PAL fails to realize that injection locking an oscillator requires an
oscillator :-}

His post was an attempt to output a subharmonic without the
oscillator. There are better ways to handle such a scenario.

For example, see my boom-box machine (circa 1979)...


http://www.analog-innovations.com/SED/SubBassEnhancer_BoomBoxProcessor.pdf

Here is an injection-locked OSCILLATOR....


http://www.analog-innovations.com/SED/InjectionLockingAnOscillator.pdf

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson | mens |
| Analog Innovations | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| San Tan Valley, AZ 85142 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

On Sun, 02 Feb 2014 08:49:55 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:

PAL fails to realize that injection locking an oscillator requires an
oscillator :-}

His post was an attempt to output a subharmonic without the
oscillator. There are better ways to handle such a scenario.

For example, see my boom-box machine (circa 1979)...


http://www.analog-innovations.com/SED/SubBassEnhancer_BoomBoxProcessor.pdf

Here is an injection-locked OSCILLATOR....


http://www.analog-innovations.com/SED/InjectionLockingAnOscillator.pdf

...Jim Thompson

Should anyone be puzzled over my "oscillator", it's the behavioral
equivalent of a diff-pair, the explanation of which I posted yesterday
(2/1/2014)...

http://www.analog-innovations.com/DiffPairMath-JT.pdf

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson | mens |
| Analog Innovations | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| San Tan Valley, AZ 85142 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

On Sun, 02 Feb 2014 08:49:55 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:

PAL fails to realize that injection locking an oscillator requires an
oscillator :-}

You fail to realize that a parametric oscillator is an oscillator.




His post was an attempt to output a subharmonic without the
oscillator. There are better ways to handle such a scenario.

For example, see my boom-box machine (circa 1979)...


http://www.analog-innovations.com/SED/SubBassEnhancer_BoomBoxProcessor.pdf


BoomBox! Hilarious hairball. Why do something with a few parts, when you can use
hundreds?


Here is an injection-locked OSCILLATOR....


http://www.analog-innovations.com/SED/InjectionLockingAnOscillator.pdf

...Jim Thompson

Trivial and unoriginal. It's more interesting to use the parametric pump as the
gain element.


--

John Larkin Highland Technology Inc
www.highlandtechnology.com jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com

Precision electronic instrumentation

On Sun, 02 Feb 2014 08:07:25 -0800, John Larkin
wrote:

On Sun, 02 Feb 2014 08:49:55 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:

PAL fails to realize that injection locking an oscillator requires an
oscillator :-}

You fail to realize that a parametric oscillator is an oscillator.




His post was an attempt to output a subharmonic without the
oscillator. There are better ways to handle such a scenario.

For example, see my boom-box machine (circa 1979)...


http://www.analog-innovations.com/SED/SubBassEnhancer_BoomBoxProcessor.pdf


BoomBox! Hilarious hairball. Why do something with a few parts, when you can use
hundreds?


Here is an injection-locked OSCILLATOR....


http://www.analog-innovations.com/SED/InjectionLockingAnOscillator.pdf

...Jim Thompson

Trivial and unoriginal. It's more interesting to use the parametric pump as the
gain element.

Of course, PAL, it works so-o-o-o well :-}

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson | mens |
| Analog Innovations | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| San Tan Valley, AZ 85142 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

On Sun, 02 Feb 2014 09:08:17 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:

On Sun, 02 Feb 2014 08:07:25 -0800, John Larkin
wrote:

On Sun, 02 Feb 2014 08:49:55 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:

PAL fails to realize that injection locking an oscillator requires an
oscillator :-}

You fail to realize that a parametric oscillator is an oscillator.




His post was an attempt to output a subharmonic without the
oscillator. There are better ways to handle such a scenario.

For example, see my boom-box machine (circa 1979)...


http://www.analog-innovations.com/SED/SubBassEnhancer_BoomBoxProcessor.pdf


BoomBox! Hilarious hairball. Why do something with a few parts, when you can use
hundreds?


Here is an injection-locked OSCILLATOR....


http://www.analog-innovations.com/SED/InjectionLockingAnOscillator.pdf

...Jim Thompson

Trivial and unoriginal. It's more interesting to use the parametric pump as the
gain element.

Of course, PAL, it works so-o-o-o well :-}

...Jim Thompson

The point is that it does work. It makes an f/2 signal using only a diode as the
active element, which was (some time ago) in question here. With a proper
varicap diode and some optimization, it would be more efficient. But it works.
It was sort of an homage to A. F. Boff.

http://www.hpl.hp.com/hpjournal/pdfs...Fs/1960-01.pdf



--

John Larkin Highland Technology Inc
www.highlandtechnology.com jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com

Precision electronic instrumentation

On Sun, 02 Feb 2014 09:58:52 -0800, John Larkin
wrote:

On Sun, 02 Feb 2014 09:08:17 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:

On Sun, 02 Feb 2014 08:07:25 -0800, John Larkin
wrote:

On Sun, 02 Feb 2014 08:49:55 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:

PAL fails to realize that injection locking an oscillator requires an
oscillator :-}

You fail to realize that a parametric oscillator is an oscillator.




His post was an attempt to output a subharmonic without the
oscillator. There are better ways to handle such a scenario.

For example, see my boom-box machine (circa 1979)...


http://www.analog-innovations.com/SED/SubBassEnhancer_BoomBoxProcessor.pdf


BoomBox! Hilarious hairball. Why do something with a few parts, when you can use
hundreds?


Here is an injection-locked OSCILLATOR....


http://www.analog-innovations.com/SED/InjectionLockingAnOscillator.pdf

...Jim Thompson

Trivial and unoriginal. It's more interesting to use the parametric pump as the
gain element.

Of course, PAL, it works so-o-o-o well :-}

...Jim Thompson

The point is that it does work. It makes an f/2 signal using only a diode as the
active element, which was (some time ago) in question here. With a proper
varicap diode and some optimization, it would be more efficient. But it works.
It was sort of an homage to A. F. Boff.

http://www.hpl.hp.com/hpjournal/pdfs...Fs/1960-01.pdf

I used power varactors in the early '60's (tripling) to get to
144-148MHz (2-meter FM ham band) from 48-49.333MHz... to get 5 Watts
output. The transistors of that era weren't quite up to directly
making 144MHz.

Drilled a hole in the middle of the roof of my '61 Renault Dauphine
and mounted a waterproof BNC connector for a quarter-wave whip ;-)

But getting back to subharmonic inject of "oscillators"... I think
you're deluding yourself calling that parametric pumping.

See for example, with an ordinary diode and input DC-skewed (as in
your post, but in the proper direction ...

http://www.analog-innovations.com/SED/InjectionLockingAnOscillator_DiodeOnly.pdf

But we'd all be interested in seeing your ASC file when it includes "a
proper varicap diode and some optimization" :-}

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson | mens |
| Analog Innovations | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| San Tan Valley, AZ 85142 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

On Sun, 02 Feb 2014 09:07:14 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:

On Sun, 02 Feb 2014 08:49:55 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:

PAL fails to realize that injection locking an oscillator requires an
oscillator :-}

His post was an attempt to output a subharmonic without the
oscillator. There are better ways to handle such a scenario.

For example, see my boom-box machine (circa 1979)...


http://www.analog-innovations.com/SED/SubBassEnhancer_BoomBoxProcessor.pdf


Cool; a dozen quad LM324s, 48 crappy opamps. LM324's show visible sinewave
crossover distortion at 60 Hz.

One question? Who would put a circuit like that, grossly distorting, with
hundreds of parts, consuming about 5 watts, into a boom box?


--

John Larkin Highland Technology Inc
www.highlandtechnology.com jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com

Precision electronic instrumentation

On Sun, 02 Feb 2014 11:32:09 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:

On Sun, 02 Feb 2014 09:58:52 -0800, John Larkin
wrote:

On Sun, 02 Feb 2014 09:08:17 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:

On Sun, 02 Feb 2014 08:07:25 -0800, John Larkin
wrote:

On Sun, 02 Feb 2014 08:49:55 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:

PAL fails to realize that injection locking an oscillator requires an
oscillator :-}

You fail to realize that a parametric oscillator is an oscillator.




His post was an attempt to output a subharmonic without the
oscillator. There are better ways to handle such a scenario.

For example, see my boom-box machine (circa 1979)...


http://www.analog-innovations.com/SED/SubBassEnhancer_BoomBoxProcessor.pdf


BoomBox! Hilarious hairball. Why do something with a few parts, when you can use
hundreds?


Here is an injection-locked OSCILLATOR....


http://www.analog-innovations.com/SED/InjectionLockingAnOscillator.pdf

...Jim Thompson

Trivial and unoriginal. It's more interesting to use the parametric pump as the
gain element.

Of course, PAL, it works so-o-o-o well :-}

...Jim Thompson

The point is that it does work. It makes an f/2 signal using only a diode as the
active element, which was (some time ago) in question here. With a proper
varicap diode and some optimization, it would be more efficient. But it works.
It was sort of an homage to A. F. Boff.

http://www.hpl.hp.com/hpjournal/pdfs...Fs/1960-01.pdf

I used power varactors in the early '60's (tripling) to get to
144-148MHz (2-meter FM ham band) from 48-49.333MHz... to get 5 Watts
output. The transistors of that era weren't quite up to directly
making 144MHz.

Drilled a hole in the middle of the roof of my '61 Renault Dauphine
and mounted a waterproof BNC connector for a quarter-wave whip ;-)

But getting back to subharmonic inject of "oscillators"... I think
you're deluding yourself calling that parametric pumping.

OK, there is clearly an f/2 component in my output. There is none in the V1
source.

Where does the f/2 energy come from? If you can't figure that out, try asking
one of your "young bucks."



See for example, with an ordinary diode and input DC-skewed (as in
your post, but in the proper direction ...

Are you sure your oscillator is sub-locking to the sinewave source? It's a
little hard to tell in that narrow time slice, but it sure looks like they are
drifting in phase. So the "lock" may be an illusion of them being, by design,
close in frequency.


--

John Larkin Highland Technology Inc
www.highlandtechnology.com jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com

Precision electronic instrumentation

On Sun, 02 Feb 2014 10:37:13 -0800, John Larkin
wrote:

On Sun, 02 Feb 2014 09:07:14 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:

On Sun, 02 Feb 2014 08:49:55 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:

PAL fails to realize that injection locking an oscillator requires an
oscillator :-}

His post was an attempt to output a subharmonic without the
oscillator. There are better ways to handle such a scenario.

For example, see my boom-box machine (circa 1979)...


http://www.analog-innovations.com/SED/SubBassEnhancer_BoomBoxProcessor.pdf


Cool; a dozen quad LM324s, 48 crappy opamps. LM324's show visible sinewave
crossover distortion at 60 Hz.

One question? Who would put a circuit like that, grossly distorting, with
hundreds of parts, consuming about 5 watts, into a boom box?

Listen, PAL, it's too exotic for you to understand... REALLY :-}

How about getting back to the original subject?

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson | mens |
| Analog Innovations | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| San Tan Valley, AZ 85142 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

On Sun, 02 Feb 2014 12:04:49 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:

On Sun, 02 Feb 2014 10:37:13 -0800, John Larkin
wrote:

On Sun, 02 Feb 2014 09:07:14 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:

On Sun, 02 Feb 2014 08:49:55 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:

PAL fails to realize that injection locking an oscillator requires an
oscillator :-}

His post was an attempt to output a subharmonic without the
oscillator. There are better ways to handle such a scenario.

For example, see my boom-box machine (circa 1979)...


http://www.analog-innovations.com/SED/SubBassEnhancer_BoomBoxProcessor.pdf


Cool; a dozen quad LM324s, 48 crappy opamps. LM324's show visible sinewave
crossover distortion at 60 Hz.

One question? Who would put a circuit like that, grossly distorting, with
hundreds of parts, consuming about 5 watts, into a boom box?

Listen, PAL, it's too exotic for you to understand... REALLY :-}

How about getting back to the original subject?

...Jim Thompson

YOU posted that circuit. Now you don't want to talk about it.

Can't say I blame you. It's another parts-rich hairball.


--

John Larkin Highland Technology Inc
www.highlandtechnology.com jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com

Precision electronic instrumentation

On 2/2/2014 12:58 PM, John Larkin wrote:
On Sun, 02 Feb 2014 09:08:17 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:

On Sun, 02 Feb 2014 08:07:25 -0800, John Larkin
wrote:

On Sun, 02 Feb 2014 08:49:55 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:

PAL fails to realize that injection locking an oscillator requires an
oscillator :-}

You fail to realize that a parametric oscillator is an oscillator.




His post was an attempt to output a subharmonic without the
oscillator. There are better ways to handle such a scenario.

For example, see my boom-box machine (circa 1979)...


http://www.analog-innovations.com/SED/SubBassEnhancer_BoomBoxProcessor.pdf


BoomBox! Hilarious hairball. Why do something with a few parts, when you can use
hundreds?


Here is an injection-locked OSCILLATOR....


http://www.analog-innovations.com/SED/InjectionLockingAnOscillator.pdf

...Jim Thompson

Trivial and unoriginal. It's more interesting to use the parametric pump as the
gain element.

Of course, PAL, it works so-o-o-o well :-}

...Jim Thompson

The point is that it does work. It makes an f/2 signal using only a diode as the
active element, which was (some time ago) in question here. With a proper
varicap diode and some optimization, it would be more efficient. But it works.
It was sort of an homage to A. F. Boff.

http://www.hpl.hp.com/hpjournal/pdfs...Fs/1960-01.pdf



Parametric dividers are still for sale, I think. Somebody used to
advertise them as "frequency halvers".

It's a pretty well known effect--see e.g.
http://www.vk2zay.net/article/150

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics

160 North State Road #203
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

hobbs at electrooptical dot net
http://electrooptical.net

On Sun, 02 Feb 2014 11:03:44 -0800, John Larkin
wrote:

On Sun, 02 Feb 2014 11:32:09 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:

On Sun, 02 Feb 2014 09:58:52 -0800, John Larkin
wrote:

On Sun, 02 Feb 2014 09:08:17 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:

On Sun, 02 Feb 2014 08:07:25 -0800, John Larkin
wrote:

On Sun, 02 Feb 2014 08:49:55 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:

PAL fails to realize that injection locking an oscillator requires an
oscillator :-}

You fail to realize that a parametric oscillator is an oscillator.




His post was an attempt to output a subharmonic without the
oscillator. There are better ways to handle such a scenario.

For example, see my boom-box machine (circa 1979)...


http://www.analog-innovations.com/SED/SubBassEnhancer_BoomBoxProcessor.pdf


BoomBox! Hilarious hairball. Why do something with a few parts, when you can use
hundreds?


Here is an injection-locked OSCILLATOR....


http://www.analog-innovations.com/SED/InjectionLockingAnOscillator.pdf

...Jim Thompson

Trivial and unoriginal. It's more interesting to use the parametric pump as the
gain element.

Of course, PAL, it works so-o-o-o well :-}

...Jim Thompson

The point is that it does work. It makes an f/2 signal using only a diode as the
active element, which was (some time ago) in question here. With a proper
varicap diode and some optimization, it would be more efficient. But it works.
It was sort of an homage to A. F. Boff.

http://www.hpl.hp.com/hpjournal/pdfs...Fs/1960-01.pdf

I used power varactors in the early '60's (tripling) to get to
144-148MHz (2-meter FM ham band) from 48-49.333MHz... to get 5 Watts
output. The transistors of that era weren't quite up to directly
making 144MHz.

Drilled a hole in the middle of the roof of my '61 Renault Dauphine
and mounted a waterproof BNC connector for a quarter-wave whip ;-)

But getting back to subharmonic inject of "oscillators"... I think
you're deluding yourself calling that parametric pumping.

OK, there is clearly an f/2 component in my output. There is none in the V1
source.

Where does the f/2 energy come from? If you can't figure that out, try asking
one of your "young bucks."



See for example, with an ordinary diode and input DC-skewed (as in
your post, but in the proper direction ...

Are you sure your oscillator is sub-locking to the sinewave source? It's a
little hard to tell in that narrow time slice, but it sure looks like they are
drifting in phase. So the "lock" may be an illusion of them being, by design,
close in frequency.

:-} Such ignorance.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson | mens |
| Analog Innovations | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| San Tan Valley, AZ 85142 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

On Sun, 02 Feb 2014 14:14:19 -0500, Phil Hobbs
wrote:

On 2/2/2014 12:58 PM, John Larkin wrote:
On Sun, 02 Feb 2014 09:08:17 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:

On Sun, 02 Feb 2014 08:07:25 -0800, John Larkin
wrote:

On Sun, 02 Feb 2014 08:49:55 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:

PAL fails to realize that injection locking an oscillator requires an
oscillator :-}

You fail to realize that a parametric oscillator is an oscillator.




His post was an attempt to output a subharmonic without the
oscillator. There are better ways to handle such a scenario.

For example, see my boom-box machine (circa 1979)...


http://www.analog-innovations.com/SED/SubBassEnhancer_BoomBoxProcessor.pdf


BoomBox! Hilarious hairball. Why do something with a few parts, when you can use
hundreds?


Here is an injection-locked OSCILLATOR....


http://www.analog-innovations.com/SED/InjectionLockingAnOscillator.pdf

...Jim Thompson

Trivial and unoriginal. It's more interesting to use the parametric pump as the
gain element.

Of course, PAL, it works so-o-o-o well :-}

...Jim Thompson

The point is that it does work. It makes an f/2 signal using only a diode as the
active element, which was (some time ago) in question here. With a proper
varicap diode and some optimization, it would be more efficient. But it works.
It was sort of an homage to A. F. Boff.

http://www.hpl.hp.com/hpjournal/pdfs...Fs/1960-01.pdf



Parametric dividers are still for sale, I think. Somebody used to
advertise them as "frequency halvers".

It's a pretty well known effect--see e.g.
http://www.vk2zay.net/article/150

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

Awwwwh! Now you done gone and showed PAL how to "optimize" his
"hair-ball" :-}

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson | mens |
| Analog Innovations | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| San Tan Valley, AZ 85142 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

On 2/2/2014 2:23 PM, Jim Thompson wrote:
On Sun, 02 Feb 2014 14:14:19 -0500, Phil Hobbs
wrote:

On 2/2/2014 12:58 PM, John Larkin wrote:
On Sun, 02 Feb 2014 09:08:17 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:

On Sun, 02 Feb 2014 08:07:25 -0800, John Larkin
wrote:

On Sun, 02 Feb 2014 08:49:55 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:

PAL fails to realize that injection locking an oscillator requires an
oscillator :-}

You fail to realize that a parametric oscillator is an oscillator.




His post was an attempt to output a subharmonic without the
oscillator. There are better ways to handle such a scenario.

For example, see my boom-box machine (circa 1979)...


http://www.analog-innovations.com/SED/SubBassEnhancer_BoomBoxProcessor.pdf


BoomBox! Hilarious hairball. Why do something with a few parts, when you can use
hundreds?


Here is an injection-locked OSCILLATOR....


http://www.analog-innovations.com/SED/InjectionLockingAnOscillator.pdf

...Jim Thompson

Trivial and unoriginal. It's more interesting to use the parametric pump as the
gain element.

Of course, PAL, it works so-o-o-o well :-}

...Jim Thompson

The point is that it does work. It makes an f/2 signal using only a diode as the
active element, which was (some time ago) in question here. With a proper
varicap diode and some optimization, it would be more efficient. But it works.
It was sort of an homage to A. F. Boff.

http://www.hpl.hp.com/hpjournal/pdfs...Fs/1960-01.pdf



Parametric dividers are still for sale, I think. Somebody used to
advertise them as "frequency halvers".

It's a pretty well known effect--see e.g.
http://www.vk2zay.net/article/150

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

Awwwwh! Now you done gone and showed PAL how to "optimize" his
"hair-ball" :-}

...Jim Thompson


You're looking after your own ****ing contest, Jim. The rest of us have
more or less outgrown junior high.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics

160 North State Road #203
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

hobbs at electrooptical dot net
http://electrooptical.net

On Sun, 02 Feb 2014 12:21:25 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:

On Sun, 02 Feb 2014 11:03:44 -0800, John Larkin
wrote:

On Sun, 02 Feb 2014 11:32:09 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:

On Sun, 02 Feb 2014 09:58:52 -0800, John Larkin
wrote:

On Sun, 02 Feb 2014 09:08:17 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:

On Sun, 02 Feb 2014 08:07:25 -0800, John Larkin
wrote:

On Sun, 02 Feb 2014 08:49:55 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:

PAL fails to realize that injection locking an oscillator requires an
oscillator :-}

You fail to realize that a parametric oscillator is an oscillator.




His post was an attempt to output a subharmonic without the
oscillator. There are better ways to handle such a scenario.

For example, see my boom-box machine (circa 1979)...


http://www.analog-innovations.com/SED/SubBassEnhancer_BoomBoxProcessor.pdf


BoomBox! Hilarious hairball. Why do something with a few parts, when you can use
hundreds?


Here is an injection-locked OSCILLATOR....


http://www.analog-innovations.com/SED/InjectionLockingAnOscillator.pdf

...Jim Thompson

Trivial and unoriginal. It's more interesting to use the parametric pump as the
gain element.

Of course, PAL, it works so-o-o-o well :-}

...Jim Thompson

The point is that it does work. It makes an f/2 signal using only a diode as the
active element, which was (some time ago) in question here. With a proper
varicap diode and some optimization, it would be more efficient. But it works.
It was sort of an homage to A. F. Boff.

http://www.hpl.hp.com/hpjournal/pdfs...Fs/1960-01.pdf

I used power varactors in the early '60's (tripling) to get to
144-148MHz (2-meter FM ham band) from 48-49.333MHz... to get 5 Watts
output. The transistors of that era weren't quite up to directly
making 144MHz.

Drilled a hole in the middle of the roof of my '61 Renault Dauphine
and mounted a waterproof BNC connector for a quarter-wave whip ;-)

But getting back to subharmonic inject of "oscillators"... I think
you're deluding yourself calling that parametric pumping.

OK, there is clearly an f/2 component in my output. There is none in the V1
source.

Where does the f/2 energy come from? If you can't figure that out, try asking
one of your "young bucks."



See for example, with an ordinary diode and input DC-skewed (as in
your post, but in the proper direction ...

Are you sure your oscillator is sub-locking to the sinewave source? It's a
little hard to tell in that narrow time slice, but it sure looks like they are
drifting in phase. So the "lock" may be an illusion of them being, by design,
close in frequency.

:-} Such ignorance.

...Jim Thompson

Zero content, as usual.

Is it indeed locked? Or does it just look that way in a narrow time slice?


--

John Larkin Highland Technology Inc
www.highlandtechnology.com jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com

Precision electronic instrumentation

On Sun, 02 Feb 2014 14:14:19 -0500, Phil Hobbs
wrote:

On 2/2/2014 12:58 PM, John Larkin wrote:
On Sun, 02 Feb 2014 09:08:17 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:

On Sun, 02 Feb 2014 08:07:25 -0800, John Larkin
wrote:

On Sun, 02 Feb 2014 08:49:55 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:

PAL fails to realize that injection locking an oscillator requires an
oscillator :-}

You fail to realize that a parametric oscillator is an oscillator.




His post was an attempt to output a subharmonic without the
oscillator. There are better ways to handle such a scenario.

For example, see my boom-box machine (circa 1979)...


http://www.analog-innovations.com/SED/SubBassEnhancer_BoomBoxProcessor.pdf


BoomBox! Hilarious hairball. Why do something with a few parts, when you can use
hundreds?


Here is an injection-locked OSCILLATOR....


http://www.analog-innovations.com/SED/InjectionLockingAnOscillator.pdf

...Jim Thompson

Trivial and unoriginal. It's more interesting to use the parametric pump as the
gain element.

Of course, PAL, it works so-o-o-o well :-}

...Jim Thompson

The point is that it does work. It makes an f/2 signal using only a diode as the
active element, which was (some time ago) in question here. With a proper
varicap diode and some optimization, it would be more efficient. But it works.
It was sort of an homage to A. F. Boff.

http://www.hpl.hp.com/hpjournal/pdfs...Fs/1960-01.pdf



Parametric dividers are still for sale, I think. Somebody used to
advertise them as "frequency halvers".

Before flipflops were invented!


It's a pretty well known effect--see e.g.
http://www.vk2zay.net/article/150

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

Neat. It's fun to discover stuff, even though it has probably been discovered
before.


--

John Larkin Highland Technology Inc
www.highlandtechnology.com jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com

Precision electronic instrumentation

On Sun, 02 Feb 2014 14:14:19 -0500, Phil Hobbs
wrote:

On 2/2/2014 12:58 PM, John Larkin wrote:
On Sun, 02 Feb 2014 09:08:17 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:

On Sun, 02 Feb 2014 08:07:25 -0800, John Larkin
wrote:

On Sun, 02 Feb 2014 08:49:55 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:

PAL fails to realize that injection locking an oscillator requires an
oscillator :-}

You fail to realize that a parametric oscillator is an oscillator.




His post was an attempt to output a subharmonic without the
oscillator. There are better ways to handle such a scenario.

For example, see my boom-box machine (circa 1979)...


http://www.analog-innovations.com/SED/SubBassEnhancer_BoomBoxProcessor.pdf


BoomBox! Hilarious hairball. Why do something with a few parts, when you can use
hundreds?


Here is an injection-locked OSCILLATOR....


http://www.analog-innovations.com/SED/InjectionLockingAnOscillator.pdf

...Jim Thompson

Trivial and unoriginal. It's more interesting to use the parametric pump as the
gain element.

Of course, PAL, it works so-o-o-o well :-}

...Jim Thompson

The point is that it does work. It makes an f/2 signal using only a diode as the
active element, which was (some time ago) in question here. With a proper
varicap diode and some optimization, it would be more efficient. But it works.
It was sort of an homage to A. F. Boff.

http://www.hpl.hp.com/hpjournal/pdfs...Fs/1960-01.pdf



Parametric dividers are still for sale, I think. Somebody used to
advertise them as "frequency halvers".

It's a pretty well known effect--see e.g.
http://www.vk2zay.net/article/150

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

I was thinking about how to do a Spice sim that is an analog to the pendulum
pumped by the 60 Hz coil. The tricky part is coming up with a nonlinear resistor
(or whatever) that approximates the force that the coil applies to the pendulum
as a function of the pendulum's angular position. That curve will need to be
fairly spikey to get decent pumping action.

Some other day. I've got to fix our hairdresser's 12-volt track lighting system
(the fried parts of which are in the kitchen of the Chinese restaurant next
door) and I think something else is going on this afternoon maybe.


--

John Larkin Highland Technology Inc
www.highlandtechnology.com jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com

Precision electronic instrumentation

On 2/2/2014 2:41 PM, John Larkin wrote:
On Sun, 02 Feb 2014 14:14:19 -0500, Phil Hobbs
wrote:

On 2/2/2014 12:58 PM, John Larkin wrote:
On Sun, 02 Feb 2014 09:08:17 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:

On Sun, 02 Feb 2014 08:07:25 -0800, John Larkin
wrote:

On Sun, 02 Feb 2014 08:49:55 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:

PAL fails to realize that injection locking an oscillator requires an
oscillator :-}

You fail to realize that a parametric oscillator is an oscillator.




His post was an attempt to output a subharmonic without the
oscillator. There are better ways to handle such a scenario.

For example, see my boom-box machine (circa 1979)...


http://www.analog-innovations.com/SED/SubBassEnhancer_BoomBoxProcessor.pdf


BoomBox! Hilarious hairball. Why do something with a few parts, when you can use
hundreds?


Here is an injection-locked OSCILLATOR....


http://www.analog-innovations.com/SED/InjectionLockingAnOscillator.pdf

...Jim Thompson

Trivial and unoriginal. It's more interesting to use the parametric pump as the
gain element.

Of course, PAL, it works so-o-o-o well :-}

...Jim Thompson

The point is that it does work. It makes an f/2 signal using only a diode as the
active element, which was (some time ago) in question here. With a proper
varicap diode and some optimization, it would be more efficient. But it works.
It was sort of an homage to A. F. Boff.

http://www.hpl.hp.com/hpjournal/pdfs...Fs/1960-01.pdf



Parametric dividers are still for sale, I think. Somebody used to
advertise them as "frequency halvers".

It's a pretty well known effect--see e.g.
http://www.vk2zay.net/article/150

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

I was thinking about how to do a Spice sim that is an analog to the pendulum
pumped by the 60 Hz coil. The tricky part is coming up with a nonlinear resistor
(or whatever) that approximates the force that the coil applies to the pendulum
as a function of the pendulum's angular position. That curve will need to be
fairly spikey to get decent pumping action.

Some other day. I've got to fix our hairdresser's 12-volt track lighting system
(the fried parts of which are in the kitchen of the Chinese restaurant next
door) and I think something else is going on this afternoon maybe.


Dunno. No TV here.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics

160 North State Road #203
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

hobbs at electrooptical dot net
http://electrooptical.net

On Sun, 02 Feb 2014 14:14:27 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:

On Sun, 02 Feb 2014 12:53:25 -0800, John Larkin
wrote:

[snip PAL trash]

Post a proper LT Spice schematic and I'll run it.

So you don't know how to run a .CIR file ?:-}


In the meantime, is it actually locked?

Yep.

...Jim Thompson

In PSpice I skewed the starting of the "pump" to be purposefully off
sync, then you can watch it walk in. The LM339 version is much easier
to see and understand, because the alternate pulses change amplitude
so rapidly.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson | mens |
| Analog Innovations | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| San Tan Valley, AZ 85142 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

On Sun, 02 Feb 2014 14:26:50 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:

On Sun, 02 Feb 2014 14:14:27 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:

On Sun, 02 Feb 2014 12:53:25 -0800, John Larkin
wrote:

[snip PAL trash]

Post a proper LT Spice schematic and I'll run it.

So you don't know how to run a .CIR file ?:-}


In the meantime, is it actually locked?

Yep.

...Jim Thompson

In PSpice I skewed the starting of the "pump" to be purposefully off
sync, then you can watch it walk in. The LM339 version is much easier
to see and understand, because the alternate pulses change amplitude
so rapidly.

...Jim Thompson

Works even better (faster "lock") if you toss the diode, reverse input
to LM339 and connect resistor from its output to the top of tank.
(Makes you wonder what it'd do if you switched a cap in and out.)

My boss, when I first went to Motorola in 1962, was Jan Narud
(co-father, with Walt Seelbach, of ECL). His PhD thesis was on
injection-locked loops... about 1/2" worth ;-)

I'll try and find it.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson | mens |
| Analog Innovations | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| San Tan Valley, AZ 85142 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

On Sun, 02 Feb 2014 08:49:55 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:

PAL fails to realize that injection locking an oscillator requires an
oscillator :-}

His post was an attempt to output a subharmonic without the
oscillator. There are better ways to handle such a scenario.

For example, see my boom-box machine (circa 1979)...


http://www.analog-innovations.com/SED/SubBassEnhancer_BoomBoxProcessor.pdf

Here is an injection-locked OSCILLATOR....


http://www.analog-innovations.com/SED/InjectionLockingAnOscillator.pdf

...Jim Thompson

Best of all, pull-down only, narrow pulse...

http://www.analog-innovations.com/SED/InjectionLocking_PD.png

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson | mens |
| Analog Innovations | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| San Tan Valley, AZ 85142 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

On Sun, 02 Feb 2014 16:20:52 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:

On Sun, 02 Feb 2014 08:49:55 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:

PAL fails to realize that injection locking an oscillator requires an
oscillator :-}

His post was an attempt to output a subharmonic without the
oscillator. There are better ways to handle such a scenario.

For example, see my boom-box machine (circa 1979)...


http://www.analog-innovations.com/SED/SubBassEnhancer_BoomBoxProcessor.pdf

Here is an injection-locked OSCILLATOR....


http://www.analog-innovations.com/SED/InjectionLockingAnOscillator.pdf

...Jim Thompson

Best of all, pull-down only, narrow pulse...

http://www.analog-innovations.com/SED/InjectionLocking_PD.png

...Jim Thompson

As usual, you post an image of a tiny time slice of a simulation.

Post an LT Spice .ASC schematic, something most people here can play with.




--

John Larkin Highland Technology Inc
www.highlandtechnology.com jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com

Precision electronic instrumentation

On Sun, 02 Feb 2014 15:29:04 -0800, John Larkin
wrote:

On Sun, 02 Feb 2014 16:20:52 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:

On Sun, 02 Feb 2014 08:49:55 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:

PAL fails to realize that injection locking an oscillator requires an
oscillator :-}

His post was an attempt to output a subharmonic without the
oscillator. There are better ways to handle such a scenario.

For example, see my boom-box machine (circa 1979)...


http://www.analog-innovations.com/SED/SubBassEnhancer_BoomBoxProcessor.pdf

Here is an injection-locked OSCILLATOR....


http://www.analog-innovations.com/SED/InjectionLockingAnOscillator.pdf

...Jim Thompson

Best of all, pull-down only, narrow pulse...

http://www.analog-innovations.com/SED/InjectionLocking_PD.png

...Jim Thompson

As usual, you post an image of a tiny time slice of a simulation.

Post an LT Spice .ASC schematic, something most people here can play with.

My apologies. I guess you are incapable of running a simple .CIR
file, something any freshman EE student can do :-}

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson | mens |
| Analog Innovations | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| San Tan Valley, AZ 85142 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

On Sun, 02 Feb 2014 08:49:55 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:

PAL fails to realize that injection locking an oscillator requires an
oscillator :-}

His post was an attempt to output a subharmonic without the
oscillator. There are better ways to handle such a scenario.

For example, see my boom-box machine (circa 1979)...


http://www.analog-innovations.com/SED/SubBassEnhancer_BoomBoxProcessor.pdf

Here is an injection-locked OSCILLATOR....


http://www.analog-innovations.com/SED/InjectionLockingAnOscillator.pdf

...Jim Thompson

Here's an even better performer...

http://www.analog-innovations.com/SE...or_SwR2GND.pdf

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson | mens |
| Analog Innovations | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| San Tan Valley, AZ 85142 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.