On 9/4/07 3:48 PM, in article ,
"Chuck Harris" wrote:

Don Bowey wrote:
On 9/4/07 10:47 AM, in article ,
"Chuck Harris" wrote:

Fred Bloggs wrote:

Michael A. Terrell wrote:
Fred Bloggs wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote:

On Tue, 04 Sep 2007 12:02:38 -0400, Fred Bloggs
wrote:

Fred, Why don't you move to France where you'll fit right in ?:-)
I think I will, I would enjoy living in France, at least there's some
semblance of culture there.


Be careful! A lot of that 'culture' is resistant to all known
antibiotics. On second thought: Enjoy yourself, while you last.


French medical science rivals the world, to this day they continue to
make great breakthroughs. Louis Pasteur is the Isaac Newton of modern
microbiology, a great genius.
Yeah, and the Arab world used to be the cradle of civilization.

Things change.

It still was. That didn't change

You really need to try and follow the thread.

Why, did I miss something important?


Start again at the part that reads "French medical...

I see I didn't miss something important.


FB uses Louis Pasteur as proof of France's current
greatness in medical science.

That is just like using the Arab world's centuries old expertise
in mathematics as proof of its current scholarly greatness.

True.

But the Arab world still was the cradle of civilization. What was can't be
taken away.

Eeyore wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote:


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/6976084.stm

...Jim Thompson


However, Americans work more hours per year than workers in most other developed
economies. This is why, measured as value added per hour worked, Norway has the
highest labour productivity level (US$ 37.99), followed by the United States
(US$ 35.63) and France (US$ 35.08).

http://www.ilo.org/global/About_the_...3976/index.htm


Might that by any chance change once the oil and natural gas reserves of
Norway are tapped out? Value addition is fairly easy as long as you can
pump the goods out of the North Sea.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com

Chuck Harris wrote:
Fred Bloggs wrote:



Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Fred Bloggs wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote:

On Tue, 04 Sep 2007 12:02:38 -0400, Fred Bloggs
wrote:

Fred, Why don't you move to France where you'll fit right in ?:-)


I think I will, I would enjoy living in France, at least there's some
semblance of culture there.




Be careful! A lot of that 'culture' is resistant to all known
antibiotics. On second thought: Enjoy yourself, while you last.



French medical science rivals the world, to this day they continue to
make great breakthroughs. Louis Pasteur is the Isaac Newton of modern
microbiology, a great genius.


Yeah, and the Arab world used to be the cradle of civilization.

Things change.

Pasteur comes to mind because of the Pasteur Institute, you might get a
clue. They rival any US medical research institution in productivity and
contributions to the state of the knowledge. France possesses some of
the most brilliant people in the world, and these are French ethnics and
not imports. There is no "used to be" to it.

Fred Bloggs wrote:



Chuck Harris wrote:

Fred Bloggs wrote:



Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Fred Bloggs wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote:

On Tue, 04 Sep 2007 12:02:38 -0400, Fred Bloggs
wrote:

Fred, Why don't you move to France where you'll fit right in ?:-)



I think I will, I would enjoy living in France, at least there's some
semblance of culture there.





Be careful! A lot of that 'culture' is resistant to all known
antibiotics. On second thought: Enjoy yourself, while you last.



French medical science rivals the world, to this day they continue to
make great breakthroughs. Louis Pasteur is the Isaac Newton of modern
microbiology, a great genius.



Yeah, and the Arab world used to be the cradle of civilization.

Things change.


Pasteur comes to mind because of the Pasteur Institute, you might get a
clue. They rival any US medical research institution in productivity and
contributions to the state of the knowledge. France possesses some of
the most brilliant people in the world, and these are French ethnics and
not imports. There is no "used to be" to it.


So, then, why is the cancer mortality rate higher there?

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com

On Tue, 04 Sep 2007 01:34:03 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:

Eeyore wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/6976084.stm

...Jim Thompson

" the US figure is boosted by Americans working more hours per
year than
workers in most developed countries."


That's why they are MORE productive, dumb ass.

Who was it who coined the phrase "Lies, damned lies, and statistics"?
(could be Mark Twain, Benjamin Disraeli or anyone of a number of
others)

How is labour productivity measured? It is simply the return on
capital for hours worked. That means that if the workforce is screwed
down by paying lower wages than in comparable situations in other
developed countries then the profitability, and hence labour
productivity, is greater.

The national unemployment rate as well as the demand for labour will
also have some say in the result. If there are a large number
unemployed looking for work, they will accept lower wages in order to
get a job, since there is a plentiful supply of labour to choose from.
Conversely, in a country with low unemployment and a high demand for
labour, workers can demand higher wages. Therefore the labour
productivity figure will be pushed backwards despite the fact that the
working hours are equal to their US counterparts.

The last figures I saw for US and Australian workers was that they
both worked around 1825 hrs per capita while the unemployment figure
in both countries is below 5%. However due to the massive Australian
resources boom skilled workers are scarce, so they are getting paid
more and the comparitive labour productivity figure will be lower than
for the US. It's just a case of supply and demand and the situation
may reverse in the next few years...

On 9/4/07 3:55 PM, in article ,
"Jim Thompson" wrote:

On Tue, 04 Sep 2007 15:39:19 -0700, Don Bowey
wrote:

On 9/4/07 2:53 PM, in article , "Michael A.
Terrell" wrote:

Don Bowey wrote:

On 9/3/07 10:34 PM, in article , "Michael A.
Terrell" wrote:

Eeyore wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/6976084.stm

...Jim Thompson

" the US figure is boosted by Americans working more hours per year than
workers in most developed countries."


That's why they are MORE productive, dumb ass.

Productivity is measured as output per hour.


I have heard multiple reports that American workers take less
vacation days, sick days and holidays compared to a lot of other
countries. fewer employees producing the same goods reduces overhead
for insurance, training, and other overhead costs thereby raising
productivity, no matter HOW you measure it.


Well, it increases production, but not necessarily productivity. For that
you must factor in time.

The definition does NOT have time in it other than ANNUAL!

...Jim Thompson

Well, Duh! GNP IS Annual and annual is sure time. It should include
*hours* (or whole and/or fractional people) in the calculations, as simple
head-count would distort, not production, but productivity of the workforce.

On 9/4/07 4:59 PM, in article
, "Joerg"
wrote:

Fred Bloggs wrote:



Chuck Harris wrote:

Fred Bloggs wrote:



Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Fred Bloggs wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote:

On Tue, 04 Sep 2007 12:02:38 -0400, Fred Bloggs
wrote:

Fred, Why don't you move to France where you'll fit right in ?:-)



I think I will, I would enjoy living in France, at least there's some
semblance of culture there.





Be careful! A lot of that 'culture' is resistant to all known
antibiotics. On second thought: Enjoy yourself, while you last.



French medical science rivals the world, to this day they continue to
make great breakthroughs. Louis Pasteur is the Isaac Newton of modern
microbiology, a great genius.



Yeah, and the Arab world used to be the cradle of civilization.

Things change.


Pasteur comes to mind because of the Pasteur Institute, you might get a
clue. They rival any US medical research institution in productivity and
contributions to the state of the knowledge. France possesses some of
the most brilliant people in the world, and these are French ethnics and
not imports. There is no "used to be" to it.


So, then, why is the cancer mortality rate higher there?

Rumor has it that they do not bathe often enough.

On Tue, 04 Sep 2007 18:33:42 -0700, Don Bowey
wrote:

On 9/4/07 3:55 PM, in article ,
"Jim Thompson" wrote:

On Tue, 04 Sep 2007 15:39:19 -0700, Don Bowey
wrote:

On 9/4/07 2:53 PM, in article , "Michael A.
Terrell" wrote:

Don Bowey wrote:

On 9/3/07 10:34 PM, in article , "Michael A.
Terrell" wrote:

Eeyore wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/6976084.stm

...Jim Thompson

" the US figure is boosted by Americans working more hours per year than
workers in most developed countries."


That's why they are MORE productive, dumb ass.

Productivity is measured as output per hour.


I have heard multiple reports that American workers take less
vacation days, sick days and holidays compared to a lot of other
countries. fewer employees producing the same goods reduces overhead
for insurance, training, and other overhead costs thereby raising
productivity, no matter HOW you measure it.


Well, it increases production, but not necessarily productivity. For that
you must factor in time.

The definition does NOT have time in it other than ANNUAL!

...Jim Thompson

Well, Duh! GNP IS Annual and annual is sure time. It should include
*hours* (or whole and/or fractional people) in the calculations, as simple
head-count would distort, not production, but productivity of the workforce.

Whether it should or not is not the point. The comparison was
published on an annual GDP/working-head basis.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

America: Land of the Free, Because of the Brave

On Tue, 04 Sep 2007 18:38:03 -0700, Don Bowey
wrote:

On 9/4/07 4:59 PM, in article
, "Joerg"
wrote:

[snip]

So, then, why is the cancer mortality rate higher there?

Rumor has it that they do not bathe often enough.

The thing that struck me most, on my very first trip into France, was
the smell.... like raw sewage running down the streets.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

America: Land of the Free, Because of the Brave

Don Bowey wrote:

You really need to try and follow the thread.

Why, did I miss something important?

What? In this thread? Hardly likely ;-)

Start again at the part that reads "French medical...

I see I didn't miss something important.

FB uses Louis Pasteur as proof of France's current
greatness in medical science.

That is just like using the Arab world's centuries old expertise
in mathematics as proof of its current scholarly greatness.

True.

But the Arab world still was the cradle of civilization. What was can't be
taken away.

Ok, I see. You believe that because I said they *used* to be the cradle of
civilization that I was taking away that accomplishment. I can see your point.

How about if I change the sentence to:

Yeah, and the Arab world used to be a cradle of civilization.

Things change.

Would you give me a passing grade?

Fred Bloggs wrote:


Chuck Harris wrote:
Fred Bloggs wrote:



Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Fred Bloggs wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote:

On Tue, 04 Sep 2007 12:02:38 -0400, Fred Bloggs
wrote:

Fred, Why don't you move to France where you'll fit right in ?:-)


I think I will, I would enjoy living in France, at least there's some
semblance of culture there.




Be careful! A lot of that 'culture' is resistant to all known
antibiotics. On second thought: Enjoy yourself, while you last.



French medical science rivals the world, to this day they continue to
make great breakthroughs. Louis Pasteur is the Isaac Newton of modern
microbiology, a great genius.


Yeah, and the Arab world used to be the cradle of civilization.

Things change.

Pasteur comes to mind because of the Pasteur Institute, you might get a
clue. They rival any US medical research institution in productivity and
contributions to the state of the knowledge.

That's ok, they have the Pasteur Institute, we have dozens equal or better.

France possesses some of
the most brilliant people in the world, and these are French ethnics and
not imports.

Yes, purebred people are important to any proper country... Europe has always
harbored that fantasy.

Fred Bloggs wrote:

Michael A. Terrell wrote:
Fred Bloggs wrote:
Jim Thompson wrote:
Fred Bloggs wrote:

Fred, Why don't you move to France where you'll fit right in ?:-)

I think I will, I would enjoy living in France, at least there's some
semblance of culture there.


Be careful! A lot of that 'culture' is resistant to all known
antibiotics. On second thought: Enjoy yourself, while you last.

French medical science rivals the world, to this day they continue to
make great breakthroughs. Louis Pasteur is the Isaac Newton of modern
microbiology, a great genius.

French engineering is pretty good too.

Graham

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote:

Fred Bloggs wrote
Michael A. Terrell wrote:
Fred Bloggs wrote:
Jim Thompson wrote:
Fred Bloggs wrote:

Fred, Why don't you move to France where you'll fit right in ?:-)

I think I will, I would enjoy living in France, at least there's some
semblance of culture there.

Be careful! A lot of that 'culture' is resistant to all known
antibiotics. On second thought: Enjoy yourself, while you last.


French medical science rivals the world, to this day they continue to
make great breakthroughs. Louis Pasteur is the Isaac Newton of modern
microbiology, a great genius.

What has he done lately, other than continue to decompose? He's been
dead over 100 years: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Pasteur so his
work isn't cutting edge.

For over a century, the Institut Pasteur has been at the forefront of the battle
against infectious disease. This worldwide biomedical research organization
based in Paris was the first to isolate HIV, the virus that causes AIDS, in
1983. Over the years, it has been responsible for breakthrough discoveries that
have enabled medical science to control such virulent diseases as diphtheria,
tetanus, tuberculosis, poliomyelitis, influenza, yellow fever and plague. Since
1908, eight Pasteur Institute scientists have been awarded the Nobel Prize for
medicine and physiology.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pasteur_Institute

Chuck Harris wrote:

Don Bowey wrote:
"Chuck Harris" wrote:
Fred Bloggs wrote:

French medical science rivals the world, to this day they continue to
make great breakthroughs. Louis Pasteur is the Isaac Newton of modern
microbiology, a great genius.
Yeah, and the Arab world used to be the cradle of civilization.

Things change.

It still was. That didn't change

You really need to try and follow the thread.

Start again at the part that reads "French medical...

FB uses Louis Pasteur as proof of France's current
greatness in medical science.

That is just like using the Arab world's centuries old expertise
in mathematics as proof of its current scholarly greatness.

Not at all.

The Pasteur Institute is still very active.

Graham

Joerg wrote:

Fred Bloggs wrote:
Michael A. Terrell wrote:
Fred Bloggs wrote:
Jim Thompson wrote:
Fred Bloggs wrote:

Fred, Why don't you move to France where you'll fit right in ?:-)

I think I will, I would enjoy living in France, at least there's some
semblance of culture there.


Be careful! A lot of that 'culture' is resistant to all known
antibiotics. On second thought: Enjoy yourself, while you last.

French medical science rivals the world, to this day they continue to
make great breakthroughs. Louis Pasteur is the Isaac Newton of modern
microbiology, a great genius.

Then why is the cancer mortality (for detected and treated cases) higher
in Europe than in the US? Example:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/272078.stm

Scroll to "Health spending and cancer survival rates".

Cherry picking data like that proves nothing.

Overall US mortality is higher than in Europe AIUI. Besides, 'Europe' now
includes a lot of former Waraw Pact countries that still have a lot of catching
up to do to get on par with the likes of Britain, France and Germany for
example.

Graham

Joerg wrote:

Eeyore wrote:
Jim Thompson wrote:


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/6976084.stm

...Jim Thompson

However, Americans work more hours per year than workers in most other developed
economies. This is why, measured as value added per hour worked, Norway has the
highest labour productivity level (US$ 37.99), followed by the United States
(US$ 35.63) and France (US$ 35.08).

http://www.ilo.org/global/About_the_...3976/index.htm


Might that by any chance change once the oil and natural gas reserves of
Norway are tapped out? Value addition is fairly easy as long as you can
pump the goods out of the North Sea.

It just goes to show how worthless such studies can be. You'll also find that some (notably small) countries have very
high per-capita GDPs based on their provision of high value services like banking. That doesn't seem to have much to do
with 'productivity' in the traditonal sense to me.

That the French are on par with USA intruiged me though. It kind of kills the popular US myth about 'socialism' being
anti-business.

Graham

Joerg wrote:

Fred Bloggs wrote:

Pasteur comes to mind because of the Pasteur Institute, you might get a
clue. They rival any US medical research institution in productivity and
contributions to the state of the knowledge. France possesses some of
the most brilliant people in the world, and these are French ethnics and
not imports. There is no "used to be" to it.

So, then, why is the cancer mortality rate higher there?

Why is overall US mortality higher than say, Iran ?
https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat.../2066rank.html

You might also ask what comparative incidence of cancer is. I doubt they're the
same.

Graham

Chuck Harris wrote:

Don Bowey wrote:

You really need to try and follow the thread.

Why, did I miss something important?

What? In this thread? Hardly likely ;-)

Start again at the part that reads "French medical...

I see I didn't miss something important.

FB uses Louis Pasteur as proof of France's current
greatness in medical science.

That is just like using the Arab world's centuries old expertise
in mathematics as proof of its current scholarly greatness.

True.

But the Arab world still was the cradle of civilization. What was can't be
taken away.

Ok, I see. You believe that because I said they *used* to be the cradle of
civilization that I was taking away that accomplishment. I can see your point.

How about if I change the sentence to:

Yeah, and the Arab world used to be a cradle of civilization.

"Used to be the cradle of civilisation" makes no sense.

Either it was or it wasn't. You can't change these things after the fact.


Things change.

Would you give me a passing grade?

You've missed the point entirely.

Graham

Chuck Harris wrote:

Yes, purebred people are important to any proper country... Europe has always
harbored that fantasy.

That's complete nonsense.

Americans are fabulously uneducated (about Europe too).

Graham

Eeyore wrote:

For over a century, the Institut Pasteur has been at the forefront of the battle
against infectious disease. This worldwide biomedical research organization
based in Paris was the first to isolate HIV, the virus that causes AIDS, in
1983. Over the years, it has been responsible for breakthrough discoveries that
have enabled medical science to control such virulent diseases as diphtheria,
tetanus, tuberculosis, poliomyelitis, influenza, yellow fever and plague. Since
1908, eight Pasteur Institute scientists have been awarded the Nobel Prize for
medicine and physiology.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pasteur_Institute


So what? The man Louis, is long dead and HE hasn't doesn't anything
in over a century. We could easily create the 'Brain Dead Donkey
Institute of Stupidity de Europe' to further stupidity after you die,
but YOU will no longer be bringing down the average intelligence in
Europe because the worms will be gagging as they eat your rotting
corpse.


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

Don Bowey wrote:

On 9/4/07 3:48 PM, in article ,
"Chuck Harris" wrote:

Don Bowey wrote:
On 9/4/07 10:47 AM, in article ,
"Chuck Harris" wrote:

Fred Bloggs wrote:

Michael A. Terrell wrote:
Fred Bloggs wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote:

On Tue, 04 Sep 2007 12:02:38 -0400, Fred Bloggs
wrote:

Fred, Why don't you move to France where you'll fit right in ?:-)
I think I will, I would enjoy living in France, at least there's some
semblance of culture there.


Be careful! A lot of that 'culture' is resistant to all known
antibiotics. On second thought: Enjoy yourself, while you last.


French medical science rivals the world, to this day they continue to
make great breakthroughs. Louis Pasteur is the Isaac Newton of modern
microbiology, a great genius.
Yeah, and the Arab world used to be the cradle of civilization.

Things change.

It still was. That didn't change

You really need to try and follow the thread.

Why, did I miss something important?


Start again at the part that reads "French medical...

I see I didn't miss something important.


FB uses Louis Pasteur as proof of France's current
greatness in medical science.

That is just like using the Arab world's centuries old expertise
in mathematics as proof of its current scholarly greatness.

True.

But the Arab world still was the cradle of civilization. What was can't be
taken away.



The Model T was the shining example of the production line
automobile, but haow many do you see on the road?


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

Jim Thompson wrote:

On Tue, 04 Sep 2007 18:38:03 -0700, Don Bowey
wrote:

On 9/4/07 4:59 PM, in article
, "Joerg"
wrote:

[snip]

So, then, why is the cancer mortality rate higher there?

Rumor has it that they do not bathe often enough.

The thing that struck me most, on my very first trip into France, was
the smell.... like raw sewage running down the streets.


That wasn't sewage, Eeyore was on holiday in France.


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

Chuck Harris wrote:

Fred Bloggs wrote:


Chuck Harris wrote:
Fred Bloggs wrote:



Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Fred Bloggs wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote:

On Tue, 04 Sep 2007 12:02:38 -0400, Fred Bloggs
wrote:

Fred, Why don't you move to France where you'll fit right in ?:-)


I think I will, I would enjoy living in France, at least there's some
semblance of culture there.




Be careful! A lot of that 'culture' is resistant to all known
antibiotics. On second thought: Enjoy yourself, while you last.



French medical science rivals the world, to this day they continue to
make great breakthroughs. Louis Pasteur is the Isaac Newton of modern
microbiology, a great genius.


Yeah, and the Arab world used to be the cradle of civilization.

Things change.

Pasteur comes to mind because of the Pasteur Institute, you might get a
clue. They rival any US medical research institution in productivity and
contributions to the state of the knowledge.

That's ok, they have the Pasteur Institute, we have dozens equal or better.

France possesses some of
the most brilliant people in the world, and these are French ethnics and
not imports.

Yes, purebred people are important to any proper country... Europe has always
harbored that fantasy.


Hitler would be proud.

--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

Chuck Harris wrote:
[snip]

You don't like their politics so you discredit the entire nation, its
people, culture, and contributions to civilization- typical ignorant
American.

Fred Bloggs wrote:


Chuck Harris wrote:
[snip]

You don't like their politics so you discredit the entire nation, its
people, culture, and contributions to civilization- typical ignorant
American.

I don't recall doing that. Perhaps you could point out where I did? Or
did it --just come to you-- ?

I find that not living in France, their politics has no real effect on me.
France is basically insignificant to most every place but France. If they
disappeared from the face of the Earth, it would be many many years before
most anyone in the United States even noticed the change...

I do notice, however, that you seem to be very free in downplaying the
many accomplishments of the American people [including the really big one
that explains why France, and the rest of Europe isn't called Germany].

Just what you accuse me of doing.

Fred Bloggs wrote:

Chuck Harris wrote:
[snip]

You don't like their politics so you discredit the entire nation, its
people, culture, and contributions to civilization- typical ignorant
American.

Blimey. You're beginning to sound like me !

You're quite right of course. Chuck's response was fairly typical although
somewhat less offensive than many of the regular s.e.d posters.

Graham

On 9/4/07 9:59 PM, in article , "Eeyore"
wrote:



Fred Bloggs wrote:

Michael A. Terrell wrote:
Fred Bloggs wrote:
Jim Thompson wrote:
Fred Bloggs wrote:

Fred, Why don't you move to France where you'll fit right in ?:-)

I think I will, I would enjoy living in France, at least there's some
semblance of culture there.


Be careful! A lot of that 'culture' is resistant to all known
antibiotics. On second thought: Enjoy yourself, while you last.

French medical science rivals the world, to this day they continue to
make great breakthroughs. Louis Pasteur is the Isaac Newton of modern
microbiology, a great genius.

French engineering is pretty good too.

Graham



French Fries are better.

On 9/4/07 11:25 PM, in article , "Eeyore"
wrote:



Chuck Harris wrote:

Yes, purebred people are important to any proper country... Europe has always
harbored that fantasy.

That's complete nonsense.

Americans are fabulously uneducated (about Europe too).

Graham



Only in your ignorance.

On 9/4/07 11:34 PM, in article , "Michael A.
Terrell" wrote:

Don Bowey wrote:

On 9/4/07 3:48 PM, in article ,
"Chuck Harris" wrote:

Don Bowey wrote:
On 9/4/07 10:47 AM, in article ,
"Chuck Harris" wrote:

Fred Bloggs wrote:

Michael A. Terrell wrote:
Fred Bloggs wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote:

On Tue, 04 Sep 2007 12:02:38 -0400, Fred Bloggs
wrote:

Fred, Why don't you move to France where you'll fit right in ?:-)
I think I will, I would enjoy living in France, at least there's some
semblance of culture there.


Be careful! A lot of that 'culture' is resistant to all known
antibiotics. On second thought: Enjoy yourself, while you last.


French medical science rivals the world, to this day they continue to
make great breakthroughs. Louis Pasteur is the Isaac Newton of modern
microbiology, a great genius.
Yeah, and the Arab world used to be the cradle of civilization.

Things change.

It still was. That didn't change

You really need to try and follow the thread.

Why, did I miss something important?


Start again at the part that reads "French medical...

I see I didn't miss something important.


FB uses Louis Pasteur as proof of France's current
greatness in medical science.

That is just like using the Arab world's centuries old expertise
in mathematics as proof of its current scholarly greatness.

True.

But the Arab world still was the cradle of civilization. What was can't be
taken away.



The Model T was the shining example of the production line
automobile, but haow many do you see on the road?


15,230,004.

Come on now. Do you have a real point

On 9/5/07 3:29 AM, in article , "Fred Bloggs"
wrote:



Chuck Harris wrote:
[snip]

You don't like their politics so you discredit the entire nation, its
people, culture, and contributions to civilization- typical ignorant
American.



Idiot donkey II.

On 9/5/07 3:54 AM, in article ,
"Chuck Harris" wrote:

Fred Bloggs wrote:


Chuck Harris wrote:
[snip]

You don't like their politics so you discredit the entire nation, its
people, culture, and contributions to civilization- typical ignorant
American.

I don't recall doing that. Perhaps you could point out where I did? Or
did it --just come to you-- ?

I find that not living in France, their politics has no real effect on me.
France is basically insignificant to most every place but France. If they
disappeared from the face of the Earth, it would be many many years before
most anyone in the United States even noticed the change...

The folks in Quebec might become noticeably nicer.


I do notice, however, that you seem to be very free in downplaying the
many accomplishments of the American people [including the really big one
that explains why France, and the rest of Europe isn't called Germany].

Just what you accuse me of doing.

Eeyore wrote:


Joerg wrote:


Eeyore wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote:



http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/6976084.stm

...Jim Thompson

However, Americans work more hours per year than workers in most other developed
economies. This is why, measured as value added per hour worked, Norway has the
highest labour productivity level (US$ 37.99), followed by the United States
(US$ 35.63) and France (US$ 35.08).

http://www.ilo.org/global/About_the_...3976/index.htm


Might that by any chance change once the oil and natural gas reserves of
Norway are tapped out? Value addition is fairly easy as long as you can
pump the goods out of the North Sea.


It just goes to show how worthless such studies can be. You'll also find that some (notably small) countries have very
high per-capita GDPs based on their provision of high value services like banking. That doesn't seem to have much to do
with 'productivity' in the traditonal sense to me.

That the French are on par with USA intruiged me though. It kind of kills the popular US myth about 'socialism' being
anti-business.


Socialism is anti-business. Also, they are definitely not on par WRT
services such as health care. If you get really sick over there your
chances of dying are quite a bit higher than in the US. Most certainly
so in the UK.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com

On Wed, 05 Sep 2007 15:29:34 GMT, Joerg
wrote:

Eeyore wrote:


Joerg wrote:


Eeyore wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote:



http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/6976084.stm

...Jim Thompson

However, Americans work more hours per year than workers in most other developed
economies. This is why, measured as value added per hour worked, Norway has the
highest labour productivity level (US$ 37.99), followed by the United States
(US$ 35.63) and France (US$ 35.08).

http://www.ilo.org/global/About_the_...3976/index.htm


Might that by any chance change once the oil and natural gas reserves of
Norway are tapped out? Value addition is fairly easy as long as you can
pump the goods out of the North Sea.


It just goes to show how worthless such studies can be. You'll also find that some (notably small) countries have very
high per-capita GDPs based on their provision of high value services like banking. That doesn't seem to have much to do
with 'productivity' in the traditonal sense to me.

That the French are on par with USA intruiged me though. It kind of kills the popular US myth about 'socialism' being
anti-business.


Socialism is anti-business. Also, they are definitely not on par WRT
services such as health care. If you get really sick over there your
chances of dying are quite a bit higher than in the US. Most certainly
so in the UK.

Do some of the european countries actually want old people to die?

John

Eeyore wrote:


Joerg wrote:


Fred Bloggs wrote:

Pasteur comes to mind because of the Pasteur Institute, you might get a
clue. They rival any US medical research institution in productivity and
contributions to the state of the knowledge. France possesses some of
the most brilliant people in the world, and these are French ethnics and
not imports. There is no "used to be" to it.

So, then, why is the cancer mortality rate higher there?


Why is overall US mortality higher than say, Iran ?
https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat.../2066rank.html


And the UK's even higher yet? Probably because Iranians live on
healthier food. So far I haven't met an Iranian immigrant who was
overweight at a young age. Those who came with their parents or were
born here, very different story. Same for other countries. Turkey isn't
on the list but folks from there told me of relatives that are around
100 and totally healthy, doing hardcore farming work (!), often despite
a bad habit of smoking. However, they never ate a single Snicker's bar
in their whole life because you couldn't buy them out in the country.

Long story short we've got to give up our cheeseburgers and you guys
have to give up the bangers ;-)


You might also ask what comparative incidence of cancer is. I doubt they're the
same.


Doesn't make much of a difference. You get a certain kind of cancer, you
treat it, then look at the long term survivals. Breast cancer is breast
cancer, no matter which country. Given a large enough number (not always
the case in some medical "studies") you'll have quite a reliable
indicator of how good the system works in a given country.

For example, one of the things I noticed when coming to the US: When
someone got cancer in Europe they had to fight hard to get the doc to
prescribe and the health insurers to pay for a PET scan. Here in the US
they usually send you to the next PET scan site instantly.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com

Don Bowey wrote:
On 9/5/07 3:29 AM, in article , "Fred Bloggs"
wrote:



Chuck Harris wrote:
[snip]

You don't like their politics so you discredit the entire nation, its
people, culture, and contributions to civilization- typical ignorant
American.




Idiot donkey II.


Your every post proves the point.

On Wed, 05 Sep 2007 08:46:04 -0700, John Larkin
wrote:

On Wed, 05 Sep 2007 15:29:34 GMT, Joerg
wrote:

Eeyore wrote:


Joerg wrote:


Eeyore wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote:



http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/6976084.stm

...Jim Thompson

However, Americans work more hours per year than workers in most other developed
economies. This is why, measured as value added per hour worked, Norway has the
highest labour productivity level (US$ 37.99), followed by the United States
(US$ 35.63) and France (US$ 35.08).

http://www.ilo.org/global/About_the_...3976/index.htm


Might that by any chance change once the oil and natural gas reserves of
Norway are tapped out? Value addition is fairly easy as long as you can
pump the goods out of the North Sea.


It just goes to show how worthless such studies can be. You'll also find that some (notably small) countries have very
high per-capita GDPs based on their provision of high value services like banking. That doesn't seem to have much to do
with 'productivity' in the traditonal sense to me.

That the French are on par with USA intruiged me though. It kind of kills the popular US myth about 'socialism' being
anti-business.


Socialism is anti-business. Also, they are definitely not on par WRT
services such as health care. If you get really sick over there your
chances of dying are quite a bit higher than in the US. Most certainly
so in the UK.

Do some of the european countries actually want old people to die?

John

Might be kinder than keeping them going drugged and/or in excruciating
pain the last few months or weeks with heroic measures that benefit
only the doctors.

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

Eeyore wrote:


Joerg wrote:


Fred Bloggs wrote:

Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Fred Bloggs wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote:

Fred Bloggs wrote:

Fred, Why don't you move to France where you'll fit right in ?:-)

I think I will, I would enjoy living in France, at least there's some
semblance of culture there.


Be careful! A lot of that 'culture' is resistant to all known
antibiotics. On second thought: Enjoy yourself, while you last.

French medical science rivals the world, to this day they continue to
make great breakthroughs. Louis Pasteur is the Isaac Newton of modern
microbiology, a great genius.

Then why is the cancer mortality (for detected and treated cases) higher
in Europe than in the US? Example:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/272078.stm

Scroll to "Health spending and cancer survival rates".


Cherry picking data like that proves nothing.


It's one story out of many and they all point in the same direction. I
just picked a UK source since you most likely won't believe US sources
anyhow. I think the BBC is a pretty credible source, ain't it?


Overall US mortality is higher than in Europe AIUI. Besides, 'Europe' now
includes a lot of former Waraw Pact countries that still have a lot of catching
up to do to get on par with the likes of Britain, France and Germany for
example.


Read it again. The former Warsaw Pact countries aren't in that list.

I haven't looked at overall mortality lately but most of that is due to
poor choices, not health care. For example, the number of people around
here who almost never cook and live on take-out dinners or fast food is
mind boggling. Very sad. Not only does it lead to cholesterol and
obesity issues but they often do not realize what it costs them financially.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com

Chuck Harris wrote:
Fred Bloggs wrote:



Chuck Harris wrote:
[snip]

You don't like their politics so you discredit the entire nation, its
people, culture, and contributions to civilization- typical ignorant
American.


I don't recall doing that. Perhaps you could point out where I did? Or
did it --just come to you-- ?

I find that not living in France, their politics has no real effect on me.
France is basically insignificant to most every place but France. If they
disappeared from the face of the Earth, it would be many many years before
most anyone in the United States even noticed the change...

I do notice, however, that you seem to be very free in downplaying the
many accomplishments of the American people [including the really big one
that explains why France, and the rest of Europe isn't called Germany].

Just what you accuse me of doing.

America's involvement in WWII was not exactly a selfless gift to the
rest of the world. FDR knew it was only a matter of time before we were
in the sights of Fascist regimes, and Japan had already attacked several
of our territories.

"Joerg" wrote in message
. net...
For example, the number of people around here who almost never cook and live
on take-out dinners or fast food is mind boggling. Very sad. Not only does
it lead to cholesterol and obesity issues but they often do not realize what
it costs them financially.

Ironically "healthy" food is often more expensive these days than "junk" food.
This has led to the poor having a higher incidence of obesity than those with
more money.

Not quite the same as eating out, but I think every college student realizes
pretty quickly that it's almost impossible to make for yourself the same food
that's provided in a $0.99-$1.99 frozen dinner from the grocery store... plus
of course you save the time of preparation.

(And of course there's ramen noodles for the ultimate in cheap college
foods... gotta save some money for beer, after all. :-) )

John Larkin wrote:

On Wed, 05 Sep 2007 15:29:34 GMT, Joerg
wrote:


Eeyore wrote:


Joerg wrote:



Eeyore wrote:


Jim Thompson wrote:




http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/6976084.stm

...Jim Thompson

However, Americans work more hours per year than workers in most other developed
economies. This is why, measured as value added per hour worked, Norway has the
highest labour productivity level (US$ 37.99), followed by the United States
(US$ 35.63) and France (US$ 35.08).

http://www.ilo.org/global/About_the_...3976/index.htm


Might that by any chance change once the oil and natural gas reserves of
Norway are tapped out? Value addition is fairly easy as long as you can
pump the goods out of the North Sea.


It just goes to show how worthless such studies can be. You'll also find that some (notably small) countries have very
high per-capita GDPs based on their provision of high value services like banking. That doesn't seem to have much to do
with 'productivity' in the traditonal sense to me.

That the French are on par with USA intruiged me though. It kind of kills the popular US myth about 'socialism' being
anti-business.


Socialism is anti-business. Also, they are definitely not on par WRT
services such as health care. If you get really sick over there your
chances of dying are quite a bit higher than in the US. Most certainly
so in the UK.


Do some of the european countries actually want old people to die?


I've heard some stories about certain procedures "not being done" on
people over certain age limits. That can be a real bummer if, like our
former neighbor in Germany, you are around 80 but have the fitness of a
60 year old. This guy is still an active hunter and can leave some
younger lads in the dust on longer hikes.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com