. With some luck, I will have it
working by the weekend.

--
Sean Ó Leathlobhair

On Feb 4, 5:47 pm, "James Sweet" wrote:
wrote in message

...
On Feb 4, 1:09 pm, Sam Goldwasser wrote:



writes:
On Feb 4, 10:42 am, wrote:
My Whirlpool electric tumble dryer AWZ241 has failed. Last Friday, the
house's circuit breaker tripped when it was turned on. After
resetting the circuit breaker and trying the dryer, it did not trip
again. The dyer runs but does not get hot. I guess that the heater
and / or an internal fuse has blown.

Any other guesses of possible explanations?

Anyone know how easy this will be to fix?

I am not quite sure how old the dryer is. At least 5 years. It came
with an offer of an extended 8 year guarantee but we did not take it..
Anyway, it might be as much as 8 years old.

I have a good collection of tools (including a multimeter), access to
a reasonably good spare parts shop, good understanding of electricity,
and some experience of working of these devices. For example, I have
successfully changed the drive belt of dryers and repaired the door
switches. I have not yet had any cause to open up this one.

I just checked the local spares shop. They could get me a new element
in a day and it would cost £35. So, provided that is the fault and it
is not too hard to change, it seems worth doing. Now, I need to work
up the energy to take the thing apart.

It's very likely the heating element is the problem especially if the
dryer operated normally the laser time it was used. Replacement
should be straightforward. However, it's worth checking the thermostatsm
and of course for lint buildup which can lead to overheating.
Thanks. Yes, the dryer was working apparently fine last Thursday. I
will check the thermostat as well when I have opened it up. Where
might lint build up except for the filter just inside the door? I
have already checked and cleaned this. There was little on it at the
time of failure, we clean it regularly.

Pull the element and look at it, if it's bad, it'll be obvious.

Thanks. As I said in another post, I hope to take it apart tomorrow
night. If the element is bad, I can order a new one on Thursday and
hope to have it working by the weekend.

--
Sean Ó Leathlobhair

On Feb 5, 3:29 am, wrote:
On Feb 4, 5:47 pm, "James Sweet" wrote:



wrote in message

...
On Feb 4, 1:09 pm, Sam Goldwasser wrote:

writes:
On Feb 4, 10:42 am, wrote:
My Whirlpool electric tumble dryer AWZ241 has failed. Last Friday, the
house's circuit breaker tripped when it was turned on. After
resetting the circuit breaker and trying the dryer, it did not trip
again. The dyer runs but does not get hot. I guess that the heater
and / or an internal fuse has blown.

Any other guesses of possible explanations?

Anyone know how easy this will be to fix?

I am not quite sure how old the dryer is. At least 5 years. It came
with an offer of an extended 8 year guarantee but we did not take it.
Anyway, it might be as much as 8 years old.

I have a good collection of tools (including a multimeter), access to
a reasonably good spare parts shop, good understanding of electricity,
and some experience of working of these devices. For example, I have
successfully changed the drive belt of dryers and repaired the door
switches. I have not yet had any cause to open up this one.

I just checked the local spares shop. They could get me a new element
in a day and it would cost £35. So, provided that is the fault and it
is not too hard to change, it seems worth doing. Now, I need to work
up the energy to take the thing apart.

It's very likely the heating element is the problem especially if the
dryer operated normally the laser time it was used. Replacement
should be straightforward. However, it's worth checking the thermostatsm
and of course for lint buildup which can lead to overheating.
Thanks. Yes, the dryer was working apparently fine last Thursday. I
will check the thermostat as well when I have opened it up. Where
might lint build up except for the filter just inside the door? I
have already checked and cleaned this. There was little on it at the
time of failure, we clean it regularly.

Pull the element and look at it, if it's bad, it'll be obvious.

Thanks. As I said in another post, I hope to take it apart tomorrow
night. If the element is bad, I can order a new one on Thursday and
hope to have it working by the weekend.

--
Sean Ó Leathlobhair

Something else to think about as a possible cause.

Several years ago my sisters drier stopped heating, but kept running
fine.

After several attempts at repair we found that one side of the 220
volt breaker was bad with about a 300 ohm resistance. Thus, there was
no power to the heating element, but since the control circuits and
motor ran on 120 volt that was by chance connected the the good side
of the breaker everything looked "fine"

Just one of those sneaky things that goes wrong.

If you have a voltmeter you can check the outlet to see if it is
working. But do it with the drier plugged in. That will load the
circuit and verify the breaker. If the heater is bad, you will still
measure the 220 volt value.

Dave

In article ,
Sam Goldwasser wrote:

It's very likely the heating element is the problem especially if the
dryer operated normally the laser time it was used.

Nobody but Sam would have made that typo.

"Smitty Two" wrote in message
news
In article ,
Sam Goldwasser wrote:

It's very likely the heating element is the problem especially if the
dryer operated normally the laser time it was used.

Nobody but Sam would have made that typo.

LOL and I read it and didn't even notice until you pointed it out.

On Feb 5, 5:51 pm, Dave22 wrote:
On Feb 5, 3:29 am, wrote:



On Feb 4, 5:47 pm, "James Sweet" wrote:

wrote in message

....
On Feb 4, 1:09 pm, Sam Goldwasser wrote:

writes:
On Feb 4, 10:42 am, wrote:
My Whirlpool electric tumble dryer AWZ241 has failed. Last Friday, the
house's circuit breaker tripped when it was turned on. After
resetting the circuit breaker and trying the dryer, it did not trip
again. The dyer runs but does not get hot. I guess that the heater
and / or an internal fuse has blown.

Any other guesses of possible explanations?

Anyone know how easy this will be to fix?

I am not quite sure how old the dryer is. At least 5 years. It came
with an offer of an extended 8 year guarantee but we did not take it.
Anyway, it might be as much as 8 years old.

I have a good collection of tools (including a multimeter), access to
a reasonably good spare parts shop, good understanding of electricity,
and some experience of working of these devices. For example, I have
successfully changed the drive belt of dryers and repaired the door
switches. I have not yet had any cause to open up this one.

I just checked the local spares shop. They could get me a new element
in a day and it would cost £35. So, provided that is the fault and it
is not too hard to change, it seems worth doing. Now, I need to work
up the energy to take the thing apart.

It's very likely the heating element is the problem especially if the
dryer operated normally the laser time it was used. Replacement
should be straightforward. However, it's worth checking the thermostatsm
and of course for lint buildup which can lead to overheating.
Thanks. Yes, the dryer was working apparently fine last Thursday. I
will check the thermostat as well when I have opened it up. Where
might lint build up except for the filter just inside the door? I
have already checked and cleaned this. There was little on it at the
time of failure, we clean it regularly.

Pull the element and look at it, if it's bad, it'll be obvious.

Thanks. As I said in another post, I hope to take it apart tomorrow
night. If the element is bad, I can order a new one on Thursday and
hope to have it working by the weekend.

--
Sean Ó Leathlobhair

Something else to think about as a possible cause.

Several years ago my sisters drier stopped heating, but kept running
fine.

After several attempts at repair we found that one side of the 220
volt breaker was bad with about a 300 ohm resistance. Thus, there was
no power to the heating element, but since the control circuits and
motor ran on 120 volt that was by chance connected the the good side
of the breaker everything looked "fine"

Just one of those sneaky things that goes wrong.

If you have a voltmeter you can check the outlet to see if it is
working. But do it with the drier plugged in. That will load the
circuit and verify the breaker. If the heater is bad, you will still
measure the 220 volt value.

Dave

Thanks. That is a worthwhile check.

I am in the UK where things are a little different. The supply is
230V (*) only. I expect that both the motor and the heater run
directly from it. Of course, a similar problem of this sort could
still be the explanation.

I should manage the test and survive. As a kid, I repaired old valve
TVs with live chassis. They rectified the 240VAC (*) supply and hence
ran at 340VDC. You would get a nasty shock if you were not very
careful.

(*) Not a mistake, the UK standard used to be 240V. Most of the rest
of Europe was 220V and we compromised on 230V. I think that the
tolerance of the new standard was large enough that nothing really
needed to change.

--
Sean Ó Leathlobhair

"Smitty Two" wrote in message
news
In article ,
Sam Goldwasser wrote:

It's very likely the heating element is the problem especially
if the dryer operated normally the laser time it was used.

Nobody but Sam would have made that typo.

Lots of people make such mistakes. When I look at my own "typos", I
sometimes want to lie on Dr. Freud's couch.

This are not, strictly speaking, typos. As people get older, they're more
likely to type the wrong word. I don't know why this is.

Seán O'Leathlóbhair wrote:


I am in the UK where things are a little different. The supply is
230V (*) only. I expect that both the motor and the heater run
directly from it. Of course, a similar problem of this sort could
still be the explanation.

I should manage the test and survive. As a kid, I repaired old valve
TVs with live chassis. They rectified the 240VAC (*) supply and hence
ran at 340VDC. You would get a nasty shock if you were not very
careful.

(*) Not a mistake, the UK standard used to be 240V. Most of the rest
of Europe was 220V and we compromised on 230V. I think that the
tolerance of the new standard was large enough that nothing really
needed to change.


Indeed, you`ll find that most places in the UK still get a healthy 240
volts.
Ron(UK)

"William Sommerwerck" writes:

"Smitty Two" wrote in message
news
In article ,
Sam Goldwasser wrote:

It's very likely the heating element is the problem especially
if the dryer operated normally the laser time it was used.

Nobody but Sam would have made that typo.

Lots of people make such mistakes. When I look at my own "typos", I
sometimes want to lie on Dr. Freud's couch.

This are not, strictly speaking, typos. As people get older, they're more
likely to type the wrong word. I don't know why this is.

HeHeHe... With me, the word "laser" is generated by a single nerve impulse
and the fingers do the rest.

--- sam | Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/
Repair | Main Table of Contents: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/
+Lasers | Sam's Laser FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/lasersam.htm
| Mirror Sites: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/F_mirror.html

Important: Anything sent to the email address in the message header above is
ignored unless my full name AND either lasers or electronics is included in the
subject line. Or, you can contact me via the Feedback Form in the FAQs.

In article ,
Sam Goldwasser wrote:

"William Sommerwerck" writes:

"Smitty Two" wrote in message
news
In article ,
Sam Goldwasser wrote:

It's very likely the heating element is the problem especially
if the dryer operated normally the laser time it was used.

Nobody but Sam would have made that typo.

Lots of people make such mistakes. When I look at my own "typos", I
sometimes want to lie on Dr. Freud's couch.

This are not, strictly speaking, typos. As people get older, they're more
likely to type the wrong word. I don't know why this is.

HeHeHe... With me, the word "laser" is generated by a single nerve impulse
and the fingers do the rest.

'zactly. William hasn't been around here long enough to have figured
that out. Do other people make mistakes? Sure. But *that* one is
distinctly you.

"Sam Goldwasser" wrote in message
...
"William Sommerwerck" writes:

"Smitty Two" wrote in message
news
In article ,
Sam Goldwasser wrote:

It's very likely the heating element is the problem especially
if the dryer operated normally the laser time it was used.

Nobody but Sam would have made that typo.

Lots of people make such mistakes. When I look at my own "typos", I
sometimes want to lie on Dr. Freud's couch.

This are not, strictly speaking, typos. As people get older, they're more
likely to type the wrong word. I don't know why this is.

HeHeHe... With me, the word "laser" is generated by a single nerve impulse
and the fingers do the rest.


Reminds me of one of my biggest pet peeves, when people spell it "lazer",
UHG, I don't even know why it bothers me so much, it just looks stupid.

"Ron(UK)" wrote in message
...
Seán O'Leathlóbhair wrote:


I am in the UK where things are a little different. The supply is
230V (*) only. I expect that both the motor and the heater run
directly from it. Of course, a similar problem of this sort could
still be the explanation.

I should manage the test and survive. As a kid, I repaired old valve
TVs with live chassis. They rectified the 240VAC (*) supply and hence
ran at 340VDC. You would get a nasty shock if you were not very
careful.

(*) Not a mistake, the UK standard used to be 240V. Most of the rest
of Europe was 220V and we compromised on 230V. I think that the
tolerance of the new standard was large enough that nothing really
needed to change.


Indeed, you`ll find that most places in the UK still get a healthy 240
volts.
Ron(UK)


A friend of mine in Manchester monitored his line voltage for a few days. It
dropped as low as 223 and went as high as 249, I dunno what the allowable
range is but that struck me as quite a wide variation.

"James Sweet" wrote in
message news:uimqj.13760$FW3.386@trndny03...

Reminds me of one of my biggest pet peeves, when people
spell it "lazer", UHG, I don't even know why it bothers me so
much, it just looks stupid.

And that's the way most people pronounce it -- with a Z sound, rather than
S. It's "laser", not "lazer".

James Sweet wrote:
"Ron(UK)" wrote in message
...
Seán O'Leathlóbhair wrote:

I am in the UK where things are a little different. The supply is
230V (*) only. I expect that both the motor and the heater run
directly from it. Of course, a similar problem of this sort could
still be the explanation.

I should manage the test and survive. As a kid, I repaired old valve
TVs with live chassis. They rectified the 240VAC (*) supply and hence
ran at 340VDC. You would get a nasty shock if you were not very
careful.

(*) Not a mistake, the UK standard used to be 240V. Most of the rest
of Europe was 220V and we compromised on 230V. I think that the
tolerance of the new standard was large enough that nothing really
needed to change.

Indeed, you`ll find that most places in the UK still get a healthy 240
volts.
Ron(UK)


A friend of mine in Manchester monitored his line voltage for a few days. It
dropped as low as 223 and went as high as 249, I dunno what the allowable
range is but that struck me as quite a wide variation.


It`s 245 at the moment here, according to a fluke 77. slightly lower
according to a nondescript chinese 'yellow' cheapy

Ron(UK)


--
Lune Valley Audio
Public Address Systems
Hire Sales Maintenance
www.lunevalleyaudio.com

"William Sommerwerck" wrote in
:

"James Sweet" wrote in
message news:uimqj.13760$FW3.386@trndny03...

Reminds me of one of my biggest pet peeves, when people
spell it "lazer", UHG, I don't even know why it bothers me so
much, it just looks stupid.

And that's the way most people pronounce it -- with a Z sound, rather
than S. It's "laser", not "lazer".

Perhaps because "Light Amplification by the Ztimulated Emission of
Radiation" does not make much sense.


--
bz 73 de N5BZ k

please pardon my infinite ignorance, the set-of-things-I-do-not-know is an
infinite set.

remove ch100-5 to avoid spam trap

On Feb 5, 11:27 am, wrote:
On Feb 4, 6:12 pm, jakdedert wrote:



wrote:
On Feb 4, 1:09 pm, Sam Goldwasser wrote:
writes:
On Feb 4, 10:42 am, wrote:
My Whirlpool electric tumble dryer AWZ241 has failed. Last Friday, the
house's circuit breaker tripped when it was turned on. After
resetting the circuit breaker and trying the dryer, it did not trip
again. The dyer runs but does not get hot. I guess that the heater
and / or an internal fuse has blown.
Any other guesses of possible explanations?
Anyone know how easy this will be to fix?
I am not quite sure how old the dryer is. At least 5 years. It came
with an offer of an extended 8 year guarantee but we did not take it.

"Seán O'Leathlóbhair" wrote in message
...
On Feb 5, 11:27 am, wrote:
On Feb 4, 6:12 pm, jakdedert wrote:



wrote:
On Feb 4, 1:09 pm, Sam Goldwasser wrote:
writes:
On Feb 4, 10:42 am, wrote:
My Whirlpool electric tumble dryer AWZ241 has failed. Last Friday,
the
house's circuit breaker tripped when it was turned on. After
resetting the circuit breaker and trying the dryer, it did not trip
again. The dyer runs but does not get hot. I guess that the
heater
and / or an internal fuse has blown.
Any other guesses of possible explanations?
Anyone know how easy this will be to fix?
I am not quite sure how old the dryer is. At least 5 years. It
came
with an offer of an extended 8 year guarantee but we did not take
it.
Anyway, it might be as much as 8 years old.
I have a good collection of tools (including a multimeter), access
to
a reasonably good spare parts shop, good understanding of
electricity,
and some experience of working of these devices. For example, I
have
successfully changed the drive belt of dryers and repaired the door
switches. I have not yet had any cause to open up this one.
I just checked the local spares shop. They could get me a new
element
in a day and it would cost £35. So, provided that is the fault and
it
is not too hard to change, it seems worth doing. Now, I need to
work
up the energy to take the thing apart.
It's very likely the heating element is the problem especially if the
dryer operated normally the laser time it was used. Replacement
should be straightforward. However, it's worth checking the
thermostatsm
and of course for lint buildup which can lead to overheating.

Thanks. Yes, the dryer was working apparently fine last Thursday. I
will check the thermostat as well when I have opened it up. Where
might lint build up except for the filter just inside the door? I
have already checked and cleaned this. There was little on it at the
time of failure, we clean it regularly.

Lint can build up anywhere in the airflow path...significant cause of
accidental fires. Check the entire exhaust path, both inside and
external to the dryer.

jak

Thanks again.

I was busy last night and will be busy again tonight but I should be
able to take it apart Wednesday. With some luck, I will have it
working by the weekend.

Took it apart tonight. It was easier than I expected. Unfortunately,
the next step, the diagnosis, was harder than I expected. So, a bit
of humble pie; I though that understanding the electrics would be the
easy bit.

Three wires: black, red, and brown come from the controller to the
element. The red and black go to little devices which might be
thermal cut-outs mounted on the side of the element. If they are cut-
outs then it is a puzzle that they are in both lines. The outputs
from these devices go the element itself. The brown goes directly to
the same element terminal as the red indirectly goes. What's going
here, is the brown a feedback to the controller so that it knows
whether the cut-out is passing current? But, if the other one failed
it wouldn't know.

Now the real puzzle. I don't know the power of the element but I
would guess at least 1kW and at most 3kW. So (at 240V), the
resistance should be a dozen or so ohms. However my meter thinks the
resistance is infinite even on the 20MOhm setting. So, this would
suggest the element is dead. However, the meter cannot detect any
voltage between any pair of the red, black, and brown wires. Surely
there are not two simultaneous faults: the element dying and something
wrong in the controller? A final explanation is that the controller
runs the motor for some time before sending power to the element. Is
this likely? I ran the dyer for about a minute with the meter
connected to the red and black wires.

--
Sean Ó Leathlobhair

The (little devices) are thermal cutouts, they are usually for different
temps being for low and high and have different temp ratings printed on
them, if you only have 1 drying temp 1 could be a safety cutout, if you have
the 2 temp there is a safety thermo somewhere else in the circuit. also
quite often there is a switch in the motor that controls the power to the
heater element which may fail at times, they are used so that the heater
won't operate if the motor/fan isn't working ( another safety feature). Also
when you tested for power at the element was the timer set at the "Cool
down" position where the motor/fan will operate without the heater to allow
the clothes to cool down to avoid wrinkling. Having such a high resistance
in the element indicates the element is faulty tho.
Good luck and leave a message if you still have problems.
(semi retired appliance tech)

"Only Just" ifixit2@hotmail(dot)com writes:

"Seán O'Leathlóbhair" wrote in message
...
On Feb 5, 11:27 am, wrote:
On Feb 4, 6:12 pm, jakdedert wrote:



wrote:
On Feb 4, 1:09 pm, Sam Goldwasser wrote:
writes:
On Feb 4, 10:42 am, wrote:
My Whirlpool electric tumble dryer AWZ241 has failed. Last Friday,
the
house's circuit breaker tripped when it was turned on. After
resetting the circuit breaker and trying the dryer, it did not trip
again. The dyer runs but does not get hot. I guess that the
heater
and / or an internal fuse has blown.
Any other guesses of possible explanations?
Anyone know how easy this will be to fix?
I am not quite sure how old the dryer is. At least 5 years. It
came
with an offer of an extended 8 year guarantee but we did not take
it.
Anyway, it might be as much as 8 years old.
I have a good collection of tools (including a multimeter), access
to
a reasonably good spare parts shop, good understanding of
electricity,
and some experience of working of these devices. For example, I
have
successfully changed the drive belt of dryers and repaired the door
switches. I have not yet had any cause to open up this one.
I just checked the local spares shop. They could get me a new
element
in a day and it would cost £35. So, provided that is the fault and
it
is not too hard to change, it seems worth doing. Now, I need to
work
up the energy to take the thing apart.
It's very likely the heating element is the problem especially if the
dryer operated normally the laser time it was used. Replacement
should be straightforward. However, it's worth checking the
thermostatsm
and of course for lint buildup which can lead to overheating.

Thanks. Yes, the dryer was working apparently fine last Thursday. I
will check the thermostat as well when I have opened it up. Where
might lint build up except for the filter just inside the door? I
have already checked and cleaned this. There was little on it at the
time of failure, we clean it regularly.

Lint can build up anywhere in the airflow path...significant cause of
accidental fires. Check the entire exhaust path, both inside and
external to the dryer.

jak

Thanks again.

I was busy last night and will be busy again tonight but I should be
able to take it apart Wednesday. With some luck, I will have it
working by the weekend.

Took it apart tonight. It was easier than I expected. Unfortunately,
the next step, the diagnosis, was harder than I expected. So, a bit
of humble pie; I though that understanding the electrics would be the
easy bit.

Three wires: black, red, and brown come from the controller to the
element. The red and black go to little devices which might be
thermal cut-outs mounted on the side of the element. If they are cut-
outs then it is a puzzle that they are in both lines. The outputs
from these devices go the element itself. The brown goes directly to
the same element terminal as the red indirectly goes. What's going
here, is the brown a feedback to the controller so that it knows
whether the cut-out is passing current? But, if the other one failed
it wouldn't know.

Now the real puzzle. I don't know the power of the element but I
would guess at least 1kW and at most 3kW. So (at 240V), the
resistance should be a dozen or so ohms. However my meter thinks the
resistance is infinite even on the 20MOhm setting. So, this would
suggest the element is dead. However, the meter cannot detect any
voltage between any pair of the red, black, and brown wires. Surely
there are not two simultaneous faults: the element dying and something
wrong in the controller? A final explanation is that the controller
runs the motor for some time before sending power to the element. Is
this likely? I ran the dyer for about a minute with the meter
connected to the red and black wires.

--
Sean Ó Leathlobhair

The (little devices) are thermal cutouts, they are usually for different
temps being for low and high and have different temp ratings printed on
them, if you only have 1 drying temp 1 could be a safety cutout, if you have
the 2 temp there is a safety thermo somewhere else in the circuit. also
quite often there is a switch in the motor that controls the power to the
heater element which may fail at times, they are used so that the heater
won't operate if the motor/fan isn't working ( another safety feature). Also
when you tested for power at the element was the timer set at the "Cool
down" position where the motor/fan will operate without the heater to allow
the clothes to cool down to avoid wrinkling. Having such a high resistance
in the element indicates the element is faulty tho.
Good luck and leave a message if you still have problems.
(semi retired appliance tech)

What's the element look like? A long coiled wire or is it sealed?
If it's just a coil, the failure should be obvious.

--- sam | Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/
Repair | Main Table of Contents: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/
+Lasers | Sam's Laser FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/lasersam.htm
| Mirror Sites: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/F_mirror.html

Important: Anything sent to the email address in the message header above is
ignored unless my full name AND either lasers or electronics is included in the
subject line. Or, you can contact me via the Feedback Form in the FAQs.

In article
,
"Seán O'Leathlóbhair" wrote:

Surely
there are not two simultaneous faults: the element dying and something
wrong in the controller?

I'd be suspect of the test results. The slightest corrosion on a test
lead or the DUT can cause gross errors.

On Feb 7, 12:25 am, Sam Goldwasser wrote:
"Only Just" ifixit2@hotmail(dot)com writes:
"Seán O'Leathlóbhair" wrote in message
...
On Feb 5, 11:27 am, wrote:
On Feb 4, 6:12 pm, jakdedert wrote:

wrote:
On Feb 4, 1:09 pm, Sam Goldwasser wrote:
writes:
On Feb 4, 10:42 am, wrote:
My Whirlpool electric tumble dryer AWZ241 has failed. Last Friday,
the
house's circuit breaker tripped when it was turned on. After
resetting the circuit breaker and trying the dryer, it did not trip
again. The dyer runs but does not get hot. I guess that the
heater
and / or an internal fuse has blown.
Any other guesses of possible explanations?
Anyone know how easy this will be to fix?
I am not quite sure how old the dryer is. At least 5 years. It
came
with an offer of an extended 8 year guarantee but we did not take
it.
Anyway, it might be as much as 8 years old.
I have a good collection of tools (including a multimeter), access
to
a reasonably good spare parts shop, good understanding of
electricity,
and some experience of working of these devices. For example, I
have
successfully changed the drive belt of dryers and repaired the door
switches. I have not yet had any cause to open up this one.
I just checked the local spares shop. They could get me a new
element
in a day and it would cost £35. So, provided that is the fault and
it
is not too hard to change, it seems worth doing. Now, I need to
work
up the energy to take the thing apart.
It's very likely the heating element is the problem especially if the
dryer operated normally the laser time it was used. Replacement
should be straightforward. However, it's worth checking the
thermostatsm
and of course for lint buildup which can lead to overheating.

Thanks. Yes, the dryer was working apparently fine last Thursday. I
will check the thermostat as well when I have opened it up. Where
might lint build up except for the filter just inside the door? I
have already checked and cleaned this. There was little on it at the
time of failure, we clean it regularly.

Lint can build up anywhere in the airflow path...significant cause of
accidental fires. Check the entire exhaust path, both inside and
external to the dryer.

jak

Thanks again.

I was busy last night and will be busy again tonight but I should be
able to take it apart Wednesday. With some luck, I will have it
working by the weekend.

Took it apart tonight. It was easier than I expected. Unfortunately,
the next step, the diagnosis, was harder than I expected. So, a bit
of humble pie; I though that understanding the electrics would be the
easy bit.

Three wires: black, red, and brown come from the controller to the
element. The red and black go to little devices which might be
thermal cut-outs mounted on the side of the element. If they are cut-
outs then it is a puzzle that they are in both lines. The outputs
from these devices go the element itself. The brown goes directly to
the same element terminal as the red indirectly goes. What's going
here, is the brown a feedback to the controller so that it knows
whether the cut-out is passing current? But, if the other one failed
it wouldn't know.

Now the real puzzle. I don't know the power of the element but I
would guess at least 1kW and at most 3kW. So (at 240V), the
resistance should be a dozen or so ohms. However my meter thinks the
resistance is infinite even on the 20MOhm setting. So, this would
suggest the element is dead. However, the meter cannot detect any
voltage between any pair of the red, black, and brown wires. Surely
there are not two simultaneous faults: the element dying and something
wrong in the controller? A final explanation is that the controller
runs the motor for some time before sending power to the element. Is
this likely? I ran the dyer for about a minute with the meter
connected to the red and black wires.

--
Sean Ó Leathlobhair

The (little devices) are thermal cutouts, they are usually for different
temps being for low and high and have different temp ratings printed on
them, if you only have 1 drying temp 1 could be a safety cutout, if you have
the 2 temp there is a safety thermo somewhere else in the circuit. also
quite often there is a switch in the motor that controls the power to the
heater element which may fail at times, they are used so that the heater
won't operate if the motor/fan isn't working ( another safety feature). Also
when you tested for power at the element was the timer set at the "Cool
down" position where the motor/fan will operate without the heater to allow
the clothes to cool down to avoid wrinkling. Having such a high resistance
in the element indicates the element is faulty tho.
Good luck and leave a message if you still have problems.
(semi retired appliance tech)

Thanks. I didn't see your reply directly, only as quoted by Sam.

The little devices have what may be part numbers but not obvious
temperature ratings. They both have a resistance of zero (as fas the
meter can tell).

We tried the voltage test on a variety of settings. We started new
programs so it should not have been in cool down mode. Do you know if
the controller may delay the power to the heater until the motor has
been running for some time? Or might it be clever enough to notice a
problem and cut the power? The purpose of the brown wire still
puzzles me, it seems to be some sort of feedback to the controller so
it can detect that one of the cut-outs has blown.

A faulty motor sensor makes some sense in the circumstances but it
could be hard to trace without a schematic diagram. Would it be an
integral part of the motor?

What's the element look like? A long coiled wire or is it sealed?
If it's just a coil, the failure should be obvious.

Thanks.

Unfortunately, it is sealed in a casing and it is not easy to see the
element directly. I may be able to open the casing for a look but not
necessarily in a non destructive fashion. It is held together with
rivet like devices.

Another test would be to hook the element directly to the mains and
see if it started to get hot. Unless my meter has gone completely
mad, or it is not a simple resistive device, it would seem that it
won't.

So now, the tricky question is whether to buy a new element for £35
without being sure that it will fix the problem. On the other hand,
it would probably cost at least that much to call out a professional
just to look at it.

--
Sean Ó Leathlobhair

On Feb 7, 2:28 am, Smitty Two wrote:
In article
,
"Seán O'Leathlóbhair" wrote:

Surely
there are not two simultaneous faults: the element dying and something
wrong in the controller?

I'd be suspect of the test results. The slightest corrosion on a test
lead or the DUT can cause gross errors.

Thanks.

A possibility of course but touching the meter leads together reads a
fraction of an Ohm or zero if pressed firmly together. It also r
reads zero when I check the cut-outs. It is a fairly cheap (not dirt
cheap) digital multi-meter and I doubt that it is very accurate but I
don't expect that it will mistake 0 and infinity.

The terminals of the heater element seem nice and clean. So clean
that I did not think of cleaning them up but I will do that to be
sure.

--
Sean Ó Leathlobhair

Seán O'Leathlóbhair wrote:

On Feb 7, 2:28 am, Smitty Two wrote:
In article
,
"Seán O'Leathlóbhair" wrote:

Surely
there are not two simultaneous faults: the element dying and
something wrong in the controller?

I'd be suspect of the test results. The slightest corrosion on a test
lead or the DUT can cause gross errors.

Thanks.

A possibility of course but touching the meter leads together reads a
fraction of an Ohm or zero if pressed firmly together. It also r
reads zero when I check the cut-outs. It is a fairly cheap (not dirt
cheap) digital multi-meter and I doubt that it is very accurate but I
don't expect that it will mistake 0 and infinity.

The terminals of the heater element seem nice and clean. So clean
that I did not think of cleaning them up but I will do that to be
sure.

--
Sean Ó Leathlobhair

Open circuit heating elements are very common. Disconnect any wires at
the ends of the element and check its continuity. Should read about 20
Ohms. If it does then the fault is probably elsewhere.
--
Regards:
Baron.

On Feb 7, 11:19 am, Baron wrote:
Seán O'Leathlóbhair wrote:
On Feb 7, 2:28 am, Smitty Two wrote:
In article
,
"Seán O'Leathlóbhair" wrote:

Surely
there are not two simultaneous faults: the element dying and
something wrong in the controller?

I'd be suspect of the test results. The slightest corrosion on a test
lead or the DUT can cause gross errors.

Thanks.

A possibility of course but touching the meter leads together reads a
fraction of an Ohm or zero if pressed firmly together. It also r
reads zero when I check the cut-outs. It is a fairly cheap (not dirt
cheap) digital multi-meter and I doubt that it is very accurate but I
don't expect that it will mistake 0 and infinity.

The terminals of the heater element seem nice and clean. So clean
that I did not think of cleaning them up but I will do that to be
sure.

--
Sean Ó Leathlobhair

Open circuit heating elements are very common. Disconnect any wires at
the ends of the element and check its continuity. Should read about 20
Ohms. If it does then the fault is probably elsewhere.

Thanks. That is the test that I have done and the meter insists that
the resistance is infinity even on the 20MOhm setting. So, this does
seem to say that the element is dead. The puzzle is that the
controller does not seem to be supplying any voltage to the element
suggesting a second fault.

I think that I try to open up the element's casing, it may be
destructive but I don't have a lot to lose. If it is obviously dead
then I will have to hope that there is not a second fault and buy a
new one.

--
Sean Ó Leathlobhair

"Seán O'Leathlóbhair" wrote in message
...
On Feb 7, 12:25 am, Sam Goldwasser wrote:
"Only Just" ifixit2@hotmail(dot)com writes:
"Seán O'Leathlóbhair" wrote in message
...
On Feb 5, 11:27 am, wrote:
On Feb 4, 6:12 pm, jakdedert wrote:

wrote:
On Feb 4, 1:09 pm, Sam Goldwasser
wrote:
writes:
On Feb 4, 10:42 am, wrote:
My Whirlpool electric tumble dryer AWZ241 has failed. Last
Friday,
the
house's circuit breaker tripped when it was turned on. After
resetting the circuit breaker and trying the dryer, it did not
trip
again. The dyer runs but does not get hot. I guess that the
heater
and / or an internal fuse has blown.
Any other guesses of possible explanations?
Anyone know how easy this will be to fix?
I am not quite sure how old the dryer is. At least 5 years.
It
came
with an offer of an extended 8 year guarantee but we did not
take
it.
Anyway, it might be as much as 8 years old.
I have a good collection of tools (including a multimeter),
access
to
a reasonably good spare parts shop, good understanding of
electricity,
and some experience of working of these devices. For example,
I
have
successfully changed the drive belt of dryers and repaired the
door
switches. I have not yet had any cause to open up this one.
I just checked the local spares shop. They could get me a new
element
in a day and it would cost £35. So, provided that is the fault
and
it
is not too hard to change, it seems worth doing. Now, I need to
work
up the energy to take the thing apart.
It's very likely the heating element is the problem especially if
the
dryer operated normally the laser time it was used. Replacement
should be straightforward. However, it's worth checking the
thermostatsm
and of course for lint buildup which can lead to overheating.

Thanks. Yes, the dryer was working apparently fine last Thursday.
I
will check the thermostat as well when I have opened it up. Where
might lint build up except for the filter just inside the door? I
have already checked and cleaned this. There was little on it at
the
time of failure, we clean it regularly.

Lint can build up anywhere in the airflow path...significant cause
of
accidental fires. Check the entire exhaust path, both inside and
external to the dryer.

jak

Thanks again.

I was busy last night and will be busy again tonight but I should be
able to take it apart Wednesday. With some luck, I will have it
working by the weekend.

Took it apart tonight. It was easier than I expected. Unfortunately,
the next step, the diagnosis, was harder than I expected. So, a bit
of humble pie; I though that understanding the electrics would be the
easy bit.

Three wires: black, red, and brown come from the controller to the
element. The red and black go to little devices which might be
thermal cut-outs mounted on the side of the element. If they are cut-
outs then it is a puzzle that they are in both lines. The outputs
from these devices go the element itself. The brown goes directly to
the same element terminal as the red indirectly goes. What's going
here, is the brown a feedback to the controller so that it knows
whether the cut-out is passing current? But, if the other one failed
it wouldn't know.

Now the real puzzle. I don't know the power of the element but I
would guess at least 1kW and at most 3kW. So (at 240V), the
resistance should be a dozen or so ohms. However my meter thinks the
resistance is infinite even on the 20MOhm setting. So, this would
suggest the element is dead. However, the meter cannot detect any
voltage between any pair of the red, black, and brown wires. Surely
there are not two simultaneous faults: the element dying and something
wrong in the controller? A final explanation is that the controller
runs the motor for some time before sending power to the element. Is
this likely? I ran the dyer for about a minute with the meter
connected to the red and black wires.

--
Sean Ó Leathlobhair

The (little devices) are thermal cutouts, they are usually for different
temps being for low and high and have different temp ratings printed on
them, if you only have 1 drying temp 1 could be a safety cutout, if you
have
the 2 temp there is a safety thermo somewhere else in the circuit. also
quite often there is a switch in the motor that controls the power to
the
heater element which may fail at times, they are used so that the heater
won't operate if the motor/fan isn't working ( another safety feature).
Also
when you tested for power at the element was the timer set at the "Cool
down" position where the motor/fan will operate without the heater to
allow
the clothes to cool down to avoid wrinkling. Having such a high
resistance
in the element indicates the element is faulty tho.
Good luck and leave a message if you still have problems.
(semi retired appliance tech)

Thanks. I didn't see your reply directly, only as quoted by Sam.

The little devices have what may be part numbers but not obvious
temperature ratings. They both have a resistance of zero (as fas the
meter can tell).

We tried the voltage test on a variety of settings. We started new
programs so it should not have been in cool down mode. Do you know if
the controller may delay the power to the heater until the motor has
been running for some time? Or might it be clever enough to notice a
problem and cut the power? The purpose of the brown wire still
puzzles me, it seems to be some sort of feedback to the controller so
it can detect that one of the cut-outs has blown.

A faulty motor sensor makes some sense in the circumstances but it
could be hard to trace without a schematic diagram. Would it be an
integral part of the motor?

What's the element look like? A long coiled wire or is it sealed?
If it's just a coil, the failure should be obvious.

Thanks.

Unfortunately, it is sealed in a casing and it is not easy to see the
element directly. I may be able to open the casing for a look but not
necessarily in a non destructive fashion. It is held together with
rivet like devices.

Another test would be to hook the element directly to the mains and
see if it started to get hot. Unless my meter has gone completely
mad, or it is not a simple resistive device, it would seem that it
won't.

So now, the tricky question is whether to buy a new element for £35
without being sure that it will fix the problem. On the other hand,
it would probably cost at least that much to call out a professional
just to look at it.

--
Sean Ó Leathlobhair

Be careful if you try to power up the heater outside of the dryer as the
outer metal sheath can become live as they often short internally to the
outer sheath as earth.
Look carefully on the inside of the dryer too as sometimes there is a
schematic glued to 1 of the covers, The switch in the motor that operates
the heater etc is usually a mechanical weighted thro-out switch that
operates when the motor reaches a reasonable speed, it can often be seen
inside the end of the motor housing and can be dismantled and repaired. If
dismantling the motor mark the housings well as to relocate them back
EXACTLY as they were.
Hope this all helps anyway.

On 7 Feb, 11:33, "Only Just" ifixit2@hotmail(dot)com wrote:
"Seán O'Leathlóbhair" wrote in message

...
On Feb 7, 12:25 am, Sam Goldwasser wrote:





"Only Just" ifixit2@hotmail(dot)com writes:
"Seán O'Leathlóbhair" wrote in message
....
On Feb 5, 11:27 am, wrote:
On Feb 4, 6:12 pm, jakdedert wrote:

wrote:
On Feb 4, 1:09 pm, Sam Goldwasser
wrote:
writes:
On Feb 4, 10:42 am, wrote:
My Whirlpool electric tumble dryer AWZ241 has failed. Last
Friday,
the
house's circuit breaker tripped when it was turned on. *After
resetting the circuit breaker and trying the dryer, it did not
trip
again. *The dyer runs but does not get hot. *I guess that the
heater
and / or an internal fuse has blown.
Any other guesses of possible explanations?
Anyone know how easy this will be to fix?
I am not quite sure how old the dryer is. *At least 5 years..
It
came
with an offer of an extended 8 year guarantee but we did not
take
it.
Anyway, it *might be as much as 8 years old.
I have a good collection of tools (including a multimeter),
access
to
a reasonably good spare parts shop, good understanding of
electricity,
and some experience of working of these devices. *For example,
I
have
successfully changed the drive belt of dryers and repaired the
door
switches. *I have not yet had any cause to open up this one..
I just checked the local spares shop. *They could get me a new
element
in a day and it would cost £35. *So, provided that is the fault
and
it
is not too hard to change, it seems worth doing. *Now, I need to
work
up the energy to take the thing apart.
It's very likely the heating element is the problem especially if
the
dryer operated normally the laser time it was used. *Replacement
should be straightforward. *However, it's worth checking the
thermostatsm
and of course for lint buildup which can lead to overheating.

Thanks. *Yes, the dryer was working apparently fine last Thursday.
I
will check the thermostat as well when I have opened it up. *Where
might lint build up except for the filter just inside the door? *I
have already checked and cleaned this. *There was little on it at
the
time of failure, we clean it regularly.

Lint can build up anywhere in the airflow path...significant cause
of
accidental fires. *Check the entire exhaust path, both inside and
external to the dryer.

jak

Thanks again.

I was busy last night and will be busy again tonight but I should be
able to take it apart Wednesday. *With some luck, I will have it
working by the weekend.

Took it apart tonight. *It was easier than I expected. *Unfortunately,
the next step, the diagnosis, was harder than I expected. *So, a bit
of humble pie; I though that understanding the electrics would be the
easy bit.

Three wires: black, red, and brown come from the controller to the
element. *The red and black go to little devices which might be
thermal cut-outs mounted on the side of the element. *If they are cut-
outs then it is a puzzle that they are in both lines. *The outputs
from these devices go the element itself. *The brown goes directly to
the same element terminal as the red indirectly goes. *What's going
here, is the brown a feedback to the controller so that it knows
whether the cut-out is passing current? *But, if the other one failed
it wouldn't know.

Now the real puzzle. *I don't know the power of the element but I
would guess at least 1kW and at most 3kW. *So (at 240V), the
resistance should be a dozen or so ohms. *However my meter thinks the
resistance is infinite even on the 20MOhm setting. So, this would
suggest the element is dead. *However, the meter cannot detect any
voltage between any pair of the red, black, and brown wires. *Surely
there are not two simultaneous faults: the element dying and something
wrong in the controller? *A final explanation is that the controller
runs the motor for some time before sending power to the element. *Is
this likely? *I ran the dyer for about a minute with the meter
connected to the red and black wires.

--
Sean Ó Leathlobhair

The (little devices) are thermal cutouts, they are usually for different
temps being for low and high and have different temp ratings printed on
them, if you only have 1 drying temp 1 could be a safety cutout, if you
have
the 2 temp there is a safety thermo somewhere else in the circuit. also
quite often there is a switch in the motor that controls the power to
the
heater element which may fail at times, they are used so that the heater
won't operate if the motor/fan isn't working ( another safety feature)..
Also
when you tested for power at the element was the timer set at the "Cool
down" position where the motor/fan will operate without the heater to
allow
the clothes to cool down to avoid wrinkling. Having such a high
resistance
in the element indicates the element is faulty tho.
Good luck and leave a message if you still have problems.
(semi retired appliance tech)

Thanks. *I didn't see your reply directly, only as quoted by Sam.

The little devices have what may be part numbers but not obvious
temperature ratings. *They both have a resistance of zero (as fas the
meter can tell).

We tried the voltage test on a variety of settings. *We started new
programs so it should not have been in cool down mode. *Do you know if
the controller may delay the power to the heater until the motor has
been running for some time? *Or might it be clever enough to notice a
problem and cut the power? *The purpose of the brown wire still
puzzles me, it seems to be some sort of feedback to the controller so
it can detect that one of the cut-outs has blown.

A faulty motor sensor makes some sense in the circumstances but it
could be hard to trace without a schematic diagram. *Would it be an
integral part of the motor?

What's the element look like? *A long coiled wire or is it sealed?
If it's just a coil, the failure should be obvious.

Thanks.

Unfortunately, it is sealed in a casing and it is not easy to see the
element directly. *I may be able to open the casing for a look but not
necessarily in a non destructive fashion. *It is held together with
rivet like devices.

Another test would be to hook the element directly to the mains and
see if it started to get hot. *Unless my meter has gone completely
mad, or it is not a simple resistive device, it would seem that it
won't.

So now, the tricky question is whether to buy a new element for £35
without being sure that it will fix the problem. *On the other hand,
it would probably cost at least that much to call out a professional
just to look at it.

--
Sean Ó Leathlobhair

Be careful if you try to power up the heater outside of the dryer as the
outer metal sheath can become live as they often short internally to the
outer sheath as earth.
Look carefully on the inside of the dryer too as sometimes there is a
schematic glued to 1 of the covers, The switch in the motor that operates
the heater etc is usually a mechanical weighted thro-out switch that
operates when the motor reaches a reasonable speed, it can often be seen
inside the end of the motor housing and can be dismantled and repaired. If
dismantling the motor mark the housings well as to relocate them back
EXACTLY as they were.
Hope this all helps anyway.

Thanks for the tip. I don't expect that the element has shorted to
its casing since the casing was earthed and the chassis was not live
and no fuse or trip blew. However, it does not hurt to be careful and
I won't touch the device while it is powered.

Thanks for reminding me to look for a schematic inside the casing. I
have not noticed one but I have not looked thoroughly. I had forgoten
that was a possibility.

Dismantling the motor is moving further out of my comfort zone but if
it gets to the stage that the whole machine may be scrapped then I
will have a go on the nothing to lose principle. It would be a shame
to dump the machine since it is not very old and looks to be generally
in good condition.

--
Sean Ó Leathlobhair

Seán O'Leathlóbhair wrote:

On Feb 7, 11:19 am, Baron wrote:

Open circuit heating elements are very common. Disconnect any wires
at the ends of the element and check its continuity. Should read
about 20 Ohms. If it does then the fault is probably elsewhere.

Thanks. That is the test that I have done and the meter insists that
the resistance is infinity even on the 20MOhm setting. So, this does
seem to say that the element is dead. The puzzle is that the
controller does not seem to be supplying any voltage to the element
suggesting a second fault.

Since you have confirmed the the heater is O/c, a simple test is to
connect an ordinary light bulb in place of the heater. If you have
another circuit fault it will be obvious because the bulb will fail to
light.

I think that I try to open up the element's casing, it may be
destructive but I don't have a lot to lose. If it is obviously dead
then I will have to hope that there is not a second fault and buy a
new one.

--
Sean Ó Leathlobhair

--
Regards:
Baron.

Baron wrote:

Seán O'Leathlóbhair wrote:

On Feb 7, 11:19 am, Baron
wrote:

Open circuit heating elements are very common. Disconnect any wires
at the ends of the element and check its continuity. Should read
about 20 Ohms. If it does then the fault is probably elsewhere.

Thanks. That is the test that I have done and the meter insists that
the resistance is infinity even on the 20MOhm setting. So, this does
seem to say that the element is dead. The puzzle is that the
controller does not seem to be supplying any voltage to the element
suggesting a second fault.

Since you have confirmed the the heater is O/c, a simple test is to
connect an ordinary light bulb in place of the heater. If you have
another circuit fault it will be obvious because the bulb will fail to
light.

I think that I try to open up the element's casing, it may be
destructive but I don't have a lot to lose. If it is obviously dead
then I will have to hope that there is not a second fault and buy a
new one.

Sorry missed this bit. Don't try to remove the steel outer jacket, its
full of an unpleasant white powder.

By the way where in the UK are you ?


--
Regards:
Baron.

On 7 Feb, 11:58, Baron wrote:
Baron wrote:
Seán O'Leathlóbhair wrote:

On Feb 7, 11:19 am, Baron
wrote:

Open circuit heating elements are very common. *Disconnect any wires
at the ends of the element and check its continuity. *Should read
about 20 Ohms. *If it does then the fault is probably elsewhere.

Thanks. *That is the test that I have done and the meter insists that
the resistance is infinity even on the 20MOhm setting. So, this does
seem to say that the element is dead. *The puzzle is that the
controller does not seem to be supplying any voltage to the element
suggesting a second fault.

Since you have confirmed the the heater is O/c, a simple test is to
connect an ordinary light bulb in place of the heater. *If you have
another circuit fault it will be obvious because the bulb will fail to
light.

That's an idea. But if it can light the bulb then the meter should
have detected the voltage. However, it would probably be easier to
run a longer test using a bulb than the meter.

I think that I try to open up the element's casing, it may be
destructive but I don't have a lot to lose. *If it is obviously dead
then I will have to hope that there is not a second fault and buy a
new one.

Sorry missed this bit. *Don't try to remove the steel outer jacket, its
full of an unpleasant white powder.

Thanks for that.

By the way where in the UK are you ?

Midlands, a bit south of Birmingham.

--
Sean Ó Leathlobhair

Seán O'Leathlóbhair wrote:

On 7 Feb, 11:58, Baron wrote:
Baron wrote:
Seán O'Leathlóbhair wrote:

On Feb 7, 11:19 am, Baron
wrote:

Open circuit heating elements are very common. Â*Disconnect any
wires at the ends of the element and check its continuity.
Should read about 20 Ohms. Â*If it does then the fault is probably
elsewhere.

Thanks. Â*That is the test that I have done and the meter insists
that the resistance is infinity even on the 20MOhm setting. So,
this does seem to say that the element is dead. Â*The puzzle is
that the controller does not seem to be supplying any voltage to
the element suggesting a second fault.

Since you have confirmed the the heater is O/c, a simple test is to
connect an ordinary light bulb in place of the heater. Â*If you have
another circuit fault it will be obvious because the bulb will fail
to light.

That's an idea. But if it can light the bulb then the meter should
have detected the voltage. However, it would probably be easier to
run a longer test using a bulb than the meter.

Very often a meter can mislead you !

By the way where in the UK are you ?

Midlands, a bit south of Birmingham.
I'm 100/120 miles north of you near York. Daughter live in Brum though.

Anyway back to the plot. :-) I don't know that particular machine, but
I agree with another poster that said there may be a safety circuit
connected with the motor. I have never seen one though !

Commonly the motor will have three wires feeding it. One of them should
be earth. That one will be connected to the case of the motor and
indeed to the cabinet of the whole machine and in turn to the big pin
on the mains plug.

So lets check where the power is going. Use your meter on the
continuity setting and connect the black meter lead to the right hand
pin on the mains plug. Trace the neutral/blue wire into the terminal
box where it enters the machine. You should get continuity to that
point.

Tell me what you find.
--
Regards:
Baron.

In article
,
"Seán O'Leathlóbhair" wrote:

On Feb 7, 2:28 am, Smitty Two wrote:
In article
,
"Seán O'Leathlóbhair" wrote:

Surely
there are not two simultaneous faults: the element dying and something
wrong in the controller?

I'd be suspect of the test results. The slightest corrosion on a test
lead or the DUT can cause gross errors.

Thanks.

A possibility of course but touching the meter leads together reads a
fraction of an Ohm or zero if pressed firmly together. It also r
reads zero when I check the cut-outs. It is a fairly cheap (not dirt
cheap) digital multi-meter and I doubt that it is very accurate but I
don't expect that it will mistake 0 and infinity.

The terminals of the heater element seem nice and clean. So clean
that I did not think of cleaning them up but I will do that to be
sure.

--
Sean Ó Leathlobhair

Mistaking zero and infinity is a common meter problem, due to corrosion
as I suggested. If the meter probes are clean, what about the
connections on the machine? You're looking at a heating circuit; heating
tends to oxidize metals. Did you scrape them with an x-acto or similar?
The only reason I'm being a pest about this is that I agree with you
that it doesn't seem reasonable in this case that you have double
trouble. I'd also run a cheater cord from the wall to the heater element
as a verification test.

On Feb 7, 10:54 am, Smitty Two wrote:
In article
,
"Seán O'Leathlóbhair" wrote:



On Feb 7, 2:28 am, Smitty Two wrote:
In article
,
"Seán O'Leathlóbhair" wrote:

Surely
there are not two simultaneous faults: the element dying and something
wrong in the controller?

I'd be suspect of the test results. The slightest corrosion on a test
lead or the DUT can cause gross errors.

Thanks.

A possibility of course but touching the meter leads together reads a
fraction of an Ohm or zero if pressed firmly together. It also r
reads zero when I check the cut-outs. It is a fairly cheap (not dirt
cheap) digital multi-meter and I doubt that it is very accurate but I
don't expect that it will mistake 0 and infinity.

The terminals of the heater element seem nice and clean. So clean
that I did not think of cleaning them up but I will do that to be
sure.

--
Sean Ó Leathlobhair

Mistaking zero and infinity is a common meter problem, due to corrosion
as I suggested. If the meter probes are clean, what about the
connections on the machine? You're looking at a heating circuit; heating
tends to oxidize metals. Did you scrape them with an x-acto or similar?
The only reason I'm being a pest about this is that I agree with you
that it doesn't seem reasonable in this case that you have double
trouble. I'd also run a cheater cord from the wall to the heater element
as a verification test.

Also double-check the voltage scale on the meter by probing
the mains directly. Reconfirm the reading at the element
terminals once you're convinced the meter is working correctly.
Try the lightbulb test as well - perhaps the controller has a
current sensing feature that shuts down the voltage if the
element is open or one side shorted to earth (for the latter,
that would explain why there's no breaker trip).

TM

On 7 Feb, 18:05, wrote:
On Feb 7, 10:54 am, Smitty Two wrote:





In article
,
*"Seán O'Leathlóbhair" wrote:

On Feb 7, 2:28 am, Smitty Two wrote:
In article
,
*"Seán O'Leathlóbhair" wrote:

Surely
there are not two simultaneous faults: the element dying and something
wrong in the controller?

I'd be suspect of the test results. The slightest corrosion on a test
lead or the DUT can cause gross errors.

Thanks.

A possibility of course but touching the meter leads together reads a
fraction of an Ohm or zero if pressed firmly together. *It also r
reads zero when I check the cut-outs. *It is a fairly cheap (not dirt
cheap) digital multi-meter and I doubt that it is very accurate but I
don't expect that it will mistake 0 and infinity.

The terminals of the heater element seem nice and clean. *So clean
that I did not think of cleaning them up but I will do that to be
sure.

--
Sean Ó Leathlobhair

Mistaking zero and infinity is a common meter problem, due to corrosion
as I suggested. If the meter probes are clean, what about the
connections on the machine? You're looking at a heating circuit; heating
tends to oxidize metals. Did you scrape them with an x-acto or similar?
The only reason I'm being a pest about this is that I agree with you
that it doesn't seem reasonable in this case that you have double
trouble. I'd also run a cheater cord from the wall to the heater element
as a verification test.

Also double-check the voltage scale on the meter by probing
the mains directly. *Reconfirm the reading at the element
terminals once you're convinced the meter is working correctly.
Try the lightbulb test as well - perhaps the controller has a
current sensing feature that shuts down the voltage if the
element is open or one side shorted to earth (for the latter,
that would explain why there's no breaker trip).

Good ideas. In resistance mode, the meter seems to be working but I
will take some of the others' suggestions about cleaning the contacts
just in case. I have not used it to measure large AC voltages for a
while so a fault is possible. If the controller has a current sensor
then I wonder if a bulb will draw enough to trigger it.

I am not sure if I will get time to work on it tonight so there may be
no more news for a couple of days.

--
Sean Ó Leathlobhair

On Feb 7, 6:20 pm, "Seán O'Leathlóbhair" wrote:
On 7 Feb, 18:05, wrote:



On Feb 7, 10:54 am, Smitty Two wrote:

In article
,
"Seán O'Leathlóbhair" wrote:

On Feb 7, 2:28 am, Smitty Two wrote:
In article
,
"Seán O'Leathlóbhair" wrote:

Surely
there are not two simultaneous faults: the element dying and something
wrong in the controller?

I'd be suspect of the test results. The slightest corrosion on a test
lead or the DUT can cause gross errors.

Thanks.

A possibility of course but touching the meter leads together reads a
fraction of an Ohm or zero if pressed firmly together. It also r
reads zero when I check the cut-outs. It is a fairly cheap (not dirt
cheap) digital multi-meter and I doubt that it is very accurate but I
don't expect that it will mistake 0 and infinity.

The terminals of the heater element seem nice and clean. So clean
that I did not think of cleaning them up but I will do that to be
sure.

--
Sean Ó Leathlobhair

Mistaking zero and infinity is a common meter problem, due to corrosion
as I suggested. If the meter probes are clean, what about the
connections on the machine? You're looking at a heating circuit; heating
tends to oxidize metals. Did you scrape them with an x-acto or similar?
The only reason I'm being a pest about this is that I agree with you
that it doesn't seem reasonable in this case that you have double
trouble. I'd also run a cheater cord from the wall to the heater element
as a verification test.

Also double-check the voltage scale on the meter by probing
the mains directly. Reconfirm the reading at the element
terminals once you're convinced the meter is working correctly.
Try the lightbulb test as well - perhaps the controller has a
current sensing feature that shuts down the voltage if the
element is open or one side shorted to earth (for the latter,
that would explain why there's no breaker trip).

Good ideas. In resistance mode, the meter seems to be working but I
will take some of the others' suggestions about cleaning the contacts
just in case. I have not used it to measure large AC voltages for a
while so a fault is possible. If the controller has a current sensor
then I wonder if a bulb will draw enough to trigger it.

I am not sure if I will get time to work on it tonight so there may be
no more news for a couple of days.

As expected no time for the job on Thursday night. Friday night, I
just could not consider the job, it would probably not be safe while
drinking. Due to another problem, we have not TV at the moment but we
managed a nice game of cards which goes well with drinking.

Saturday morning, I attacked the job again with a range of tests as
suggested. The first test was to strap a 240V bulb over the heater
contacts and run the machine. It came on but after a delay. I guess
that there is some sort of motor sensor (I did not get as far as
looking at that) and the controller is waiting for confirmation that
the drum is turning before supplying power. So, my meter test may
have failed because I was not patient enough (I did wait a bit in case
of such a delay) or there is yet another test and it does not supply
power to an open circuit.

So, together with the infinite resistance of the heater (terminals
have been cleaned and the meter checked with some other loads), there
is not much doubt of the problem now and I will be ordering a new
heater element.

I will post later when I have the element and hopefully the dryer is
working again. Thanks everyone for your help.

--
Sean Ó Leathlobhair

Seán O'Leathlóbhair wrote:

On Feb 7, 6:20 pm, "Seán O'Leathlóbhair" wrote:
On 7 Feb, 18:05, wrote:



On Feb 7, 10:54 am, Smitty Two wrote:

In article

,
"Seán O'Leathlóbhair" wrote:

On Feb 7, 2:28 am, Smitty Two wrote:
In article

,
"Seán O'Leathlóbhair" wrote:

Surely
there are not two simultaneous faults: the element dying
and something wrong in the controller?

I'd be suspect of the test results. The slightest corrosion
on a test lead or the DUT can cause gross errors.

Thanks.

A possibility of course but touching the meter leads together
reads a
fraction of an Ohm or zero if pressed firmly together. It also
r
reads zero when I check the cut-outs. It is a fairly cheap
(not dirt cheap) digital multi-meter and I doubt that it is
very accurate but I don't expect that it will mistake 0 and
infinity.

The terminals of the heater element seem nice and clean. So
clean that I did not think of cleaning them up but I will do
that to be sure.

--
Sean Ó Leathlobhair

Mistaking zero and infinity is a common meter problem, due to
corrosion as I suggested. If the meter probes are clean, what
about the connections on the machine? You're looking at a heating
circuit; heating tends to oxidize metals. Did you scrape them
with an x-acto or similar? The only reason I'm being a pest about
this is that I agree with you that it doesn't seem reasonable in
this case that you have double trouble. I'd also run a cheater
cord from the wall to the heater element as a verification test.

Also double-check the voltage scale on the meter by probing
the mains directly. Reconfirm the reading at the element
terminals once you're convinced the meter is working correctly.
Try the lightbulb test as well - perhaps the controller has a
current sensing feature that shuts down the voltage if the
element is open or one side shorted to earth (for the latter,
that would explain why there's no breaker trip).

Good ideas. In resistance mode, the meter seems to be working but I
will take some of the others' suggestions about cleaning the contacts
just in case. I have not used it to measure large AC voltages for a
while so a fault is possible. If the controller has a current sensor
then I wonder if a bulb will draw enough to trigger it.

I am not sure if I will get time to work on it tonight so there may
be no more news for a couple of days.

As expected no time for the job on Thursday night. Friday night, I
just could not consider the job, it would probably not be safe while
drinking. Due to another problem, we have not TV at the moment but we
managed a nice game of cards which goes well with drinking.

Saturday morning, I attacked the job again with a range of tests as
suggested. The first test was to strap a 240V bulb over the heater
contacts and run the machine. It came on but after a delay. I guess
that there is some sort of motor sensor (I did not get as far as
looking at that) and the controller is waiting for confirmation that
the drum is turning before supplying power. So, my meter test may
have failed because I was not patient enough (I did wait a bit in case
of such a delay) or there is yet another test and it does not supply
power to an open circuit.

So, together with the infinite resistance of the heater (terminals
have been cleaned and the meter checked with some other loads), there
is not much doubt of the problem now and I will be ordering a new
heater element.

I will post later when I have the element and hopefully the dryer is
working again. Thanks everyone for your help.

--
Sean Ó Leathlobhair

According to a colleague there is a thermal device in the door
mechanism!

--
Best Regards:
Baron.