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Electronics Repair (sci.electronics.repair) Discussion of repairing electronic equipment. Topics include requests for assistance, where to obtain servicing information and parts, techniques for diagnosis and repair, and annecdotes about success, failures and problems. |
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#41
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why 60-40 solder?
In article ,
mark krawczuk wrote: and thats crap , i work in a company that uses exclusively 60-40 solder and we ship weekly 3500 pcbs a week to the eu . where u get your info ? Read this:- http://www.intel.com/cd/network/connectivity/emea/eng/276569.htm?cid=emea:ggl|lad_emea_eng_rohs|k5E8C|s -- *Time is fun when you're having flies... Kermit Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#42
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why 60-40 solder?
On Mon, 18 Feb 2008 07:35:15 GMT, "Arfa Daily"
wrote: all "mike" wrote in message news:MiI8j.79$TZ4.1@trnddc02... wrote: why is 63-37 eutectic solder not universally preferred? Because you can't sell it in the EU if it's got lead in it. "mark krawczuk" wrote in message ... huh ???? that solder has 37 % lead in it.!!!! and thats crap , i work in a company that uses exclusively 60-40 solder and we ship weekly 3500 pcbs a week to the eu . where u get your info ? When the EU find out, how you get out of jail ? Actually the importer is on the hook, not the manufacturer... But, there are exceptions to the rule, I'm sure he fits one of them. |
#43
Posted to sci.electronics.components,sci.electronics.repair
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why 60-40 solder?
On Mon, 18 Feb 2008 14:48:09 +1030, "mark krawczuk"
wrote: huh ???? that solder has 37 % lead in it.!!!! and thats crap , i work in a company that uses exclusively 60-40 solder and we ship weekly 3500 pcbs a week to the eu . where u get your info ? all "mike" wrote in message news:MiI8j.79$TZ4.1@trnddc02... wrote: why is 63-37 eutectic solder not universally preferred? Because you can't sell it in the EU if it's got lead in it. It is illegal to produce boards with lead, just check the internet on RoHS. It is allowed in military applications and some medical devices as reliability is lower. Regards, Pieter |
#44
Posted to sci.electronics.components,sci.electronics.repair
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why 60-40 solder?
In article ,
Pieter wrote: On Mon, 18 Feb 2008 14:48:09 +1030, "mark krawczuk" wrote: huh ???? that solder has 37 % lead in it.!!!! and thats crap , i work in a company that uses exclusively 60-40 solder and we ship weekly 3500 pcbs a week to the eu . where u get your info ? all "mike" wrote in message news:MiI8j.79$TZ4.1@trnddc02... wrote: why is 63-37 eutectic solder not universally preferred? Because you can't sell it in the EU if it's got lead in it. It is illegal to produce boards with lead, just check the internet on RoHS. It is allowed in military applications and some medical devices as reliability is lower. Regards, Pieter Let's be clear that the United States has less stringent regulations. AIUI, commercial (as opposed to consumer) boards for sale in the U.S. may still use leaded solder. As far as Mark's belated entry into this old thread, I assume he's trolling. |
#45
Posted to sci.electronics.components,sci.electronics.repair
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why 60-40 solder?
In message , Pieter
writes It is illegal to produce boards with lead, just check the internet on RoHS. It is allowed in military applications and some medical devices as reliability is lower. I think it's perfectly legal to rework boards using lead/tin solder if the boards were originally produced with it and because of that you can still buy led/tin rosin fluxed solder. Regards, Pieter -- Clint Sharp |
#46
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why 60-40 solder?
"Smitty Two" wrote in message news In article , Pieter wrote: On Mon, 18 Feb 2008 14:48:09 +1030, "mark krawczuk" wrote: huh ???? that solder has 37 % lead in it.!!!! and thats crap , i work in a company that uses exclusively 60-40 solder and we ship weekly 3500 pcbs a week to the eu . where u get your info ? all "mike" wrote in message news:MiI8j.79$TZ4.1@trnddc02... wrote: why is 63-37 eutectic solder not universally preferred? Because you can't sell it in the EU if it's got lead in it. It is illegal to produce boards with lead, just check the internet on RoHS. It is allowed in military applications and some medical devices as reliability is lower. Regards, Pieter Let's be clear that the United States has less stringent regulations. AIUI, commercial (as opposed to consumer) boards for sale in the U.S. may still use leaded solder. As far as Mark's belated entry into this old thread, I assume he's trolling. Hmm.. I didn't realize that there were any regulations on leaded solder here in the USA. I just thought we got consumer grade crap that was manufactured for sale in the EU that happens to be ROHS compliant. Mike |
#47
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why 60-40 solder?
Michael Kennedy wrote:
"Smitty Two" wrote... Let's be clear that the United States has less stringent regulations. AIUI, commercial (as opposed to consumer) boards for sale in the U.S. may still use leaded solder. Hmm.. I didn't realize that there were any regulations on leaded solder here in the USA. I just thought we got consumer grade crap that was manufactured for sale in the EU that happens to be ROHS compliant. Ditto. I'd love to know about any laws banning leaded solder in the USA so I can get a jump on starting my new multimillion-dollar recycled home- electronics business. -- B. Hussein Obama won't wear an American flag on his lapel, or put his hand over his heart during the national anthem, but prominently displayed in his Houston campaign office are TWO Cuban flags, each with a picture of Che Guevara superimposed on it. |
#48
Posted to sci.electronics.components,sci.electronics.repair
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why 60-40 solder?
In article ,
clifto wrote: Michael Kennedy wrote: "Smitty Two" wrote... Let's be clear that the United States has less stringent regulations. AIUI, commercial (as opposed to consumer) boards for sale in the U.S. may still use leaded solder. Hmm.. I didn't realize that there were any regulations on leaded solder here in the USA. I just thought we got consumer grade crap that was manufactured for sale in the EU that happens to be ROHS compliant. Ditto. I'd love to know about any laws banning leaded solder in the USA so I can get a jump on starting my new multimillion-dollar recycled home- electronics business. ah-so. Apparently my confusion on this issue hasn't worn off yet. *Somewhere* I thought I heard that consumer grade electronics had to be RoHS compliant, but it might have been a dream... I do know that California has some RoHS restrictions. I also know that several of our customers who market globally require us to comply with EU RoHS assembly standards so that they can market worldwide without trying to keep track of which unit has lead and which one doesn't. So it's likely that even stuff manufactured in the U.S., for sale in the U.S., has the feared lead-free solder in it. |
#49
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why 60-40 solder?
"Smitty Two" wrote in message news In article , clifto wrote: Michael Kennedy wrote: "Smitty Two" wrote... Let's be clear that the United States has less stringent regulations. AIUI, commercial (as opposed to consumer) boards for sale in the U.S. may still use leaded solder. Hmm.. I didn't realize that there were any regulations on leaded solder here in the USA. I just thought we got consumer grade crap that was manufactured for sale in the EU that happens to be ROHS compliant. Ditto. I'd love to know about any laws banning leaded solder in the USA so I can get a jump on starting my new multimillion-dollar recycled home- electronics business. ah-so. Apparently my confusion on this issue hasn't worn off yet. *Somewhere* I thought I heard that consumer grade electronics had to be RoHS compliant, but it might have been a dream... I do know that California has some RoHS restrictions. I also know that several of our customers who market globally require us to comply with EU RoHS assembly standards so that they can market worldwide without trying to keep track of which unit has lead and which one doesn't. So it's likely that even stuff manufactured in the U.S., for sale in the U.S., has the feared lead-free solder in it. I saw an article the other day that said that Arnie had personally blocked some lead-restrictive potential legislation in his capacity as governor of ca. Ah I've just found it. Don't know if it will make it through the newsgroup server system, but here it is copied below ... California vetoes ROHS-expansion bill Edited by Suzanne Deffree -- EDN, 1/10/2008 California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger has vetoed an assembly bill that would have more closely aligned California’s ROHS (restriction-of-hazardous-substances) law and regulations with the EU (European Union) ROHS directive. The bill, AB 48, would have expanded California ROHS to include all electrical and electronic equipment, as opposed to its current requirements for “covered electronic devices,” which include nine video-display devices that the state’s Department of Toxic Substances Control regulations list. The bill also aimed to require that all electrical and electronic equipment that manufacturers sell in California as of Jan 1, 2010, comply with EU ROHS stipulations for lead, mercury, cadmium, and hexavalent cadmium. Schwarzenegger sent the bill back to the California legislature in the fall, stating in a memo that the bill’s approach “is largely unworkable and instead of the benefits it seeks to accomplish, could ultimately result in unintended and potentially more harmful consequences.” The governor noted the exemption language for spare parts and refurbished products, claiming that, as written, the bill would make many electronic products prematurely obsolete and force their retirement years earlier than necessary. The California legislature is expected to try to pass this or a similar bill again in 2008. Arfa |
#50
Posted to sci.electronics.components,sci.electronics.repair
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why 60-40 solder?
Showing that Arnold is not just another pretty face. Implementing RoHS
as mandated by the EU for solders may actually cause the release of greater amounts of toxins into the environment than use of traditional lead-tin alloys. There have been studies that address this issue, and the "benefit" of EU-style RoHS is far from clear and certainly not unalloyed (pun intentional). So EU-style RoHS regulation for solder: 1) results in poorer quality products 2) may actually worsen the environment relative to what would be with use of lead-tin Sounds like typical politco-think. Jump too soon on some bandwagon because it sounds good, then refuse to even look publically at the evidence that perhaps it was a mistake. Just quietly grant exemptions to pressure groups with enough lobbying clout or soft money ... Politicians, Bah Humbug. (And, yes, I vote; not just complain.) Arfa Daily wrote: snippage Schwarzenegger sent the bill back to the California legislature in the fall, stating in a memo that the bill’s approach “is largely unworkable and instead of the benefits it seeks to accomplish, could ultimately result in unintended and potentially more harmful consequences.” Arfa |
#51
Posted to sci.electronics.components,sci.electronics.repair
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why 60-40 solder?
On Mon, 18 Feb 2008 14:50:38 -0500, "Michael Kennedy"
wrote: Hmm.. I didn't realize that there were any regulations on leaded solder here in the USA. I just thought we got consumer grade crap that was manufactured for sale in the EU that happens to be ROHS compliant. As 99% of electronics that consumers buy originates in places other than in the USA you'll end up with exactly the same Chinese, Korean and Japanese crap that RoHS has forced on Europe, it might have some RoHS components, it might have lead free solder but it will have what the production plant has to hand and what stickers they have. You CAN pay for proper quality control but it costs. Produce it within your own borders and you might end up with something that will last, but on the downside it will nearly always cost ten times as much as the import. It is impossible to get it through thick politicians heads that solidly built equipment with 60/40 solder and replaced every 10-20 years is much better for the environment than stuff that barely makes it into the consumers home before going completely tits up. I'm still using the same amp and turntable I bought in 1980, the same CD player I bought in 1987, the same main TV I bought in 1989 and the same portable TV I bought in 1980. The VHS Video I bought in 1983 was only recently retired with the purchase of a Digital Terrestrial Hard Disc Recorder. I doubt it will last 10 years let alone 25. Other than a few caps, the odd semi and a few dry joints, they haven't really needed any major work. I reluctantly threw out a couple of 17" monitors last week - down the dump there was a huge pile of discount shop brand TV's that looked at the most a couple of years old. -- |
#52
Posted to sci.electronics.components,sci.electronics.repair
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why 60-40 solder?
Kevin G. Rhoads wrote:
Showing that Arnold is not just another pretty face. Implementing RoHS as mandated by the EU for solders may actually cause the release of greater amounts of toxins into the environment than use of traditional lead-tin alloys. There have been studies that address this issue, and the "benefit" of EU-style RoHS is far from clear and certainly not unalloyed (pun intentional). So EU-style RoHS regulation for solder: 1) results in poorer quality products 2) may actually worsen the environment relative to what would be with use of lead-tin Sounds like typical politco-think. Jump too soon on some bandwagon because it sounds good, then refuse to even look publically at the evidence that perhaps it was a mistake. Just quietly grant exemptions to pressure groups with enough lobbying clout or soft money ... Politicians, Bah Humbug. (And, yes, I vote; not just complain.) Arfa Daily wrote: snippage Schwarzenegger sent the bill back to the California legislature in the fall, stating in a memo that the bill’s approach “is largely unworkable and instead of the benefits it seeks to accomplish, could ultimately result in unintended and potentially more harmful consequences.” Arfa Agree completely with the above. IMM, the problem is not lead content of equipment in use, but what happens to it after useful life. I assume the original intent of the legislation was the same, although I've not followed either the issue or the thread till now. In that vein, the greater issue is that there are so many things being disposed of, and disposed of irresponsibly. Were it the case, that consumer electronics were not so 'disposable', the problem would be much less dire (if indeed it is so, even now). How many of us here--who have sniffing solder fumes daily for 40 or more years--have any significant amount of it in our systems? I would guess, little more than the population as a whole. If things were made to last and be repairable and/or upgradeable...and finally *responsibly* disposable/recyclable; we wouldn't be in this pickle. jak |
#53
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why 60-40 solder?
On Feb 18, 5:11*pm, clifto wrote:
Michael Kennedy wrote: "Smitty Two" wrote... Let's be clear that the United States has less stringent regulations. AIUI, commercial (as opposed to consumer) boards for sale in the U.S. may still use leaded solder. Hmm.. I didn't realize that there were any regulations on leaded solder here in the USA. I just thought we got consumer grade crap that was manufactured for sale in the EU that happens to be ROHS compliant. Ditto. I'd love to know about any laws banning leaded solder in the USA so I can get a jump on starting my new multimillion-dollar recycled home- electronics business. For residential plumbing, lead solder has been illegal in the US since 1988 or so. Tim. |
#54
Posted to sci.electronics.components,sci.electronics.repair
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why 60-40 solder?
"jakdedert" wrote in message ... Kevin G. Rhoads wrote: Showing that Arnold is not just another pretty face. Implementing RoHS as mandated by the EU for solders may actually cause the release of greater amounts of toxins into the environment than use of traditional lead-tin alloys. There have been studies that address this issue, and the "benefit" of EU-style RoHS is far from clear and certainly not unalloyed (pun intentional). So EU-style RoHS regulation for solder: 1) results in poorer quality products 2) may actually worsen the environment relative to what would be with use of lead-tin Sounds like typical politco-think. Jump too soon on some bandwagon because it sounds good, then refuse to even look publically at the evidence that perhaps it was a mistake. Just quietly grant exemptions to pressure groups with enough lobbying clout or soft money ... Politicians, Bah Humbug. (And, yes, I vote; not just complain.) Arfa Daily wrote: snippage Schwarzenegger sent the bill back to the California legislature in the fall, stating in a memo that the bill’s approach “is largely unworkable and instead of the benefits it seeks to accomplish, could ultimately result in unintended and potentially more harmful consequences.” Arfa Agree completely with the above. IMM, the problem is not lead content of equipment in use, but what happens to it after useful life. I assume the original intent of the legislation was the same, although I've not followed either the issue or the thread till now. In that vein, the greater issue is that there are so many things being disposed of, and disposed of irresponsibly. Were it the case, that consumer electronics were not so 'disposable', the problem would be much less dire (if indeed it is so, even now). How many of us here--who have sniffing solder fumes daily for 40 or more years--have any significant amount of it in our systems? I would guess, little more than the population as a whole. If things were made to last and be repairable and/or upgradeable...and finally *responsibly* disposable/recyclable; we wouldn't be in this pickle. jak Ah, but thats not how the world thinks these days.. Especailly in America. People want new stuff all the time. Look at cell phones and TVs. I hear in parts of the country people throw away perfectly good CRT TVs because they are not thin and flat!?!? I wish I could get my hands on a nice 32-36" CRT TV that someone is upgrading. I don't like these new display types because they are almost all Wide screen and therefore distort the picture or have huge bars on each side of the screen. The picture quality increase of HDTV is neglible from a sutiable viewing distance unless of course you are using it as a computer monitor. Mike |
#55
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why 60-40 solder?
"Tim Shoppa" wrote in message ... On Feb 18, 5:11 pm, clifto wrote: Michael Kennedy wrote: "Smitty Two" wrote... Let's be clear that the United States has less stringent regulations. AIUI, commercial (as opposed to consumer) boards for sale in the U.S. may still use leaded solder. Hmm.. I didn't realize that there were any regulations on leaded solder here in the USA. I just thought we got consumer grade crap that was manufactured for sale in the EU that happens to be ROHS compliant. Ditto. I'd love to know about any laws banning leaded solder in the USA so I can get a jump on starting my new multimillion-dollar recycled home- electronics business. For residential plumbing, lead solder has been illegal in the US since 1988 or so. Tim. Well there is lead solder in my house and I drink the water. No lead poisoning yet.. Mike |
#56
Posted to sci.electronics.components,sci.electronics.repair
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why 60-40 solder?
"Mike" wrote in message ... On Mon, 18 Feb 2008 14:50:38 -0500, "Michael Kennedy" wrote: Hmm.. I didn't realize that there were any regulations on leaded solder here in the USA. I just thought we got consumer grade crap that was manufactured for sale in the EU that happens to be ROHS compliant. As 99% of electronics that consumers buy originates in places other than in the USA you'll end up with exactly the same Chinese, Korean and Japanese crap that RoHS has forced on Europe, it might have some RoHS components, it might have lead free solder but it will have what the production plant has to hand and what stickers they have. You CAN pay for proper quality control but it costs. Produce it within your own borders and you might end up with something that will last, but on the downside it will nearly always cost ten times as much as the import. It is impossible to get it through thick politicians heads that solidly built equipment with 60/40 solder and replaced every 10-20 years is much better for the environment than stuff that barely makes it into the consumers home before going completely tits up. This is my current problem, I need to get a new tv. I don't think I can make my old 1988 Sylvania 28" run much longer. The tube is getting weak. But I don't want to spend $800 on a TV that will last 3 years die and be un servicable. Mike |
#57
Posted to sci.electronics.components,sci.electronics.repair
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why 60-40 solder?
Michael Kennedy wrote:
snip I wish I could get my hands on a nice 32-36" CRT TV that someone is upgrading. I don't like these new display types because they are almost all Wide screen and therefore distort the picture or have huge bars on each side of the screen. The picture quality increase of HDTV is neglible from a sutiable viewing distance unless of course you are using it as a computer monitor. Agree about HD quality. In any case, it's only as good as the source, and my cable system introduces some pretty serious artifacts and noise into the analog line. Digital might be better if I had it. IMO, everyday HD, when I've seen it, has been distinctly underwhelming. I've seen some HD monitors, connected directly to the source--which were almost stunning. Check your local Craigslist for CRT monitors and TV's. I see them every day...especially the big ones. Take along a couple of friends if you find one, however. They are HEAVY! jak Mike |
#58
Posted to sci.electronics.components,sci.electronics.repair
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why 60-40 solder?
Michael Kennedy wrote:
"Tim Shoppa" wrote in message ... On Feb 18, 5:11 pm, clifto wrote: Michael Kennedy wrote: "Smitty Two" wrote... Let's be clear that the United States has less stringent regulations. AIUI, commercial (as opposed to consumer) boards for sale in the U.S. may still use leaded solder. Hmm.. I didn't realize that there were any regulations on leaded solder here in the USA. I just thought we got consumer grade crap that was manufactured for sale in the EU that happens to be ROHS compliant. Ditto. I'd love to know about any laws banning leaded solder in the USA so I can get a jump on starting my new multimillion-dollar recycled home- electronics business. For residential plumbing, lead solder has been illegal in the US since 1988 or so. Tim. Well there is lead solder in my house and I drink the water. No lead poisoning yet.. How can you tell? FWIW, I think the ban on lead in plumbing makes a lot of sense. Still, I'd think that there is very little--if any--lead in actual contact with the water in a properly sweated joint. jak Mike |
#59
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why 60-40 solder?
In article ,
jakdedert wrote: Well there is lead solder in my house and I drink the water. No lead poisoning yet.. How can you tell? FWIW, I think the ban on lead in plumbing makes a lot of sense. Still, I'd think that there is very little--if any--lead in actual contact with the water in a properly sweated joint. Nor does the lead dissolve in water - lead pipes were in use for hundreds of years. Of course it may depend on the type of water. Hard water coats the insides of the pipes. -- *He's not dead - he's electroencephalographically challenged Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#60
Posted to sci.electronics.components,sci.electronics.repair
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why 60-40 solder?
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article , jakdedert wrote: Well there is lead solder in my house and I drink the water. No lead poisoning yet.. How can you tell? FWIW, I think the ban on lead in plumbing makes a lot of sense. Still, I'd think that there is very little--if any--lead in actual contact with the water in a properly sweated joint. Nor does the lead dissolve in water - lead pipes were in use for hundreds of years. Of course it may depend on the type of water. Hard water coats the insides of the pipes. Actually, it's been posited that the use of lead plumbing was one of the causes of the decline of the Roman Empire. That's just a story I've heard, and upon what I based my opinion. The truth of it, and the chemical reaction involved is beyond my experience. jak |
#61
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why 60-40 solder?
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article , jakdedert wrote: Well there is lead solder in my house and I drink the water. No lead poisoning yet.. How can you tell? FWIW, I think the ban on lead in plumbing makes a lot of sense. Still, I'd think that there is very little--if any--lead in actual contact with the water in a properly sweated joint. Nor does the lead dissolve in water - lead pipes were in use for hundreds of years. Of course it may depend on the type of water. Hard water coats the insides of the pipes. Look up lead solubility in water and you will find some interesting papers. The type of chlorination has a big effect on the solubility of lead. There are other factors about what is in the pipes and water. Your best hope is that the scale stays Pb++ and that the lead get covered. Lead from the pipes showed up as a problem for the Romans. |
#62
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why 60-40 solder?
"jakdedert" wrote in message ... Michael Kennedy wrote: snip I wish I could get my hands on a nice 32-36" CRT TV that someone is upgrading. I don't like these new display types because they are almost all Wide screen and therefore distort the picture or have huge bars on each side of the screen. The picture quality increase of HDTV is neglible from a sutiable viewing distance unless of course you are using it as a computer monitor. Agree about HD quality. In any case, it's only as good as the source, and my cable system introduces some pretty serious artifacts and noise into the analog line. Digital might be better if I had it. IMO, everyday HD, when I've seen it, has been distinctly underwhelming. I've seen some HD monitors, connected directly to the source--which were almost stunning. Check your local Craigslist for CRT monitors and TV's. I see them every day...especially the big ones. Take along a couple of friends if you find one, however. They are HEAVY! jak Mike On a recent trip to Vegas, I called into the Sony shop in Caesar's mall, to have a look at the latest offerings and see if they were any different your side of the pond. There was a huge - 42 maybe even bigger - LCD screen running HD from a Blu Ray DVD player, and for the very first time with any flat screen that I've seen, I have to say that it was absolutely stunning. It was like looking at the very best quality cinema display. It was actually showing a clip from Pirates 3. But the problem is that whilst these digitally created and displayed pictures are lovely at native resolution, when you try to watch 'normal' broadcast TV on them, they look perfectly dreadful. I don't know about over there, but here, at the moment, there is little 'broadcast' HD, so if you want to see such a TV working at its best, then it's got to be, for the most part, from an HD video source. For mainly this reason, I am currently sticking with my 34" CRT Tosh, which gives a pretty much faultless display on any content. I am looking forward to SED screens becoming commercially available, as I have read that these give the best of both worlds, with an extremely 'CRT-like' picture. Arfa |
#63
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why 60-40 solder?
"Michael Kennedy" wrote in message . .. "Tim Shoppa" wrote in message ... On Feb 18, 5:11 pm, clifto wrote: Michael Kennedy wrote: "Smitty Two" wrote... Let's be clear that the United States has less stringent regulations. AIUI, commercial (as opposed to consumer) boards for sale in the U.S. may still use leaded solder. Hmm.. I didn't realize that there were any regulations on leaded solder here in the USA. I just thought we got consumer grade crap that was manufactured for sale in the EU that happens to be ROHS compliant. Ditto. I'd love to know about any laws banning leaded solder in the USA so I can get a jump on starting my new multimillion-dollar recycled home- electronics business. For residential plumbing, lead solder has been illegal in the US since 1988 or so. Tim. Well there is lead solder in my house and I drink the water. No lead poisoning yet.. Mike Many old houses over here still have lead pipework feeding them with water. Certainly, the house that I lived in and drank the water in for many years as a kid, had lead pipes. Leaded solder was banned here some years ago for 'open' pipework systems, but as far as I know, there was no such restriction for 'closed' systems such as central heating. Lead is not soluble in water anyway, so I see no reason that water passing through lead pipes, let alone just moving past leaded solder joints, should become contaminated. I have a friend who is a plumber, and he told me that it is very much harder to get a guaranteed good joint first time, with lead-free solder, due to the very odd melting and re-solidifying characteristics that it has. Arfa |
#64
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why 60-40 solder?
"Clint Sharp" wrote in message ... In message , Pieter writes It is illegal to produce boards with lead, just check the internet on RoHS. It is allowed in military applications and some medical devices as reliability is lower. I think it's perfectly legal to rework boards using lead/tin solder if the boards were originally produced with it and because of that you can still buy led/tin rosin fluxed solder. Absolutely correct. You can actually legally rework a lead-free board using standard leaded solder, if the item was placed on the market before July 2006, although some experts warn specifically against this practice, claiming that mixing unleaded and leaded solder leads to an even more potentially unreliable joint, than lead-free alone ... Arfa |
#65
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why 60-40 solder?
"none" ""doug\"@(none)" wrote in message ... Dave Plowman (News) wrote: In article , jakdedert wrote: Well there is lead solder in my house and I drink the water. No lead poisoning yet.. How can you tell? FWIW, I think the ban on lead in plumbing makes a lot of sense. Still, I'd think that there is very little--if any--lead in actual contact with the water in a properly sweated joint. Nor does the lead dissolve in water - lead pipes were in use for hundreds of years. Of course it may depend on the type of water. Hard water coats the insides of the pipes. Look up lead solubility in water and you will find some interesting papers. The type of chlorination has a big effect on the solubility of lead. There are other factors about what is in the pipes and water. Your best hope is that the scale stays Pb++ and that the lead get covered. Lead from the pipes showed up as a problem for the Romans. It is a good thing that lead was removed from pipes being that I have experienced lead soldered joints (Poss not sweated properly too) dissolving and leaking and usually in easy inaccessible places, I have also experienced lead soldered copper pipes in refrigerators where the solder has totally "Dissolved" to just a paste (It were used in older refrigerators to act as a heat exchanger for the gas to and from the evaporator to improve efficiency) so I am sure it can and often does leak into the water system. That as well as the availability of cheaper higher temp brazing equipment and cheaper silver solder (Often without flux required) available providing better and more permanent joints is a better and safer alternative. Justy |
#66
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why 60-40 solder?
"Arfa Daily" wrote in
: "Michael Kennedy" wrote in message . .. "Tim Shoppa" wrote in message .. . On Feb 18, 5:11 pm, clifto wrote: Michael Kennedy wrote: "Smitty Two" wrote... Let's be clear that the United States has less stringent regulations. AIUI, commercial (as opposed to consumer) boards for sale in the U.S. may still use leaded solder. Hmm.. I didn't realize that there were any regulations on leaded solder here in the USA. I just thought we got consumer grade crap that was manufactured for sale in the EU that happens to be ROHS compliant. Ditto. I'd love to know about any laws banning leaded solder in the USA so I can get a jump on starting my new multimillion-dollar recycled home- electronics business. For residential plumbing, lead solder has been illegal in the US since 1988 or so. Tim. Well there is lead solder in my house and I drink the water. No lead poisoning yet.. Mike Many old houses over here still have lead pipework feeding them with water. Certainly, the house that I lived in and drank the water in for many years as a kid, had lead pipes. Leaded solder was banned here some years ago for 'open' pipework systems, but as far as I know, there was no such restriction for 'closed' systems such as central heating. Lead is not soluble in water anyway, ..... http://www.lenntech.com/elements-and...-and-water.htm [quote] Under normal conditions lead does not react with water. However, when lead comes in contact with moist air reactivity with water increases. A small lead oxide (PbO) layer forms at the surface of the metal. When both oxygen and water are present, metallic lead is converted to lead hydroxide (Pb(OH) 2) [unquote] Some other interesting info in the above cited article. -- bz 73 de N5BZ k please pardon my infinite ignorance, the set-of-things-I-do-not-know is an infinite set. remove ch100-5 to avoid spam trap |
#67
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why 60-40 solder?
jakdedert wrote:
Actually, it's been posited that the use of lead plumbing was one of the causes of the decline of the Roman Empire. That's just a story I've heard, and upon what I based my opinion. The truth of it, and the chemical reaction involved is beyond my experience. jak It wasn't lead pipes, it was 'Lead Acetate', a toxic sweetener made from lead: http://www.google.com/search?q=sugar+of+lead&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7&rlz=1I7GWYA -- Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to prove it. Member of DAV #85. Michael A. Terrell Central Florida |
#68
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why 60-40 solder?
Michael A. Terrell wrote:
jakdedert wrote: Actually, it's been posited that the use of lead plumbing was one of the causes of the decline of the Roman Empire. That's just a story I've heard, and upon what I based my opinion. The truth of it, and the chemical reaction involved is beyond my experience. jak It wasn't lead pipes, it was 'Lead Acetate', a toxic sweetener made from lead: snip Wasn't there also a problem with lead-based face makeup both in Rome and also until modern times? Michael |
#69
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why 60-40 solder?
It wasn't lead pipes, it was "Lead Acetate", a toxic sweetener
made from lead. Wasn't there also a problem with lead-based face makeup both in Rome and also until modern times? What about lead water pipes? I've seen an ad from the '20s, from the Lead Institute (or something like that), proclaiming how wonderful it was that the Roman Empire distributed water through lead pipes! |
#70
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why 60-40 solder?
William Sommerwerck wrote:
It wasn't lead pipes, it was "Lead Acetate", a toxic sweetener made from lead. Wasn't there also a problem with lead-based face makeup both in Rome and also until modern times? What about lead water pipes? I've seen an ad from the '20s, from the Lead Institute (or something like that), proclaiming how wonderful it was that the Roman Empire distributed water through lead pipes! Location:Netherlandds. Until last year I had a lead pipe between the street main feed and my water meter(copper pipe inside). When the pipe was replaced, there was 1.5 mm deposit inside the old pipe, and no possible access to the lead pipe. But of course we do not chlorinate our water supply, and the water is always moderately hard(and very tasty). So we can safely drink it without gagging, and without lead and chlorine poisoning. |
#71
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why 60-40 solder?
In article ,
Sjouke Burry wrote: I've seen an ad from the '20s, from the Lead Institute (or something like that), proclaiming how wonderful it was that the Roman Empire distributed water through lead pipes! Location:Netherlandds. Until last year I had a lead pipe between the street main feed and my water meter(copper pipe inside). When the pipe was replaced, there was 1.5 mm deposit inside the old pipe, and no possible access to the lead pipe. But of course we do not chlorinate our water supply, and the water is always moderately hard(and very tasty). So we can safely drink it without gagging, and without lead and chlorine poisoning. I replaced some lead pipe in my parent's house some time ago - it is in a very soft water area. Out of curiosity I sectioned it and looked at it carefully. The original tooling marks - presumably where the pipe was formed by forcing through a die - was still clear and defined. In other words no signs of erosion in over 100 years. -- *Letting a cat out of the bag is easier than putting it back in * Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#72
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why 60-40 solder?
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message ... In article , Sjouke Burry wrote: I've seen an ad from the '20s, from the Lead Institute (or something like that), proclaiming how wonderful it was that the Roman Empire distributed water through lead pipes! Location:Netherlandds. Until last year I had a lead pipe between the street main feed and my water meter(copper pipe inside). When the pipe was replaced, there was 1.5 mm deposit inside the old pipe, and no possible access to the lead pipe. But of course we do not chlorinate our water supply, and the water is always moderately hard(and very tasty). So we can safely drink it without gagging, and without lead and chlorine poisoning. I replaced some lead pipe in my parent's house some time ago - it is in a very soft water area. Out of curiosity I sectioned it and looked at it carefully. The original tooling marks - presumably where the pipe was formed by forcing through a die - was still clear and defined. In other words no signs of erosion in over 100 years. As we'd probably expect, Dave ... ;-) Arfa |
#73
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why 60-40 solder?
jakdedert writes:
How can you tell? FWIW, I think the ban on lead in plumbing makes a lot of sense. Still, I'd think that there is very little--if any--lead in actual contact with the water in a properly sweated joint. jak Mike before chlorination or fluoridation, lead from pipe was insignifant as the lead doesn't dissolve in pH neutral water. Probably get more from the brass in the hot water fittings and faucets. However, if the pH is acidic, you have a serious problem. I just had to put in a $250k pH control system in a tiny (80 customers) water system I run to raise the pH to slightly alkaline (about 8). Steve. -- Steven D. Swift, , http://www.novatech-instr.com NOVATECH INSTRUMENTS, INC. P.O. Box 55997 206.301.8986, fax 206.363.4367 Seattle, Washington 98155 USA |
#74
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why 60-40 solder?
On Tue, 19 Feb 2008 14:18:15 -0600, jakdedert
wrote: Well there is lead solder in my house and I drink the water. No lead poisoning yet.. How can you tell? FWIW, I think the ban on lead in plumbing makes a lot of sense. Still, I'd think that there is very little--if any--lead in actual contact with the water in a properly sweated joint. It certainlty makes more sense than banning it in electronics. All electronics gets recycled nowadays. And we don't eat it. When all lead in electronics is banned, we will have saved 0.14% of the world lead usage. I live in europe. You will follow with leadfree electronics sooner or later. And then you will follow this too: Since Januar 1st 2008 In Germany it is forbidden to drive older cars in certain cities. Diesels must be from 2001+, gasoline must also be reasonably new. In the Netherlands, Amsterdam is going to follow this too. And I am sure other countries will follow. And the area will expand from city-centres to whole cuties, then whole countries. Meaning that we all will have to drive very new cars. The reason behind this is that newer cars follow the newest environment requirements. About the plumbing: it is adviced over here that when you live in a house with old plumbing (whats in a name), it is best to let (in the morning) the water run for 10 seconds or more first so the piping contains new water. Very small amounts of lead may leak into the water, giving high levels of lead. Especially for children this is not good. Pieter |
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