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Products specifying alkaline batteries
I have an electronic scale that uses a 9v battery and it says "use alkaline
batteries only". I prefer to use rechargeable NiMH batteries. How can the product tell the difference (or can it) and what would be the problem, if any, of using non-alkaline batteries in such a product. Thanks, noozer |
Products specifying alkaline batteries
BE wrote in
: I have an electronic scale that uses a 9v battery and it says "use alkaline batteries only". I prefer to use rechargeable NiMH batteries. How can the product tell the difference (or can it) and what would be the problem, if any, of using non-alkaline batteries in such a product. Thanks, noozer Rechargable batteries tend to have a lower voltage than non-rechargable, so the voltage difference might cause trouble. My guess is the "Use alkaline batteries only" is there because the manufacturer knows the device likes to eat batteries for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. Puckdropper -- Wise is the man who attempts to answer his question before asking it. To email me directly, send a message to puckdropper (at) fastmail.fm |
Products specifying alkaline batteries
Meat Plow ) writes:
On Wed, 11 Oct 2006 14:47:28 +0000, BE Has Frothed: I have an electronic scale that uses a 9v battery and it says "use alkaline batteries only". I prefer to use rechargeable NiMH batteries. How can the product tell the difference (or can it) and what would be the problem, if any, of using non-alkaline batteries in such a product. Thanks, noozer As they discharge, the voltage drops off more linear in an alkaline. The rechargable stays more constant then drops off rapidly. Hence the scale will operate longer on an alkaline. Maybe more important, rechargeables don't start with the same voltage level as fresh alkalines, and if the unit counts on the voltage being above a certain point, the useable "life" of the rechargeable will not be so long (though of course, they can be recharged). I used to have something, it might have been my Radio Shack Model 100 laptop, that I used rechargeables in, and they sure didn't last as long as alkalines. On the other hand, the rechargeables could be recharged so I got more long term life out of them than the alkalines. Michael |
Products specifying alkaline batteries
BE wrote:
I have an electronic scale that uses a 9v battery and it says "use alkaline batteries only". I prefer to use rechargeable NiMH batteries. How can the product tell the difference (or can it) and what would be the problem, if any, of using non-alkaline batteries in such a product. Hi... The voltage of a brand new alkaline is 1.5 volts. The voltage of a freshly charged nimh or nicd is 1.2 volts. The likelihood is that your scale will see the 1.2 volts, and decide that the battery is due for replacement - at worst refuse to operate; at best tell you to change the battery. Take care. Ken |
Products specifying alkaline batteries
"Puckdropper" wrote in message reenews.net... BE wrote in : I have an electronic scale that uses a 9v battery and it says "use alkaline batteries only". I prefer to use rechargeable NiMH batteries. How can the product tell the difference (or can it) and what would be the problem, if any, of using non-alkaline batteries in such a product. Thanks, noozer Rechargable batteries tend to have a lower voltage than non-rechargable, so the voltage difference might cause trouble. My guess is the "Use alkaline batteries only" is there because the manufacturer knows the device likes to eat batteries for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. Puckdropper -- Wise is the man who attempts to answer his question before asking it. To email me directly, send a message to puckdropper (at) fastmail.fm Or pehaps the current drain is so low that alkalines will last for years, and rechargables will self discharge in days to weeks. For low drain devices like clocks, calculators, and scales with LCD displays, or other infrequently used devices, rechargables do not really make sense. Alkalines have a shelf life of several years. CK |
Products specifying alkaline batteries
In article ews.net,
Puckdropper wrote: Rechargable batteries tend to have a lower voltage than non-rechargable, so the voltage difference might cause trouble. My guess is the "Use alkaline batteries only" is there because the manufacturer knows the device likes to eat batteries for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. However, the terminal usable voltage of an alkaline will be very similar to that of a Ni-Cad, etc. -- *Succeed, in spite of management * Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
Products specifying alkaline batteries
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote: In article ews.net, Puckdropper wrote: Rechargable batteries tend to have a lower voltage than non-rechargable, so the voltage difference might cause trouble. My guess is the "Use alkaline batteries only" is there because the manufacturer knows the device likes to eat batteries for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. However, the terminal usable voltage of an alkaline will be very similar to that of a Ni-Cad, etc. I discovered recently that Duracell quote battery lifetime to 50% of initial voltage ! Any rechargeable will be far better. Graham |
Products specifying alkaline batteries
Ken Weitzel wrote: BE wrote: I have an electronic scale that uses a 9v battery and it says "use alkaline batteries only". I prefer to use rechargeable NiMH batteries. How can the product tell the difference (or can it) and what would be the problem, if any, of using non-alkaline batteries in such a product. Hi... The voltage of a brand new alkaline is 1.5 volts. The voltage of a freshly charged nimh or nicd is 1.2 volts. The likelihood is that your scale will see the 1.2 volts, and decide that the battery is due for replacement - at worst refuse to operate; at best tell you to change the battery. According to Duracell, an alkaline battery isn't dead until it reaches 0.75V ! Incidentally, you can get '9V' alkalines with 7 or 8 cells ( 8.4 or 9.6 V ). Graham |
Products specifying alkaline batteries
Eeyore wrote:
Ken Weitzel wrote: BE wrote: I have an electronic scale that uses a 9v battery and it says "use alkaline batteries only". I prefer to use rechargeable NiMH batteries. How can the product tell the difference (or can it) and what would be the problem, if any, of using non-alkaline batteries in such a product. Hi... The voltage of a brand new alkaline is 1.5 volts. The voltage of a freshly charged nimh or nicd is 1.2 volts. The likelihood is that your scale will see the 1.2 volts, and decide that the battery is due for replacement - at worst refuse to operate; at best tell you to change the battery. According to Duracell, an alkaline battery isn't dead until it reaches 0.75V ! Incidentally, you can get '9V' alkalines with 7 or 8 cells ( 8.4 or 9.6 V ). You mean NiCd? Most "9V" rechareables are 7.2V. 9V alkaline batteries consist of 6 1.5V cells which add up to an even 9V. |
Products specifying alkaline batteries
Meat Plow wrote in
: On Wed, 11 Oct 2006 14:47:28 +0000, BE Has Frothed: I have an electronic scale that uses a 9v battery and it says "use alkaline batteries only". I prefer to use rechargeable NiMH batteries. How can the product tell the difference (or can it) and what would be the problem, if any, of using non-alkaline batteries in such a product. Thanks, noozer As they discharge, the voltage drops off more linear in an alkaline. The rechargable stays more constant then drops off rapidly. Hence the scale will operate longer on an alkaline. Does anyone MAKE a "9V" NiMH battery? -- Jim Yanik jyanik at kua.net |
Products specifying alkaline batteries
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Products specifying alkaline batteries
"CJK" wrote in
: "Puckdropper" wrote in message reenews.net... BE wrote in : I have an electronic scale that uses a 9v battery and it says "use alkaline batteries only". I prefer to use rechargeable NiMH batteries. How can the product tell the difference (or can it) and what would be the problem, if any, of using non-alkaline batteries in such a product. Thanks, noozer Rechargable batteries tend to have a lower voltage than non-rechargable, so the voltage difference might cause trouble. My guess is the "Use alkaline batteries only" is there because the manufacturer knows the device likes to eat batteries for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. Puckdropper -- Wise is the man who attempts to answer his question before asking it. To email me directly, send a message to puckdropper (at) fastmail.fm Or pehaps the current drain is so low that alkalines will last for years, and rechargables will self discharge in days to weeks. For low drain devices like clocks, calculators, and scales with LCD displays, or other infrequently used devices, rechargables do not really make sense. Alkalines have a shelf life of several years. CK Very good point! -- Jim Yanik jyanik at kua.net |
Products specifying alkaline batteries
Ken Weitzel wrote in
news:vL9Xg.123066$5R2.19152@pd7urf3no: BE wrote: I have an electronic scale that uses a 9v battery and it says "use alkaline batteries only". I prefer to use rechargeable NiMH batteries. How can the product tell the difference (or can it) and what would be the problem, if any, of using non-alkaline batteries in such a product. Hi... The voltage of a brand new alkaline is 1.5 volts. The voltage of a freshly charged nimh or nicd is 1.2 volts. actually,it's more like 1.4v -- Jim Yanik jyanik at kua.net |
Products specifying alkaline batteries
James Sweet wrote: Eeyore wrote: Ken Weitzel wrote: BE wrote: I have an electronic scale that uses a 9v battery and it says "use alkaline batteries only". I prefer to use rechargeable NiMH batteries. How can the product tell the difference (or can it) and what would be the problem, if any, of using non-alkaline batteries in such a product. Hi... The voltage of a brand new alkaline is 1.5 volts. The voltage of a freshly charged nimh or nicd is 1.2 volts. The likelihood is that your scale will see the 1.2 volts, and decide that the battery is due for replacement - at worst refuse to operate; at best tell you to change the battery. According to Duracell, an alkaline battery isn't dead until it reaches 0.75V ! Incidentally, you can get '9V' alkalines with 7 or 8 cells ( 8.4 or 9.6 V ). You mean NiCd? Most "9V" rechareables are 7.2V. 9V alkaline batteries consist of 6 1.5V cells which add up to an even 9V. NiMH. I don't know what made me type alkaline ! I have one right here that I recharged a month or two ago and its current terminal voltage is 8.99V. Graham |
Products specifying alkaline batteries
Jim Yanik wrote: Meat Plow wrote On Wed, 11 Oct 2006 14:47:28 +0000, BE Has Frothed: I have an electronic scale that uses a 9v battery and it says "use alkaline batteries only". I prefer to use rechargeable NiMH batteries. How can the product tell the difference (or can it) and what would be the problem, if any, of using non-alkaline batteries in such a product. Thanks, noozer As they discharge, the voltage drops off more linear in an alkaline. The rechargable stays more constant then drops off rapidly. Hence the scale will operate longer on an alkaline. Does anyone MAKE a "9V" NiMH battery? I have one in front of me ( a cheapie ) that I recharged a month or two back. It currently measures 8.99V. Graham |
Products specifying alkaline batteries
Jim Yanik wrote: Ken Weitzel wrote BE wrote: I have an electronic scale that uses a 9v battery and it says "use alkaline batteries only". I prefer to use rechargeable NiMH batteries. How can the product tell the difference (or can it) and what would be the problem, if any, of using non-alkaline batteries in such a product. Hi... The voltage of a brand new alkaline is 1.5 volts. The voltage of a freshly charged nimh or nicd is 1.2 volts. actually,it's more like 1.4v 1.3 but not for long. Graham |
Products specifying alkaline batteries
On 10/11/06 6:52 PM, in article ,
"Jim Yanik" wrote: Meat Plow wrote in : On Wed, 11 Oct 2006 14:47:28 +0000, BE Has Frothed: I have an electronic scale that uses a 9v battery and it says "use alkaline batteries only". I prefer to use rechargeable NiMH batteries. How can the product tell the difference (or can it) and what would be the problem, if any, of using non-alkaline batteries in such a product. Thanks, noozer As they discharge, the voltage drops off more linear in an alkaline. The rechargable stays more constant then drops off rapidly. Hence the scale will operate longer on an alkaline. Does anyone MAKE a "9V" NiMH battery? I just bought several Energizer Rechargeable "9v" batteries (NiMH) and, thanks to a previous post, I looked at the fine print and, yes, it is actually 7.2volts! It says: "Size 9v" - so they can claim it is a 9v battery due to the loose use of the term "9v" to indicate a "size" rather than a power potential. Why would the makers of these rechargeables make them not truly match the voltage they are supposed to be? noozer |
Products specifying alkaline batteries
BE ) writes:
On 10/11/06 6:52 PM, in article , "Jim Yanik" wrote: Meat Plow wrote in : On Wed, 11 Oct 2006 14:47:28 +0000, BE Has Frothed: I have an electronic scale that uses a 9v battery and it says "use alkaline batteries only". I prefer to use rechargeable NiMH batteries. How can the product tell the difference (or can it) and what would be the problem, if any, of using non-alkaline batteries in such a product. Thanks, noozer As they discharge, the voltage drops off more linear in an alkaline. The rechargable stays more constant then drops off rapidly. Hence the scale will operate longer on an alkaline. Does anyone MAKE a "9V" NiMH battery? I just bought several Energizer Rechargeable "9v" batteries (NiMH) and, thanks to a previous post, I looked at the fine print and, yes, it is actually 7.2volts! It says: "Size 9v" - so they can claim it is a 9v battery due to the loose use of the term "9v" to indicate a "size" rather than a power potential. Why would the makers of these rechargeables make them not truly match the voltage they are supposed to be? Because it's a chemical matter. A cell puts out about 1.5v. If you need more voltage, you combine them. So when the need for 9v batteries came along, they had to combine six cells in the package. Or maybe they decided on package size, and then picked a voltage that would fit the package. Open up a 9v battery, and you'll see six invidual cells. In some, it's 6 sort of lumps, but in others it's sort of like skinny AAA cells inside. If they needed more voltage, they'd have to add more cells, and the package would be bigger for the same amount of current. Nicads put out about 1.2v. That too is a chemical issue. The only way they can get a higher voltage is by combining cells in the same package, but that cuts current capacity (since the cells would be smaller), and results in not the needed 1.5v but 2.4 volts. So when they combine 6 nicad cells in a "9v battery" package, 6 * 1.2 =7.2volts. Again, the only way to fix that is by putting mroe cells inside that package, and while that's more feasible than with a straight AA cell, it forces each to be a physically smaller cell and that likely impacts on the current the whole thing can supply. In some cases, equipment has been designed with all this in mind. The battery compartment will be big enough to accomodate more batteries than the needed voltage would require in alkaline batteries. So that old CB walkie talkie would have a place for 10 AA batteries, so if they are nicads it gets 12v. It would then come with a pair of dummy AAs, that merely fill space and provide contact end to end, so when using alkaline AAs you would simply put in 10 AAs and the dummies, and still get 12volts. Michael |
Products specifying alkaline batteries
BE wrote: "Jim Yanik" wrote: Does anyone MAKE a "9V" NiMH battery? I just bought several Energizer Rechargeable "9v" batteries (NiMH) and, thanks to a previous post, I looked at the fine print and, yes, it is actually 7.2volts! It says: "Size 9v" - so they can claim it is a 9v battery due to the loose use of the term "9v" to indicate a "size" rather than a power potential. Why would the makers of these rechargeables make them not truly match the voltage they are supposed to be? Because they like fat profits ? Buy the chaep ones instead. I did and it is actually 9V. Graham |
Products specifying alkaline batteries
In article ,
BE wrote: I just bought several Energizer Rechargeable "9v" batteries (NiMH) and, thanks to a previous post, I looked at the fine print and, yes, it is actually 7.2volts! It says: "Size 9v" - so they can claim it is a 9v battery due to the loose use of the term "9v" to indicate a "size" rather than a power potential. Why would the makers of these rechargeables make them not truly match the voltage they are supposed to be? Because upping the number of cells within the same package may not result in any real benefits. Indeed, apart from increasing the cost, it may end up with a lower capacity. It depends on how sensitive the device is to voltages at the lower end of what an alkaline cell produces. -- *According to my calculations, the problem doesn't exist. Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
Products specifying alkaline batteries
In article , Eeyore
wrote: I just bought several Energizer Rechargeable "9v" batteries (NiMH) and, thanks to a previous post, I looked at the fine print and, yes, it is actually 7.2volts! It says: "Size 9v" - so they can claim it is a 9v battery due to the loose use of the term "9v" to indicate a "size" rather than a power potential. Why would the makers of these rechargeables make them not truly match the voltage they are supposed to be? Because they like fat profits ? Buy the chaep ones instead. I did and it is actually 9V. If you're talking Ni-Cads or NiMH, it's unlikely to be a 8 cell PP3 if cheap. The initial open circuit voltage of a Ni-Cad is pretty irrelevant. After a short time under load it will settle at 1.2v per cell and stay there for most of the usable range. Alkalines are dying from the second they're used. ;-) -- *Why don't you ever see the headline "Psychic Wins Lottery"? Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
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