On 2/11/08 12:21 PM, in article
, "James Beck"
wrote:

In article ,
says...
On 2/11/08 7:32 AM, in article
, "James Beck"
wrote:

In article ,
says...
On 2/8/08 2:11 PM, in article
, "James Beck"
wrote:

In article ,
says...
"James Beck" wrote in message
th.net...
In article ,
says...
Leonard Caillouet" wrote in
message ...

The Bill of Rights explicitly protects all rights NOT specified in
it.
(Read it.) The right to organize to advance one's POV, agenda, etc,
is a right essential to any democracy.

Have read it many, many times.

Then you obviously haven't been paying attention.

The BOR explicitly states that non-enumerated rights -- states' and
individual -- are not disparaged. The BOR protects rights -- it does
not
enumerate or proscribe them.

The right to form associations -- political or otherwise -- is a right
that
is inherent in democracy, and essential to it.

And please learn to spell coercive.


Ah, the spelling correction.
You can tell a person is grasping at straws when they have to point out
some little spelling error. The BOR still doesn't give you or any group
the right to blackmail a company.

I don't see forcing an non-human entity to behave in a "moral" fashion as
blackmail.


And I guess somehow the union is now the moral compass of the world. If
the company is so immoral, quit and start a more moral company. I guess
it comes down to, if you really think blackmail is moral just because
YOU like the end result, you are the immoral one.

Jim

Who is being blackmailed and specifically how? Or is this just more mud
slinging?

You don't understand the term?

I understand the term, but obviously you don't or you would be able to
specify the item the union threatened to "tell about."


Just to top it off, it appears that the union thugs in NYC have been
shaking down construction companies for illegal kick backs. Yep, real
moral giants there.

So what were the construction companies doing that opened them up to being
"blackmailed" (your term, not mine)? Sounds like two rotten organizations.
Yeah, wanting to do business in the city, that sure sounds bad to me.
So, those great moral union/mob boys needed to take a little of the
profit, off the books, to straighten things out for the workers.
You are such a union stooge it isn't even funny.

Jim

You still can't answer my specific questions about YOUR posts, so maybe you
should just quit.

You allude to many things and don't have a whit of facts to support them.

You don't even appear to know the meaning of blackmail.

In article ,
says...
On 2/11/08 12:21 PM, in article
, "James Beck"
wrote:

In article ,
says...
On 2/11/08 7:32 AM, in article
, "James Beck"
wrote:

In article ,
says...
On 2/8/08 2:11 PM, in article
, "James Beck"
wrote:

In article ,
says...
"James Beck" wrote in message
th.net...
In article ,
says...
Leonard Caillouet" wrote in
message ...

The Bill of Rights explicitly protects all rights NOT specified in
it.
(Read it.) The right to organize to advance one's POV, agenda, etc,
is a right essential to any democracy.

Have read it many, many times.

Then you obviously haven't been paying attention.

The BOR explicitly states that non-enumerated rights -- states' and
individual -- are not disparaged. The BOR protects rights -- it does
not
enumerate or proscribe them.

The right to form associations -- political or otherwise -- is a right
that
is inherent in democracy, and essential to it.

And please learn to spell coercive.


Ah, the spelling correction.
You can tell a person is grasping at straws when they have to point out
some little spelling error. The BOR still doesn't give you or any group
the right to blackmail a company.

I don't see forcing an non-human entity to behave in a "moral" fashion as
blackmail.


And I guess somehow the union is now the moral compass of the world. If
the company is so immoral, quit and start a more moral company. I guess
it comes down to, if you really think blackmail is moral just because
YOU like the end result, you are the immoral one.

Jim

Who is being blackmailed and specifically how? Or is this just more mud
slinging?

You don't understand the term?

I understand the term, but obviously you don't or you would be able to
specify the item the union threatened to "tell about."


Just to top it off, it appears that the union thugs in NYC have been
shaking down construction companies for illegal kick backs. Yep, real
moral giants there.

So what were the construction companies doing that opened them up to being
"blackmailed" (your term, not mine)? Sounds like two rotten organizations.
Yeah, wanting to do business in the city, that sure sounds bad to me.
So, those great moral union/mob boys needed to take a little of the
profit, off the books, to straighten things out for the workers.
You are such a union stooge it isn't even funny.

Jim

You still can't answer my specific questions about YOUR posts, so maybe you
should just quit.

You allude to many things and don't have a whit of facts to support them.

You don't even appear to know the meaning of blackmail.


Do you prefer the word extort or extortion?
What ever, you can pull out that Popeil pocket hair splitter you got for
Christmas all you want. It doesn't change the facts.

Jim

"James Beck" wrote in message
th.net...
In article ,
says...
"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
...
William Sommerwerck wrote:

Speaking of steel mills... Do you remember the tax break American steel
companies got back in the '70s? Do you remember what they did with it?

When was this? I spent part of the '70s in the US Army.

It was during the Carter administration. The steel industry got one-time
tax
breaks, so it could upgrade its facilities to remain competitive.
Instead,
the steel companies used the money to buy other companies that were doing
well, so they could give their stockholders a better return.

In other words, the steel companies viewed themselves as being in
business
to make profits for their stockholders, rather than to manufacture and
sell
steel.

No, they bought companies that had already invested in better
technology, rather than doing upgrades to older plants. The idea was to
make the company profitable and able to financially maneuver faster. It
worked, the US steel industry is a $75 billion dollar a year industry
and those companies are still employing people. If you don't like how
they manage their money start your own steel company and do it better.
THAT is the American way, whining isn't.

That is absolutely not correct. They bought businesses that had nothing
whatever to do with steel manufacture, and failed to upgrade their
infrastructure.

On 2/11/08 1:41 PM, in article
, "James Beck"
wrote:

In article ,
says...
On 2/11/08 12:21 PM, in article
, "James Beck"
wrote:

In article ,
says...
On 2/11/08 7:32 AM, in article
, "James Beck"
wrote:

In article ,
says...
On 2/8/08 2:11 PM, in article
, "James Beck"
wrote:

In article ,
says...
"James Beck" wrote in message
th.net...
In article ,
says...
Leonard Caillouet" wrote in
message ...

The Bill of Rights explicitly protects all rights NOT specified in
it.
(Read it.) The right to organize to advance one's POV, agenda, etc,
is a right essential to any democracy.

Have read it many, many times.

Then you obviously haven't been paying attention.

The BOR explicitly states that non-enumerated rights -- states' and
individual -- are not disparaged. The BOR protects rights -- it does
not
enumerate or proscribe them.

The right to form associations -- political or otherwise -- is a
right
that
is inherent in democracy, and essential to it.

And please learn to spell coercive.


Ah, the spelling correction.
You can tell a person is grasping at straws when they have to point
out
some little spelling error. The BOR still doesn't give you or any
group
the right to blackmail a company.

I don't see forcing an non-human entity to behave in a "moral" fashion
as
blackmail.


And I guess somehow the union is now the moral compass of the world. If
the company is so immoral, quit and start a more moral company. I guess
it comes down to, if you really think blackmail is moral just because
YOU like the end result, you are the immoral one.

Jim

Who is being blackmailed and specifically how? Or is this just more mud
slinging?

You don't understand the term?

I understand the term, but obviously you don't or you would be able to
specify the item the union threatened to "tell about."


Just to top it off, it appears that the union thugs in NYC have been
shaking down construction companies for illegal kick backs. Yep, real
moral giants there.

So what were the construction companies doing that opened them up to being
"blackmailed" (your term, not mine)? Sounds like two rotten organizations.
Yeah, wanting to do business in the city, that sure sounds bad to me.
So, those great moral union/mob boys needed to take a little of the
profit, off the books, to straighten things out for the workers.
You are such a union stooge it isn't even funny.

Jim

You still can't answer my specific questions about YOUR posts, so maybe you
should just quit.

You allude to many things and don't have a whit of facts to support them.

You don't even appear to know the meaning of blackmail.


Do you prefer the word extort or extortion?
What ever, you can pull out that Popeil pocket hair splitter you got for
Christmas all you want. It doesn't change the facts.

Jim

Of course it does. Facts are facts. What you have is speculation or
something. Since you are unable to be specific, for all I know you may just
be casting about for nasties because you don't like and don't understand,
unions.

William Sommerwerck wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
...
William Sommerwerck wrote:

Speaking of steel mills... Do you remember the tax break American steel
companies got back in the '70s? Do you remember what they did with it?

When was this? I spent part of the '70s in the US Army.

It was during the Carter administration. The steel industry got one-time tax
breaks, so it could upgrade its facilities to remain competitive. Instead,
the steel companies used the money to buy other companies that were doing
well, so they could give their stockholders a better return.

In other words, the steel companies viewed themselves as being in business
to make profits for their stockholders, rather than to manufacture and sell
steel.


Armco spent wads of money to maintain the Middletown plants, and
managed to exceed the design specs for online time between rebuilds.
Also, it was around that time they started to develop the technology to
manufacture graphite composite materials to add new products to their
metal building division, as well as to sell to their regular Steel
customers. They developed a lot of custom steels over the years,
including the special stainless used by Aeronca to make the original
honeycomb steel heat shield for the early space program. The other was
the aluminized stainless they developed for catalytic converters. Their
corporate research center was in Middletown, and the old mill was used
to make specialty steels, while the newer, automated mill made steel for
the big three auto makers, and most of the white goods manufacturers.
They had a huge slag pit where a subsidiary dumped the cargo from a
steady steam of slag haulers and train cars from the Hamilton, Ohio
plant. The slag was used to build road beds all over SW Ohio.

They also had coke plants, to convert coal to coke. They recovered as
much unburnt gas as they could, and burnt it in the blast furnaces. and
used so much liquid oxygen that the supplier had to build a new oxygen
reduction plant. It was assembled in large sections in England, shipped
to the Mississippi, where it was transferred to barges and hauled to the
Ohio river, and finally to a dock in Delhi TOwnship, just outside of
Cincinnati. The sections were put on a 40 axle, 4000 HP crawler with a
top speed of 5 MPH. it took days to move it to Middletown. A lot of
cable TV, telephone and power lines had to be temporarily raised, or
disconnected for the crawlers to pass.

They wanted to update their other plants to the level of automation
of the Middletown plant, but the union didn't want it to happen.


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida