Tinkering with the old Sturmey archer bicycle dynamo, I was wondering
whether it would charge a 1.2Ah SLA any better if the loading was modified.

The generator is rated 6V/3W, but off load at a decent rate of knots it can
produce over a couple of hundred volts.

What I was wondering was whether its possible to get more energy into the
battery by letting the generator output voltage stretch its legs so to speak
and convert the excessive voltage down with a buck converter.

Can anyone advise on the practicality of this please?

Thanks.

"Ian Field" wrote in message
...
Tinkering with the old Sturmey archer bicycle dynamo, I was wondering
whether it would charge a 1.2Ah SLA any better if the loading was
modified.

The generator is rated 6V/3W, but off load at a decent rate of knots
it can produce over a couple of hundred volts.

What I was wondering was whether its possible to get more energy into
the battery by letting the generator output voltage stretch its legs
so to speak and convert the excessive voltage down with a buck
converter.

Can anyone advise on the practicality of this please?

Thanks.


It doesn't matter what the Voltage/current ratio is, but all you'll get
out of it is 3W.
If you step it up to 12v you loose some efficiency in the conversion, so
you'll get ~85% of 3W.

Cheers

On Sun, 27 Nov 2011 14:56:00 -0000, "Ian Field"
wrote:

Tinkering with the old Sturmey archer bicycle dynamo, I was wondering
whether it would charge a 1.2Ah SLA any better if the loading was modified.

The generator is rated 6V/3W, but off load at a decent rate of knots it can
produce over a couple of hundred volts.

What I was wondering was whether its possible to get more energy into the
battery by letting the generator output voltage stretch its legs so to speak
and convert the excessive voltage down with a buck converter.

Can anyone advise on the practicality of this please?

Thanks.


You'd have to experiment with different load resistances to see what
it can deliver.

Alternators like this are often designed with a lot of internal series
inductance. As speed increases, open-circuit terminal voltage
increases, but the series inductance impedance increases too, tending
to make them constant-current sources, ideal for driving light bulbs
at sorta constant brightness at various speeds.

So I'd think that you can get more than 3 watts at higher spin speeds,
with a proper load. A series capacitor, to resonate out the inductance
at some speed, would be interesting.

Given an AC source with internal series inductance, a conjugate load
(resistor in series with a capacitor) maximizes power transfer.

Experiment! Measure!

John

"Martin Riddle" wrote in message
...

"Ian Field" wrote in message
...
Tinkering with the old Sturmey archer bicycle dynamo, I was wondering
whether it would charge a 1.2Ah SLA any better if the loading was
modified.

The generator is rated 6V/3W, but off load at a decent rate of knots it
can produce over a couple of hundred volts.

What I was wondering was whether its possible to get more energy into the
battery by letting the generator output voltage stretch its legs so to
speak and convert the excessive voltage down with a buck converter.

Can anyone advise on the practicality of this please?

Thanks.


It doesn't matter what the Voltage/current ratio is, but all you'll get
out of it is 3W.
If you step it up to 12v you loose some efficiency in the conversion, so
you'll get ~85% of 3W.

FYI: I'm already getting more than 3W by using a voltage doubling bridge
rectifier, the 6V SLA prevents it from actually doubling the voltage but in
trying to do so it pushes a little more current than it was designed to.

You seem to have not understood what I meant by letting the generator output
voltage stretch its legs - I'm not talking about using a boost converter to
increase the voltage, I'm talking about reducing the current draw with a
buck converter so the output voltage rises due to less current draw.

"John Larkin" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 27 Nov 2011 14:56:00 -0000, "Ian Field"
wrote:

Tinkering with the old Sturmey archer bicycle dynamo, I was wondering
whether it would charge a 1.2Ah SLA any better if the loading was
modified.

The generator is rated 6V/3W, but off load at a decent rate of knots it
can
produce over a couple of hundred volts.

What I was wondering was whether its possible to get more energy into the
battery by letting the generator output voltage stretch its legs so to
speak
and convert the excessive voltage down with a buck converter.

Can anyone advise on the practicality of this please?

Thanks.


You'd have to experiment with different load resistances to see what
it can deliver.

Alternators like this are often designed with a lot of internal series
inductance. As speed increases, open-circuit terminal voltage
increases, but the series inductance impedance increases too, tending
to make them constant-current sources, ideal for driving light bulbs
at sorta constant brightness at various speeds.

So I'd think that you can get more than 3 watts at higher spin speeds,
with a proper load. A series capacitor, to resonate out the inductance
at some speed, would be interesting.

Given an AC source with internal series inductance, a conjugate load
(resistor in series with a capacitor) maximizes power transfer.

Experiment! Measure!

That would be the ideal route and probably lots of fun, but I don't have
bench space for a jig to hold a hub and provide drive to spin it. And I'd
rather avoid twiddling knobs and reading dials while pedalling a bicycle.

An idea of whether the notion is sound is all I'm really after, if it has a
chance of working I could cobble together a prototype buck converter and see
what happens.

The magnet has a large number of poles so the AC frequency is quite high for
any given RPM, so the inductance doesn't need to be all that high for the
output to approximate to a current source.

The current setup has a pair of largish 6.3V electrolytics from a scrap
motherboard to make the bridge rectifier doubling, getting big enough caps
to handle the 30 - 40V limit imposed by common SMPSU chips might be fun, but
I think the doubling rectifier might be a prerequisite to get a worthwhile
increase from what I'm considering.

On Sun, 27 Nov 2011 10:50:39 -0800, Fred Abse
wrote:

On Sun, 27 Nov 2011 10:28:17 -0800, John Larkin wrote:

Alternators like this are often designed with a lot of internal series
inductance. As speed increases, open-circuit terminal voltage
increases, but the series inductance impedance increases too, tending
to make them constant-current sources, ideal for driving light bulbs
at sorta constant brightness at various speeds.

What I was going to say.

I think there is an ancient patent somewhere about just that.

Well! Alternators _are_ current sources, but not for the reason
Larkin claims... no surprise ;-)

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

"Jim Thompson" wrote in
message ...
On Sun, 27 Nov 2011 10:50:39 -0800, Fred Abse
wrote:

On Sun, 27 Nov 2011 10:28:17 -0800, John Larkin wrote:

Alternators like this are often designed with a lot of internal series
inductance. As speed increases, open-circuit terminal voltage
increases, but the series inductance impedance increases too, tending
to make them constant-current sources, ideal for driving light bulbs
at sorta constant brightness at various speeds.

What I was going to say.

I think there is an ancient patent somewhere about just that.

Well! Alternators _are_ current sources, but not for the reason
Larkin claims... no surprise ;-)

...Jim Thompson


That's all we need - the schoolyard bully just turned up!

On 11/27/2011 1:03 PM, Ian Field wrote:
"John wrote in message
...
On Sun, 27 Nov 2011 14:56:00 -0000, "Ian Field"
wrote:

Tinkering with the old Sturmey archer bicycle dynamo, I was wondering
whether it would charge a 1.2Ah SLA any better if the loading was
modified.

The generator is rated 6V/3W, but off load at a decent rate of knots it
can
produce over a couple of hundred volts.

What I was wondering was whether its possible to get more energy into the
battery by letting the generator output voltage stretch its legs so to
speak
and convert the excessive voltage down with a buck converter.

I just saw a piece on tv about a health club that has all exercise
bikes fitted with a generator. They are all wired to a panel that has an
inverter. The energy is used in the healthclub. They have a display on
the wall showing current watts being produced. At one point it showed
2,400 watts, later I saw about 1,300 watts.
I suspect their payback will be long.
Mikek

On Sun, 27 Nov 2011 15:40:27 -0600, amdx wrote:

On 11/27/2011 1:03 PM, Ian Field wrote:
"John wrote in message
...
On Sun, 27 Nov 2011 14:56:00 -0000, "Ian Field"
wrote:

Tinkering with the old Sturmey archer bicycle dynamo, I was wondering
whether it would charge a 1.2Ah SLA any better if the loading was
modified.

The generator is rated 6V/3W, but off load at a decent rate of knots it
can
produce over a couple of hundred volts.

What I was wondering was whether its possible to get more energy into the
battery by letting the generator output voltage stretch its legs so to
speak
and convert the excessive voltage down with a buck converter.

I just saw a piece on tv about a health club that has all exercise
bikes fitted with a generator. They are all wired to a panel that has an
inverter. The energy is used in the healthclub. They have a display on
the wall showing current watts being produced. At one point it showed
2,400 watts, later I saw about 1,300 watts.
I suspect their payback will be long.
Mikek

Not necessarily. I worked on an exercise bicycle design wa-a-a-ay
back in the early '70's, standard automotive alternator provided all
the power, and the drag... into a resistive load... might as well
distribute it... run the TV's, music, etc.. ;-)

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

John Larkin wrote:

Experiment! Measure!

"Take chances! Make mistakes! Get messy!"
--- Ms. Frizzle, "Magic School Bus."
--- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...Bus_characters

Cheers!
Rich

On Sun, 27 Nov 2011 18:47:01 -0000, "Ian Field"
wrote:


FYI: I'm already getting more than 3W by using a voltage doubling bridge
rectifier,

---
How are you managing to double the voltage using a bridge rectifier?

--
JF

"John Fields" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 27 Nov 2011 18:47:01 -0000, "Ian Field"
wrote:


FYI: I'm already getting more than 3W by using a voltage doubling bridge
rectifier,

---
How are you managing to double the voltage using a bridge rectifier?

--
JF


You don't know!!!

On Mon, 28 Nov 2011 13:29:16 -0000, "Ian Field"
wrote:


"John Fields" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 27 Nov 2011 18:47:01 -0000, "Ian Field"
wrote:


FYI: I'm already getting more than 3W by using a voltage doubling bridge
rectifier,

---
How are you managing to double the voltage using a bridge rectifier?

--
JF


You don't know!!!

---
Don't be ridiculous; I'm just interested in how _you're_ managing to
do it.

--
JF

"John Fields" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 28 Nov 2011 13:29:16 -0000, "Ian Field"
wrote:


"John Fields" wrote in message
. ..
On Sun, 27 Nov 2011 18:47:01 -0000, "Ian Field"
wrote:


FYI: I'm already getting more than 3W by using a voltage doubling bridge
rectifier,

---
How are you managing to double the voltage using a bridge rectifier?

--
JF


You don't know!!!

---
Don't be ridiculous; I'm just interested in how _you're_ managing to
do it.

--
JF


Same way as all those PC PSUs (and loads of other things) that have 2
electrolytics in the rectifier/reservoir and a 110/230V jumper link.

On Mon, 28 Nov 2011 08:21:31 -0600, John Fields
wrote:

On Mon, 28 Nov 2011 13:29:16 -0000, "Ian Field"
wrote:


"John Fields" wrote in message
. ..
On Sun, 27 Nov 2011 18:47:01 -0000, "Ian Field"
wrote:


FYI: I'm already getting more than 3W by using a voltage doubling bridge
rectifier,

---
How are you managing to double the voltage using a bridge rectifier?

--
JF


You don't know!!!

---
Don't be ridiculous; I'm just interested in how _you're_ managing to
do it.

Ian Field is a village idiot... lots of them seem to inhabit ntlworld,
so it's simplest to whitelist the few good guys, then killfile ALL the
rest of ntlworld.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

"Fred Abse" wrote in message
news
On Mon, 28 Nov 2011 14:38:05 +0000, Ian Field wrote:

Same way as all those PC PSUs (and loads of other things) that have 2
electrolytics in the rectifier/reservoir and a 110/230V jumper link.

In common parlance, that's a voltage doubler, not a bridge.


In actual fact its a bridge rectifier when set to run on 230V and a doubler
when linked for 110V.

"Jim Thompson" wrote in
message ...
On Mon, 28 Nov 2011 08:21:31 -0600, John Fields
wrote:

On Mon, 28 Nov 2011 13:29:16 -0000, "Ian Field"
wrote:


"John Fields" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 27 Nov 2011 18:47:01 -0000, "Ian Field"
wrote:


FYI: I'm already getting more than 3W by using a voltage doubling
bridge
rectifier,

---
How are you managing to double the voltage using a bridge rectifier?

--
JF


You don't know!!!

---
Don't be ridiculous; I'm just interested in how _you're_ managing to
do it.

Ian Field is a village idiot... lots of them seem to inhabit ntlworld,
so it's simplest to whitelist the few good guys, then killfile ALL the
rest of ntlworld.

...Jim Thompson


Do they still let you out on your own!!!

John Fields wrote:
On Sun, 27 Nov 2011 18:47:01 -0000, "Ian Field"

FYI: I'm already getting more than 3W by using a voltage doubling bridge
rectifier,

How are you managing to double the voltage using a bridge rectifier?

Replace two of the diodes with capacitors, say "Gazonga!" three times,
and drink the blood of a freshly sacrificed chicken...

;-)

Cheers!
Rich

On Sun, 27 Nov 2011 19:50:15 -0000, "Ian Field"
wrote:


"Jim Thompson" wrote in
message ...
On Sun, 27 Nov 2011 10:50:39 -0800, Fred Abse
wrote:

On Sun, 27 Nov 2011 10:28:17 -0800, John Larkin wrote:

Alternators like this are often designed with a lot of internal series
inductance. As speed increases, open-circuit terminal voltage
increases, but the series inductance impedance increases too, tending
to make them constant-current sources, ideal for driving light bulbs
at sorta constant brightness at various speeds.

What I was going to say.

I think there is an ancient patent somewhere about just that.

Well! Alternators _are_ current sources, but not for the reason
Larkin claims... no surprise ;-)

...Jim Thompson


That's all we need - the schoolyard bully just turned up!


And, as usual, he offers no actual information.

John

On Sun, 27 Nov 2011 12:06:24 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:

On Sun, 27 Nov 2011 10:50:39 -0800, Fred Abse
wrote:

On Sun, 27 Nov 2011 10:28:17 -0800, John Larkin wrote:

Alternators like this are often designed with a lot of internal series
inductance. As speed increases, open-circuit terminal voltage
increases, but the series inductance impedance increases too, tending
to make them constant-current sources, ideal for driving light bulbs
at sorta constant brightness at various speeds.

What I was going to say.

I think there is an ancient patent somewhere about just that.

Well! Alternators _are_ current sources,

Ah, so their terminal voltage must be infinite.

John

"John Larkin" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 27 Nov 2011 19:50:15 -0000, "Ian Field"
wrote:


"Jim Thompson" wrote in
message ...
On Sun, 27 Nov 2011 10:50:39 -0800, Fred Abse
wrote:

On Sun, 27 Nov 2011 10:28:17 -0800, John Larkin wrote:

Alternators like this are often designed with a lot of internal series
inductance. As speed increases, open-circuit terminal voltage
increases, but the series inductance impedance increases too, tending
to make them constant-current sources, ideal for driving light bulbs
at sorta constant brightness at various speeds.

What I was going to say.

I think there is an ancient patent somewhere about just that.

Well! Alternators _are_ current sources, but not for the reason
Larkin claims... no surprise ;-)

...Jim Thompson


That's all we need - the schoolyard bully just turned up!


And, as usual, he offers no actual information.

John

Jim makes you think. That does not make him a bully. But I can see
where those who need to be spoon fed may think so.
Art

On Mon, 28 Nov 2011 14:38:05 -0000, "Ian Field"
wrote:


"John Fields" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 28 Nov 2011 13:29:16 -0000, "Ian Field"
wrote:


"John Fields" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 27 Nov 2011 18:47:01 -0000, "Ian Field"
wrote:


FYI: I'm already getting more than 3W by using a voltage doubling bridge
rectifier,

---
How are you managing to double the voltage using a bridge rectifier?

--
JF


You don't know!!!

---
Don't be ridiculous; I'm just interested in how _you're_ managing to
do it.

--
JF


Same way as all those PC PSUs (and loads of other things) that have 2
electrolytics in the rectifier/reservoir and a 110/230V jumper link.

---
So you're wasting two diodes and a switch?

--
JF

On Mon, 28 Nov 2011 19:29:53 -0800, "Artemus"
wrote:


"John Larkin" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 27 Nov 2011 19:50:15 -0000, "Ian Field"
wrote:


"Jim Thompson" wrote in
message ...
On Sun, 27 Nov 2011 10:50:39 -0800, Fred Abse
wrote:

On Sun, 27 Nov 2011 10:28:17 -0800, John Larkin wrote:

Alternators like this are often designed with a lot of internal series
inductance. As speed increases, open-circuit terminal voltage
increases, but the series inductance impedance increases too, tending
to make them constant-current sources, ideal for driving light bulbs
at sorta constant brightness at various speeds.

What I was going to say.

I think there is an ancient patent somewhere about just that.

Well! Alternators _are_ current sources, but not for the reason
Larkin claims... no surprise ;-)

...Jim Thompson


That's all we need - the schoolyard bully just turned up!


And, as usual, he offers no actual information.

John

Jim makes you think. That does not make him a bully. But I can see
where those who need to be spoon fed may think so.
Art


Thank you, Art!

For those lurkers here seeking real information about alternators,
rather than blarney from the stoned, 4 of my 18 patents are about
alternator controls. PDF's at the bottom of the first page of my
site.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

"John Fields" wrote in message
news
On Mon, 28 Nov 2011 14:38:05 -0000, "Ian Field"
wrote:


"John Fields" wrote in message
. ..
On Mon, 28 Nov 2011 13:29:16 -0000, "Ian Field"
wrote:


"John Fields" wrote in message
m...
On Sun, 27 Nov 2011 18:47:01 -0000, "Ian Field"
wrote:


FYI: I'm already getting more than 3W by using a voltage doubling
bridge
rectifier,

---
How are you managing to double the voltage using a bridge rectifier?

--
JF


You don't know!!!

---
Don't be ridiculous; I'm just interested in how _you're_ managing to
do it.

--
JF


Same way as all those PC PSUs (and loads of other things) that have 2
electrolytics in the rectifier/reservoir and a 110/230V jumper link.

---
So you're wasting two diodes and a switch?

--
JF

I don't think you've quite recovered from being dropped on your head
(several times!).

There was a very strong temptation not to dignify your idiotic comment with
a response, however since you appear to be an absolute novice I will try as
hard as I can to educate you.

It started off as a plain bridge rectifier, but I used a "trick of the
trade" of adding voltage doubler capacitors - although the SLA battery will
prevent it actually doubling, in trying to do so it will force the
alternator to push more current.

The 2 diodes that became surplus to requirement were doing no harm left
where they were and were not wasted as compared to ripping out the bridge
rectifier and replacing it with 2 individual diodes - unless maybe you think
I should have milled away half the bridge rectifier!

I don't know where you got a switch - I only mentioned a 110V setting link.

"Rich Grise" wrote in message
...
John Fields wrote:
On Sun, 27 Nov 2011 18:47:01 -0000, "Ian Field"

FYI: I'm already getting more than 3W by using a voltage doubling bridge
rectifier,

How are you managing to double the voltage using a bridge rectifier?

Replace two of the diodes with capacitors, say "Gazonga!" three times,
and drink the blood of a freshly sacrificed chicken...

The 2 added capacitors is what I just said I did (do try to pay attention at
the back).

The weird stuff I'll leave to your capable self.

"Artemus" wrote in message
...

"John Larkin" wrote in
message
...
On Sun, 27 Nov 2011 19:50:15 -0000, "Ian Field"
wrote:


"Jim Thompson" wrote
in
message ...
On Sun, 27 Nov 2011 10:50:39 -0800, Fred Abse
wrote:

On Sun, 27 Nov 2011 10:28:17 -0800, John Larkin wrote:

Alternators like this are often designed with a lot of internal
series
inductance. As speed increases, open-circuit terminal voltage
increases, but the series inductance impedance increases too,
tending
to make them constant-current sources, ideal for driving light bulbs
at sorta constant brightness at various speeds.

What I was going to say.

I think there is an ancient patent somewhere about just that.

Well! Alternators _are_ current sources, but not for the reason
Larkin claims... no surprise ;-)

...Jim Thompson


That's all we need - the schoolyard bully just turned up!


And, as usual, he offers no actual information.

John

Jim makes you think.

He might make you think (I shudder to think what about!!!), but when he's
not posting his inane political rants, the thing I see him doing most is
hurling insults at people he doesn't agree with - he was straight on the
attack (totally unprovoked) at JL and didn't take long to follow up by
calling me a village idiot.

He fits the profile of a troll perfectly - every time I post a question he
turns it into a flame war and prevents me getting any answers.

You soon get to know who people are - birds of a feather stick together.

"John Larkin" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 27 Nov 2011 12:06:24 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:

On Sun, 27 Nov 2011 10:50:39 -0800, Fred Abse
wrote:

On Sun, 27 Nov 2011 10:28:17 -0800, John Larkin wrote:

Alternators like this are often designed with a lot of internal series
inductance. As speed increases, open-circuit terminal voltage
increases, but the series inductance impedance increases too, tending
to make them constant-current sources, ideal for driving light bulbs
at sorta constant brightness at various speeds.

What I was going to say.

I think there is an ancient patent somewhere about just that.

Well! Alternators _are_ current sources,

Ah, so their terminal voltage must be infinite.

John


Just ignore the troll JT - every time I ask a question, him and JF troll up
a flame war so I don't get any answers.

On Tue, 29 Nov 2011 15:45:26 -0000, "Ian Field"
wrote:


"John Larkin" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 27 Nov 2011 12:06:24 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:

On Sun, 27 Nov 2011 10:50:39 -0800, Fred Abse
wrote:

On Sun, 27 Nov 2011 10:28:17 -0800, John Larkin wrote:

Alternators like this are often designed with a lot of internal series
inductance. As speed increases, open-circuit terminal voltage
increases, but the series inductance impedance increases too, tending
to make them constant-current sources, ideal for driving light bulbs
at sorta constant brightness at various speeds.

What I was going to say.

I think there is an ancient patent somewhere about just that.

Well! Alternators _are_ current sources,

Ah, so their terminal voltage must be infinite.

John


Just ignore the troll JT - every time I ask a question, him and JF troll up
a flame war so I don't get any answers.


JF doesn't understand enough to furnish help, and JT might
occasionally, within his narrow range of expertise, but all he wants
to do is strut about past glories and inflate his ego, and doesn't
actually want to be helpful. Both are sad old fools.

John

"John Larkin" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 29 Nov 2011 15:45:26 -0000, "Ian Field"
wrote:


"John Larkin" wrote in
message
. ..
On Sun, 27 Nov 2011 12:06:24 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:

On Sun, 27 Nov 2011 10:50:39 -0800, Fred Abse
wrote:

On Sun, 27 Nov 2011 10:28:17 -0800, John Larkin wrote:

Alternators like this are often designed with a lot of internal
series
inductance. As speed increases, open-circuit terminal voltage
increases, but the series inductance impedance increases too, tending
to make them constant-current sources, ideal for driving light bulbs
at sorta constant brightness at various speeds.

What I was going to say.

I think there is an ancient patent somewhere about just that.

Well! Alternators _are_ current sources,

Ah, so their terminal voltage must be infinite.

John


Just ignore the troll JT - every time I ask a question, him and JF troll
up
a flame war so I don't get any answers.


JF doesn't understand enough to furnish help,

That much is evident from the clueless questions he comes back with - I
thought he was trolling.

"Fred Abse" wrote in message
news
On Sun, 27 Nov 2011 15:40:27 -0600, amdx wrote:

I suspect their payback will be long.

Nah! The management is charging members for the privilege of generating
electricity for the management's use.

Especially if each one has a kWh meter and gym members compete.

On Tue, 29 Nov 2011 15:43:20 -0000, "Ian Field"
wrote:


"Artemus" wrote in message
...

"John Larkin" wrote in
message
...
On Sun, 27 Nov 2011 19:50:15 -0000, "Ian Field"
wrote:


"Jim Thompson" wrote
in
message ...
On Sun, 27 Nov 2011 10:50:39 -0800, Fred Abse
wrote:

On Sun, 27 Nov 2011 10:28:17 -0800, John Larkin wrote:

Alternators like this are often designed with a lot of internal
series
inductance. As speed increases, open-circuit terminal voltage
increases, but the series inductance impedance increases too,
tending
to make them constant-current sources, ideal for driving light bulbs
at sorta constant brightness at various speeds.

What I was going to say.

I think there is an ancient patent somewhere about just that.

Well! Alternators _are_ current sources, but not for the reason
Larkin claims... no surprise ;-)

...Jim Thompson


That's all we need - the schoolyard bully just turned up!


And, as usual, he offers no actual information.

John

Jim makes you think.

He might make you think (I shudder to think what about!!!),

---
You should shudder, since you seem to have so little technical acumen
and he isn't afraid to point you out as the village idiot.
---

but when he's
not posting his inane political rants, the thing I see him doing most is
hurling insults at people he doesn't agree with - he was straight on the
attack (totally unprovoked) at JL and didn't take long to follow up by
calling me a village idiot.

---
Why should it, when it certainly doesn't take long to state the
obvious?
---

He fits the profile of a troll perfectly - every time I post a question he
turns it into a flame war and prevents me getting any answers.

---
Please...

You're just not important enough to be flamed for honest questions you
ask and, as far as I can tell, you aren't.

What you _do_ get flamed for is being an arrogant little prig.
---

You soon get to know who people are - birds of a feather stick together.

---
It's: "Birds of a feather flock together."

Birds which stick together don't need to be "of a feather", they just
need to land in an oil slick.

--
JF

"John Fields" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 29 Nov 2011 15:43:20 -0000, "Ian Field"
wrote:


"Artemus" wrote in message
...

"John Larkin" wrote in
message
...
On Sun, 27 Nov 2011 19:50:15 -0000, "Ian Field"
wrote:


"Jim Thompson"
wrote
in
message ...
On Sun, 27 Nov 2011 10:50:39 -0800, Fred Abse
wrote:

On Sun, 27 Nov 2011 10:28:17 -0800, John Larkin wrote:

Alternators like this are often designed with a lot of internal
series
inductance. As speed increases, open-circuit terminal voltage
increases, but the series inductance impedance increases too,
tending
to make them constant-current sources, ideal for driving light
bulbs
at sorta constant brightness at various speeds.

What I was going to say.

I think there is an ancient patent somewhere about just that.

Well! Alternators _are_ current sources, but not for the reason
Larkin claims... no surprise ;-)

...Jim Thompson


That's all we need - the schoolyard bully just turned up!


And, as usual, he offers no actual information.

John

Jim makes you think.

He might make you think (I shudder to think what about!!!),

---
You should shudder, since you seem to have so little technical acumen
and he isn't afraid to point you out as the village idiot.
---

but when he's
not posting his inane political rants, the thing I see him doing most is
hurling insults at people he doesn't agree with - he was straight on the
attack (totally unprovoked) at JL and didn't take long to follow up by
calling me a village idiot.

---
Why should it, when it certainly doesn't take long to state the
obvious?
---

He fits the profile of a troll perfectly - every time I post a question he
turns it into a flame war and prevents me getting any answers.

---
Please...

You're just not important enough to be flamed for honest questions you
ask and, as far as I can tell, you aren't.

What you _do_ get flamed for is being an arrogant little prig.
---

You soon get to know who people are - birds of a feather stick together.

---
It's: "Birds of a feather flock together."

Birds which stick together don't need to be "of a feather", they just
need to land in an oil slick.

--
JF

Just keep on trolling - it suits me you showing your true colours.

On Tue, 29 Nov 2011 16:38:40 -0600, John Fields
wrote:

On Tue, 29 Nov 2011 15:43:20 -0000, "Ian Field"
wrote:


"Artemus" wrote in message
...

"John Larkin" wrote in
message
...
On Sun, 27 Nov 2011 19:50:15 -0000, "Ian Field"
wrote:


"Jim Thompson" wrote
in
message ...
On Sun, 27 Nov 2011 10:50:39 -0800, Fred Abse
wrote:

On Sun, 27 Nov 2011 10:28:17 -0800, John Larkin wrote:

Alternators like this are often designed with a lot of internal
series
inductance. As speed increases, open-circuit terminal voltage
increases, but the series inductance impedance increases too,
tending
to make them constant-current sources, ideal for driving light bulbs
at sorta constant brightness at various speeds.

What I was going to say.

I think there is an ancient patent somewhere about just that.

Well! Alternators _are_ current sources, but not for the reason
Larkin claims... no surprise ;-)

...Jim Thompson


That's all we need - the schoolyard bully just turned up!


And, as usual, he offers no actual information.

John

Jim makes you think.

He might make you think (I shudder to think what about!!!),

---
You should shudder, since you seem to have so little technical acumen
and he isn't afraid to point you out as the village idiot.
---

but when he's
not posting his inane political rants, the thing I see him doing most is
hurling insults at people he doesn't agree with - he was straight on the
attack (totally unprovoked) at JL

Totally unprovoked? Hardly. Larkin was plain-assed WRONG (as usual
by the way). But that doesn't seem to matter to you plain-half-assed
village idiots.

and didn't take long to follow up by
calling me a village idiot.

Am I not correct? Care to present some contradictory evidence?

[snip]

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

On Mon, 28 Nov 2011 16:51:45 -0800, John Larkin
wrote:

On Sun, 27 Nov 2011 12:06:24 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:

On Sun, 27 Nov 2011 10:50:39 -0800, Fred Abse
wrote:

On Sun, 27 Nov 2011 10:28:17 -0800, John Larkin wrote:

Alternators like this are often designed with a lot of internal series
inductance. As speed increases, open-circuit terminal voltage
increases, but the series inductance impedance increases too, tending
to make them constant-current sources, ideal for driving light bulbs
at sorta constant brightness at various speeds.

What I was going to say.

I think there is an ancient patent somewhere about just that.

Well! Alternators _are_ current sources,

Ah, so their terminal voltage must be infinite.

John

---
And, indeed, it would be, would not Mother Nature conspire against it
with the spoiler, resistance.

--
JF

"Jim Thompson" wrote in
message ...
On Tue, 29 Nov 2011 16:38:40 -0600, John Fields
wrote:

On Tue, 29 Nov 2011 15:43:20 -0000, "Ian Field"
wrote:


"Artemus" wrote in message
...

"John Larkin" wrote in
message
...
On Sun, 27 Nov 2011 19:50:15 -0000, "Ian Field"
wrote:


"Jim Thompson"
wrote
in
message ...
On Sun, 27 Nov 2011 10:50:39 -0800, Fred Abse
wrote:

On Sun, 27 Nov 2011 10:28:17 -0800, John Larkin wrote:

Alternators like this are often designed with a lot of internal
series
inductance. As speed increases, open-circuit terminal voltage
increases, but the series inductance impedance increases too,
tending
to make them constant-current sources, ideal for driving light
bulbs
at sorta constant brightness at various speeds.

What I was going to say.

I think there is an ancient patent somewhere about just that.

Well! Alternators _are_ current sources, but not for the reason
Larkin claims... no surprise ;-)

...Jim Thompson


That's all we need - the schoolyard bully just turned up!


And, as usual, he offers no actual information.

John

Jim makes you think.

He might make you think (I shudder to think what about!!!),

---
You should shudder, since you seem to have so little technical acumen
and he isn't afraid to point you out as the village idiot.
---

but when he's
not posting his inane political rants, the thing I see him doing most is
hurling insults at people he doesn't agree with - he was straight on the
attack (totally unprovoked) at JL

Totally unprovoked? Hardly. Larkin was plain-assed WRONG (as usual
by the way). But that doesn't seem to matter to you plain-half-assed
village idiots.

and didn't take long to follow up by
calling me a village idiot.

Am I not correct? Care to present some contradictory evidence?


You're a troll - that's all the evidence needed.

On Tue, 29 Nov 2011 16:50:02 -0600, John Fields
wrote:

On Mon, 28 Nov 2011 16:51:45 -0800, John Larkin
wrote:

On Sun, 27 Nov 2011 12:06:24 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:

On Sun, 27 Nov 2011 10:50:39 -0800, Fred Abse
wrote:

On Sun, 27 Nov 2011 10:28:17 -0800, John Larkin wrote:

Alternators like this are often designed with a lot of internal series
inductance. As speed increases, open-circuit terminal voltage
increases, but the series inductance impedance increases too, tending
to make them constant-current sources, ideal for driving light bulbs
at sorta constant brightness at various speeds.

What I was going to say.

I think there is an ancient patent somewhere about just that.

Well! Alternators _are_ current sources,

Ah, so their terminal voltage must be infinite.

John

---
And, indeed, it would be, would not Mother Nature conspire against it
with the spoiler, resistance.

When Larkin sets out to put his foot in it he just can't resist
squishing his foot around to make sure it sticks.

Suggestion to Larkin: Set up loose connection at battery post...
connects but you can pull connector off easily.

With engine running at 3000RPM (you'll need a helper, maybe Ian Field
:-), right hand on car frame, left hand at battery post, take firm
hold of connector and pull quickly off of battery.

Unless you happen to have an alternator with built-in zeners to limit
voltage, you will be dead... or at least multiple broken bones... it's
a pulse. You do know what a "pulse" is? Then come back and talk to
me about "infinite" ;-)

Young bucks... DON'T try this... this instruction for Larkin-disposal
purposes only!

(Before zeners were added to alternators I had to design to a 400V
kick, and have the regulator survive. How did I do it?)

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

On Tue, 29 Nov 2011 22:43:33 -0000, "Ian Field"
wrote:


"John Fields" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 29 Nov 2011 15:43:20 -0000, "Ian Field"
wrote:


"Artemus" wrote in message
...

"John Larkin" wrote in
message
...
On Sun, 27 Nov 2011 19:50:15 -0000, "Ian Field"
wrote:


"Jim Thompson"
wrote
in
message ...
On Sun, 27 Nov 2011 10:50:39 -0800, Fred Abse
wrote:

On Sun, 27 Nov 2011 10:28:17 -0800, John Larkin wrote:

Alternators like this are often designed with a lot of internal
series
inductance. As speed increases, open-circuit terminal voltage
increases, but the series inductance impedance increases too,
tending
to make them constant-current sources, ideal for driving light
bulbs
at sorta constant brightness at various speeds.

What I was going to say.

I think there is an ancient patent somewhere about just that.

Well! Alternators _are_ current sources, but not for the reason
Larkin claims... no surprise ;-)

...Jim Thompson


That's all we need - the schoolyard bully just turned up!


And, as usual, he offers no actual information.

John

Jim makes you think.

He might make you think (I shudder to think what about!!!),

---
You should shudder, since you seem to have so little technical acumen
and he isn't afraid to point you out as the village idiot.
---

but when he's
not posting his inane political rants, the thing I see him doing most is
hurling insults at people he doesn't agree with - he was straight on the
attack (totally unprovoked) at JL and didn't take long to follow up by
calling me a village idiot.

---
Why should it, when it certainly doesn't take long to state the
obvious?
---

He fits the profile of a troll perfectly - every time I post a question he
turns it into a flame war and prevents me getting any answers.

---
Please...

You're just not important enough to be flamed for honest questions you
ask and, as far as I can tell, you aren't.

What you _do_ get flamed for is being an arrogant little prig.
---

You soon get to know who people are - birds of a feather stick together.

---
It's: "Birds of a feather flock together."

Birds which stick together don't need to be "of a feather", they just
need to land in an oil slick.

--
JF

Just keep on trolling - it suits me you showing your true colours.

---
Then it should please you to know that because of the true colors of
my lure, on which you bit, I don't have to troll anymore, on your
case, since I've got you well and truly hooked.

All that's left now is to exhaust you as I reel you in and decide what
to do with you when you're thrashing around, gasping for breath, on my
deck.

I'll probably let you live, and throw you back into the melee with the
lesson you learned which saved your life.

--
JF

On Tue, 29 Nov 2011 22:54:39 -0000, "Ian Field"
wrote:


"Jim Thompson" wrote in
message ...

Am I not correct? Care to present some contradictory evidence?


You're a troll - that's all the evidence needed.

---
No, it isn't.

Your pronouncement that one of your detractors is a troll has nothing
to do with whether you're wrong or not.

Can you defend yourself?


--
JF

On Tue, 29 Nov 2011 18:34:03 -0600, John Fields
wrote:

On Tue, 29 Nov 2011 22:54:39 -0000, "Ian Field"
wrote:


"Jim Thompson" wrote in
message ...

Am I not correct? Care to present some contradictory evidence?


You're a troll - that's all the evidence needed.

---
No, it isn't.

Your pronouncement that one of your detractors is a troll has nothing
to do with whether you're wrong or not.

Can you defend yourself?



Isn't that an oxymoron... a pansy that can defend herself ?:-)

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

On Tue, 29 Nov 2011 18:05:50 -0600, John Fields
wrote:

On Tue, 29 Nov 2011 22:43:33 -0000, "Ian Field"
wrote:


"John Fields" wrote in message
. ..
On Tue, 29 Nov 2011 15:43:20 -0000, "Ian Field"
wrote:


"Artemus" wrote in message
...

"John Larkin" wrote in
message
...
On Sun, 27 Nov 2011 19:50:15 -0000, "Ian Field"
wrote:


"Jim Thompson"
wrote
in
message ...
On Sun, 27 Nov 2011 10:50:39 -0800, Fred Abse
wrote:

On Sun, 27 Nov 2011 10:28:17 -0800, John Larkin wrote:

Alternators like this are often designed with a lot of internal
series
inductance. As speed increases, open-circuit terminal voltage
increases, but the series inductance impedance increases too,
tending
to make them constant-current sources, ideal for driving light
bulbs
at sorta constant brightness at various speeds.

What I was going to say.

I think there is an ancient patent somewhere about just that.

Well! Alternators _are_ current sources, but not for the reason
Larkin claims... no surprise ;-)

...Jim Thompson


That's all we need - the schoolyard bully just turned up!


And, as usual, he offers no actual information.

John

Jim makes you think.

He might make you think (I shudder to think what about!!!),

---
You should shudder, since you seem to have so little technical acumen
and he isn't afraid to point you out as the village idiot.
---

but when he's
not posting his inane political rants, the thing I see him doing most is
hurling insults at people he doesn't agree with - he was straight on the
attack (totally unprovoked) at JL and didn't take long to follow up by
calling me a village idiot.

---
Why should it, when it certainly doesn't take long to state the
obvious?
---

He fits the profile of a troll perfectly - every time I post a question he
turns it into a flame war and prevents me getting any answers.

---
Please...

You're just not important enough to be flamed for honest questions you
ask and, as far as I can tell, you aren't.

What you _do_ get flamed for is being an arrogant little prig.
---

You soon get to know who people are - birds of a feather stick together.

---
It's: "Birds of a feather flock together."

Birds which stick together don't need to be "of a feather", they just
need to land in an oil slick.

--
JF

Just keep on trolling - it suits me you showing your true colours.

---
Then it should please you to know that because of the true colors of
my lure, on which you bit, I don't have to troll anymore, on your
case, since I've got you well and truly hooked.

All that's left now is to exhaust you as I reel you in and decide what
to do with you when you're thrashing around, gasping for breath, on my
deck.

I'll probably let you live, and throw you back into the melee with the
lesson you learned which saved your life.

I prefer the baseball bat approach to thrashing fish on the deck ;-)

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.