"Jim Thompson" wrote in
message ...
On Tue, 14 Feb 2012 18:24:27 -0600, John Fields
wrote:

On Tue, 14 Feb 2012 14:17:54 -0000, "Ian Field"
wrote:


"John Fields" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 14 Feb 2012 13:14:29 -0000, "Ian Field"
wrote:


I didn't reject the few (unsolicited) solutions from the minority of
smart-asses pretending to know more than they did - I just ignored
them.

---
Well, since ignorance seems to be your strong suit, that was probably
a good move on your part.

Well I certainly saved myself some aggro by ignoring the unsuitable
topology
suggested by your chum.

---
"Aggro"?

Oh, my, how cute!

If you ignored it, then there's no way you could have determined
whether it was suitable or not.
---

Can't help wondering whether he'd have got it right if he had known how
to
do the correct way.

---
Your pretending to knowledge of the _correct_ way insinuates that
you're privy to information which you obviously don't possess, since
you admit to wondering.

That makes you a phony.

Jim's made a good life for himself and his family, has certainly
contributed more than it seems _you_ ever will toward making this
world a better place in which to live, and yet all you can do is hurl
insolence from the peanut gallery.

Just a little envious, are we?

Perhaps Ian, upon completion of his engineering degree, will grace us
with an elegant solution to the hub dynamo problem ?:-)

My only regret is that I wasted time trying to help Ian. It'll not
happen again.

...Jim Thompson


Thought you were running the math, not your mouth!

On Wed, 15 Feb 2012 21:12:02 -0000, "Ian Field"
wrote:


"Jim Thompson" wrote in
message ...
On Tue, 14 Feb 2012 18:24:27 -0600, John Fields
wrote:

On Tue, 14 Feb 2012 14:17:54 -0000, "Ian Field"
wrote:


"John Fields" wrote in message
m...
On Tue, 14 Feb 2012 13:14:29 -0000, "Ian Field"
wrote:


I didn't reject the few (unsolicited) solutions from the minority of
smart-asses pretending to know more than they did - I just ignored
them.

---
Well, since ignorance seems to be your strong suit, that was probably
a good move on your part.

Well I certainly saved myself some aggro by ignoring the unsuitable
topology
suggested by your chum.

---
"Aggro"?

Oh, my, how cute!

If you ignored it, then there's no way you could have determined
whether it was suitable or not.
---

Can't help wondering whether he'd have got it right if he had known how
to
do the correct way.

---
Your pretending to knowledge of the _correct_ way insinuates that
you're privy to information which you obviously don't possess, since
you admit to wondering.

That makes you a phony.

Jim's made a good life for himself and his family, has certainly
contributed more than it seems _you_ ever will toward making this
world a better place in which to live, and yet all you can do is hurl
insolence from the peanut gallery.

Just a little envious, are we?

Perhaps Ian, upon completion of his engineering degree, will grace us
with an elegant solution to the hub dynamo problem ?:-)

---
I think neither is probable.
---

My only regret is that I wasted time trying to help Ian. It'll not
happen again.

...Jim Thompson


Thought you were running the math, not your mouth!

---
You seem capable of understanding only the latter, since you were
flummoxed by not being able to get the former.

--
JF

On Wed, 15 Feb 2012 21:12:02 -0000, "Ian Field"
wrote:


"Jim Thompson" wrote in
message ...
On Tue, 14 Feb 2012 18:24:27 -0600, John Fields
wrote:

On Tue, 14 Feb 2012 14:17:54 -0000, "Ian Field"
wrote:


"John Fields" wrote in message
m...
On Tue, 14 Feb 2012 13:14:29 -0000, "Ian Field"
wrote:


I didn't reject the few (unsolicited) solutions from the minority of
smart-asses pretending to know more than they did - I just ignored
them.

---
Well, since ignorance seems to be your strong suit, that was probably
a good move on your part.

Well I certainly saved myself some aggro by ignoring the unsuitable
topology
suggested by your chum.

---
"Aggro"?

Oh, my, how cute!

If you ignored it, then there's no way you could have determined
whether it was suitable or not.
---

Can't help wondering whether he'd have got it right if he had known how
to
do the correct way.

---
Your pretending to knowledge of the _correct_ way insinuates that
you're privy to information which you obviously don't possess, since
you admit to wondering.

That makes you a phony.

Jim's made a good life for himself and his family, has certainly
contributed more than it seems _you_ ever will toward making this
world a better place in which to live, and yet all you can do is hurl
insolence from the peanut gallery.

Just a little envious, are we?

Perhaps Ian, upon completion of his engineering degree, will grace us
with an elegant solution to the hub dynamo problem ?:-)

My only regret is that I wasted time trying to help Ian. It'll not
happen again.

...Jim Thompson


Thought you were running the math, not your mouth!


Gosh, just how much help was he?


--

John Larkin, President Highland Technology Inc
www.highlandtechnology.com jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com

Precision electronic instrumentation
Picosecond-resolution Digital Delay and Pulse generators
Custom timing and laser controllers
Photonics and fiberoptic TTL data links
VME analog, thermocouple, LVDT, synchro, tachometer
Multichannel arbitrary waveform generators

"John Larkin" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 15 Feb 2012 21:12:02 -0000, "Ian Field"
wrote:


"Jim Thompson" wrote
in
message ...
On Tue, 14 Feb 2012 18:24:27 -0600, John Fields
wrote:

On Tue, 14 Feb 2012 14:17:54 -0000, "Ian Field"
wrote:


"John Fields" wrote in message
om...
On Tue, 14 Feb 2012 13:14:29 -0000, "Ian Field"
wrote:


I didn't reject the few (unsolicited) solutions from the minority of
smart-asses pretending to know more than they did - I just ignored
them.

---
Well, since ignorance seems to be your strong suit, that was probably
a good move on your part.

Well I certainly saved myself some aggro by ignoring the unsuitable
topology
suggested by your chum.

---
"Aggro"?

Oh, my, how cute!

If you ignored it, then there's no way you could have determined
whether it was suitable or not.
---

Can't help wondering whether he'd have got it right if he had known how
to
do the correct way.

---
Your pretending to knowledge of the _correct_ way insinuates that
you're privy to information which you obviously don't possess, since
you admit to wondering.

That makes you a phony.

Jim's made a good life for himself and his family, has certainly
contributed more than it seems _you_ ever will toward making this
world a better place in which to live, and yet all you can do is hurl
insolence from the peanut gallery.

Just a little envious, are we?

Perhaps Ian, upon completion of his engineering degree, will grace us
with an elegant solution to the hub dynamo problem ?:-)

My only regret is that I wasted time trying to help Ian. It'll not
happen again.

...Jim Thompson


Thought you were running the math, not your mouth!


Gosh, just how much help was he?


Dunno' - these days I just stand back and watch the amusing antics.

On Sat, 11 Feb 2012 11:22:38 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:

In the past I have designed boost converters in burst mode, with peak
current control, but never with a PWM-controlled loop.

Outputs: +5 @ 25mA, -5V @ 20mA

Can someone point me to a tutorial?

Thanks!

[Don't point me to an off-the-shelf part. This has to go into a
_custom_ chip... just a little thing... 1mm x 25mm :-]

...Jim Thompson

OK it is not in my proper range of expertise, but there has to be a reason
that the device is not 2.5 mm by 10 mm (or even more square). Can you
enlighten us?

Somewhere I believe LCD was mentioned. Typically TFTs have a little silicon
chip cemented to the glass, providing interface (parallel, serial,
whatever), control (for at least a buffer, if not some rudimentary fill
routines), memory, and most importantly, the massive fanout (hundreds of
rows and columns) required to drive the array itself (which is mainly crummy
amorphous transistors driving pads which finally drive the liquid crystal).
Last one I busted open had a shiny strip maybe 2 x 15 mm, a hi-def panel
would have a lot more. Probably progress has been made since then and only
a 1mm strip is required.

Putting inductors anywhere near one of those will be an interesting
challenge, because the few components that come with are soldered to the
flex cable. This includes bypass caps, which you may know from experience
do not handle strain very well...

Tim

--
Deep Friar: a very philosophical monk.
Website: http://webpages.charter.net/dawill/tmoranwms

"josephkk" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 11 Feb 2012 11:22:38 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:

In the past I have designed boost converters in burst mode, with peak
current control, but never with a PWM-controlled loop.

Outputs: +5 @ 25mA, -5V @ 20mA

Can someone point me to a tutorial?

Thanks!

[Don't point me to an off-the-shelf part. This has to go into a
_custom_ chip... just a little thing... 1mm x 25mm :-]

...Jim Thompson

OK it is not in my proper range of expertise, but there has to be a reason
that the device is not 2.5 mm by 10 mm (or even more square). Can you
enlighten us?

Tim Williams wrote:

Somewhere I believe LCD was mentioned. Typically TFTs have a little silicon
chip cemented to the glass, providing interface (parallel, serial,
whatever), control (for at least a buffer, if not some rudimentary fill
routines), memory, and most importantly, the massive fanout (hundreds of
rows and columns) required to drive the array itself (which is mainly crummy
amorphous transistors driving pads which finally drive the liquid crystal).
Last one I busted open had a shiny strip maybe 2 x 15 mm, a hi-def panel
would have a lot more. Probably progress has been made since then and only
a 1mm strip is required.

Putting inductors anywhere near one of those will be an interesting
challenge, because the few components that come with are soldered to the
flex cable. This includes bypass caps, which you may know from experience
do not handle strain very well...

Tim

--
Deep Friar: a very philosophical monk.
Website: http://webpages.charter.net/dawill/tmoranwms

"josephkk" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 11 Feb 2012 11:22:38 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:

In the past I have designed boost converters in burst mode, with peak
current control, but never with a PWM-controlled loop.

Outputs: +5 @ 25mA, -5V @ 20mA

Can someone point me to a tutorial?

Thanks!

[Don't point me to an off-the-shelf part. This has to go into a
_custom_ chip... just a little thing... 1mm x 25mm :-]

...Jim Thompson

OK it is not in my proper range of expertise, but there has to be a reason
that the device is not 2.5 mm by 10 mm (or even more square). Can you
enlighten us?


I suspect it's a 1 mm sliver of a larger IC. Dicing yield would be a
problem with something 40 thou wide and an inch long, not to mention the
tendency of the chips to fall over.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs
--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics

160 North State Road #203
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510
845-480-2058

hobbs at electrooptical dot net
http://electrooptical.net

On Fri, 17 Feb 2012 10:20:10 -0500, Phil Hobbs
wrote:

Tim Williams wrote:

Somewhere I believe LCD was mentioned. Typically TFTs have a little silicon
chip cemented to the glass, providing interface (parallel, serial,
whatever), control (for at least a buffer, if not some rudimentary fill
routines), memory, and most importantly, the massive fanout (hundreds of
rows and columns) required to drive the array itself (which is mainly crummy
amorphous transistors driving pads which finally drive the liquid crystal).
Last one I busted open had a shiny strip maybe 2 x 15 mm, a hi-def panel
would have a lot more. Probably progress has been made since then and only
a 1mm strip is required.

Putting inductors anywhere near one of those will be an interesting
challenge, because the few components that come with are soldered to the
flex cable. This includes bypass caps, which you may know from experience
do not handle strain very well...

Tim

--
Deep Friar: a very philosophical monk.
Website: http://webpages.charter.net/dawill/tmoranwms

"josephkk" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 11 Feb 2012 11:22:38 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:

In the past I have designed boost converters in burst mode, with peak
current control, but never with a PWM-controlled loop.

Outputs: +5 @ 25mA, -5V @ 20mA

Can someone point me to a tutorial?

Thanks!

[Don't point me to an off-the-shelf part. This has to go into a
_custom_ chip... just a little thing... 1mm x 25mm :-]

...Jim Thompson

OK it is not in my proper range of expertise, but there has to be a reason
that the device is not 2.5 mm by 10 mm (or even more square). Can you
enlighten us?


I suspect it's a 1 mm sliver of a larger IC. Dicing yield would be a
problem with something 40 thou wide and an inch long, not to mention the
tendency of the chips to fall over.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

Nope. The real deal is 1mm x 25mm, with 480 "bumps". And this client
just sold their BILLIONETH chip, so they're not amateurs.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

On Fri, 17 Feb 2012 10:20:10 -0500, the renowned Phil Hobbs
wrote:




I suspect it's a 1 mm sliver of a larger IC. Dicing yield would be a
problem with something 40 thou wide and an inch long, not to mention the
tendency of the chips to fall over.

Here's a smaller example of this genre of chip:
http://www.tstonramp.com/~pddwebacc/...805%20-1_4.pdf

11mm x 1.21mm.

They're used in zillions of LCD (and I guess OLED) panels in all kinds
of consumer goods (cell phones, GPS units, printer and camera displays
etc. etc.


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

On Fri, 17 Feb 2012 18:58:51 -0500, Spehro Pefhany
wrote:

On Fri, 17 Feb 2012 10:20:10 -0500, the renowned Phil Hobbs
wrote:




I suspect it's a 1 mm sliver of a larger IC. Dicing yield would be a
problem with something 40 thou wide and an inch long, not to mention the
tendency of the chips to fall over.

Here's a smaller example of this genre of chip:
http://www.tstonramp.com/~pddwebacc/...805%20-1_4.pdf

11mm x 1.21mm.

They're used in zillions of LCD (and I guess OLED) panels in all kinds
of consumer goods (cell phones, GPS units, printer and camera displays
etc. etc.


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany

Yes ;-)

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

Jim Thompson wrote:

PWM BOOST is NOT trivial, though I'm well on my way to an off-the-wall
STABLE solution... found by running the math instead of my mouth.

Off the wall in what way?


--

Reply in group, but if emailing add one more
zero, and remove the last word.

On Sun, 19 Feb 2012 20:34:28 -0500, "Tom Del Rosso"
wrote:


Jim Thompson wrote:

PWM BOOST is NOT trivial, though I'm well on my way to an off-the-wall
STABLE solution... found by running the math instead of my mouth.

Off the wall in what way?

In ways I will apply for patent, then explain ;-)

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

Jim Thompson wrote:
On Sun, 19 Feb 2012 20:34:28 -0500, "Tom Del Rosso"
wrote:


Jim Thompson wrote:

PWM BOOST is NOT trivial, though I'm well on my way to an
off-the-wall STABLE solution... found by running the math instead
of my mouth.

Off the wall in what way?

In ways I will apply for patent, then explain ;-)

So it's totally wacky then.




--

Reply in group, but if emailing add one more
zero, and remove the last word.

On Tue, 21 Feb 2012 00:45:00 -0500, "Tom Del Rosso"
wrote:


Jim Thompson wrote:
On Sun, 19 Feb 2012 20:34:28 -0500, "Tom Del Rosso"
wrote:


Jim Thompson wrote:

PWM BOOST is NOT trivial, though I'm well on my way to an
off-the-wall STABLE solution... found by running the math instead
of my mouth.

Off the wall in what way?

In ways I will apply for patent, then explain ;-)

So it's totally wacky then.



Continuous-mode PWM boost is just one baby step past trivial. All you
minimally need to do is limit the ON duty cycle to a modest amount
past what you need to overcome losses, to avoid the 100% ON
singularity. It's been done zillions of times. If a uP is generating
the PWM, you can do a smart algorithm with nice ramp-ups and stable
current limiting.

On Tue, 21 Feb 2012 00:45:00 -0500, "Tom Del Rosso"
wrote:


Jim Thompson wrote:
On Sun, 19 Feb 2012 20:34:28 -0500, "Tom Del Rosso"
wrote:


Jim Thompson wrote:

PWM BOOST is NOT trivial, though I'm well on my way to an
off-the-wall STABLE solution... found by running the math instead
of my mouth.

Off the wall in what way?

In ways I will apply for patent, then explain ;-)

So it's totally wacky then.



Of course. That's my specialty... be different :-)

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

On Mon, 20 Feb 2012 22:02:09 -0800, John Larkin
wrote:

On Tue, 21 Feb 2012 00:45:00 -0500, "Tom Del Rosso"
wrote:


Jim Thompson wrote:
On Sun, 19 Feb 2012 20:34:28 -0500, "Tom Del Rosso"
wrote:


Jim Thompson wrote:

PWM BOOST is NOT trivial, though I'm well on my way to an
off-the-wall STABLE solution... found by running the math instead
of my mouth.

Off the wall in what way?

In ways I will apply for patent, then explain ;-)

So it's totally wacky then.



Continuous-mode PWM boost is just one baby step past trivial. All you
minimally need to do is limit the ON duty cycle to a modest amount
past what you need to overcome losses, to avoid the 100% ON
singularity. It's been done zillions of times. If a uP is generating
the PWM, you can do a smart algorithm with nice ramp-ups and stable
current limiting.


I'm sure glad everything is trivial for his majesty.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

On Tue, 21 Feb 2012 08:11:30 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:

On Mon, 20 Feb 2012 22:02:09 -0800, John Larkin
wrote:

On Tue, 21 Feb 2012 00:45:00 -0500, "Tom Del Rosso"
wrote:


Jim Thompson wrote:
On Sun, 19 Feb 2012 20:34:28 -0500, "Tom Del Rosso"
wrote:


Jim Thompson wrote:

PWM BOOST is NOT trivial, though I'm well on my way to an
off-the-wall STABLE solution... found by running the math instead
of my mouth.

Off the wall in what way?

In ways I will apply for patent, then explain ;-)

So it's totally wacky then.



Continuous-mode PWM boost is just one baby step past trivial. All you
minimally need to do is limit the ON duty cycle to a modest amount
past what you need to overcome losses, to avoid the 100% ON
singularity. It's been done zillions of times. If a uP is generating
the PWM, you can do a smart algorithm with nice ramp-ups and stable
current limiting.


I'm sure glad everything is trivial for his majesty.

...Jim Thompson

Not everthing, but continuous-mode, PWM controlled boost has been done
for about 0.4 century now. I doubt there's anything patentable that
somebody hasn't done already.

I've done it a bunch of times, including boosters that transitioned
from discontinuous to continuous as the load increased. I've met
people who were horrified of continuous-mode boost; don't know why
they were. It's really nice and clean and doesn't need snubbing. Just
avoid the singularity.

"John Larkin" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 21 Feb 2012 08:11:30 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:

On Mon, 20 Feb 2012 22:02:09 -0800, John Larkin
wrote:

On Tue, 21 Feb 2012 00:45:00 -0500, "Tom Del Rosso"
wrote:


Jim Thompson wrote:
On Sun, 19 Feb 2012 20:34:28 -0500, "Tom Del Rosso"
wrote:


Jim Thompson wrote:

PWM BOOST is NOT trivial, though I'm well on my way to an
off-the-wall STABLE solution... found by running the math instead
of my mouth.

Off the wall in what way?

In ways I will apply for patent, then explain ;-)

So it's totally wacky then.



Continuous-mode PWM boost is just one baby step past trivial. All you
minimally need to do is limit the ON duty cycle to a modest amount
past what you need to overcome losses, to avoid the 100% ON
singularity. It's been done zillions of times. If a uP is generating
the PWM, you can do a smart algorithm with nice ramp-ups and stable
current limiting.


I'm sure glad everything is trivial for his majesty.

...Jim Thompson

Not everthing, but continuous-mode, PWM controlled boost has been done
for about 0.4 century now. I doubt there's anything patentable that
somebody hasn't done already.

I've done it a bunch of times, including boosters that transitioned
from discontinuous to continuous as the load increased. I've met
people who were horrified of continuous-mode boost; don't know why
they were. It's really nice and clean and doesn't need snubbing. Just
avoid the singularity.


Stop - you'll confuse the poor little mite.

"Jim Thompson" wrote in
message ...
On Tue, 21 Feb 2012 00:45:00 -0500, "Tom Del Rosso"
wrote:


Jim Thompson wrote:
On Sun, 19 Feb 2012 20:34:28 -0500, "Tom Del Rosso"
wrote:


Jim Thompson wrote:

PWM BOOST is NOT trivial, though I'm well on my way to an
off-the-wall STABLE solution... found by running the math instead
of my mouth.

Off the wall in what way?

In ways I will apply for patent, then explain ;-)

So it's totally wacky then.



Of course. That's my specialty... be different :-)

...Jim Thompson


Some would say; "special".

John Larkin wrote:
Just avoid the singularity.

Avoiding black holes goes without saying.


--

Reply in group, but if emailing add one more
zero, and remove the last word.