On Thu, 18 Nov 2010 15:06:34 -0800, "Joel Koltner"
wrote:

"Jim Thompson" wrote in
message ...
That aside, my favorite charity is St. Mary's Food Bank.

But I _never_ give to "corner bums"... the "need money for food"
types. The local TV here filmed one of those walking a block and
getting into his Mercedes :-(

I sure wouldn't put it past that same "corner bum" to make his next stop St.
Mary's Food Bank, though...!


Could be. But, during the year, St. Mary's Food Bank primarily
dispenses/delivers boxes of food to known families, with
cafeteria-style-walk-in limited to Thanksgiving and Christmas.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I'll have you know that I have never once referred to anyone here
as being a member of the ignorant, hateful, ugly, mooching class.

I have always been kind, referring to them by their own chosen
name... Democrats O:-)

On Thu, 18 Nov 2010 15:06:34 -0800, "Joel Koltner"
wrote:

"Jim Thompson" wrote in
message ...
That aside, my favorite charity is St. Mary's Food Bank.

But I _never_ give to "corner bums"... the "need money for food"
types. The local TV here filmed one of those walking a block and
getting into his Mercedes :-(

I sure wouldn't put it past that same "corner bum" to make his next stop St.
Mary's Food Bank, though...!


Could be. But, during the year, St. Mary's Food Bank primarily
dispenses/delivers boxes of food to known families, with
cafeteria-style-walk-in limited to Thanksgiving and Christmas.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I'll have you know that I have never once referred to anyone here
as being a member of the ignorant, hateful, ugly, mooching class.

I have always been kind, referring to them by their own chosen
name... Democrats O:-)

Jim Thompson wrote:

On Thu, 18 Nov 2010 17:02:03 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


Jim Thompson wrote:

On Thu, 18 Nov 2010 16:26:58 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


Jim Thompson wrote:

On Thu, 18 Nov 2010 16:06:03 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


hamilton wrote:

On 11/18/2010 9:43 AM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Too far for me to travel. They are located at: 3701 West 12th
Street, Topeka, Kansas so if any of you are ever in Kansas on business,
you know where to stay away from.


Google maps shows this to be in a residential area.

I wonder how the neighbors like having them there ?



That was my thought, too.

Not much that can be done. Most cities don't have the brains to
impose zoning laws on churches, misconscrewing the intent of
"separation of church and state".


How about separation of politicians and people's wallets?


Personally, though, I believe in "balance": Any time a church is
allowed on a corner, it should be mandatory that the other three
corners are occupied by a Circle-K, a gas station, and an adult book
and "toy" store with an XXX-theater :-)


Around here you have to have enough parking spaces, a retention pond
for water runoff and meet all the safety codes and zoning for a
business. You can get in trouble for holding church services in a home
for more than a few people.


And churches should be taxed like any other retail business.


Not if they are actually helping people with things like food banks
or other community outreach programs.

Sure. Just "corporate" (*) taxes on their profits.

As in "corpus" :-)


Most are strugling to pay their bills and still help anyone around
here. Unemployment is up, the food banks are nearly empty and donations
are way down. There are no mega churches around here. The largest may
have 1000 members.

And the Catholics are burdened with paying damages for all the
pedophilia ;-)

That aside, my favorite charity is St. Mary's Food Bank.

But I _never_ give to "corner bums"... the "need money for food"
types. The local TV here filmed one of those walking a block and
getting into his Mercedes :-(

But that's pretty much gone. All the freeway ramp medians are now
labeled "Property of ADOT, No Trespassing". A few arrests, and they
stopped hanging out there.


I've tossed a few a 79 cent bag of potato chips.

--
For the last time: I am not a mad scientist! I m just a very ticked
off scientist!!!

Jim Thompson wrote:

On Thu, 18 Nov 2010 17:02:03 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


Jim Thompson wrote:

On Thu, 18 Nov 2010 16:26:58 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


Jim Thompson wrote:

On Thu, 18 Nov 2010 16:06:03 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


hamilton wrote:

On 11/18/2010 9:43 AM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Too far for me to travel. They are located at: 3701 West 12th
Street, Topeka, Kansas so if any of you are ever in Kansas on business,
you know where to stay away from.


Google maps shows this to be in a residential area.

I wonder how the neighbors like having them there ?



That was my thought, too.

Not much that can be done. Most cities don't have the brains to
impose zoning laws on churches, misconscrewing the intent of
"separation of church and state".


How about separation of politicians and people's wallets?


Personally, though, I believe in "balance": Any time a church is
allowed on a corner, it should be mandatory that the other three
corners are occupied by a Circle-K, a gas station, and an adult book
and "toy" store with an XXX-theater :-)


Around here you have to have enough parking spaces, a retention pond
for water runoff and meet all the safety codes and zoning for a
business. You can get in trouble for holding church services in a home
for more than a few people.


And churches should be taxed like any other retail business.


Not if they are actually helping people with things like food banks
or other community outreach programs.

Sure. Just "corporate" (*) taxes on their profits.

As in "corpus" :-)


Most are strugling to pay their bills and still help anyone around
here. Unemployment is up, the food banks are nearly empty and donations
are way down. There are no mega churches around here. The largest may
have 1000 members.

And the Catholics are burdened with paying damages for all the
pedophilia ;-)

That aside, my favorite charity is St. Mary's Food Bank.

But I _never_ give to "corner bums"... the "need money for food"
types. The local TV here filmed one of those walking a block and
getting into his Mercedes :-(

But that's pretty much gone. All the freeway ramp medians are now
labeled "Property of ADOT, No Trespassing". A few arrests, and they
stopped hanging out there.


I've tossed a few a 79 cent bag of potato chips.

--
For the last time: I am not a mad scientist! I m just a very ticked
off scientist!!!

Michael A. Terrell:

Jim Thompson wrote:

Sure. Just "corporate" (*) taxes on their profits.

Most are strugling to pay their bills

No profit? No corporate taxes due. Easy.

flipper wrote:

On Fri, 19 Nov 2010 19:03:21 +0100, "F. Bertolazzi"
wrote:

Michael A. Terrell:

Jim Thompson wrote:

Sure. Just "corporate" (*) taxes on their profits.

Most are strugling to pay their bills

No profit? No corporate taxes due. Easy.

It's even easier than that. Church--- no filing.


Boy, are you naive! Non profits have very complex returns, to prove
they are non profit. My old computer club was read the riot act for
tossing a couple dead, five year old Commodore 64 computers, instead of
selling them for scrap.


--
For the last time: I am not a mad scientist! I m just a very ticked
off scientist!!!

On Fri, 19 Nov 2010 18:52:38 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


flipper wrote:

On Fri, 19 Nov 2010 19:03:21 +0100, "F. Bertolazzi"
wrote:

Michael A. Terrell:

Jim Thompson wrote:

Sure. Just "corporate" (*) taxes on their profits.

Most are strugling to pay their bills

No profit? No corporate taxes due. Easy.

It's even easier than that. Church--- no filing.


Boy, are you naive! Non profits have very complex returns, to prove
they are non profit. My old computer club was read the riot act for
tossing a couple dead, five year old Commodore 64 computers, instead of
selling them for scrap.

Yep. When my wife and I were co-presidents of the TPA, we had a
lawyer on the board just to make sure our 501(c)3 filings were done
correctly.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

If Nancy Pelosi gave Obama one of her balls, they'd both have two.

flipper wrote:

On Fri, 19 Nov 2010 18:52:38 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


flipper wrote:

On Fri, 19 Nov 2010 19:03:21 +0100, "F. Bertolazzi"
wrote:

Michael A. Terrell:

Jim Thompson wrote:

Sure. Just "corporate" (*) taxes on their profits.

Most are strugling to pay their bills

No profit? No corporate taxes due. Easy.

It's even easier than that. Church--- no filing.


Boy, are you naive!

No, just informed.

From the 'gov' itself http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p4220.pdf

"RELIGIOUS
.
.
Although the IRC excludes these organizations from the requirement to
file an application for exemption, many churches voluntarily file
applications for exemption."


That is the filing for tax exempt status, not the annual filing to
prove you're exempt.


Non profits have very complex returns, to prove
they are non profit. My old computer club was read the riot act for
tossing a couple dead, five year old Commodore 64 computers, instead of
selling them for scrap.

'Computer Clubs', and other 'non profits', are not a Church protected
by the first amendment "free exercise" clause.

A legitimate church acting as a church need not file or do a blessed
thing.


--
For the last time: I am not a mad scientist! I m just a very ticked
off scientist!!!

flipper:

It's even easier than that. Church--- no filing.

Yes, but I can't see why they should be treated differently than other
companies. The whole "no profit" sector smells like scam.

Or, conversely, I can't see why people and companies that produce should be
taxed at all. Taxes should be paid by consumers. The more you consume, the
more you use public infrastructure (directly or indirectly).

In Europe we have VAT, that's like sales tax, but it's much more difficult
to evade. On food, newspapers & books it's around 2%, on practically
everything else it's about 20%. Alcohol, cigarettes & gas have huge
additional levies.

That allows to let poor people pay just 2% of taxes.

But our governments get only 1/3 of their revenues from the above, 1/3 from
income taxes and 1/3 from pension funds. Pension that I'll never see, since
my money has already been spent (twice, in Italy).

Since retirement is calculated more or less like income taxes, the result
is that production is taxed twice as much as consumption.

That's tragically ridiculous.

"F. Bertolazzi" wrote:

flipper:

It's even easier than that. Church--- no filing.

Yes, but I can't see why they should be treated differently than other
companies. The whole "no profit" sector smells like scam.

Or, conversely, I can't see why people and companies that produce should be
taxed at all. Taxes should be paid by consumers. The more you consume, the
more you use public infrastructure (directly or indirectly).


Who do you thionk pays corporate taxes other than their customers?


In Europe we have VAT, that's like sales tax, but it's much more difficult
to evade. On food, newspapers & books it's around 2%, on practically
everything else it's about 20%. Alcohol, cigarettes & gas have huge
additional levies.

That allows to let poor people pay just 2% of taxes.


No tax on food in supermarkets, but there is sales tax at restaurants
in the US.


But our governments get only 1/3 of their revenues from the above, 1/3 from
income taxes and 1/3 from pension funds. Pension that I'll never see, since
my money has already been spent (twice, in Italy).

Since retirement is calculated more or less like income taxes, the result
is that production is taxed twice as much as consumption.

That's tragically ridiculous.


--
For the last time: I am not a mad scientist! I m just a very ticked
off scientist!!!

Michael A. Terrell:

Who do you thionk pays corporate taxes other than their customers?

The shareholders.

Anyway, why bother to create and maintain two different "taps" instead of
one? Simple. Politicians don't want us to know how much money they are
stealing us.

In Italy we even have part of the income taxes on wages "paid by the
employer", and part by the employee. Just for not letting the employee know
how much he really pays.

That allows to let poor people pay just 2% of taxes.

No tax on food in supermarkets, but there is sales tax at restaurants
in the US.

Exactly as here, after all. 2% is no big deal, while served food has the
"usual" 20% VAT.

On Sat, 20 Nov 2010 13:57:20 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


"F. Bertolazzi" wrote:

flipper:

It's even easier than that. Church--- no filing.

Yes, but I can't see why they should be treated differently than other
companies. The whole "no profit" sector smells like scam.

Or, conversely, I can't see why people and companies that produce should be
taxed at all. Taxes should be paid by consumers. The more you consume, the
more you use public infrastructure (directly or indirectly).


Who do you thionk pays corporate taxes other than their customers?

Depends on whether you buy American stuff, or Chinese stuff. The
Chinese companies don't pay US corporate taxes. Or FICA, unemployment
insurance, liability insurance, workman's comp, property tax, or
business license fees. The American companies do it for them.

A sales tax would hit US and Chinese products equally.

John

"F. Bertolazzi" wrote:

Michael A. Terrell:

Who do you thionk pays corporate taxes other than their customers?

The shareholders.



How do you figure that? If the customers don;t buy their products,
there is no profit to tax. No profit means no dividends for the
stockholders.


Anyway, why bother to create and maintain two different "taps" instead of
one? Simple. Politicians don't want us to know how much money they are
stealing us.


And? You think that's unique?


In Italy we even have part of the income taxes on wages "paid by the
employer", and part by the employee. Just for not letting the employee know
how much he really pays.


And? You think that's unique?


That allows to let poor people pay just 2% of taxes.

No tax on food in supermarkets, but there is sales tax at restaurants
in the US.

Exactly as here, after all. 2% is no big deal, while served food has the
"usual" 20% VAT.


It has whatever the state and county sales tax is. Here it is 6%, so
how much is your government ripping YOU off?


--
For the last time: I am not a mad scientist! I m just a very ticked
off scientist!!!

John Larkin wrote:

On Sat, 20 Nov 2010 13:57:20 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


"F. Bertolazzi" wrote:

flipper:

It's even easier than that. Church--- no filing.

Yes, but I can't see why they should be treated differently than other
companies. The whole "no profit" sector smells like scam.

Or, conversely, I can't see why people and companies that produce should be
taxed at all. Taxes should be paid by consumers. The more you consume, the
more you use public infrastructure (directly or indirectly).


Who do you thionk pays corporate taxes other than their customers?

Depends on whether you buy American stuff, or Chinese stuff. The
Chinese companies don't pay US corporate taxes. Or FICA, unemployment
insurance, liability insurance, workman's comp, property tax, or
business license fees. The American companies do it for them.

A sales tax would hit US and Chinese products equally.

How many people buy directly from China? They pay that sales tax
anyway, whether to a US manufacturer or importer.

--
For the last time: I am not a mad scientist! I m just a very ticked
off scientist!!!

John Larkin wrote:
On Sat, 20 Nov 2010 13:57:20 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
"F. Bertolazzi" wrote:
flipper:

It's even easier than that. Church--- no filing.

Yes, but I can't see why they should be treated differently than other
companies. The whole "no profit" sector smells like scam.

Or, conversely, I can't see why people and companies that produce should
be taxed at all. Taxes should be paid by consumers. The more you
consume, the more you use public infrastructure (directly or
indirectly).

Who do you thionk pays corporate taxes other than their customers?

Depends on whether you buy American stuff, or Chinese stuff. The
Chinese companies don't pay US corporate taxes. Or FICA, unemployment
insurance, liability insurance, workman's comp, property tax, or
business license fees. The American companies do it for them.

A sales tax would hit US and Chinese products equally.


We should all write to our senators and congresscritters:
http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer

Cheers!
Rich

Michael A. Terrell:

"F. Bertolazzi" wrote:

Michael A. Terrell:

Who do you thionk pays corporate taxes other than their customers?

The shareholders.

How do you figure that? If the customers don;t buy their products,
there is no profit to tax. No profit means no dividends for the
stockholders.

So what? We were talking about who pays the income taxes of the producers.
If there were non income taxes the gross profit would be the same as the
net one.

Anyway, why bother to create and maintain two different "taps" instead of
one? Simple. Politicians don't want us to know how much money they are
stealing us.

And? You think that's unique?

By no means. I was only talking about something I know.

In Italy we even have part of the income taxes on wages "paid by the
employer", and part by the employee. Just for not letting the employee know
how much he really pays.

And? You think that's unique?

By no means. I was only talking about something I know.

That allows to let poor people pay just 2% of taxes.

No tax on food in supermarkets, but there is sales tax at restaurants
in the US.

Exactly as here, after all. 2% is no big deal, while served food has the
"usual" 20% VAT.

It has whatever the state and county sales tax is. Here it is 6%, so
how much is your government ripping YOU off?

If I remember well, yor government moves about 40% of the GDP, so that's
what they're stealing you. Here is more like 66%.

Get rid of the black guy before you end up like us.

John Larkin:

Depends on whether you buy American stuff, or Chinese stuff. The
Chinese companies don't pay US corporate taxes. Or FICA, unemployment
insurance, liability insurance, workman's comp, property tax, or
business license fees. The American companies do it for them.

A sales tax would hit US and Chinese products equally.

Great point.

Michael A. Terrell:

How many people buy directly from China? They pay that sales tax
anyway, whether to a US manufacturer or importer.

Sure, but sales taxes should be thre times bigger than what they are.

Or, much better, they should stay as they are and the government
expenditure slashed by two thirds.

F. Bertolazzi wrote:
Michael A. Terrell:


"F. Bertolazzi" wrote:

Michael A. Terrell:


Who do you thionk pays corporate taxes other than their customers?

The shareholders.

How do you figure that? If the customers don;t buy their products,
there is no profit to tax. No profit means no dividends for the
stockholders.


So what? We were talking about who pays the income taxes of the producers.
If there were non income taxes the gross profit would be the same as the
net one.


Anyway, why bother to create and maintain two different "taps" instead of
one? Simple. Politicians don't want us to know how much money they are
stealing us.

And? You think that's unique?


By no means. I was only talking about something I know.


In Italy we even have part of the income taxes on wages "paid by the
employer", and part by the employee. Just for not letting the employee know
how much he really pays.

And? You think that's unique?


By no means. I was only talking about something I know.


That allows to let poor people pay just 2% of taxes.

No tax on food in supermarkets, but there is sales tax at restaurants
in the US.

Exactly as here, after all. 2% is no big deal, while served food has the
"usual" 20% VAT.

It has whatever the state and county sales tax is. Here it is 6%, so
how much is your government ripping YOU off?


If I remember well, yor government moves about 40% of the GDP, so that's
what they're stealing you. Here is more like 66%.

Get rid of the black guy before you end up like us.
AH-MEN

"F. Bertolazzi" wrote:

Michael A. Terrell:

"F. Bertolazzi" wrote:

Michael A. Terrell:

Who do you thionk pays corporate taxes other than their customers?

The shareholders.

How do you figure that? If the customers don;t buy their products,
there is no profit to tax. No profit means no dividends for the
stockholders.

So what? We were talking about who pays the income taxes of the producers.
If there were non income taxes the gross profit would be the same as the
net one.

Anyway, why bother to create and maintain two different "taps" instead of
one? Simple. Politicians don't want us to know how much money they are
stealing us.

And? You think that's unique?

By no means. I was only talking about something I know.

In Italy we even have part of the income taxes on wages "paid by the
employer", and part by the employee. Just for not letting the employee know
how much he really pays.

And? You think that's unique?

By no means. I was only talking about something I know.

That allows to let poor people pay just 2% of taxes.

No tax on food in supermarkets, but there is sales tax at restaurants
in the US.

Exactly as here, after all. 2% is no big deal, while served food has the
"usual" 20% VAT.

It has whatever the state and county sales tax is. Here it is 6%, so
how much is your government ripping YOU off?

If I remember well, yor government moves about 40% of the GDP, so that's
what they're stealing you. Here is more like 66%.

Get rid of the black guy before you end up like us.


He's mixed race, and I didn't vote for him.


--
For the last time: I am not a mad scientist! I m just a very ticked
off scientist!!!

flipper:

You missed the point. He's talking about exchanging a federal sales
tax for the current federal corporate tax. That's a *new* sales tax on
top of the existing.

Not necessarily. It could be the very same tax, shared among the local and
the federal subject.

That is, if they really made the change tax neutral (want to place
bets?).

Not me. :-(

Michael A. Terrell:

He's mixed race, and I didn't vote for him.

Sorry, I did not mean to insult your President.

And you did a pretty good job, during the mid terms.

On Sun, 21 Nov 2010 01:59:28 +0100, "F. Bertolazzi"
wrote:

Michael A. Terrell:

He's mixed race, and I didn't vote for him.

Sorry, I did not mean to insult your President.

[snip]

Not to worry. Obama is self-insulting.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

If Nancy Pelosi gave Obama one of her balls, they'd both have two.

flipper:

On Sat, 20 Nov 2010 23:32:38 +0100, "F. Bertolazzi"
wrote:

snip


If I remember well, yor government moves about 40% of the GDP, so that's
what they're stealing you. Here is more like 66%.

Get rid of the black guy before you end up like us.

Gee whiz, he tells us everybody over there just loves him to death.

Our ex-communist party, badly defeated in the last three elections, cheered
a lot for his election. Poor kids.
In the next ones, hopefully, they will be erased.

Course, he also says you guys love being taxed so we need to get some
more of that happiness going on over here too.

Right. Health care is a wonderful source of waste.

Moreover, if doctors are not allowed to report illegal aliens, as here, you
will end up hosting, instead of people that wants to work and pay as few
taxes as they can (also to afford medical coverage), people that will not
pay taxes anyway (because they can't, since their business sector is
classified as criminal) and get medical assistance anyway.

flipper wrote:

On Sat, 20 Nov 2010 23:32:38 +0100, "F. Bertolazzi"
wrote:

snip

If I remember well, yor government moves about 40% of the GDP, so that's
what they're stealing you. Here is more like 66%.

Get rid of the black guy before you end up like us.


Gee whiz, he tells us everybody over there just loves him to death.

Course, he also says you guys love being taxed so we need to get some
more of that happiness going on over here too.

I think its all the drugs they have them on over there, with their
socialist programs that's eluding
you. It's keeps them submissive. Good boy, that's a good communist now!


Jamie.

On Sat, 20 Nov 2010 18:01:42 -0700, Jim Thompson wrote:

On Sun, 21 Nov 2010 01:59:28 +0100, "F. Bertolazzi"
wrote:

Michael A. Terrell:

He's mixed race, and I didn't vote for him.

Sorry, I did not mean to insult your President.

[snip]

Not to worry. Obama is self-insulting.

...Jim Thompson

Let's just hope he's self-defeating!

F. Bertolazzi wrote:

flipper:


On Sat, 20 Nov 2010 23:32:38 +0100, "F. Bertolazzi"
wrote:

snip

If I remember well, yor government moves about 40% of the GDP, so that's
what they're stealing you. Here is more like 66%.

Get rid of the black guy before you end up like us.

Gee whiz, he tells us everybody over there just loves him to death.


Our ex-communist party, badly defeated in the last three elections, cheered
a lot for his election. Poor kids.
In the next ones, hopefully, they will be erased.


Course, he also says you guys love being taxed so we need to get some
more of that happiness going on over here too.


Right. Health care is a wonderful source of waste.

Moreover, if doctors are not allowed to report illegal aliens, as here, you
will end up hosting, instead of people that wants to work and pay as few
taxes as they can (also to afford medical coverage), people that will not
pay taxes anyway (because they can't, since their business sector is
classified as criminal) and get medical assistance anyway.
That's correct, isn't it a wonderful broken down system we have and more
to come, of course.

If you don't mind, we'd like to send some of our free loaders over to
you!, and if you need an extra president, we can send one of those, too!

Jamie

Michael A. Terrell wrote:
"F. Bertolazzi" wrote:


Get rid of the black guy before you end up like us.

He's mixed race, and I didn't vote for him.

The color of his skin is irrelevant - he's a ****ing Communist.

Thanks,
Rich

"F. Bertolazzi" wrote:

Michael A. Terrell:

He's mixed race, and I didn't vote for him.

Sorry, I did not mean to insult your President.


Not my president. I've never owned one, and never want to.


And you did a pretty good job, during the mid terms.


A drop in the bucket.


--
For the last time: I am not a mad scientist! I m just a very ticked
off scientist!!!

flipper:

Would you please immigrate to help with the next election?

Almost 20 years ago I lived in Va 4 years with a B1/B2 visa as a young
liberal employed by a nasty multinational company.

I was scandalized by the lack of free health care, abundance of firearms,
and racism. Just before applying for the green card I decided to came back
home.

Once back, seeing how things work there and don't work here, I understood.

flipper:

On Sat, 20 Nov 2010 20:51:54 +0100, "F. Bertolazzi"
wrote:

Michael A. Terrell:

Who do you thionk pays corporate taxes other than their customers?

The shareholders.

I see. Your logic is the tax gets raked out of the company first so
there's less left to distribute.

That might be the case if it was just one company being taxed

Ok, ok, I was just trying to weasle out the corner he put me in. ;-)

The problem started before Roosevelt but he's the one who kicked the
door in. Then, in the 60's, they knocked it right off the hinges and
now Pres. Obama, Pelosi, Reed, et al, are taking a wrecking ball to
the rest.

Thanks for your accurate and clear explaination.
I will read your notes to a friend of my parents, professor (and lawyer) of
fiscal law that wrote some volumes on our fiscal history and ask him to put
down a similar timeline for what happened here, if you like.

I'm pretty sure that the steps were different, but the final result is the
same, only much worse.

The point is that, in the end, governments do what the people want them to.
People want as little resposibility as possible. No, as impossible.

Public healthcare is the final step in deresponsabilization: you can drive
wrecklessly, if you get hurt someone else will pick up the tab, you can
smoke, drink and overeat, chemotherapy, liver transplant and coronary
bypass will be paid by someone else.

flipper:


I think the VAT structure is overly cumbersome with 80% of the
paperwork going to no end because it's all 'value added' tax then
rebate then tax then rebate then... before getting to the consumer.

It's not as bad as it sounds. At the end of the month you sum up all the
VAT you added on your invoices, subtract all the VAT that was on your
supplier's invoices and pay the difference. Any accounting software will do
it automatically.

It is true that, this way, you have the responsibility of doing something
that should be a government duty, but, this way, it's very difficult and
risky to evade sales taxes. In the US, instead, it was pretty easy. That's
why in Europe mail catalogues never had luck.

In Italy, if you're not a corporation, your customer will detract 20% of
the invoice and pay it to the state as income tax on your behalf.

Even easier: your invoice is $100, you add $20 VAT, detract $20 income tax
and get your $100. Easy, but you have already paid VAT on your bills.

It can get really nasty: since "abitual exporters" are not subject to VAT
(that's another huge scam), if you happen to have mostly "abitual
exporters" customers, as me, you end up by getting only $80 for your $100
invoice (having already paid VAT on your bills).

So you have to ask for a refund. But you can't, since asking for a refund,
here, is sanctioned by an harrassing visit of our IRS agents. If you are
brave enough, you can do it, but you will get your money back not before
FIVE years.

The 'poor' here don't generally pay any tax at all on those things,
nor income tax. They get hit for the normal sales tax on so called
'non essentials', meaning everything else.

As, basically, here.

Well, the money has to come from somewhere.

Right. Until I will pay a public employee to state that I'm disabled, so
I'll get $600 a month and stop worrying.

Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Here is more justice:

Westboro Baptist Church Gets Tires Slashed, Locals Refuse To Perform
Repairs

Shortly after protesting the funeral of Army Sgt. Jason James McCluskey
in Oklahoma, members of the Westboro Baptist Church headed back to their
minivan, only to discover that its front and rear passenger-side tires
had been slashed. To make matters worse, when they drove into town they
were unable to find anyone who would repair it.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/mjs538/westboro-church-gets-tires-slashed-locals-refuse


Those guys are just pharisaical morons. There's nothing Christian about
their brand of nonsense--and I wouldn't fix their tires either.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal
ElectroOptical Innovations
55 Orchard Rd
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510
845-480-2058

email: hobbs (atsign) electrooptical (period) net
http://electrooptical.net

Phil Hobbs wrote:

Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Here is more justice:

Westboro Baptist Church Gets Tires Slashed, Locals Refuse To Perform
Repairs

Shortly after protesting the funeral of Army Sgt. Jason James McCluskey
in Oklahoma, members of the Westboro Baptist Church headed back to their
minivan, only to discover that its front and rear passenger-side tires
had been slashed. To make matters worse, when they drove into town they
were unable to find anyone who would repair it.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/mjs538/westboro-church-gets-tires-slashed-locals-refuse


Those guys are just pharisaical morons. There's nothing Christian about
their brand of nonsense--and I wouldn't fix their tires either.



Not even with a mix of Oxygen & Acetylene? ;-)


--
For the last time: I am not a mad scientist, I'm just a very ticked off
scientist!!!

Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Phil Hobbs wrote:

Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Here is more justice:

Westboro Baptist Church Gets Tires Slashed, Locals Refuse To Perform
Repairs

Shortly after protesting the funeral of Army Sgt. Jason James McCluskey
in Oklahoma, members of the Westboro Baptist Church headed back to their
minivan, only to discover that its front and rear passenger-side tires
had been slashed. To make matters worse, when they drove into town they
were unable to find anyone who would repair it.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/mjs538/westboro-church-gets-tires-slashed-locals-refuse


Those guys are just pharisaical morons. There's nothing Christian about
their brand of nonsense--and I wouldn't fix their tires either.



Not even with a mix of Oxygen& Acetylene? ;-)

Nah, they're not my worry, fortunately. I understand you can fix
anthills that way though--very entertaining. (Was it here that I heard
that story a few months ago?)

Cheers

Phil Hobbs


--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal
ElectroOptical Innovations
55 Orchard Rd
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510
845-480-2058

email: hobbs (atsign) electrooptical (period) net
http://electrooptical.net

Phil Hobbs wrote:

Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Phil Hobbs wrote:

Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Here is more justice:

Westboro Baptist Church Gets Tires Slashed, Locals Refuse To Perform
Repairs

Shortly after protesting the funeral of Army Sgt. Jason James McCluskey
in Oklahoma, members of the Westboro Baptist Church headed back to their
minivan, only to discover that its front and rear passenger-side tires
had been slashed. To make matters worse, when they drove into town they
were unable to find anyone who would repair it.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/mjs538/westboro-church-gets-tires-slashed-locals-refuse


Those guys are just pharisaical morons. There's nothing Christian about
their brand of nonsense--and I wouldn't fix their tires either.



Not even with a mix of Oxygen& Acetylene? ;-)

Nah, they're not my worry, fortunately. I understand you can fix
anthills that way though--very entertaining. (Was it here that I heard
that story a few months ago?)


Gopher tunnels, too.

--
For the last time: I am not a mad scientist, I'm just a very ticked off
scientist!!!

flipper:

I find that a rather fascinating story

Yes, but just because the dumbass of the story it's me. ;-)

and it might explain why people
over there who only 'hear' about the US have a different view.

Definitely. They have no idea whatsoever. Tourists full of ****. As I were.


Excuse me if I just glimpsed at your other answer.
Answer it tomorrow. Too late, going bed. Doh.

flipper:

On Sun, 21 Nov 2010 15:29:41 +0100, "F. Bertolazzi"
wrote:

Thanks for your accurate and clear explaination.
I will read your notes to a friend of my parents, professor (and lawyer) of
fiscal law that wrote some volumes on our fiscal history and ask him to put
down a similar timeline for what happened here, if you like.

Yes, I would.

Ok. I will. I don't kow why, this is a busy period of the year for
ex-politicians (so honest that he did not get nominated again to run for
election).

Europe had the 'divine right of
kings' tradition whereas many of the early settlers here came
specifically to get away from persecution under that system.

This is particularly evident in the relationship with public servants.
There they are the taxpayer's eployees, here they are the link betweek the
King and the subject. This is the most precious difference. Keep it.
Maybe it's not always that way, I don't know, but the only public employee
that mistreated me was from the INS. Well, given the scope of the agency
she may be excused.

Point being, the Jeffersonian philosophy of government explicitly
rejects 'top down rule' (instead, legitimate political power
originates with the people) whereas it seems to me that Europe
basically sort of 'readjusted' the top to better accommodate the
bottom but retained an acceptance of government 'superiority', so to
speak.

See above.

That's probably not the right words and overly simplistic but maybe
there's a nugget in there somewhere.

Nugget? Mother lode.

The progressive-socialist-left over here has been doing it's best to
erase Jeffersonian philosophy from the political discourse as well as
the educational system.

HA! One point in which Europe leads America! :-(

The point is that, in the end, governments do what the people want them to.
People want as little resposibility as possible. No, as impossible.

That's a common saying over here too but I have mixed feelings. In
theory people *do* 'get what they want' but they can also be fooled,
as one complication.

Well, in the short term maybe. But, in the long one, they prevail.
I undrstand your optimism, but... look around you. Half of the people is
below average, but they don't know it. By the way, have you ever read this?
http://www.scirp.org/Journal/PaperDo...3958 4049.pdf

One could argue that's still the people's fault, for letting them get
away with it, but we don't apply that same standard to fraud in the
public sector.

The socialistoids here, after having done, according tho The Economist (the
real one, directed by Bill Emmot, not the current asshole) the most
brilliant financial operation in the history of finance (but the article
ends by saying that, if they had been the managers of a regular company,
they would have been thrown to jail for false account), protested a lot
because Berlusconi (have you ever heard of him?) deleted a law about
private company financial reports.

Two weight, two measures. That, together with
http://media.photobucket.com/image/s...lism.gif?o=114
are the basis of Modern Socialism.

Public healthcare

You have an interesting way of viewing it. I view it more as the one
of the steps in creating dependency.

I believe that you make politicians smarter and meaner than they are.
They're just regular people, a little more thirsty for power, but basically
limited by the four years horizon, during which they have to abuse their
power, but in a way that will allow them to be re-elect.

Elected or nominated in some commission. Well, maybe you're right, the
broader the field of intervention of the government, the more commissions.

John Larkin:

Depends on whether you buy American stuff, or Chinese stuff. The
Chinese companies don't pay US corporate taxes. Or FICA

We do pay for FICA ("pussy").

flipper:

Your theory is the success of mail order in the US is due to 'saving
tax'? I don't think so because mail order was already a success long
before the first State dreamed up a sales tax.

So why the very same companies failed here despite huge investments and 20
years of efforts?

Well, it's a means to encourage exports because that brings cash flow
into the country.

It can be easily done by allowing them to ask for a refund.

The only good thing done by our government in the last 10 years is a form
where you state how much you owe for VAT, Social Security, personal income,
injury fund, helthcare. You sum up all the dues and pay the total.

If any of the items is negative... well, you sum it anyway, so you can have
an "instant refund". It' several years that I don't pay anything with that
form, since they still owe me. But, at least, I don't have to pay the sums
with a plus in front and wait for 5 yrs the reimbursement of what I
overpaid.

So the "abitual exporters" could easily recoup the VAT that way, balancing
the income taxes of their employees. But no, too simple and transparent.

Besides, taxes are allegedly for benefits to the people (I.E. in
country) paying them so why should 'them foreigners' pay it?

By the way, in my case, the "abitual exporters" do not export anything.
It's just that ships are, fiscally, a foreign state (while, as you know,
they are part of our territory, wherever they are) and VAT does not apply
to them.

if you happen to have mostly "abitual
exporters"

Interesting term. Why are they called "habitual" exporters as opposed
to simply exporters? What is the 'emotional appeal' supposed to be?

LOL. I believe (and am pretty sure) if they make most of their income by
expoerting stuff.

Well, that's the problem with handing it over 'up front' and then
trying to get it back later and I say that's the same 'convenience of
the government' philosophy that's backwards, because I'm a
Jeffersonian. Government exists for the 'convenience' of the people
and not the other way around.

To be more precise, governments should exist just for managing the
"monopoly of violence". Make the rules (Parliament), Apply the rules
(Judiciary) and enforce them (Government proper, with its Police and Army).

All the rest should be outside its jurisdiction. Your Agencies work pretty
well, but they are a strange mix. And they are, if I'm not mistaken, non
elected.

Here, out of three "arms" of Statem, we do elect only Parliament, which
elects th Government. Weird, but not as weird as the fact that judges, once
they pass (a tough) exam, are tere for live, whatever they do.
Tell me, do judge's election brings problems (corruption, lobbying) with
it?