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Default What is wrong here ?



** See pics of AC supply adaptor:

Something here is not kosher.



...... Phil






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On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 12:29:02 +1000, "Phil Allison"
wrote:



** See pics of AC supply adaptor:

Something here is not kosher.



..... Phil



Well, aside from not making any sense at all, it looks fine to me.

John

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On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 20:49:09 -0700, donald wrote:

Phil Allison wrote:
** See pics of AC supply adaptor:

Something here is not kosher.



..... Phil



It that the little switch on the back is not clearly labeled ???


No ground slot on the output side. No safety ground on the input side
either; that's a plastic pin. I guess this transformer came with a big
box of plug adapters, but why the fancy multiformat output jack if you're
going to use an adapter anyway?
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"Stephen J. Rush"
Phil Allison wrote:

No ground slot on the output side. No safety ground on the input side
either; that's a plastic pin.



** So - it can only be used with a two pin appliance.

Consistent with the double square symbol.




..... Phil


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Phil Allison wrote:
** See pics of AC supply adaptor:

Something here is not kosher.



..... Phil



It that the little switch on the back is not clearly labeled ???


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"Phil Allison" wrote in message
...

"Stephen J. Rush"
Phil Allison wrote:

No ground slot on the output side. No safety ground on the input side
either; that's a plastic pin.



** So - it can only be used with a two pin appliance.

Consistent with the double square symbol.

I am not familiar with the symbols on the front side of the unit. Not used
here in the USA (afik). Would you please explain them?
Tnx - Oppie

** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **
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"oppie"


I am not familiar with the symbols on the front side of the unit. Not used
here in the USA (afik). Would you please explain them?



** See this and look under " Transformer symbols".

http://en.noratel.ezpublish.no/content/view/full/125


More dopey, confusing symbols than you would ever believe.




...... Phil



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Phil Allison wrote:

** See pics of AC supply adaptor:

Something here is not kosher.

..... Phil


Does it really step up and down ? At 50/60Hz ? Does it change the
frequency too ? !!!

Graham

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"Stephen J. Rush" wrote:

No ground slot on the output side. No safety ground on the input side
either; that's a plastic pin.


It's marked 'double insulated' so it won't have an earth.

Graham

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oppie wrote:

I am not familiar with the symbols on the front side of the unit. Not used
here in the USA (afik). Would you please explain them?


They are INTERNATIONAL symbols. You US guys really need to catch up.

http://en.noratel.ezpublish.no/conte...%2016-5eng.pdf

(from Phil's link)

Graham



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Phil Allison wrote:

** See pics of AC supply adaptor:

Something here is not kosher.

..... Phil


Well, it looks a bit tiny for 70W. More than a bit in fact. maybe they
meant 7W ?

Graham

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"Eeysore"
Phil Allison wrote:


Something here is not kosher.



Well, it looks a bit tiny for 70W. More than a bit in fact. maybe they
meant 7W ?



** You are getting warm .....



........ Phil



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"Eeyore" wrote in message
...


oppie wrote:

I am not familiar with the symbols on the front side of the unit. Not
used
here in the USA (afik). Would you please explain them?


They are INTERNATIONAL symbols. You US guys really need to catch up.

http://en.noratel.ezpublish.no/conte...%2016-5eng.pdf

(from Phil's link)

Graham


....Which is precisely why I asked. I want to appear edumacated to my
peers...

Seriously though, Thanks. I'll have to deal with these specs at some point
as we export worldwide.
Oppie

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"Phil Allison" wrote in message
...

"Eeysore"
Phil Allison wrote:


Something here is not kosher.



Well, it looks a bit tiny for 70W. More than a bit in fact. maybe they
meant 7W ?



** You are getting warm .....

Could be 70W if it was an autotransformer - no isolation and no earth
contact

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"Oppie" wrote in message
...


"Phil Allison" wrote in message
...

"Eeysore"
Phil Allison wrote:


Something here is not kosher.



Well, it looks a bit tiny for 70W. More than a bit in fact. maybe they
meant 7W ?



** You are getting warm .....

Could be 70W if it was an autotransformer - no isolation and no earth
contact


I take that back - just read the symbol directory that Phil listed -
From the pictu
Double Insulated
Safety **Isolating** transformer - so it couldn't be an autotransformer.
I can not match up the 110C symbol. Is this a thermal overload fuse rating?
Last symbol appears to be for 'Indoor Use Only' though it is not listed on
the Noratel list.


** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **


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On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 12:29:02 +1000, the renowned "Phil Allison"
wrote:



** See pics of AC supply adaptor:

Something here is not kosher.



..... Phil


An electronic travel adapter. Offhand I don't see anything wrong with
it. What's that "House" symbol mean?

It doesn't carry any agency certification marks, but that's typical
for this class of product, which lives in kind of a legal grey zone.
Typically they are sold in country "A" with a warning that they are
not to be used in country "A". They are then temporarily imported into
country "B" by a tourist (skirting any laws which may prohibit import
of unapproved devices) and plugged in (skirting laws which may
prohibit attaching unapproved devices to the mains). And if it kills
someone it will be in country "B", not the country of sale.

Anyway, I'd guess it to be a "modifed sine wave" inverter with a
switchable voltage doubler front end, sort of like a combination of
automotive inverter with a PC power supply front end. Looks about the
right size for 60W.


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com
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"Spehro Pefhany"
"Phil Allison"

** See pics of AC supply adaptor:

Something here is not kosher.


An electronic travel adapter. Offhand I don't see anything wrong with
it. What's that "House" symbol mean?



** Indicates suitable for indoor use only .


It doesn't carry any agency certification marks, but that's typical
for this class of product, which lives in kind of a legal grey zone.
Typically they are sold in country "A" with a warning that they are
not to be used in country "A". They are then temporarily imported into
country "B" by a tourist (skirting any laws which may prohibit import
of unapproved devices) and plugged in (skirting laws which may
prohibit attaching unapproved devices to the mains). And if it kills
someone it will be in country "B", not the country of sale.



** OK - so you have come across these non-approved and un-approvable piles
of junk before.

This one is made in Hong Kong.


Anyway, I'd guess it to be a "modifed sine wave" inverter with a
switchable voltage doubler front end, sort of like a combination of
automotive inverter with a PC power supply front end. Looks about the
right size for 60W.



** No way - that would be ridiculously expensive compared to a simple
transformer.



...... Phil





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On Tue, 1 Jul 2008 01:37:06 +1000, the renowned "Phil Allison"
wrote:


"Spehro Pefhany"
"Phil Allison"

** See pics of AC supply adaptor:

Something here is not kosher.


An electronic travel adapter. Offhand I don't see anything wrong with
it. What's that "House" symbol mean?



** Indicates suitable for indoor use only .


It doesn't carry any agency certification marks, but that's typical
for this class of product, which lives in kind of a legal grey zone.
Typically they are sold in country "A" with a warning that they are
not to be used in country "A". They are then temporarily imported into
country "B" by a tourist (skirting any laws which may prohibit import
of unapproved devices) and plugged in (skirting laws which may
prohibit attaching unapproved devices to the mains). And if it kills
someone it will be in country "B", not the country of sale.



** OK - so you have come across these non-approved and un-approvable piles
of junk before.

This one is made in Hong Kong.


Anyway, I'd guess it to be a "modifed sine wave" inverter with a
switchable voltage doubler front end, sort of like a combination of
automotive inverter with a PC power supply front end. Looks about the
right size for 60W.



** No way - that would be ridiculously expensive compared to a simple
transformer.



..... Phil


Yeah, you're right. It would be nice to have something light though.

Fortunately, most stuff is universal input these days so you just need
a plug adapter. It's been at least 5 years since I've brought a
transformer adapter along.



Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com
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Oppie wrote:

"Eeyore" wrote
oppie wrote:

I am not familiar with the symbols on the front side of the unit. Not
used
here in the USA (afik). Would you please explain them?


They are INTERNATIONAL symbols. You US guys really need to catch up.

http://en.noratel.ezpublish.no/conte...%2016-5eng.pdf

(from Phil's link)



...Which is precisely why I asked. I want to appear edumacated to my
peers...

Seriously though, Thanks. I'll have to deal with these specs at some point
as we export worldwide.


I think you left it about 20 years too late but full marks for taking it onboard.

I FULLY recommend the IEC standards. You have to get into a kind of 'mindset' to really
understand them but I had a couple of excellent tutors and when you do, they make great sense
and provide excellent advice.

Graham

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Oppie wrote:

"Oppie" wrote
"Phil Allison" wrote
"Eeysore"
Phil Allison wrote:

Something here is not kosher.

Well, it looks a bit tiny for 70W. More than a bit in fact. maybe they
meant 7W ?


** You are getting warm .....

Could be 70W if it was an autotransformer - no isolation and no earth
contact


I take that back - just read the symbol directory that Phil listed -
From the pictu
Double Insulated
Safety **Isolating** transformer - so it couldn't be an autotransformer.


Indeed. So 'dual bobbin' (typically) construction, with 6-8mm creepage
distance.


I can not match up the 110C symbol. Is this a thermal overload fuse rating?


IIRC, yes that's in internal non resettable fuse (without consulting the book).



Last symbol appears to be for 'Indoor Use Only' though it is not listed on
the Noratel list.


Yes, that's correct. Indoor use only.

HAH !

There's no amperage rating. I'm sure that *should* be there.

Graham



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Phil Allison wrote:

** See pics of AC supply adaptor:

Something here is not kosher.

..... Phil


Aside from my other comments .....

I'd like to see the clearance / creepage distances for that switch. Can
they seriously meet Class II ?

Graham

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"Eeyore" wrote in message


I FULLY recommend the IEC standards. You have to get into a kind of
'mindset' to really understand them but I had a couple of excellent
tutors and when you do, they make great sense and provide excellent
advice.


That's probably similar to the mindset you need to be ruled from Brussels.


--

Reply in group, but if emailing add another
zero, and remove the last word.


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"Eeyore" wrote in message
...
snip

HAH !

There's no amperage rating. I'm sure that *should* be there.

Graham


You're most likely correct. the only spec for power is 70W. Whether this is
used as step-up or step down depends on what currents are where....
Also, transformer devices are listed by Volt*Amps which is always equal to
or higher than the power in Watts.
Oppie

** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **
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Tom Del Rosso wrote:

"Eeyore" wrote

I FULLY recommend the IEC standards. You have to get into a kind of
'mindset' to really understand them but I had a couple of excellent
tutors and when you do, they make great sense and provide excellent
advice.


That's probably similar to the mindset you need to be ruled from Brussels.


MORON.

Meet a few people who sit on IEC committees before babbling that claptrap.

Our very own John Woodgate is/was one of them. Sure, they don't always get it
100% right but by God they get it mostly right.

Graham

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Eeyore wrote:

Phil Allison wrote:

** See pics of AC supply adaptor:

Something here is not kosher.

..... Phil


Aside from my other comments .....

I'd like to see the clearance / creepage distances for that switch. Can
they seriously meet Class II ?


See previous question regarding switching pri and sec side circuits
simulataneously.

Graham



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On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 22:17:12 +0100, Eeyore
wrote:



Tom Del Rosso wrote:

"Eeyore" wrote

I FULLY recommend the IEC standards. You have to get into a kind of
'mindset' to really understand them but I had a couple of excellent
tutors and when you do, they make great sense and provide excellent
advice.


That's probably similar to the mindset you need to be ruled from Brussels.


MORON.

Meet a few people who sit on IEC committees before babbling that claptrap.

Our very own John Woodgate is/was one of them. Sure, they don't always get it
100% right but by God they get it mostly right.


---
Geez...

If it was by the almighty then they should have gotten it 100% right
the first time out...

JF
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On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 22:17:12 +0100, Eeyore
wrote:



Tom Del Rosso wrote:

"Eeyore" wrote

I FULLY recommend the IEC standards. You have to get into a kind of
'mindset' to really understand them but I had a couple of excellent
tutors and when you do, they make great sense and provide excellent
advice.


That's probably similar to the mindset you need to be ruled from Brussels.


MORON.

Meet a few people who sit on IEC committees before babbling that claptrap.

Our very own John Woodgate is/was one of them. Sure, they don't always get it
100% right but by God they get it mostly right.


---
"Gott mit uns"?

JF
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"Eeyore" wrote in message

Tom Del Rosso wrote:

"Eeyore" wrote

I FULLY recommend the IEC standards. You have to get into a kind
of 'mindset' to really understand them but I had a couple of
excellent tutors and when you do, they make great sense and
provide excellent advice.


That's probably similar to the mindset you need to be ruled from
Brussels.


MORON.

Meet a few people who sit on IEC committees before babbling that
claptrap.

Our very own John Woodgate is/was one of them. Sure, they don't
always get it 100% right but by God they get it mostly right.


Always such hyperbole. I never claimed that you were a moron in the general
sense. Only in politics.


--

Reply in group, but if emailing add another
zero, and remove the last word.


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John Fields wrote:

Eeyore wrote:
Tom Del Rosso wrote:
"Eeyore" wrote

I FULLY recommend the IEC standards. You have to get into a kind of
'mindset' to really understand them but I had a couple of excellent
tutors and when you do, they make great sense and provide excellent
advice.

That's probably similar to the mindset you need to be ruled from Brussels.


MORON.

Meet a few people who sit on IEC committees before babbling that claptrap.

Our very own John Woodgate is/was one of them. Sure, they don't always get it
100% right but by God they get it mostly right.

---
"Gott mit uns"?


Your point is ?

UL is ****. Stuff it.

Graham

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Tom Del Rosso wrote:

"Eeyore" wrote
Tom Del Rosso wrote:
"Eeyore" wrote

I FULLY recommend the IEC standards. You have to get into a kind
of 'mindset' to really understand them but I had a couple of
excellent tutors and when you do, they make great sense and
provide excellent advice.

That's probably similar to the mindset you need to be ruled from
Brussels.


MORON.

Meet a few people who sit on IEC committees before babbling that
claptrap.

Our very own John Woodgate is/was one of them. Sure, they don't
always get it 100% right but by God they get it mostly right.


Always such hyperbole. I never claimed that you were a moron in the general
sense. Only in politics.


I'm pleased to see you openly criticise John Woodgate.

I hope beelzebub treats you as kindly.

Graham



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"Eeysore the Nut Case Charlatan "
Tom Del Rosso wrote:

That's probably similar to the mindset you need to be ruled from
Brussels.


MORON.

Meet a few people who sit on IEC committees before babbling that claptrap.



** Not exactly a practical suggestion - as such folk generally hide their
identities and are uncontactable.

For obvious reasons.


Our very own John Woodgate is/was one of them.



** My * gravest concerns * about the sort of people who aspire sit on
standard committees were all confirmed by Mr Woodgate.





...... Phil





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"Eeysore"
Phil Allison wrote:

** See pics of AC supply adaptor:

Something here is not kosher.

Aside from my other comments .....

I'd like to see the clearance / creepage distances for that switch. Can
they seriously meet Class II ?



** Not an issue, as input and output circuits are both at mains voltages.

There is a serious safety issue with this device.



..... Phil



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On Tue, 1 Jul 2008 11:07:11 +1000, the renowned "Phil Allison"
wrote:


"Eeysore"
Phil Allison wrote:

** See pics of AC supply adaptor:

Something here is not kosher.

Aside from my other comments .....

I'd like to see the clearance / creepage distances for that switch. Can
they seriously meet Class II ?



** Not an issue, as input and output circuits are both at mains voltages.

There is a serious safety issue with this device.

.... Phil


Only one issue?

Flammable plastic?

Non-FRP plastic melted through leaving a gaping hole and exposing
mains potential?

LED at mains potential without adequate insulation/creepage?




Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com
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Phil Allison wrote:

"Eeysore the Nut Case Charlatan "
Tom Del Rosso wrote:

That's probably similar to the mindset you need to be ruled from
Brussels.


MORON.

Meet a few people who sit on IEC committees before babbling that claptrap.


** Not exactly a practical suggestion - as such folk generally hide their
identities and are uncontactable.

For obvious reasons.

Our very own John Woodgate is/was one of them.


** My * gravest concerns * about the sort of people who aspire sit on
standard committees were all confirmed by Mr Woodgate.


Sure, but at least he lets you know what kind of nutcases they are ! And did he
let let some some corkers let fly !

Graham

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Phil Allison wrote:

"Eeysore"
Phil Allison wrote:

** See pics of AC supply adaptor:

Something here is not kosher.

Aside from my other comments .....

I'd like to see the clearance / creepage distances for that switch. Can
they seriously meet Class II ?


** Not an issue, as input and output circuits are both at mains voltages.

There is a serious safety issue with this device.


And absence of adequate creepage/clearance distance would be one

I take it it *doesn't* do really 70W ? Or *is it* an autotransformer ?

Graham



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Spehro Pefhany wrote:

Flammable plastic?


Nah, not an IEC issue per se. Unlike ULVx. IEC's more interested in temperature
rise.


Graham

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"Spehro Pefhany"
"Phil Allison"

** See pics of AC supply adaptor:

Something here is not kosher.

Aside from my other comments .....

I'd like to see the clearance / creepage distances for that switch. Can
they seriously meet Class II ?


** Not an issue, as input and output circuits are both at mains voltages.

There is a serious safety issue with this device.


Only one issue?

Flammable plastic?

Non-FRP plastic melted through leaving a gaping hole and exposing
mains potential?

LED at mains potential without adequate insulation/creepage?



** I was not able to open the unit as it belonged to a customer.



-----------------------------------------------------------------

What is wrong is that it is * NOT * a safety isolation transformer.

It IS an AUTO-TRANSFORMER - falsely marked !!!!

------------------------------------------------------------------


The big clue is the power maker's rating of 70 watts - suspiciously high
for a unit so small.

The other clue is that a "safety isolation transformer " must not exceed 50
volts on the output side.

Similar size units which ARE mains isolation types have ratings of only 25
to 30 VA.

The 240 volt input measures 140 ohms ( room temp) and the output side 70
ohms and the neutral terminals are common.
So - at the rated 70 watt (should be VA ) load it will get very hot (
dissipation about 18 watts) and likely send the 105C thermal fuse open.

Wot a dangerous, horrible POS !!!!!!!!!!!!!

But easy to find on-line or eBay - I bet.

This the shonky maker's site:

http://www.goldenedge.com.hk/



...... Phil




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In message , Oppie
writes


"Eeyore" wrote in message
...
snip

HAH !

There's no amperage rating. I'm sure that *should* be there.

Graham


You're most likely correct. the only spec for power is 70W. Whether
this is used as step-up or step down depends on what currents are
where....
Also, transformer devices are listed by Volt*Amps which is always equal
to or higher than the power in Watts.
Oppie
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **


I don't think there's just a transformer in there. Isn't there a
switchmode voltage converter? I recall a friend running an American
vacuum cleaner from one of these devices. I couldn't believe it worked.
--
Ian
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On Tue, 1 Jul 2008 10:05:30 +0100, the renowned Ian Jackson
wrote:

In message , Oppie
writes


"Eeyore" wrote in message
...
snip

HAH !

There's no amperage rating. I'm sure that *should* be there.

Graham


You're most likely correct. the only spec for power is 70W. Whether
this is used as step-up or step down depends on what currents are
where....
Also, transformer devices are listed by Volt*Amps which is always equal
to or higher than the power in Watts.
Oppie
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **


I don't think there's just a transformer in there. Isn't there a
switchmode voltage converter? I recall a friend running an American
vacuum cleaner from one of these devices. I couldn't believe it worked.


Phil's got the thing in his hand. It should be pretty obvious from the
heft. See this "50W" unit:

http://www.luggagepoint.com/lpProduc...ac=2&zmap=2697

and this:

http://www.geekbro.com/index.cfm/hur...rce=GoogleBase


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com
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Default What is wrong here ?


"Eeyore" wrote in message
...


John Fields wrote:

Eeyore wrote:
Tom Del Rosso wrote:
"Eeyore" wrote

I FULLY recommend the IEC standards. You have to get into a kind of
'mindset' to really understand them but I had a couple of excellent
tutors and when you do, they make great sense and provide excellent
advice.

That's probably similar to the mindset you need to be ruled from
Brussels.

MORON.

Meet a few people who sit on IEC committees before babbling that
claptrap.

Our very own John Woodgate is/was one of them. Sure, they don't always
get it
100% right but by God they get it mostly right.

---
"Gott mit uns"?


Your point is ?

UL is ****. Stuff it.

Graham


When I used to repair monitors for a living, I noticed as a general
observation that the more safety certification labels a particular make had
on the back - the more likely it was to be prone to catching fire!

The UL label was never missing from the ones that actually did catch fire.


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