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#1
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What is wrong here ?
** See pics of AC supply adaptor: Something here is not kosher. ...... Phil |
#2
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What is wrong here ?
On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 12:29:02 +1000, "Phil Allison"
wrote: ** See pics of AC supply adaptor: Something here is not kosher. ..... Phil Well, aside from not making any sense at all, it looks fine to me. John |
#3
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What is wrong here ?
On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 20:49:09 -0700, donald wrote:
Phil Allison wrote: ** See pics of AC supply adaptor: Something here is not kosher. ..... Phil It that the little switch on the back is not clearly labeled ??? No ground slot on the output side. No safety ground on the input side either; that's a plastic pin. I guess this transformer came with a big box of plug adapters, but why the fancy multiformat output jack if you're going to use an adapter anyway? |
#4
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What is wrong here ?
"Stephen J. Rush" Phil Allison wrote: No ground slot on the output side. No safety ground on the input side either; that's a plastic pin. ** So - it can only be used with a two pin appliance. Consistent with the double square symbol. ..... Phil |
#5
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What is wrong here ?
Phil Allison wrote:
** See pics of AC supply adaptor: Something here is not kosher. ..... Phil It that the little switch on the back is not clearly labeled ??? |
#6
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What is wrong here ?
"Phil Allison" wrote in message ... "Stephen J. Rush" Phil Allison wrote: No ground slot on the output side. No safety ground on the input side either; that's a plastic pin. ** So - it can only be used with a two pin appliance. Consistent with the double square symbol. I am not familiar with the symbols on the front side of the unit. Not used here in the USA (afik). Would you please explain them? Tnx - Oppie ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** |
#7
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What is wrong here ?
"oppie" I am not familiar with the symbols on the front side of the unit. Not used here in the USA (afik). Would you please explain them? ** See this and look under " Transformer symbols". http://en.noratel.ezpublish.no/content/view/full/125 More dopey, confusing symbols than you would ever believe. ...... Phil |
#8
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What is wrong here ?
Phil Allison wrote: ** See pics of AC supply adaptor: Something here is not kosher. ..... Phil Does it really step up and down ? At 50/60Hz ? Does it change the frequency too ? !!! Graham |
#9
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What is wrong here ?
"Stephen J. Rush" wrote: No ground slot on the output side. No safety ground on the input side either; that's a plastic pin. It's marked 'double insulated' so it won't have an earth. Graham |
#10
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What is wrong here ?
oppie wrote: I am not familiar with the symbols on the front side of the unit. Not used here in the USA (afik). Would you please explain them? They are INTERNATIONAL symbols. You US guys really need to catch up. http://en.noratel.ezpublish.no/conte...%2016-5eng.pdf (from Phil's link) Graham |
#11
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What is wrong here ?
Phil Allison wrote: ** See pics of AC supply adaptor: Something here is not kosher. ..... Phil Well, it looks a bit tiny for 70W. More than a bit in fact. maybe they meant 7W ? Graham |
#12
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What is wrong here ?
"Eeysore" Phil Allison wrote: Something here is not kosher. Well, it looks a bit tiny for 70W. More than a bit in fact. maybe they meant 7W ? ** You are getting warm ..... ........ Phil |
#13
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What is wrong here ?
"Eeyore" wrote in message ... oppie wrote: I am not familiar with the symbols on the front side of the unit. Not used here in the USA (afik). Would you please explain them? They are INTERNATIONAL symbols. You US guys really need to catch up. http://en.noratel.ezpublish.no/conte...%2016-5eng.pdf (from Phil's link) Graham ....Which is precisely why I asked. I want to appear edumacated to my peers... Seriously though, Thanks. I'll have to deal with these specs at some point as we export worldwide. Oppie |
#14
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What is wrong here ?
"Phil Allison" wrote in message ... "Eeysore" Phil Allison wrote: Something here is not kosher. Well, it looks a bit tiny for 70W. More than a bit in fact. maybe they meant 7W ? ** You are getting warm ..... Could be 70W if it was an autotransformer - no isolation and no earth contact |
#15
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What is wrong here ?
"Oppie" wrote in message ... "Phil Allison" wrote in message ... "Eeysore" Phil Allison wrote: Something here is not kosher. Well, it looks a bit tiny for 70W. More than a bit in fact. maybe they meant 7W ? ** You are getting warm ..... Could be 70W if it was an autotransformer - no isolation and no earth contact I take that back - just read the symbol directory that Phil listed - From the pictu Double Insulated Safety **Isolating** transformer - so it couldn't be an autotransformer. I can not match up the 110C symbol. Is this a thermal overload fuse rating? Last symbol appears to be for 'Indoor Use Only' though it is not listed on the Noratel list. ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** |
#16
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What is wrong here ?
On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 12:29:02 +1000, the renowned "Phil Allison"
wrote: ** See pics of AC supply adaptor: Something here is not kosher. ..... Phil An electronic travel adapter. Offhand I don't see anything wrong with it. What's that "House" symbol mean? It doesn't carry any agency certification marks, but that's typical for this class of product, which lives in kind of a legal grey zone. Typically they are sold in country "A" with a warning that they are not to be used in country "A". They are then temporarily imported into country "B" by a tourist (skirting any laws which may prohibit import of unapproved devices) and plugged in (skirting laws which may prohibit attaching unapproved devices to the mains). And if it kills someone it will be in country "B", not the country of sale. Anyway, I'd guess it to be a "modifed sine wave" inverter with a switchable voltage doubler front end, sort of like a combination of automotive inverter with a PC power supply front end. Looks about the right size for 60W. Best regards, Spehro Pefhany -- "it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward" Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com |
#17
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What is wrong here ?
"Spehro Pefhany" "Phil Allison" ** See pics of AC supply adaptor: Something here is not kosher. An electronic travel adapter. Offhand I don't see anything wrong with it. What's that "House" symbol mean? ** Indicates suitable for indoor use only . It doesn't carry any agency certification marks, but that's typical for this class of product, which lives in kind of a legal grey zone. Typically they are sold in country "A" with a warning that they are not to be used in country "A". They are then temporarily imported into country "B" by a tourist (skirting any laws which may prohibit import of unapproved devices) and plugged in (skirting laws which may prohibit attaching unapproved devices to the mains). And if it kills someone it will be in country "B", not the country of sale. ** OK - so you have come across these non-approved and un-approvable piles of junk before. This one is made in Hong Kong. Anyway, I'd guess it to be a "modifed sine wave" inverter with a switchable voltage doubler front end, sort of like a combination of automotive inverter with a PC power supply front end. Looks about the right size for 60W. ** No way - that would be ridiculously expensive compared to a simple transformer. ...... Phil |
#18
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What is wrong here ?
On Tue, 1 Jul 2008 01:37:06 +1000, the renowned "Phil Allison"
wrote: "Spehro Pefhany" "Phil Allison" ** See pics of AC supply adaptor: Something here is not kosher. An electronic travel adapter. Offhand I don't see anything wrong with it. What's that "House" symbol mean? ** Indicates suitable for indoor use only . It doesn't carry any agency certification marks, but that's typical for this class of product, which lives in kind of a legal grey zone. Typically they are sold in country "A" with a warning that they are not to be used in country "A". They are then temporarily imported into country "B" by a tourist (skirting any laws which may prohibit import of unapproved devices) and plugged in (skirting laws which may prohibit attaching unapproved devices to the mains). And if it kills someone it will be in country "B", not the country of sale. ** OK - so you have come across these non-approved and un-approvable piles of junk before. This one is made in Hong Kong. Anyway, I'd guess it to be a "modifed sine wave" inverter with a switchable voltage doubler front end, sort of like a combination of automotive inverter with a PC power supply front end. Looks about the right size for 60W. ** No way - that would be ridiculously expensive compared to a simple transformer. ..... Phil Yeah, you're right. It would be nice to have something light though. Fortunately, most stuff is universal input these days so you just need a plug adapter. It's been at least 5 years since I've brought a transformer adapter along. Best regards, Spehro Pefhany -- "it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward" Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com |
#19
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What is wrong here ?
Oppie wrote: "Eeyore" wrote oppie wrote: I am not familiar with the symbols on the front side of the unit. Not used here in the USA (afik). Would you please explain them? They are INTERNATIONAL symbols. You US guys really need to catch up. http://en.noratel.ezpublish.no/conte...%2016-5eng.pdf (from Phil's link) ...Which is precisely why I asked. I want to appear edumacated to my peers... Seriously though, Thanks. I'll have to deal with these specs at some point as we export worldwide. I think you left it about 20 years too late but full marks for taking it onboard. I FULLY recommend the IEC standards. You have to get into a kind of 'mindset' to really understand them but I had a couple of excellent tutors and when you do, they make great sense and provide excellent advice. Graham |
#20
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What is wrong here ?
Oppie wrote: "Oppie" wrote "Phil Allison" wrote "Eeysore" Phil Allison wrote: Something here is not kosher. Well, it looks a bit tiny for 70W. More than a bit in fact. maybe they meant 7W ? ** You are getting warm ..... Could be 70W if it was an autotransformer - no isolation and no earth contact I take that back - just read the symbol directory that Phil listed - From the pictu Double Insulated Safety **Isolating** transformer - so it couldn't be an autotransformer. Indeed. So 'dual bobbin' (typically) construction, with 6-8mm creepage distance. I can not match up the 110C symbol. Is this a thermal overload fuse rating? IIRC, yes that's in internal non resettable fuse (without consulting the book). Last symbol appears to be for 'Indoor Use Only' though it is not listed on the Noratel list. Yes, that's correct. Indoor use only. HAH ! There's no amperage rating. I'm sure that *should* be there. Graham |
#21
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What is wrong here ?
Phil Allison wrote: ** See pics of AC supply adaptor: Something here is not kosher. ..... Phil Aside from my other comments ..... I'd like to see the clearance / creepage distances for that switch. Can they seriously meet Class II ? Graham |
#22
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What is wrong here ?
"Eeyore" wrote in message I FULLY recommend the IEC standards. You have to get into a kind of 'mindset' to really understand them but I had a couple of excellent tutors and when you do, they make great sense and provide excellent advice. That's probably similar to the mindset you need to be ruled from Brussels. -- Reply in group, but if emailing add another zero, and remove the last word. |
#23
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What is wrong here ?
"Eeyore" wrote in message ... snip HAH ! There's no amperage rating. I'm sure that *should* be there. Graham You're most likely correct. the only spec for power is 70W. Whether this is used as step-up or step down depends on what currents are where.... Also, transformer devices are listed by Volt*Amps which is always equal to or higher than the power in Watts. Oppie ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** |
#24
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What is wrong here ?
Tom Del Rosso wrote: "Eeyore" wrote I FULLY recommend the IEC standards. You have to get into a kind of 'mindset' to really understand them but I had a couple of excellent tutors and when you do, they make great sense and provide excellent advice. That's probably similar to the mindset you need to be ruled from Brussels. MORON. Meet a few people who sit on IEC committees before babbling that claptrap. Our very own John Woodgate is/was one of them. Sure, they don't always get it 100% right but by God they get it mostly right. Graham |
#25
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What is wrong here ?
Eeyore wrote: Phil Allison wrote: ** See pics of AC supply adaptor: Something here is not kosher. ..... Phil Aside from my other comments ..... I'd like to see the clearance / creepage distances for that switch. Can they seriously meet Class II ? See previous question regarding switching pri and sec side circuits simulataneously. Graham |
#26
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What is wrong here ?
On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 22:17:12 +0100, Eeyore
wrote: Tom Del Rosso wrote: "Eeyore" wrote I FULLY recommend the IEC standards. You have to get into a kind of 'mindset' to really understand them but I had a couple of excellent tutors and when you do, they make great sense and provide excellent advice. That's probably similar to the mindset you need to be ruled from Brussels. MORON. Meet a few people who sit on IEC committees before babbling that claptrap. Our very own John Woodgate is/was one of them. Sure, they don't always get it 100% right but by God they get it mostly right. --- Geez... If it was by the almighty then they should have gotten it 100% right the first time out... JF |
#27
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What is wrong here ?
On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 22:17:12 +0100, Eeyore
wrote: Tom Del Rosso wrote: "Eeyore" wrote I FULLY recommend the IEC standards. You have to get into a kind of 'mindset' to really understand them but I had a couple of excellent tutors and when you do, they make great sense and provide excellent advice. That's probably similar to the mindset you need to be ruled from Brussels. MORON. Meet a few people who sit on IEC committees before babbling that claptrap. Our very own John Woodgate is/was one of them. Sure, they don't always get it 100% right but by God they get it mostly right. --- "Gott mit uns"? JF |
#28
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What is wrong here ?
"Eeyore" wrote in message Tom Del Rosso wrote: "Eeyore" wrote I FULLY recommend the IEC standards. You have to get into a kind of 'mindset' to really understand them but I had a couple of excellent tutors and when you do, they make great sense and provide excellent advice. That's probably similar to the mindset you need to be ruled from Brussels. MORON. Meet a few people who sit on IEC committees before babbling that claptrap. Our very own John Woodgate is/was one of them. Sure, they don't always get it 100% right but by God they get it mostly right. Always such hyperbole. I never claimed that you were a moron in the general sense. Only in politics. -- Reply in group, but if emailing add another zero, and remove the last word. |
#29
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What is wrong here ?
John Fields wrote: Eeyore wrote: Tom Del Rosso wrote: "Eeyore" wrote I FULLY recommend the IEC standards. You have to get into a kind of 'mindset' to really understand them but I had a couple of excellent tutors and when you do, they make great sense and provide excellent advice. That's probably similar to the mindset you need to be ruled from Brussels. MORON. Meet a few people who sit on IEC committees before babbling that claptrap. Our very own John Woodgate is/was one of them. Sure, they don't always get it 100% right but by God they get it mostly right. --- "Gott mit uns"? Your point is ? UL is ****. Stuff it. Graham |
#30
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What is wrong here ?
Tom Del Rosso wrote: "Eeyore" wrote Tom Del Rosso wrote: "Eeyore" wrote I FULLY recommend the IEC standards. You have to get into a kind of 'mindset' to really understand them but I had a couple of excellent tutors and when you do, they make great sense and provide excellent advice. That's probably similar to the mindset you need to be ruled from Brussels. MORON. Meet a few people who sit on IEC committees before babbling that claptrap. Our very own John Woodgate is/was one of them. Sure, they don't always get it 100% right but by God they get it mostly right. Always such hyperbole. I never claimed that you were a moron in the general sense. Only in politics. I'm pleased to see you openly criticise John Woodgate. I hope beelzebub treats you as kindly. Graham |
#31
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What is wrong here ?
"Eeysore the Nut Case Charlatan " Tom Del Rosso wrote: That's probably similar to the mindset you need to be ruled from Brussels. MORON. Meet a few people who sit on IEC committees before babbling that claptrap. ** Not exactly a practical suggestion - as such folk generally hide their identities and are uncontactable. For obvious reasons. Our very own John Woodgate is/was one of them. ** My * gravest concerns * about the sort of people who aspire sit on standard committees were all confirmed by Mr Woodgate. ...... Phil |
#32
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What is wrong here ?
"Eeysore" Phil Allison wrote: ** See pics of AC supply adaptor: Something here is not kosher. Aside from my other comments ..... I'd like to see the clearance / creepage distances for that switch. Can they seriously meet Class II ? ** Not an issue, as input and output circuits are both at mains voltages. There is a serious safety issue with this device. ..... Phil |
#33
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What is wrong here ?
On Tue, 1 Jul 2008 11:07:11 +1000, the renowned "Phil Allison"
wrote: "Eeysore" Phil Allison wrote: ** See pics of AC supply adaptor: Something here is not kosher. Aside from my other comments ..... I'd like to see the clearance / creepage distances for that switch. Can they seriously meet Class II ? ** Not an issue, as input and output circuits are both at mains voltages. There is a serious safety issue with this device. .... Phil Only one issue? Flammable plastic? Non-FRP plastic melted through leaving a gaping hole and exposing mains potential? LED at mains potential without adequate insulation/creepage? Best regards, Spehro Pefhany -- "it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward" Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com |
#34
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What is wrong here ?
Phil Allison wrote: "Eeysore the Nut Case Charlatan " Tom Del Rosso wrote: That's probably similar to the mindset you need to be ruled from Brussels. MORON. Meet a few people who sit on IEC committees before babbling that claptrap. ** Not exactly a practical suggestion - as such folk generally hide their identities and are uncontactable. For obvious reasons. Our very own John Woodgate is/was one of them. ** My * gravest concerns * about the sort of people who aspire sit on standard committees were all confirmed by Mr Woodgate. Sure, but at least he lets you know what kind of nutcases they are ! And did he let let some some corkers let fly ! Graham |
#35
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What is wrong here ?
Phil Allison wrote: "Eeysore" Phil Allison wrote: ** See pics of AC supply adaptor: Something here is not kosher. Aside from my other comments ..... I'd like to see the clearance / creepage distances for that switch. Can they seriously meet Class II ? ** Not an issue, as input and output circuits are both at mains voltages. There is a serious safety issue with this device. And absence of adequate creepage/clearance distance would be one I take it it *doesn't* do really 70W ? Or *is it* an autotransformer ? Graham |
#36
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What is wrong here ?
Spehro Pefhany wrote: Flammable plastic? Nah, not an IEC issue per se. Unlike ULVx. IEC's more interested in temperature rise. Graham |
#37
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What is wrong here ?
"Spehro Pefhany" "Phil Allison" ** See pics of AC supply adaptor: Something here is not kosher. Aside from my other comments ..... I'd like to see the clearance / creepage distances for that switch. Can they seriously meet Class II ? ** Not an issue, as input and output circuits are both at mains voltages. There is a serious safety issue with this device. Only one issue? Flammable plastic? Non-FRP plastic melted through leaving a gaping hole and exposing mains potential? LED at mains potential without adequate insulation/creepage? ** I was not able to open the unit as it belonged to a customer. ----------------------------------------------------------------- What is wrong is that it is * NOT * a safety isolation transformer. It IS an AUTO-TRANSFORMER - falsely marked !!!! ------------------------------------------------------------------ The big clue is the power maker's rating of 70 watts - suspiciously high for a unit so small. The other clue is that a "safety isolation transformer " must not exceed 50 volts on the output side. Similar size units which ARE mains isolation types have ratings of only 25 to 30 VA. The 240 volt input measures 140 ohms ( room temp) and the output side 70 ohms and the neutral terminals are common. So - at the rated 70 watt (should be VA ) load it will get very hot ( dissipation about 18 watts) and likely send the 105C thermal fuse open. Wot a dangerous, horrible POS !!!!!!!!!!!!! But easy to find on-line or eBay - I bet. This the shonky maker's site: http://www.goldenedge.com.hk/ ...... Phil |
#38
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What is wrong here ?
In message , Oppie
writes "Eeyore" wrote in message ... snip HAH ! There's no amperage rating. I'm sure that *should* be there. Graham You're most likely correct. the only spec for power is 70W. Whether this is used as step-up or step down depends on what currents are where.... Also, transformer devices are listed by Volt*Amps which is always equal to or higher than the power in Watts. Oppie ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** I don't think there's just a transformer in there. Isn't there a switchmode voltage converter? I recall a friend running an American vacuum cleaner from one of these devices. I couldn't believe it worked. -- Ian |
#39
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What is wrong here ?
On Tue, 1 Jul 2008 10:05:30 +0100, the renowned Ian Jackson
wrote: In message , Oppie writes "Eeyore" wrote in message ... snip HAH ! There's no amperage rating. I'm sure that *should* be there. Graham You're most likely correct. the only spec for power is 70W. Whether this is used as step-up or step down depends on what currents are where.... Also, transformer devices are listed by Volt*Amps which is always equal to or higher than the power in Watts. Oppie ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** I don't think there's just a transformer in there. Isn't there a switchmode voltage converter? I recall a friend running an American vacuum cleaner from one of these devices. I couldn't believe it worked. Phil's got the thing in his hand. It should be pretty obvious from the heft. See this "50W" unit: http://www.luggagepoint.com/lpProduc...ac=2&zmap=2697 and this: http://www.geekbro.com/index.cfm/hur...rce=GoogleBase Best regards, Spehro Pefhany -- "it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward" Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com |
#40
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What is wrong here ?
"Eeyore" wrote in message ... John Fields wrote: Eeyore wrote: Tom Del Rosso wrote: "Eeyore" wrote I FULLY recommend the IEC standards. You have to get into a kind of 'mindset' to really understand them but I had a couple of excellent tutors and when you do, they make great sense and provide excellent advice. That's probably similar to the mindset you need to be ruled from Brussels. MORON. Meet a few people who sit on IEC committees before babbling that claptrap. Our very own John Woodgate is/was one of them. Sure, they don't always get it 100% right but by God they get it mostly right. --- "Gott mit uns"? Your point is ? UL is ****. Stuff it. Graham When I used to repair monitors for a living, I noticed as a general observation that the more safety certification labels a particular make had on the back - the more likely it was to be prone to catching fire! The UL label was never missing from the ones that actually did catch fire. |
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