I have a pair of Energizer Hi-Energy Lithium batteries that I think
are a pile of junk (to be polite). I don't believe they gave me any
more battery life than a set of regular alkaline batteries. And, they
are not rechargeable according to the fine print which is in red print
on a gold background so that it is impossible to read unless you use a
magnifying lens and a very strong light.

Anyone else have this experience?

H. R. (Bob) Hofmann

hr(bob) wrote:

I have a pair of Energizer Hi-Energy Lithium batteries that I think
are a pile of junk (to be polite). I don't believe they gave me any
more battery life than a set of regular alkaline batteries.

Nearly.

(compared to AA size alkalines)
By looking at the specs, under "normal" conditions, you're looking at an
about 50% increase in capacity, for about a 300% increase in price.

In practice, you're likely to see much the same.

Where they come into their own, is abnormally low temperatures (near
freezing in the snow for instance), where their life is about 10x alkalines.

Another area they may be better in is shelf life. You can expect about 10+
years for lithiums, and about 5-7 for alkalines.

Another perhaps fringe improvement is mass. They are generally lighter than
alkalines.


So if you're only ever in relatively warm climates, chew your batteries in
less than a few years, and don't care your saving a few snots worth of mass,
then they're largely pointless.
Otherwise in the above mentioned conditions, they can present a useful life
time increase, (albeit at some cost).



One point to be careful of, we have the e(squared) (e2) titanium batteries
here in australia. I'm guessing they're all over the world too.
I've never tried them, but going on the specs, they offer zero improvement
over the more "standard" alkaline batteries. At a premium of at least 150%
cost of the same-branded alkaline batteries.
There are minor differences of course, but nothing that you're going to
notice under use.
Their selling point is "improved" performance on high-current devices. True
to their word, they aren't lying (technically). However, you'd better get
your stop-watch and calculator out if you're going to note any differences...

And, they
are not rechargeable according to the fine print which is in red print
on a gold background so that it is impossible to read unless you use a
magnifying lens and a very strong light.

It's a PRIMARY battery technology. They were never designed to be
recharged. Same with alkalines. They were NEVER designed to be recharged.
The fact they ARE recharged is that someone (many years ago) found a charge
technique that doesn't fry the battery while still injecting some useful
energy back into it (albeit with some conditions attached).
Rechargeable alkalines have modified chemistry that tries to improve the
recharge life (which was less than a dozen times) at the cost of other
performance points. (along with a corresponding increase in price which makes
standard secondary rechargeable technologies look attractive).

IMO, get over it. If you want a rechargeable, buy a rechargeable (NiCAD/NiMH).

--
Linux Registered User # 302622
http://counter.li.org

John Tserkezis wrote:

Where they come into their own, is abnormally low temperatures (near
freezing in the snow for instance), where their life is about 10x alkalines.

Another area they may be better in is shelf life. You can expect about 10+
years for lithiums, and about 5-7 for alkalines.

The only place I have seen them here was a fan forced gas mask which was
part of an emergency kit given out to civilians in case of a CBW attack.
There it makes sense as the kit was to remain sealed until needed.

Once used, the batteries where the least of your problems.

I would probably put them in my emergency radios, some of which have
been the victims of battery leakage, but it's cheaper and easier to
rotate the batteries or keep them in a plastic bag outside the radio.

So if you're only ever in relatively warm climates, chew your batteries in
less than a few years, and don't care your saving a few snots worth of mass,
then they're largely pointless.

That pretty much fits me. If it freezes at all, it's never for more than
a day at a time. In the summer it goes up to 100F for a handfull of days.
Abnormally hot is 90F.

Rechargeable alkalines have modified chemistry that tries to improve the
recharge life (which was less than a dozen times) at the cost of other
performance points. (along with a corresponding increase in price which makes
standard secondary rechargeable technologies look attractive).

Whatever happend to the recharagebale alkalines that Ray-O-Vac came
out with in the U.S. in the mid 1990's? I bought a bunch of them to
use in handheld radios but found that they never performed as well
when recharged as the first time around and eventually gave up.

I did speak to an engineer at the company and at the time they had
no reliable way of recharging a battery pack. The charger would only
work on single cells, so you had to use AA battery packs and disaassemble
them for each charge.

By 1996 when I moved here, I had pretty much stopped using them and since the
chargers were never available in 230 volts, left them.

Geoff.
--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel N3OWJ/4X1GM
IL Voice: (07)-7424-1667 U.S. Voice: 1-215-821-1838
Visit my 'blog at http://geoffstechno.livejournal.com/

"hr(bob) " wrote in message
ups.com...
I have a pair of Energizer Hi-Energy Lithium batteries that I think
are a pile of junk (to be polite). I don't believe they gave me any
more battery life than a set of regular alkaline batteries. And, they
are not rechargeable according to the fine print which is in red print
on a gold background so that it is impossible to read unless you use a
magnifying lens and a very strong light.

Anyone else have this experience?

H. R. (Bob) Hofmann


I tried a set once - they "seemed" to do a "tad" better than alkalines - but
not enough for the price.

Geoffrey S. Mendelson wrote:

Once used, the batteries where the least of your problems.

Ahem. I guess so. :-)

I would probably put them in my emergency radios, some of which have
been the victims of battery leakage, but it's cheaper and easier to
rotate the batteries or keep them in a plastic bag outside the radio.

They're used that way for emergency EPIRBs. Not Energizer AA sizes of
course, but specially made primary lithium based technology cells.

That pretty much fits me. If it freezes at all, it's never for more than
a day at a time. In the summer it goes up to 100F for a handfull of days.
Abnormally hot is 90F.

I've had use for them. During our last snow trip, I packed with a few sets
of AA lithiums, and used my GPS while sinking knee-deep in soft snow during a
hike.

Incidentally, NiCDs or NiMHs are all but completely useless in these
environments. I wasn't entirely sure how much worse plain alkalines were
going to be, but I didn't take any chances anyway.

Whatever happend to the recharagebale alkalines that Ray-O-Vac came
out with in the U.S. in the mid 1990's? I bought a bunch of them to
use in handheld radios but found that they never performed as well
when recharged as the first time around and eventually gave up.

Like I said in my last message, there are "conditions" attached to their
use. Alkaline chemistry is such that if you flatten it, you will NEVER get a
charge back into it. (Yes, I hear the howls of objections, but you're all
quite free to **** your money into whatever you think works).

You will get best use if you use a bit, charge a bit, use a bit, charge a
bit. They'll last the longest, and is the cheapest technique if you do it
that way.

If you treat them like NiCD/NiMHs you may as well send your money to me, at
least I'll get some good use out of it rather than keep floating a technology
that was never designed to be recharged alive.

I did speak to an engineer at the company and at the time they had
no reliable way of recharging a battery pack. The charger would only
work on single cells, so you had to use AA battery packs and disaassemble
them for each charge.

That's right. I'm biased, and perhaps a charge perfectionist, but you
really do need full and absolute control over an individual cell to charge it
correctly. I'd go so far to say that applies for ANY cell type (even though
NiCD/NiMHs are somewhat lenient in this respect).

By 1996 when I moved here, I had pretty much stopped using them and since the
chargers were never available in 230 volts, left them.

Way back when I first heard about it (about a decade after it was incepted)
chargers of this type did not exist commercially. All the battery labels went
out of their way to say NOT to recharge them as well.
I also knew that carbon battery technologies were not particularly receptive
to this type of charge. (didn't stop me trying though)

I had built my own. I had played with it for a while, but it never got past
the "play" stage. And this was around the era of NiCDs being outrageously
expensive and hard to get. That's how impressed I was. Not.

--
Linux Registered User # 302622
http://counter.li.org

"Geoffrey S. Mendelson" wrote:

John Tserkezis wrote:

Where they come into their own, is abnormally low temperatures (near
freezing in the snow for instance), where their life is about 10x alkalines.

Another area they may be better in is shelf life. You can expect about 10+
years for lithiums, and about 5-7 for alkalines.

The only place I have seen them here was a fan forced gas mask which was
part of an emergency kit given out to civilians in case of a CBW attack.

Good Lord !

What kind of paranoia lead to the that idea ?

Graham

Eeyore wrote:
What kind of paranoia lead to the that idea ?

The Scud missles falling during the first Gulf war and the beginnig
of the second. The daily rocket attacks from Gaza and Lebanon
which continue to this day.

While none of the missles fired on us during the first gulf war
had anything but regular bombs in them, U.S. troops found unused
ones in Iraq with traces of both biolgical and chemical weapons
dumped in the river. There were also tons of radioactive material
that "went missing".

The Iraquis used chemical and bilogical weapons on their own
people in the 1980's so it was a good bet.

Since Saddam used the enemy of my enemy is my friend principle,
it is very likely that any CBW or unfinished nuclear weapons
that were in his country before the second gulf war, ended
up in Syria and Iran.

Geoff.
--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel N3OWJ/4X1GM
IL Voice: (07)-7424-1667 U.S. Voice: 1-215-821-1838
Visit my 'blog at http://geoffstechno.livejournal.com/

On Mon, 27 Aug 2007 19:01:36 -0700, "hr(bob) "
wrote:

I have a pair of Energizer Hi-Energy Lithium batteries that I think
are a pile of junk (to be polite). I don't believe they gave me any
more battery life than a set of regular alkaline batteries. And, they
are not rechargeable according to the fine print which is in red print
on a gold background so that it is impossible to read unless you use a
magnifying lens and a very strong light.

Anyone else have this experience?

H. R. (Bob) Hofmann


In one of my digirtal cameras, Energizer lithium AA last 8 to 10 times
longer than alkaline AAs. Some alkaline brands won't even power up
this camera. Chuck