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Electronics Repair (sci.electronics.repair) Discussion of repairing electronic equipment. Topics include requests for assistance, where to obtain servicing information and parts, techniques for diagnosis and repair, and annecdotes about success, failures and problems. |
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#1
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single ended signal to differential signal?
I posted this a bit earlier in sci.electronics.design, but this list seems
to be more alive at this time of the day: I need to convert a single ended signal to a differential one. Theres is plenty of documentation on the other way ( differential to single ended ) but I am lost regardign info on my problem. Anyone has some info or links to this topic? I need to both amplify the signal and boost it over the line. Any help or suggestion appreciated. |
#2
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single ended signal to differential signal?
In article ,
Rüdiger Leibrandt wrote: I posted this a bit earlier in sci.electronics.design, but this list seems to be more alive at this time of the day: I need to convert a single ended signal to a differential one. Theres is plenty of documentation on the other way ( differential to single ended ) but I am lost regardign info on my problem. Anyone has some info or links to this topic? I need to both amplify the signal and boost it over the line. Any help or suggestion appreciated. Unbalanced to balanced? What is the signal? And just how far are you sending it using which cable? -- *Nostalgia isn't what is used to be. Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#3
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single ended signal to differential signal?
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article , Rüdiger Leibrandt wrote: I posted this a bit earlier in sci.electronics.design, but this list seems to be more alive at this time of the day: I need to convert a single ended signal to a differential one. Theres is plenty of documentation on the other way ( differential to single ended ) but I am lost regardign info on my problem. Anyone has some info or links to this topic? I need to both amplify the signal and boost it over the line. Any help or suggestion appreciated. Unbalanced to balanced? What is the signal? And just how far are you sending it using which cable? Okay: the signal is a few millivolts around 2V, but it can go up to full 5 Volts in the extreme case. The cable used is a category 5 cable, about, I think, 8 meters in length. I'm just the poor guy having to solder it all together, so I can at this time not make much from the terms balanced or unbalanced. With an average of 2V the signal has a definetive offset, and it needs being DC coupled into the TL072 acting as line driver for the differential line. I find no infos on the net for that kind of setup, and it wonders me, for there are tons of scenarios where the reverse is being done. |
#4
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single ended signal to differential signal?
Rüdiger Leibrandt wrote: Dave Plowman (News) wrote: In article , Rüdiger Leibrandt wrote: I posted this a bit earlier in sci.electronics.design, but this list seems to be more alive at this time of the day: I need to convert a single ended signal to a differential one. Theres is plenty of documentation on the other way ( differential to single ended ) but I am lost regardign info on my problem. Anyone has some info or links to this topic? I need to both amplify the signal and boost it over the line. Any help or suggestion appreciated. Unbalanced Single ended to balanced? Differential (audio terminology) What is the signal? And just how far are you sending it using which cable? Okay: the signal is a few millivolts around 2V, but it can go up to full 5 Volts in the extreme case. The cable used is a category 5 cable, about, I think, 8 meters in length. I'm just the poor guy having to solder it all together, so I can at this time not make much from the terms balanced or unbalanced. With an average of 2V the signal has a definetive offset, Is it an AC signal riding on a DC level ? and it needs being DC coupled into the TL072 acting as line driver for the differential line. I find no infos on the net for that kind of setup, and it wonders me, for there are tons of scenarios where the reverse is being done. What kind of signal are you dealing with here ? Graham |
#5
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single ended signal to differential signal?
Rüdiger Leibrandt wrote: and it needs being DC coupled into the TL072 acting as line driver for the differential line. One simple answer is to have another 1/2 TL072 wired as a unity gain inverter driven from the original output, driving the other input of the differential amp. Note the 6dB extra gain you get this way. I'm not entirely clear why this is necessary over only 8 metres of cable run though. Are there interfering signals ? Graham |
#6
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single ended signal to differential signal?
Eeyore wrote:
Rüdiger Leibrandt wrote: Dave Plowman (News) wrote: In article , Rüdiger Leibrandt wrote: I posted this a bit earlier in sci.electronics.design, but this list seems to be more alive at this time of the day: I need to convert a single ended signal to a differential one. Theres is plenty of documentation on the other way ( differential to single ended ) but I am lost regardign info on my problem. Anyone has some info or links to this topic? I need to both amplify the signal and boost it over the line. Any help or suggestion appreciated. Unbalanced Single ended to balanced? Differential (audio terminology) What is the signal? And just how far are you sending it using which cable? Okay: the signal is a few millivolts around 2V, but it can go up to full 5 Volts in the extreme case. The cable used is a category 5 cable, about, I think, 8 meters in length. I'm just the poor guy having to solder it all together, so I can at this time not make much from the terms balanced or unbalanced. With an average of 2V the signal has a definetive offset, Is it an AC signal riding on a DC level ? and it needs being DC coupled into the TL072 acting as line driver for the differential line. I find no infos on the net for that kind of setup, and it wonders me, for there are tons of scenarios where the reverse is being done. What kind of signal are you dealing with here ? Graham There is the basic concept: http://www.aries.homeftp.net/publish...cs/concept.jpg The opamp on the right side is just to symbolize the input of the PC-card where the sampling takes place. It's software can control the impedance and other aspects of the cards inputs. The signal is from a K-Band Transceiver, a small radar. And the noise I get on the lines that run through a room filled with servers is enough to add so much ambient noise that single opamp "boosted signals" contain too much noise than to make use of the values received, for then stronger signals would produce clipping. |
#7
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single ended signal to differential signal?
Rüdiger Leibrandt wrote: Eeyore wrote: Rüdiger Leibrandt wrote: Dave Plowman (News) wrote: Rüdiger Leibrandt wote I posted this a bit earlier in sci.electronics.design, but this list seems to be more alive at this time of the day: I need to convert a single ended signal to a differential one. Theres is plenty of documentation on the other way ( differential to single ended ) but I am lost regardign info on my problem. Anyone has some info or links to this topic? I need to both amplify the signal and boost it over the line. Any help or suggestion appreciated. Unbalanced Single ended to balanced? Differential (audio terminology) What is the signal? And just how far are you sending it using which cable? Okay: the signal is a few millivolts around 2V, but it can go up to full 5 Volts in the extreme case. The cable used is a category 5 cable, about, I think, 8 meters in length. I'm just the poor guy having to solder it all together, so I can at this time not make much from the terms balanced or unbalanced. With an average of 2V the signal has a definetive offset, Is it an AC signal riding on a DC level ? and it needs being DC coupled into the TL072 acting as line driver for the differential line. I find no infos on the net for that kind of setup, and it wonders me, for there are tons of scenarios where the reverse is being done. What kind of signal are you dealing with here ? Graham There is the basic concept: http://www.aries.homeftp.net/publish...cs/concept.jpg The opamp on the right side is just to symbolize the input of the PC-card where the sampling takes place. It's software can control the impedance and other aspects of the cards inputs. The signal is from a K-Band Transceiver, a small radar. And the noise I get on the lines that run through a room filled with servers is enough to add so much ambient noise that single opamp "boosted signals" contain too much noise than to make use of the values received, for then stronger signals would produce clipping. I understand. What is the bandwidth of the signal ? Is it purely an AC signal or do you *need* DC coupling ? Graham |
#8
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single ended signal to differential signal?
=?ISO-8859-15?Q?R=FCdiger?= Leibrandt ) writes:
I posted this a bit earlier in sci.electronics.design, but this list seems to be more alive at this time of the day: Then you ask where it belongs, in sci.electronics.basics THis isn't about basics, this isn't about design, this newsgroup is about the repair of electronic equipment. Read Mark Zenier's guide to the hierarchy before you mispost again: ftp://ftp.eskimo.com/u/m/mzenier/seguide9706.txt MIchael |
#9
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single ended signal to differential signal?
Okay - the last word after a lot of datasheet reading is now a MAX435 - it's
a wideband Transconductance Amplifier. I just need to find out how to give it a variable gain without ruining the impedance of it's output, and then I am fine. Thank you all very much for the help you provided to me! |
#10
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single ended signal to differential signal?
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#11
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single ended signal to differential signal?
Rüdiger Leibrandt wrote: Okay - the last word after a lot of datasheet reading is now a MAX435 - it's a wideband Transconductance Amplifier. This is not ideally suited to this task. Graham |
#12
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single ended signal to differential signal?
Michael....
Not so fast here ! .... let us not get so specialized and so quickly send people off to other newsgroups. There are plenty of folks on this "repair" newsgroup that are not only qualified to answer these types of "design" questions but also are very happy to contribute. Most repair techs have always had some design and installation experience and can many times propose a simple, practical and workable solution that some design people sometimes ignore in favor of a more complicated, engineering eloquent and troublesome solution. Daniel Sofie Electronics Supply & Repair - - - - - - - - - - snipped: "Michael Black" wrote in message ... you ask where it belongs, in sci.electronics.basics THis isn't about basics, this isn't about design, this newsgroup is about the repair of electronic equipment. Read Mark Zenier's guide to the hierarchy before you mispost again: ftp://ftp.eskimo.com/u/m/mzenier/seguide9706.txt MIchael |
#13
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single ended signal to differential signal?
In article ,
Rüdiger Leibrandt wrote: Unbalanced to balanced? What is the signal? And just how far are you sending it using which cable? Okay: the signal is a few millivolts around 2V, but it can go up to full 5 Volts in the extreme case. The cable used is a category 5 cable, about, I think, 8 meters in length. I'm just the poor guy having to solder it all together, so I can at this time not make much from the terms balanced or unbalanced. With an average of 2V the signal has a definetive offset, and it needs being DC coupled into the TL072 acting as line driver for the differential line. I find no infos on the net for that kind of setup, and it wonders me, for there are tons of scenarios where the reverse is being done. You still haven't said what the signal is. Audio? Video? SHF? ;-) -- *I used to have an open mind but my brains kept falling out * Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#14
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single ended signal to differential signal?
"Rüdiger Leibrandt" wrote in message
... I posted this a bit earlier in sci.electronics.design, but this list seems to be more alive at this time of the day: I need to convert a single ended signal to a differential one. Theres is plenty of documentation on the other way ( differential to single ended ) but I am lost regardign info on my problem. Anyone has some info or links to this topic? I need to both amplify the signal and boost it over the line. Any help or suggestion appreciated. Take a look at the Analog Devices SSM2142 Balanced Line Driver (http://www.analog.com/en/prod/0,,765...SM2142,00.html) for the single-ended to balanced line (differential) function. AD also has a mating differential line receiver, the SSM2141 High Common-Mode Rejection Differential Line Receiver at (http://www.analog.com/en/prod/0,2877,SSM2141,00.html). These units are quite good at handling high common-mode signals (induced noise). Since you haven't mentioned the exact nature of your signal, such as frequency range, required gain and gain accuracy, etc, I'm assuming that it's in the audio range, and gain accuracy is a secondary consideration. These two units are designed specifically for professional quality audio equipment, and will easily fit that requirement. If your signal requirements are different, such as video, digital, etc, then you need to come back to us for a more meaningful answer. We can't give precise answers to ambiguous questions. -- Dave M MasonDG44 at comcast dot net (Just substitute the appropriate characters in the address) Life is like a roll of toilet paper; the closer to the end, the faster it goes. |
#15
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single ended signal to differential signal?
On 18 Apr, 09:44, Rüdiger Leibrandt
wrote: I posted this a bit earlier in sci.electronics.design, but this list seems to be more alive at this time of the day: I need to convert a single ended signal to a differential one. Theres is plenty of documentation on the other way ( differential to single ended ) but I am lost regardign info on my problem. Anyone has some info or links to this topic? I need to both amplify the signal and boost it over the line. Any help or suggestion appreciated. I dont think youre giving the required information, its all very unclear, both here and in your follow up. So I'll just mention a general principle: interference can be more or less wiped out by reducing line driver impedance. With low impedance drive, runs far longer than 8m are possible with single ended signals. Opamps do not give as low z output as would be ideal. If your signal is in the af band, an audio amplifier may be a simple low cost way to get R_out in the region of an ohm or less. NT |
#16
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single ended signal to differential signal?
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article , Rüdiger Leibrandt wrote: Unbalanced to balanced? What is the signal? And just how far are you sending it using which cable? Okay: the signal is a few millivolts around 2V, but it can go up to full 5 Volts in the extreme case. The cable used is a category 5 cable, about, I think, 8 meters in length. I'm just the poor guy having to solder it all together, so I can at this time not make much from the terms balanced or unbalanced. With an average of 2V the signal has a definetive offset, and it needs being DC coupled into the TL072 acting as line driver for the differential line. I find no infos on the net for that kind of setup, and it wonders me, for there are tons of scenarios where the reverse is being done. You still haven't said what the signal is. Audio? Video? SHF? ;-) It's a radar - The frequency varies with the speed of items approaching or moving away, the distance they are away, and such stuff - its a tiny doppler-radar. I have - honestly no clue, for there is no information upon the maximum frequency-shift in this manual, nor does my boss know what things he actually wants to focus on. It is a InnoSent IVS24-2-4-2-162 K-Band VCO Trasceiver The MAX will do it's job pretty well - DC coupled and capable to transmit up to 200MHz - more our digitizer-card cannot handle anyway. |
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