In article ,
John Fields wrote:

begin 644 Hand calcs0003.pdf

LOL! Isn't that one of the early "150 in one" finger shocker circuits
that didn't work.

The transformer saturates before the relay engages. If the 1.5V battery
can overcome the transformer's current, it turns into a little arc lamp
because the voltage rises too fast for the contacts to open.

There are a few working variations of the relay transformer driver.
It's how tubes were driven from batteries in the old days. (Hint: add a
capacitor)

On Mon, 10 Feb 2014 00:11:40 -0800, Kevin McMurtrie
wrote:

In article ,
John Fields wrote:

begin 644 Hand calcs0003.pdf

LOL! Isn't that one of the early "150 in one" finger shocker circuits
that didn't work.

---
Dunno, but I've gotten hit with HV off the secondary when a few
volts across the primary was disconnected.
---

The transformer saturates before the relay engages.

---
That depends on the transformer's primary's inductance, the
transformer's saturation current, and the relay's actuation time.
---

If the 1.5V battery
can overcome the transformer's current, it turns into a little arc lamp
because the voltage rises too fast for the contacts to open.

---
I don't understand.
If the contacts don't open where does the arc come from?
---

There are a few working variations of the relay transformer driver.
It's how tubes were driven from batteries in the old days. (Hint: add a
capacitor)

---
Actually, in the old days, B+ for the tubes was obtained from a
low-voltage battery (usually a 6 volt "A" battery) and a vibrator
driving the primary of a transformer.

Here's a beauty for your perusal:

http://www.tubebooks.org/Books/mallory_vibe.pdf

They were also used as synchronous rectifiers, so the rectifier tube
could be done away with:

http://www.radioremembered.org/vpwrsup.htm

On Tue, 11 Feb 2014 19:48:19 -0800, josephkk
wrote:

On Mon, 10 Feb 2014 00:11:40 -0800, Kevin McMurtrie
wrote:

In article ,
John Fields wrote:

begin 644 Hand calcs0003.pdf

LOL! Isn't that one of the early "150 in one" finger shocker circuits
that didn't work.

The transformer saturates before the relay engages. If the 1.5V battery
can overcome the transformer's current, it turns into a little arc lamp
because the voltage rises too fast for the contacts to open.

There are a few working variations of the relay transformer driver.
It's how tubes were driven from batteries in the old days. (Hint: add a
capacitor)

I had the occasion to work on vibrator power supply radios a few times.
They did some strange things in those.

?-)

Not a good thing when you're a teenager parking in lover's lane... ate
batteries like no tomorrow... my 1950 Nash with the reclining seats
had a ten watt audio system run off a vibrator pack ;-)

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson | mens |
| Analog Innovations | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| San Tan Valley, AZ 85142 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

On Tue, 11 Feb 2014 20:03:34 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:

On Tue, 11 Feb 2014 19:48:19 -0800, josephkk
wrote:

On Mon, 10 Feb 2014 00:11:40 -0800, Kevin McMurtrie
wrote:

In article ,
John Fields wrote:

begin 644 Hand calcs0003.pdf

LOL! Isn't that one of the early "150 in one" finger shocker circuits
that didn't work.

The transformer saturates before the relay engages. If the 1.5V battery
can overcome the transformer's current, it turns into a little arc lamp
because the voltage rises too fast for the contacts to open.

There are a few working variations of the relay transformer driver.
It's how tubes were driven from batteries in the old days. (Hint: add a
capacitor)

I had the occasion to work on vibrator power supply radios a few times.
They did some strange things in those.

?-)

Not a good thing when you're a teenager parking in lover's lane... ate
batteries like no tomorrow... my 1950 Nash with the reclining seats
had a ten watt audio system run off a vibrator pack ;-)

...Jim Thompson

And the filter choke was the field coil of the woofer ;-)

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson | mens |
| Analog Innovations | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| San Tan Valley, AZ 85142 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

On Mon, 10 Feb 2014 00:11:40 -0800, Kevin McMurtrie
wrote:

In article ,
John Fields wrote:

begin 644 Hand calcs0003.pdf

LOL! Isn't that one of the early "150 in one" finger shocker circuits
that didn't work.

The transformer saturates before the relay engages. If the 1.5V battery
can overcome the transformer's current, it turns into a little arc lamp
because the voltage rises too fast for the contacts to open.

There are a few working variations of the relay transformer driver.
It's how tubes were driven from batteries in the old days. (Hint: add a
capacitor)

I had the occasion to work on vibrator power supply radios a few times.
They did some strange things in those.

?-)

In article ,
John Fields wrote:

On Mon, 10 Feb 2014 00:11:40 -0800, Kevin McMurtrie
wrote:

In article ,
John Fields wrote:

begin 644 Hand calcs0003.pdf

LOL! Isn't that one of the early "150 in one" finger shocker circuits
that didn't work.

---
Dunno, but I've gotten hit with HV off the secondary when a few
volts across the primary was disconnected.
---

The transformer saturates before the relay engages.

---
That depends on the transformer's primary's inductance, the
transformer's saturation current, and the relay's actuation time.
---

If the 1.5V battery
can overcome the transformer's current, it turns into a little arc lamp
because the voltage rises too fast for the contacts to open.

---
I don't understand.
If the contacts don't open where does the arc come from?
---

Inductors are constant current sources for small periods of time. As
the relay contacts begin to separate, the voltage will rise as fast as
needed to maintain current flow. It draws a very tiny but brilliant
little arc. The arc doesn't quench because the coil provides negative
feedback, keeping the gap the perfect size for that tiny arc.

It's how carbon arc lamps work. You can try it with a relay and an
inductor now. It might chatter as you'd hope for a while but eventually
it will fall into a steady state of an arc. (A relay by itself usually
doesn't arc because it has a shorted path in the coil to reduce
inductance.)

A capacitor slows the rise of voltage so that the contacts can finish
opening without arcing.


There are a few working variations of the relay transformer driver.
It's how tubes were driven from batteries in the old days. (Hint: add a
capacitor)

---
Actually, in the old days, B+ for the tubes was obtained from a
low-voltage battery (usually a 6 volt "A" battery) and a vibrator
driving the primary of a transformer.

Here's a beauty for your perusal:

http://www.tubebooks.org/Books/mallory_vibe.pdf

They were also used as synchronous rectifiers, so the rectifier tube
could be done away with:

http://www.radioremembered.org/vpwrsup.htm

On Tue, 11 Feb 2014 20:03:34 -0700 Jim Thompson
wrote in Message id:
:

On Tue, 11 Feb 2014 19:48:19 -0800, josephkk
wrote:

On Mon, 10 Feb 2014 00:11:40 -0800, Kevin McMurtrie
wrote:

In article ,
John Fields wrote:

begin 644 Hand calcs0003.pdf

LOL! Isn't that one of the early "150 in one" finger shocker circuits
that didn't work.

The transformer saturates before the relay engages. If the 1.5V battery
can overcome the transformer's current, it turns into a little arc lamp
because the voltage rises too fast for the contacts to open.

There are a few working variations of the relay transformer driver.
It's how tubes were driven from batteries in the old days. (Hint: add a
capacitor)

I had the occasion to work on vibrator power supply radios a few times.
They did some strange things in those.

?-)

Not a good thing when you're a teenager parking in lover's lane...

Who needs a vibrator in lover's lane?

On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 06:49:10 -0500, JW wrote:

On Tue, 11 Feb 2014 20:03:34 -0700 Jim Thompson
wrote in Message id:
:

On Tue, 11 Feb 2014 19:48:19 -0800, josephkk
wrote:

On Mon, 10 Feb 2014 00:11:40 -0800, Kevin McMurtrie
wrote:

In article ,
John Fields wrote:

begin 644 Hand calcs0003.pdf

LOL! Isn't that one of the early "150 in one" finger shocker circuits
that didn't work.

The transformer saturates before the relay engages. If the 1.5V battery
can overcome the transformer's current, it turns into a little arc lamp
because the voltage rises too fast for the contacts to open.

There are a few working variations of the relay transformer driver.
It's how tubes were driven from batteries in the old days. (Hint: add a
capacitor)

I had the occasion to work on vibrator power supply radios a few times.
They did some strange things in those.

?-)

Not a good thing when you're a teenager parking in lover's lane...

Who needs a vibrator in lover's lane?

:-D

The audio section of that radio took up a good portion of the trunk.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson | mens |
| Analog Innovations | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| San Tan Valley, AZ 85142 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

On Thu, 13 Feb 2014 00:05:22 +1000, Jim Thompson
wrote:

On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 06:49:10 -0500, JW wrote:

On Tue, 11 Feb 2014 20:03:34 -0700 Jim Thompson
wrote in Message id:
:

On Tue, 11 Feb 2014 19:48:19 -0800, josephkk
wrote:

On Mon, 10 Feb 2014 00:11:40 -0800, Kevin McMurtrie
wrote:

In article ,
John Fields wrote:

begin 644 Hand calcs0003.pdf

LOL! Isn't that one of the early "150 in one" finger shocker
circuits
that didn't work.

The transformer saturates before the relay engages. If the 1.5V
battery
can overcome the transformer's current, it turns into a little arc
lamp
because the voltage rises too fast for the contacts to open.

There are a few working variations of the relay transformer driver.
It's how tubes were driven from batteries in the old days. (Hint:
add a
capacitor)

I had the occasion to work on vibrator power supply radios a few
times.
They did some strange things in those.

?-)

Not a good thing when you're a teenager parking in lover's lane...

Who needs a vibrator in lover's lane?

:-D

The audio section of that radio took up a good portion of the trunk.

...Jim Thompson

50 years ago if you reminisced about a vibrator power supply everyone knew
exactly what you were talking about. In a few more years you won't be able
to mention it in polite company without first giving a detailed
description first - and even then some people will still think you are
being obscene . Ahh, the wonders of progress.

On Thu, 13 Feb 2014 09:12:17 +1000, "David Eather"
wrote:

On Thu, 13 Feb 2014 00:05:22 +1000, Jim Thompson
wrote:

On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 06:49:10 -0500, JW wrote:

On Tue, 11 Feb 2014 20:03:34 -0700 Jim Thompson
wrote in Message id:
:

On Tue, 11 Feb 2014 19:48:19 -0800, josephkk
wrote:

On Mon, 10 Feb 2014 00:11:40 -0800, Kevin McMurtrie
wrote:

In article ,
John Fields wrote:

begin 644 Hand calcs0003.pdf

LOL! Isn't that one of the early "150 in one" finger shocker
circuits
that didn't work.

The transformer saturates before the relay engages. If the 1.5V
battery
can overcome the transformer's current, it turns into a little arc
lamp
because the voltage rises too fast for the contacts to open.

There are a few working variations of the relay transformer driver.
It's how tubes were driven from batteries in the old days. (Hint:
add a
capacitor)

I had the occasion to work on vibrator power supply radios a few
times.
They did some strange things in those.

?-)

Not a good thing when you're a teenager parking in lover's lane...

Who needs a vibrator in lover's lane?

:-D

The audio section of that radio took up a good portion of the trunk.

...Jim Thompson

50 years ago if you reminisced about a vibrator power supply everyone knew
exactly what you were talking about. In a few more years you won't be able
to mention it in polite company without first giving a detailed
description first - and even then some people will still think you are
being obscene . Ahh, the wonders of progress.

Indeed. Some here would be astonished that some vibrator packs didn't
need rectifiers, they had synchronous output reeds.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson | mens |
| Analog Innovations | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| San Tan Valley, AZ 85142 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

Jim Thompson wrote:

David Eather wrote:

50 years ago if you reminisced about a vibrator power supply everyone knew
exactly what you were talking about. In a few more years you won't be able
to mention it in polite company without first giving a detailed
description first - and even then some people will still think you are
being obscene . Ahh, the wonders of progress.

Indeed. Some here would be astonished that some vibrator packs didn't
need rectifiers, they had synchronous output reeds.


Did you know that there were plug in solid state replacements for 12V
vibrators, 50 years ago? A crude oscillator with a transformer and a
pair of Germanium TO3 transistors in a deep drawn aluminum can. They
were filled with sand to help remove the heat. They worked, but would
die from overheating.





--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

On Thu, 13 Feb 2014 06:48:45 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


Jim Thompson wrote:

David Eather wrote:

50 years ago if you reminisced about a vibrator power supply everyone knew
exactly what you were talking about. In a few more years you won't be able
to mention it in polite company without first giving a detailed
description first - and even then some people will still think you are
being obscene . Ahh, the wonders of progress.

Indeed. Some here would be astonished that some vibrator packs didn't
need rectifiers, they had synchronous output reeds.


Did you know that there were plug in solid state replacements for 12V
vibrators, 50 years ago? A crude oscillator with a transformer and a
pair of Germanium TO3 transistors in a deep drawn aluminum can. They
were filled with sand to help remove the heat. They worked, but would
die from overheating.

Yep. I remember them well.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson | mens |
| Analog Innovations | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| San Tan Valley, AZ 85142 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.