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John Fields wrote: ANSI reference designators.pdf

Only for antiquated Americans of course.

Do please especially explain the relevance of the letter Q to indicate a
transistor or U for an IC.

Graham
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Eeyore wrote:
John Fields wrote: ANSI reference designators.pdf

Only for antiquated Americans of course.

Do please especially explain the relevance of the letter Q to indicate a
transistor or U for an IC.

Graham


Chronological snobbery. I thought it was Brits who liked to keep old
names for things, such as your treasury department, which is still named
after the gingham tablecloth that they used to count the money on,
around a thousand years ago. (*)

(Of course more recently it could have been named after Yasir Arafat's
burnoose.)

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

(*) Exchequer, for non-Commonwealth types.
--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal
ElectroOptical Innovations
55 Orchard Rd
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510
845-480-2058
hobbs at electrooptical dot net
http://electrooptical.net
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On Sat, 04 Sep 2010 07:56:51 +0100, Eeyore
m wrote:

John Fields wrote: ANSI reference designators.pdf

Only for antiquated Americans of course.


---
Us???

Hell, we've been the United States of America for over 200 years, and
you poor buggers _still_ don't even have a constitution.
---

Do please especially explain the relevance of the letter Q to indicate a
transistor or U for an IC.


---
With pleasure. :-)

The reference designator assigned to a transistor: "Q", refers to
(Q)uantum.

From:

http://www.pbs.org/transistor/science/info/quantum.html


"Unlike water flowing along in one direction through a hose, electrons
traveling along as electrical current can sometimes follow weird
paths, especially if they're moving near the surface of a material.
Moreover, electrons acting like a wave can sometimes burrow right
through a barrier. Understanding this odd behavior of electrons was
necessary as scientists tried to control how current flowed through
the first transistors."

and

"Nevertheless, most physicists today accept the laws of quantum
mechanics as an accurate description of the subatomic world. And
certainly it was a thorough understanding of these new laws which
helped Bardeen, Brattain, and Shockley invent the transistor."


To answer your second question, "U" is the reference designator for an
inseparable assembly which, of course, perfectly describes a
monolithic integrated circuit.

Is there anything else you'd like to know?

---
JF
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Phil Hobbs wrote:
Eeyore wrote:
John Fields wrote: ANSI reference designators.pdf

Only for antiquated Americans of course.

Do please especially explain the relevance of the letter Q to indicate
a transistor or U for an IC.

Graham


Chronological snobbery. I thought it was Brits who liked to keep old
names for things, such as your treasury department, which is still named
after the gingham tablecloth that they used to count the money on,
around a thousand years ago. (*)


The name Treasury ( which one could critice itself for being
'old-fashioned' despite common US usage ) has no connection with
tablecloths. You ought to do your research before posting.

http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/about_history.htm

" The origin of the name “exchequer” derives from the chequered table
(based on the abacus) which was used from about 1110 for calculating
expenditure and receipts. "

British English btw is renowned for accepting many forms of linguistic
influence inluding taking entire foreign phrases into common use. In
this respect it is probably the most dynamic language in the world.

Now explain why U = integrated circuit and Q = transistor. It defies any
form of common sense.

Sensible usage is 'IC' and 'TR'.

Graham


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On Sun, 05 Sep 2010 07:11:20 +0100, Eeyore m wrote:

Phil Hobbs wrote:
Eeyore wrote:
John Fields wrote: ANSI reference designators.pdf

Only for antiquated Americans of course.

Do please especially explain the relevance of the letter Q to indicate
a transistor or U for an IC.

Graham


Chronological snobbery. I thought it was Brits who liked to keep old
names for things, such as your treasury department, which is still named
after the gingham tablecloth that they used to count the money on,
around a thousand years ago. (*)


The name Treasury ( which one could critice itself for being
'old-fashioned' despite common US usage ) has no connection with
tablecloths. You ought to do your research before posting.

http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/about_history.htm

" The origin of the name €œexchequer€ derives from the chequered table
(based on the abacus) which was used from about 1110 for calculating
expenditure and receipts. "

British English btw is renowned for accepting many forms of linguistic
influence inluding taking entire foreign phrases into common use. In
this respect it is probably the most dynamic language in the world.

Now explain why U = integrated circuit and Q = transistor. It defies any
form of common sense.

Sensible usage is 'IC' and 'TR'.


So the transformer is? I and C already taken for other uses, so remaining
letters get a showing too. Too hard? Hardly matters.

Grant.
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On Sun, 05 Sep 2010 07:11:20 +0100, Eeyore
m wrote:


Now explain why U = integrated circuit and Q = transistor. It defies any
form of common sense.


---
If, by "common sense", you're referring to that severely limited set
of things you think you understand, then you really _are_ in a pickle!

He



---
JF
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On Sun, 05 Sep 2010 07:11:20 +0100, Eeyore
m wrote:

Phil Hobbs wrote:
Eeyore wrote:
John Fields wrote: ANSI reference designators.pdf

Only for antiquated Americans of course.

Do please especially explain the relevance of the letter Q to indicate
a transistor or U for an IC.

Graham


Chronological snobbery. I thought it was Brits who liked to keep old
names for things, such as your treasury department, which is still named
after the gingham tablecloth that they used to count the money on,
around a thousand years ago. (*)


The name Treasury ( which one could critice itself for being
'old-fashioned' despite common US usage ) has no connection with
tablecloths. You ought to do your research before posting.

http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/about_history.htm

" The origin of the name “exchequer” derives from the chequered table
(based on the abacus) which was used from about 1110 for calculating
expenditure and receipts. "

British English btw is renowned for accepting many forms of linguistic
influence inluding taking entire foreign phrases into common use. In
this respect it is probably the most dynamic language in the world.

Now explain why U = integrated circuit and Q = transistor. It defies any
form of common sense.

Sensible usage is 'IC' and 'TR'.


Not sensible. Amateur.

John

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On Sat, 04 Sep 2010 07:56:51 +0100, Eeyore
m wrote:

John Fields wrote: ANSI reference designators.pdf

Only for antiquated Americans of course.

Do please especially explain the relevance of the letter Q to indicate a
transistor or U for an IC.


We invented them, we named them. You can have credit for "V".

John

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On Sun, 05 Sep 2010 08:57:05 -0700, Fred Abse
wrote:

On Sun, 05 Sep 2010 07:11:20 +0100, Eeyore wrote:

Phil Hobbs wrote:
Eeyore wrote:
John Fields wrote: ANSI reference designators.pdf

Only for antiquated Americans of course.

Do please especially explain the relevance of the letter Q to indicate
a transistor or U for an IC.

Graham

Chronological snobbery. I thought it was Brits who liked to keep old
names for things, such as your treasury department, which is still named
after the gingham tablecloth that they used to count the money on,
around a thousand years ago. (*)


The name Treasury ( which one could critice itself for being
'old-fashioned' despite common US usage ) has no connection with
tablecloths. You ought to do your research before posting.


You ought to read Phil's posting again. The word he was commenting on was
"exchequer".


http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/about_history.htm

" The origin of the name "exchequer" derives from the chequered
table (based on the abacus) which was used from about 1110 for
calculating expenditure and receipts. "



Ah! You woke up ;-)



British English btw is renowned for accepting many forms of linguistic
influence inluding taking entire foreign phrases into common use. In
this respect it is probably the most dynamic language in the world.


In exactly the same way that American English, Australian English, Indian
English, Caribbean English, Canadian English, African English, Irish
English, do.


Most of the non-English countries of the world are even more willing
to accept "foreign" phrases, which they do by learning the entire
English language.





I think that Scottish English qualifies as a separate language, too.


Now explain why U = integrated circuit and Q = transistor. It defies any
form of common sense.

Sensible usage is 'IC' and 'TR'.


Who cares what the reasons were? It's a standard. If you don't need to
observe it, don't.

I think that regulars in this group are more than familiar with your
anti-American views. You are entitled to hold them. However, your
repeated pettifogging over differences in language and practices became
boring several years ago. We are different nations, with different
languages and customs. Get over it.


Americans invented electronics, invented modern electronics, invented
the vacuum triode, the opamp, the transistor, the IC, semiconductor
RAM, uPs, LEDs, lasers, programmable logic, all sorts of stuff. We
picked the reference designators, because we needed them first.

John



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On Sun, 05 Sep 2010 08:57:03 -0700, Fred Abse
wrote:

On Sat, 04 Sep 2010 07:56:51 +0100, Eeyore wrote:

Do please especially explain the relevance of the letter Q to indicate a
transistor or U for an IC.


No sillier than "L" for inductance, or "Z" for impedance, or "Y" for
admittance, or "B" for susceptance, or "G" for conductance.



I've actually seen schematics that used CHO for inductor, RLY for
relay, LED for LED, POT or RV for a variable resistor, BR for a
rectifier, CON for a connector. Audio, of course. Schematics that use
such designators are invariably amateur crap circuits in their own
right. They generally use the dreadful "4K7" thing too.

John


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Fred Abse wrote:

On Sat, 04 Sep 2010 07:56:51 +0100, Eeyore wrote:

Do please especially explain the relevance of the letter Q to indicate a
transistor or U for an IC.


No sillier than "L" for inductance, or "Z" for impedance, or "Y" for
admittance, or "B" for susceptance, or "G" for conductance.



Or 'Eeyore' for a supposedly grown man.


--
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enough left over to pay them.
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In message , John Larkin
writes
On Sun, 05 Sep 2010 07:11:20 +0100, Eeyore
wrote:

Phil Hobbs wrote:
Eeyore wrote:
John Fields wrote: ANSI reference designators.pdf

Only for antiquated Americans of course.

Do please especially explain the relevance of the letter Q to indicate
a transistor or U for an IC.

Graham

Chronological snobbery. I thought it was Brits who liked to keep old
names for things, such as your treasury department, which is still named
after the gingham tablecloth that they used to count the money on,
around a thousand years ago. (*)


The name Treasury ( which one could critice itself for being
'old-fashioned' despite common US usage ) has no connection with
tablecloths. You ought to do your research before posting.

http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/about_history.htm

" The origin of the name €œexchequer€ derives from the chequered table
(based on the abacus) which was used from about 1110 for calculating
expenditure and receipts. "

British English btw is renowned for accepting many forms of linguistic
influence inluding taking entire foreign phrases into common use. In
this respect it is probably the most dynamic language in the world.

Now explain why U = integrated circuit and Q = transistor. It defies any
form of common sense.

Sensible usage is 'IC' and 'TR'.


To save me having to dig one out, could someone please remind me what's
a 'tube' in American circuits? [I seem to be having a very 'senior
moment' at the moment!] In British circuits, it is, of course, 'V' for
'valve'.
--
Ian
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On Sun, 5 Sep 2010 20:43:30 +0100, Ian Jackson
wrote:

In message , John Larkin
writes
On Sun, 05 Sep 2010 07:11:20 +0100, Eeyore
m wrote:

Phil Hobbs wrote:
Eeyore wrote:
John Fields wrote: ANSI reference designators.pdf

Only for antiquated Americans of course.

Do please especially explain the relevance of the letter Q to indicate
a transistor or U for an IC.

Graham

Chronological snobbery. I thought it was Brits who liked to keep old
names for things, such as your treasury department, which is still named
after the gingham tablecloth that they used to count the money on,
around a thousand years ago. (*)

The name Treasury ( which one could critice itself for being
'old-fashioned' despite common US usage ) has no connection with
tablecloths. You ought to do your research before posting.

http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/about_history.htm

" The origin of the name “exchequer” derives from the chequered table
(based on the abacus) which was used from about 1110 for calculating
expenditure and receipts. "

British English btw is renowned for accepting many forms of linguistic
influence inluding taking entire foreign phrases into common use. In
this respect it is probably the most dynamic language in the world.

Now explain why U = integrated circuit and Q = transistor. It defies any
form of common sense.

Sensible usage is 'IC' and 'TR'.


To save me having to dig one out, could someone please remind me what's
a 'tube' in American circuits? [I seem to be having a very 'senior
moment' at the moment!] In British circuits, it is, of course, 'V' for
'valve'.


---
On American schematics it's "V" for any kind of (V)acuum tube.

---
JF
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On Sun, 05 Sep 2010 08:57:03 -0700, Fred Abse
wrote:

On Sat, 04 Sep 2010 07:56:51 +0100, Eeyore wrote:

Do please especially explain the relevance of the letter Q to indicate a
transistor or U for an IC.


No sillier than "L" for inductance, or "Z" for impedance, or "Y" for
admittance, or "B" for susceptance, or "G" for conductance.



I've actually seen schematics that used CHO for inductor, RLY for
relay, LED for LED, POT or RV for a variable resistor, BR for a
rectifier, CON for a connector. Audio, of course. Schematics that use
such designators are invariably amateur crap circuits in their own
right. They generally use the dreadful "4K7" thing too.

John




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John Larkin wrote:

On Sat, 04 Sep 2010 07:56:51 +0100, Eeyore
m wrote:

John Fields wrote: ANSI reference designators.pdf

Only for antiquated Americans of course.

Do please especially explain the relevance of the letter Q to indicate a
transistor or U for an IC.


We invented them, we named them. You can have credit for "V".



Their radios were build by plumbers.


--
Politicians should only get paid if the budget is balanced, and there is
enough left over to pay them.
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Fred Abse wrote:
On Sat, 04 Sep 2010 07:56:51 +0100, Eeyore wrote:

Do please especially explain the relevance of the letter Q to indicate a
transistor or U for an IC.


No sillier than "L" for inductance, or "Z" for impedance, or "Y" for
admittance, or "B" for susceptance, or "G" for conductance.


What kind of equations do you use for calculating impedances ?

For example Z = 2.pi.f.L is a common one.

L is clearly a well-understood 'shorthand' for inductance along with R
and C for resistance and capacitance.

I don't know of any components requiring designation on a schematic or
PCB that require defining by Y, B or G, hence your argument is
fallacious not least that G is nerely the inverse of R and therefore
redundant.

How often do you buy 'conductances' from suppliers btw ?

Graham
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John Larkin wrote:
On Sun, 05 Sep 2010 08:57:03 -0700, Fred Abse
wrote:

On Sat, 04 Sep 2010 07:56:51 +0100, Eeyore wrote:

Do please especially explain the relevance of the letter Q to indicate a
transistor or U for an IC.

No sillier than "L" for inductance, or "Z" for impedance, or "Y" for
admittance, or "B" for susceptance, or "G" for conductance.



I've actually seen schematics that used CHO for inductor, RLY for
relay, LED for LED, POT or RV for a variable resistor, BR for a
rectifier, CON for a connector. Audio, of course. Schematics that use
such designators are invariably amateur crap circuits in their own
right. They generally use the dreadful "4K7" thing too.

John


Not happy with posting it once ?
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John Larkin wrote:
On Sat, 04 Sep 2010 07:56:51 +0100, Eeyore
m wrote:

John Fields wrote: ANSI reference designators.pdf

Only for antiquated Americans of course.

Do please especially explain the relevance of the letter Q to indicate a
transistor or U for an IC.


We invented them, we named them. You can have credit for "V".


Actually the first transistor ( a FET ) was theorised by a German in the
30s IIRC. I believe he even tried to make one but materials weren't pure
enough back then.

Similarly a Briton forsaw ICs in the 50s calling them 'solid circuits'
at the time.

Graham
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Grant wrote:
On Sun, 05 Sep 2010 07:11:20 +0100, Eeyore m wrote:

Phil Hobbs wrote:
Eeyore wrote:
John Fields wrote: ANSI reference designators.pdf

Only for antiquated Americans of course.

Do please especially explain the relevance of the letter Q to indicate
a transistor or U for an IC.

Graham
Chronological snobbery. I thought it was Brits who liked to keep old
names for things, such as your treasury department, which is still named
after the gingham tablecloth that they used to count the money on,
around a thousand years ago. (*)

The name Treasury ( which one could critice itself for being
'old-fashioned' despite common US usage ) has no connection with
tablecloths. You ought to do your research before posting.

http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/about_history.htm

" The origin of the name €œexchequer€ derives from the chequered table
(based on the abacus) which was used from about 1110 for calculating
expenditure and receipts. "

British English btw is renowned for accepting many forms of linguistic
influence inluding taking entire foreign phrases into common use. In
this respect it is probably the most dynamic language in the world.

Now explain why U = integrated circuit and Q = transistor. It defies any
form of common sense.

Sensible usage is 'IC' and 'TR'.


So the transformer is?


Typically TX is my experience.


I and C already taken for other uses, so remaining
letters get a showing too. Too hard? Hardly matters.


Where on a schematic do you come across an 'I' ?

IC is a combination of 2 leters so clearly distinguishable.

Graham


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Ian Jackson wrote:

To save me having to dig one out, could someone please remind me what's
a 'tube' in American circuits? [I seem to be having a very 'senior
moment' at the moment!] In British circuits, it is, of course, 'V' for
'valve'.


According to the posted file it is also 'V' in American Speak !

Graham
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John Larkin wrote:

Americans invented electronics


WRONG !

Never mind the early work of Faraday, Fleming et al, The first
'electronic' device, the diode, was invented by a Briton.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diode
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_Guthrie

BTW do you also dismiss the work of Marconi ?

Graham
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John Larkin wrote:

Americans invented electronics, invented modern electronics, invented
the vacuum triode, the opamp, the transistor, the IC, semiconductor
RAM, uPs, LEDs, lasers, programmable logic, all sorts of stuff. We
picked the reference designators, because we needed them first.


So how do you distinguish opamps from ICs, RAM, uPs and programmable
logic ? They are all 'U'. VERY clever.

You're certainly wrong about RAM btw and the op-amp is merely a circuit
configuration.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Williams_tube

The Williams tube or the Williams-Kilburn tube (after inventors Freddie
Williams and Tom Kilburn), developed in about 1946 or 1947, was a
cathode ray tube used to electronically store binary data.

It was the first random-access digital storage device,[1] and was used
successfully in several early computers.


Graham
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John Larkin wrote:

Americans invented electronics, invented modern electronics, invented
the vacuum triode, the opamp, the transistor, the IC, semiconductor
RAM, uPs, LEDs, lasers, programmable logic, all sorts of stuff. We
picked the reference designators, because we needed them first.


Just checking, you're wrong about the LED too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light-e..._early_devices

Electroluminescence was discovered in 1907 by the British experimenter
H. J. Round of Marconi Labs, using a crystal of silicon carbide and a
cat's-whisker detector.[4][5] Russian Oleg Vladimirovich Losev
independently reported on the creation of an LED in 1927.

Just for good measure the first commercial computer was British too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferranti_Mark_1

The Ferranti Mark 1, also known as the Manchester Electronic Computer in
its sales literature,[1] and thus sometimes called the Manchester
Ferranti, was the world's first commercially available general-purpose
electronic computer.

And who broke the 'unbreakable' German Enigma code ?
http://www.bletchleypark.org.uk/

The USA had to rely on the resulting 'Ultra' signals intelligence for
the duration of WW2.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra

Did I mention the resonant cavity magnetron btw ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cavity_magnetron

Graham


Graham


Graham
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On Mon, 06 Sep 2010 02:28:56 +0100, Eeyore
m wrote:

John Larkin wrote:

Americans invented electronics


WRONG !

Never mind the early work of Faraday, Fleming et al, The first
'electronic' device, the diode, was invented by a Briton.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diode
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_Guthrie


I don't consider Fleming's diode to quite be "electronics" because it
didn't have gain.

BTW do you also dismiss the work of Marconi ?


It wasn't electronics either.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio#History

John



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On Mon, 06 Sep 2010 02:37:06 +0100, Eeyore
m wrote:

John Larkin wrote:

Americans invented electronics, invented modern electronics, invented
the vacuum triode, the opamp, the transistor, the IC, semiconductor
RAM, uPs, LEDs, lasers, programmable logic, all sorts of stuff. We
picked the reference designators, because we needed them first.


So how do you distinguish opamps from ICs, RAM, uPs and programmable
logic ? They are all 'U'. VERY clever.


How do you? RAM12, FPGA4B, uP6, OPAMP7? VERY ugly.





You're certainly wrong about RAM btw


I said "semiconductor RAM"

and the op-amp is merely a circuit
configuration.


Isn't everything?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Williams_tube

The Williams tube or the Williams-Kilburn tube (after inventors Freddie
Williams and Tom Kilburn), developed in about 1946 or 1947, was a
cathode ray tube used to electronically store binary data.

It was the first random-access digital storage device,[1] and was used
successfully in several early computers.


And not very useful. Semiconductor RAMs are still around; Williams
tubes aren't.

John

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On Mon, 06 Sep 2010 03:00:38 +0100, Eeyore
m wrote:

John Larkin wrote:

Americans invented electronics, invented modern electronics, invented
the vacuum triode, the opamp, the transistor, the IC, semiconductor
RAM, uPs, LEDs, lasers, programmable logic, all sorts of stuff. We
picked the reference designators, because we needed them first.


Just checking, you're wrong about the LED too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light-e..._early_devices

Electroluminescence was discovered in 1907 by the British experimenter
H. J. Round of Marconi Labs, using a crystal of silicon carbide and a
cat's-whisker detector.[4][5] Russian Oleg Vladimirovich Losev
independently reported on the creation of an LED in 1927.


Neither want anywhere.


Just for good measure the first commercial computer was British too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferranti_Mark_1

The Ferranti Mark 1, also known as the Manchester Electronic Computer in
its sales literature,[1] and thus sometimes called the Manchester
Ferranti, was the world's first commercially available general-purpose
electronic computer.


What sort of computers does Ferranti make nowadays?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferranti#Collapse


And who broke the 'unbreakable' German Enigma code ?
http://www.bletchleypark.org.uk/


With a lot of help from the Poles.

John

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On Mon, 06 Sep 2010 01:53:22 +0100, Eeyore
m wrote:

John Larkin wrote:
On Sat, 04 Sep 2010 07:56:51 +0100, Eeyore
m wrote:

John Fields wrote: ANSI reference designators.pdf

Only for antiquated Americans of course.

Do please especially explain the relevance of the letter Q to indicate a
transistor or U for an IC.


We invented them, we named them. You can have credit for "V".


Actually the first transistor ( a FET ) was theorised by a German in the
30s IIRC. I believe he even tried to make one but materials weren't pure
enough back then.

Similarly a Briton forsaw ICs in the 50s calling them 'solid circuits'
at the time.

Graham


But none of those ideas went anywhere.

John

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On Mon, 06 Sep 2010 03:00:38 +0100, Eeyore
m wrote:


And who broke the 'unbreakable' German Enigma code ?
http://www.bletchleypark.org.uk/


This guy?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biuro_Szyfr%C3%B3w

"Five weeks before the outbreak of World War II, on 25 July 1939, in
Warsaw, the Polish Cipher Bureau revealed its Enigma-decryption
techniques and equipment to representatives of French and British
military intelligence, which had been unable to make any headway
against Enigma. This Polish intelligence-and-technology transfer would
give the Allies an unprecedented advantage (Ultra) in their ultimately
victorious prosecution of World War II."


John

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John Larkin wrote:
On Mon, 06 Sep 2010 03:00:38 +0100, Eeyore wrote:
John Larkin wrote:

Americans invented electronics, invented modern electronics, invented
the vacuum triode, the opamp, the transistor, the IC, semiconductor
RAM, uPs, LEDs, lasers, programmable logic, all sorts of stuff. We
picked the reference designators, because we needed them first.

Just checking, you're wrong about the LED too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light-e..._early_devices

Electroluminescence was discovered in 1907 by the British experimenter
H. J. Round of Marconi Labs, using a crystal of silicon carbide and a
cat's-whisker detector.[4][5] Russian Oleg Vladimirovich Losev
independently reported on the creation of an LED in 1927.


Neither want anywhere.


I assume you meant 'went' rather than 'want' ? At the time there was no
practical use. Doesn't change the date of discovery though. SiC too !
That took a while to enter general LED usage.


Just for good measure the first commercial computer was British too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferranti_Mark_1

The Ferranti Mark 1, also known as the Manchester Electronic Computer in
its sales literature,[1] and thus sometimes called the Manchester
Ferranti, was the world's first commercially available general-purpose
electronic computer.


What sort of computers does Ferranti make nowadays?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferranti#Collapse


Courtesy of a corrupt US Company.

BTW In the 50s or maybe 60s IIRC Ferranti invented 'virtual memory'.
They sold the idea/patent to IBM. They were simply 40 or so years ahead
of their time for mass usage.


And who broke the 'unbreakable' German Enigma code ?
http://www.bletchleypark.org.uk/


With a lot of help from the Poles.


Care to elaborate in detail ? I'm intruiged.

Graham


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John Larkin wrote:
On Mon, 06 Sep 2010 03:00:38 +0100, Eeyore
m wrote:


And who broke the 'unbreakable' German Enigma code ?
http://www.bletchleypark.org.uk/


This guy?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biuro_Szyfr%C3%B3w

"Five weeks before the outbreak of World War II, on 25 July 1939, in
Warsaw, the Polish Cipher Bureau revealed its Enigma-decryption
techniques and equipment to representatives of French and British
military intelligence, which had been unable to make any headway
against Enigma. This Polish intelligence-and-technology transfer would
give the Allies an unprecedented advantage (Ultra) in their ultimately
victorious prosecution of World War II."


Clearly not immediately relevant since it was much later that the German
Enigma code was broken.

How much did he contribute to this ....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colossus_computer

It's been rebuilt AIUI btw !


Graham

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On Sun, 05 Sep 2010 10:08:01 -0700, John Larkin wrote:

On Sun, 05 Sep 2010 08:57:03 -0700, Fred Abse
wrote:

On Sat, 04 Sep 2010 07:56:51 +0100, Eeyore wrote:

Do please especially explain the relevance of the letter Q to indicate a
transistor or U for an IC.


No sillier than "L" for inductance, or "Z" for impedance, or "Y" for
admittance, or "B" for susceptance, or "G" for conductance.



I've actually seen schematics that used CHO for inductor, RLY for
relay, LED for LED, POT or RV for a variable resistor, BR for a
rectifier, CON for a connector. Audio, of course. Schematics that use
such designators are invariably amateur crap circuits in their own
right. They generally use the dreadful "4K7" thing too.


Hey John, I get resistors marked 4k7 or 6R8. What's so bad about
that? Not that I'd try to convince you otherwise, I got used to it
about the same time a workplace talked me out of zigzag resistors
and into box ones like the industry mags or something did. I just
went with the flow, no point arguing.

Though Farnell (your Newark too?) don't know the difference between
upper and lower case multipliers, and MH might actually be uH or mH.

Grant.
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Eeyore wrote:
John Larkin wrote:
On Mon, 06 Sep 2010 03:00:38 +0100, Eeyore
m wrote:


And who broke the 'unbreakable' German Enigma code ?
http://www.bletchleypark.org.uk/


This guy?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biuro_Szyfr%C3%B3w

"Five weeks before the outbreak of World War II, on 25 July 1939, in
Warsaw, the Polish Cipher Bureau revealed its Enigma-decryption
techniques and equipment to representatives of French and British
military intelligence, which had been unable to make any headway
against Enigma. This Polish intelligence-and-technology transfer would
give the Allies an unprecedented advantage (Ultra) in their ultimately
victorious prosecution of World War II."


Clearly not immediately relevant since it was much later that the German
Enigma code was broken.

How much did he contribute to this ....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colossus_computer

It's been rebuilt AIUI btw !


Futher info ......

Construction of a fully-functional replica[11] of a Colossus Mark 2 was
undertaken by a team led by Tony Sale. In spite of the blueprints and
hardware being destroyed, a surprising amount of material survived,
mainly in engineers' notebooks, but a considerable amount of it in the
U.S. The optical tape reader might have posed the biggest problem, but
Dr. Arnold Lynch, its original designer, was able to redesign it to his
own original specification. The reconstruction is on display, in the
historically correct place for Colossus No. 9, at The National Museum of
Computing, in H Block Bletchley Park in Milton Keynes, Buckinghamshire.

In November 2007, to celebrate the project completion and to mark the
start of a fundraising initiative for The National Museum of Computing,
a Cipher Challenge[12] pitted the rebuilt Colossus against radio
amateurs worldwide in being first to receive and decode three messages
enciphered using the Lorenz SZ42 and transmitted from radio station
DL0HNF in the Heinz Nixdorf MuseumsForum computer museum. The challenge
was easily won by radio amateur Joachim Schüth, who had carefully
prepared[13] for the event and developed his own signal processing and
decrypt code using Ada.[14] The Colossus team were hampered by their
wish to use World War II radio equipment,[15] delaying them by a day
because of poor reception conditions. Nevertheless the victor's 1.4 GHz
laptop, running his own code, took less than a minute to find the
settings for all 12 wheels. The German codebreaker said: "My laptop
digested ciphertext at a speed of 1.2 million characters per second—240
times faster than Colossus. If you scale the CPU frequency by that
factor, you get an equivalent clock of 5.8 MHz for Colossus. That is a
remarkable speed for a computer built in 1944."[16]

The Cipher Challenge verified the successful completion of the rebuild
project. "On the strength of today's performance Colossus is as good as
it was six decades ago", commented Tony Sale. "We are delighted to have
produced a fitting tribute to the people who worked at Bletchley Park
and whose brainpower devised these fantastic machines which broke these
ciphers and shortened the war by many months."

( some claim the war was shortened by between 2 and 4 years ) and it was
us BRITISH who did it !

Graham
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John Fields wrote:
On Sat, 04 Sep 2010 07:56:51 +0100, Eeyore
m wrote:

John Fields wrote: ANSI reference designators.pdf

Only for antiquated Americans of course.


---
Us???


Sure. ANSI = American National Standards Institute. For the USA only.

Note AMERICAN. ANSI has no international validity.

The rest of the world uses INTERNATIONAL standards like IEC. Why do you
want to drag your feet against the tide ?

Answer ? You can't ! No-one cares about a small population of 300m
people who insist on being irrelevant and backward.

As for UL Electrical Standards, they have no alternative but to adopt
IEC standards lest be locked out of the International market with silly
amendments such as adopting your AWG wire sizes instead of mm2.

You really should have 'metricated' ( as you said you would years ago )
to save such nonsence.

Graham
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John Fields wrote:
On Sat, 04 Sep 2010 07:56:51 +0100, Eeyorwrote:

Do please especially explain the relevance of the letter Q to indicate a
transistor or U for an IC.


---
With pleasure. :-)

The reference designator assigned to a transistor: "Q", refers to
(Q)uantum.

From:

http://www.pbs.org/transistor/science/info/quantum.html


"Unlike water flowing along in one direction through a hose, electrons
traveling along as electrical current can sometimes follow weird
paths, especially if they're moving near the surface of a material.
Moreover, electrons acting like a wave can sometimes burrow right
through a barrier. Understanding this odd behavior of electrons was
necessary as scientists tried to control how current flowed through
the first transistors."


Is this really any different from bizarre current flow in certain of
your 'vacuum tubes' ?

Graham


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Grant wrote:

Hey John, I get resistors marked 4k7 or 6R8. What's so bad about
that?


Nothing. It's perfectly correct. I'm pleased to see you used lower case k.

I'm curious what John would expect to see on them.

Graham
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John Larkin wrote:
On Mon, 06 Sep 2010 01:53:22 +0100, Eeyore wrote:
John Larkin wrote:
On Sat, 04 Sep 2010 07:56:51 +0100, Eeyore wrote:

John Fields wrote: ANSI reference designators.pdf

Only for antiquated Americans of course.

Do please especially explain the relevance of the letter Q to indicate a
transistor or U for an IC.
We invented them, we named them. You can have credit for "V".

Actually the first transistor ( a FET ) was theorised by a German in the
30s IIRC. I believe he even tried to make one but materials weren't pure
enough back then.

Similarly a Briton forsaw ICs in the 50s calling them 'solid circuits'
at the time.

Graham


But none of those ideas went anywhere.


That (a) wasn't the issue. And (b) they most certainly went somewhere in
due course. We were just way ahead of what the technology and materials
technology of the time could offer.

Graham
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On Mon, 06 Sep 2010 01:47:41 +0100, Eeyore
m wrote:

Fred Abse wrote:
On Sat, 04 Sep 2010 07:56:51 +0100, Eeyore wrote:

Do please especially explain the relevance of the letter Q to indicate a
transistor or U for an IC.


No sillier than "L" for inductance, or "Z" for impedance, or "Y" for
admittance, or "B" for susceptance, or "G" for conductance.


What kind of equations do you use for calculating impedances ?

For example Z = 2.pi.f.L is a common one.


---
That's only true because:

Z = sqrt (R² + (Xl - Xc)²)

and it's the only circuit element being considered.

More correctly, 2pi f L is considered to be the "inductive reactance"
of an inductor, and the equation is written:

Xl = 2pi f L
---

L is clearly a well-understood 'shorthand' for inductance along with R
and C for resistance and capacitance.

I don't know of any components requiring designation on a schematic or
PCB that require defining by Y, B or G,


---
"Y" is the reference for any sort of resonator, but more particularly
for the ubiquitous quartz crystal resonator.

"B" is the reference designator for a blwer, motor, or synchro, and
"G" is the reference designator for, among other things, a generator.

---
JF
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On Mon, 06 Sep 2010 01:48:56 +0100, Eeyore
m wrote:


Not happy with posting it once ?


---
Not happy?

---
JF
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On Mon, 06 Sep 2010 02:37:06 +0100, Eeyore
m wrote:

John Larkin wrote:

Americans invented electronics, invented modern electronics, invented
the vacuum triode, the opamp, the transistor, the IC, semiconductor
RAM, uPs, LEDs, lasers, programmable logic, all sorts of stuff. We
picked the reference designators, because we needed them first.


So how do you distinguish opamps from ICs, RAM, uPs and programmable
logic ? They are all 'U'. VERY clever.


---
Indeed, since "U" is the reference designator for an inseparable
assembly, which all of those devices happen to be, U1 could be right
next to U2, and anyone with any sense would differentiate their
functions by referring to the device's part number.
---

You're certainly wrong about RAM btw and the op-amp is merely a circuit
configuration.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Williams_tube

The Williams tube or the Williams-Kilburn tube (after inventors Freddie
Williams and Tom Kilburn), developed in about 1946 or 1947, was a
cathode ray tube used to electronically store binary data.

It was the first random-access digital storage device,[1] and was used
successfully in several early computers.


---
_Semiconductor_ RAM was what Larkin wrote about, so your comments, as
usual, are irrelevant.

---
JF
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