74HC4046 Model Development
 

I have been notified by Helmut Sennewald that the LTspice encryption
process hides the node sequence. So please revisit...

http://www.analog-innovations.com/SED/HC4046_SUB.zip

for a corrected version.

This is just the VCO portion for now, and just the variable part;
suitable only for LTspice.

Please try it out and let me know your comments, etc.

Since I'm new to working with LTspice, please send me any error
messages, so I can refine my skills :-}

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

74HC4046 Model Development
 

On 10/20/2012 8:02 PM, Jim Thompson wrote:
I have been notified by Helmut Sennewald that the LTspice encryption
process hides the node sequence. So please revisit...

http://www.analog-innovations.com/SED/HC4046_SUB.zip

for a corrected version.

This is just the VCO portion for now, and just the variable part;
suitable only for LTspice.

Please try it out and let me know your comments, etc.

Since I'm new to working with LTspice, please send me any error
messages, so I can refine my skills :-}

...Jim Thompson


Thanks for taking on my suggestion from a while back, Jim. Looking
forward to trying it out!

74HC4046 Model Development
 

On Sat, 20 Oct 2012 20:06:46 -0400, bitrex
wrote:

On 10/20/2012 8:02 PM, Jim Thompson wrote:
I have been notified by Helmut Sennewald that the LTspice encryption
process hides the node sequence. So please revisit...

http://www.analog-innovations.com/SED/HC4046_SUB.zip

for a corrected version.

This is just the VCO portion for now, and just the variable part;
suitable only for LTspice.

Please try it out and let me know your comments, etc.

Since I'm new to working with LTspice, please send me any error
messages, so I can refine my skills :-}

...Jim Thompson


Thanks for taking on my suggestion from a while back, Jim. Looking
forward to trying it out!

My aim is to make the model as close to the silicon as possible.

For amusement, since it had been mentioned, I'm also doing the uA741
at the same time. It may be done tomorrow or Monday, since it's
rather easy.

The 4046 will take awhile to get all the pieces working together.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

74HC4046 Model Development
 

Am 21.10.2012 02:02, schrieb Jim Thompson:
I have been notified by Helmut Sennewald that the LTspice encryption
process hides the node sequence. So please revisit...
...Jim Thompson



why is it encrypted??

74HC4046 Model Development
 

On Sun, 21 Oct 2012 19:36:17 +0200, Günter Haarmann
wrote:

Am 21.10.2012 02:02, schrieb Jim Thompson:
I have been notified by Helmut Sennewald that the LTspice encryption
process hides the node sequence. So please revisit...
...Jim Thompson



why is it encrypted??

I'm not in the teaching business, I'm in the money-making business, so
I don't want to divulge my techniques.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

74HC4046 Model Development
 

On Sat, 20 Oct 2012 17:02:13 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:

I have been notified by Helmut Sennewald that the LTspice encryption
process hides the node sequence. So please revisit...

http://www.analog-innovations.com/SED/HC4046_SUB.zip

for a corrected version.

This is just the VCO portion for now, and just the variable part;
suitable only for LTspice.

Please try it out and let me know your comments, etc.

Since I'm new to working with LTspice, please send me any error
messages, so I can refine my skills :-}


What upsets me most is that it's a copy of my 1965 design, the MC4024
(bipolar devices, oscillator core is PECL, TTL output). And they
bungled the copy :-( Unlike my original version, the CMOS version
dumps the capacitor is an uncontrolled manner, and the thresholds and
current mirrors are abominations of "engineering".

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

74HC4046 Model Development
 

On Sun, 21 Oct 2012 17:47:38 -0500, legg wrote:

On Sun, 21 Oct 2012 14:27:24 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:

On Sat, 20 Oct 2012 17:02:13 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:

I have been notified by Helmut Sennewald that the LTspice encryption
process hides the node sequence. So please revisit...

http://www.analog-innovations.com/SED/HC4046_SUB.zip

for a corrected version.

This is just the VCO portion for now, and just the variable part;
suitable only for LTspice.

Please try it out and let me know your comments, etc.

Since I'm new to working with LTspice, please send me any error
messages, so I can refine my skills :-}


What upsets me most is that it's a copy of my 1965 design, the MC4024
(bipolar devices, oscillator core is PECL, TTL output). And they
bungled the copy :-( Unlike my original version, the CMOS version
dumps the capacitor is an uncontrolled manner, and the thresholds and
current mirrors are abominations of "engineering".

...Jim Thompson

Are bungled abominations more difficult to model?

RL

Yes ;-)

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

74HC4046 Model Development
 

On Sun, 21 Oct 2012 14:27:24 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:

On Sat, 20 Oct 2012 17:02:13 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:

I have been notified by Helmut Sennewald that the LTspice encryption
process hides the node sequence. So please revisit...

http://www.analog-innovations.com/SED/HC4046_SUB.zip

for a corrected version.

This is just the VCO portion for now, and just the variable part;
suitable only for LTspice.

Please try it out and let me know your comments, etc.

Since I'm new to working with LTspice, please send me any error
messages, so I can refine my skills :-}


What upsets me most is that it's a copy of my 1965 design, the MC4024
(bipolar devices, oscillator core is PECL, TTL output). And they
bungled the copy :-( Unlike my original version, the CMOS version
dumps the capacitor is an uncontrolled manner, and the thresholds and
current mirrors are abominations of "engineering".

...Jim Thompson

Are bungled abominations more difficult to model?

RL

74HC4046 Model Development
 

On Sat, 20 Oct 2012 17:02:13 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:

I have been notified by Helmut Sennewald that the LTspice encryption
process hides the node sequence. So please revisit...

http://www.analog-innovations.com/SED/HC4046_SUB.zip

for a corrected version.

This is just the VCO portion for now, and just the variable part;
suitable only for LTspice.

Please try it out and let me know your comments, etc.

Since I'm new to working with LTspice, please send me any error
messages, so I can refine my skills :-}


I really do hope someone will try out the model and let me know how it
simulates... rather than blathering that it's encrypted.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

74HC4046 Model Development
 

Am 22.10.2012 01:28, schrieb Jim Thompson:


I really do hope someone will try out the model and let me know how it
simulates... rather than blathering that it's encrypted.

...Jim Thompson


No. if you don´t want to give you won´t receive.

You want to earn money with it, then spend some money for testers.

74HC4046 Model Development
 

On 10/22/2012 07:26 AM, Günter Haarmann wrote:
Am 22.10.2012 01:28, schrieb Jim Thompson:


I really do hope someone will try out the model and let me know how it
simulates... rather than blathering that it's encrypted.

...Jim Thompson


No. if you don´t want to give you won´t receive.

You want to earn money with it, then spend some money for testers.

I dunno. Making the model will probably help some folks, if they don't
expect its horrible nonlinearity to be horrible in quite the same way as
the production parts. (For a variety of reasons, I'm also in favour of
people being able to make a living.)

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics

160 North State Road #203
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

hobbs at electrooptical dot net
http://electrooptical.net

74HC4046 Model Development
 

On Mon, 22 Oct 2012 13:26:13 +0200, Günter Haarmann
wrote:

Am 22.10.2012 01:28, schrieb Jim Thompson:


I really do hope someone will try out the model and let me know how it
simulates... rather than blathering that it's encrypted.

...Jim Thompson


No. if you don´t want to give you won´t receive.

You want to earn money with it, then spend some money for testers.

I GAVE you a model. I didn't charge for it. I encrypted it to
conceal my "tricks of the trade".

I know my model works under LTspice...

http://www.analog-innovations.com/SE...SUB_SIM_LT.pdf

my submission was simply to make sure it also works after encryption.

Quite frankly I don't give a rat's ass whether you use the model or
not. I find the 74HC4046 a piece-a-crap, a rather poor CMOS copy of
my original design, the quite linear MC4024 of nearly 50 years ago.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

74HC4046 Model Development
 

On 22/10/2012 16:42, Jim Thompson wrote:

Quite frankly I don't give a rat's ass whether you use the model or
not. I find the 74HC4046 a piece-a-crap, a rather poor CMOS copy of
my original design, the quite linear MC4024 of nearly 50 years ago.

...Jim Thompson


I have found that the variation of parameters the 74HC4046 from one
manufacturer to another is such that I cannot agree with such a sweeping
statement. I found the Philips/NXP variant a very well behaved device,
whereas others had/have poor VCO control linearity etc.

--
Mike Perkins
Video Solutions Ltd
www.videosolutions.ltd.uk

74HC4046 Model Development
 

On Mon, 22 Oct 2012 20:08:24 +0100, Mike Perkins
wrote:

On 22/10/2012 16:42, Jim Thompson wrote:

Quite frankly I don't give a rat's ass whether you use the model or
not. I find the 74HC4046 a piece-a-crap, a rather poor CMOS copy of
my original design, the quite linear MC4024 of nearly 50 years ago.

...Jim Thompson


I have found that the variation of parameters the 74HC4046 from one
manufacturer to another is such that I cannot agree with such a sweeping
statement. I found the Philips/NXP variant a very well behaved device,
whereas others had/have poor VCO control linearity etc.

I'm just going from reports here, primarily Phil Hobbs' bad
experiences. ALL of the data sheets look wonderful ;-)

I can certainly think of ways to improve it, particularly the current
mirrors, though a complete architecture change could easily eliminate
lots of the non-linearity issues.

Whoever rolled the CMOS copy totally missed an important point, don't
dump the capacitor into a substrate diode.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

74HC4046 Model Development
 

On 10/22/2012 9:04 AM, Phil Hobbs wrote:
On 10/22/2012 07:26 AM, Günter Haarmann wrote:
Am 22.10.2012 01:28, schrieb Jim Thompson:


I really do hope someone will try out the model and let me know how it
simulates... rather than blathering that it's encrypted.

...Jim Thompson


No. if you don´t want to give you won´t receive.

You want to earn money with it, then spend some money for testers.

I dunno. Making the model will probably help some folks, if they don't
expect its horrible nonlinearity to be horrible in quite the same way as
the production parts. (For a variety of reasons, I'm also in favor of
people being able to make a living.)

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

Someone needs to make a living... and pay the taxes for the 47% that
don't! Or someone needs to work to pay the taxes required to fill the
welfare kitty with that 1.032 trillion dollars every year.
The government says we have 46 million people in poverty in 2012.
If you divide 1.032 trillion by 46 million that is $22,434 per person.
Minimum wage is about $15,000. Hmm...
Mikek

74HC4046 Model Development
 

On 10/22/2012 03:08 PM, Mike Perkins wrote:
On 22/10/2012 16:42, Jim Thompson wrote:

Quite frankly I don't give a rat's ass whether you use the model or
not. I find the 74HC4046 a piece-a-crap, a rather poor CMOS copy of
my original design, the quite linear MC4024 of nearly 50 years ago.

...Jim Thompson


I have found that the variation of parameters the 74HC4046 from one
manufacturer to another is such that I cannot agree with such a sweeping
statement. I found the Philips/NXP variant a very well behaved device,
whereas others had/have poor VCO control linearity etc.

If you read the datasheet carefully, that good performance only exists
over a certain range of parameters, and is only typical, not guaranteed.
See the list of datasheet references I posted in the other HC4046
thread a few days ago.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics

160 North State Road #203
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

hobbs at electrooptical dot net
http://electrooptical.net

74HC4046 Model Development
 

On 22/10/2012 21:38, Phil Hobbs wrote:
On 10/22/2012 03:08 PM, Mike Perkins wrote:
On 22/10/2012 16:42, Jim Thompson wrote:

Quite frankly I don't give a rat's ass whether you use the model or
not. I find the 74HC4046 a piece-a-crap, a rather poor CMOS copy of
my original design, the quite linear MC4024 of nearly 50 years ago.

...Jim Thompson


I have found that the variation of parameters the 74HC4046 from one
manufacturer to another is such that I cannot agree with such a sweeping
statement. I found the Philips/NXP variant a very well behaved device,
whereas others had/have poor VCO control linearity etc.

If you read the datasheet carefully, that good performance only exists
over a certain range of parameters, and is only typical, not guaranteed.
See the list of datasheet references I posted in the other HC4046
thread a few days ago.


Whilst I agree that each manufacturer gives a range for each parameter,
my experience is that each manufacturer produced devices which were
amazingly consistent, but wildly changing from one manufacturer to
another. I recall that each manufacturer specified their 74HC4046 very
differently to show theirs in the best light. One problem I had years
ago was that one version produced over 25MHz irrespective of R and C
with a control voltage at +5V, causing my counters to fail and the whole
PLL to fall over!

--
Mike Perkins
Video Solutions Ltd
www.videosolutions.ltd.uk

74HC4046 Model Development
 

On 2012-10-22, amdx wrote:

Someone needs to make a living... and pay the taxes for the 47% that
don't! Or someone needs to work to pay the taxes required to fill the
welfare kitty with that 1.032 trillion dollars every year.
The government says we have 46 million people in poverty in 2012.
If you divide 1.032 trillion by 46 million that is $22,434 per person.
Minimum wage is about $15,000. Hmm...

perhaps minimum wage isn't enough to live on?

--
š‚šƒ 100% natural

--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ---

74HC4046 Model Development
 

amdx wrote:

On 10/22/2012 9:04 AM, Phil Hobbs wrote:
On 10/22/2012 07:26 AM, Günter Haarmann wrote:
Am 22.10.2012 01:28, schrieb Jim Thompson:


I really do hope someone will try out the model and let me know how it
simulates... rather than blathering that it's encrypted.

...Jim Thompson


No. if you don´t want to give you won´t receive.

You want to earn money with it, then spend some money for testers.

I dunno. Making the model will probably help some folks, if they don't
expect its horrible nonlinearity to be horrible in quite the same way as
the production parts. (For a variety of reasons, I'm also in favor of
people being able to make a living.)

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

Someone needs to make a living... and pay the taxes for the 47% that
don't! Or someone needs to work to pay the taxes required to fill the
welfare kitty with that 1.032 trillion dollars every year.
The government says we have 46 million people in poverty in 2012.
If you divide 1.032 trillion by 46 million that is $22,434 per person.
Minimum wage is about $15,000. Hmm...

Which means a lot of people are being employed AND make good money to
help the unemployed :-)

--
Failure does not prove something is impossible, failure simply
indicates you are not using the right tools...
nico@nctdevpuntnl (punt=.)
--------------------------------------------------------------