I have a 14 y/o RC car that has a broken antenna on the remote. Is
there a way to fix that? The car won't work without it. The antenna is
like the ones that are on boomboxes. There was a small piece of metal
that kept it attached to the remote and the piece broke off.

I tried attaching wire to the remote and the car barely worked. Is
there a specific kind of wire I need?

I could probably buy a better car than this one but I don't like
throwing things away if they can be fixed, unless it costs too much to
fix it.

RadioShack has a replacement antenna, though it's not clear whether it will
fit.

http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...entPage=family

You might also search local hobby shops.

And I must ask the obvious... HAVE YOU CONTACTED THE MANUFACTURER?

Antennas are tuned. Go to where you bought your remote car and see if they
can supply an original part.

--

JANA
_____


"Mike S." wrote in message
...
I have a 14 y/o RC car that has a broken antenna on the remote. Is
there a way to fix that? The car won't work without it. The antenna is
like the ones that are on boomboxes. There was a small piece of metal
that kept it attached to the remote and the piece broke off.

I tried attaching wire to the remote and the car barely worked. Is
there a specific kind of wire I need?

I could probably buy a better car than this one but I don't like
throwing things away if they can be fixed, unless it costs too much to
fix it.

"JANA" wrote in message
...

Antennas are tuned. Go to where you bought your
remote car and see if they can supply an original part.

Forgive me, but I find a lot of your postings misleading or non-factual.

Antennas are not, generally, "tuned". If tuning is required, it's usually
performed with a loading coil in the body of the transmitter. The only
consumer product I've ever seen with a loading coil in the antenna itself
was a Concord CB transceiver of 40 years ago. (The intent was to improve
radiation by moving the coild to the middle of the antenna.)

If the antenna is the correct length, it will radiate efficiently. You don't
need an OEM antenna.

William Sommerwerck wrote:
"JANA" wrote in message
...

Antennas are tuned. Go to where you bought your
remote car and see if they can supply an original part.

Forgive me, but I find a lot of your postings misleading or non-factual.

Antennas are not, generally, "tuned". If tuning is required, it's usually
performed with a loading coil in the body of the transmitter. The only
consumer product I've ever seen with a loading coil in the antenna itself
was a Concord CB transceiver of 40 years ago. (The intent was to improve
radiation by moving the coild to the middle of the antenna.)

If the antenna is the correct length, it will radiate efficiently. You don't
need an OEM antenna.


You both are 'sort of' right, it would seem to me. Of course there are
inductors in consumer electronics. Whether you call them loading coils
or something else, in every transmitter I've encountered, there was an
inductor in the signal output path which tuned the original length of
antenna to approximate the expected load of the antenna.

That said, getting the correct length antenna (or a longer telescoping
one, but not fully extending it) is a pretty trivial matter...as long as
that length can be determined.

jak

jakdedert wrote:

William Sommerwerck wrote:

"JANA" wrote in message
...

Antennas are tuned. Go to where you bought your
remote car and see if they can supply an original part.


Forgive me, but I find a lot of your postings misleading or non-factual.

Antennas are not, generally, "tuned". If tuning is required, it's usually
performed with a loading coil in the body of the transmitter. The only
consumer product I've ever seen with a loading coil in the antenna itself
was a Concord CB transceiver of 40 years ago. (The intent was to improve
radiation by moving the coild to the middle of the antenna.)

If the antenna is the correct length, it will radiate efficiently. You
don't
need an OEM antenna.


You both are 'sort of' right, it would seem to me. Of course there are
inductors in consumer electronics. Whether you call them loading coils
or something else, in every transmitter I've encountered, there was an
inductor in the signal output path which tuned the original length of
antenna to approximate the expected load of the antenna.

That said, getting the correct length antenna (or a longer telescoping
one, but not fully extending it) is a pretty trivial matter...as long as
that length can be determined.

jak
Ah, Just cut up a hanger and stick it in there! ))


--
"I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy"

"Daily Thought:

SOME PEOPLE ARE LIKE SLINKIES. NOT REALLY GOOD FOR ANYTHING BUT
THEY BRING A SMILE TO YOUR FACE WHEN PUSHED DOWN THE STAIRS.
http://webpages.charter.net/jamie_5"

"Jamie" t wrote in message
...
jakdedert wrote:

William Sommerwerck wrote:

"JANA" wrote in message
...

Antennas are tuned. Go to where you bought your
remote car and see if they can supply an original part.


Forgive me, but I find a lot of your postings misleading or non-factual.

Antennas are not, generally, "tuned". If tuning is required, it's
usually
performed with a loading coil in the body of the transmitter. The only
consumer product I've ever seen with a loading coil in the antenna
itself
was a Concord CB transceiver of 40 years ago. (The intent was to improve
radiation by moving the coild to the middle of the antenna.)

If the antenna is the correct length, it will radiate efficiently. You
don't
need an OEM antenna.


You both are 'sort of' right, it would seem to me. Of course there are
inductors in consumer electronics. Whether you call them loading coils
or something else, in every transmitter I've encountered, there was an
inductor in the signal output path which tuned the original length of
antenna to approximate the expected load of the antenna.

That said, getting the correct length antenna (or a longer telescoping
one, but not fully extending it) is a pretty trivial matter...as long as
that length can be determined.

jak
Ah, Just cut up a hanger and stick it in there! ))


--
"I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy"

"Daily Thought:

SOME PEOPLE ARE LIKE SLINKIES. NOT REALLY GOOD FOR ANYTHING BUT
THEY BRING A SMILE TO YOUR FACE WHEN PUSHED DOWN THE STAIRS.
http://webpages.charter.net/jamie_5"

Well if it is in the 44mhz range like most cheap rc stuff is pretty much
anything attached to it will recieve a signal sufficient to make it work.
Sure length will make a difference in how well it works, but you may be able
to get close enough by guessing.

If it's in the 47 MHz range like most cheap R/C stuff is,
pretty much anything attached to it will recieve [sic] a
signal sufficient to make it work. Sure, length will make
a difference in how well it works, but you may be able
to get close enough by guessing.

And inasmuch as the OP has the original antenna, there's no guessing about
the "correct" length.

In short, you don't need the "original" antenna.

Jamie wrote:

Ah, Just cut up a hanger and stick it in there! ))


Why don't you 'Stick it', Jamie? You aren't the least bit funny, and
a cut off hanger stuck into the remote could cause a severe injury, or
death.


Piano wire, with a closed loop on the end makes a nice antenna,
becasue it won't catch on anything, and is springy enough to resist
damage.


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
...
Jamie wrote:

Ah, Just cut up a hanger and stick it in there! ))


Why don't you 'Stick it', Jamie? You aren't the least bit funny, and
a cut off hanger stuck into the remote could cause a severe injury, or
death.


Piano wire, with a closed loop on the end makes a nice antenna,
becasue it won't catch on anything, and is springy enough to resist
damage.


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

Though a Hanger "could" work in a pinch, I agree with Michael. Most of those
RC type antennas are a thin metal which has some play to it. The regular RC
antennas are thinner and thus "lighter" than a "Hanger". It would not drag
the RC down - where a "Hanger" might. Depending on the size of the RC unit,
the "hanger" could make it top heavy! If the RC goes under an item, the
hanger - if not budging "could" cause internal damage when the shock hits
the base. The "RC type" would tend to give and perhaps - "no" damage. I
don't deal with RC stuff enough to get into all "suppliers" but it seems
someone should sell the antennas - maybe a hobby shop. OR get some wire like
Michael suggested and use it - some of the "home remodeling" type stores
seem to sell a variety of wire gauges. Surely there is some out there
somewhere for you to find. Go to a flea market or Hamfest - you may find
some "junk" stuff there from which to pull an antenna from. I see that kind
of stuff all the time.

radiosrfun wrote:
"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
...
Jamie wrote:
Ah, Just cut up a hanger and stick it in there! ))

Why don't you 'Stick it', Jamie? You aren't the least bit funny, and
a cut off hanger stuck into the remote could cause a severe injury, or
death.


Piano wire, with a closed loop on the end makes a nice antenna,
becasue it won't catch on anything, and is springy enough to resist
damage.


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

Though a Hanger "could" work in a pinch, I agree with Michael. Most of those
RC type antennas are a thin metal which has some play to it. The regular RC
antennas are thinner and thus "lighter" than a "Hanger". It would not drag
the RC down - where a "Hanger" might. Depending on the size of the RC unit,
the "hanger" could make it top heavy! If the RC goes under an item, the
hanger - if not budging "could" cause internal damage when the shock hits
the base. The "RC type" would tend to give and perhaps - "no" damage. I
don't deal with RC stuff enough to get into all "suppliers" but it seems
someone should sell the antennas - maybe a hobby shop. OR get some wire like
Michael suggested and use it - some of the "home remodeling" type stores
seem to sell a variety of wire gauges. Surely there is some out there
somewhere for you to find. Go to a flea market or Hamfest - you may find
some "junk" stuff there from which to pull an antenna from. I see that kind
of stuff all the time.


Uh...okay. I'd agree with all the above, except the OP said "remote"
which I took to mean the transmitter. I'm still convinced that's what
he meant. If so little of the above actually applies.

That said, 'kids do the darndest things...' so having anything sharp
sticking out 'anywhere' could be a hazard; but I think when Jamie
recommended a coathanger he had tongue firmly in cheek (note the double
smileys).

As a kid, I *always* broke off the antennas on the cheap
three-transistor walkie-talkies I got...and used a chunk of 12 gauge
solid copper wire stuck down the stub as a replacement...worked passably
well, despite not being 'tuned' properly.

This thread got contentious when JANA apparently advised against trying
a substitute, based on some vague information about tuning. Then
William jumped in with a bunch of stuff not in the OP--or the
response--about loading coils, and went OT from there.

One final note: in the OP, it was mentioned that he stuck a piece of
wire in there, and it 'didn't work'. I think he might look into the
possibility that some connection was broken inside the unit. Wire
'should' have worked, as long as it was connected solidly, nearly the
correct length--and solid, not stranded.

This is a 14 year old TOY, in all probability...nothing to get worked up
over.

jak

"jakdedert" wrote in message
.. .
radiosrfun wrote:
"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
...
Jamie wrote:
Ah, Just cut up a hanger and stick it in there! ))

Why don't you 'Stick it', Jamie? You aren't the least bit funny, and
a cut off hanger stuck into the remote could cause a severe injury, or
death.


Piano wire, with a closed loop on the end makes a nice antenna,
becasue it won't catch on anything, and is springy enough to resist
damage.


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

Though a Hanger "could" work in a pinch, I agree with Michael. Most of
those RC type antennas are a thin metal which has some play to it. The
regular RC antennas are thinner and thus "lighter" than a "Hanger". It
would not drag the RC down - where a "Hanger" might. Depending on the
size of the RC unit, the "hanger" could make it top heavy! If the RC goes
under an item, the hanger - if not budging "could" cause internal damage
when the shock hits the base. The "RC type" would tend to give and
perhaps - "no" damage. I don't deal with RC stuff enough to get into all
"suppliers" but it seems someone should sell the antennas - maybe a hobby
shop. OR get some wire like Michael suggested and use it - some of the
"home remodeling" type stores seem to sell a variety of wire gauges.
Surely there is some out there somewhere for you to find. Go to a flea
market or Hamfest - you may find some "junk" stuff there from which to
pull an antenna from. I see that kind of stuff all the time.
Uh...okay. I'd agree with all the above, except the OP said "remote"
which I took to mean the transmitter. I'm still convinced that's what he
meant. If so little of the above actually applies.

That said, 'kids do the darndest things...' so having anything sharp
sticking out 'anywhere' could be a hazard; but I think when Jamie
recommended a coathanger he had tongue firmly in cheek (note the double
smileys).

As a kid, I *always* broke off the antennas on the cheap three-transistor
walkie-talkies I got...and used a chunk of 12 gauge solid copper wire
stuck down the stub as a replacement...worked passably well, despite not
being 'tuned' properly.

This thread got contentious when JANA apparently advised against trying a
substitute, based on some vague information about tuning. Then William
jumped in with a bunch of stuff not in the OP--or the response--about
loading coils, and went OT from there.

One final note: in the OP, it was mentioned that he stuck a piece of wire
in there, and it 'didn't work'. I think he might look into the
possibility that some connection was broken inside the unit. Wire
'should' have worked, as long as it was connected solidly, nearly the
correct length--and solid, not stranded.

This is a 14 year old TOY, in all probability...nothing to get worked up
over.

jak

I've lost track of the OPs intent. Still - a "hanger" though possible -
would make the thing a bit eh - heavy. "I" am not getting all bent over it -
just adding an extra opinion to the thread. What the OP ends up doing - is
their thing. If I ask a question, I take in all advice then go from there.
Thats how it works. AND yes - some suggestions "may" seem a tad safer or
unsafe than others. Not every suggestion will work for every one. But it is
nice to see - the OP IS getting some replies.

"jakdedert" wrote in message
.. .

This thread got contentious when JANA apparently advised
against trying a substitute, based on some vague information
about tuning. Then William jumped in with a bunch of stuff not
in the OP -- or the response -- about loading coils, and went
OT from there.

I was trying to _explain_ why what JANA said was (generally) incorrect,
rather than simply gainsaying him. JANA got "off-topic" by providing
incorrect/invalid information.

On Dec 16, 1:46 pm, jakdedert wrote:

You both are 'sort of' right, it would seem to me. Of course there are
inductors in consumer electronics. Whether you call them loading coils
or something else, in every transmitter I've encountered, there was an
inductor in the signal output path which tuned the original length of
antenna to approximate the expected load of the antenna.

That said, getting the correct length antenna (or a longer telescoping
one, but not fully extending it) is a pretty trivial matter...as long as
that length can be determined.

Absolutely!

Seconding this, most high-end RC transmitters will transmit on a
variety of frequencies within a specific range, changed by crystal.
Each frequency comes with a recommended antenna length for best
performance (again this is specific to the manufacturer). Those of us
who run R/C submarines with FM transmitters are acutely sensitive to
this. The proper antenna length can make a difference of several feet
of depth, although it has less of a perceptable effect on distance. I
cannot write to the effects of antenna length on an AM transmitter. I
do have a couple of AM R/C units, but they are "just toys" and so are
never run at any great distance from the transmitter.

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA

wrote in message
...

Seconding this, most high-end RC transmitters will transmit on a
variety of frequencies within a specific range, changed by crystal.

The difference in frequency is less than 5% -- probably less than 2%. That
is not a major difference in antenna length.

On Dec 17, 4:08 pm, "William Sommerwerck"
wrote:
wrote in message

...

Seconding this, most high-end RC transmitters will transmit on a
variety of frequencies within a specific range, changed by crystal.

The difference in frequency is less than 5% -- probably less than 2%. That
is not a major difference in antenna length.

Inches, anyway. I do notice that when I trim the antenna "correctly",
I will get about another foot of depth before the "No-Signal" blow-
ballast (Sub-Saver) relay kicks in. There are several of us on our bit
of creek, so we are acutely sensitive to frequency and try to be
several steps apart, at least.

I had to change out the factory motor in the latest sub for one with
more torque and speed, which, in turn required a different propellor
(but same diameter) to reduce cavitation at the higher RPM. Going
downstream is no problem. Going upstream requires a bit more oomph
than is typical of a submarine operating at "scale" speeds. The creek
is about 40' wide and something around 6' deep in the channel directly
in front of our summer house, and crystal-clear so ideal for the
purpose - except for the current.

Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Jamie wrote:

Ah, Just cut up a hanger and stick it in there! ))



Why don't you 'Stick it', Jamie? You aren't the least bit funny, and
a cut off hanger stuck into the remote could cause a severe injury, or
death.


Piano wire, with a closed loop on the end makes a nice antenna,
becasue it won't catch on anything, and is springy enough to resist
damage.


Why don't you go stick your head in a tub of water for
a while. You have absolutely no personally what so ever!

I can picture you sitting in the back corner of a party doing
nothing but badgering every one that's enjoying them self's.
You must be a real joy at a party! I bet they try to leave you
home!.

My bottom footer message fits you well.


--
"I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy"

"Daily Thought:

SOME PEOPLE ARE LIKE SLINKIES. NOT REALLY GOOD FOR ANYTHING BUT
THEY BRING A SMILE TO YOUR FACE WHEN PUSHED DOWN THE STAIRS.
http://webpages.charter.net/jamie_5"

Jamie wrote:

Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Jamie wrote:

Ah, Just cut up a hanger and stick it in there! ))



Why don't you 'Stick it', Jamie? You aren't the least bit funny, and
a cut off hanger stuck into the remote could cause a severe injury, or
death.


Piano wire, with a closed loop on the end makes a nice antenna,
becasue it won't catch on anything, and is springy enough to resist
damage.


Why don't you go stick your head in a tub of water for
a while. You have absolutely no personally what so ever!



Why don't you practice what you 'screch', and learn proper engliosh,
while you';re at it? You calim to be an engineer, ytet you appear to be
about 15 years old.

I can picture you sitting in the back corner of a party doing
nothing but badgering every one that's enjoying them self's.
You must be a real joy at a party! I bet they try to leave you
home!.

My bottom footer message fits you well.

--
"I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy"

"Daily Thought:

SOME PEOPLE ARE LIKE SLINKIES. NOT REALLY GOOD FOR ANYTHING BUT
THEY BRING A SMILE TO YOUR FACE WHEN PUSHED DOWN THE STAIRS.
http://webpages.charter.net/jamie_5"


Come on down to Florida any time you think that you're man enough to
push me down the stairs, slinky boy.



--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

On 12/17/07 7:17 PM, in article , "Michael A.
Terrell" wrote:

Jamie wrote:

Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Jamie wrote:

Ah, Just cut up a hanger and stick it in there! ))



Why don't you 'Stick it', Jamie? You aren't the least bit funny, and
a cut off hanger stuck into the remote could cause a severe injury, or
death.


Piano wire, with a closed loop on the end makes a nice antenna,
becasue it won't catch on anything, and is springy enough to resist
damage.


Why don't you go stick your head in a tub of water for
a while. You have absolutely no personally what so ever!



Why don't you practice what you 'screch', and learn proper engliosh,
while you';re at it? You calim to be an engineer, ytet you appear to be
about 15 years old.

Give Jamie a break...... He does fairly well for a guy who didn't get
beyond the 5th grade.




I can picture you sitting in the back corner of a party doing
nothing but badgering every one that's enjoying them self's.
You must be a real joy at a party! I bet they try to leave you
home!.

My bottom footer message fits you well.

--
"I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy"

"Daily Thought:

SOME PEOPLE ARE LIKE SLINKIES. NOT REALLY GOOD FOR ANYTHING BUT
THEY BRING A SMILE TO YOUR FACE WHEN PUSHED DOWN THE STAIRS.
http://webpages.charter.net/jamie_5"


Come on down to Florida any time you think that you're man enough to
push me down the stairs, slinky boy.

wrote in message
...
On Dec 17, 4:08 pm, "William Sommerwerck"
wrote:
wrote in message
...

Seconding this, most high-end RC transmitters will transmit on a
variety of frequencies within a specific range, changed by crystal.

The difference in frequency is less than 5% -- probably less than 2%.
That isn't a major difference in antenna length.

Inches, anyway. I do notice that when I trim the antenna "correctly",
I will get about another foot of depth before the "No-Signal" blow-
ballast (Sub-Saver) relay kicks in. There are several of us on our bit
of creek, so we are acutely sensitive to frequency and try to be
several steps apart, at least.

When I visited a friend in Texas some years back with my R/C submarine, we
managed to get it to dive (in a swimming pool) to a point well beyond the
maximum spec'd radio range, and it got stuck (even though the "descent
propeller" had shut off), because it didn't have enough bouyancy to rise
from that depth!

On Dec 18, 7:12 am, "William Sommerwerck"
wrote:

When I visited a friend in Texas some years back with my R/C submarine, we
managed to get it to dive (in a swimming pool) to a point well beyond the
maximum spec'd radio range, and it got stuck (even though the "descent
propeller" had shut off), because it didn't have enough bouyancy to rise
from that depth!

You need a Sub-Saver device. It is a relay that at a no-signal
condition will either blow a ballast tank or set the planes to full-up/
full speed depending on how it is installed.

Most R/C subs rely on internally generated heat to maintain positive
pressure inside the hull, but a clever builder (if space is available)
will install a shrader-valve and pressurize the hull a bit before
putting the sub in the water. I can get a reliable 6' of depth under
most conditions. By that, I mean have full controls and all
functions.

Remember the principle of the Cartesian Diver... that is where many
sub operators run into trouble with negative bouyancy. Remember,
sinking a submarine is well within design parameters, and almost
anyone can do it - the trick is "unsinking" it afterwards.

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA

wrote in message
...
On Dec 18, 7:12 am, "William Sommerwerck"
wrote:

When I visited a friend in Texas some years back with my R/C submarine,
we managed to get it to dive (in a swimming pool) to a point well beyond
the maximum spec'd radio range, and it got stuck (even though the
"descent propeller" had shut off), because it didn't have enough bouyancy
to rise from that depth!

You need a Sub-Saver device. It is a relay that at a no-signal condition
will either blow a ballast tank or set the planes to full-up/full-speed
depending on how it is installed.

This was a commercial toy (I still have it), and nowhere remotely of that
sophistication.

I understood.

But I have a different problem.

I have got a RC car and control unit. Both are working independently but how to know and tune frequency of transmitter and receiver so that with a remote my car work?

"Amin" wrote in message
...

I have got a RC car and control unit. Both are working
independently but how to know and tune frequency of
transmitter and receiver so that with a remote my car work?

How do you know /either/ is "working", if the transmitter won't control the
car?

The transmitter is probably crystal-controlled, so there's nothing to adjust.
Similarly, the receiver is either crystal-controlled, or is sufficiently
broadband to pick up the transmitter.

If they won't work, then you likely have a problem that has nothing to do with
frequency settings.

On Wed, 9 Jul 2014, Amin wrote:

I understood.

But I have a different problem.

I have got a RC car and control unit. Both are working independently but
how to know and tune frequency of transmitter and receiver so that with
a remote my car work?

You're replying to a thread from December 2007.

You haven't quoted any of what you are replying to. You "understand" yet
we have no idea what you claim to understand, then you have a different
problem, as if this is a continuation of a previous question. Yet it's
not.

If you have a question, don't dig out a 7 year old post and then post what
seems to be nonsense because you aren't even participating in that thread,
just tacking onto it. This has nothing to do with the previous thread,
and trying to figure out what that is about just wastes our time.

Michael

On Saturday, 15 December 2007 02:08:48 UTC+13, Mike S. wrote:
I have a 14 y/o RC car that has a broken antenna on the remote. Is
there a way to fix that? The car won't work without it. The antenna is
like the ones that are on boomboxes. There was a small piece of metal
that kept it attached to the remote and the piece broke off.

I tried attaching wire to the remote and the car barely worked. Is
there a specific kind of wire I need?

I could probably buy a better car than this one but I don't like
throwing things away if they can be fixed, unless it costs too much to
fix it.

just the top of my one snapped off. will it still work???

On Sunday, June 3, 2018 at 9:16:52 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Saturday, 15 December 2007 02:08:48 UTC+13, Mike S. wrote:
I have a 14 y/o RC car that has a broken antenna on the remote. Is
there a way to fix that? The car won't work without it. The antenna is
like the ones that are on boomboxes. There was a small piece of metal
that kept it attached to the remote and the piece broke off.

I tried attaching wire to the remote and the car barely worked. Is
there a specific kind of wire I need?

I could probably buy a better car than this one but I don't like
throwing things away if they can be fixed, unless it costs too much to
fix it.

just the top of my one snapped off. will it still work???

Yes. The antenna is 'cut' in the middle of the overall range - an inch-or-three will not matter.