bad ground = phone hum?
There is a heavy wire running from the outside phone box (company side)
to a big spike in the ground. I clipped that with hedge clippers some years ago, then I repaired the break merely by twisting the ends back together and that worked okay for many years.. Today there is a bad, constant hum on all phones. When I plugged a phone into the outside box jack, the hum was the same. It has also been raining for several days. Can a bad ground cause a hum? Vigorously shaking the ground wire caused no static. What should I expect if I disconnected the ground entirely? (As I write this, I'm thinking maybe with corrosion the path to ground is now non-existent.) Also, there was a wasp nest in the customer side of the outside box (but not in the company side). The nest didn't seem to create any obvious destruction, though. If I connect a phone to the jack on the customer side, then the nest seems to have no involvement anyway since the terminals on that side become irrelevant - but you never know. |
bad ground = phone hum?
" wrote in message
roups.com: There is a heavy wire running from the outside phone box (company side) to a big spike in the ground. I clipped that with hedge clippers some years ago, then I repaired the break merely by twisting the ends back together and that worked okay for many years.. Today there is a bad, constant hum on all phones. When I plugged a phone into the outside box jack, the hum was the same. It has also been raining for several days. Can a bad ground cause a hum? Vigorously shaking the ground wire caused no static. What should I expect if I disconnected the ground entirely? (As I write this, I'm thinking maybe with corrosion the path to ground is now non-existent.) Also, there was a wasp nest in the customer side of the outside box (but not in the company side). The nest didn't seem to create any obvious destruction, though. If I connect a phone to the jack on the customer side, then the nest seems to have no involvement anyway since the terminals on that side become irrelevant - but you never know. Phone lines are not (supposed to be) grounded, and generally are not shielded either - being run as twisted pairs is all the noise protection they usually need. The ground wire you cut is for lightning protection. When you tested at the customer-side jack in the NID (Network Interface Device) box and still heard hum, was this with all lines leading into the house disconnected? (Usually the same jack that you tested at will have a plug in it that connects/disconnects all inside lines.) If not, check it again with inside lines disconnected and see if that makes a difference. If disconnecting your house lines doesn't clear up the hum, it's the phone company's problem. -- -------------------- Alan "A.J." Franzman Email: a.j.franzman [ A T ] verizon [ D O T ] net -------------------- |
bad ground = phone hum?
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bad ground = phone hum?
As others have noted, grey telephone box (NID) contains a surge
protector that is effective if earthing connection exists. Phone will work with or without earthing wire. But without that wire, then human and transistors are both at risk and phone installation violates code. Telephone installations must have that 'whole house' type protector and earthing. Earthing wire must be continuous, no splices, not bundled with other wires, short (ie 'less than 10 feet'), and connected to same earthing electrode used by AC electric and cable company ground wire. As others noted, you want that earthing wire corrected - and without a splice. Hum may be from a partially damaged surge protector inside NID. Determine whether hum is inside house or in NID box. By doing as Alan has recommended, open 'Customer access' side where your wire connects to their box via RJ11 phone plug. Simply disconnect your wire and plug a telephone directly into that phone jack. If hum is heard, then problem is on telco and they pay. Otherwise problem is on your wires and you pay (or fix it yourself). That 10 AWG earthing wire (they are responsible for it) must be fixed. But first determine where problem exists - on your side or theirs. wrote: There is a heavy wire running from the outside phone box (company side) to a big spike in the ground. I clipped that with hedge clippers some years ago, then I repaired the break merely by twisting the ends back together and that worked okay for many years.. Today there is a bad, constant hum on all phones. When I plugged a phone into the outside box jack, the hum was the same. It has also been raining for several days. Can a bad ground cause a hum? Vigorously shaking the ground wire caused no static. What should I expect if I disconnected the ground entirely? (As I write this, I'm thinking maybe with corrosion the path to ground is now non-existent.) ... |
bad ground = phone hum?
w_tom wrote: As others have noted, grey telephone box (NID) contains a surge protector that is effective if earthing connection exists. Phone will work with or without earthing wire. But without that wire, then human and transistors are both at risk and phone installation violates code. Telephone installations must have that 'whole house' type protector and earthing. Earthing wire must be continuous, no splices, not bundled with other wires, short (ie 'less than 10 feet'), and connected to same earthing electrode used by AC electric and cable company ground wire. As others noted, you want that earthing wire corrected - and without a splice. Hum may be from a partially damaged surge protector inside NID. Determine whether hum is inside house or in NID box. By doing as Alan has recommended, open 'Customer access' side where your wire connects to their box via RJ11 phone plug. Simply disconnect your wire and plug a telephone directly into that phone jack. If hum is heard, then problem is on telco and they pay. Otherwise problem is on your wires and you pay (or fix it yourself). Thanks to all who replied. I did do as you say, on the first day. The hum was the same when plugged into the NID. I called the telco while outside in the drizzle, and still plugged into that NID jack. The customer rep told me that someone would arrive the next day, and if they plugged into the outside jack and there was no hum, I'd get charged $99 for the visit. I said that the problem might be gone the next day, which was forecasted to be dry and sunny - so I told her not to send anybody. That decision saved me the $99. By 11am the next day, the hum was gone. But the day after that was rainy again, and the hum was back. I disconnected and reconnected the ground, which had no effect whatsoever. Next, I fiddled with the wires inside the NID. Then the phone was clear. A half hour later, the hum was back. I removed the plug and sprayed electronic cleaner into the jack. (Note that wasps had made a nest inside, since abandoned - but there could be some fine organic material all over.) The noise came and went with no rhyme or reason on that day, but was gone the following day. There have been some slight rains since, with no hum. I guess I have to wait for bad rains, and try to schedule a visit while it is still in the rain period. It's a crap shoot. In the meantime, where could I get the exact same grey wire that the telco uses for ground? I don't want to one day have them show up and charge me a small fortune to redo it. Thanks. That 10 AWG earthing wire (they are responsible for it) must be fixed. But first determine where problem exists - on your side or theirs. wrote: There is a heavy wire running from the outside phone box (company side) to a big spike in the ground. I clipped that with hedge clippers some years ago, then I repaired the break merely by twisting the ends back together and that worked okay for many years.. Today there is a bad, constant hum on all phones. When I plugged a phone into the outside box jack, the hum was the same. It has also been raining for several days. Can a bad ground cause a hum? Vigorously shaking the ground wire caused no static. What should I expect if I disconnected the ground entirely? (As I write this, I'm thinking maybe with corrosion the path to ground is now non-existent.) ... |
bad ground = phone hum?
wrote:
w_tom wrote: As others have noted, grey telephone box (NID) contains a surge protector that is effective if earthing connection exists. Phone will work with or without earthing wire. But without that wire, then human and transistors are both at risk and phone installation violates code. Telephone installations must have that 'whole house' type protector and earthing. Earthing wire must be continuous, no splices, not bundled with other wires, short (ie 'less than 10 feet'), and connected to same earthing electrode used by AC electric and cable company ground wire. As others noted, you want that earthing wire corrected - and without a splice. Hum may be from a partially damaged surge protector inside NID. Determine whether hum is inside house or in NID box. By doing as Alan has recommended, open 'Customer access' side where your wire connects to their box via RJ11 phone plug. Simply disconnect your wire and plug a telephone directly into that phone jack. If hum is heard, then problem is on telco and they pay. Otherwise problem is on your wires and you pay (or fix it yourself). Thanks to all who replied. I did do as you say, on the first day. The hum was the same when plugged into the NID. I called the telco while outside in the drizzle, and still plugged into that NID jack. The customer rep told me that someone would arrive the next day, and if they plugged into the outside jack and there was no hum, I'd get charged $99 for the visit. I said that the problem might be gone the next day, which was forecasted to be dry and sunny - so I told her not to send anybody. That decision saved me the $99. By 11am the next day, the hum was gone. But the day after that was rainy again, and the hum was back. I disconnected and reconnected the ground, which had no effect whatsoever. Next, I fiddled with the wires inside the NID. Then the phone was clear. A half hour later, the hum was back. I removed the plug and sprayed electronic cleaner into the jack. (Note that wasps had made a nest inside, since abandoned - but there could be some fine organic material all over.) The noise came and went with no rhyme or reason on that day, but was gone the following day. There have been some slight rains since, with no hum. I guess I have to wait for bad rains, and try to schedule a visit while it is still in the rain period. It's a crap shoot. In the meantime, where could I get the exact same grey wire that the telco uses for ground? I don't want to one day have them show up and charge me a small fortune to redo it. Thanks. That 10 AWG earthing wire (they are responsible for it) must be fixed. But first determine where problem exists - on your side or theirs. wrote: There is a heavy wire running from the outside phone box (company side) to a big spike in the ground. I clipped that with hedge clippers some years ago, then I repaired the break merely by twisting the ends back together and that worked okay for many years.. Today there is a bad, constant hum on all phones. When I plugged a phone into the outside box jack, the hum was the same. It has also been raining for several days. Can a bad ground cause a hum? Vigorously shaking the ground wire caused no static. What should I expect if I disconnected the ground entirely? (As I write this, I'm thinking maybe with corrosion the path to ground is now non-existent.) ... I had a problem last week with my NID. Water got inside and corroded some of the connections. This caused the line to hang itself up after on incoming calls after the first ring. Tightening all connections and cleaning out the corrosion fixed it. I'll check the gasket when I have more time, and spray some Water Displacement (40) around inside.... jak |
bad ground = phone hum?
Grounding wire is typically gray or green. If green, then 10 AWG is
in Home Depot, Lowes, or any electrical supply company. But that ground wire is their responsibility. You don't pay anything for them to fix their ground wire. However verify or install an 8+' earthing rod before they fix their wire. That 8 foot electrode (or network of electrodes) should make a 'less than 10 foot' connection to NID as well as to breaker box and cable TV. You provide a preferred earthing electrode that already earths AC breaker box. Sometimes a telco lineman can detect failures with a tester. Problem that would not be apparent on your phone (during dry days) can sometimes appear as leakage to earth on his tester. Business office will recite reams of rules such as who pays that $99. But a lineman is typically good about finding a problem even when noise does not exist today. Good as long as he gets details from you and not from the business office. Generally, a lineman will inspect your wire back to the CO even if reason for noise is not apparent. Some problems can only be located by inspection. However some telcos are now instituting cost controls. If a lineman gets the call too late in his day, he may simply declare the wire good without inspecting. Executives give him hell for doing overtime to complete a job. Therefore he may sign off on the job early. This problem created when business school trained managers (who never worked as linemen) know better. Sounds like water is dripping into a splice somewhere back towards the CO. All wires should enter a junction box by dropping down below, then rising up from beneath. If not, then even a taped wire will conduct water 'hum destructively' into a splice. Verify that every wire into that NID comes up from below. Verify that no tapes over wires are exposed to the weather. wrote: Thanks to all who replied. I did do as you say, on the first day. The hum was the same when plugged into the NID. I called the telco while outside in the drizzle, and still plugged into that NID jack. The customer rep told me that someone would arrive the next day, and if they plugged into the outside jack and there was no hum, I'd get charged $99 for the visit. I said that the problem might be gone the next day, which was forecasted to be dry and sunny - so I told her not to send anybody. That decision saved me the $99. By 11am the next day, the hum was gone. But the day after that was rainy again, and the hum was back. I disconnected and reconnected the ground, which had no effect whatsoever. Next, I fiddled with the wires inside the NID. Then the phone was clear. A half hour later, the hum was back. I removed the plug and sprayed electronic cleaner into the jack. (Note that wasps had made a nest inside, since abandoned - but there could be some fine organic material all over.) The noise came and went with no rhyme or reason on that day, but was gone the following day. There have been some slight rains since, with no hum. I guess I have to wait for bad rains, and try to schedule a visit while it is still in the rain period. It's a crap shoot. In the meantime, where could I get the exact same grey wire that the telco uses for ground? I don't want to one day have them show up and charge me a small fortune to redo it. Thanks. |
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