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Default Widlar's Early Treatise on Semiconductors

Widlar's Early Treatise on Semiconductors, so large a file to E-mail,
I put it up on my website so you can download it...

http://www.analog-innovations.com/SED/IntroToSemiconductors_EarlyWidlar.pdf

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson | mens |
| Analog Innovations | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| San Tan Valley, AZ 85142 Skype: skypeanalog | |
| Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
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Default Widlar's Early Treatise on Semiconductors

On Sat, 20 Sep 2014 08:44:31 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:

Widlar's Early Treatise on Semiconductors, so large a file to E-mail,
I put it up on my website so you can download it...

http://www.analog-innovations.com/SED/IntroToSemiconductors_EarlyWidlar.pdf

...Jim Thompson


Note fig 1.4, the military convention for current flow!


--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com

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Default Widlar's Early Treatise on Semiconductors

On Sat, 20 Sep 2014 10:26:42 -0700, John Larkin
wrote:

On Sat, 20 Sep 2014 08:44:31 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:

Widlar's Early Treatise on Semiconductors, so large a file to E-mail,
I put it up on my website so you can download it...

http://www.analog-innovations.com/SED/IntroToSemiconductors_EarlyWidlar.pdf

...Jim Thompson


Note fig 1.4, the military convention for current flow!


That's not the "military" convention, that's the "physics" convention.
Ask Hobbs ;-)

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson | mens |
| Analog Innovations | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| San Tan Valley, AZ 85142 Skype: skypeanalog | |
| Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
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Default Widlar's Early Treatise on Semiconductors

On Sat, 20 Sep 2014 10:31:23 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:

On Sat, 20 Sep 2014 10:26:42 -0700, John Larkin
wrote:

On Sat, 20 Sep 2014 08:44:31 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:

Widlar's Early Treatise on Semiconductors, so large a file to E-mail,
I put it up on my website so you can download it...

http://www.analog-innovations.com/SED/IntroToSemiconductors_EarlyWidlar.pdf

...Jim Thompson


Note fig 1.4, the military convention for current flow!


That's not the "military" convention, that's the "physics" convention.
Ask Hobbs ;-)

...Jim Thompson


The US military, and a couple of the Heald-class trade schools, taught
electron-flow convention. That messed up a lot of people.

I took physics in college, and EE courses simultaneously, and both
used the conventional current flow sign.


--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com

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Default Widlar's Early Treatise on Semiconductors

"John Larkin" wrote in message
...

On Sat, 20 Sep 2014 08:44:31 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:

Widlar's Early Treatise on Semiconductors, so large a file to E-mail,
I put it up on my website so you can download it...


http://www.analog-innovations.com/SED/IntroToSemiconductors_EarlyWidlar.pdf



...Jim Thompson

Note fig 1.4, the military convention for current flow!



Ho humm... it's current. Period. Current means charge flow. Charge flow flow
don't make sense.



Kevin Aylward
www.kevinaylward.co.uk
www.anasoft.co.uk - SuperSpice



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Default Widlar's Early Treatise on Semiconductors

On 9/20/2014 1:45 PM, Kevin Aylward wrote:
"John Larkin" wrote in message
...

On Sat, 20 Sep 2014 08:44:31 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:

Widlar's Early Treatise on Semiconductors, so large a file to E-mail,
I put it up on my website so you can download it...


http://www.analog-innovations.com/SED/IntroToSemiconductors_EarlyWidlar.pdf



...Jim Thompson

Note fig 1.4, the military convention for current flow!



Ho humm... it's current. Period. Current means charge flow. Charge flow
flow don't make sense.



Kevin Aylward
www.kevinaylward.co.uk
www.anasoft.co.uk - SuperSpice


Yay, Kevin, good comment!
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Default Widlar's Early Treatise on Semiconductors

On Sat, 20 Sep 2014 11:08:23 -0700, John Larkin
wrote:

On Sat, 20 Sep 2014 10:31:23 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:

On Sat, 20 Sep 2014 10:26:42 -0700, John Larkin
wrote:

On Sat, 20 Sep 2014 08:44:31 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:

Widlar's Early Treatise on Semiconductors, so large a file to E-mail,
I put it up on my website so you can download it...

http://www.analog-innovations.com/SED/IntroToSemiconductors_EarlyWidlar.pdf

...Jim Thompson

Note fig 1.4, the military convention for current flow!


That's not the "military" convention, that's the "physics" convention.
Ask Hobbs ;-)

...Jim Thompson


The US military, and a couple of the Heald-class trade schools, taught
electron-flow convention. That messed up a lot of people.

I took physics in college, and EE courses simultaneously, and both
used the conventional current flow sign.


At MIT, in the Physics department, I took only Classical Mechanics and
Quantum Physics.

Electromagnetics was under the EE department, as were Germanium
transistors ;-)

Advanced Mechanics (and Strength of Materials) I took under the ME
department (I was in the Honors EE Program and had to take "electives"
as if I were majoring in that department).

And lots of annoying Chemistry classes :-(

But great fun with 5 semesters of Calculus thru tensors.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson | mens |
| Analog Innovations | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| San Tan Valley, AZ 85142 Skype: skypeanalog | |
| Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
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Default Widlar's Early Treatise on Semiconductors

On 9/20/2014 2:45 PM, Kevin Aylward wrote:
"John Larkin" wrote in message
...

On Sat, 20 Sep 2014 08:44:31 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:

Widlar's Early Treatise on Semiconductors, so large a file to E-mail,
I put it up on my website so you can download it...


http://www.analog-innovations.com/SED/IntroToSemiconductors_EarlyWidlar.pdf



...Jim Thompson

Note fig 1.4, the military convention for current flow!



Ho humm... it's current. Period. Current means charge flow. Charge flow
flow don't make sense.


Nah, there's current density, current crowding, current hogging,
displacement current, and all sorts of things that aren't just current.

Displacement current especially--that exists in a charge-free vacuum, so
"current" ain't just charge flow.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics

160 North State Road #203
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

hobbs at electrooptical dot net
http://electrooptical.net
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Default Widlar's Early Treatise on Semiconductors

On 9/20/2014 3:20 PM, Jim Thompson wrote:
On Sat, 20 Sep 2014 11:08:23 -0700, John Larkin
wrote:

On Sat, 20 Sep 2014 10:31:23 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:

On Sat, 20 Sep 2014 10:26:42 -0700, John Larkin
wrote:

On Sat, 20 Sep 2014 08:44:31 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:

Widlar's Early Treatise on Semiconductors, so large a file to E-mail,
I put it up on my website so you can download it...

http://www.analog-innovations.com/SED/IntroToSemiconductors_EarlyWidlar.pdf

...Jim Thompson

Note fig 1.4, the military convention for current flow!

That's not the "military" convention, that's the "physics" convention.
Ask Hobbs ;-)

...Jim Thompson


The US military, and a couple of the Heald-class trade schools, taught
electron-flow convention. That messed up a lot of people.

I took physics in college, and EE courses simultaneously, and both
used the conventional current flow sign.


At MIT, in the Physics department, I took only Classical Mechanics and
Quantum Physics.

Electromagnetics was under the EE department, as were Germanium
transistors ;-)

Advanced Mechanics (and Strength of Materials) I took under the ME
department (I was in the Honors EE Program and had to take "electives"
as if I were majoring in that department).

And lots of annoying Chemistry classes :-(

But great fun with 5 semesters of Calculus thru tensors.

...Jim Thompson

Only 5 semesters of math? What were you, the layout guy?

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics

160 North State Road #203
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

hobbs at electrooptical dot net
http://electrooptical.net
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Default Widlar's Early Treatise on Semiconductors

On Sat, 20 Sep 2014 15:32:36 -0400, Phil Hobbs
wrote:

On 9/20/2014 3:20 PM, Jim Thompson wrote:
On Sat, 20 Sep 2014 11:08:23 -0700, John Larkin
wrote:

On Sat, 20 Sep 2014 10:31:23 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:

On Sat, 20 Sep 2014 10:26:42 -0700, John Larkin
wrote:

On Sat, 20 Sep 2014 08:44:31 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:

Widlar's Early Treatise on Semiconductors, so large a file to E-mail,
I put it up on my website so you can download it...

http://www.analog-innovations.com/SED/IntroToSemiconductors_EarlyWidlar.pdf

...Jim Thompson

Note fig 1.4, the military convention for current flow!

That's not the "military" convention, that's the "physics" convention.
Ask Hobbs ;-)

...Jim Thompson

The US military, and a couple of the Heald-class trade schools, taught
electron-flow convention. That messed up a lot of people.

I took physics in college, and EE courses simultaneously, and both
used the conventional current flow sign.


At MIT, in the Physics department, I took only Classical Mechanics and
Quantum Physics.


We had two semesters of general physics, taught by the Physics
department. It was classical mechanics and some electricity, up to the
point of solving simple DC circuits.

Electromagnetics was under the EE department, as were Germanium
transistors ;-)

Advanced Mechanics (and Strength of Materials) I took under the ME
department (I was in the Honors EE Program and had to take "electives"
as if I were majoring in that department).

And lots of annoying Chemistry classes :-(


Yeah, chemistry was horrible.


But great fun with 5 semesters of Calculus thru tensors.

...Jim Thompson

Only 5 semesters of math? What were you, the layout guy?

Cheers

Phil Hobbs


I had about a week of calculus. Our PhD math instructor was gaga for
set theory, so spend most of the time on that. He covered calculus as
quick as he could. Our EE Electromagnetics instructor was brilliant,
lazy, and had such a thick Japanese accent that nobody could
understand him. He was also our EE lab instructor; he'd leave after 5
minutes, we'd leave after 10, and we faked all the lab reports in one
all-nighter at the end of the semester. If you know enough to fake the
lab data, you know enough.

That's when I started doing system simulations, first on an HP9100
programmable calculator, then a PDP-8, then a PDP-11. My first
close-loop controller design was for a 32,000 HP steamship, and it
behaved just like the sim. The loop was wildly nonlinear, not suited
at all to analytical solutions.




--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com



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Default Widlar's Early Treatise on Semiconductors

On Sat, 20 Sep 2014 14:18:59 -0700, John Larkin
wrote:

[snip]
If you know enough to fake the
lab data, you know enough.


Absolutely! At MIT we called it "dry lab" ;-)

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson | mens |
| Analog Innovations | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| San Tan Valley, AZ 85142 Skype: skypeanalog | |
| Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
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Default Widlar's Early Treatise on Semiconductors

On Sat, 20 Sep 2014 14:23:20 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:

On Sat, 20 Sep 2014 14:18:59 -0700, John Larkin
wrote:

[snip]
If you know enough to fake the
lab data, you know enough.


Absolutely! At MIT we called it "dry lab" ;-)

...Jim Thompson


I developed a technique for sloppy slide-rule slipping, that made
beautiful curves with nice experimental point scatter. Looked great.

The few guys who did stay and do the work didn't get such good grades.
My slide rule worked better than the klunky lab equipment.


--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com

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Default Widlar's Early Treatise on Semiconductors

On Sat, 20 Sep 2014 19:45:59 +0100, "Kevin Aylward"
wrote:

"John Larkin" wrote in message
.. .

On Sat, 20 Sep 2014 08:44:31 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:

Widlar's Early Treatise on Semiconductors, so large a file to E-mail,
I put it up on my website so you can download it...


http://www.analog-innovations.com/SED/IntroToSemiconductors_EarlyWidlar.pdf



...Jim Thompson

Note fig 1.4, the military convention for current flow!



Ho humm... it's current. Period. Current means charge flow. Charge flow flow
don't make sense.


My current flows. Maybe yours just pools up on the floor or something.


--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com

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Default Widlar's Early Treatise on Semiconductors

On Sat, 20 Sep 2014 14:23:20 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:

On Sat, 20 Sep 2014 14:18:59 -0700, John Larkin
wrote:

[snip]
If you know enough to fake the
lab data, you know enough.


Well, you also have to know enough to get the wrong answer, by the
right amount, particularly in chem labs.

Absolutely! At MIT we called it "dry lab" ;-)


Same at UIUC. I only did it for chem, though. Hopeless courses with
even less useful labs, intended only to waste *loads* of time and thin
the herd. Physics wasn't much different. It was only next to useless
(third semester was absurd).
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Default Widlar's Early Treatise on Semiconductors

On 9/20/2014 5:37 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 20 Sep 2014 14:23:20 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:

On Sat, 20 Sep 2014 14:18:59 -0700, John Larkin
wrote:

[snip]
If you know enough to fake the
lab data, you know enough.


Well, you also have to know enough to get the wrong answer, by the
right amount, particularly in chem labs.

Absolutely! At MIT we called it "dry lab" ;-)


Same at UIUC. I only did it for chem, though. Hopeless courses with
even less useful labs, intended only to waste *loads* of time and thin
the herd. Physics wasn't much different. It was only next to useless
(third semester was absurd).


Wow. No wonder you guys like simulation so much.

The lab courses I was in (three physics, one chemistry, and one
astronomy at UBC and one in physics at Stanford) were taught well, had
profs that hung around, TAs that knew your name and saw how you worked,
and (usually) a long-serving engineering technician who would answer
questions, keep the apparatus working, and take no BS whatsoever. (The
guy at UBC Physics was Wolf Breuer, a great man in his way, and the one
at Stanford was Eric Gustafson, who ran out of money as a grad student
and had to take the lab job, but later finished his Ph.D. and did some
good work elsewhere, iirc.)

Slacking off in the lab would have attracted immediate and very
unfavourable notice in either place.

I hope and expect that you guys are mostly just bragging, but either
way, it's entirely misguided.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics

160 North State Road #203
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

hobbs at electrooptical dot net
http://electrooptical.net


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Default Widlar's Early Treatise on Semiconductors

On Sat, 20 Sep 2014 17:54:56 -0400, Phil Hobbs
wrote:

On 9/20/2014 5:37 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 20 Sep 2014 14:23:20 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:

On Sat, 20 Sep 2014 14:18:59 -0700, John Larkin
wrote:

[snip]
If you know enough to fake the
lab data, you know enough.


Well, you also have to know enough to get the wrong answer, by the
right amount, particularly in chem labs.

Absolutely! At MIT we called it "dry lab" ;-)


Same at UIUC. I only did it for chem, though. Hopeless courses with
even less useful labs, intended only to waste *loads* of time and thin
the herd. Physics wasn't much different. It was only next to useless
(third semester was absurd).


Wow. No wonder you guys like simulation so much.

The lab courses I was in (three physics, one chemistry, and one
astronomy at UBC and one in physics at Stanford) were taught well, had
profs that hung around, TAs that knew your name and saw how you worked,
and (usually) a long-serving engineering technician who would answer
questions, keep the apparatus working, and take no BS whatsoever. (The
guy at UBC Physics was Wolf Breuer, a great man in his way, and the one
at Stanford was Eric Gustafson, who ran out of money as a grad student
and had to take the lab job, but later finished his Ph.D. and did some
good work elsewhere, iirc.)

Slacking off in the lab would have attracted immediate and very
unfavourable notice in either place.

I hope and expect that you guys are mostly just bragging, but either
way, it's entirely misguided.


No, I really cut the EE labs and faked the reports. I'd done far more
sophisticated stuff when I was in Junior High school.

In one case, the task was to plot the frequency response of a class A
tube amp. I got the curve right because I didn't do the experiment.
The people who did do it got a flat DC-to-daylight curve, because the
shared lab B+ supply had 50 volts p-p of ripple.

I did stay for the Electrical Machinery labs, big motors and
generators and transformers and stuff. That was fun.


--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com

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Default Widlar's Early Treatise on Semiconductors

On Sat, 20 Sep 2014 14:34:10 -0700, John Larkin
wrote:

On Sat, 20 Sep 2014 14:23:20 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:

On Sat, 20 Sep 2014 14:18:59 -0700, John Larkin
wrote:

[snip]
If you know enough to fake the
lab data, you know enough.


Absolutely! At MIT we called it "dry lab" ;-)

...Jim Thompson


I developed a technique for sloppy slide-rule slipping, that made
beautiful curves with nice experimental point scatter. Looked great.

The few guys who did stay and do the work didn't get such good grades.
My slide rule worked better than the klunky lab equipment.


As you say, if you know the material, fudging the data points is
trivial ;-)

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson | mens |
| Analog Innovations | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| San Tan Valley, AZ 85142 Skype: skypeanalog | |
| Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
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Default Widlar's Early Treatise on Semiconductors

On Sat, 20 Sep 2014 15:02:00 -0700, John Larkin
wrote:

On Sat, 20 Sep 2014 17:54:56 -0400, Phil Hobbs
wrote:

[snip]

Slacking off in the lab would have attracted immediate and very
unfavourable notice in either place.

I hope and expect that you guys are mostly just bragging, but either
way, it's entirely misguided.


No, I really cut the EE labs and faked the reports. I'd done far more
sophisticated stuff when I was in Junior High school.

In one case, the task was to plot the frequency response of a class A
tube amp. I got the curve right because I didn't do the experiment.
The people who did do it got a flat DC-to-daylight curve, because the
shared lab B+ supply had 50 volts p-p of ripple.

I did stay for the Electrical Machinery labs, big motors and
generators and transformers and stuff. That was fun.


Yep. I liked machine lab as well. And testing the premise that
disconnecting the field would cause run-away... it did :-}

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson | mens |
| Analog Innovations | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| San Tan Valley, AZ 85142 Skype: skypeanalog | |
| Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
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Default Widlar's Early Treatise on Semiconductors

On Sat, 20 Sep 2014 17:54:56 -0400, Phil Hobbs
wrote:

On 9/20/2014 5:37 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 20 Sep 2014 14:23:20 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:

On Sat, 20 Sep 2014 14:18:59 -0700, John Larkin
wrote:

[snip]
If you know enough to fake the
lab data, you know enough.


Well, you also have to know enough to get the wrong answer, by the
right amount, particularly in chem labs.

Absolutely! At MIT we called it "dry lab" ;-)


Same at UIUC. I only did it for chem, though. Hopeless courses with
even less useful labs, intended only to waste *loads* of time and thin
the herd. Physics wasn't much different. It was only next to useless
(third semester was absurd).


Wow. No wonder you guys like simulation so much.


Me? Like simulation? I only use it for things like series filters
and a few other things. I can't stand the models board level
designers are forced to use, so don't trust anything but "ideal"
components. At least I know what I'm simulating.

The lab courses I was in (three physics, one chemistry, and one
astronomy at UBC and one in physics at Stanford) were taught well, had
profs that hung around, TAs that knew your name and saw how you worked,
and (usually) a long-serving engineering technician who would answer
questions, keep the apparatus working, and take no BS whatsoever. (The
guy at UBC Physics was Wolf Breuer, a great man in his way, and the one
at Stanford was Eric Gustafson, who ran out of money as a grad student
and had to take the lab job, but later finished his Ph.D. and did some
good work elsewhere, iirc.)


The TAs in chemistry and physics weren't so bad but the classes, and
in particular, the labs were horrible. That's on the full prof
running the show, not on the poor droid carrying out the orders.

Slacking off in the lab would have attracted immediate and very
unfavourable notice in either place.


Who said anything about slacking off? The labs, particularly the chem
labs, just didn't work and, even with all of the time they wasted
(under penalty of the grade) weren't long enough to finish the project
it *anything* went wrong.

I hope and expect that you guys are mostly just bragging, but either
way, it's entirely misguided.


With chem and physics? Not a chance. The courses were really bad
(and got worse with each one. The third semester of physics was
optics AND quantum. The curve was bimodal with 40% between 90 and
100, and 40% 20 on the exams. Tell me that this makes a good
course. They even admitted that it was a flunk-out course and didn't
really expect anyone to learn anything about either subject.

The EE courses were the opposite - very good, with few exceptions (one
soon learned which profs to steer clear of). Math was pretty good,
too, and even got better as we went along (as the flunk-out quotas
were met). The only reason for chemistry and physics was to flunk
students out.

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Default Widlar's Early Treatise on Semiconductors

On 9/20/2014 7:47 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 20 Sep 2014 17:54:56 -0400, Phil Hobbs
wrote:

On 9/20/2014 5:37 PM,
wrote:
On Sat, 20 Sep 2014 14:23:20 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:

On Sat, 20 Sep 2014 14:18:59 -0700, John Larkin
wrote:

[snip]
If you know enough to fake the
lab data, you know enough.

Well, you also have to know enough to get the wrong answer, by the
right amount, particularly in chem labs.

Absolutely! At MIT we called it "dry lab" ;-)

Same at UIUC. I only did it for chem, though. Hopeless courses with
even less useful labs, intended only to waste *loads* of time and thin
the herd. Physics wasn't much different. It was only next to useless
(third semester was absurd).


Wow. No wonder you guys like simulation so much.


Me? Like simulation? I only use it for things like series filters
and a few other things. I can't stand the models board level
designers are forced to use, so don't trust anything but "ideal"
components. At least I know what I'm simulating.

The lab courses I was in (three physics, one chemistry, and one
astronomy at UBC and one in physics at Stanford) were taught well, had
profs that hung around, TAs that knew your name and saw how you worked,
and (usually) a long-serving engineering technician who would answer
questions, keep the apparatus working, and take no BS whatsoever. (The
guy at UBC Physics was Wolf Breuer, a great man in his way, and the one
at Stanford was Eric Gustafson, who ran out of money as a grad student
and had to take the lab job, but later finished his Ph.D. and did some
good work elsewhere, iirc.)


The TAs in chemistry and physics weren't so bad but the classes, and
in particular, the labs were horrible. That's on the full prof
running the show, not on the poor droid carrying out the orders.

Slacking off in the lab would have attracted immediate and very
unfavourable notice in either place.


Who said anything about slacking off?The labs, particularly the chem
labs, just didn't work and, even with all of the time they wasted
(under penalty of the grade) weren't long enough to finish the project
it *anything* went wrong.


Sorry, but that's the sort of argument I expect from the climate crooks
at East Anglia. Fudging data is a big no-no.


I hope and expect that you guys are mostly just bragging, but either
way, it's entirely misguided.


With chem and physics? Not a chance. The courses were really bad
(and got worse with each one. The third semester of physics was
optics AND quantum. The curve was bimodal with 40% between 90 and
100, and 40% 20 on the exams. Tell me that this makes a good
course. They even admitted that it was a flunk-out course and didn't
really expect anyone to learn anything about either subject.


Dunno about the course. That's the prof's responsibility. How we
handle it is ours.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs


--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics

160 North State Road #203
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

hobbs at electrooptical dot net
http://electrooptical.net


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Default Widlar's Early Treatise on Semiconductors

On Sat, 20 Sep 2014 22:17:28 -0400, Phil Hobbs
wrote:

On 9/20/2014 7:47 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 20 Sep 2014 17:54:56 -0400, Phil Hobbs
wrote:

On 9/20/2014 5:37 PM,
wrote:
On Sat, 20 Sep 2014 14:23:20 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:

On Sat, 20 Sep 2014 14:18:59 -0700, John Larkin
wrote:

[snip]
If you know enough to fake the
lab data, you know enough.

Well, you also have to know enough to get the wrong answer, by the
right amount, particularly in chem labs.

Absolutely! At MIT we called it "dry lab" ;-)

Same at UIUC. I only did it for chem, though. Hopeless courses with
even less useful labs, intended only to waste *loads* of time and thin
the herd. Physics wasn't much different. It was only next to useless
(third semester was absurd).


Wow. No wonder you guys like simulation so much.


Me? Like simulation? I only use it for things like series filters
and a few other things. I can't stand the models board level
designers are forced to use, so don't trust anything but "ideal"
components. At least I know what I'm simulating.

The lab courses I was in (three physics, one chemistry, and one
astronomy at UBC and one in physics at Stanford) were taught well, had
profs that hung around, TAs that knew your name and saw how you worked,
and (usually) a long-serving engineering technician who would answer
questions, keep the apparatus working, and take no BS whatsoever. (The
guy at UBC Physics was Wolf Breuer, a great man in his way, and the one
at Stanford was Eric Gustafson, who ran out of money as a grad student
and had to take the lab job, but later finished his Ph.D. and did some
good work elsewhere, iirc.)


The TAs in chemistry and physics weren't so bad but the classes, and
in particular, the labs were horrible. That's on the full prof
running the show, not on the poor droid carrying out the orders.

Slacking off in the lab would have attracted immediate and very
unfavourable notice in either place.


Who said anything about slacking off?The labs, particularly the chem
labs, just didn't work and, even with all of the time they wasted
(under penalty of the grade) weren't long enough to finish the project
it *anything* went wrong.


Sorry, but that's the sort of argument I expect from the climate crooks
at East Anglia. Fudging data is a big no-no.


The choice was that or flunk the course. They didn't care either way.
That's what they wanted, in fact. They had their target.

I hope and expect that you guys are mostly just bragging, but either
way, it's entirely misguided.


With chem and physics? Not a chance. The courses were really bad
(and got worse with each one. The third semester of physics was
optics AND quantum. The curve was bimodal with 40% between 90 and
100, and 40% 20 on the exams. Tell me that this makes a good
course. They even admitted that it was a flunk-out course and didn't
really expect anyone to learn anything about either subject.


Dunno about the course. That's the prof's responsibility. How we
handle it is ours.


Survival.
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Default Widlar's Early Treatise on Semiconductors

On 21/09/2014 12:17 PM, Phil Hobbs wrote:
On 9/20/2014 7:47 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 20 Sep 2014 17:54:56 -0400, Phil Hobbs
wrote:
On 9/20/2014 5:37 PM,
wrote:
On Sat, 20 Sep 2014 14:23:20 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:
On Sat, 20 Sep 2014 14:18:59 -0700, John Larkin
wrote:


[snip]

Slacking off in the lab would have attracted immediate and very
unfavourable notice in either place.


Who said anything about slacking off?The labs, particularly the chem
labs, just didn't work and, even with all of the time they wasted
(under penalty of the grade) weren't long enough to finish the project
it *anything* went wrong.


Sorry, but that's the sort of argument I expect from the climate crooks
at East Anglia. Fudging data is a big no-no.


Fudging data is a big no-no, but there's absolutely no evidence that the
climate guys at East Anglia - Climategate - did anything of the sort.

The denialist propaganda machine blew a lot of smoke about it, but Fred
Pearce's "The Climate Files"

http://www.amazon.com/The-Climate-Fi.../dp/0852652291

clears them of any data-fudging. Fred Pearce didn't like the way they
went after a crooked editor at some minor climate science journal, who
published a denialist-planted paper despite it being rejected by four
referees, but that's because he's a typical UK science journalist who
knows very little about how science actually works.

I hope and expect that you guys are mostly just bragging, but either
way, it's entirely misguided.


Agreed.

With chem and physics? Not a chance. The courses were really bad
(and got worse with each one. The third semester of physics was
optics AND quantum. The curve was bimodal with 40% between 90 and
100, and 40% 20 on the exams. Tell me that this makes a good
course. They even admitted that it was a flunk-out course and didn't
really expect anyone to learn anything about either subject.


Dunno about the course. That's the prof's responsibility. How we
handle it is ours.


Absolutely. You can learn stuff even if it is less well-presented than
it might be. And semi-conductor physics wouldn't exist without a lot of
high-powered chemistry.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

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Default Widlar's Early Treatise on Semiconductors

Jim Thompson wrote:
Widlar's Early Treatise on Semiconductors, so large a file to E-mail,
I put it up on my website so you can download it...

http://www.analog-innovations.com/SED/IntroToSemiconductors_EarlyWidlar.pdf

...Jim Thompson

Thanks!!!

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