Epson Printers ...
 

Hi all

I am never EVER going to buy another printer from Epson. For years I used
HPs without any problem at all. I then changed to an Epson on the grounds
that the cartridges were cheaper to buy, because the heads weren't built in.
First mistake. The heads used to clog up on a regular basis. OK, it was a
cheap printer, so eventually I threw it away. Stupidly, I allowed a salesman
to talk me into another much more sophisticated model, which had card slots
for printing off my photos. And what does this one do ? Right ... the heads
clog about once a week.

This morning, as I was printing off a circuit diagram, I watched as the
stupid piece of ****e clogged on the black half way through the print. If I
was using garbage inks or refills, I might be able to understand it, but I
have ALWAYS used the genuine article right from the day it came out of the
box.

Of course, there's always the cleaning program. Yeah, right ...

This piece of software is such CRAP, that it can only do ALL of the heads at
once. It usually takes anything up to FOUR runs of this rotten program to
clear a clogged head. Each run uses about a gallon of ink, so by the time
you've got the black unclogged, you've also sprayed about 10 quids worth of
Mag Yell and Cyan into the bottom of the printer for no good reason other
than making the time a bit closer when you've got to line Epson's pocket
again for some more of their ludicrously priced dye.

I read somewhere the other day that home printer ink is the most expensive
fluid on the planet. I can vouch for that.

So, am I just being unlucky, or has anyone else had similar problems ? This
one's close to being drop kicked down the garden ...

Arfa

"Arfa Daily" wrote in message ...
So, am I just being unlucky, or has anyone else had similar problems ? This
one's close to being drop kicked down the garden ...

We've been running a half dozen newer Epsons (R300's, R800's
etc) and haven't had a single clog on any of them.

Are you shaking the ink cartridges several times before installing
them? If not, you're supposed to. That gets rid of air pockets
in the cartridges and settles the ink to the bottom.

Also, are you using a power strip to turn the printer off? If so,
you're bypassing the head seals, and that will cause a problem.

Hello, Peter!
You wrote on Tue, 27 Sep 2005 09:06:29 GMT:

P "Arfa Daily" wrote in message
...
?? So, am I just being unlucky, or has anyone else had similar problems ?
?? This one's close to being drop kicked down the garden ...

P We've been running a half dozen newer Epsons (R300's, R800's
P etc) and haven't had a single clog on any of them.

P Are you shaking the ink cartridges several times before installing
P them? If not, you're supposed to. That gets rid of air pockets
P in the cartridges and settles the ink to the bottom.


I've been using my old Epson Photo 870 for years and I always use cheap
compatible cartridges, It only clogs occasionally, and that's usually when I
ignore it for a few weeks. I find if I use every couple of days it never
clogs and still prints terrific photos. Honest! Maybe the newer ones are not
as reliable, I couldn't comment about that as there's no way I'm going to
replace the 870 in the near future just to get a few more pixels per inch.



with best regards, 3T39. E-mail:

"Peter" wrote in message
nk.net...
"Arfa Daily" wrote in message
...
So, am I just being unlucky, or has anyone else had similar problems ?
This
one's close to being drop kicked down the garden ...

We've been running a half dozen newer Epsons (R300's, R800's
etc) and haven't had a single clog on any of them.

Are you shaking the ink cartridges several times before installing
them? If not, you're supposed to. That gets rid of air pockets
in the cartridges and settles the ink to the bottom.

Also, are you using a power strip to turn the printer off? If so,
you're bypassing the head seals, and that will cause a problem.




Hi Peter

Thanks for the advice. I haven't been shaking the cartridges prior to
fitting, but then I've never seen anything in the paperwork that suggested
you should, or in the " on screen " instructions that pop up when you start
replacing a cartridge. I've also never had to do this with any other printer
that I've owned, but I will give it a try on the next replacement ...

As far as turning off goes, it is basically never turned off, but it is used
pretty much daily, and I would have thought that there was seldom much more
than 12 hours between uses. As far as head sealing goes, I would have
thought that the standby " park " position was the same as the
printer-originated power down " park " position, thus sealing up the heads
during periods of non use but perhaps that's not so. What you're saying
would suggest that this is what you believe, and the heads get left in an '
out ' position if you just kill the power rather than allowing it to go
through a power down sequence. If not, then I would suggest that that's a
design oversight, and the heads should always be sealed when not actually
printing. Even if it is so, I would not have expected bulk ink to dry in the
nozzles that quickly, but perhaps I'm being over optimistic there. Comments
?

Perhaps these ' cartridge only ' printers don't sit well with my patterns of
useage. I do know that in future, I will be going back to an HP. Even though
the cartridges are more expensive, at least I'm getting a nice new head each
time, and if one does block up, the only thing that's scrap is the
cartridge, not the whole printer.

Thanks again, and if shaking and turning off seems to do any good, I'll post
again in a few months, and say so.

Arfa

"Arfa Daily" wrote in message
...



Hi Peter

Thanks for the advice. I haven't been shaking the cartridges prior to
fitting, but then I've never seen anything in the paperwork that suggested
you should, or in the " on screen " instructions that pop up when you
start replacing a cartridge. I've also never had to do this with any other
printer that I've owned, but I will give it a try on the next replacement
...


Epson seems to endorse shaking cartridges. Here's a couple of Epson
manuals.

http://support2.epson.net/manuals/en...df/sc65sug.pdf
http://support2.epson.net/manuals/en...SPR1800sug.pdf

However this article says no, though they are talking about not shaking open
cartridges, which is fairly obvious.

http://ezinearticles.com/?Choosing-t...r-Ink&id=70138

Mind, any article with gems of astounding insight like "With regular use,
printer ink may begin to dwindle." doesn't fill me with confidence.

Dave

"Dave D" wrote in message
...

"Arfa Daily" wrote in message
...



Hi Peter

Thanks for the advice. I haven't been shaking the cartridges prior to
fitting, but then I've never seen anything in the paperwork that
suggested you should, or in the " on screen " instructions that pop up
when you start replacing a cartridge. I've also never had to do this with
any other printer that I've owned, but I will give it a try on the next
replacement ...


Epson seems to endorse shaking cartridges. Here's a couple of Epson
manuals.

http://support2.epson.net/manuals/en...df/sc65sug.pdf
http://support2.epson.net/manuals/en...SPR1800sug.pdf

Those are Pigment ink printers.

"Arfa Daily" wrote in message ...

"Peter" wrote in message
nk.net...
"Arfa Daily" wrote in message
...
So, am I just being unlucky, or has anyone else had similar problems ?
This
one's close to being drop kicked down the garden ...

We've been running a half dozen newer Epsons (R300's, R800's
etc) and haven't had a single clog on any of them.

Are you shaking the ink cartridges several times before installing
them? If not, you're supposed to. That gets rid of air pockets
in the cartridges and settles the ink to the bottom.

Also, are you using a power strip to turn the printer off? If so,
you're bypassing the head seals, and that will cause a problem.


Hi Peter

Thanks for the advice. I haven't been shaking the cartridges prior to
fitting, but then I've never seen anything in the paperwork that suggested
you should, or in the " on screen " instructions that pop up when you start
replacing a cartridge. I've also never had to do this with any other printer
that I've owned, but I will give it a try on the next replacement ...

It depends on what model printer you have, and what kind of ink
it uses. It's clearly stated in our R800/R300/R200 manuals to
shake the cartridges downward several times right before installing
them. The insert that comes with the ink cartridges says the same
thing.

These printers use pigment-based inks, which are thicker than the
dye-based inks used in most of Epson's lower-end models. This
might account for the difference in instructions.

As far as turning off goes, it is basically never turned off, but it is used
pretty much daily, and I would have thought that there was seldom much more
than 12 hours between uses. As far as head sealing goes, I would have
thought that the standby " park " position was the same as the
printer-originated power down " park " position, thus sealing up the heads
during periods of non use but perhaps that's not so. What you're saying
would suggest that this is what you believe, and the heads get left in an '
out ' position if you just kill the power rather than allowing it to go
through a power down sequence. If not, then I would suggest that that's a
design oversight, and the heads should always be sealed when not actually
printing. Even if it is so, I would not have expected bulk ink to dry in the
nozzles that quickly, but perhaps I'm being over optimistic there. Comments
?

Epson printers do seal their heads after a certain amount of
inactivity. I was referring to turning the power off via a power
strip, whereby the printer couldn't engage its seals.

BTW are you using Epson or third-party inks? If the latter, all
bets are off with regard to clogging problems.

Perhaps these ' cartridge only ' printers don't sit well with my patterns of
useage. I do know that in future, I will be going back to an HP. Even though
the cartridges are more expensive, at least I'm getting a nice new head each
time, and if one does block up, the only thing that's scrap is the
cartridge, not the whole printer.

We've never found an HP inkjet that equals Epson's image
quality. A few of their most recent models come close though.

Thanks again, and if shaking and turning off seems to do any good, I'll post
again in a few months, and say so.

Arfa

Arfa Daily wrote:

Hi all

I am never EVER going to buy another printer from Epson. For years I used
HPs without any problem at all. I then changed to an Epson on the grounds
that the cartridges were cheaper to buy, because the heads weren't built in.
First mistake. The heads used to clog up on a regular basis. OK, it was a
cheap printer, so eventually I threw it away. Stupidly, I allowed a salesman
to talk me into another much more sophisticated model, which had card slots
for printing off my photos. And what does this one do ? Right ... the heads
clog about once a week.

This morning, as I was printing off a circuit diagram, I watched as the
stupid piece of ****e clogged on the black half way through the print. If I
was using garbage inks or refills, I might be able to understand it, but I
have ALWAYS used the genuine article right from the day it came out of the
box.

Of course, there's always the cleaning program. Yeah, right ...

This piece of software is such CRAP, that it can only do ALL of the heads at
once. It usually takes anything up to FOUR runs of this rotten program to
clear a clogged head. Each run uses about a gallon of ink, so by the time
you've got the black unclogged, you've also sprayed about 10 quids worth of
Mag Yell and Cyan into the bottom of the printer for no good reason other
than making the time a bit closer when you've got to line Epson's pocket
again for some more of their ludicrously priced dye.

I read somewhere the other day that home printer ink is the most expensive
fluid on the planet. I can vouch for that.

So, am I just being unlucky, or has anyone else had similar problems ? This
one's close to being drop kicked down the garden ...

Arfa


Hi Arfa...

Have a suggestion for you if I may.

Grab yourself a copy of the ssc software (free) from ssclg.com.

A fantastic utility that replaces (or supplants) the Epson cleaning
software. Allows you to clean only one head when required, rather
than wasting ink cleaning both when not needed.

Has a "power" cleaning mode as well, so that 4 wasteful regular ones
aren't needed.

Let's you reset the tank counters, so you can get every last bit of
expensive ink from your carts.

Lets you stop the counter if you wish, or reset it to full if you
want to refill your own carts.

Lets you hot swap carts without the printer insisting on re-charging them.

And more, waaaaay more. :)

Hope this helps, and take care.

Ken.

Disclaimer: I have nothing to do with ssc, other than having been a
user for years.

I've been using my Epson Stylus Photo 960 for about 1.5 to 2 years now
with no problems. It gets regular use with black text printing about 3
to 5 days a week and color photo printing about once a week to once a month.
I've only used genuine Epson Inks and have only had a head clog once.
Selecting the "cleaning" program solved the problem but did waste a lot
of ink. I cringed as I heard it squirt into the bottom sponge.

Back in the late 90s I paid heaps for an Epson Stylus 500 printer.
It was great at first, but then started producing "banded" printouts.
I wasn't really surprised, because it didn't get much use. Eventually
it got so bad that it was unusable.
When I took it apart, I was stunned by how much massively expensive
ink the thing had pumped into the huge absorbent pad under the
mechanism in its unstoppable self-cleaning cycles. I vowed that I'd
never ever touch another Epson printer, or inkjets in general if I
could avoid them.
However a mate loaned me his old HP Deskjet 500 which was totally
reliable for years until I decided to upgrade.
A couple of weeks ago I bought a little HP Laserjet 1020 which is
perfect so far, for the small amount of invoice etc printing that I
do.

Bob

On Tue, 27 Sep 2005 08:53:14 GMT, "Arfa Daily"
wrote:

Hi all

I am never EVER going to buy another printer from Epson. For years I used
HPs without any problem at all. I then changed to an Epson on the grounds
that the cartridges were cheaper to buy, because the heads weren't built in.
First mistake. The heads used to clog up on a regular basis. OK, it was a
cheap printer, so eventually I threw it away. Stupidly, I allowed a salesman
to talk me into another much more sophisticated model, which had card slots
for printing off my photos. And what does this one do ? Right ... the heads
clog about once a week.

This morning, as I was printing off a circuit diagram, I watched as the
stupid piece of ****e clogged on the black half way through the print. If I
was using garbage inks or refills, I might be able to understand it, but I
have ALWAYS used the genuine article right from the day it came out of the
box.

Of course, there's always the cleaning program. Yeah, right ...

This piece of software is such CRAP, that it can only do ALL of the heads at
once. It usually takes anything up to FOUR runs of this rotten program to
clear a clogged head. Each run uses about a gallon of ink, so by the time
you've got the black unclogged, you've also sprayed about 10 quids worth of
Mag Yell and Cyan into the bottom of the printer for no good reason other
than making the time a bit closer when you've got to line Epson's pocket
again for some more of their ludicrously priced dye.

I read somewhere the other day that home printer ink is the most expensive
fluid on the planet. I can vouch for that.

So, am I just being unlucky, or has anyone else had similar problems ? This
one's close to being drop kicked down the garden ...

Arfa



I have a C60 that I use once a week. I use only Epson cartridges and
it plugs up at least every other time I use it. We have used HPs,
Canons and Lexmarks in the past, none of which plug up. Chuck

"Bob Parker" wrote in message
...
Back in the late 90s I paid heaps for an Epson Stylus 500 printer.
It was great at first, but then started producing "banded" printouts.
I wasn't really surprised, because it didn't get much use. Eventually
it got so bad that it was unusable.
When I took it apart, I was stunned by how much massively expensive
ink the thing had pumped into the huge absorbent pad under the
mechanism in its unstoppable self-cleaning cycles. I vowed that I'd
never ever touch another Epson printer, or inkjets in general if I
could avoid them.

Yes, I had the Stylus Colour 500. It cost me about £275 IIRC and never lived
up to the print quality of the 'sample' image. After a period where it was
unused, it clogged up so badly that nothing would shift the blockage. It
ended up in the bin. I always used Epson cartridges BTW. Not only was the
print quality disappointing, the paper feed was dismal.

Some people knock HP printers, but at least I can put any old crap ink in
the cartridges and it can't damage the printer. If the print head gets
blocked beyond hope, I simply throw the cartridge in the bin and start off
with a new one.

Dave

"Ken Weitzel" wrote in message
news:DHb_e.268896$Hk.50469@pd7tw1no...


Arfa Daily wrote:

Hi all

I am never EVER going to buy another printer from Epson. For years I used
HPs without any problem at all. I then changed to an Epson on the grounds
that the cartridges were cheaper to buy, because the heads weren't built
in. First mistake. The heads used to clog up on a regular basis. OK, it
was a cheap printer, so eventually I threw it away. Stupidly, I allowed a
salesman to talk me into another much more sophisticated model, which had
card slots for printing off my photos. And what does this one do ? Right
... the heads clog about once a week.

This morning, as I was printing off a circuit diagram, I watched as the
stupid piece of ****e clogged on the black half way through the print. If
I was using garbage inks or refills, I might be able to understand it,
but I have ALWAYS used the genuine article right from the day it came out
of the box.

Of course, there's always the cleaning program. Yeah, right ...

This piece of software is such CRAP, that it can only do ALL of the heads
at once. It usually takes anything up to FOUR runs of this rotten program
to clear a clogged head. Each run uses about a gallon of ink, so by the
time you've got the black unclogged, you've also sprayed about 10 quids
worth of Mag Yell and Cyan into the bottom of the printer for no good
reason other than making the time a bit closer when you've got to line
Epson's pocket again for some more of their ludicrously priced dye.

I read somewhere the other day that home printer ink is the most
expensive fluid on the planet. I can vouch for that.

So, am I just being unlucky, or has anyone else had similar problems ?
This one's close to being drop kicked down the garden ...

Arfa


Hi Arfa...

Have a suggestion for you if I may.

Grab yourself a copy of the ssc software (free) from ssclg.com.

A fantastic utility that replaces (or supplants) the Epson cleaning
software. Allows you to clean only one head when required, rather
than wasting ink cleaning both when not needed.

Has a "power" cleaning mode as well, so that 4 wasteful regular ones
aren't needed.

Let's you reset the tank counters, so you can get every last bit of
expensive ink from your carts.

Lets you stop the counter if you wish, or reset it to full if you
want to refill your own carts.

Lets you hot swap carts without the printer insisting on re-charging them.

And more, waaaaay more. :)

Hope this helps, and take care.

Ken.

Disclaimer: I have nothing to do with ssc, other than having been a
user for years.


Hi Ken.I've got it and installed it, so we'll see how it goes. Thanks very
much for the reference.

Interesting to see, if you follow the thread down, that I'm not the only one
having these woes with the Epson. As a matter of interest, to all of those
who comment on what inks I am using , they are the genuine article. Branded
Epsons in Epson boxes, bought from high street retailer. I know many people
who have come to grief with third party inks, and as this machine has fixed
heads, I have never even contemplated using anything other than genuine
manufacturer's inks. Just for the record, the printer is a " Stylus Photo
RX425 "

Arfa

On Tue, 27 Sep 2005 13:59:37 GMT, Chuck wrote:

On Tue, 27 Sep 2005 08:53:14 GMT, "Arfa Daily"
wrote:

Hi all

I am never EVER going to buy another printer from Epson. For years I used
HPs without any problem at all. I then changed to an Epson on the grounds
that the cartridges were cheaper to buy, because the heads weren't built in.
First mistake. The heads used to clog up on a regular basis. OK, it was a
cheap printer, so eventually I threw it away. Stupidly, I allowed a salesman
to talk me into another much more sophisticated model, which had card slots
for printing off my photos. And what does this one do ? Right ... the heads
clog about once a week.

This morning, as I was printing off a circuit diagram, I watched as the
stupid piece of ****e clogged on the black half way through the print. If I
was using garbage inks or refills, I might be able to understand it, but I
have ALWAYS used the genuine article right from the day it came out of the
box.

Of course, there's always the cleaning program. Yeah, right ...

This piece of software is such CRAP, that it can only do ALL of the heads at
once. It usually takes anything up to FOUR runs of this rotten program to
clear a clogged head. Each run uses about a gallon of ink, so by the time
you've got the black unclogged, you've also sprayed about 10 quids worth of
Mag Yell and Cyan into the bottom of the printer for no good reason other
than making the time a bit closer when you've got to line Epson's pocket
again for some more of their ludicrously priced dye.

I read somewhere the other day that home printer ink is the most expensive
fluid on the planet. I can vouch for that.

So, am I just being unlucky, or has anyone else had similar problems ? This
one's close to being drop kicked down the garden ...

Arfa



I have a C60 that I use once a week. I use only Epson cartridges and
it plugs up at least every other time I use it. We have used HPs,
Canons and Lexmarks in the past, none of which plug up. Chuck

Epson printer's are pure crap, at least the one's I've wasted my money
on.
That includes the following models:
Epson Stylus Pro and Pro XL.
Epson Stylus 1500 and the later "Colorado" model.
Epson 800

I have a storage locker full of Epson crap that we had to sideline
because of the constant problems associated with these printers,
namely clogging and loss of seal integrity on the ink tanks.
I'd even managed to burn out the pezio heads on a couple of them
running the endless cleaning cycles Epson insists would "fix" the
banding problems.
We run a pro print shop and in the mid to late 90's saw inexpensive
inkjets as a solution for "spot color" work in our smaller print
runs(offset). Also as a low cost proof system on our bigger four color
work.
The Epson's failed miserably, they were neither reliable enough to
cost effective and Epson never came out with any pantone ink
cartridges that were work a fck.
We finally went with a couple of mid level plotters from Encad and
haven't had any problems since.
We've also purchased a few Lexmark printers as well as two of Canon's
better offerings that have done a bangup job for our low-end work.

I can't emphasize enough that one should stay away from anything
Epson.
I'm only hanging on to the pile of Epson crap that I have because I've
invested thousands into it and hope that someday some third party will
offer upgrade kits to replace the head and ink supply system so that
these units will actually print something besides test sheets and
cleanup patterns.

On Tue, 27 Sep 2005 10:34:17 GMT, "Arfa Daily"
wrote:


"Peter" wrote in message
ink.net...
"Arfa Daily" wrote in message
...
So, am I just being unlucky, or has anyone else had similar problems ?
This
one's close to being drop kicked down the garden ...

We've been running a half dozen newer Epsons (R300's, R800's
etc) and haven't had a single clog on any of them.

Are you shaking the ink cartridges several times before installing
them? If not, you're supposed to. That gets rid of air pockets
in the cartridges and settles the ink to the bottom.

Also, are you using a power strip to turn the printer off? If so,
you're bypassing the head seals, and that will cause a problem.




Hi Peter

Thanks for the advice. I haven't been shaking the cartridges prior to
fitting, but then I've never seen anything in the paperwork that suggested
you should, or in the " on screen " instructions that pop up when you start
replacing a cartridge. I've also never had to do this with any other printer
that I've owned, but I will give it a try on the next replacement ...

As far as turning off goes, it is basically never turned off, but it is used
pretty much daily, and I would have thought that there was seldom much more
than 12 hours between uses. As far as head sealing goes, I would have
thought that the standby " park " position was the same as the
printer-originated power down " park " position, thus sealing up the heads
during periods of non use but perhaps that's not so. What you're saying
would suggest that this is what you believe, and the heads get left in an '
out ' position if you just kill the power rather than allowing it to go
through a power down sequence. If not, then I would suggest that that's a
design oversight, and the heads should always be sealed when not actually
printing. Even if it is so, I would not have expected bulk ink to dry in the
nozzles that quickly, but perhaps I'm being over optimistic there. Comments
?

Perhaps these ' cartridge only ' printers don't sit well with my patterns of
useage. I do know that in future, I will be going back to an HP. Even though
the cartridges are more expensive, at least I'm getting a nice new head each
time, and if one does block up, the only thing that's scrap is the
cartridge, not the whole printer.

Thanks again, and if shaking and turning off seems to do any good, I'll post
again in a few months, and say so.

Arfa

What shaking is supposed to do is settle the ink into the bottom of
the cartridge.( the cartridge contains a sponge that's soaked in ink)
Why a sponge is beyond me, it just allows the introduction of air
bubbles and promotes dry clogging if the cartridge is allowed to sit
for more than a day or two.
An old trick that many Epson owners used to use was to place the
cartridge in a sock with the ink ports pointed outward and give the
sock several fast hard spins in an attempt to drive the ink into the
bottom of the cartridge and force the air either out the feed port or
into the top of the cartridge.
Some have even claimed this worked.

"none" wrote in message ...
On Tue, 27 Sep 2005 13:59:37 GMT, Chuck wrote:

On Tue, 27 Sep 2005 08:53:14 GMT, "Arfa Daily"
wrote:

Hi all

I am never EVER going to buy another printer from Epson. For years I used
HPs without any problem at all. I then changed to an Epson on the grounds
that the cartridges were cheaper to buy, because the heads weren't built in.
First mistake. The heads used to clog up on a regular basis. OK, it was a
cheap printer, so eventually I threw it away. Stupidly, I allowed a salesman
to talk me into another much more sophisticated model, which had card slots
for printing off my photos. And what does this one do ? Right ... the heads
clog about once a week.

This morning, as I was printing off a circuit diagram, I watched as the
stupid piece of ****e clogged on the black half way through the print. If I
was using garbage inks or refills, I might be able to understand it, but I
have ALWAYS used the genuine article right from the day it came out of the
box.

Of course, there's always the cleaning program. Yeah, right ...

This piece of software is such CRAP, that it can only do ALL of the heads at
once. It usually takes anything up to FOUR runs of this rotten program to
clear a clogged head. Each run uses about a gallon of ink, so by the time
you've got the black unclogged, you've also sprayed about 10 quids worth of
Mag Yell and Cyan into the bottom of the printer for no good reason other
than making the time a bit closer when you've got to line Epson's pocket
again for some more of their ludicrously priced dye.

I read somewhere the other day that home printer ink is the most expensive
fluid on the planet. I can vouch for that.

So, am I just being unlucky, or has anyone else had similar problems ? This
one's close to being drop kicked down the garden ...

Arfa



I have a C60 that I use once a week. I use only Epson cartridges and
it plugs up at least every other time I use it. We have used HPs,
Canons and Lexmarks in the past, none of which plug up. Chuck

Epson printer's are pure crap, at least the one's I've wasted my money
on.
That includes the following models:
Epson Stylus Pro and Pro XL.
Epson Stylus 1500 and the later "Colorado" model.
Epson 800

I have a storage locker full of Epson crap that we had to sideline
because of the constant problems associated with these printers,
namely clogging and loss of seal integrity on the ink tanks.
I'd even managed to burn out the pezio heads on a couple of them
running the endless cleaning cycles Epson insists would "fix" the
banding problems.
We run a pro print shop and in the mid to late 90's saw inexpensive
inkjets as a solution for "spot color" work in our smaller print
runs(offset). Also as a low cost proof system on our bigger four color
work.
The Epson's failed miserably, they were neither reliable enough to
cost effective and Epson never came out with any pantone ink
cartridges that were work a fck.
We finally went with a couple of mid level plotters from Encad and
haven't had any problems since.
We've also purchased a few Lexmark printers as well as two of Canon's
better offerings that have done a bangup job for our low-end work.

I can't emphasize enough that one should stay away from anything
Epson.

Lexmark? Lexmark?? I wish you'd include your company name,
so I can be sure to keep my customers at least 100 feet from it.

Were you using third-party inks?

We had occasional clogs on our old Stylus Color 800, and zero
clogs after nearly a year on our R800. Apparently Epson has
addressed the problem, at least partially.

none ha escrito:

On Tue, 27 Sep 2005 13:59:37 GMT, Chuck wrote:

On Tue, 27 Sep 2005 08:53:14 GMT, "Arfa Daily"
wrote:

Hi all

I am never EVER going to buy another printer from Epson. For years I used
HPs without any problem at all. I then changed to an Epson on the grounds
that the cartridges were cheaper to buy, because the heads weren't built in.
First mistake. The heads used to clog up on a regular basis. OK, it was a
cheap printer, so eventually I threw it away. Stupidly, I allowed a salesman
to talk me into another much more sophisticated model, which had card slots
for printing off my photos. And what does this one do ? Right ... the heads
clog about once a week.

This morning, as I was printing off a circuit diagram, I watched as the
stupid piece of ****e clogged on the black half way through the print. If I
was using garbage inks or refills, I might be able to understand it, but I
have ALWAYS used the genuine article right from the day it came out of the
box.

Of course, there's always the cleaning program. Yeah, right ...

This piece of software is such CRAP, that it can only do ALL of the heads at
once. It usually takes anything up to FOUR runs of this rotten program to
clear a clogged head. Each run uses about a gallon of ink, so by the time
you've got the black unclogged, you've also sprayed about 10 quids worth of
Mag Yell and Cyan into the bottom of the printer for no good reason other
than making the time a bit closer when you've got to line Epson's pocket
again for some more of their ludicrously priced dye.

I read somewhere the other day that home printer ink is the most expensive
fluid on the planet. I can vouch for that.

So, am I just being unlucky, or has anyone else had similar problems ? This
one's close to being drop kicked down the garden ...

Arfa



I have a C60 that I use once a week. I use only Epson cartridges and
it plugs up at least every other time I use it. We have used HPs,
Canons and Lexmarks in the past, none of which plug up. Chuck

Epson printer's are pure crap, at least the one's I've wasted my money
on.
That includes the following models:
Epson Stylus Pro and Pro XL.
Epson Stylus 1500 and the later "Colorado" model.
Epson 800

I have a storage locker full of Epson crap that we had to sideline
because of the constant problems associated with these printers,
namely clogging and loss of seal integrity on the ink tanks.
I'd even managed to burn out the pezio heads on a couple of them
running the endless cleaning cycles Epson insists would "fix" the
banding problems.
We run a pro print shop and in the mid to late 90's saw inexpensive
inkjets as a solution for "spot color" work in our smaller print
runs(offset). Also as a low cost proof system on our bigger four color
work.
The Epson's failed miserably, they were neither reliable enough to
cost effective and Epson never came out with any pantone ink
cartridges that were work a fck.
We finally went with a couple of mid level plotters from Encad and
haven't had any problems since.
We've also purchased a few Lexmark printers as well as two of Canon's
better offerings that have done a bangup job for our low-end work.

I can't emphasize enough that one should stay away from anything
Epson.
I'm only hanging on to the pile of Epson crap that I have because I've
invested thousands into it and hope that someday some third party will
offer upgrade kits to replace the head and ink supply system so that
these units will actually print something besides test sheets and
cleanup patterns.

I have used the old stylus 500, was given a few other epsons a while
back (i think they were 450s) and relatives have a photo810. In both
cases i experienced the same clogging and hassle. After a massive clog
resulted in no output and the cleaning cycles did nothing but wasted
all the colour ink, The photo 810 i ended up dismantling, unscrewing
the print head, removing it and cleaning the nozzles manually with a
wet-wipe. That solved the problem, dunno how long it lasted. So at
least it is possible to restore them that way. I know opening them up
sounds time consuming but look at it this way: you'll spend as much
time opening them up as you would fruitlessly running the cleaning
prog.
But in short: avoid 'em!
-B.

Epson printer's are pure crap, at least the one's I've wasted my money
on.
That includes the following models:
Epson Stylus Pro and Pro XL.
Epson Stylus 1500 and the later "Colorado" model.
Epson 800



I had an old Stylus Color IIs that worked beautifully and never clogged.
Later I had a Stylus 600 which would clog constantly. I also had a couple
Canon printers that behaved similarly, HP is the only one that seems to be
decent but I got a laser printer for my B&W stuff now and it never clogs.

James Sweet wrote:
I had an old Stylus Color IIs that worked beautifully and never clogged.
Later I had a Stylus 600 which would clog constantly. I also had a couple
Canon printers that behaved similarly, HP is the only one that seems to be
decent

I started keeping alcohol wipes in the computer room when my H-P would
clog almost every time I used it (occasional use). I kept on keeping
them here for my Lexmark, which clogs less but still often enough.

--
If John McCain gets the 2008 Republican Presidential nomination,
my vote for President will be a write-in for Jiang Zemin.

"none" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 27 Sep 2005 10:34:17 GMT, "Arfa Daily"
wrote:


"Peter" wrote in message
link.net...
"Arfa Daily" wrote in message
...
So, am I just being unlucky, or has anyone else had similar problems ?
This
one's close to being drop kicked down the garden ...

We've been running a half dozen newer Epsons (R300's, R800's
etc) and haven't had a single clog on any of them.

Are you shaking the ink cartridges several times before installing
them? If not, you're supposed to. That gets rid of air pockets
in the cartridges and settles the ink to the bottom.

Also, are you using a power strip to turn the printer off? If so,
you're bypassing the head seals, and that will cause a problem.




Hi Peter

Thanks for the advice. I haven't been shaking the cartridges prior to
fitting, but then I've never seen anything in the paperwork that suggested
you should, or in the " on screen " instructions that pop up when you
start
replacing a cartridge. I've also never had to do this with any other
printer
that I've owned, but I will give it a try on the next replacement ...

As far as turning off goes, it is basically never turned off, but it is
used
pretty much daily, and I would have thought that there was seldom much
more
than 12 hours between uses. As far as head sealing goes, I would have
thought that the standby " park " position was the same as the
printer-originated power down " park " position, thus sealing up the heads
during periods of non use but perhaps that's not so. What you're saying
would suggest that this is what you believe, and the heads get left in an
'
out ' position if you just kill the power rather than allowing it to go
through a power down sequence. If not, then I would suggest that that's a
design oversight, and the heads should always be sealed when not actually
printing. Even if it is so, I would not have expected bulk ink to dry in
the
nozzles that quickly, but perhaps I'm being over optimistic there.
Comments
?

Perhaps these ' cartridge only ' printers don't sit well with my patterns
of
useage. I do know that in future, I will be going back to an HP. Even
though
the cartridges are more expensive, at least I'm getting a nice new head
each
time, and if one does block up, the only thing that's scrap is the
cartridge, not the whole printer.

Thanks again, and if shaking and turning off seems to do any good, I'll
post
again in a few months, and say so.

Arfa

What shaking is supposed to do is settle the ink into the bottom of
the cartridge.( the cartridge contains a sponge that's soaked in ink)
Why a sponge is beyond me, it just allows the introduction of air
bubbles and promotes dry clogging if the cartridge is allowed to sit
for more than a day or two.
An old trick that many Epson owners used to use was to place the
cartridge in a sock with the ink ports pointed outward and give the
sock several fast hard spins in an attempt to drive the ink into the
bottom of the cartridge and force the air either out the feed port or
into the top of the cartridge.
Some have even claimed this worked.

Yes, it's curious how the internals of these cartridges are constructed,
isn't it ? You'd think that if air bubbles in the cartridge was a problem,
they'd work the design up so that it wasn't the case.

Arfa

"clifto" wrote in message
...
James Sweet wrote:
I had an old Stylus Color IIs that worked beautifully and never clogged.
Later I had a Stylus 600 which would clog constantly. I also had a
couple
Canon printers that behaved similarly, HP is the only one that seems to
be
decent

I started keeping alcohol wipes in the computer room when my H-P would
clog almost every time I used it (occasional use). I kept on keeping
them here for my Lexmark, which clogs less but still often enough.

--


From what I can tell, it's just not possible to go by the brand, some brands
are almost always junk, the rest are a crapshoot. I've come to the
conclusion that consumer grade inkjet printers are trash, occasionally you
get lucky and one will work long enough to run a cartridge or two out of ink
but there's duds from all brands.

On Fri, 30 Sep 2005 23:25:11 GMT, "James Sweet"
wrote:

From what I can tell, it's just not possible to go by the brand, some brands
are almost always junk, the rest are a crapshoot. I've come to the
conclusion that consumer grade inkjet printers are trash, occasionally you
get lucky and one will work long enough to run a cartridge or two out of ink
but there's duds from all brands.

Amen!!! I've given up on inkjets. The little HP Laserjet 1020 I
just bought is perfect for the small amount of B/W printing I do.

Bob

I have a C60 that I use once a week. I use only Epson cartridges and
it plugs up at least every other time I use it. We have used HPs,
Canons and Lexmarks in the past, none of which plug up. Chuck

Epson printer's are pure crap, at least the one's I've wasted my money
on.
That includes the following models:
Epson Stylus Pro and Pro XL.
Epson Stylus 1500 and the later "Colorado" model.
Epson 800

I have a storage locker full of Epson crap that we had to sideline
because of the constant problems associated with these printers,
namely clogging and loss of seal integrity on the ink tanks.
I'd even managed to burn out the pezio heads on a couple of them
running the endless cleaning cycles Epson insists would "fix" the
banding problems.
We run a pro print shop and in the mid to late 90's saw inexpensive
inkjets as a solution for "spot color" work in our smaller print
runs(offset). Also as a low cost proof system on our bigger four color
work.
The Epson's failed miserably, they were neither reliable enough to
cost effective and Epson never came out with any pantone ink
cartridges that were work a fck.
We finally went with a couple of mid level plotters from Encad and
haven't had any problems since.
We've also purchased a few Lexmark printers as well as two of Canon's
better offerings that have done a bangup job for our low-end work.

I can't emphasize enough that one should stay away from anything
Epson.
I'm only hanging on to the pile of Epson crap that I have because I've
invested thousands into it and hope that someday some third party will
offer upgrade kits to replace the head and ink supply system so that
these units will actually print something besides test sheets and
cleanup patterns.

I had an original epson stylus color, with the front loading paper tray, one
of the best printers I ever had lasted about 6 years, never clogged, never
jammed, ink lasted fairly long time. I saw friends with color II's garbage,
and the rest of the range since then I consider garbage. One thing about
inkjet printers is you really should print something with back and color
about once a week, even if its just a test picture or some black and color
squares in paint. I curently own a HP 960 runs ok was fairly cheap even if
the ink costs a lot. But I dont use it that much, I have a brother HL 1650
laser printer for the bulk of my printing.

color laser printers are not as expensive as they used to be, and in
the US, it seems neither is gas heat.

roll with the times I guess

On Fri, 30 Sep 2005 08:12:19 GMT, "Peter"
wrote:

"none" wrote in message ...
On Tue, 27 Sep 2005 13:59:37 GMT, Chuck wrote:

On Tue, 27 Sep 2005 08:53:14 GMT, "Arfa Daily"
wrote:

Hi all

I am never EVER going to buy another printer from Epson. For years I used
HPs without any problem at all. I then changed to an Epson on the grounds
that the cartridges were cheaper to buy, because the heads weren't built in.
First mistake. The heads used to clog up on a regular basis. OK, it was a
cheap printer, so eventually I threw it away. Stupidly, I allowed a salesman
to talk me into another much more sophisticated model, which had card slots
for printing off my photos. And what does this one do ? Right ... the heads
clog about once a week.

This morning, as I was printing off a circuit diagram, I watched as the
stupid piece of ****e clogged on the black half way through the print. If I
was using garbage inks or refills, I might be able to understand it, but I
have ALWAYS used the genuine article right from the day it came out of the
box.

Of course, there's always the cleaning program. Yeah, right ...

This piece of software is such CRAP, that it can only do ALL of the heads at
once. It usually takes anything up to FOUR runs of this rotten program to
clear a clogged head. Each run uses about a gallon of ink, so by the time
you've got the black unclogged, you've also sprayed about 10 quids worth of
Mag Yell and Cyan into the bottom of the printer for no good reason other
than making the time a bit closer when you've got to line Epson's pocket
again for some more of their ludicrously priced dye.

I read somewhere the other day that home printer ink is the most expensive
fluid on the planet. I can vouch for that.

So, am I just being unlucky, or has anyone else had similar problems ? This
one's close to being drop kicked down the garden ...

Arfa



I have a C60 that I use once a week. I use only Epson cartridges and
it plugs up at least every other time I use it. We have used HPs,
Canons and Lexmarks in the past, none of which plug up. Chuck

Epson printer's are pure crap, at least the one's I've wasted my money
on.
That includes the following models:
Epson Stylus Pro and Pro XL.
Epson Stylus 1500 and the later "Colorado" model.
Epson 800

I have a storage locker full of Epson crap that we had to sideline
because of the constant problems associated with these printers,
namely clogging and loss of seal integrity on the ink tanks.
I'd even managed to burn out the pezio heads on a couple of them
running the endless cleaning cycles Epson insists would "fix" the
banding problems.
We run a pro print shop and in the mid to late 90's saw inexpensive
inkjets as a solution for "spot color" work in our smaller print
runs(offset). Also as a low cost proof system on our bigger four color
work.
The Epson's failed miserably, they were neither reliable enough to
cost effective and Epson never came out with any pantone ink
cartridges that were work a fck.
We finally went with a couple of mid level plotters from Encad and
haven't had any problems since.
We've also purchased a few Lexmark printers as well as two of Canon's
better offerings that have done a bangup job for our low-end work.

I can't emphasize enough that one should stay away from anything
Epson.

Lexmark? Lexmark?? I wish you'd include your company name,
so I can be sure to keep my customers at least 100 feet from it.

Were you using third-party inks?

We had occasional clogs on our old Stylus Color 800, and zero
clogs after nearly a year on our R800. Apparently Epson has
addressed the problem, at least partially.

YEAH, Lexmark. WE have several in use in the front offices as well and
have had NO problems with them what-so-ever.
The brand of ink has little to do with how reliably a printer
performs. If the basic design is flawed it'll clog with whatever ink
you use.
To answer your question though we had just as many clogs and seal loss
problems with Epson's cartridges as with the better pro inks and tanks
we used. (German made tanks and pantone inks.)
Problem is Epson printers use pizeo prints heads and the whole concept
sucks, it just isn't as reliable as the other designs available.
Besides if you subscribe to the notion that it's ok to buy a printer
that MUST only have the oem's ink cartridges you certainly can't be in
this as a professional, or maybe you work for Epson?(Epson is
basically a company of liars, what with their telling all their
customers that the use of other brands of ink cartridges voids any and
all warranties when as a fact of law it's just no so.)
On the 800's we had we experienced constant clogs plus the software
drivers were pretty lame as well.(The start up and logic functions on
these models were tedious and slow. enough to drive even the most
patient to fits, especially when after finally getting them in a green
lite mode all you'd get is banding or total clogs on one color or the
other.)
Don't worry if you're any indication of the Intelligence Quotient of
your customer we wouldn't want them walking in our shop in the first
place.

On 30 Sep 2005 04:05:15 -0700, "b" wrote:


none ha escrito:

On Tue, 27 Sep 2005 13:59:37 GMT, Chuck wrote:

On Tue, 27 Sep 2005 08:53:14 GMT, "Arfa Daily"
wrote:

Hi all

I am never EVER going to buy another printer from Epson. For years I used
HPs without any problem at all. I then changed to an Epson on the grounds
that the cartridges were cheaper to buy, because the heads weren't built in.
First mistake. The heads used to clog up on a regular basis. OK, it was a
cheap printer, so eventually I threw it away. Stupidly, I allowed a salesman
to talk me into another much more sophisticated model, which had card slots
for printing off my photos. And what does this one do ? Right ... the heads
clog about once a week.

This morning, as I was printing off a circuit diagram, I watched as the
stupid piece of ****e clogged on the black half way through the print. If I
was using garbage inks or refills, I might be able to understand it, but I
have ALWAYS used the genuine article right from the day it came out of the
box.

Of course, there's always the cleaning program. Yeah, right ...

This piece of software is such CRAP, that it can only do ALL of the heads at
once. It usually takes anything up to FOUR runs of this rotten program to
clear a clogged head. Each run uses about a gallon of ink, so by the time
you've got the black unclogged, you've also sprayed about 10 quids worth of
Mag Yell and Cyan into the bottom of the printer for no good reason other
than making the time a bit closer when you've got to line Epson's pocket
again for some more of their ludicrously priced dye.

I read somewhere the other day that home printer ink is the most expensive
fluid on the planet. I can vouch for that.

So, am I just being unlucky, or has anyone else had similar problems ? This
one's close to being drop kicked down the garden ...

Arfa



I have a C60 that I use once a week. I use only Epson cartridges and
it plugs up at least every other time I use it. We have used HPs,
Canons and Lexmarks in the past, none of which plug up. Chuck

Epson printer's are pure crap, at least the one's I've wasted my money
on.
That includes the following models:
Epson Stylus Pro and Pro XL.
Epson Stylus 1500 and the later "Colorado" model.
Epson 800

I have a storage locker full of Epson crap that we had to sideline
because of the constant problems associated with these printers,
namely clogging and loss of seal integrity on the ink tanks.
I'd even managed to burn out the pezio heads on a couple of them
running the endless cleaning cycles Epson insists would "fix" the
banding problems.
We run a pro print shop and in the mid to late 90's saw inexpensive
inkjets as a solution for "spot color" work in our smaller print
runs(offset). Also as a low cost proof system on our bigger four color
work.
The Epson's failed miserably, they were neither reliable enough to
cost effective and Epson never came out with any pantone ink
cartridges that were work a fck.
We finally went with a couple of mid level plotters from Encad and
haven't had any problems since.
We've also purchased a few Lexmark printers as well as two of Canon's
better offerings that have done a bangup job for our low-end work.

I can't emphasize enough that one should stay away from anything
Epson.
I'm only hanging on to the pile of Epson crap that I have because I've
invested thousands into it and hope that someday some third party will
offer upgrade kits to replace the head and ink supply system so that
these units will actually print something besides test sheets and
cleanup patterns.

I have used the old stylus 500, was given a few other epsons a while
back (i think they were 450s) and relatives have a photo810. In both
cases i experienced the same clogging and hassle. After a massive clog
resulted in no output and the cleaning cycles did nothing but wasted
all the colour ink, The photo 810 i ended up dismantling, unscrewing
the print head, removing it and cleaning the nozzles manually with a
wet-wipe. That solved the problem, dunno how long it lasted. So at
least it is possible to restore them that way. I know opening them up
sounds time consuming but look at it this way: you'll spend as much
time opening them up as you would fruitlessly running the cleaning
prog.
But in short: avoid 'em!
-B.

Right! I spent hours of down time dismantling our 1500 and 3000 and
cleaning the heads using an ultrasonic cleaner, only to have them clog
up again after just a few hours.
A total waste of time, especially if you're the basic consumer who
just wants a printer that'll work when you hit the print key.( To some
extent it's justifiable to do PIA maintenence if the printer in
question gives better results when working properly and decent runs
can be had between down cycles.)

On Fri, 30 Sep 2005 18:20:23 GMT, "James Sweet"
wrote:



Epson printer's are pure crap, at least the one's I've wasted my money
on.
That includes the following models:
Epson Stylus Pro and Pro XL.
Epson Stylus 1500 and the later "Colorado" model.
Epson 800



I had an old Stylus Color IIs that worked beautifully and never clogged.
Later I had a Stylus 600 which would clog constantly. I also had a couple
Canon printers that behaved similarly, HP is the only one that seems to be
decent but I got a laser printer for my B&W stuff now and it never clogs.

You were lucky with that IIs. In the early production models of that
printer they were reported to have very stringent QA on the line and
put in better built print heads to start with. Not so on the later
models, they'd gotten their rep established and were only interested
in the bottom line after that.
In the mid 90's and a bit later for overall image quality inkjet was
the only thing cost effective for achieving tonal quality approaching
four color offset for small runs and such though.(I leased a big Xerox
four color laser setup back in 96 on their promises that it'd match
4-color in tonal gradation and overall gamut. Just more sales rep BS
though. Far to contrasty and only poor gamuts to boot.)
Happily today's laser printers are a far cry from then. I'd be using
more myself if the cost per page would only get lower for color.
I've been pretty happy with the results from the plotters we've been
using, especially inregards to cost per page.
I'm currently testing a six color thermal ink plotter one of my reps
loaned me and am much impressed with it's output.
Now if he's only telling me the truth about the low cost of the
cartridges it might be worth the price tag.

On Fri, 30 Sep 2005 22:46:54 GMT, "Arfa Daily"
wrote:


"none" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 27 Sep 2005 10:34:17 GMT, "Arfa Daily"
wrote:


"Peter" wrote in message
hlink.net...
"Arfa Daily" wrote in message
...
So, am I just being unlucky, or has anyone else had similar problems ?
This
one's close to being drop kicked down the garden ...

We've been running a half dozen newer Epsons (R300's, R800's
etc) and haven't had a single clog on any of them.

Are you shaking the ink cartridges several times before installing
them? If not, you're supposed to. That gets rid of air pockets
in the cartridges and settles the ink to the bottom.

Also, are you using a power strip to turn the printer off? If so,
you're bypassing the head seals, and that will cause a problem.




Hi Peter

Thanks for the advice. I haven't been shaking the cartridges prior to
fitting, but then I've never seen anything in the paperwork that suggested
you should, or in the " on screen " instructions that pop up when you
start
replacing a cartridge. I've also never had to do this with any other
printer
that I've owned, but I will give it a try on the next replacement ...

As far as turning off goes, it is basically never turned off, but it is
used
pretty much daily, and I would have thought that there was seldom much
more
than 12 hours between uses. As far as head sealing goes, I would have
thought that the standby " park " position was the same as the
printer-originated power down " park " position, thus sealing up the heads
during periods of non use but perhaps that's not so. What you're saying
would suggest that this is what you believe, and the heads get left in an
'
out ' position if you just kill the power rather than allowing it to go
through a power down sequence. If not, then I would suggest that that's a
design oversight, and the heads should always be sealed when not actually
printing. Even if it is so, I would not have expected bulk ink to dry in
the
nozzles that quickly, but perhaps I'm being over optimistic there.
Comments
?

Perhaps these ' cartridge only ' printers don't sit well with my patterns
of
useage. I do know that in future, I will be going back to an HP. Even
though
the cartridges are more expensive, at least I'm getting a nice new head
each
time, and if one does block up, the only thing that's scrap is the
cartridge, not the whole printer.

Thanks again, and if shaking and turning off seems to do any good, I'll
post
again in a few months, and say so.

Arfa

What shaking is supposed to do is settle the ink into the bottom of
the cartridge.( the cartridge contains a sponge that's soaked in ink)
Why a sponge is beyond me, it just allows the introduction of air
bubbles and promotes dry clogging if the cartridge is allowed to sit
for more than a day or two.
An old trick that many Epson owners used to use was to place the
cartridge in a sock with the ink ports pointed outward and give the
sock several fast hard spins in an attempt to drive the ink into the
bottom of the cartridge and force the air either out the feed port or
into the top of the cartridge.
Some have even claimed this worked.

Yes, it's curious how the internals of these cartridges are constructed,
isn't it ? You'd think that if air bubbles in the cartridge was a problem,
they'd work the design up so that it wasn't the case.

Arfa

The marketing strategy with most of the inkjets printer companies is
aimed at making most of their profits from selling you the cartridges,
hence the reason the printers are often so reasonably priced. Just a
means of getting the buyer hooked on the never ending need to purchase
yet another cartridge.(no better than the average street dealer in
that repsect.)
If they use a foam core it can actually promote clogging and air
bubbles etc... Also lets them put less ink in the cartridge in the
first place.( And NO, that old argument they put forth about the
sponge regulating the flow of ink is just so much BS. Proper sized
aperture ports would do the same thing while leaving MORE room in the
tank for ink. That'd be too fair to the consumer though, not to
mention cutting down on cartridge sales.)
With all the inkjets we use in the shop and the front office I use
aftermarket ink and tanks, it's the only way to see any profit out of
any inkjet.
If you want to try and keep your Epson going I can give you all sorts
of inside info and tricks on how to get it to produce at least part of
the time, just post your questions/problems.

On Fri, 30 Sep 2005 23:25:11 GMT, "James Sweet"
wrote:


"clifto" wrote in message
...
James Sweet wrote:
I had an old Stylus Color IIs that worked beautifully and never clogged.
Later I had a Stylus 600 which would clog constantly. I also had a
couple
Canon printers that behaved similarly, HP is the only one that seems to
be
decent

I started keeping alcohol wipes in the computer room when my H-P would
clog almost every time I used it (occasional use). I kept on keeping
them here for my Lexmark, which clogs less but still often enough.

--


From what I can tell, it's just not possible to go by the brand, some brands
are almost always junk, the rest are a crapshoot. I've come to the
conclusion that consumer grade inkjet printers are trash, occasionally you
get lucky and one will work long enough to run a cartridge or two out of ink
but there's duds from all brands.

I had slightly better results out of the blanks I got from Nujet and
the seals I got from a German company, though in the end it amounted
to just to much down time babying these crappy printers.(And the mods
I had were supposed to be their best pro units.)
Sadly true about the state of market for consumer units.

"none" wrote in message ...
On Fri, 30 Sep 2005 08:12:19 GMT, "Peter"
wrote:

"none" wrote in message ...
On Tue, 27 Sep 2005 13:59:37 GMT, Chuck wrote:

On Tue, 27 Sep 2005 08:53:14 GMT, "Arfa Daily"
wrote:

Hi all

I am never EVER going to buy another printer from Epson. For years I used
HPs without any problem at all. I then changed to an Epson on the grounds
that the cartridges were cheaper to buy, because the heads weren't built in.
First mistake. The heads used to clog up on a regular basis. OK, it was a
cheap printer, so eventually I threw it away. Stupidly, I allowed a salesman
to talk me into another much more sophisticated model, which had card slots
for printing off my photos. And what does this one do ? Right ... the heads
clog about once a week.

This morning, as I was printing off a circuit diagram, I watched as the
stupid piece of ****e clogged on the black half way through the print. If I
was using garbage inks or refills, I might be able to understand it, but I
have ALWAYS used the genuine article right from the day it came out of the
box.

Of course, there's always the cleaning program. Yeah, right ...

This piece of software is such CRAP, that it can only do ALL of the heads at
once. It usually takes anything up to FOUR runs of this rotten program to
clear a clogged head. Each run uses about a gallon of ink, so by the time
you've got the black unclogged, you've also sprayed about 10 quids worth of
Mag Yell and Cyan into the bottom of the printer for no good reason other
than making the time a bit closer when you've got to line Epson's pocket
again for some more of their ludicrously priced dye.

I read somewhere the other day that home printer ink is the most expensive
fluid on the planet. I can vouch for that.

So, am I just being unlucky, or has anyone else had similar problems ? This
one's close to being drop kicked down the garden ...

Arfa



I have a C60 that I use once a week. I use only Epson cartridges and
it plugs up at least every other time I use it. We have used HPs,
Canons and Lexmarks in the past, none of which plug up. Chuck

Epson printer's are pure crap, at least the one's I've wasted my money
on.
That includes the following models:
Epson Stylus Pro and Pro XL.
Epson Stylus 1500 and the later "Colorado" model.
Epson 800

I have a storage locker full of Epson crap that we had to sideline
because of the constant problems associated with these printers,
namely clogging and loss of seal integrity on the ink tanks.
I'd even managed to burn out the pezio heads on a couple of them
running the endless cleaning cycles Epson insists would "fix" the
banding problems.
We run a pro print shop and in the mid to late 90's saw inexpensive
inkjets as a solution for "spot color" work in our smaller print
runs(offset). Also as a low cost proof system on our bigger four color
work.
The Epson's failed miserably, they were neither reliable enough to
cost effective and Epson never came out with any pantone ink
cartridges that were work a fck.
We finally went with a couple of mid level plotters from Encad and
haven't had any problems since.
We've also purchased a few Lexmark printers as well as two of Canon's
better offerings that have done a bangup job for our low-end work.

I can't emphasize enough that one should stay away from anything
Epson.

Lexmark? Lexmark?? I wish you'd include your company name,
so I can be sure to keep my customers at least 100 feet from it.

Were you using third-party inks?

We had occasional clogs on our old Stylus Color 800, and zero
clogs after nearly a year on our R800. Apparently Epson has
addressed the problem, at least partially.

YEAH, Lexmark. WE have several in use in the front offices as well and
have had NO problems with them what-so-ever.
The brand of ink has little to do with how reliably a printer
performs. If the basic design is flawed it'll clog with whatever ink
you use.

Say no more. You're an airhead.

wrote in message
ups.com...
color laser printers are not as expensive as they used to be, and in
the US, it seems neither is gas heat.

roll with the times I guess


No it's not, natural gas was about 30 cents a therm not too many years ago,
it's been almost a dollar for several years now and is going up to around
$1.20 next month here, makes me glad I put in a heat pump over the summer,
cost to run it is about half what the gas furnace was. I still have the
furnace as backup but hopefully won't have to run it much.

YEAH, Lexmark. WE have several in use in the front offices as well and
have had NO problems with them what-so-ever.
The brand of ink has little to do with how reliably a printer
performs. If the basic design is flawed it'll clog with whatever ink
you use.

Say no more. You're an airhead.



I dunno, I've dealt with one Lexmark printer that ran for years without any
problems at all, I've dealt with a pile of others that were utter trash,
it's entirely possible he just got lucky, he is afterall only speaking from
personal experience.

On Thu, 06 Oct 2005 07:00:07 -0500, none wrote:


YEAH, Lexmark. WE have several in use in the front offices as well and
have had NO problems with them what-so-ever.
The brand of ink has little to do with how reliably a printer
performs. If the basic design is flawed it'll clog with whatever ink
you use.

No, and that is, or at least was, especially true of Epsons. The right
ink is/was critical with them.

Tom

On Fri, 07 Oct 2005 17:50:26 GMT, Tom MacIntyre
wrote:

On Thu, 06 Oct 2005 07:00:07 -0500, none wrote:


YEAH, Lexmark. WE have several in use in the front offices as well and
have had NO problems with them what-so-ever.
The brand of ink has little to do with how reliably a printer
performs. If the basic design is flawed it'll clog with whatever ink
you use.

No, and that is, or at least was, especially true of Epsons. The right
ink is/was critical with them.

Tom

If the aftermarket ink is the same type of ink as the oem it will do
the same job.
Ink for the pizeo printhead printer IS a different type as that for
all the other types of inkjet printers on the market but is easily
duplicated. I used aftermarket ink refills from Nujet for some of my
Epson's that actually flowed BETTER than the oem stuff and gave fewer
clogs once you got the heads cleared and primed.
Problem is Epson made their printers so shoddily that on most it was
virtually impossible to get a tight uniform seal from ANY
cartridge.(seal between the cartridge and the printhead assembly is
achieved with a nitrile rubber o-ring in the cartridge ink port.)
I service all the equipment in our print shop from the AB-Dick and
Heidleburg offsets right down to the lowly inkjet machines and I
stripped down a couple of those older Epson's years back to try and
fix the problems.
The printheads are built of some pretty cheap material and careful
measuring with micrometers showed some pretty gross irregularities in
the seal contact points.( likely **** poor injection molding during
manufacturing.)
On our 1500 it was nothing short of a miracle that we ever got it to
work out of the box.( started clogging and losing seal after the first
month.)
I tried replacing all the nitrile o-rings in the ink cartridges with
slightly fatter seals and it solved the seal loss problem to an extent
but we still had problems with clogging,especially if the machine had
sat for more than a week. Having to run dozens of cleanup sheets to
get it to print one single proof is insane. Perhaps that's why the
collection of Epson printers we have are collecting dust in a storage
closet.

On Fri, 07 Oct 2005 03:50:44 GMT, "James Sweet"
wrote:


YEAH, Lexmark. WE have several in use in the front offices as well and
have had NO problems with them what-so-ever.
The brand of ink has little to do with how reliably a printer
performs. If the basic design is flawed it'll clog with whatever ink
you use.

Say no more. You're an airhead.



I dunno, I've dealt with one Lexmark printer that ran for years without any
problems at all, I've dealt with a pile of others that were utter trash,
it's entirely possible he just got lucky, he is afterall only speaking from
personal experience.


In the office we use the Z42's and they all work jusr fine. I did buy
them as a batch and direct from Lexmark.
I've also had much better success recharging the cartridges for these
machines vs. some of the other makes out there.

Epson Printers ...
 

On Fri, 07 Oct 2005 20:50:19 -0500, none wrote:

On Fri, 07 Oct 2005 17:50:26 GMT, Tom MacIntyre
wrote:

On Thu, 06 Oct 2005 07:00:07 -0500, none wrote:


YEAH, Lexmark. WE have several in use in the front offices as well and
have had NO problems with them what-so-ever.
The brand of ink has little to do with how reliably a printer
performs. If the basic design is flawed it'll clog with whatever ink
you use.

No, and that is, or at least was, especially true of Epsons. The right
ink is/was critical with them.

Tom

If the aftermarket ink is the same type of ink as the oem it will do
the same job.
Ink for the pizeo printhead printer IS a different type as that for
all the other types of inkjet printers on the market but is easily
duplicated. I used aftermarket ink refills from Nujet for some of my
Epson's that actually flowed BETTER than the oem stuff and gave fewer
clogs once you got the heads cleared and primed.
Problem is Epson made their printers so shoddily that on most it was
virtually impossible to get a tight uniform seal from ANY
cartridge.(seal between the cartridge and the printhead assembly is
achieved with a nitrile rubber o-ring in the cartridge ink port.)
I service all the equipment in our print shop from the AB-Dick and
Heidleburg offsets right down to the lowly inkjet machines and I
stripped down a couple of those older Epson's years back to try and
fix the problems.
The printheads are built of some pretty cheap material and careful
measuring with micrometers showed some pretty gross irregularities in
the seal contact points.( likely **** poor injection molding during
manufacturing.)
On our 1500 it was nothing short of a miracle that we ever got it to
work out of the box.( started clogging and losing seal after the first
month.)
I tried replacing all the nitrile o-rings in the ink cartridges with
slightly fatter seals and it solved the seal loss problem to an extent
but we still had problems with clogging,especially if the machine had
sat for more than a week. Having to run dozens of cleanup sheets to
get it to print one single proof is insane. Perhaps that's why the
collection of Epson printers we have are collecting dust in a storage
closet.

I'll have to take your word for it, experience being a better teacher
than training...I was told it was a cold versus hot ink thing...true?

Tom

Epson Printers ...
 

On Sat, 08 Oct 2005 14:46:08 GMT, Tom MacIntyre
wrote:

On Fri, 07 Oct 2005 20:50:19 -0500, none wrote:

On Fri, 07 Oct 2005 17:50:26 GMT, Tom MacIntyre
wrote:

On Thu, 06 Oct 2005 07:00:07 -0500, none wrote:


YEAH, Lexmark. WE have several in use in the front offices as well and
have had NO problems with them what-so-ever.
The brand of ink has little to do with how reliably a printer
performs. If the basic design is flawed it'll clog with whatever ink
you use.

No, and that is, or at least was, especially true of Epsons. The right
ink is/was critical with them.

Tom

If the aftermarket ink is the same type of ink as the oem it will do
the same job.
Ink for the pizeo printhead printer IS a different type as that for
all the other types of inkjet printers on the market but is easily
duplicated. I used aftermarket ink refills from Nujet for some of my
Epson's that actually flowed BETTER than the oem stuff and gave fewer
clogs once you got the heads cleared and primed.
Problem is Epson made their printers so shoddily that on most it was
virtually impossible to get a tight uniform seal from ANY
cartridge.(seal between the cartridge and the printhead assembly is
achieved with a nitrile rubber o-ring in the cartridge ink port.)
I service all the equipment in our print shop from the AB-Dick and
Heidleburg offsets right down to the lowly inkjet machines and I
stripped down a couple of those older Epson's years back to try and
fix the problems.
The printheads are built of some pretty cheap material and careful
measuring with micrometers showed some pretty gross irregularities in
the seal contact points.( likely **** poor injection molding during
manufacturing.)
On our 1500 it was nothing short of a miracle that we ever got it to
work out of the box.( started clogging and losing seal after the first
month.)
I tried replacing all the nitrile o-rings in the ink cartridges with
slightly fatter seals and it solved the seal loss problem to an extent
but we still had problems with clogging,especially if the machine had
sat for more than a week. Having to run dozens of cleanup sheets to
get it to print one single proof is insane. Perhaps that's why the
collection of Epson printers we have are collecting dust in a storage
closet.

I'll have to take your word for it, experience being a better teacher
than training...I was told it was a cold versus hot ink thing...true?

Tom

The pizeo principle is a "cold ink" process.( Epson actually holds the
copyrights/patents for the process)
Other inkjet printers use heater coils to preheat the ink in the ink
tanks. Pizeo once upon a time held the title for for the highest dpi
attainable with inkjet printers, not so anymore. R&D on standard
inkjets finally caught up with Epson around '99.
The thermal printers use a dry ink on a ribbon and a hot pinhead
assembly and in my opinion are the easiest and simplest low cost
solution to achieve photo quality color images.( I've used some of the
most expensive dyesub and laser units in the commercial market and a
low cost 400dpi thermal ribbon printer gets really close for much less
money.)
400dpi with dry ink has virtually no "spread" whilst those wet ink
printers with dpi's in the 1,800's or higher suffer from marked ink
spread/patterning.( unless you use a top grade photo paper, something
not possible if you're trying to output publications etc...)
AS a result that low dpi thermal ribbon printer produces a color print
that has much greater apparent sharpness.
That said great strides have been made in dithering algorithms in
inkjet printers and if you use a good grade of paper decent results
can be achieved with many of the inkjet printers on the market.
It just tends to be more problematic balancing the grade of ink used
and types of paper one has to use.( On alot of print jobs we do we're
forced to use some pretty bad "rag stock" and using an inkjet to drop
in color images here and there can be really trying. We have to use
third party software drivers that allow us to control the volume of
ink flow when printing on paper that's really open fibre.)
On my Encad plotter we have potentiometers that allow us to adjust ink
flow easily.

Epson Printers ...
 

Right! I spent hours of down time dismantling our 1500 and 3000 and
cleaning the heads using an ultrasonic cleaner, only to have them clog
up again after just a few hours.
A total waste of time, especially if you're the basic consumer who
just wants a printer that'll work when you hit the print key.( To some
extent it's justifiable to do PIA maintenence if the printer in
question gives better results when working properly and decent runs
can be had between down cycles.)

I used Canon inkjets for years, but in order to use pigmented fabric
inks I had to get an Epson. Started by finding an old Epson 1520 in a
thrift store, no cartridges, no idea how long it had sat unused. Took
me a couple of weeks to get it printing 100%, but after that it was
flawless. I get obsessed... so I started to pick up various Epson
printers, so I could teach myself how to get them going.

Now I can get just about any Epson unplugged, of course as long as the
heads are not burnt out. I don't disassemble them for this, unless
there's been something like a big ink leak. Never used any ultrasonic
cleaners. Syringes are bad news because it's way too easy to put
upwards of 70psi with little pressure if using a small syringe.

I wrote up some of what I learned, for what it's worth.
http://www.polyphoto.com/tutorials/PrintHeadCleaning/

Steve

Epson Printers ...
 

-All- inkjet printers say not to turn off except by the printer's power
switch. All of them.

Yes, the Standby Park position is the same as the Off Park position,
however the printer does not instantly go into the Standby Park
position and may move out of position for a short time for no apparent
reason.

Careful about shaking cartridges. With older Epsons, they use a sponge
foam filler and you can end up filling the foam with air. With newer
non-sponge cartridges, you can end up with foamy ink and cause a bubble
to get pulled into the head, mimicking a clog and requiring the waste
of loads of ink in cleaning cycles.

I've read notes from people who say they've had Epson cartridges
emptied by about 15 to 20 cleaning cycles.

Also, by the spike design of the print head/cartridge seal, it
virtually guarantees an air bubble will get trapped. You can either
waste ink on cleaning cycles to clear it, or let it sit a day for the
bubble to rise out of the way. This is my experience.