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Hi all,

I have this circuit that I am hope to use for HV electrolysis. It has
damaged every Mosfet and IGBT I have tried. It even damaged an IGBT
that is rated 600V and 58 amps. The circuit works without a hitch when
the load is resistive like a light bulb.

But as soon as I hook up a transformer the IGBT fails in 10 seconds. It
has trouble with inductive loads.

I have tried clamping the IGBT with a diode to no avail.

Please, somebody take a look and tell me what I am doing wrong. My
power source is and auto inverter.


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On 2009-01-11 12:14:37 -0800, "BobW"
said:


"Admin" wrote in message
news:2009011111185316807-sowhati@comcastnet...

Hi all,

I have this circuit that I am hope to use for HV electrolysis. It has
damaged every Mosfet and IGBT I have tried. It even damaged an IGBT
that is rated 600V and 58 amps. The circuit works without a hitch when
the load is resistive like a light bulb.

But as soon as I hook up a transformer the IGBT fails in 10 seconds. It
has trouble with inductive loads.

I have tried clamping the IGBT with a diode to no avail.

Please, somebody take a look and tell me what I am doing wrong. My
power source is and auto inverter.


What is the purpose of the top (120V) zener? You could remove and count on
the diode to clamp the drain to the plus supply, right? That zener might not
be fast enough to start conducting as soon as the fet is turned off and the
drain voltage wants to fly way above the plus supply.

It's possible that the whole transformer/Water cap circuit is ringing and
the drain is trying to go below the source, too.

Have you looked at the drain on a scope with a low capacitance probe?

If you just want to try stuff, try shorting out the top zener and also
replace the bottom zener with another fast diode. That should keep the drain
in bounds with reactive loads.

Bob


Thanks for taking the time to reply.
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On Sun, 11 Jan 2009 11:18:53 -0800, Admin wrote:


Hi all,

I have this circuit that I am hope to use for HV electrolysis. It has
damaged every Mosfet and IGBT I have tried. It even damaged an IGBT
that is rated 600V and 58 amps. The circuit works without a hitch when
the load is resistive like a light bulb.

But as soon as I hook up a transformer the IGBT fails in 10 seconds. It
has trouble with inductive loads.

I have tried clamping the IGBT with a diode to no avail.

Please, somebody take a look and tell me what I am doing wrong. My
power source is and auto inverter.


Where to begin?

The gate driver is seriously wimpy, unbypasses zener 12-volt thing,
weak opto pullup and weaker passive pulldown. Slow edges make for high
dissipation. You need a serious gate driver, like an LM5112 or some
such.

Is the transformer saturating? The slow gate drive may contribute.

Why such a tiny post-rectifier filter cap?

What's the operating frequency and pulse width?

Why use a transformer at all?

What's it all for, anyhow? Electrolysis is absurdly inefficient at
high voltages.

John



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On Sun, 11 Jan 2009 11:18:53 -0800, Admin wrote:


Hi all,

I have this circuit that I am hope to use for HV electrolysis. It has
damaged every Mosfet and IGBT I have tried. It even damaged an IGBT
that is rated 600V and 58 amps. The circuit works without a hitch when
the load is resistive like a light bulb.

But as soon as I hook up a transformer the IGBT fails in 10 seconds. It
has trouble with inductive loads.

I have tried clamping the IGBT with a diode to no avail.

Please, somebody take a look and tell me what I am doing wrong. My
power source is and auto inverter.


Hey, with the HV supply being essentially unfiltered, and the 5:1 gate
voltage divider formed by the 4K and 1K resistors, during a lot of the
AC cycle this is a linear-mode fet fryer.

This sounds like one of those automotive Brown's gas things, in which
case the whole thing is a waste of time and silicon.

John

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On 2009-01-11 13:02:45 -0800, John Larkin
said:

Where to begin?

The gate driver is seriously wimpy, unbypasses zener 12-volt thing,
weak opto pullup and weaker passive pulldown. Slow edges make for high
dissipation. You need a serious gate driver, like an LM5112 or some
such.

Is the transformer saturating? The slow gate drive may contribute.

Why such a tiny post-rectifier filter cap?

I tried a 35uF 400 V cap. Still same results.
What's the operating frequency and pulse width?

The frequency is variable between 90HZ and 2kH. The pulse width is 50%

Why use a transformer at all?

The transformer provides a higher voltage and lower current which is
ideal for this type of electrolysis.
What's it all for, anyhow? Electrolysis is absurdly inefficient at
high voltages.

John



-



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On Mon, 12 Jan 2009 19:33:48 -0800, Archimedes' Lever
wrote:

On Sun, 11 Jan 2009 13:02:45 -0800, John Larkin
wrote:

What's it all for, anyhow? Electrolysis is absurdly inefficient at
high voltages.

John

We made an Electrophoresis supply that was HV. Drove a similar type
loading... banks of EP wells.


I think he's trying to make Brown's gas to inject into a car engine.
Silly.

John

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hi, i dont think anything interesting is a waste of time .
wether people like you dont like it , well tough , you can NEVER TELL
where this sort of experementing will take you , without experimenting ,
we would have nothing.

mark k


"John Larkin" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 11 Jan 2009 11:18:53 -0800, Admin wrote:


Hi all,

I have this circuit that I am hope to use for HV electrolysis. It has
damaged every Mosfet and IGBT I have tried. It even damaged an IGBT
that is rated 600V and 58 amps. The circuit works without a hitch when
the load is resistive like a light bulb.

But as soon as I hook up a transformer the IGBT fails in 10 seconds. It
has trouble with inductive loads.

I have tried clamping the IGBT with a diode to no avail.

Please, somebody take a look and tell me what I am doing wrong. My
power source is and auto inverter.


Hey, with the HV supply being essentially unfiltered, and the 5:1 gate
voltage divider formed by the 4K and 1K resistors, during a lot of the
AC cycle this is a linear-mode fet fryer.

This sounds like one of those automotive Brown's gas things, in which
case the whole thing is a waste of time and silicon.

John



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On Fri, 16 Jan 2009 18:29:24 +1030, "mark krawczuk"
wrote:

hi, i dont think anything interesting is a waste of time .
wether people like you dont like it , well tough , you can NEVER TELL
where this sort of experementing will take you , without experimenting ,
we would have nothing.

mark k


There are few things in life that I hold sacred, and don't dare to
mess with. Conservation of Energy is # 1.

John


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On 2009-01-16 15:19:37 -0800, John Larkin
said:

On Fri, 16 Jan 2009 18:29:24 +1030, "mark krawczuk"
wrote:

hi, i dont think anything interesting is a waste of time .
wether people like you dont like it , well tough , you can NEVER TELL
where this sort of experementing will take you , without experimenting ,
we would have nothing.

mark k


There are few things in life that I hold sacred, and don't dare to
mess with. Conservation of Energy is # 1.

John


Nobody is claiming free energy here. The alternator is under utilized
in a vehicle if the AC is not on. This process uses the spare
alternator wattage to make HHO.

Why is it a problem to some people?
--

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On Fri, 16 Jan 2009 18:29:24 +1030, "mark krawczuk"
wrote:




"John Larkin" wrote in message
.. .


This sounds like one of those automotive Brown's gas things, in which
case the whole thing is a waste of time and silicon.


hi, i dont think anything interesting is a waste of time .
wether people like you dont like it , well tough , you can NEVER TELL
where this sort of experementing will take you , without experimenting ,
we would have nothing.


---
But, Mark, you just don't understand.

If Mr. Larkin says it's a waste of time and silicon, then regardless of
whether anyone wants to experiment and find out _why_ , for themselves,
they really shouldn't.

I don't know why, that's just the way Mr. Larkin wants it, and since he
knows best it's better just to do it his way and ask no questions.

PS... please take my lead and bottom post.

JF


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On 2009-01-16 15:19:37 -0800, John Larkin
said:

On Fri, 16 Jan 2009 18:29:24 +1030, "mark krawczuk"
wrote:

hi, i dont think anything interesting is a waste of time .
wether people like you dont like it , well tough , you can NEVER TELL
where this sort of experementing will take you , without experimenting ,
we would have nothing.

mark k


There are few things in life that I hold sacred, and don't dare to
mess with. Conservation of Energy is # 1.

John


Buy the way, I replaced the wimpy cap with a 330 uF 200V cap but I am
still frying Mosfets. They last longer but eventually the die.

Anymore ideas? I am using a 120 V auto inverter as the power source.
--

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On Fri, 16 Jan 2009 19:42:06 -0600, John Fields
wrote:

On Fri, 16 Jan 2009 18:29:24 +1030, "mark krawczuk"
wrote:




"John Larkin" wrote in message
. ..


This sounds like one of those automotive Brown's gas things, in which
case the whole thing is a waste of time and silicon.


hi, i dont think anything interesting is a waste of time .
wether people like you dont like it , well tough , you can NEVER TELL
where this sort of experementing will take you , without experimenting ,
we would have nothing.


---
But, Mark, you just don't understand.

If Mr. Larkin says it's a waste of time and silicon, then regardless of
whether anyone wants to experiment and find out _why_ , for themselves,
they really shouldn't.


OK, alternator/battery drives DC-120VAC converter, which drives
transformer-rectifier DC supply, then high-voltage flyback converter,
which drives electrolyzer to make hydrogen+oxygen gas bubbles, which
are injected into the engine intake to make more energy than it took
to drive the alternator. Run your car on water!

And you don't see anything wrong with the thermodynamics of this?

John


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mark krawczuk wrote:

hi, i dont think anything interesting is a waste of time


Yes, plenty are. Such as things that are known NOT to work.

Graham

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Admin wrote:

Nobody is claiming free energy here. The alternator is under utilized
in a vehicle if the AC is not on. This process uses the spare
alternator wattage to make HHO.


There is no 'spare' alternator wattage. Run a load from it and the power input
has to increase, i.e. more drag on the engine.

You're an idiot with very clearly little grasp of science. Go away and take your
stupid unscientific ideas with you.

Graham

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Admin wrote:

Buy the way, I replaced the wimpy cap with a 330 uF 200V cap but I am
still frying Mosfets. They last longer but eventually the die.


Good, it'll teach you to stop trying to mess with the laws of physics.

Graham



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John Larkin wrote:

John Fields wrote:
"mark krawczuk" wrote:
"John Larkin" wrote


This sounds like one of those automotive Brown's gas things, in which
case the whole thing is a waste of time and silicon.


hi, i dont think anything interesting is a waste of time .
wether people like you dont like it , well tough , you can NEVER TELL
where this sort of experementing will take you , without experimenting ,
we would have nothing.


---
But, Mark, you just don't understand.

If Mr. Larkin says it's a waste of time and silicon, then regardless of
whether anyone wants to experiment and find out _why_ , for themselves,
they really shouldn't.


OK, alternator/battery drives DC-120VAC converter, which drives
transformer-rectifier DC supply, then high-voltage flyback converter,
which drives electrolyzer to make hydrogen+oxygen gas bubbles, which
are injected into the engine intake to make more energy than it took
to drive the alternator. Run your car on water!

And you don't see anything wrong with the thermodynamics of this?


Fields isn't as smart as he makes himself out to be.

Graham

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On Fri, 16 Jan 2009 17:38:08 -0800, Admin wrote:

On 2009-01-16 15:19:37 -0800, John Larkin
said:

On Fri, 16 Jan 2009 18:29:24 +1030, "mark krawczuk"
wrote:

hi, i dont think anything interesting is a waste of time .
wether people like you dont like it , well tough , you can NEVER TELL
where this sort of experementing will take you , without experimenting ,
we would have nothing.

mark k


There are few things in life that I hold sacred, and don't dare to
mess with. Conservation of Energy is # 1.

John


Nobody is claiming free energy here. The alternator is under utilized
in a vehicle if the AC is not on.


Really? How do you conclude that?

This process uses the spare
alternator wattage to make HHO.

Why is it a problem to some people?


...Jim Thompson
--
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| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
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I love to cook with wine Sometimes I even put it in the food
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On Fri, 16 Jan 2009 22:19:02 -0800, John Larkin
wrote:

On Fri, 16 Jan 2009 19:42:06 -0600, John Fields
wrote:

On Fri, 16 Jan 2009 18:29:24 +1030, "mark krawczuk"
wrote:




"John Larkin" wrote in message
...


This sounds like one of those automotive Brown's gas things, in which
case the whole thing is a waste of time and silicon.


hi, i dont think anything interesting is a waste of time .
wether people like you dont like it , well tough , you can NEVER TELL
where this sort of experementing will take you , without experimenting ,
we would have nothing.


---
But, Mark, you just don't understand.

If Mr. Larkin says it's a waste of time and silicon, then regardless of
whether anyone wants to experiment and find out _why_ , for themselves,
they really shouldn't.


OK, alternator/battery drives DC-120VAC converter, which drives
transformer-rectifier DC supply, then high-voltage flyback converter,
which drives electrolyzer to make hydrogen+oxygen gas bubbles, which
are injected into the engine intake to make more energy than it took
to drive the alternator. Run your car on water!

And you don't see anything wrong with the thermodynamics of this?

John


I had a school teacher tell me that, when confronted by confusing
science, she fell back to "common sense". Need I say more ?:-)

Doctors and dentists make particularly gullible investors ;-)

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine Sometimes I even put it in the food
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On 2009-01-17 00:28:26 -0800, Eeyore
said:



Admin wrote:

Buy the way, I replaced the wimpy cap with a 330 uF 200V cap but I am
still frying Mosfets. They last longer but eventually the die.


Good, it'll teach you to stop trying to mess with the laws of physics.

Graham


Did you think through that statement?
--

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Admin wrote:

Eeyore said:
Admin wrote:

Buy the way, I replaced the wimpy cap with a 330 uF 200V cap but I am
still frying Mosfets. They last longer but eventually the die.


Good, it'll teach you to stop trying to mess with the laws of physics.

Graham


Did you think through that statement?


Yes. And you're still an idiot.

Graham



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On Sat, 17 Jan 2009 08:38:41 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:

On Fri, 16 Jan 2009 22:19:02 -0800, John Larkin
wrote:

On Fri, 16 Jan 2009 19:42:06 -0600, John Fields
wrote:

On Fri, 16 Jan 2009 18:29:24 +1030, "mark krawczuk"
wrote:




"John Larkin" wrote in message
m...

This sounds like one of those automotive Brown's gas things, in which
case the whole thing is a waste of time and silicon.

hi, i dont think anything interesting is a waste of time .
wether people like you dont like it , well tough , you can NEVER TELL
where this sort of experementing will take you , without experimenting ,
we would have nothing.

---
But, Mark, you just don't understand.

If Mr. Larkin says it's a waste of time and silicon, then regardless of
whether anyone wants to experiment and find out _why_ , for themselves,
they really shouldn't.


OK, alternator/battery drives DC-120VAC converter, which drives
transformer-rectifier DC supply, then high-voltage flyback converter,
which drives electrolyzer to make hydrogen+oxygen gas bubbles, which
are injected into the engine intake to make more energy than it took
to drive the alternator. Run your car on water!

And you don't see anything wrong with the thermodynamics of this?

John


I had a school teacher tell me that, when confronted by confusing
science, she fell back to "common sense". Need I say more ?:-)

Doctors and dentists make particularly gullible investors ;-)

...Jim Thompson


Some things are truly impossible. The universe just forbids them from
working. An engineer should be able to spot them and save time and
money.

Imagine what a mess it would be if anything were possible!

John

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Eeyore wrote:

mark krawczuk wrote:

hi, i dont think anything interesting is a waste of time


Yes, plenty are. Such as things that are known NOT to work.

Graham



Like old donkeys?


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On 2009-01-17 14:23:39 -0800, "Michael A. Terrell"
said:


Eeyore wrote:

mark krawczuk wrote:

hi, i dont think anything interesting is a waste of time


Yes, plenty are. Such as things that are known NOT to work.

Graham



Like old donkeys?


Well, it is working now. The 120 V zener was faulty.
Thanks to all the helpers. Pie in the faces of the negative nay-sayers.
See ya.
--

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Admin wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" said:
Eeyore wrote:
mark krawczuk wrote:

hi, i dont think anything interesting is a waste of time

Yes, plenty are. Such as things that are known NOT to work.


Well, it is working now. The 120 V zener was faulty.
Thanks to all the helpers. Pie in the faces of the negative nay-sayers.
See ya.


It'll still be overall energy negative.

Graham

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On Sat, 17 Jan 2009 10:46:13 -0800, John Larkin
wrote:

On Sat, 17 Jan 2009 08:38:41 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:

On Fri, 16 Jan 2009 22:19:02 -0800, John Larkin
wrote:

On Fri, 16 Jan 2009 19:42:06 -0600, John Fields
wrote:

On Fri, 16 Jan 2009 18:29:24 +1030, "mark krawczuk"
wrote:




"John Larkin" wrote in message
om...

This sounds like one of those automotive Brown's gas things, in which
case the whole thing is a waste of time and silicon.

hi, i dont think anything interesting is a waste of time .
wether people like you dont like it , well tough , you can NEVER TELL
where this sort of experementing will take you , without experimenting ,
we would have nothing.

---
But, Mark, you just don't understand.

If Mr. Larkin says it's a waste of time and silicon, then regardless of
whether anyone wants to experiment and find out _why_ , for themselves,
they really shouldn't.

OK, alternator/battery drives DC-120VAC converter, which drives
transformer-rectifier DC supply, then high-voltage flyback converter,
which drives electrolyzer to make hydrogen+oxygen gas bubbles, which
are injected into the engine intake to make more energy than it took
to drive the alternator. Run your car on water!

And you don't see anything wrong with the thermodynamics of this?

John


I had a school teacher tell me that, when confronted by confusing
science, she fell back to "common sense". Need I say more ?:-)

Doctors and dentists make particularly gullible investors ;-)

...Jim Thompson


Some things are truly impossible. The universe just forbids them from
working. An engineer should be able to spot them and save time and
money.

Imagine what a mess it would be if anything were possible!


---
Are your dreams a mess?

JF


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On Fri, 16 Jan 2009 22:19:02 -0800, John Larkin
wrote:

On Fri, 16 Jan 2009 19:42:06 -0600, John Fields
wrote:

On Fri, 16 Jan 2009 18:29:24 +1030, "mark krawczuk"
wrote:




"John Larkin" wrote in message
...


This sounds like one of those automotive Brown's gas things, in which
case the whole thing is a waste of time and silicon.


hi, i dont think anything interesting is a waste of time .
wether people like you dont like it , well tough , you can NEVER TELL
where this sort of experementing will take you , without experimenting ,
we would have nothing.


---
But, Mark, you just don't understand.

If Mr. Larkin says it's a waste of time and silicon, then regardless of
whether anyone wants to experiment and find out _why_ , for themselves,
they really shouldn't.


OK, alternator/battery drives DC-120VAC converter, which drives
transformer-rectifier DC supply, then high-voltage flyback converter,
which drives electrolyzer to make hydrogen+oxygen gas bubbles, which
are injected into the engine intake to make more energy than it took
to drive the alternator. Run your car on water!

And you don't see anything wrong with the thermodynamics of this?


---
As usual, you've got your head so far up your ass you missed the point,
which was that if he wants to experiment then it's really not at all
helpful for you, or anyone, to demean him.

His problem is that he keeps burning out parts, and what he asked for
was help to fix that, not blanket condemnations of his machine and his
desire to get it to work.

JF
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On Sat, 17 Jan 2009 08:25:11 +0000, Eeyore
wrote:



mark krawczuk wrote:

hi, i dont think anything interesting is a waste of time


Yes, plenty are. Such as things that are known NOT to work.


---
Sloman is known not to work and he's interesting sometimes.

JF
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On Sat, 17 Jan 2009 08:30:05 +0000, Eeyore
wrote:



John Larkin wrote:

John Fields wrote:
"mark krawczuk" wrote:
"John Larkin" wrote

This sounds like one of those automotive Brown's gas things, in which
case the whole thing is a waste of time and silicon.

hi, i dont think anything interesting is a waste of time .
wether people like you dont like it , well tough , you can NEVER TELL
where this sort of experementing will take you , without experimenting ,
we would have nothing.

---
But, Mark, you just don't understand.

If Mr. Larkin says it's a waste of time and silicon, then regardless of
whether anyone wants to experiment and find out _why_ , for themselves,
they really shouldn't.


OK, alternator/battery drives DC-120VAC converter, which drives
transformer-rectifier DC supply, then high-voltage flyback converter,
which drives electrolyzer to make hydrogen+oxygen gas bubbles, which
are injected into the engine intake to make more energy than it took
to drive the alternator. Run your car on water!

And you don't see anything wrong with the thermodynamics of this?


Fields isn't as smart as he makes himself out to be.


---
How would _you_ know?

JF
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On Sat, 17 Jan 2009 07:39:29 -0800, Admin wrote:

On 2009-01-17 00:28:26 -0800, Eeyore
said:



Admin wrote:

Buy the way, I replaced the wimpy cap with a 330 uF 200V cap but I am
still frying Mosfets. They last longer but eventually the die.


Good, it'll teach you to stop trying to mess with the laws of physics.

Graham


Did you think through that statement?


---
Graham's reactions are usually knee-jerk, with an emphasis on the
latter.


JF
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On Sat, 17 Jan 2009 09:50:08 -0800, Archimedes' Lever
wrote:

On Sat, 17 Jan 2009 08:30:05 +0000, Eeyore
wrote:



John Larkin wrote:

John Fields wrote:
"mark krawczuk" wrote:
"John Larkin" wrote

This sounds like one of those automotive Brown's gas things, in which
case the whole thing is a waste of time and silicon.

hi, i dont think anything interesting is a waste of time .
wether people like you dont like it , well tough , you can NEVER TELL
where this sort of experementing will take you , without experimenting ,
we would have nothing.

---
But, Mark, you just don't understand.

If Mr. Larkin says it's a waste of time and silicon, then regardless of
whether anyone wants to experiment and find out _why_ , for themselves,
they really shouldn't.

OK, alternator/battery drives DC-120VAC converter, which drives
transformer-rectifier DC supply, then high-voltage flyback converter,
which drives electrolyzer to make hydrogen+oxygen gas bubbles, which
are injected into the engine intake to make more energy than it took
to drive the alternator. Run your car on water!

And you don't see anything wrong with the thermodynamics of this?


Fields isn't as smart as he makes himself out to be.

Graham


Don't **** yourself, you senile ass.


---
Too late...

JF


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On Sun, 18 Jan 2009 08:31:13 -0600, John Fields
wrote:

On Fri, 16 Jan 2009 22:19:02 -0800, John Larkin
wrote:

On Fri, 16 Jan 2009 19:42:06 -0600, John Fields
wrote:

On Fri, 16 Jan 2009 18:29:24 +1030, "mark krawczuk"
wrote:




"John Larkin" wrote in message
m...

This sounds like one of those automotive Brown's gas things, in which
case the whole thing is a waste of time and silicon.

hi, i dont think anything interesting is a waste of time .
wether people like you dont like it , well tough , you can NEVER TELL
where this sort of experementing will take you , without experimenting ,
we would have nothing.

---
But, Mark, you just don't understand.

If Mr. Larkin says it's a waste of time and silicon, then regardless of
whether anyone wants to experiment and find out _why_ , for themselves,
they really shouldn't.


OK, alternator/battery drives DC-120VAC converter, which drives
transformer-rectifier DC supply, then high-voltage flyback converter,
which drives electrolyzer to make hydrogen+oxygen gas bubbles, which
are injected into the engine intake to make more energy than it took
to drive the alternator. Run your car on water!

And you don't see anything wrong with the thermodynamics of this?


---
As usual, you've got your head so far up your ass you missed the point,
which was that if he wants to experiment then it's really not at all
helpful for you, or anyone, to demean him.

His problem is that he keeps burning out parts, and what he asked for
was help to fix that, not blanket condemnations of his machine and his
desire to get it to work.

JF


I did comment on some gate drive issues, things that are potential
hazards and that certainly cost efficiency. And I suggested that
high-voltage electrolysis is very inefficient. I will note that you
made no efforts to help. Your posts in this thread are 100%
content-free insults.

But as an engineer, I always evaluate, numerically, whether a system
can work, and this one can't. There's no point in experimenting to try
to violate conservation of energy.

If he is doing the automotive Brown's gas thing, of course it can't
work; the energy waste is even worse with the use of high voltage to
electrolyze water. Do you disagree?

John


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On Mon, 12 Jan 2009 23:00:01 -0800, Archimedes' Lever
wrote:

On Mon, 12 Jan 2009 20:40:10 -0800, John Larkin
wrote:

On Mon, 12 Jan 2009 19:33:48 -0800, Archimedes' Lever
wrote:

On Sun, 11 Jan 2009 13:02:45 -0800, John Larkin
wrote:

What's it all for, anyhow? Electrolysis is absurdly inefficient at
high voltages.

John

We made an Electrophoresis supply that was HV. Drove a similar type
loading... banks of EP wells.


I think he's trying to make Brown's gas to inject into a car engine.
Silly.

John



Hmmm. Brown must have been another one of those repressed wonder
inventions from the sixties that the auto makers bought up and hid away
from us, 'eh. :-]


The conspiracy theories date back to at least WWII. Google "brown's
gas" for some really weird free-energy pseudoscience
oil-company-conspiracy stuff. And some really, really bad schematics.

John


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On Sun, 18 Jan 2009 11:33:17 -0800, John Larkin
wrote:

On Mon, 12 Jan 2009 23:00:01 -0800, Archimedes' Lever
wrote:

On Mon, 12 Jan 2009 20:40:10 -0800, John Larkin
wrote:

On Mon, 12 Jan 2009 19:33:48 -0800, Archimedes' Lever
wrote:

On Sun, 11 Jan 2009 13:02:45 -0800, John Larkin
wrote:

What's it all for, anyhow? Electrolysis is absurdly inefficient at
high voltages.

John

We made an Electrophoresis supply that was HV. Drove a similar type
loading... banks of EP wells.

I think he's trying to make Brown's gas to inject into a car engine.
Silly.

John



Hmmm. Brown must have been another one of those repressed wonder
inventions from the sixties that the auto makers bought up and hid away
from us, 'eh. :-]


The conspiracy theories date back to at least WWII. Google "brown's
gas" for some really weird free-energy pseudoscience
oil-company-conspiracy stuff. And some really, really bad schematics.

John


You mean you can't get something for nothing? The Democrats are in
for a really big surprise ;-)

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

Liberals are so cute. *Dumb as a box of rocks, but cute.
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On 2009-01-17 21:56:27 -0800, "BobW"
said:


"Admin" wrote in message
news:2009011720334016807-sowhati@comcastnet...
On 2009-01-17 14:23:39 -0800, "Michael A. Terrell"
said:


Eeyore wrote:

mark krawczuk wrote:

hi, i dont think anything interesting is a waste of time

Yes, plenty are. Such as things that are known NOT to work.

Graham


Like old donkeys?


Well, it is working now. The 120 V zener was faulty.
Thanks to all the helpers. Pie in the faces of the negative nay-sayers.
See ya.
--


Congrats! That would make sense.

I'd still like to see how it works with that zener shorted out.

Bob


Bob,

I removed both diodes. With the zener shorted I still got problems: the
current was extremely low. So I removed both.
--

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On 2009-01-18 13:25:23 -0800, "BobW"
said:


"Admin" wrote in message
news:2009011813063650073-sowhati@comcastnet...
On 2009-01-17 21:56:27 -0800, "BobW"
said:


"Admin" wrote in message
news:2009011720334016807-sowhati@comcastnet...
On 2009-01-17 14:23:39 -0800, "Michael A. Terrell"
said:


Eeyore wrote:

mark krawczuk wrote:

hi, i dont think anything interesting is a waste of time

Yes, plenty are. Such as things that are known NOT to work.

Graham


Like old donkeys?

Well, it is working now. The 120 V zener was faulty.
Thanks to all the helpers. Pie in the faces of the negative nay-sayers.
See ya.
--

Congrats! That would make sense.

I'd still like to see how it works with that zener shorted out.

Bob


Bob,

I removed both diodes. With the zener shorted I still got problems: the
current was extremely low. So I removed both.
--


Hmmmm. I'm confused. The purpose of the top diode(s) is to give a path for
the stored inductor (transformer) energy when the fet is turned off in such
a way that the fet's drain voltage doesn't get too high.

Can you post the circuit again as it is (i.e. working)?

Bob


Here you go:


--
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John Fields wrote:

Eeyore wrote:
John Larkin wrote:
John Fields wrote:
"mark krawczuk" wrote:
"John Larkin" wrote

This sounds like one of those automotive Brown's gas things, in which
case the whole thing is a waste of time and silicon.

hi, i dont think anything interesting is a waste of time .
wether people like you dont like it , well tough , you can NEVER TELL
where this sort of experementing will take you , without experimenting ,
we would have nothing.

---
But, Mark, you just don't understand.

If Mr. Larkin says it's a waste of time and silicon, then regardless of
whether anyone wants to experiment and find out _why_ , for themselves,
they really shouldn't.

OK, alternator/battery drives DC-120VAC converter, which drives
transformer-rectifier DC supply, then high-voltage flyback converter,
which drives electrolyzer to make hydrogen+oxygen gas bubbles, which
are injected into the engine intake to make more energy than it took
to drive the alternator. Run your car on water!

And you don't see anything wrong with the thermodynamics of this?


Fields isn't as smart as he makes himself out to be.


---
How would _you_ know?


By observation.

Graham

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